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(PennLive)   Even though you're from Niger, don't speak or understand a word of English, and are driving around central Pennsylvania with $151,000 in the car, the cops still can't take your money for no reason   (pennlive.com) divider line 133
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12830 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 May 2010 at 12:15 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-05-13 12:43:33 PM
albo: SushiJoe: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: There's no reason to be in Central Pennsylvania to begin with.

THIS

hey! it's one of the most liveable places in america. great place to raise a kid.


Sounds like lies spread by someone from York County.
 
2010-05-13 12:43:58 PM
Aidan: Wholeheartedly agree.

I've been hella tempted to go out and buy very small baggies (I have beads), just to stick it to the Man. Stupid, petty and silly, yes, but it'd make me feel better. :)

(Small baggies are drug paraphernalia!)


Good luck with that. I can't think of any way that won't backfire and blow up in your face.
 
2010-05-13 12:45:27 PM
I'm sure we've all heard the cool story/bro about the guy who was heading to a swap meet with $15,000 to buy a car, and redneck cops took his money.

This seizing of cash is a B.S. law that allows police to manipulate the entire citizenry because of a few drug dealers.
 
2010-05-13 12:46:09 PM
palelizard: Aidan: Wholeheartedly agree.

I've been hella tempted to go out and buy very small baggies (I have beads), just to stick it to the Man. Stupid, petty and silly, yes, but it'd make me feel better. :)

(Small baggies are drug paraphernalia!)

Good luck with that. I can't think of any way that won't backfire and blow up in your face.


I'm clean and boring. Now you're right... I'll probably STILL go down for the most heinous crimes ever conceived, but at least they'd have to work for it. :)
 
2010-05-13 12:47:10 PM
My favorite case was when a guy's $1000 bill was seized during a traffic stop-- when they gave the guy his money back, he got a check for $1000.
 
2010-05-13 12:50:29 PM
valvalis: That is seriously f'ed up.. I'm going to let you guys in on the deal here. These guys come from Niger and buy cars.. and ship them to their country. They use cash because they don't trust people and that's how they pay for things over there. I used to ship a lot of vehicles to that country.

This is outrageous and I wish there was some more I could do about it. Being able to seize assets and tell people they have to prove they are legal. I hate what is happening with these things.

I'm pretty conservative and usually think most of you libtards on fark are out of your mind. But we can all be anti police and anti anti-freedom laws together. Because this type of stuff makes me pretty angry.

There is a reason we are innocent until proven guilty. There is a reason we let guilty people walk free sometimes to be as sure as we are able innocent people don't have their rights infringed.

/cool story bro




Niger-lover
 
2010-05-13 12:55:45 PM
FTA: In Pennsylvania, cash seized by police in traffic stops and other criminal investigations is put into a fund and redistributed to law enforcement for equipment and other needs.

And that folks is the reason the money was taken.
 
2010-05-13 12:56:10 PM
Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Sounds like lies spread by someone from York County.

i prefer the far classier west shore
 
2010-05-13 12:56:36 PM
Aidan: (Small baggies are drug paraphernalia!)

Yep. I figure the $10 sub-gram-precision scale I have (various legit reasons) is the most illicit item in my house. Probably enough to get me busted if someone wanted to.
 
2010-05-13 12:56:43 PM
The Zen Philosopher Basho:


Niger-lover


you've been saving that one haven't you
 
2010-05-13 12:56:44 PM
kiyote: My favorite case was when a guy's $1000 bill was seized during a traffic stop-- when they gave the guy his money back, he got a check for $1000.

Wow...although he lost money, I'm astounded that he actually got anything back from the money-grubbing cops.
 
2010-05-13 12:57:48 PM
They came into the US in the last couple of months on visas.

It doesn't say it here, but I saw somewhere else that the penalty for non-compliance is seizure: Link (new window)

If you bring more than 10K into the US you need to declare it. If they declared it, they can prove it's theirs. If not, it's not their money anymore.
 
2010-05-13 12:58:13 PM
Our laws are so completely stacked now. It's all about "Making law enforcement's job easier". Screw that, it's a hard job for a reason and it shouldn't get any easier at the expense of innocent people.

I hate criminals and thugs on the street as much as anyone, but I hate criminals and thugs on the street in uniform even more.
 
2010-05-13 12:58:15 PM
jaimejaim: Vanetia: FTA: "Would the police take $150,000 from Donald Trump if he was stopped for speeding through the city? I doubt it," Burch said. "So why did they take it from these men?"

Because Trump can afford very good lawyers, and these men don't even speak English.

I don't think the analogy was referring to Trump's ability to hire expesive lawyers. Pretty sure this would not happen to Trump because he's WHITE.


Pennsylvania does not care about black brown people.

/cracks up every time she remembers Michael Meyer's face at that moment
 
2010-05-13 01:00:16 PM
When I was younger and dumber I used to feel like Jack McCoy was a badass on Law and Order when he'd pull RICO out and threaten a bunch of people.

Kick those uncooperateive badguys around.

Now? Not so much.
 
2010-05-13 01:00:48 PM
palelizard: I've been hella tempted to go out and buy very small baggies (I have beads), just to stick it to the Man. Stupid, petty and silly, yes, but it'd make me feel better. :)

(Small baggies are drug paraphernalia!)


I served on a jury last year and the cops had arrested a guy for possession of drug paraphernalia. He was in possession of baggies, scissors, twistie-ties, and a postal scale.

You'll also find these exact items in my kitchen as well.

Granted, he was busted before, and he probably was dealing, but no drugs were found. Around half of the jury was ready to convict him simply because he was arrested and the cops suspected him.

Another juror and I eventually convinced the 6 (and the 4 fence-sitters) that the police simply didn't prove their case. That, or they just wanted to agree to get an early weekend.
 
2010-05-13 01:01:24 PM
"Would the police take $150,000 from Donald Trump if he was stopped for speeding through the city? I doubt it," Burch said. "So why did they take it from these men?"

They took it because these men were not Donald Trump. They were non-English speaking foreigners which instantly makes them guilty of something.
 
2010-05-13 01:02:23 PM
Clever Neologism: This happened to me. Lost my Mercedes because they found drugs. It really is nigh-impossible to get it back, even if you are cleared of charges. Since it's a civil case, you don't have the same rights as in a criminal case.

My lawyer basically told me "just let it go man, because, it's gone." It would have cost more than the car was worth to *attempt* to get it back, with no guarantee of success.


Once they get your money or property, you've got a shiat chance of getting it back. If they can find any proof that there were drugs on your property, you won't get it back. Even if you are completely innocent and it was planted, they don't care.
 
2010-05-13 01:04:30 PM
I love these scenarios.

"That's a lot of cash sir, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to surrender it."

"Er, okay. But I haven't done anything wrong."

"As long as can afford a lawyer who can prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that there was no possible way in any alternate universe that you may have thought about using this money for illegal activity then you can have it back. Later."

2 years later:

"Okay, I've spent almost as much money as you took from me proving that I wasn't going to use my money for anything illegal and besides, I've never been charged with any crime ever in my entire life. Can I have my money back now?"

"No."
 
2010-05-13 01:04:45 PM
EZ Writer: /Oblig

Came here for this.
 
2010-05-13 01:06:49 PM
I can't imagine why people are so hesitant to cede more and more of their rights to the government for the promise that they will be taken care of...
 
2010-05-13 01:07:06 PM
Damn that pesky Constitution. I wish we were more like communist Russia.
 
2010-05-13 01:07:33 PM
Subby sounds upset that cops can't take people's money for no reason. Perhaps subby should move somewhere the police ARE allowed to do this.
 
2010-05-13 01:08:34 PM
StarshipPooper: People never heard of checks, heck even a bank/cashier check if you're paranoid about being ripped off with a bounced check.

our company was ripped off from cashiers checks before. apparently they where stolen ones from another company.
 
2010-05-13 01:09:22 PM
ClipJoint: el wharrrgarblo

We don't live in a free society. We live in a guilty until proven innocent society.

*GASP* Bu-bu-bu-but, what are all our proud troops doing then? I was repeatedly informed that I wasn't allowed to question our illegal invasions, errrrrrr I mean liberation operations because it made me a socialist who hates my freedoms in my free country!

Damn it all!


You sound like organic foods.
 
2010-05-13 01:10:02 PM
Coconice: When I was younger and dumber I used to feel like Jack McCoy was a badass on Law and Order when he'd pull RICO out and threaten a bunch of people.

I used to be a L&O fan. I can't watch it any more, since I started paying attention to what's going on with the legal system in this country.
 
2010-05-13 01:11:28 PM
GoldSpider: I can't imagine why people are so hesitant to cede more and more of their rights to the government for the promise that they will be taken care of...

yet
 
2010-05-13 01:12:13 PM
ne2d: filth: benlonghair: Um... yes they can. If you don't have receipts proving exactly where that money is from, the cops can take it and you have almost no recourse.

Where on earth did you get that idea?

Start here (new window)


I started there, and every article I found seemed to be about seizure in relation to a crime, not seizure in "Hey I see you have money, you've committed no crime, but I'm taking it because." Somebody have something more specific saying otherwise?
 
2010-05-13 01:12:37 PM
dig420: Subby sounds upset that cops can't take people's money for no reason. Perhaps subby should move somewhere the police ARE allowed to do this.

You think subby's from New Zealand or something? Cause here in 'Merica, cocksucking thieves, sadists, and moral crusaders only have to put on a badge to become heroes.
 
2010-05-13 01:15:53 PM
It seems many have missed the point: What what was the reasonable suspicion that allowed the cops to search the car in the first place?
 
2010-05-13 01:18:52 PM
EWreckedSean: I started there, and every article I found seemed to be about seizure in relation to a crime, not seizure in "Hey I see you have money, you've committed no crime, but I'm taking it because." Somebody have something more specific saying otherwise?

Try this. (new window) If you think you have to be charged with a crime to lose everything you've ever worked for, you're sadly mistaken.
 
2010-05-13 01:22:23 PM
sboyle1020: They were obviously about to set up a terrorist sleeper cell with that money.

But seriously, 3 men from Niger who can't speak English driving around central PA with $150,000 raises a red flag for me...


That's fine. But being a racist asshole doesn't give you the right to steal their money.
 
2010-05-13 01:23:35 PM
Carry a bunch of counterfeit cash on you, that way if the cops take it, the joke will be on them when they try to spend it.
 
2010-05-13 01:24:34 PM
Clever Neologism: This happened to me. Lost my Mercedes because they found drugs. It really is nigh-impossible to get it back, even if you are cleared of charges. Since it's a civil case, you don't have the same rights as in a criminal case.

My lawyer basically told me "just let it go man, because, it's gone." It would have cost more than the car was worth to *attempt* to get it back, with no guarantee of success.


I'll go ahead and pinpoint the exact point the system is failing in this paragraph. Not that they seized your car for having illegal substances. That, I'm sorry to say, is your own damn fool fault. If something similar happened to me, I'd be very sad, but I wouldn't blame the system. Nope, the system failed when you, a participant in the system, tried to compare these situations.

That's what's wrong. These men did not lose cash for having drugs. If they had, fark em. These men were provably guilty of absolutely nothing and are having to prove that being a foreigner isn't a crime. I don't care where they are from, what color they are, and if they are US Citizens or not. This should be a clear cut fourth amendment issue, and the fact the courts have let "our protection" from each trump our actual protections from the government is the real big frigging deal.

Don't let yourself get confused into thinking that just because what they were doing was UNWISE makes it in ANY POSSIBLE WAY acceptable for the government to legislate away your fourth amendment rights.

To be clear, in my opinion:
1) Three men, in car, with cash: WITHIN LEGAL RIGHTS
2) Police officers using civil seizure laws to claim large amounts of cash: MORALLY WRONG, BUT WITHIN LEGAL RIGHTS (unfortunately)
3) Congress passing this law: VIOLATION OF CONSTITUTION
4) The Court System upholding these laws: VIOLATION OF CONSTITUTION
5) Us, personally, for complaining on message boards instead of voting appropriately, obeying just laws, and using existing laws to get bad laws changed, and informing your congress person that you will be exercising your rights to do all these things: THE FAILURE OF THE SYSTEM

Remember, we're the failure in the system, because we're the part that's supposed to correct it when violations happen. We're the ultimate check and balance. You better believe that the people who value peace above actual security and fear change more than they value freedom are voting and talking to their representatives. If our viewpoint really is involved, and our viewpoint isn't enough to change public opinion, than we really are the minority and the system is working exactly the way it should, and we're obligated to convince others of our viewpoint.
 
2010-05-13 01:25:22 PM
albo: hey! it's one of the most liveable places in america. great place to raise a kid.

You apparently have some unique definition of "living" that humanity's never heard before.
 
2010-05-13 01:27:39 PM
ne2d: Yes they can.
 
2010-05-13 01:28:36 PM
benlonghair: Um... yes they can. If you don't have receipts proving exactly where that money is from, the cops can take it and you have almost no recourse.

Yeah, except to sue them and the department for everything they have under USC 1983, deprivation of rights under color of law. The officers have NO legal right to search a vehicle at a traffic stop without permission unless they see a crime taking place. Therefore the seizure is illegal and the officers can be personally sued. You take our cash, we take your house.
 
2010-05-13 01:30:19 PM
someguy945: It seems many have missed the point: What what was the reasonable suspicion that allowed the cops to search the car in the first place?

They were black...and foreigners. Isn't that reason enough?


/sarcasm
//YOU ARE FREE...TO DO AS WE TELL YOU.
 
2010-05-13 01:32:47 PM
arentol: benlonghair: Um... yes they can. If you don't have receipts proving exactly where that money is from, the cops can take it and you have almost no recourse.

Yeah, except to sue them and the department for everything they have under USC 1983, deprivation of rights under color of law. The officers have NO legal right to search a vehicle at a traffic stop without permission unless they see a crime taking place. Therefore the seizure is illegal and the officers can be personally sued. You take our cash, we take your house.


LOL you made pop come out of my nose.

You really believe that?

I am putting you in as my pick for troll of the year, I know it is early but I got a feeling about you. Good jorb.
 
2010-05-13 01:39:22 PM
l3randon: sboyle1020: They were obviously about to set up a terrorist sleeper cell with that money.

But seriously, 3 men from Niger who can't speak English driving around central PA with $150,000 raises a red flag for me...

That's fine. But being a racist asshole doesn't give you the right to steal their money.


This is their case in a nutshell.
 
2010-05-13 01:40:17 PM
I think I just threw up a little.
 
2010-05-13 01:41:14 PM
someguy945: It seems many have missed the point: What what was the reasonable suspicion that allowed the cops to search the car in the first place?

DWB
 
2010-05-13 01:42:17 PM
Vanetia: aspAddict: R.A.Danny: Oddly the cops only remember seizing $3,400.

Don't worry, these men will definitely get their $1,500.00 back soon.

As soon as they fill out the proper paperwork, their $700 will be returned.


For an $800 processing fee.
 
2010-05-13 01:44:48 PM
arentol

The officers have NO legal right to search a vehicle at a traffic stop without permission unless they see a crime taking place. Therefore the seizure is illegal and the officers can be personally sued.

But, no. There are exceptions to the 4th amendment that don't require anyone to "see a crime taking place." Just because the article from the almighty intarwebs doesn't mention specific factors that went into why the car was searched and money seized doesn't mean that they didn't exist.
 
2010-05-13 01:46:48 PM
Mr Guy: Clever Neologism: This happened to me. Lost my Mercedes because they found drugs. It really is nigh-impossible to get it back, even if you are cleared of charges. Since it's a civil case, you don't have the same rights as in a criminal case.

My lawyer basically told me "just let it go man, because, it's gone." It would have cost more than the car was worth to *attempt* to get it back, with no guarantee of success.

I'll go ahead and pinpoint the exact point the system is failing in this paragraph. Not that they seized your car for having illegal substances. That, I'm sorry to say, is your own damn fool fault. If something similar happened to me, I'd be very sad, but I wouldn't blame the system. Nope, the system failed when you, a participant in the system, tried to compare these situations.

That's what's wrong. These men did not lose cash for having drugs. If they had, fark em. These men were provably guilty of absolutely nothing and are having to prove that being a foreigner isn't a crime. I don't care where they are from, what color they are, and if they are US Citizens or not. This should be a clear cut fourth amendment issue, and the fact the courts have let "our protection" from each trump our actual protections from the government is the real big frigging deal.

Don't let yourself get confused into thinking that just because what they were doing was UNWISE makes it in ANY POSSIBLE WAY acceptable for the government to legislate away your fourth amendment rights.

To be clear, in my opinion:
1) Three men, in car, with cash: WITHIN LEGAL RIGHTS
2) Police officers using civil seizure laws to claim large amounts of cash: MORALLY WRONG, BUT WITHIN LEGAL RIGHTS (unfortunately)
3) Congress passing this law: VIOLATION OF CONSTITUTION
4) The Court System upholding these laws: VIOLATION OF CONSTITUTION
5) Us, personally, for complaining on message boards instead of voting appropriately, obeying just laws, and using existing laws to get bad laws changed, and informing your congress person that you will be exercising your rights to do all these things: THE FAILURE OF THE SYSTEM

Remember, we're the failure in the system, because we're the part that's supposed to correct it when violations happen. We're the ultimate check and balance. You better believe that the people who value peace above actual security and fear change more than they value freedom are voting and talking to their representatives. If our viewpoint really is involved, and our viewpoint isn't enough to change public opinion, than we really are the minority and the system is working exactly the way it should, and we're obligated to convince others of our viewpoint.


Well, the Supreme Court has decided that this sort of thing is constitutional. I strongly disagree with said ruling, but the are the only people who get to decide whether or not something is constitutional. The only major candidate who has ever really been against this sort of thing is Ron Paul, who finished like fifth in the Republican nomination for president last time-there's nobody to vote for who's against this.

The moral of this story is: Never carry more than $10k in cash. Use banks, wire transfers, cashier's checks, personal checks, prepaid debit cards, Western Union, casino chips, whatever. Of course, this almost always farks over foreigners who don't trust banks.
 
2010-05-13 01:50:23 PM
I never understood this law. Why can't you take your own money however much it is and transport it without the law getting involved?

Sure if you have proof that it is drug money it's all yours but cases like this where there is no reason to take these people's money are just ridiculous.

I doubt they were a sleeper cell, I'm fairly sure in order to be part of one you have to speak SOME english so you understand the people around you and blend in.
 
2010-05-13 01:51:20 PM
el wharrrgarblo: I heard a certain stretch of road that goes through Texas and Louisiana is especially bad about this. Cops pull you over if you have a nice car and just berate you and look for something to take. Some news station did a special on it once and fitted a nice car with mics and cameras and caught it all. Of course, nothing happened to the pig when it was all said and done.

There was a story about them on Fark last year. Apparently the cops and judge were booted out and were facing corruption and extortion charges, if I recall correctly.
 
2010-05-13 01:53:27 PM
Two non-athlete, non rapper Nigers (or is it Nigeriens?) carrying $150K+? Clearly some illegal activity took place.
 
2010-05-13 01:53:43 PM
Mr Guy: 2) Police officers using civil seizure laws to claim large amounts of cash: MORALLY WRONG, BUT WITHIN LEGAL RIGHTS (unfortunately)

Here is where you are wrong. They can only use those laws IF they find the money in a legal manner. An illegal search makes the seizure illegal.
 
2010-05-13 01:54:19 PM
feefifofimmy: Vanetia: aspAddict: R.A.Danny: Oddly the cops only remember seizing $3,400.

Don't worry, these men will definitely get their $1,500.00 back soon.

As soon as they fill out the proper paperwork, their $700 will be returned.

For an $800 processing fee.


with a 7% service tax of $56
 
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