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(NYPost)   Jets owner shocked fans won't pay $4,000 to $30,000 for fairly priced PSLs, which can be forfeited if the PSL owner does not purchase the 10-game season ticket for that seat every year, in his new stadium. Here come the TV blackouts   (nypost.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, season tickets, PSLs, tv blackouts, Gang Green, Woody Johnson, Jets, AFC Championship, black eye  
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2573 clicks; posted to Sports » on 13 May 2010 at 10:31 AM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-05-13 08:04:49 AM  
Look, I'm sure the new stadium is terrific. I'm sure, like John Hammond before them, they spared no expense to bring a state of the art game day experience to their fans. However, in all the years leading up to its construction, I never once heard a Giants or Jets fan complain about the condition of the old stadium. I never once heard anyone say, "Hey, I'd love to go to a game, but that place is a dump!" or "Yeah, I had a great time at the game, but the stadium is falling apart." So, fark 'em if they can't fill the place.
 
2010-05-13 08:32:14 AM  
I'd pay a little more for quality PSLs, ifyaknowwhatimean.

/Wait. What?
 
2010-05-13 09:02:47 AM  
Sunday Ticket gets more and more reasonable of a purchase, huh?
 
2010-05-13 09:15:22 AM  

JerseyTim: Look, I'm sure the new stadium is terrific. I'm sure, like John Hammond before them, they spared no expense to bring a state of the art game day experience to their fans. However, in all the years leading up to its construction, I never once heard a Giants or Jets fan complain about the condition of the old stadium. I never once heard anyone say, "Hey, I'd love to go to a game, but that place is a dump!" or "Yeah, I had a great time at the game, but the stadium is falling apart." So, fark 'em if they can't fill the place.


That's very true.

It wasn't the Nassau Coliseum for Christs sake.
 
2010-05-13 09:55:12 AM  

JerseyTim: Look, I'm sure the new stadium is terrific. I'm sure, like John Hammond before them, they spared no expense to bring a state of the art game day experience to their fans. However, in all the years leading up to its construction, I never once heard a Giants or Jets fan complain about the condition of the old stadium. I never once heard anyone say, "Hey, I'd love to go to a game, but that place is a dump!" or "Yeah, I had a great time at the game, but the stadium is falling apart." So, fark 'em if they can't fill the place.


I'd say that's a good point. I've never been to the Meadowlands, but on TV the place looks reasonably good (as opposed to the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum, or whatever the hell it's called these days, which looks like a hell hole on TV, Raiders fans notwithstanding). Replacing it now seems puzzling.
 
2010-05-13 10:37:20 AM  
How, in the age of HDTV, you think you can get away with charging someone $5k for the right to spend another $5k+ (at least) for tickets is beyond me. I get they're doing it, and people are paying, and I'm sure the Jets will end up selling them all, but come on. There's a limit.
 
2010-05-13 10:39:02 AM  

tnpir: Replacing it now seems puzzling.


it was done so they can switch to the hugely profitable PSL system. it is basically a money grab from fans who have been faithful for decades.. a little thank you for your support throughout the years i guess.

that is one of the reasons why i cannot give a shiat about sports anymore. its always been about the money, but jesus titty farking christ, enough is enough.
 
2010-05-13 10:40:26 AM  

JerseyTim: Look, I'm sure the new stadium is terrific. I'm sure, like John Hammond before them, they spared no expense to bring a state of the art game day experience to their fans. However, in all the years leading up to its construction, I never once heard a Giants or Jets fan complain about the condition of the old stadium. I never once heard anyone say, "Hey, I'd love to go to a game, but that place is a dump!" or "Yeah, I had a great time at the game, but the stadium is falling apart." So, fark 'em if they can't fill the place.


I think the women getting sexually assaulted at Jets games probably weren't thrilled with the security at the old stadium. Aside from that, though, you're right. Nobody needed, or even wanted a new stadium.

Though I will say that this explains why Woody Johnson and Rex Ryan have been out in public making asses of themselves for months.

"We're interesting! Come watch us play football!"
 
2010-05-13 10:42:26 AM  
i'm quite sure there are still enough people in new york that are stupid enough to pay it, so if he waits it out long enough it'll be fine.

/enough
 
2010-05-13 10:43:47 AM  
I tried to get tickets just for 1 regular game about 2 days after they went on sale. Needless to say preaty much all were sold out for home games but stubhub had a few thousand for sale at about 10X the price.
 
2010-05-13 10:49:22 AM  
I'm going to try and explain this to myself; someone correct me if I'm wrong.

1. You can buy season tickets for Jets home games. This will give you the same seat at ever home game. The season ticket (depending on location) will almost definitely be over $1000 (nothing new here).

2. A PSL is something you purchase IN ADDITION to the season ticket, which (this is hard) buys you the rights to buy the season ticket and doubles the cost of buying season tickets?

3. The Jets are confused why this isn't selling like $1 cheeseburgers?

Can this actually be correct or am I seriously misunderstanding PSLs?
 
2010-05-13 10:51:16 AM  

This Looks Fun: I'm going to try and explain this to myself; someone correct me if I'm wrong.

1. You can buy season tickets for Jets home games. This will give you the same seat at ever home game. The season ticket (depending on location) will almost definitely be over $1000 (nothing new here).

2. A PSL is something you purchase IN ADDITION to the season ticket, which (this is hard) buys you the rights to buy the season ticket and doubles the cost of buying season tickets?

3. The Jets are confused why this isn't selling like $1 cheeseburgers?

Can this actually be correct or am I seriously misunderstanding PSLs?


Thats kinda how i see it. Its been absurd from day one, although im nto sure they are the only team to do this. I had my name on a season ticket waiting list. The line was long. One things for sure, the line has cleared out now! Will never buy season tickets ever, unless i win the lottery.
 
2010-05-13 10:51:24 AM  

This Looks Fun: I'm going to try and explain this to myself; someone correct me if I'm wrong.

1. You can buy season tickets for Jets home games. This will give you the same seat at ever home game. The season ticket (depending on location) will almost definitely be over $1000 (nothing new here).

2. A PSL is something you purchase IN ADDITION to the season ticket, which (this is hard) buys you the rights to buy the season ticket and doubles the cost of buying season tickets?

3. The Jets are confused why this isn't selling like $1 cheeseburgers?

Can this actually be correct or am I seriously misunderstanding PSLs?


It's probably similar to the justification for most people who choose to buy Macs
 
2010-05-13 10:51:51 AM  

This Looks Fun: I'm going to try and explain this to myself; someone correct me if I'm wrong.

1. You can buy season tickets for Jets home games. This will give you the same seat at ever home game. The season ticket (depending on location) will almost definitely be over $1000 (nothing new here).

2. A PSL is something you purchase IN ADDITION to the season ticket, which (this is hard) buys you the rights to buy the season ticket and doubles the cost of buying season tickets?

3. The Jets are confused why this isn't selling like $1 cheeseburgers?

Can this actually be correct or am I seriously misunderstanding PSLs?


I'm confused too.

It sorta sounds like that you have to buy a PSL to then be able to get season tickets in certain parts of the stadium.
 
2010-05-13 10:52:38 AM  
Man sports consumers are dumb. I mean for what other product do you have to buy permission to buy the actual product?
 
2010-05-13 10:52:52 AM  
Well deserved punishment for being a Jets fan.
 
2010-05-13 10:53:17 AM  

kpottruff: This Looks Fun:It's probably similar to the justification for most people who choose to buy Macs


No; Macs are just expensive. This is like going to movie theater, buying a ticket, then being charged at the auditorium door for the right to sit down. You're stretching.
 
2010-05-13 10:54:34 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: Man sports consumers are dumb. I mean for what other product do you have to buy permission to buy the actual product?


Ferrari Enzo. To own one, you have to have previously owned a Ferrari.

/What's a rhetorical question?
 
2010-05-13 10:56:16 AM  

Bunnyhat: This Looks Fun: I'm going to try and explain this to myself; someone correct me if I'm wrong.

1. You can buy season tickets for Jets home games. This will give you the same seat at ever home game. The season ticket (depending on location) will almost definitely be over $1000 (nothing new here).

2. A PSL is something you purchase IN ADDITION to the season ticket, which (this is hard) buys you the rights to buy the season ticket and doubles the cost of buying season tickets?

3. The Jets are confused why this isn't selling like $1 cheeseburgers?

Can this actually be correct or am I seriously misunderstanding PSLs?

I'm confused too.

It sorta sounds like that you have to buy a PSL to then be able to get season tickets in certain parts of the stadium.


Exactly, a PSL is purcahsed before you can buy the tickets, but it is worse then that you have to buy a PSL to buy any ticket in certain parts of this stadium and you must buy all 10 season tickets or lose your PSL.

"Yo dog I heard you like rape, so I put some oral rape to go along with your anal rape."
 
2010-05-13 10:57:54 AM  

This Looks Fun: Slaves2Darkness: Man sports consumers are dumb. I mean for what other product do you have to buy permission to buy the actual product?

Ferrari Enzo. To own one, you have to have previously owned a Ferrari.

/What's a rhetorical question?


Not rhetorical, I did not know that, but then the likely hood of me ever owning a Ferrari is exactly the likely hood of me hitting a lotto jackpot of a 100 million dollars or more.
 
2010-05-13 10:59:13 AM  

indinoheat: I tried to get tickets just for 1 regular game about 2 days after they went on sale. Needless to say preaty much all were sold out for home games but stubhub had a few thousand for sale at about 10X the price.


Heh, that's the people who paid for the PSL's passing the savings on to you via Stubhub.
 
2010-05-13 11:00:15 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: This Looks Fun: Slaves2Darkness: Man sports consumers are dumb. I mean for what other product do you have to buy permission to buy the actual product?

Ferrari Enzo. To own one, you have to have previously owned a Ferrari.

/What's a rhetorical question?

Yeah, but the Enzo is such a ridiculous one-off that there's not point in bringing it to this talk :) I was being a smartass.

Not rhetorical, I did not know that, but then the likely hood of me ever owning a Ferrari is exactly the likely hood of me hitting a lotto jackpot of a 100 million dollars or more.

 
2010-05-13 11:01:22 AM  

This Looks Fun: Slaves2Darkness:


Failpost.

Yeah, but the Enzo is such a ridiculous one-off that there's not point in bringing it to this talk :) I was being a smartass.
 
2010-05-13 11:02:53 AM  
You have to get up pretty early in the Asshole Morning to come up with a pricing policy like this. Seriously, I want to know how that meeting went. Who had the titanium nards to suggest a "Let's make them pay us for the opportunity to pay us again!" pricing plan?

It's a completely artificial, bullshiat cost. It's not like they're just trying to cover administrative or processing costs here. They just made up an entirely new cost, made it absurdly high, and wagered that their irrational consumer base would pony up the money.

Anyone who buys a PSL should be barred from ever having money, ever again. Clearly, they will just spend it on the first dumbass thing they happen to trip across.
 
2010-05-13 11:07:05 AM  

This Looks Fun: Can this actually be correct or am I seriously misunderstanding PSLs?


The Jets made the upper level tickets available without PSLs, so you could purchase season tickets without the license.

However, in order to have the "right" to buy season tickets in the other areas, you need to own the PSL. I have no idea who came up with the concept, but it's ridiculous.
 
2010-05-13 11:09:58 AM  

vinnydoz007: Its been absurd from day one, although im not sure they are the only team to do this.


They got the idea from some other team (Ravens?). In theory, the PSLs go up in value so you can make money when you sell it but I wonder if that is really so. My brother goes to games with his father-in-law and I imagine his father-in-law will just give the PSLs to my brother and his sons when the time comes (and I think they took worse seats in the new place) to avoid estate taxes (I should have married the daughter of a Giants fan instead of a Portland Trailblazers fan).

Maybe money can be made for those selling Giants PSLS (they have something like a 20 year wait for tickets) down the road, but not the Jets.
 
2010-05-13 11:11:27 AM  
The one qualifier is that PSL's can be resold, and in almost every case to date have appreciated in value. That being said, they still suck. It's essentially ownership saying that they only care about fans who can lock in a multi-thousand dollar bond in order to have the right to buy tickets. In other words, if you aint rich, they don't want ya.
 
2010-05-13 11:14:01 AM  
what makes me laugh the most, is not the idea of the PSL but the owner whos like "its fairly priced". If your PSL was fairly priced you wouldnt have burned through a 30-40 year season ticket holder waiting list and still had 17000 of these left over.

if it was fairly priced they would have been bought up faster than you could process them.

When its UNFAIRLY priced is when you have to cold call beg people to buy your PSL turd package and then defend yourself to the press as you explain why your games are going to be blacked out.
 
2010-05-13 11:14:16 AM  
Um, this isn't just the Jets. The Giants have done it as well as the Yankees. HBO Inside sports did a whole story on it last year. They had on a few fans of the Giants and Yankees who not only didn't pay but were so disgusted they said they were no longer going to support their teams. The team reps said it all had to do with helping to finance the stadiums or some BS logic. I think Dallas did it too, with their new stadium, but I'm not sure about that.

/waiting for Snyder to figure out how to do this with his stadium already built
 
2010-05-13 11:15:10 AM  

Yanks_RSJ: However, in order to have the "right" to buy season tickets in the other areas, you need to own the PSL. I have no idea who came up with the concept, but it's ridiculous.


Let me Wiki it for everyone:

A personal seat license, or PSL, gives the holder the right to buy season tickets for a certain seat in a stadium. This holder can sell the seat license to someone else if they no longer wish to purchase season tickets.[1] However, if the seat license holder chooses not to sell the seat licenses and does not renew the season tickets, the holder forfeits the license back to the team. Most seat licenses are valid for as long as the team plays in the current venue.

Seat licenses have been given various names- the most common term in North America is Personal Seat License and in Europe is Debenture. The primary reason sporting venues offer PSLs is that the proceeds are used to help pay the debt incurred during the construction of the stadium or arena. Opponents of PSLs see this as another way to extract money from the sports fans.
[edit] Origin of Seat Licenses

There are varying accounts as to the origin of the personal seat license.

According to one account, the first personal seat license plan was developed in 1986 at Stanford University by legendary tennis coach Dick Gould.[2][3] Seeking financing for a new tennis stadium, Gould came up with the idea of selling the rights to seats, a licensing plan under which purchaser's name is engraved in the seat, and the purchaser owns the right to have first choice for tickets for any event held in the stadium. [3]

According to a second account, the permanent seat license was invented by a Columbus, Ohio architect, Rick Ohanian, in January 1987. Ohanian described his plan in a Letter to The Editor of the Columbus Dispatch, published on March 2, 1987, entitled "Ticketbond is Answer to Financing Proposed Facility".[4]

According to a third account, the permanent seat license was invented by Charlotte sports marketing agent, Max Muhleman, in 1993. Muhleman is credited as the founder of the first PSL's at Charlotte's then Carolinas Stadium.

Others cite similar programs that were in existence among many college fund raising activities prior to 1987. However, the early programs were tax-deductible donations to a scholarship fund, in which case the main "quid-pro-quo" was between the donation and the resultant deduction, not between the donation and the actual seating rights.

--End Wiki--
 
2010-05-13 11:15:30 AM  

damageddude: vinnydoz007: Its been absurd from day one, although im not sure they are the only team to do this.

They got the idea from some other team (Ravens?). In theory, the PSLs go up in value so you can make money when you sell it but I wonder if that is really so. My brother goes to games with his father-in-law and I imagine his father-in-law will just give the PSLs to my brother and his sons when the time comes (and I think they took worse seats in the new place) to avoid estate taxes (I should have married the daughter of a Giants fan instead of a Portland Trailblazers fan).

Maybe money can be made for those selling Giants PSLS (they have something like a 20 year wait for tickets) down the road, but not the Jets.


the Panther's ownership used the money raised by the sale of PSL to finance the construction of the stadium...no (or very little) public money was used
 
2010-05-13 11:16:58 AM  
Ok. Trying more.

When you buy the season ticket, you aren't guaranteed to get that ticket next year without the PSL, yes? So those uppser deckers may not get that seat next year?

I think the way the Redskins do it (local team) is your being a season ticket holder gives you the PSL and every year, the people who renew their ticket get the option to "move closer to the game" as other people give up their tickets. So, the closer to the action you are with a season ticket, the more likely you are to have have that ticket for 20+ years.

Am I way off?
 
2010-05-13 11:17:36 AM  

downtownkid: The one qualifier is that PSL's can be resold, and in almost every case to date have appreciated in value. That being said, they still suck. It's essentially ownership saying that they only care about fans who can lock in a multi-thousand dollar bond in order to have the right to buy tickets. In other words, if you aint rich, they don't want ya.


A buddy mine sold his Panthers Stadium PSL a couple of years ago and made about $3000 per ticket on the transaction.
 
2010-05-13 11:19:20 AM  

damageddude: Maybe money can be made for those selling Giants PSLS (they have something like a 20 year wait for tickets) down the road, but not the Jets.


The Giants burned through that list pretty quickly with this whole thing too. I've been on the waiting list for about 10 years, and until last season I never got one offer to buy a seat.

I've gotten an email about once a month since then for a chance to buy club seats.
 
2010-05-13 11:19:38 AM  

aden_nak: You have to get up pretty early in the Asshole Morning to come up with a pricing policy like this. Seriously, I want to know how that meeting went. Who had the titanium nards to suggest a "Let's make them pay us for the opportunity to pay us again!" pricing plan?

It's a completely artificial, bullshiat cost. It's not like they're just trying to cover administrative or processing costs here. They just made up an entirely new cost, made it absurdly high, and wagered that their irrational consumer base would pony up the money.

Anyone who buys a PSL should be barred from ever having money, or children ever again. Clearly, they will just spend it on the first dumbass thing they happen to trip across, and the moran gene in the family line needs to be snuffed out.



FTFY
 
2010-05-13 11:21:46 AM  

This Looks Fun: Ok. Trying more.

When you buy the season ticket, you aren't guaranteed to get that ticket next year without the PSL, yes? So those uppser deckers may not get that seat next year?

I think the way the Redskins do it (local team) is your being a season ticket holder gives you the PSL and every year, the people who renew their ticket get the option to "move closer to the game" as other people give up their tickets. So, the closer to the action you are with a season ticket, the more likely you are to have have that ticket for 20+ years.

Am I way off?


In my experience with partial season-ticket plans with the Yankees, the team always gives the previous year's owner a chance to renew before looking elsewhere to sell the tickets.
 
2010-05-13 11:22:07 AM  
The only way I could justify a PSL would be if you had the chance to buy tickets in your licence for any event at that stadium and not just football games before said event.
 
2010-05-13 11:22:48 AM  

downtownkid: The one qualifier is that PSL's can be resold...


According to the article the jets version of the PSL cannot be resold. And that any attempts to do so negates the original agreement and reverts the PSL back to the team.

what a farking joke.
 
2010-05-13 11:28:08 AM  
Ryan came from The Ravens. The Ravens have done this with season tickets since M&T opened up. FWIW, it's a one time fee and you can sell it, usually for a hefty profit.
 
2010-05-13 11:29:51 AM  
People can say what they want about the market bearing the price for tickets and blah blah blah...but I don't care. PSLs are a crock. Charge more for the tickets if you have to, but don't pull that shiat. I hope no one buys them, you know they eventually will.

I think Dan Snyder started the PSL system. Everyone else in the NFL either has already, or will eventually follow suit. I understand it's multi-billion dollar business, but it pisses me off how fast the cost of tickets has skyrocketed in recent years when you factor the cost of PSLs in.
 
2010-05-13 11:33:08 AM  

Gecko Gingrich: FWIW, it's a one time fee and you can sell it, usually for a hefty profit.


So, if I am a ticket holder with a PSL, if someone wants to "buy" my season tickets, I sell them the PSL and they get the opportunity to buy the season tickets? It makes a little sense, but it just sounds so shady.
 
2010-05-13 11:33:43 AM  

JerseyTim: Look, I'm sure the new stadium is terrific. I'm sure, like John Hammond before them, they spared no expense to bring a state of the art game day experience to their fans. However, in all the years leading up to its construction, I never once heard a Giants or Jets fan complain about the condition of the old stadium. I never once heard anyone say, "Hey, I'd love to go to a game, but that place is a dump!" or "Yeah, I had a great time at the game, but the stadium is falling apart." So, fark 'em if they can't fill the place.


Realize that plans for a new football stadium don't happen overnight. They broke ground in September of 2007...so planning/design began around a year (or more) before that. What was the economic climate in 2006ish? The NASDAQ was going up, DJIA as going up, housing prices were going up, everything was going up....the tech bubble was a thing of the past, unemployment wasn't an issue (anymore than usual), and the housing crash wasn't even a blip on the radar.

Let's face it, it you can afford an multimillion dollar apt in Manhattan, does $30K really matter? No. Especially not for people treating living in NY, driving a Mercedes, and eating $100 per person meals as a status symbol.

Unless your company goes under, the market goes into the toilet, and your $400,000 a year job disappears...then yeah...$30K is a lot to spend on the right to buy tickets.
 
2010-05-13 11:34:19 AM  

poisonedpawn78: According to the article the jets version of the PSL cannot be resold. And that any attempts to do so negates the original agreement and reverts the PSL back to the team.


Funk DAT!
 
2010-05-13 11:35:42 AM  

jayhawk88: How, in the age of HDTV, you think you can get away with charging someone $5k for the right to spend another $5k+ (at least) for tickets is beyond me.


Pretty much.

Plus football is one of the few sports that's better on TV than it is live.

Sports like baseball and hockey are much better watched in person. But football is best watched from the comfort of your living room.

Seems absurd to me to charge such a huge premium for an experience that's not as good as one you can get at home for free.
 
2010-05-13 11:36:41 AM  

This Looks Fun: So, if I am a ticket holder with a PSL, if someone wants to "buy" my season tickets, I sell them the PSL and they get the opportunity to buy the season tickets?


Yes.
 
2010-05-13 11:38:05 AM  

Doc Daneeka: Seems absurd to me to charge such a huge premium for an experience that's not as good as one you can get at home for free.


Is this an argument against married people visiting high dollar call girls?
 
2010-05-13 11:38:10 AM  

kpottruff: The only way I could justify a PSL would be if you had the chance to buy tickets in your licence for any event at that stadium and not just football games before said event.


That's what a lot of arenas with regular concerts do. You buy the PSL and then you get first dibs on that seat for any event in that arena, except for things specifically exempted (NCAA basketball tournament specifically comes to mind, you'll probably still get first dibs on tickets, but probably not your seats). In that case, most PSL's are term-based (10-20 years generally).
 
2010-05-13 11:38:24 AM  

Gecko Gingrich: This Looks Fun: So, if I am a ticket holder with a PSL, if someone wants to "buy" my season tickets, I sell them the PSL and they get the opportunity to buy the season tickets?

Yes.


Sigh... I mean I see how it can be explained, but I just feel like the PSL should be a part of the tickets. Oh well. I'd pay out the ass for Vikings tickets, so maybe it's good I don't live there.
 
2010-05-13 11:39:50 AM  

Gecko Gingrich: This Looks Fun: So, if I am a ticket holder with a PSL, if someone wants to "buy" my season tickets, I sell them the PSL and they get the opportunity to buy the season tickets?

Yes.


Except in this case. From TFA:

Even at a profit, any PSL resales this year would nullify the contract the buyer signed with the teams. Neither the Giants nor the Jets are allowing resale of PSLs before March 1, 2011, unless it is to an immediate family member.
 
2010-05-13 11:40:59 AM  

poisonedpawn78: downtownkid: The one qualifier is that PSL's can be resold...

According to the article the jets version of the PSL cannot be resold. And that any attempts to do so negates the original agreement and reverts the PSL back to the team.

what a farking joke.


Are you serious? That is farking obscene.
 
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