Congrats, you won the war! I'm sure all the pirates will give up and go back to paying $20 for a disc that has 2 songs they like on it.

asimplescribe: Congrats, you won the war! I'm sure all the pirates will give up and go back to paying $20 for a disc that has 2 songs they like on it.

2 songs? What have you been smoking? 1 song at best.

/Or half a song if it's Paul McCartney and Wings

I know one of those four people. She will be very disappointed but I have a feeling that her virus-ridden computer will breathe a sigh of relief.

Another of those four. Guess my new music sampling days are over.

ibanezdude: I know one of those four people. She will be very disappointed but I have a feeling that her virus-ridden computer will breathe a sigh of relief.

DAMN! I was gonna make my boat payment off that nitwit!

/seriously took it off a business computer this week, and all the viruses. Virii?

Where will I get all my viruses from now?

As an on-campus student IT worker, believe me when I say Limewire is still heavily used by people.

cyrus_hunter: asimplescribe: Congrats, you won the war! I'm sure all the pirates will give up and go back to paying $20 for a disc that has 2 songs they like on it.

2 songs? What have you been smoking? 1 song at best.

/Or half a song if it's Paul McCartney and Wings

Hey now. "Love Take Me Down To The Streets" is a great Wings song.

asimplescribe: Congrats, you won the war! I'm sure all the pirates will give up and go back to paying $20 for a disc that has 2 songs they like on it.

Seriously? You still use that old argument? I do not even know where to go to buy a disc since 2004 or so and certainly do not pay $20. An entire "album" is $9.99 max and a single song $.99. Maybe you should lose that one and stick to "The recording companies are too greedy and therefore it is OK to steal material."

Oh, look... Kimba Wood makes a reappearance.

"Wood was Bill Clinton's second unsuccessful nominee for attorney general in 1993. Like Clinton's previous nominee, Zoë Baird, Wood had hired an illegal alien as a nanny; although, unlike Baird, she had paid the required taxes on the employee and had broken no laws. Wood employed the undocumented immigrant at a time when it was legal to do so. The threat of a repetition of the same controversy ultimately led to a withdrawal of the nomination. A further burden was the disclosure that while she was a student in London, Wood had trained for five days as a Playboy bunny. Janet Reno was later nominated and confirmed for the post."

I bought a CD for my dad the other day. $16.99, Eagles of Death Metal. It so he could rip it onto his new iPod, and I'd feel cheap if I had just burned it for him or given him the material I had downloaded.

The problem with CDs is that artists don't make enough money off of the discs despite the cost. Record companies used to be big corporations that consolidated all of the artist services like promotions, distribution, touring support, etc. in addition to facilitating recording and creation of an album. Record companies are still ridiculously greedy, and now they're dealing with the fact that they refused to update their cash cow model to protect their longevity because they were making too much money at the time.

Now all of the services that record labels used to offer are being provided directly to the artist, which in turn gives them more money and gives them the ability to distribute their album for however much money they want. The album is not how most artists make their money. Most cash an artist gets is from publishing, touring, merchandise, etc.

LindLTaylor: asimplescribe: Congrats, you won the war! I'm sure all the pirates will give up and go back to paying $20 for a disc that has 2 songs they like on it.

Seriously? You still use that old argument? I do not even know where to go to buy a disc since 2004 or so and certainly do not pay $20. An entire "album" is $9.99 max and a single song $.99. Maybe you should lose that one and stick to "The recording companies are too greedy and therefore it is OK to steal material."

i'm not sure asimplescribe was trying to justify it or not, so i'm not going to remark on it, but the jist of what he said is true: this will not stop people from illegally downloading music.
also, really? you haven't knwon any stores that sell cds for 6 years? i know lots, and $20 for a cd is pretty much the going rate.

Old enough to know better: Another of those four. Guess my new music sampling days are over.

Well, there's always Bit Torrent. And blogs and direct file links. And Soulseek. And Usenet. And Emule/Edonkey. And probably 50 other ways I don't know about.

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Google "Youtube to Mp3 Converter"

I'll be damned. Free music from youtube. Convert to any audio format you want with "SUPER". Play on "VLC Media Player".

That is all.

If you can stand the quality of that, then more power to you.

Doggiewoggie: Oh, look... Kimba Wood makes a reappearance.

"Wood was Bill Clinton's second unsuccessful nominee for attorney general in 1993. Like Clinton's previous nominee, Zoë Baird, Wood had hired an illegal alien as a nanny; although, unlike Baird, she had paid the required taxes on the employee and had broken no laws. Wood employed the undocumented immigrant at a time when it was legal to do so. The threat of a repetition of the same controversy ultimately led to a withdrawal of the nomination. A further burden was the disclosure that while she was a student in London, Wood had trained for five days as a Playboy bunny. Janet Reno was later nominated and confirmed for the post."

Are those the lyrics to some new Rage tune?

But where will I hear Dave Letterman getting a hilarious prank call?

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: snake_beater:

If you can stand the quality of that, then more power to you.

That's why I convert formats. (FLAC) for audio.

Go ahead and convert it to 32bit 192kHz PCM if you want... the source still sucks.

cyrus_hunter: asimplescribe: Congrats, you won the war! I'm sure all the pirates will give up and go back to paying $20 for a disc that has 2 songs they like on it.

2 songs? What have you been smoking? 1 song at best.

/Or half a song if it's Paul McCartney and Wings
Wouldn't that be Paul McCartney and a Wing?

asimplescribe: Congrats, you won the war! I'm sure all the pirates will give up and go back to paying $20 for a disc that has 2 songs they like on it.

Game over man, game over! I mean what am I going to do now that Limewire is dead? I could just use another gnutella client I suppose or well anything else really.

/Yes, CD's cost around $20
// Thread over in 1 btw.

In before PIRACY == THEFT!!!!eleven!!

To all of you saying Piracy == Theft, here's some real world analogies for you.

Pirating a meal at a restraunt: Making it at home, with your own ingredients.

Stealing a meal at a restraunt: Walk in, order, eat, then sneak out without paying.

Pirating a car: Taking the blueprint, making your own with your own materials.

Stealing a car: Sneak onto the lot at night, hotwire car, drive away.

Pirating a TV: Finding the blueprint, making your own TV with your own materials.

Stealing a TV: Stick TV in shopping car, run like a madman out front door, throw in back seat, drive away fast.

Pirating a movie: Click torrent, wait a few minutes/hours, copy appears on your hard drive.

Stealing a movie: Stuff DVD case under a loose coat, walk out front door of store.

Digital movie steal: Hack into someone's machine, use cut/paste to completely remove the file from their machine.

Noticing a difference?

In order to STEAL a digital file, I'd have to hack into the machine, then use cut/paste to REMOVE the files

entirely. However, copying the files and leaving the originals in place would be COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT, which is a

different crime.

And yes, this is a proper analogy... copying a file is simply the process of using my electrons and hard disk to

re-create a magnetic signature on the disk. So what if the machine makes it dirt easy, there's still nothing LOST

from the person. However, they have the right to be paid for the use of their copyrighted material, making it a

crime even though nothing was taken from them. Similarly, if I copy the blueprints of a car without the company's

permission and make a new car from them, then they will likely press charges of copyright infingement.

The key difference here is deprivation of use. When I steal a TV, I deprive someone of it's use. When I copy a

file, I deprive nobody of the original file's use. However, if I steal the file (cut/paste it) then I have deprived

someone of it's use, and have committed theft.

No, this doesn't make it right or legal. However, this would be like punching someone in the face and being accused

of murder. It's a different crime entirely, and is WRONG to mix up the two.

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: snake_beater:

If you can stand the quality of that, then more power to you.

That's why I convert formats. (FLAC) for audio.

I came here to say something about piracy, but then that guy said he converted YouTube (!) rips (!) to FLAC (...!)

I think we need to sue that guy. I'm not sure what for, but something. that's just not right to do to audio, that's like three levels of rape.

also, who in the fark is seeing/buying 20 dollar CDs? my digital collection is worth more than most people's income, so I'm not in the dark there, but when I buy a CD (brand new, sealed) it sure as fark isn't 20 dollars and it's not like it fell off the back of the truck, I'm buying it direct from distributors. maybe if people knew how to shop there would be that many more CD sales. but then again CDs can take a boat to fark-off island...but you know what I'm saying.

Lanadapter: xellas84:

Yep. Got tired of seeing the same damn arguments every time. So I've got a copypasta of my take on it saved.

xellas84: Lanadapter: xellas84:

Yep. Got tired of seeing the same damn arguments every time. So I've got a copypasta of my take on it saved.

Agreed that stealing != copyright infringement, but those analogies are bad...

xellas84: In before PIRACY == THEFT!!!!eleven!!

To all of you saying Piracy == Theft

... if you're in before anyone's said it, then who the fark are you talking to?

xellas84: In before PIRACY == THEFT!!!!eleven!!

To all of you saying Piracy == Theft, here's some real world analogies for you.

Pirating a meal at a restraunt: Making it at home, with your own ingredients.

Pirating a car: Taking the blueprint, making your own with your own materials.



These analogies don't make sense...when pirating a movie/album/game, one doesn't take the script/lyrics/code and try to re-create it. They leave that to bad production companies...

I guess I understand your idea, but it isn't really driving your point home...

xellas84: Pirating a meal at a restraunt: Making it at home, with your own ingredients.

That analogy would work if you're pirating the Unreal Engine and making a game from scratch, or recording software and recording yourself singing the song.

However you want to justify it someone else put the work into it and is selling it to hopefully profit from that work and you're taking it without paying for it.

Ronikka: xellas84: In before PIRACY == THEFT!!!!eleven!!

To all of you saying Piracy == Theft, here's some real world analogies for you.

Pirating a meal at a restraunt: Making it at home, with your own ingredients.

Pirating a car: Taking the blueprint, making your own with your own materials.



These analogies don't make sense...when pirating a movie/album/game, one doesn't take the script/lyrics/code and try to re-create it. They leave that to bad production companies...

I guess I understand your idea, but it isn't really driving your point home...

You essentially do. You just leave the computer to recreate the code on your hard drive, instead of sitting up and typing it manually.

But I guess I'll bite. If that's a bad analogy, what would be a better one? I'm not above tweaking this so it makes more sense.

xellas84: In before PIRACY == THEFT!!!!eleven!!

To all of you saying Piracy == Theft, here's some real world analogies for you.

Pirating a meal at a restraunt: Making it at home, with your own ingredients.

Stealing a meal at a restraunt: Walk in, order, eat, then sneak out without paying.

Pirating a car: Taking the blueprint, making your own with your own materials.

Stealing a car: Sneak onto the lot at night, hotwire car, drive away.

etc.

by these analogies,
pirating music: hearing a song, then getting a piano/guitar/whatever and playing it yourself.

theft includes acquiring something without exchange of money/services/etc. without the consent of the person that owns it. they're selling it and they are the sole provider, you acquire it without paying for it and without their okay, it's theft.

i'm not condemning those who do it. i do it, but i don't kid myself into thinking it's not theft.

Lumbar Puncture: xellas84: Pirating a meal at a restraunt: Making it at home, with your own ingredients.

That analogy would work if you're pirating the Unreal Engine and making a game from scratch, or recording software and recording yourself singing the song.

However you want to justify it someone else put the work into it and is selling it to hopefully profit from that work and you're taking it without paying for it.

Please go ahead and read the BOTTOM of the post. In fact, I'll post it for you:

"No, this doesn't make it right or legal. However, this would be like punching someone in the face and being accused of murder. It's a different crime entirely, and is WRONG to mix up the two."

ajt167: xellas84: In before PIRACY == THEFT!!!!eleven!!

To all of you saying Piracy == Theft, here's some real world analogies for you.

Pirating a meal at a restraunt: Making it at home, with your own ingredients.

Stealing a meal at a restraunt: Walk in, order, eat, then sneak out without paying.

Pirating a car: Taking the blueprint, making your own with your own materials.

Stealing a car: Sneak onto the lot at night, hotwire car, drive away.

etc.

by these analogies,
pirating music: hearing a song, then getting a piano/guitar/whatever and playing it yourself.

theft includes acquiring something without exchange of money/services/etc. without the consent of the person that owns it. they're selling it and they are the sole provider, you acquire it without paying for it and without their okay, it's theft.

i'm not condemning those who do it. i do it, but i don't kid myself into thinking it's not theft.

That's just it, it's NOT theft. It's copyright infringement. They are two entirely unrelated crimes. That doesn't make CI any LESS illegal, but I'm sick and tired of hearing pirates called thieves, when they are copyright infringers.

xellas84: But I guess I'll bite. If that's a bad analogy, what would be a better one?

Why do you need them? You started off with "To all of you saying Piracy == Theft, here's some real world analogies for you," but no one's said "Piracy == Theft."

What's your next newsflash?

"Hot-linking to an image isn't theft, but it is using someone else's bandwidth without remunerating them for your own unjust enrichment."

xellas84: I'm sick and tired of hearing pirates called thieves, when they are copyright infringers.

Why? Do you have the same outrage when someone who commits reckless homicide is called a murderer?

xellas84: I'm sick and tired of hearing pirates called thieves, when they are copyright infringers.

What exactly do you think pirates meant when they called themselves pirates?

It's a legitimate distinction... Arguably, theft deprives the rightful owner of the stolen object. Theft can also apply to theft of services, and the provider has been deprived of the time and effort used to provide said services, absent remuneration.
Infringement of intellectual property rights is not like theft in that sense: it's more like trespass, in that you have violated the person's exclusionary right over their property.
An appropriate comparison would be that theft is stealing your car, while IP infringement is using your car against your express permission while you're sleeping, but returning it afterwards. You aren't deprived of the car, but you're deprived of its exclusivity.
Or another example would be that you provide parking in your multi-car driveway during events at a nearby stadium for $25 each, and some jackass parks his car there without paying you and then invites lots more people to park there for free. He hasn't stolen from you, but he's removed any meaningful ability for you to collect your $25 from those people, and has destroyed the value of your exclusivity.

That said, it's a legitimate distinction of interest only to pedantic IP nerds like me.

xellas84: That's just it, it's NOT theft. It's copyright infringement. They are two entirely unrelated crimes. That doesn't make CI any LESS illegal, but I'm sick and tired of hearing pirates called thieves, when they are copyright infringers.

to be honest, i'm not sure what it would legally fall under, and it may not be an "either/or" thing. i'm no lawyer and i haven't looked into it too much, and it seems like you have, so i'll assume you know more than i do about it.

but as far as what i said
theft includes acquiring something without exchange of money/services/etc. without the consent of the person that owns it. they're selling it and they are the sole provider, you acquire it without paying for it and without their okay
to me, this seems like a reasonable definition of theft, and it also seems like what you do when you illegally download a song. where am i going wrong?

Theaetetus: Arguably, theft deprives the rightful owner of the stolen object.

Counterpoint: Identity theft does not deprive the rightful owner of their identity, but deprives them of the exclusive ability to control said identity. But it's still theft.

LindLTaylor: asimplescribe: Congrats, you won the war! I'm sure all the pirates will give up and go back to paying $20 for a disc that has 2 songs they like on it.

Seriously? You still use that old argument? I do not even know where to go to buy a disc since 2004 or so and certainly do not pay $20. An entire "album" is $9.99 max and a single song $.99. Maybe you should lose that one and stick to "The recording companies are too greedy and therefore it is OK to steal material."

That is for a single-format electronic copy, many of which have DRM. That's how I do it- though only Amazon and Napster as they're free of DRM- but CDs haven't changed. Even looking at a band I like, Off Kilter, I maybe can get a list of 15 off the 4 CDs. That's 15 songs, and the CDs are $15.95 each.

Sword and Shield: That is for a single-format electronic copy, many of which have DRM

Who still sells in a DRM'd format? Other than the Zune Store.

Architecture Of Aggression: I came here to say something about piracy, but then that guy said he converted YouTube (!) rips (!) to FLAC (...!)

I think we need to sue that guy. I'm not sure what for, but something. that's just not right to do to audio, that's like three levels of rape.

I'm not sure that he's raping audio as much as he's just raping his available HD space.

I mean of course it would be greatretarded to store a 60Mb file of a 3 min song originally ripped as (and still sounds like) a 32kbps mp3.

FROSTWIRE!!


Open Source and Free.

Theaetetus: Theaetetus: Arguably, theft deprives the rightful owner of the stolen object.

Counterpoint: Identity theft does not deprive the rightful owner of their identity, but deprives them of the exclusive ability to control said identity. But it's still theft.

A couple of things:

#1 LindLTaylor at 2010-05-13 08:35:59 AM used the term steal so the theft == pirating analogies are most certainly relevant so you can stuff your rick romero images.

#2 All of your examples still deprive people of their property and pirating digital media doesn't. If someone steals your car while you are sleeping you are still deprived of the use of your car. If someone takes one of your parking spots then you are still deprived of that parking spot and can not continue to sell it to someone else. If someone steals your identity then they are charging shiat on your credit cards thereby depriving you of your money. Songs are copied digitally. If you had a machine that allowed you to create a copy of a car then you'd be on the right track. If that "thief" used his machine to copy your car and then drove off in that separate car then that would be similar. You would still have your original car. If you download a song that in no way shape or form prevents the record company from selling it, copying it, or adapting it. The only way you can even try to justify it as theft is to say that by downloading the song instead of buying it you stole profits from the record company from future sales. The problem with this argument is that there is no indication that you ever would have bought the song in the first place and you can't steal something that doesn't exist. You can't steal a future sale that may or may not have ever occured. That's why it's not theft. If it's theft then why have no pirates been charged with theft? I'm not saying it's right but I think it goes a lot deeper than people care to venture. Personally, I'd like to know why you are allowed to sell your copyrights and why it seems that copyrights never seem to expire. O wait, I know why. It's because record companies lobby elected officials to get the laws changed to allow them to do this shiat. The copyright was invented to allow artists to make enough money to live off of. It certainly wasn't intended to keep their work under lock and key by huge multinational corporations for an indefinite period of time.

Theaetetus: Theaetetus: Arguably, theft deprives the rightful owner of the stolen object.

Counterpoint: Identity theft does not deprive the rightful owner of their identity, but deprives them of the exclusive ability to control said identity. But it's still theft.

Identity fraud. In fact, just fraud. "Identity theft" is just another media fabrication that is misused. The only way identity theft would be true would be in Twilight Zone situations where you wake up and the world magically doesn't know who you are and claims someone else is you, and that the person who is now you caused it in the first place.

Copyright infringement is a specific type of theft.

xellas84: But I guess I'll bite. If that's a bad analogy, what would be a better one? I'm not above tweaking this so it makes more sense.

Theft of services (new window). You don't need an analogy. The law already has the idea covered.