So that's the terminology they use now, "Legally Justified". It's not that I'm a cop hater, but a D.A. would charge a suspect with anything under the sun and let the courts decide the innocence or guilt of a defendant. The same should happen with the police. Just a simple charge, and let the courts work as intended.

ZAZ: The two suspects also suffered gunshot wounds and were charged with murder.

This is a stupid application of the felony murder doctrine and I don't think it is allowed where I live.

That must be a mistake.

It must be a mistake. Or at least it must be a stunt.

How the hell could that ever stick?
The felony murder doctrine (as shown on CSI) scares the daylights out of me in the first place.

In all fairness, she wasn't aiming for him, but firing a weapon and applying lipstick isn't as easy as you would imagine.

namatad: I will start this off right.
Time to start shooting the cops before they shoot you.
CLEARLY if they can shoot you cause they fear for their life, you can shoot them.

Lisner [the cop] kept hearing shots and feared for her life

/good thing only the cops have the guns.

It's the "It's coming right for us" rule of society.

How exactly does one just happen to walk into a gun battle?

SCOTUS has ruled that police are not required to protect the public.
Police can now shoot and kill innocent bystanders because the individual matched the description of a alleged criminal. And you cannot protect yourself. Pay your taxes, make political contributions and keep quiet. Has anyone seen the Constitution, lately?

You guys really like living in a police state, don't you?

I can't wait to see the upcoming Fark headlines when the people in this thread start shooting at the police because they "fear for their safety."

I have a feeling they won't be around to let us know how that worked out for them.

fark the police.

Cops are pussies in that sense. What we need to do is train them to be more mission-oriented and not fear for their own lives so much.

They should be 100 times as ready to take a bullet than to put one in the wrong person.

For this great service, we pay them OUT THE ASS and let them have all the donuts and gay sex they want to without ridicule.

oblig.

skinink: So that's the terminology they use now, "Legally Justified". It's not that I'm a cop hater, but a D.A. would charge a suspect with anything under the sun and let the courts decide the innocence or guilt of a defendant. The same should happen with the police. Just a simple charge, and let the courts work as intended.

No, once you start questioning the actions of one cop, any authority figure's actions can be questioned. This is why we all need to stick together on this. Who cares if citizens are dieing, we need to protect ourselves. Children. War on drugs.

Seth'n'Spectrum: ZAZ: The two suspects also suffered gunshot wounds and were charged with murder.

This is a stupid application of the felony murder doctrine and I don't think it is allowed where I live.

That must be a mistake.

It must be a mistake. Or at least it must be a stunt.

How the hell could that ever stick?
The felony murder doctrine (as shown on CSI) scares the daylights out of me in the first place.

If you start a gun battle with the police, and someone gets in the crossfire and is killed, you are responsible for the gun battle starting. If these thugs had not tried to kill a police officer, this young man would still be alive.

Is it too much to ask for a fair application of the law?

If Joe Average citizen was attempting to stop a crime in progress with his firearm and ended up shooting the wrong person, it would take Johnny Cochran and a dream team of lawyers to keep him out of prison.

Also, the article didn't mention if the two actual suspects killed anyone.
...Or is it because someone died at the cops hands during their crime that they get charged with murder instead of officer triggerhappy?

Rule #1: When you hear gun shots, get down!

It sounds like the officer did not just shoot an innocent bystander. She also deepened the Gene Pool.

jerky on the veldt: Cops are pussies in that sense.

FIFY

Never met a "brave" cop. I've heard legends of occasional heroic actions by individuals, but by and large, what I hear is about cops who sit on their butts eating donuts, sleeping in their patrol cars, pulling over people for going three MPH over the limit, etc.., etc., etc...

DA's don't "rule" anything. They aren't neutral arbiters. They're advocates on one side.

Maybe cops should carry grenades.

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: If you start a gun battle with the police, and someone gets in the crossfire and is killed, you are responsible for the gun battle starting. If these thugs had not tried to kill a police officer, this young man would still be alive.

I just looked up the wikipedia page on the felony murder rule and it still sounds absurd to me, and I'm glad its gone in England and Wales. I can see the logic behind it and why it might be a useful deterrent, but it just feels like going too far for my liking.

I think the keywords here are "California DA rules...". That's kind of like saying "I think That...". The "DA" stands for "Distric Attorney". They can not make laws, only the legislative body can make laws, a DA can "rule" what ever they like, but when taken to a court the laws legislated by the city, state and finally constitution take presidence. The DA is just another crack head, talking out of his ass.

I lament the condition of Civic Education.
If you want to take control, educate yourself, become aware of what has happened, what can happen, what is happening and what will happen.

The report says Lisner asked Balandran to show his hands, but he did not. Lisner kept hearing shots and feared for her life, and she shot him in the chest

I don't suppose the fact that (according to her) there were ongoing gunshots directly behind the guy may have made it a weeeeee-bit difficult for him to hear what she was saying.

zymosan

How exactly does one just happen to walk into a gun battle?


I suppose gun battles are like Mordor in that sense.

so if they can do this, why do people get so uppity when the military blows up the wrong building?

NightOwl2255: This slope appears to be slippery.

That's Racist.

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm:
"If you start a gun battle with the police, and someone gets in the crossfire and is killed, you are responsible for the gun battle starting."

Where in the article does it say the suspects fired first? It is just as likely that the police showed up and started the shoot out.

Seth'n'Spectrum: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: If you start a gun battle with the police, and someone gets in the crossfire and is killed, you are responsible for the gun battle starting. If these thugs had not tried to kill a police officer, this young man would still be alive.

I just looked up the wikipedia page on the felony murder rule and it still sounds absurd to me, and I'm glad its gone in England and Wales. I can see the logic behind it and why it might be a useful deterrent, but it just feels like going too far for my liking.

if I remember correctly, in one of the earliest cases where it applied it was mainly a result of prosecutors beating up on an inexperienced public defender. "Justice" was a bit rigged in that case...

It was another CA case: suspect was surrendering to police and on the ground with his hands out, when his accomplice shot and killed a cop. The guy who surrendered was convicted of murder under the felony murder doctrine.

The doctrine stinks; it creates all the wrong incentives to surrender to police, and has no place in a criminal justice system that seeks to punish intent, rather than consequences.

It was obviously a mistake. A horrible mistake, but can you think of a better system where this wouldn't happen?

jankyboy: I'll hang back until a JUDGE rules on this.

No! THis is the interwebs. Argue with people about it and call them names.

Cromar: The police systems of Britain, France, Australia, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Japan, Taiwan, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Iceland, Canada, and Poland.

How is it a bad rule?

Felony Murder: If you commit a felony and someone dies during it, and that person would not be dead had you not committed that feolony -- even if you were not the direct cause of the death -- you are responsible.

You rob a bank and the teller dies of a heart attack? Your fault.
You get in a shootout with the cops and a bystander gets killed? Your fault.

Heron: Cromar: The police systems of Britain, France, Australia, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Japan, Taiwan, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Iceland, Canada, and Poland.

...any other democratic country in the World.

/FTFY

ZAZ: A judge called it homicide. The DA called it justified. The DA's decision is final because judges can't prosecute.

And you're leaving out the second half of the event.

The family then sued the city for wrongful death.

Let me guess, the you guy who got killed in cold blood by the cop ... was he black?

/Armed civilian police are a bad idea

in Philadelphia, cops are required to shoot at least three bystanders in all occasions, even a basic traffic stop...

Heron: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm:
"If you start a gun battle with the police, and someone gets in the crossfire and is killed, you are responsible for the gun battle starting."

Where in the article does it say the suspects fired first? It is just as likely that the police showed up and started the shoot out.

They would be guilty of felony murder regardless. If they did not fire the first shot they still would have been commtting a felony to begin with to get the cop to start shooting. And even if they did not fire first, they still returned fire instead of surrendering.

Cromar: It was obviously a mistake. A horrible mistake, but can you think of a better system where this wouldn't happen?

Yes. Give all cops wiffle bats instead of guns.

DreamWeaver: You rob a bank and the teller dies of a heart attack? Your fault.

That is absolutely bullshiat. Robbery isn't the same as murder, one can intend to do the former but not the latter. I know that's how the criminal justice system works, but I'm not judging its legality, I'm judging its morality.

It'd be a real shame if somebody killed Claudia Lisner in her home because they feared she might kill them for no reason.

And then her partner because they were wearing the same uniform.