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(ESPN)   The Red Sox have surrendered a total of 24 runs to the Yankees in the last two games. That's some mighty fine run prevention, Lou   (sports.espn.go.com) divider line 42
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399 clicks; posted to Sports » on 09 May 2010 at 2:47 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-05-08 11:38:56 PM
They're setting sabremetrics back twenty years
 
2010-05-09 12:27:07 AM
I don't understand what happened to Boston's pitching. I thought it was an awesome rotation, WTF happened?
 
2010-05-09 02:48:34 AM
mainstreet62: I don't understand what happened to Boston's pitching. I thought it was an awesome rotation, WTF happened?

Beckett doesn't have it anymore, Wakefield, being a knuckleballer is always hit-or-miss, Lester is struggling, Dice-K is Dice-K, Bucholz is good, but still trying to find his form. Fark it, start Okajima.
 
2010-05-09 03:05:40 AM
Ooh, does this mean one of these two can drop down the standings in a semi-sustained fashion and give the rest of us a break from this stupid rivalry?
 
2010-05-09 03:08:20 AM
SameShadeAsConcrete: mainstreet62: I don't understand what happened to Boston's pitching. I thought it was an awesome rotation, WTF happened?

Beckett doesn't have it anymore, Wakefield, being a knuckleballer is always hit-or-miss, Lester is struggling, Dice-K is Dice-K, Bucholz is good, but still trying to find his form. Fark it, start Okajima.

[Allow me to ignore the natural inclination to avoid talking about things I am not knowledgeable about and give my review of the Red Sox starting rotation without any reasonable idea of what I am saying]


Lester last three starts
5.2 IP Earned Runs: 0 W
7.0 IP Earned Runs: 0 W
8.0 IP Earned Runs: 1 ND

Daisuke Matsuzaka
Games Started: 2

Clay Buchholz
3.82 ERA

John Lackey exists
ERA 3.89
GS 6

Tim Wakefield
Has "had it" once in 4 starts, 6 appearances
What? two more appearances than starts you say? Yes, he was moved to the pen 11 days ago.

Josh Beckett doesn't have it anymore
Age: 29
Excerpt from Boston Globe's Amelie Benjamin's article here (new window)
"Not that the Sox are panicking over what they'll get from their starters. They've been through this before, with rough Aprils from Jon Lester and from Beckett, who recorded a 7.22 ERA over 28 2/3 innings in April last season.
This season? That same 7.22 ERA through his first five starts."


No, the rotation hasn't been very good.

Yes, the Red Sox have set themselves back.

But, teams go through slumps throughout a six month season. The Red Sox are slumping early. It isn't unreasonable to think the Yankees, Rays, or any other team will experience a similar stretch in the ensuing months. It is just magnified because it's Boston, and it's early.

/Boston fan
//objective
///not panicking
////slashies and stop making stupid posts
 
2010-05-09 03:15:18 AM
jdamaral: John Lackey exists
ERA 3.89
GS 6


As an Angels fan, I get how Lackey can be frustrating. The man has tremendous upside, once you get past his propensity to give up the big inning from time to time. Check that, quite often. He's still a very good pitcher who just happened to be perfectly positioned in the free agent market. But I'd still rather have him as an ace in the Angels bullpen over anybody we have now. When he's on, he's amazing.
 
2010-05-09 03:32:52 AM
Silly submitter, Lou coaches the CUBS!
 
2010-05-09 03:33:27 AM
Manages.

Whatever.

/not sober
 
2010-05-09 05:23:07 AM
I didn't know there was that much Cognitive Dissonance in all of Red Sox Nation for the kind of post jdamaral made...

The Rays are stupid good and the Yanks are not far behind and are winning even with injuries starting to mount. The Red Sox are behind Toronto.

No matter how good the pitching gets for Boston, every time a person gets to first base it may as well be a triple since nobody on the Sox can throw out a base stealer. Add in a middle of the lineup that is positively underwhelming and a defense that gives away more runs than prevents them and it's a recipe for failure even in a weak division and the Sox are in one of baseball's strongest divisions and are in a huge hole.

I am reasonably sure that the Sox will play some credible baseball in stretches this year but I would doubt very much that they will be able to sustain it long enough to make up ground on pssibly the two best teams in the league.
 
2010-05-09 06:31:09 AM
puffy999: Silly submitter, Lou coaches the CUBS!

They didn't manage much run prevention last night, either.

/this one most definitely belongs to the reds
 
2010-05-09 07:36:19 AM
Dear Boston,

chicksinthehuddle.com

Sincerely,

The Civilized World
 
2010-05-09 07:55:09 AM
Look at the 2007 season, Yankees had so many injuries it wasn't funny, Mike Mussina and Chien-Ming Wang were out with injuries forcing Carl Pavano to start, yeah how great is that for opening day?

Yankees suffered a seven-game losing streak after sweeping the Cleveland Indians at Yankee Stadium and ended April with a record of 9-14, good for last place in the AL East and 6½ games behind the Red Sox.

Stats are rarely off, Ortiz is a .280 hitter and will pull in 25 homers, same for Victor whose hitting .299 life time - things will come around.

/Yankees fan who won't cut Boston any slack
//At least boston fans arn't annoying enough to bring cowbells to stadium and ring them for 4 hours.
 
2010-05-09 08:32:48 AM
jdamaral: ///not panicking

Why not? You're in a division with 2 better teams and have made no substantial upgrades at any positions.

Also, you guys are masters at turning singles into doubles which puts more runners in scoring position. You guys are screwed. It was time to start panicking after the Rays series.
 
2010-05-09 08:34:34 AM
The Red Sox have only played 31 games out of 162 (damn the baseball season is way too long). I can't even begin to worry about these issues tanking the whole season. For some reason I'm expecting Theo to make another blockbuster trade like he did with Nomar, and get rid of a veteran player for batting or pitching help.
 
2010-05-09 08:37:50 AM
All this means is the Red Sox will severely overpay for A-Gone, They will do it as early as possible and give their best prospects.
 
2010-05-09 09:34:28 AM
While I firmly believe its going to be a lost season, the World Champion Yankees didnt exactly get off to a great start last year.
 
2010-05-09 10:00:10 AM
Won't it be interesting when all four Boston area teams, which have all been pretty good over the last 5-10 years, come down off that curve and all suck for 10-15 years?
 
2010-05-09 10:01:30 AM
Bigtimmy: While I firmly believe its going to be a lost season, the World Champion Yankees didnt exactly get off to a great start last year.

This is true.
However, with the 2009 Yankees, the pieces were there, they just weren't clicking at first. Tex being allergic to April, A-Rod's injury/secret suspension, CC/AJ/Swisher adjusting to the Yankees (and the Yankees adjusting to them).

With the 2010 Red Sox, I can't really say the same thing. Something genuinely seems missing.
 
2010-05-09 10:22:30 AM
macadamnut: Won't it be interesting when all four Boston area teams, which have all been pretty good over the last 5-10 years, come down off that curve and all suck for 10-15 years?

eh, I think this is the Bruins time to shine for the next 5-10 years, with the rest of the area teams "struggling" to find their groove.

I put struggling in "" because I feel that all 3 of the other teams are guilty of trying to be too cute, especially when it comes to the Sox and Patriots.

They seem to want to constantly find the best value amongst a heaping pile of borderline platoon players. The thing is, with both teams, it seemed to work most when they werent really pressing for it so much. It seemed to come more naturally.

In other words, both teams need to just spend the damn money while maintaining some sanity/intelligence on how they spend it, instead of trying to find the next big reason(in the form of some random flavor of the season statistical trend that will turn out to be,ironically, a giant waste of money) not to spend the big bucks.

Or, being too cute.

The only time value works is if you are Wal-Mart.
 
2010-05-09 10:23:14 AM
2010 Red Sox: 15-16 through 31 games, 1-4 against the Yankees.

2009 Yankees: 15-16 through 31 games, 0-5 against the Red Sox. (new window)
And they lost Game 32 to drop to 15-17, 6.5 games out of first.

It's the second week of May. Let's not panic just yet.
Besides, who cares about the Red Sox when the Bruins are playing so well?
 
2010-05-09 10:23:55 AM
macadamnut: Won't it be interesting when all four Boston area teams, which have all been pretty good over the last 5-10 years, come down off that curve and all suck for 10-15 years?

It's funny when it happens to your town, too.
 
2010-05-09 10:24:11 AM
I love how the focus with this team going into this year was pitching and "run prevention". According to mlb.com, there are only 2 teams that have given up more runs this season than the Red Sox. Run prevention, indeed.
 
2010-05-09 10:33:37 AM
CoochDog:
It's the second week of May. Let's not panic just yet.
Besides, who cares about the Red Sox when the Bruins are playing so well?


Actually I was thinking that as well. I'm more concerned about the Celtics' problems, and excited about the Bruins probably making it to the Conference Finals for the first time since '92. The Red Sox this early in the season just isn't that big of a concern.

 
2010-05-09 10:46:29 AM
The Bestest: Something genuinely seems missing.

swamigp.files.wordpress.com

And don't try to blame this bad start on Merloni.
 
2010-05-09 10:56:20 AM
skinink: CoochDog:
It's the second week of May. Let's not panic just yet.
Besides, who cares about the Red Sox when the Bruins are playing so well?

Actually I was thinking that as well. I'm more concerned about the Celtics' problems, and excited about the Bruins probably making it to the Conference Finals for the first time since '92. The Red Sox this early in the season just isn't that big of a concern.


Seriously. I know Boston is a baseball town, but this is like worrying about the Celtics' slow start when the Red Sox are in the playoffs - or the Patriots are playing anyone in the division.

Anyway, out manager doesn't wear braces. So there's that
 
2010-05-09 11:00:09 AM
HulkHands: Anyway, out our manager doesn't wear braces. So there's that

/coffee
//okay, okay, here are my papers Arizona
 
2010-05-09 11:02:04 AM
CoochDog: Besides, who cares about the Red Sox when the Bruins are playing so well?
 
2010-05-09 11:07:57 AM
AnnoyingKidNextDoor: Dear Boston,



Sincerely,

The Civilized World


Buwahaha?
0-4 vs Rays
Neimann
 
2010-05-09 11:15:08 AM
skinink: The Red Sox have only played 31 games out of 162 (damn the baseball season is way too long). I can't even begin to worry about these issues tanking the whole season. For some reason I'm expecting Theo to make another blockbuster trade like he did with Nomar, and get rid of a veteran player for batting or pitching help.

Nomar had some value left when he was traded in 2004. Which current member of the Red Sox lineup will bring anything in return?

It may surprise you to know that nobody out there wants David Ortiz, Mike Lowell, JD Drew or Jason Varitek. As I see it, the only veteran on the Red Sox who they could conceivably trade that would bring something useful in return would be Papelbon.
 
2010-05-09 11:24:27 AM
Yanks_RSJ: skinink: The Red Sox have only played 31 games out of 162 (damn the baseball season is way too long). I can't even begin to worry about these issues tanking the whole season. For some reason I'm expecting Theo to make another blockbuster trade like he did with Nomar, and get rid of a veteran player for batting or pitching help.

Nomar had some value left when he was traded in 2004. Which current member of the Red Sox lineup will bring anything in return?

It may surprise you to know that nobody out there wants David Ortiz, Mike Lowell, JD Drew or Jason Varitek. As I see it, the only veteran on the Red Sox who they could conceivably trade that would bring something useful in return would be Papelbon.


Youk? Pedroia? Not that I want to see them go, far from it.
 
2010-05-09 11:28:24 AM
Yanks_RSJ: skinink: The Red Sox have only played 31 games out of 162 (damn the baseball season is way too long). I can't even begin to worry about these issues tanking the whole season. For some reason I'm expecting Theo to make another blockbuster trade like he did with Nomar, and get rid of a veteran player for batting or pitching help.

Nomar had some value left when he was traded in 2004. Which current member of the Red Sox lineup will bring anything in return?

It may surprise you to know that nobody out there wants David Ortiz, Mike Lowell, JD Drew or Jason Varitek. As I see it, the only veteran on the Red Sox who they could conceivably trade that would bring something useful in return would be Papelbon.


Well then, let me be the first to say:

*booming announcer voice*

Now in, closing for your Boston Red Sox, Number 51, DANNIIIIELLLLL BAAAAAAAAAARDDDDDDD!!!!


Thats about how I feel about Papelbomb.
 
2010-05-09 11:29:21 AM
CoochDog: 2010 Red Sox: 15-16 through 31 games, 1-4 against the Yankees.

2009 Yankees: 15-16 through 31 games, 0-5 against the Red Sox. (new window)
And they lost Game 32 to drop to 15-17, 6.5 games out of first.


While true, the Yankees played their first 28 games without Alex Rodriguez. Cody Ransom and Angel Berroa were playing 3rd base.

When A-Rod came back, the Yankees went 90-44. So, all you guys need is to add one of the best hitters of all time to your lineup.

The better comparison would be the 2007 Yankees, who were also 15-16 after 31 games, 6 games out of first, and ended up winning 94 games and getting the wild card spot. Of course, that team wasn't in the same division with two monsters, the Rays were still in the cellar then.
 
2010-05-09 11:34:33 AM
John Buck 41: Yanks_RSJ: skinink: The Red Sox have only played 31 games out of 162 (damn the baseball season is way too long). I can't even begin to worry about these issues tanking the whole season. For some reason I'm expecting Theo to make another blockbuster trade like he did with Nomar, and get rid of a veteran player for batting or pitching help.

Nomar had some value left when he was traded in 2004. Which current member of the Red Sox lineup will bring anything in return?

It may surprise you to know that nobody out there wants David Ortiz, Mike Lowell, JD Drew or Jason Varitek. As I see it, the only veteran on the Red Sox who they could conceivably trade that would bring something useful in return would be Papelbon.

Youk? Pedroia? Not that I want to see them go, far from it.


I didn't include them, because you could never get equal value in return for them anyway. Plus, they aren't the problem with the Red Sox, those are two core guys they're building around.

The Nomar trade worked because he was only 30 and until 2004 had been relatively healthy and very productive, but had become expendable in Boston because of his perceived attitude, at least the one Lucchino planted in the papers to Dan Shaughnessy.

Any current offensive player on the Red Sox is too old/expensive to have any value to another team.
 
2010-05-09 11:39:55 AM
Yanks_RSJ: John Buck 41: Yanks_RSJ: skinink: The Red Sox have only played 31 games out of 162 (damn the baseball season is way too long). I can't even begin to worry about these issues tanking the whole season. For some reason I'm expecting Theo to make another blockbuster trade like he did with Nomar, and get rid of a veteran player for batting or pitching help.

Nomar had some value left when he was traded in 2004. Which current member of the Red Sox lineup will bring anything in return?

It may surprise you to know that nobody out there wants David Ortiz, Mike Lowell, JD Drew or Jason Varitek. As I see it, the only veteran on the Red Sox who they could conceivably trade that would bring something useful in return would be Papelbon.

Youk? Pedroia? Not that I want to see them go, far from it.

I didn't include them, because you could never get equal value in return for them anyway. Plus, they aren't the problem with the Red Sox, those are two core guys they're building around.

The Nomar trade worked because he was only 30 and until 2004 had been relatively healthy and very productive, but had become expendable in Boston because of his perceived attitude, at least the one Lucchino planted in the papers to Dan Shaughnessy.

Any current offensive player on the Red Sox is too old/expensive to have any value to another team.


I see what you're saying, but the same argument might apply to Papelbon as well. Bard isn't ready to be a FT closer, so Pap is the core of the bullpen. Plus he's generally regarded as a head case, isn't he?

It may only be the first week of May, but this team is in trouble.
 
2010-05-09 12:33:05 PM
Yanks_RSJ: CoochDog: 2010 Red Sox: 15-16 through 31 games, 1-4 against the Yankees.

2009 Yankees: 15-16 through 31 games, 0-5 against the Red Sox. (new window)
And they lost Game 32 to drop to 15-17, 6.5 games out of first.

While true, the Yankees played their first 28 games without Alex Rodriguez. Cody Ransom and Angel Berroa were playing 3rd base.

When A-Rod came back, the Yankees went 90-44. So, all you guys need is to add one of the best hitters of all time to your lineup.

The better comparison would be the 2007 Yankees, who were also 15-16 after 31 games, 6 games out of first, and ended up winning 94 games and getting the wild card spot. Of course, that team wasn't in the same division with two monsters, the Rays were still in the cellar then.


That's a good point. The Sox certainly don't have anybody of A-Rod's offensive caliber on their team, but they have a number of injured and/or underperforming guys. Ellsbury could come back and play well, Martinez could wake up... if they could get more persistent performance from 2-3 different guys, it could maybe have a similar effect. Probably not that extreme, but who knows.

That, or Ortiz could start hitting like it's 2007 again. But that's probably not gonna happen.
 
2010-05-09 12:47:36 PM
macadamnut: Won't it be interesting when all four Boston area teams, which have all been pretty good over the last 5-10 years, come down off that curve and all suck for 10-15 years?



To be fair, the Red Sox and the Pats have been good for that long. Lately the Celtics were real good for a couple of seasons since Garnett and Allen came to the team, and the Bruins are only going to get better. They have done well the last two seasons and get the second pick in the draft this year, and Toronto's first next year as well. All the other teams in town are declining.

Soon the Bruins are going to be the best team in town, and every chick will be wearing a pink spoked-B hat. ::shudders::

/Bruins fan first and foremost
//Likes the other three
///Theo is a farking tool
////Stay-off the Bruins bandwagon pink-hats.
 
2010-05-09 01:24:28 PM
You know who else was 15-16 at this point last season?

/it's not hitler, but he would have loved their management.
 
2010-05-09 04:26:12 PM
Yanks_RSJ: skinink: The Red Sox have only played 31 games out of 162 (damn the baseball season is way too long). I can't even begin to worry about these issues tanking the whole season. For some reason I'm expecting Theo to make another blockbuster trade like he did with Nomar, and get rid of a veteran player for batting or pitching help.

Nomar had some value left when he was traded in 2004. Which current member of the Red Sox lineup will bring anything in return?

It may surprise you to know that nobody out there wants David Ortiz, Mike Lowell, JD Drew or Jason Varitek. As I see it, the only veteran on the Red Sox who they could conceivably trade that would bring something useful in return would be Papelbon.


Well, when you become the GM of all the other teams the Red Sox might trade someone to, then I'll take you at your word and as you see it. But who knows which players are valuable to which teams,or if Boston decides to make a package deal with draft picks or however they would work it out.
 
2010-05-09 05:52:17 PM
skinink: Yanks_RSJ: skinink: The Red Sox have only played 31 games out of 162 (damn the baseball season is way too long). I can't even begin to worry about these issues tanking the whole season. For some reason I'm expecting Theo to make another blockbuster trade like he did with Nomar, and get rid of a veteran player for batting or pitching help.

Nomar had some value left when he was traded in 2004. Which current member of the Red Sox lineup will bring anything in return?

It may surprise you to know that nobody out there wants David Ortiz, Mike Lowell, JD Drew or Jason Varitek. As I see it, the only veteran on the Red Sox who they could conceivably trade that would bring something useful in return would be Papelbon.

Well, when you become the GM of all the other teams the Red Sox might trade someone to, then I'll take you at your word and as you see it. But who knows which players are valuable to which teams,or if Boston decides to make a package deal with draft picks or however they would work it out.


I don't even know why I'm responding, since you're not even aware that draft picks are not allowed to be traded in baseball.

And I stand by my original assessment.

JD Drew is 35, and has another year (at $14 million) on his contract. Nobody is going to give up anything of value for him.

Jason Varitek is 38, and ANY team in the league could have had him after the 2008 season for only $5 million. Nobody wanted him then, and nobody wants him now.

David Ortiz is 34 (maybe older), can't play the field, and is rapidly losing his bat speed. He's making $12.5 million this year. Nobody is going to trade anything of value for him. If the Sox manage to move him, it'll be a salary dump.

Mike Lowell is 36, can't run or play the field, and is making $12 million this year. See above for the story on his trade value.

Instead of doubting my opinion, why don't you tell me which member of this year's Red Sox might have some legitimate value to a contender in either league, and why another team would part with big league talent for overpaid guys well on the downside of their careers?
 
2010-05-09 06:04:46 PM
Lowell does have trade value, albeit small, as a DH to an AL team...maybe the D-Rays would take a look at him.

I didnt realize Drew was 35 and the day he leaves can not come soon enough.
 
2010-05-09 07:53:45 PM
Yanks_RSJ: When A-Rod came back, the Yankees went 90-44. So, all you guys need is to add one of the best hitters of all time to your lineup.adjust Ortiz's 'roids.
 
2010-05-10 11:44:29 AM
This year's Mother's Day Miracle - the Sox took one out of three in the series!
 
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