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(WebMonkey)   Who actually needs Flash anyway?   (webmonkey.com) divider line 177
    More: Interesting, Internet Explorer, www, open standards, Silverlight, mobile web, Adobe Flash, codec, tipping points  
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8165 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 May 2010 at 10:05 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-05-05 06:27:25 AM
manginamonologues.files.wordpress.com

/hotlinked
 
2010-05-05 06:33:46 AM
RustNeverSleeps: /hotlinked

LOL!

Anyway, the link looked like a summary of other articles I've seen lately. Nothing new.
 
2010-05-05 06:39:27 AM
Came for a Flash (AH AH!!!) Gordon reference.
 
2010-05-05 07:19:38 AM
I don't need it. However, I also don't need other people to tell me what I do and don't need, I can install it or not on my own.
 
2010-05-05 08:46:16 AM
i2.photobucket.com
 
2010-05-05 08:52:17 AM
But how will we play Dice Wars?
 
2010-05-05 08:53:01 AM
Their floors are stick-E-Mart
 
2010-05-05 08:55:35 AM
Youtube?
 
2010-05-05 08:58:26 AM
Aquaman does.
 
2010-05-05 09:09:24 AM
Just relaunched Safari after a Flash-caused crash.
 
2010-05-05 09:16:02 AM
Looks like a lot of trouble just to prove a point. Kind of like how hard it is for iPhones to watch youtube videos.
 
2010-05-05 09:19:07 AM
The people who produce the content won't switch away from Flash until HTML5 is supported on nearly all browsers and they figure out how to use it. So if Internet Explorer supports HTML5, but not Flash Adobe is doomed, but it will probably support both.
 
2010-05-05 09:29:33 AM
Control_this: Looks like a lot of trouble just to prove a point. Kind of like how hard it is for iPhones to watch youtube videos.

Uh, there's a built-in app on the iPhone that lets you view YouTube videos just fine. Your link appears to be for jailbroken phones.
 
2010-05-05 09:46:39 AM
This guy is giving Apple way too much credit for the implementation of HTML5. This would be like giving Microsoft credit for the invention of Blu-Ray. After all, Windows computers are compatible with Blu-Ray readers. So Microsoft must have dethroned HD-DVD.
 
2010-05-05 09:58:32 AM
EatHam: I don't need it. However, I also don't need other people to tell me what I do and don't need, I can install it or not on my own.

I totally agree, if I purchase a device, I should be able to do with that device whatever I want. What Apple (et al) are doing is the hardware equivalent of DRM.
 
2010-05-05 10:03:05 AM
Meh. As long as I can use FlashBlock and NoScript, the web will be a much nicer place.
 
2010-05-05 10:10:24 AM
60% of all video on the web is encoded in H.264, including much of the video that is displayed in a Flash player. Any site that already uses H.264 could play their videos in any WebKit based browser without sending them a Flash player.

GreenAdder: This guy is giving Apple way too much credit for the implementation of HTML5

Apple and Mozilla teamed up to start WHATWG, the organization behind the HTML5 spec. They've built industry consensus with many other members of WHATWG, but Apple certainly was heavily involved in the development of the HTML5 spec, which is a big part of the reason that WebKit is the most HTML5-friendly browser out there.
 
2010-05-05 10:10:30 AM
cheezcomixed.files.wordpress.com
 
2010-05-05 10:15:58 AM
I've disabled flash on every browser I use and the only things I'm missing are website splash screens and advertisements. Everything else works just fine.
 
2010-05-05 10:16:00 AM
tototototo: But how will we play Dice Wars?

What, not KDice? Who wants to play Dice Wars against the computer...
 
2010-05-05 10:22:34 AM
This guy and his Ipad
Link (new window)
/I seriously don't know if the video is a joke or what
 
2010-05-05 10:23:46 AM
Flab: Youtube?

The sites I stream sports because I am too cheap to get cable all use flash. Go Blackhawks!
 
2010-05-05 10:25:05 AM
I won't even consider buying it if it isn't open source.
 
2010-05-05 10:25:38 AM
Ironically the prototype of the 4th generation iPhone shows the camera will have a flash (which is quite a major oversight on the current model).

I was talking to some folks this past weekend in Starbucks next to an Apple store (in order to make this the biggest cliche possible). I was saying that while Jobs is an innovator he is consistently jumping the gun and having to backtrack. First was the iMacs with no floppy drives in the late 90s when floppy was still a viable storage medium. Then the Macbook Air with no CD drive.

Is Flash going to be replaced by HTML 5? Eventually. But people should have the choice to run it if they want. The smartest move Apple has made in the last 10 years was to use Intel processors and support people running Windows via BootCamp. Forcing people and content providers to code their websites especially for the iPad/iPhone is a move in the wrong direction. Apple products should "just work" and frankly Hulu, Facebook and other Flash heavy sites just don't.
 
2010-05-05 10:32:02 AM
drjekel_mrhyde: This guy and his Ipad
Link (new window)
/I seriously don't know if the video is a joke or what


That guy is why I can't stand YouTube. Bunch of self important asses talking their asses off like anyone cares what they say. Stop buying stuff and filming yourself opening it. That's lame.
 
2010-05-05 10:34:08 AM
Right now I can download 10min flash porn movies, so the question is, will I be able to do something similar with HTML5?
 
2010-05-05 10:37:41 AM
Cyborg77: But people should have the choice to run it if they want.

It's a nice idea. And let's be honest: Apple isn't doing this for anyone's benefit but their own. They're the mustache twirling villain in this case.

But: by creating a large section of devices that eschew Flash in favor of HTML5, Apple is pushing the adoption of the WHATWG standards for HTML5, giving this open standards group more power to control web standards, creating a robust secondary authority that covers things that the W3C hasn't. This benefits Apple, Mozilla, and eventually web developers, at the cost of Adobe and a temporary infringement on the side of the users.

I'm not saying the ends justify the means, but these are good ends. They're just a side effect of Apple's real ends, of course: making more money.

Cyborg77: Forcing people and content providers to code their websites especially for the iPad/iPhone is a move in the wrong direction

Nothing is specially required to make a site work on the iThings. One can make the site work better by declaring viewports, but it's hardly required.

The reality is, of course, that websites that want to work well on mobile devices does require custom development, whether you're coding for the iPhone or Android (which, by the way, has the same lack of Flash and support for H.264).

So, basically, if you want your site to work everywhere, use Flash as a fallback, not a primary mechanism. Which is what you should be doing anyway. Flash always was an ugly patch over the limitations of HTML and ECMAScript.
 
2010-05-05 10:38:46 AM
Alphax: Just relaunched Safari after a Flash-caused crash.

i think it begs the question: why use safari? that browser is a total dump

use chrome
 
2010-05-05 10:39:09 AM
I was curious and went to see what Youtube was doing in regards to html5, and found this:


YouTube HTML5 Video Player

This is an opt-in experiment for HTML5 support on YouTube. If you are using a supported browser, you can choose to use the HTML5 player instead of the Flash player for most videos. Your comments will help us improve and perfect the mixtures we're working on. So jump in, play around, and send your feedback directly to the brains behind the scenes.


Supported Browsers

Right now we support browsers that support both the video tag in HTML5 and the h.264 video codec. These include:

* Google Chrome
* Apple Safari (version 4+)
* Microsoft Internet Explorer with Google Chrome Frame installed (Get Google Chrome Frame)


link (new window)

So no Firefox support, but Chrome (aka their own browser) appears required for PCs.... hmmmm........
 
2010-05-05 10:42:46 AM
AdamK: i think it begs the question: why use safari? that browser is a total dump

1. That's not begging the question

2. Safari's great on the Mac as long as you stay away from poorly coded Flash animations.
 
2010-05-05 10:43:06 AM
Alphax: Just relaunched Safari after a Flash-caused crash.

You're the one using safari. You have choices - choose to use a better browser.
 
2010-05-05 10:43:18 AM
"There's a ton of momentum behind HTML5, and it's well-justified momentum," Mozilla VP of engineering Mike Shaver tells Webmonkey. "The future of the web is the web, and betting against the web is a bad idea."

wat
 
2010-05-05 10:44:55 AM
Flash is the modern version of RealPlayer. It serves a purpose, but technology will move past it.
 
2010-05-05 10:45:35 AM
AdamK: hat browser is a total dump

It's not awful. I prefer it to Firefox, only because the rendering engine is so much better. Chrome, of course, wins.
 
2010-05-05 10:51:18 AM
Who needs anything? It's nice to have the option, though.
 
2010-05-05 10:51:55 AM
"The future of the web is the web, and betting against the web is a bad idea."

/web
 
2010-05-05 10:52:23 AM
ihatedumbpeople: drjekel_mrhyde: This guy and his Ipad
Link (new window)
/I seriously don't know if the video is a joke or what

That guy is why I can't stand YouTube. Bunch of self important asses talking their asses off like anyone cares what they say. Stop buying stuff and filming yourself opening it. That's lame.


I don't think you watched it.

/and it appeared to be satire to me drjekel
 
2010-05-05 10:55:56 AM
So HTML 5 support animations?
If so, will there be an option to turn animations off.
 
2010-05-05 10:58:14 AM
t3knomanser: It's not awful. I prefer it to Firefox, only because the rendering engine is so much better. Chrome, of course, wins.

I've been using Chrome for a few months now, and my only real problem with it is that if I'm in a form, for example, if I'm typing a reply in fark, and I run a search, when I click on the found term, say, to highlight it, the click still registers in the form. To highlight found terms, I need to first click outside of the form before I search.
 
2010-05-05 10:58:44 AM
The move to HTML5 (and specifically, h.264) is nice for those that watch video via XBMC scrapers.

/wait... youtube has a whole site?
 
2010-05-05 11:00:03 AM
The only problem that i have with h.264 is that you can't only grab part of the video.

If you start in the middle of the video (which is very common for youtubers), it's much slower and the video is incapable of being played from the cache.
 
2010-05-05 11:00:29 AM
Protip: flash isn't used for video only. subbing in HTML5 or whatever the f*ck isn't going to provide an alternative designer-friendly platform for interactive web design / interactive design in general, animation, etc.

This is a lot of hot air from web developers who are trying to weigh in on a program they're only using part of.
 
2010-05-05 11:01:31 AM
Smarshmallow: t3knomanser: It's not awful. I prefer it to Firefox, only because the rendering engine is so much better. Chrome, of course, wins.

I've been using Chrome for a few months now, and my only real problem with it is that if I'm in a form, for example, if I'm typing a reply in fark, and I run a search, when I click on the found term, say, to highlight it, the click still registers in the form. To highlight found terms, I need to first click outside of the form before I search.


I've been a Mozilla products user for ten years now--first the whole Seamonkey suite, then Firefox back when it was called Phoenix--and I couldn't stand Chrome. Very fast, yes, but it's still very immature from a configuration and extension standpoint.

I'll check it out again later, I'm sure, but it's Firefox for me for now.
 
2010-05-05 11:08:23 AM
RustNeverSleeps: /hotlinked

Thank you.

Done in one
 
2010-05-05 11:10:24 AM
Homestarrunner fans. That site is the only good use of Flash on the entire internet. Period.

Flash sucks and any web designer who uses it for site navigation should be shot.
 
2010-05-05 11:14:02 AM
8Draw: subbing in HTML5 or whatever the f*ck isn't going to provide an alternative designer-friendly platform for interactive web design / interactive design in general, animation, etc.

Bull. HTML5 internals are just as capable as Flash/AS for interactive design, animation and even 2D games/graphics (3D coming with WebGL).

The standard has nothing at all to do with "designer-friendly". What makes something designer-friendly is the availability of 3rd-party development tools. The open nature of HTML5 will lead to a much richer set of development tools than Flash, where your choices are Flash Professional and.... lots of of stuff that half works.
 
2010-05-05 11:14:10 AM
FLASH IS TOTALLY USELESS AND OUTDATED

We should start very seeing early adoption of the next big thing in 3-5 years.
 
2010-05-05 11:14:50 AM
8Draw: alternative designer-friendly platform for interactive web design / interactive design in general, animation, etc.

You're jumping from Flash-as-a-file-format to Flash-as-a-design-tool. These are two very distinct areas, and people are only concerned about the former. Anything a Flash file can do, from storing local data, to advanced animations is part of the HTML5 spec. In fact, the upcoming bits and pieces of the HTML5 spec exceed some of Flash's capabilities (WebGL is going to be awesome).

If Adobe added an option to Flash Studio that let developers compile their design into HTML5, they'd be golden and guaranteed a long future as a design tool.
 
2010-05-05 11:15:21 AM
rummonkey: RustNeverSleeps: /hotlinked

Thank you.

Done in one


It is never done in one.
 
2010-05-05 11:18:20 AM
fluffy2097: We should start very seeing early adoption of the next big thing in 3-5 years.

No, early adoption has already started. Of the major browsers, only IE doesn't support it, and IE's marketshare is around 60% now.

Sites, of course, will need to start taking advantage of these features, and the reason for advocating HTML5 over Flash is so that they start doing this sooner rather than later.
 
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