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(Some Guy)   East Haven, Connecticut: Of 376 tickets handed out, 56.3 percent were issued to drivers with Hispanic last names in a town that has a Hispanic population of 5.8 percent. Is that wrong?   (nhregister.com) divider line 234
    More: Obvious, East Haven, Yale Law School, U.S. Department of Justice, traffic stops, service organizations, policies and procedures, administrative leave, slideshow  
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7158 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Apr 2010 at 6:23 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-04-24 10:52:47 PM
Darth Cheney

wtf is a taco truck
You know of a truck that drives around with tacos?
And you eat them? WTF?


You sound Eastern.
 
2010-04-24 10:58:06 PM
whammer: I think something obvious is being missed here.

They say that the town only has 5.8% Hispanic residents. However, did they note how many Hispanics that are pulled over are town residents?

A likely explanation is that there is a major employer of Hispanics in the area, and the town is between it and where most of the driving Hispanics live. It is not uncommon for people to commute.

For example, there is a county in Arkansas that is *majority* Hispanic, because Tyson Foods has a major plant there and has hired a LOT of Hispanics. However, being an otherwise fairly rural place, if there is something that the employees need that is not in that county, they probably have to drive through many towns to get to it. Enough so that the traffic statistics of those towns would look peculiar as well.

As do I, because half the morans in the article are automatically equating "Hispanic brown skinned-type people" with illegal aliens.

Grew up in CT and lived there most of my life. In Connecticut there is a good-sized population of Puerto Ricans who by law are also US citizens (it's not just a bunch of rich WASPs, really). Unless the demographics have drastically changed, most of them are probably legal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateside_Puerto_Ricans
 
2010-04-24 11:03:53 PM
flexflint: Which episode? (big fan)

Seriously? Celestial Navigation, 15th episode of the 1st season.
 
2010-04-24 11:05:51 PM
maybe the mexicans in question speed more in this region. If they were guilty and whites weren't let off the hook what does it matter?

48% of black women have herpes compared to 12 % of whites.

OMG HERPES IS RACIST!

Just because all people are equal doesn't mean they will make the same choices Sometimes more mexicans will speed, sometimes more whites will.
 
2010-04-24 11:06:36 PM
It's a good thing they were able to tell the Filipinos from the Mexicans.
 
2010-04-24 11:06:36 PM
What percent of the population is Hispanic using the "Hispanic sounding last name" method?
 
2010-04-24 11:13:21 PM
cedarpark: It's a good thing they were able to tell the Filipinos from the Mexicans.

Most mexicans can't. They come up to my ife and start talking in spanish and i have to explain to her what they said.
 
2010-04-24 11:22:57 PM
muck4doo:
Travis County and APD have never pulled me over. My parents live in Cedar Park, and I dread going over there. I've been pulled over 5 times over there for all completely minor crap.

/Yes, you signaled muck4doo, but that wasn't 500 feet before you made the turn.


Neither APD nor TCSD have jurisdiction in Cedar Park, which is in Williamson County. The difference between Travis and Williamson counties in terms of tolerance and fair-mindedness is approximately comparable to the difference between the Netherlands and Iran.

The typical employee of the Williamson Co sherriff's department is a cross between JW Pfepper from the 80's James Bond movies, and Buford T Justice from Smokey and the Bandit, and weighs as much as both combined. Metallic brown Crown Victoria, sunglasses with the mirroring on the inside, etc. ... the full stereotype of a hick Texas redneck cop.

My favourite Williamson County story dates from 2002 ... late at night, ripping the car along Lime Creek Rd, which runs along Lake Travis from Volente to the north side of Cedar Park. I had a '92 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4, which apart from being a 4wd turbo nutter bastard car, has bypass traps for the rear silencers, which naturally I had open. At 7,000 rpm at full load, it is farking loud.

After a bit, I see a light bar in the distance through the trees, so I slow down to a crawl maybe 2 corners before it ... as I trundle past, there is a Buford supervising a tow truck winching a boy racer's Camaro out of the ditch. I roll down the window and give him a smile and a wave, to which he responds with the evil eye and a shaken finger, and I trundle on, then proceed to floor it and haul ass from abut 400 yds further on ... no risk of being caught, Tommi Makkinen could not keep up with a VR-4 on a twisty road if he was driving a lard ass Crown Vic, and Buford wouldn't know what to do with a decibel meter.

/ParaHandy lives 500yds south of the Travis-Williamson line
//on the good side!
///can I give myself a "cool story bro" ?
 
2010-04-24 11:26:58 PM
shtychkn: What percent of the population is Hispanic using the "Hispanic sounding last name" method?

Hispanic is not a last name. It's not a race. It's occupationality.

Anyone who mows a lawn? Hispanic
Pool cleaner? Hispanic
Cleans windows? Hispanic
 
2010-04-24 11:33:03 PM
ParaHandy: muck4doo:
Travis County and APD have never pulled me over. My parents live in Cedar Park, and I dread going over there. I've been pulled over 5 times over there for all completely minor crap.

/Yes, you signaled muck4doo, but that wasn't 500 feet before you made the turn.

Neither APD nor TCSD have jurisdiction in Cedar Park, which is in Williamson County. The difference between Travis and Williamson counties in terms of tolerance and fair-mindedness is approximately comparable to the difference between the Netherlands and Iran.

The typical employee of the Williamson Co sherriff's department is a cross between JW Pfepper from the 80's James Bond movies, and Buford T Justice from Smokey and the Bandit, and weighs as much as both combined. Metallic brown Crown Victoria, sunglasses with the mirroring on the inside, etc. ... the full stereotype of a hick Texas redneck cop.

My favourite Williamson County story dates from 2002 ... late at night, ripping the car along Lime Creek Rd, which runs along Lake Travis from Volente to the north side of Cedar Park. I had a '92 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4, which apart from being a 4wd turbo nutter bastard car, has bypass traps for the rear silencers, which naturally I had open. At 7,000 rpm at full load, it is farking loud.

After a bit, I see a light bar in the distance through the trees, so I slow down to a crawl maybe 2 corners before it ... as I trundle past, there is a Buford supervising a tow truck winching a boy racer's Camaro out of the ditch. I roll down the window and give him a smile and a wave, to which he responds with the evil eye and a shaken finger, and I trundle on, then proceed to floor it and haul ass from abut 400 yds further on ... no risk of being caught, Tommi Makkinen could not keep up with a VR-4 on a twisty road if he was driving a lard ass Crown Vic, and Buford wouldn't know what to do with a decibel meter.

/ParaHandy lives 500yds south of the Travis-Williamson line
//on the good side!
///can I give myself a "cool story bro" ?


I approve your cool story bro. My worst even there was getting pulled over on Cypress Creek BLVD for "swerving". I hadn't had anything to drink, and don't do drugs. The cop searched my car, and found a tin box he said smelled like marijuana(It was a gift box that a swatch came in). He also said some very tiny rocks in the carpet were marijuana seeds. I told him I don't smoke pot, and he could go test me if he wanted. He didn't. I ended up going to court for that stupid crap, and the D.A. dropped it for lack of evidence. If I could kick that cop in the balls I would.

/And get away with it, that is.
 
2010-04-24 11:57:35 PM
I hear there's a white guy selling crack behind Black's Hardware Store.
 
2010-04-25 12:00:15 AM
Q: How do you improve the average IQ of both Texas and Oklahoma?
A: Transfer a cop from Cedar Park to OKC.

/oblig.
 
2010-04-25 12:31:50 AM
jjorsett: The larger issue is how the cops know that drivers have a Hispanic surname in order to target them. Surname profiling from a moving vehicle has got to be pretty tough.

running someone's plates while driving is remarkably easy... I'm not sure why you think it would be tough to know the vehicle owner (likely driver) identity before executing a stop.
 
2010-04-25 12:32:37 AM
GaryPDX: Obviously you're one those Albuquerque elitists. I bet you live up by the Tram.

I meant the Florida Tag wasn't a big deal anymore. I wouldn't mind seeing one for New Mexico.

/Lives 300+ miles from those cities that lie at the monster's feet.
 
2010-04-25 12:36:18 AM
oldebayer: GaryPDX: Obviously you're one those Albuquerque elitists. I bet you live up by the Tram.

I meant the Florida Tag wasn't a big deal anymore. I wouldn't mind seeing one for New Mexico.

/Lives 300+ miles from those cities that lie at the monster's feet.


Greetings from Santa Fe!
 
2010-04-25 12:38:49 AM
In my area in SoCal, the hispanic drivers are known for notoriously driving below the speed limit. In the left lane. On the freeway. During rush hour.

Fragmented sentences.

I like.
 
2010-04-25 12:46:27 AM
Basically it works like this: in central and south america traffic laws are treated kind of like it's Pirates of the Caribbean, guidelines rather than rules.

People move to America, they still think that traffic 'rules' are merely guidelines, excuses for a police officer to pull you over and extract money for you when they feel like it. They continue to drive just like they did at home. Being pulled over doesn't seem to change this behavior, because it's seen as a reinforcement of it, when they get pulled over in their mind the police are just hassling them and taking their money. It doesn't make them want to change their driving habits.

In California, I can tell you places that are heavily hispanic have more or less given up on enforcing rules of the road. Basically you have to be doing something really, REALLY stupid and dangerous right in front of a cop car or be speeding some truly ridiculous amount to get pulled over. But driving around city streets it's a free for all.

But in places where traffic laws are actually enforced I can see them getting ticketed like crazy. It's not really an issue of being a 'bad' driver in the sense that you're trying but not capable, it's that they're not making an effort to even TRY to follow the rules in the first place.
 
2010-04-25 12:52:05 AM
IronTony: I'd just like to state as a Cuban from Miami, hispanics are terrible drivers. I have never EVER seen anyone else reverse across four lanes of traffic in broad daylight. Or drive straight through a redlight while laying into the horn.


South Orlando here. I actually haven't noticed the bad driving part about Hispanics. (Old people on the other hand...) But I can say that Hispanics here, more often than not, seem to consider tag registration and auto insurance optional. No offence, but in my experience it's appears true. Florida is #5 out of 50 in the nation for uninsured drivers. And it's not the little old grey hairs driving around uninsured.

I wonder what the numbers would be if they factored out non-moving violations for expired license, expired registration, no valid insurance, vehicle equipment violations (seats, suspension, window tint), etc.
 
2010-04-25 12:52:52 AM
namegoeshere GAT_00: flexflint: Which episode? (big fan)

Seriously? Celestial Navigation, 15th episode of the 1st season.


Thanks much, I think I missed that one, going to watch it today.
 
2010-04-25 01:24:46 AM
Quebec is part of Latin America.
 
2010-04-25 01:43:32 AM
I'm really trying to care...

... Sorry, it just isn't working.
 
2010-04-25 02:36:53 AM
Dear Jerk: My last name begins with z, but the only names I can think of that end in z are Hispanic. I don't know what that means, other than that I have not put too much thought into it.

Heinz?

Schewitz?
 
2010-04-25 03:21:18 AM
Satan_Himself: Heinz?

Schewitz?



Drei?
 
2010-04-25 04:21:06 AM
Racism? In MY Connecticut?

The sad fact is there are a lot of white supremacists among the Italians in Connecticut. Which I always thought was really funny. My next door neighbor when I lived in West Haven (yep, right across the bay from East Haven) used to have barbecues with all these white supremacist types, and there's nothing quite so WTF as seeing an olive-skinned dude with a unibrow getting out of a car with confederate and iron cross bumper stickers.

As far as the cops, dunno, I only got pulled over one time in the 9 years I lived in CT (coming back from a goth night at Gotham in New Haven, heh) and the guy let me off with a warning. But then nobody would ever mistake me for Mexican.
 
2010-04-25 05:45:56 AM
Racism is definitely a part, but bear in mind this town is less than a mile across almost every way you cut it. So throwing the statistic of the color of resident's doesn't reflect the general color of drivers.
 
2010-04-25 08:14:12 AM
OK it's late and long in the thread, and probably no one will read this. For those who are trying to indicate possible bias of the study misrepresenting bias on the part of the officers - they may have missed some of the facts while coming up with responses for FARK. So here is another one of my long drawn out breakdowns to point out some things I haven't seen in the thread.

For the sake of accurate debate here is a review the facts in the article:

1. It was an 8 month analysis of traffic stops on Main Street and Rt 80 in East Haven.
(Google Earth will prove whether it's a major thoroughfare I didn't check)

2. It was specifically about "tickets issued." The local paper we are linking too does not give us the total number of stops vs. tickets issued.

3. Separate from the Yale study local "Reverend James Manship, at St. Rose of Lima Church in New Haven, which filed a complaint last year with the U.S. Department of Justice on alleged racial profiling by East Haven police against Latinos." so it was a known issue.

4. The DOJ is also investigating this police department for racial profiling

and most importanlty:

5. The local cops seem to stop issuing more tickets to hispanic sounding last named people when they are working with the state troopers.

So on their own if the name sounds hispanic the tickets are over 50% of those issued and when working with others the tickets issued to to names that sound hispanic are statistically appropriate.

It may still be more than the general population of hispanic names but it is not as high as when they are operating on their own- therefore people with hispanic sounding names might be lousy drivers or unregistered as posited by some people here but when they are stopped for state and federal guidelines they do not trigger as many tickets issue, proportionately as they do when they are stopped by local cops alone.

FTFA - "The law school students also looked at "Click It or Ticket" traffic stops in East Haven, a national program that enforces seat belt use in cars. They said it appears the pattern of traffic stop enforcement against Hispanics "dissipates when the EHPD is operating under state and/or federal guidelines."

Remember that just because the person with the hispanic sounding name might not be hispanic doesn't mean there is no racisim - if the cops are prejudice the non-hispanics name Lopez are suffering from racial profiling because they are more likely to get the ticket because of the name. While a stand alone investigation means nothing the fact that it can be compared and contrasted when the same cops are working with other groups does mean something.

Also some here have argued that the cops can't know the name before they stop the car - however they do know the name as soon as they stop the car - and before they issue the ticket - therefore the name can be the trigger for the profiling. The study is based on tickets issued.

Other issues from TFA include "the Connecticut Freedom of Information Commission this week also found the Police Department violated the law by failing to release requested records, including "use of force" reports." They are debating passing a ruling that says so - probably so they can get the reports.

So

6. The local cops are hiding or not releasing other records requested besides traffic stops- this indicates the "oops I missed the hispanic Box and accidentally put caucasian" on Mr. Lopez's ticket is part of an overall pattern with East Haven police.

While the deabte to make things OK was fun- and it's hardly Sherriff Joe in Maricopa - the East Haven cops are now in trouble with local, state and federal supervisory governments and agencies.

For those who think it's "wrong" to have a box that identifies the race of the person who is on the receiving end of police action - the officer has to fill it out - not the person and it is to monitor police activity to keep them from their own version of Jim Crow laws - the East Haven cops know that too.

So in conclusion - The names are used with both studies- they are 10x the representation of those names in the population, they are NOT 10x the representation of those names when the locals cops are working with state or federal guidelines in similar traffic stop activities. Left on their own they will issue more tickets to those names.

If drivers with hispanic sounding names are proportionately more likely to be violating some traffic law they should equally be represented at high ticket issued percentages at the state level when in East Haven. They are not, therefore is is unlikely that the behaviors with regard to licensing and registration changed, it is more likely that the behavior of the cops changed.

If you think the drivers with hispanic names are guilty of something just because law enforcement got involved you also have to think the East Haven cops are guilty of something because state and federal law enforcement is also involved.

They certainly have some 'splainin to do.

/and some records to cough up to the state.
 
2010-04-25 09:00:14 AM
bobbiepaws: Kyosuke

When you use the word "spic" I automatically write you off as a a**hole. At that point you could make the most intellectually sound argument, and I would still think you were an idiot simply because of your choice of vernacular. Many of my close friends (nay, family) are of Mexican descent, and they don't use racially divisive terms.

People that choose to use such terms just show how ignorant they are. I would go into why stereotypes are harmful, but the argument would be lost on you because you have so much "evidence" to the contrary (albeit anecdotal).


Why are you arguing this point with me? I never used the term. Ever. Perhaps you meant to lambast someone else.
 
2010-04-25 09:13:14 AM
davidphogan: Jackpot777: The officer stopping your car knows if the owner is Brad Wellington, Tyrone Washington, or Luiz Rodriguez before he turns on the siren.

It's funny that gets brought up. When I was driving cars I owned over the past 7 or 8 years, I've been pulled over exactly twice. Driving a company-owned car registered under my boss' Colombian wife's name, I was pulled over at least 5 or 6 times in a year.

They must have assumed I stole it, right?


Oh yes, because all cops are never married; so they probably have never had a conversation which involved a car being registered by the woman before the couple got married, but is now on record (which the police can check with which insurance company) as being insured in both the owner's name and the name of her more recent spouse. So there's a good chance they'd never have to consider such things.

Sorry: I said 'cops', but was thinking 'Catholic priests'. My bad.
 
2010-04-25 11:59:59 AM
As other people have pointed out, the majority of the tickets were probably issued to people passing through, not actual residents. So the demographics of the town mean nothing. Secondly, it's only wrong if it wasn't Hispanics doing all the speeding.
 
2010-04-25 12:38:32 PM
no,that's not wrong at all,time for them illegal Aliens to speak English,learn how to drive and NOT miss cynco de mayo,where they come from!!
 
2010-04-25 12:41:43 PM
ThrobblefootSpectre: Satan_Himself: Heinz?

Schewitz?

Drei?


good lord that was awlful.... (and i loved it!)
 
2010-04-25 03:33:34 PM
bobbiepaws: Kyosuke

When you use the word "spic" I automatically write you off as a a**hole. At that point you could make the most intellectually sound argument, and I would still think you were an idiot simply because of your choice of vernacular. Many of my close friends (nay, family) are of Mexican descent, and they don't use racially divisive terms.

People that choose to use such terms just show how ignorant they are. I would go into why stereotypes are harmful, but the argument would be lost on you because you have so much "evidence" to the contrary (albeit anecdotal).


Actually, a spic is a Rican. A mexican is a wetback. I once called a Rican a Mexican and he freaked out on me. I now call all mexicans Ricans and all Ricans mexicans just for the lulz.
 
2010-04-25 03:39:56 PM
In my one and only traffic ticket, my race was listed as "white", even though I am obviously not white. I think this was done to skew the statistics and hide the racial profiling. I did a perfectly legal right turn on yellow, but the cop claimed that it was a red light.

I would have definitely contested the ticket, but I was going abroad the next day for a few months. I had to suck it up and pay the ticket.

I remember seeing a news article about cops in Taylor, Michigan, doing this to hide traces of their racial profiling. I can't find that news article now though. Anybody with better googlefu wants to give it a try?
 
2010-04-25 05:27:02 PM
Living in a Central California city, and having witnessed a crap load of Hispanic drivers, I would have to agree that the statistics in this article are highly accurate.
 
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