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(Telegraph)   Islamic fundamentalism? All Hitler's fault   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 204
    More: Obvious, Arab world, Nazi propaganda, Islamic fundamentalism, Islamism, Islamic, Greeks, Second World War, Armenians  
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13371 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Apr 2010 at 4:45 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-04-22 05:36:42 PM
Killer Refresh Rate: Why do people hate Jewish people? Seriously, what's the damn problem? Are they really that bad? I've never met one before so I don't know, but I've seriously never understood these issues.

Not a troll, I just read about it all the time and never really bothered to ask. Even google can't really seem to help me out without some massive essay. Can someone here simplify the issue for a lazy bastard like me please?


You've never borrowed money?

/I keed.
 
2010-04-22 05:36:58 PM
There are no Muslim gays, just like Ah'm a-dyin' or whoever says. Just straight Muslim men. Some of whom dig getting screwed by other straight Muslim men. Who are not, of course, gay.
 
2010-04-22 05:37:15 PM
Okay, now that guy has crossed the line.
 
2010-04-22 05:38:05 PM
Killer Refresh Rate: Why do people hate Jewish people? Seriously, what's the damn problem? Are they really that bad? I've never met one before so I don't know, but I've seriously never understood these issues.

Not a troll, I just read about it all the time and never really bothered to ask. Even google can't really seem to help me out without some massive essay. Can someone here simplify the issue for a lazy bastard like me please?


It's an elitist community convinced not only that their god loves them best but that everyone else is worth a lot less than them. Unlike most other religions they are not open to everyone but prefer to take in only the successful.

There is nothing inherently wrong with any of that but it makes them easy targets for persecution, especially when things go badly.
 
2010-04-22 05:38:43 PM
ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com

I'm the first? Really?
 
2010-04-22 05:39:45 PM
Islam sucks. Momo is only good with OJ.
 
2010-04-22 05:40:12 PM
Sticky Hands: tzzhc4: If the Jews and the Muslims had NOT been fighting prior to WW2 then I might give this some consideration but last time I checked the whole Jew-Muslim-Christian crapola has been going on for centuries.

You know who else has been fighting for centuries?


So awesome!

/I never drive faster than I can see.
//It's all in the reflexes.
 
2010-04-22 05:40:30 PM
I've had the writer of this book, Dr. Herf, as a Professor before. He is a really intelligent guy and his books are all well-respected.

I haven't read this one yet, but I'm pretty sure the article is taking out of context. While I think Herf briefly talks about this, the main part of the book is about Nazi propaganda in the Middle East.
 
2010-04-22 05:42:16 PM
I blame Fartbongo.
 
2010-04-22 05:42:37 PM
bachdog: The Declaration of Independence was printed on hemp.

my bullshiat detector is running about about 99% right here.....
 
2010-04-22 05:43:14 PM
The Southern Dandy: /just because this pic always make me laugh.

Hess nodding with the music makes that one work.
 
2010-04-22 05:44:58 PM
stewmadness: Islam sucks. Momo is only good with OJ.

Momo?

img442.imageshack.us

/not even remotely obscure
 
2010-04-22 05:48:17 PM
So the already detestable muslim loons have a Nazi connection. Talk about coals to Newcastle.
 
2010-04-22 05:51:29 PM
 
2010-04-22 05:52:24 PM
The Jews have been hated down through the years because they are successful, mainly because they work at it, but also for other reasons.

When they left Israel in the first Diaspora, they settled all over Europe, where they were not trusted and unwelcome. As such, they tended to keep to themselves, and also formed alliances with other communities across borders; in time this allowed them to take the lead in international trade, but it also increased the hatred even more.

In Moslem countries, this hatred took the form of a tax called the jizbah, a heavy levy usually around 33% on everyone not a Moslem doing business there. It was intended to break their backs--it had the reverse effect, because they did not sell to their own people, they just bartered back and forth.

When they came to Israel 62 years ago, they found nothing--not even fresh water. The locals were living in mud huts along dirt roads, and using a hole in the back yard for a toilet.

Fast forward twenty years, and the Jews had built a whole modern nation with highways, hospitals and schools---but where were the locals? Same mud huts, same dirt roads; maybe the hole in the backyard filled up and they dug a new one.
 
2010-04-22 05:52:56 PM
Killer Refresh Rate: Why do people hate Jewish people? Seriously, what's the damn problem? Are they really that bad? I've never met one before so I don't know, but I've seriously never understood these issues.

Not a troll, I just read about it all the time and never really bothered to ask. Even google can't really seem to help me out without some massive essay. Can someone here simplify the issue for a lazy bastard like me please?


Jews were a marginalized community that no one wanted in Europe and made a good scapegoat for Hitler's propaganda. Hitler hated himself because his father, Schicklegruber was actually a Jew.

Today, people don't really hate Jews so much as they condemn Israel. Israel is a religious state that took the land from the Palestinians already living there, justifying their take-over occupation as "it used to be our land, we want it back." Great Britain backed this takeover by promising the land which wasn't theirs to give. There was guilt over the holocaust and they didn't want the Jews in Europe either, apparently.

This sounds like exaggeration but read any history of the area (and I don't mean read an Israeli history book) and it is nearly impossible to say that what the Israeli's did wasn't bullsh it.

People today say that a two-state solution is the only way any hope for peace is possible in the region.

The two-state solution will never happen because Israel will never agree. Never.

A good solution would be for both religious-states to totally obliterate each other. good riddance

nutshell
 
2010-04-22 06:00:31 PM
olddinosaur: The Jews have been hated down through the years because they are successful, mainly because they work at it, but also for other reasons.

When they left Israel in the first Diaspora, they settled all over Europe, where they were not trusted and unwelcome. As such, they tended to keep to themselves, and also formed alliances with other communities across borders; in time this allowed them to take the lead in international trade, but it also increased the hatred even more.

In Moslem countries, this hatred took the form of a tax called the jizbah, a heavy levy usually around 33% on everyone not a Moslem doing business there. It was intended to break their backs--it had the reverse effect, because they did not sell to their own people, they just bartered back and forth.

When they came to Israel 62 years ago, they found nothing--not even fresh water. The locals were living in mud huts along dirt roads, and using a hole in the back yard for a toilet.

Fast forward twenty years, and the Jews had built a whole modern nation with highways, hospitals and schools---but where were the locals? Same mud huts, same dirt roads; maybe the hole in the backyard filled up and they dug a new one.


You left out what I consider a few important factors. In the middle ages the Jewish preference for hygiene and the food restrictions made a whole lot of sense. So when "good Christians" started dropping dead because of bad food or whatever, but the Jews were perfectly healthy, it was obvious that the devil was protecting those heathen Jews.

Also, Jews sticking with their own was not always by choice. It wasn't unusual for them to be severely limited to where they could live by law.
 
2010-04-22 06:02:16 PM
Leeds: After last night's South Park, we should all learn the name of "Yousef al-Khattab"

He's the ass-pounding muzzie who threatened to murder Trey and Matt if they uttered the word Muhammed in last night's episode.

Seriously. Yousef al-Khattab, wherever you are- EAT A DICK.

P.S. Quote me, you fatwah launching, cock sucking, muzzie loser.


I was wondering why it went from them saying muhammed to beeeeeeeeep
 
2010-04-22 06:02:28 PM
Killer Refresh Rate: halfof33: Killer Refresh Rate: Why do people hate Jewish people? Seriously, what's the damn problem? Are they really that bad? I've never met one before so I don't know, but I've seriously never understood these issues.

wut??? I just can't get over this sentence. You never met a jew, wtf?

Well, I might have without ever knowing. One's religion isn't something that typically comes up in normal conversation. I suppose this is my point, what is it about these people that brings such endless hate and persecution on them?


Hundreds of years ago Jews were denied most higher employment, lawyers, civil servants, etc. Thus, the smarter Jews had no upward mobility, and often became traders or merchants who could act independently of the system. Also, most gentiles couldn't charge a person interest (something most Muslims still can't do according to Sharia), thus they often became wealthy bankers.

Well, every few years the economy goes bust and everyone's loan defaults, so best to put the blame on is those evil bankers who are now sitting on your property.

You could go back further when the last Jewish rebellion, where Christians split with Jews over the issue of Jesus's divinity, but there doesn't appear to be much widescale hatred and violence until the middle ages.

That carried over today and mixes with a bunch of faux-reasonings (Communism, Capitalism, Establishing Israel, Occupation of the West Bank), but it seems the real reason is it's a convenient scape goat for your own failings as a society than to drum up traditional hatred that hasn't even been relevent for hundreds of years.
 
2010-04-22 06:06:25 PM
Gyrfalcon: Poor Hitler.
Pretty soon he'll be to blame for Global Warming, tooth decay, and that mess at Goldman-Sachs.
Not saying he doesn't deserve all the pain he's getting, but really. Tooth decay?


If you think about it, we do have Hitler to blame for the Baby Boomer generation.
 
2010-04-22 06:09:24 PM
bachdog: Jews were a marginalized community that no one wanted in Europe and made a good scapegoat for Hitler's propaganda. Hitler hated himself because his father, Schicklegruber was actually a Jew.

Today, people don't really hate Jews so much as they condemn Israel. Israel is a religious state that took the land from the Palestinians already living there, justifying their take-over occupation as "it used to be our land, we want it back." Great Britain backed this takeover by promising the land which wasn't theirs to give. There was guilt over the holocaust and they didn't want the Jews in Europe either, apparently.

This sounds like exaggeration but read any history of the area (and I don't mean read an Israeli history book) and it is nearly impossible to say that what the Israeli's did wasn't bullsh it.

People today say that a two-state solution is the only way any hope for peace is possible in the region.

The two-state solution will never happen because Israel will never agree. Never.

A good solution would be for both religious-states to totally obliterate each other. good riddance

nutshell


www.platformtennis.org

You do realize that prior to the 67 Arab attack, there already was a 2 state solution. It was called Jordan.

Israel was carved from the Ottoman empire after Jewish migration had already been in effect for almost a century, take a look at the whole area of British Palestine sometime and see how much they portioned that to the Jews. That was the original two state solution.

Of course, this thread wasn't about Israel, it was about hatred of Jews. You seemed content to combine the two.. wonder why?
 
2010-04-22 06:09:42 PM
There's an excellent article from Macleans magazine in Canada entitled "The Return of Hitler" that dovetails into this thread. I submitted it the other day, but it never went anywhere. It's worth the read if you're interested.
 
2010-04-22 06:09:46 PM
Sticky Hands: bachdog: The Declaration of Independence was printed on hemp.

my bullshiat detector is running about about 99% right here.....


Nope. While the final document was on parchment, the drafts were in fact done on hemp paper. Hemp paper was very common at the time as it was durable and easier to produce than wood pulp paper.

Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp (new window)
 
2010-04-22 06:10:24 PM
We have a saying around here:
"Get over it, Hitler!" (new window)
 
2010-04-22 06:12:43 PM
People need to get their facts straight and read some history. Muhammad traveled and learned from both Christians and Jews. He like both just fine. In fact, the Koran calls Jews and Christians "Brothers of the Book" and the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Gospels (Injil) are accepted. He took monotheism and applied it to his own polytheistic arabic culture to unite them. In fact, "jihad" had nothing to do with Christians or Jews but was rather a call for the arabic speaking people to be united under the ONE GOD, Allah (which Muhammad saw as the God of the Jews and Christians), even by the means of force. Violence was not to be meted out to Christians and Jews unless attacked by them....

Obviously, it did not take long for Muhammad's teachings to be used for political gain, much like Constantine absorbed early Christianity into his own political movement: the Roman Catholic Church.
 
2010-04-22 06:14:02 PM
tzzhc4: If the Jews and the Muslims had NOT been fighting prior to WW2 then I might give this some consideration but last time I checked the whole Jew-Muslim-Christian crapola has been going on for centuries.

Naaaaa it's pretty much been since 1948...see that's when a bunch of European people who happened to be Jewish decided Palestine was where they needed to be.
 
2010-04-22 06:14:42 PM
Gordian Cipher: stewmadness: Islam sucks. Momo is only good with OJ.

Momo?



/not even remotely obscure


i132.photobucket.com

It's the Cadillac of minivans.
 
2010-04-22 06:15:21 PM
OgreMagi: it was obvious that the devil was protecting those heathen Jews.

What you are talking about is an annual cleansing ritual--I don't know the name of it--where every grain of food is removed from the house, and the while thing is scrubbed from top to bottom. Then the Rabbi goes through and inspects, and if he finds one fleck of dirt, it all has to be done again.

A rat couldn't make a living in such a house, so the rats all went elsewhere--and this was done in the season of the year most conducive to plague.

In general, kosher dietary law also protects from such things as shellfish toxin, trichinosis, and other diet-related diseases. No one understood germs at the time, they just watched who got sick, and figured God didn't want you to eat that stuff.
 
2010-04-22 06:15:38 PM
trouzourt: Leeds: After last night's South Park, we should all learn the name of "Yousef al-Khattab"

He's the ass-pounding muzzie who threatened to murder Trey and Matt if they uttered the word Muhammed in last night's episode.

Seriously. Yousef al-Khattab, wherever you are- EAT A DICK.

P.S. Quote me, you fatwah launching, cock sucking, muzzie loser.

I was wondering why it went from them saying muhammed to beeeeeeeeep


The solution to this is simple.

Put Mohammed on TV, on all the channels. Put his face next to the logo that most channels have.

Put him on the magazine covers everywhere. Put copies on the subway, everywhere.

What will the Muslims do then? They can't attack everyone everywhere. It will dilute their threats and render them impotent, as well as insane.

BTW, Religion = Superstition + $$$$$
 
2010-04-22 06:16:54 PM
....and Hitler was a liberal socialist who borrowed part of his political philosophy from Mussolini, also a liberal socialist. It follows, therefore, that Islamic fundementalism is the fault of Fartbama.

img199.imageshack.us
 
2010-04-22 06:16:55 PM
you know who else's fault islamic fundamentalism is?

/wait...wut?
 
2010-04-22 06:18:32 PM
chu2dogg: Of course, this thread wasn't about Israel, it was about hatred of Jews. You seemed content to combine the two.. wonder why?

ummm. i'm not an arab or muslim or christian nd I don't hate jews. someone asked for a painless synopsis, ones without vague references to crap like Jordan and other irrelevant crap

honestly, i don't care what happens in the middle east. but i'm tired of my tax dollars going to support israel and give them nukes when they are a religious state, something that goes against simple American principle
 
2010-04-22 06:19:17 PM
olddinosaur: When they came to Israel 62 years ago, they found nothing--not even fresh water. The locals were living in mud huts along dirt roads, and using a hole in the back yard for a toilet.

Fast forward twenty years, and the Jews had built a whole modern nation with highways, hospitals and schools---but where were the locals? Same mud huts, same dirt roads; maybe the hole in the backyard filled up and they dug a new one.


These are all Hilal talking points for campus zionist...haha

-So by your logic the people were poor, didn't have much... "SO WE CAN TAKE IT"

/I hope Donald Trump knocks at your door
 
2010-04-22 06:19:22 PM
Republibocrat: People need to get their facts straight and read some history. Muhammad traveled and learned from both Christians and Jews. He like both just fine. In fact, the Koran calls Jews and Christians "Brothers of the Book" and the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Gospels (Injil) are accepted. He took monotheism and applied it to his own polytheistic arabic culture to unite them. In fact, "jihad" had nothing to do with Christians or Jews but was rather a call for the arabic speaking people to be united under the ONE GOD, Allah (which Muhammad saw as the God of the Jews and Christians), even by the means of force. Violence was not to be meted out to Christians and Jews unless attacked by them....

Obviously, it did not take long for Muhammad's teachings to be used for political gain, much like Constantine absorbed early Christianity into his own political movement: the Roman Catholic Church.


And I thought bachdog's revisionist history post was funny. This takes the cake.
 
2010-04-22 06:19:35 PM
chu2dogg
... but there doesn't appear to be much widescale hatred and violence until the middle ages.

There was always intolerance, but most of the violence began with Islam. In just two generations they overran all of the middle east, Persia, and North Africa. They forcibly converted a majority in the places they took over, and they nearly wiped out a large and ancient religion of Zoroastrianism.

Christians responded by becoming militant, and the poor Jews were stuck in the middle.

Later, in the early Twentieth century, Jews began moving back to Jerusalem in a movement called Zionism, and although they were peaceful, the land was severely underpopulated, and they paid for all the land they bought, The head Muslim Cleric of Jerusalem ordered riots, massacres, and pogroms against them and sided with Hitler.
 
2010-04-22 06:28:09 PM
Ok, if anyone is reading down this far, it's quite simple. ANY monotheistic salvation based religion is going to insight fundamentalism.

For the Americans that can't understand that statement, let me explain. You have a Religion, we'll call it Religion X. To follow and be saved by Religion X you have to forsake all other belief systems. You can only believe the word of Religion X, the is only one God, Religion X's god, and no others. And just for good measure we're going to thorw in an adversary to Religion X's God to give him (or you in the case of Islam) something to fight for.

So by the very nature of a monotheistic religion, fundamentalism is inherent.
 
2010-04-22 06:30:35 PM
Impudent Domain Quote 2010-04-22 06:19:35 PM
chu2dogg
... but there doesn't appear to be much widescale hatred and violence until the middle ages.

There was always intolerance, but most of the violence began with Islam. In just two generations they overran all of the middle east, Persia, and North Africa. They forcibly converted a majority in the places they took over, and they nearly wiped out a large and ancient religion of Zoroastrianism.

Christians responded by becoming militant, and the poor Jews were stuck in the middle.

Later, in the early Twentieth century, Jews began moving back to Jerusalem in a movement called Zionism, and although they were peaceful, the land was severely underpopulated, and they paid for all the land they bought, The head Muslim Cleric of Jerusalem ordered riots, massacres, and pogroms against them and sided with Hitler.


You missed Toronto, Brampton, and Pickering. Seriously. The Canadian government must be totally fakring blind or they really really want to populate Canada with Muslims.
 
2010-04-22 06:33:41 PM
It's Muhammeds fault actually.
 
2010-04-22 06:40:07 PM
VerbalKentt: olddinosaur: When they came to Israel 62 years ago, they found nothing--not even fresh water. The locals were living in mud huts along dirt roads, and using a hole in the back yard for a toilet.

Fast forward twenty years, and the Jews had built a whole modern nation with highways, hospitals and schools---but where were the locals? Same mud huts, same dirt roads; maybe the hole in the backyard filled up and they dug a new one.

These are all Hilal talking points for campus zionist...haha

-So by your logic the people were poor, didn't have much... "SO WE CAN TAKE IT"

/I hope Donald Trump knocks at your door


No sir, by your own logic and also by recorded history: The people were not merely poor, they had nothing to take; the Jews could not take anything which was not there, so they had to build everything they had for themselves.

There's an old Russian proverb: "If a man has two pigs and his neighbor only one, he would rather see the second pig die than grow another of his own."

Oy veh, these meshugginah goyim. . . . .

And if Donald Trump ever knocks at my door, I will break out my resume', show him what I can do, and ask him whether or not he would be interested in hiring me.
 
2010-04-22 06:57:27 PM
olddinosaur: When they came to Israel 62 years ago, they found nothing--not even fresh water. The locals were living in mud huts along dirt roads, and using a hole in the back yard for a toilet.

Absent Las Vegas-style technology, it would be physically impossible for people to live in such a place.
 
2010-04-22 07:00:19 PM
simpsonfan: Why do people hate the Jews?

When Jesus was around The Romans were in charge in the Holy Land. Jesus was stirring things up, which made local Jewish officials mad. Aside from orgies, the Romans liked order. They wanted things calm and peaceful. Hey, it's hard to get a good orgy going if people are rioting in the streets. So Jesus got crucified.

Over time, the Jews got the blame.

And if he had won the war, Hitler would have been able to exterminate all the Jews. With the Jews gone, he probably would have turned on anybody else not of the Master Race. Slavs, Russians, Africans, and Arabs.


Since I believe the Bible to be a work of fables and fiction, and I don't think Jesus was the son of God (or even maybe existed) so I don't have this hatred of Jewish people.

They just look like people to me. And around Passover they make Coca-Cola with real sugar. Thank You, Jews!
 
2010-04-22 07:18:25 PM
Ya, the UK of course denies their hand in islamic issues.

If, after WW1, they delivered the entire middle east to local rule as promised to Faisal, various other local leaders, and T.E. Lawrence much of the problems we have today in the middle east wouldn't exist.

The Allies stupidity with their victory WW1 is amazing. Whats ironic is that the US condemned this idiotic behavior strongly beliving this would result in another war in 20 years which it did.
 
2010-04-22 07:23:58 PM
Leeds: After last night's South Park, we should all learn the name of "Yousef al-Khattab"

He's the ass-pounding muzzie who threatened to murder Trey and Matt if they uttered the word Muhammed in last night's episode.

Seriously. Yousef al-Khattab, wherever you are- EAT A DICK.

P.S. Quote me, you fatwah launching, cock sucking, muzzie loser.


That post was Chock full of Farkin WIN!
 
2010-04-22 07:24:39 PM
Palooka_Joe: Islamic fundamentalism? All Hitler's fault

Maybe not so much


It actually started before he showed up. Its roots date to the 1880's in Mecca and Medina.

As far as modern Islamic Fundamentalism, it started with the opposition to the (exceedingly violent) Dutch occupation of Indonesia in the 30-50's. It was a guerrilla tool for fighting off a colonial power which had decided to secure its hold on an area by killing everyone it could.
 
2010-04-22 07:26:23 PM
Kanaric: If, after WW1, they delivered the entire middle east to local rule as promised to Faisal, various other local leaders, and T.E. Lawrence much of the problems we have today in the middle east wouldn't exist.

It should also be noted that Lawrence's map for the region (recently rediscovered in the Royal War Museum) was much more sensitive to ethnic and clan boundaries (for instance: the Kurds got their own nation) and would have led to much less strife in the region.
 
2010-04-22 07:29:27 PM
JustTheTip: I would have said that Sayyid Qutb was more responsible than Adolf Hitler, but what would I know?

Bingo.
 
2010-04-22 07:36:54 PM
1) Philosophy inherent in certain Islamic doctrines - Wahhabism, Salafism
2) Nationalism - Rise of Al-Saud dynasty in reaction to Ottoman Turks.
3) Perceived insult to Islam in fall of Ottoman Empire
4) Corrupting influence of oil demand and wealth.
5) Reaction to decadence of Western modernism.
6) Sympathy with Palestine.
7) Nazi propaganda.
8) Brzezinski doctrine - funding mujahideen
9) Influence of Sayyid Qutb
10) Internecine infiltration, mutual ferment and co-opt with Western intelligence. Related to #8

Take your pick. I say #4 is the grandaddy of all.
 
2010-04-22 07:46:23 PM
teh_idiot: 3) Perceived insult to Islam in fall of Ottoman Empire

I'd say there was nothing "perceived" about it: the British recalled Lawrence and told the Arabs they were going to get farked and like it at the end of WWI.
 
2010-04-22 07:49:41 PM
bachdog: chu2dogg: Of course, this thread wasn't about Israel, it was about hatred of Jews. You seemed content to combine the two.. wonder why?

ummm. i'm not an arab or muslim or christian nd I don't hate jews. someone asked for a painless synopsis, ones without vague references to crap like Jordan and other irrelevant crap

honestly, i don't care what happens in the middle east. but i'm tired of my tax dollars going to support israel and give them nukes when they are a religious state, something that goes against simple American principle


Umm... no you gave a loaded response. Once again, the majority of aid given to Israel is a result of the Camp David Accords, where we give aid to the Arab countries as well, primarily Egypt. We also fund the Palestinian authority. I suppose you're against this too? Why single out Israel?

/not christian, jew, or muslim
//just try to be factually accurate
 
2010-04-22 07:57:41 PM
chu2dogg: Umm... no you gave a loaded response. Once again, the majority of aid given to Israel is a result of the Camp David Accords, where we give aid to the Arab countries as well, primarily Egypt. We also fund the Palestinian authority. I suppose you're against this too? Why single out Israel?

1) Because we give a disproportionate amount of money to Isreal in "aide", more than we give any other country.

2) Most of this "aide" is used to allow them to buy the latest and greatest toys from the American military-industrial complex. If they want to defend themselves, they should be spending their own money, not ours. (This is actually Obama's position, as well, but you'll never hear him say it out loud, as he'd like to get re-elected).
 
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