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(AOL News)   Lawyer for David Kernell, who broke into Sarah Palin's Yahoo email, tells jury his client is allowed to commit felonies as long as he calls them pranks   (dailyfinance.com) divider line 241
    More: Unlikely, Democratic Rep, David Kernell, University of Tennessee, felony charges, wire fraud, Sarah Palin, McCain campaign, Tennessee  
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6223 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Apr 2010 at 11:08 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-04-21 12:27:03 PM  
A prosecutor told jurors that Kernell had hoped to derail the campaign for vice president done it for the lulz.
 
2010-04-21 12:28:45 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2010-04-21 12:29:07 PM  
tukatz: dadgummit

Bonus points for using this word.
 
2010-04-21 12:30:49 PM  
Supes: jst3p: I have been using yahoo for over a decade, care to tell me why I shouldn't? It has served me well so far, so I am genuinely curious what your reasoning is.

Try a little test. Go to this page. (new window)

Pretend you are a close friend, former colleague, or close relative of yourself, and for whatever reason you want to hack into jst3p's e-mail. Go through the process as that person would. At some point it'll probably ask you for some sort of identifying information or security question.

If this is something that a person who knows you well could guess, then you likely have a security issue.

/besides that, GMail is simply much better than Yahoo! mail.


As I said before, my security answers never have anything to do with the question. And the latter is an opinion (although I have both).
 
2010-04-21 12:30:51 PM  
Joey JoJo Junior Shabadoo: So if I guess my kid's password and monitor his messages I'm in violation of the law?

That depends on the jurisdiction. In some cases, your kid's stuff is technically your stuff (even if the kid is the primary user), and so guessing his password is "breaking into" your own account, which is not a crime.

In other cases, you can technically be in violation of the law, but good luck finding a jury willing to convict you.
 
2010-04-21 12:32:29 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: I didn't realize 'figuring out someone's password by typing in random stuff" constituted a felony. He didn't "hack" anything...she's just an idiot that didn't pick a good password.

You're not carrying enough guns when you leave your house in the morning, so you're just an idiot who deserves to get robbed.
 
2010-04-21 12:33:54 PM  
It was satire.

In other news, it's OK to sell out a CIA agent as long as it's time for reelection.
 
2010-04-21 12:33:56 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: I didn't realize 'figuring out someone's password by typing in random stuff" constituted a felony. He didn't "hack" anything...she's just an idiot that didn't pick a good password.

I hate to pick on you, but you make comments like this frequently. You should really pick a different username.
 
2010-04-21 12:34:17 PM  
DontMakeMeComeBackThere: ne2d: I love how they call "looking up Palin's high school mascot on Wikipedia" "hacking."

Sorry, but I could tell you my email password and it would stil be a crime to read my mail.


And how does that dispute his point since he was talking about looking up info about a person on wiki, which you nor anyone else could easily do, in fact some of her supporters have probably done it too.
 
2010-04-21 12:35:16 PM  
Burn_The_Plows: Two simple words: I forgot.

Let's say you're on trial for armed robbery, you say to the judge, "I forgot armed robbery was illegal."


"Ignorance of the law is no excuse" is one of the oldest maxims in common law. That argument is destined for failure.
 
2010-04-21 12:35:39 PM  
BigNumber12: ihatedumbpeople: I didn't realize 'figuring out someone's password by typing in random stuff" constituted a felony. He didn't "hack" anything...she's just an idiot that didn't pick a good password.

You're not carrying enough guns when you leave your house in the morning, so you're just an idiot who deserves to get robbed.


This! No one should ever be ridiculed for failing take precautions that mitigate risk. I built my house in a dry riverbed. Clearly, I am not an idiot.

/reverse reductio ad absurdum!
 
2010-04-21 12:36:03 PM  
Latinwolf:
And how does that dispute his point since he was talking about looking up info about a person on wiki, which you nor anyone else could easily do, in fact some of her supporters have probably done it too.


Don't be silly. Palin's supporters don't look stuff up.
 
2010-04-21 12:36:11 PM  
Just imagine the uproar on Fark if it was Obama's email broken in to. You people would have a charity set up to save your Savior's email from the evil George Bush!

Rubes
 
2010-04-21 12:38:12 PM  
jst3p: As I said before, my security answers never have anything to do with the question. And the latter is an opinion (although I have both).

Yeah I didn't notice you were the one who said that earlier.

Anyway, the vast majority of people have answers to their security questions that are not "second passwords" (as they should be).

Also try clicking on the "This is not my question" button below a security question, which actually allows you to access OLD security questions... which would be a problem for people who tried to switch to your method of answering security questions now. Another security flaw.

Now, if this isn't an issue for you, by all means use Yahoo mail. But it's a big enough issue for enough people that for for vast majority it's probably not smart to use their mail service. Basically most people aren't as smart as you.
 
2010-04-21 12:38:15 PM  
Thunderpipes: Just imagine the uproar on Fark if it was Obama's email broken in to. You people would have a charity set up to save your Savior's email from the evil George Bush!

Rubes


I like you. You're silly.
 
2010-04-21 12:38:46 PM  
Thunderpipes: Just imagine the uproar on Fark if it was Obama's email broken in to. You people would have a charity set up to save your Savior's email from the evil George Bush!

Rubes


Not like the folks who cheered the hacking of the Climate Research Unit's e-mail system, right?
 
2010-04-21 12:39:06 PM  
Thunderpipes: Just imagine the uproar on Fark if it was Obama's email broken in to. You people would have a charity set up to save your Savior's email from the evil George Bushiathat chicken has to be getting sore by now...
 
2010-04-21 12:42:01 PM  
Joey JoJo Junior Shabadoo: ZachF81: It is illegal to access someones email account without permission. That is outlined by law, actually.

So if I guess my kid's password and monitor his messages I'm in violation of the law?


Yes. And just in case you were unaware, it's illegal to take mail out of someone's mailbox, open it, read the letters, and then reseal the envelopes.

Oh, and by the way, trespassing, using someone else's PIN and a cloned card to check their balance at an ATM, setting up a video camera or listening device in someone's home without permission, and squatting are also crimes.
 
2010-04-21 12:42:16 PM  
Supes: jst3p: As I said before, my security answers never have anything to do with the question. And the latter is an opinion (although I have both).

Yeah I didn't notice you were the one who said that earlier.

Anyway, the vast majority of people have answers to their security questions that are not "second passwords" (as they should be).

Also try clicking on the "This is not my question" button below a security question, which actually allows you to access OLD security questions... which would be a problem for people who tried to switch to your method of answering security questions now. Another security flaw.

Now, if this isn't an issue for you, by all means use Yahoo mail. But it's a big enough issue for enough people that for for vast majority it's probably not smart to use their mail service. Basically most people aren't as smart as you.


Fair enough, but it looks like gmail works pretty much the same way...
 
2010-04-21 12:45:42 PM  
exparrot: Thunderpipes: Just imagine the uproar on Fark if it was Obama's email broken in to. You people would have a charity set up to save your Savior's email from the evil George Bush!

Rubes

I like you. You're silly.


Little too obvious a troll though.
 
2010-04-21 12:45:53 PM  
indylaw: Joey JoJo Junior Shabadoo: ZachF81: It is illegal to access someones email account without permission. That is outlined by law, actually.

So if I guess my kid's password and monitor his messages I'm in violation of the law?

Yes. And just in case you were unaware, it's illegal to take mail out of someone's mailbox, open it, read the letters, and then reseal the envelopes.

Oh, and by the way, trespassing, using someone else's PIN and a cloned card to check their balance at an ATM, setting up a video camera or listening device in someone's home without permission, and squatting are also crimes.


Ah, reading fail. I don't know the answer to that, so I'm going to say that it depends on the circumstances. If your kid is 23 and in college, yes, it's a crime. If your kid is 8, why does he have an e-mail account? If your kid is 15, I really don't know. It might be (but you might not be prosecuted for it).
 
2010-04-21 12:46:00 PM  
jst3p: Fair enough, but it looks like gmail works pretty much the same way...

Gmails interface is just nicer is all, the security clearances for both are pretty much one in the same.

Personally I have it set so password resets get texted to my phone, so I know if someone is trying to get into my account.
 
2010-04-21 12:47:58 PM  
Of course, the real story that nobody's talking about is that a 20 year-old UT undergrad (and 4chan /b/tard - that's the best part) is smarter than Sarah Palin.

She can't even handle a Yahoo! email account, and yet some people think it would be a good idea to trust HER with the launch codes? Really?
 
2010-04-21 12:49:43 PM  
IdBeCrazyIf: jst3p: Fair enough, but it looks like gmail works pretty much the same way...

Gmails interface is just nicer is all, the security clearances for both are pretty much one in the same.

Personally I have it set so password resets get texted to my phone, so I know if someone is trying to get into my account.


Yahoo does the same now.... just sayin.

As I said I use both but they seem like pretty equal products to me so I was curious why you would pick on yahoo. If I had to choose one or the other today I would go gmail but I have been using yahoo forever and have fi­r­st­*last[nospam-﹫-backwards]ooha­y*com and an alias for f.last(only first four)@yahoo.com linked to the same account so I find it hard to shoot it in the head.
 
2010-04-21 12:50:17 PM  
jst3p: Fair enough, but it looks like gmail works pretty much the same way...

Largely, but there are a few subtle (but very important) differences.

First and foremost, if you say you forget your password, GMail automatically sends an e-mail saying how to reset it to your backup e-mail. This will alert people someone is trying to get into their account.

Second, the password cannot be reset online via security question until the account has not been accessed for 24 hours. For most people I know, if this is their primary e-mail address, they will check it at least once every 24 hours (certainly not everyone, but most).

Basically, the thought is if GMail is your primary address you'll check it often enough it'll be almost impossible to reset the password online via question, and if it's your secondary the e-mail Google automatically sends to your primary address will alert you.

/still smart to use the security question as a second password
 
2010-04-21 12:50:38 PM  
Hubris Boy: Of course, the real story that nobody's talking about is that a 20 year-old UT undergrad (and 4chan /b/tard - that's the best part) is smarter than Sarah Palin.

I think that easily falls into the "not news" category :D
 
2010-04-21 12:50:39 PM  
Rapmaster2000: BigNumber12: ihatedumbpeople: I didn't realize 'figuring out someone's password by typing in random stuff" constituted a felony. He didn't "hack" anything...she's just an idiot that didn't pick a good password.

You're not carrying enough guns when you leave your house in the morning, so you're just an idiot who deserves to get robbed.

This! No one should ever be ridiculed for failing take precautions that mitigate risk. I built my house in a dry riverbed. Clearly, I am not an idiot.

/reverse reductio ad absurdum!


So not choosing a clever-enough password for your email account should grant immunity to anyone who intentionally breaks in, since 'you were just asking for it?' To return to an analogy used earlier, car door locks are antiquated technology, anyone with half a brain can bypass them and get into the car without much difficulty. I guess people who steal cars are just doing society a favor by exposing the idiots who didn't spring for an expensive aftermarket security system.
 
2010-04-21 12:51:01 PM  
Thunderpipes: Just imagine the uproar on Fark if it was Obama's email broken in to. You people would have a charity set up to save your Savior's email from the evil George Bush!

Rubes



Obama's email is probably snarky and enjoyable to read. Palin's email is most likely whiny and rambling.
 
2010-04-21 12:51:37 PM  
jst3p: Yahoo does the same now.... just sayin.

As I said I use both but they seem like pretty equal products to me so I was curious why you would pick on yahoo. If I had to choose one or the other today I would go gmail but I have been using yahoo forever and have first*last[nospam-﹫-backwards]oohay*com and an alias for f.last(only first four)@yahoo.com linked to the same account so I find it hard to shoot it in the head.


At this point its more of a personal preference, especially since yahoo added the ability to log into the chat without having to actually download the client.

I just use gmail for the fark google groups really though.
 
2010-04-21 12:52:02 PM  
Cat Food Sandwiches: It's really funny to read the weak attempts to say this was Palin's fault. Actually, it's kind of sad.

If you leave the keys in the door, it's partially your fault when the car gets stolen. Same rule applies. Notice how when I said that I never said it meant either the thief or the "hacker" weren't at fault? It is entirely possible for something dumb you did to result in you being taken advantage of.

indylaw: squatting are also crimes

Is not (necessarily).
 
2010-04-21 12:52:34 PM  
This is sort of like a burglar breaking into a house and finding a murdered person, then the police charging the burglar for breaking an entering while ignoring the body.
 
2010-04-21 12:55:06 PM  
BigNumber12: So not choosing a clever-enough password for your email account should grant immunity to anyone who intentionally breaks in, since 'you were just asking for it?

Sweet strawman dude. Why don't you try arguing with actual statements?
 
2010-04-21 12:55:08 PM  
thurstonxhowell:
indylaw: squatting are also crimes

Is not (necessarily).


There might be exceptions depending on the state. All of those criminal statutes have wiggle room. Shooting someone in the face isn't (necessarily) a crime, if it's done in self-defense or is a reasonable accident.
 
2010-04-21 12:57:10 PM  
BigNumber12: Rapmaster2000: BigNumber12: ihatedumbpeople: I didn't realize 'figuring out someone's password by typing in random stuff" constituted a felony. He didn't "hack" anything...she's just an idiot that didn't pick a good password.

You're not carrying enough guns when you leave your house in the morning, so you're just an idiot who deserves to get robbed.

This! No one should ever be ridiculed for failing take precautions that mitigate risk. I built my house in a dry riverbed. Clearly, I am not an idiot.

/reverse reductio ad absurdum!

So not choosing a clever-enough password for your email account should grant immunity to anyone who intentionally breaks in, since 'you were just asking for it?' To return to an analogy used earlier, car door locks are antiquated technology, anyone with half a brain can bypass them and get into the car without much difficulty. I guess people who steal cars are just doing society a favor by exposing the idiots who didn't spring for an expensive aftermarket security system.


Idiocy and legality are not mutually exclusive. And before you finish college, I suggest you take a course in logical fallacies. You need the work.
 
2010-04-21 12:58:08 PM  
indylaw: thurstonxhowell:
indylaw: squatting are also crimes

Is not (necessarily).

There might be exceptions depending on the state. All of those criminal statutes have wiggle room. Shooting someone in the face isn't (necessarily) a crime, if it's done in self-defense or is a reasonable accident.


Or if you are Dick Cheney.
 
2010-04-21 12:58:33 PM  
Stacking naked Arabs is a prank - guessing her password was sarah1234 is really more of a meh.
 
2010-04-21 12:58:47 PM  
Philip Francis Queeg: indylaw: thurstonxhowell:
indylaw: squatting are also crimes

Is not (necessarily).

There might be exceptions depending on the state. All of those criminal statutes have wiggle room. Shooting someone in the face isn't (necessarily) a crime, if it's done in self-defense or is a reasonable accident.

Or if you are Dick Cheney.


Thread over.
 
2010-04-21 12:59:40 PM  
w_houle: So raping a clown is legal?

No but raping AS a clown is.

/fine line...
 
2010-04-21 01:00:08 PM  
indylaw: thurstonxhowell:
indylaw: squatting are also crimes

Is not (necessarily).

There might be exceptions depending on the state. All of those criminal statutes have wiggle room. Shooting someone in the face isn't (necessarily) a crime, if it's done in self-defense or is a reasonable accident.


I know, I know, I've just been to way too many punk shows in squats on the Lower East Side to just let that go by unchallenged. I'm still amazed with how all that worked out.
 
2010-04-21 01:00:12 PM  
indylaw: indylaw: Joey JoJo Junior Shabadoo: ZachF81: It is illegal to access someones email account without permission. That is outlined by law, actually.

So if I guess my kid's password and monitor his messages I'm in violation of the law?

Yes. And just in case you were unaware, it's illegal to take mail out of someone's mailbox, open it, read the letters, and then reseal the envelopes.

Oh, and by the way, trespassing, using someone else's PIN and a cloned card to check their balance at an ATM, setting up a video camera or listening device in someone's home without permission, and squatting are also crimes.

Ah, reading fail. I don't know the answer to that, so I'm going to say that it depends on the circumstances. If your kid is 23 and in college, yes, it's a crime. If your kid is 8, why does he have an e-mail account? If your kid is 15, I really don't know. It might be (but you might not be prosecuted for it).


Second Amended Response

I looked at the unauthorized access statute: 18 USC 2701. There is no stated exception for parents looking at the e-mail account of their minor child. That said, if you were ever prosecuted for it, you might be able to argue that you have implied authority to check it. To cover your ass, you could just tell your kid that he or she can have internet access as long as they give you the passwords to their accounts. If they don't, or you find out they lied to you about the accounts, take the computer away or lock them out of the system. That's not perfect (he or she might have an account they can access at school or a friend's house), but it puts you on tricky legal ground if you hack your way in.
 
2010-04-21 01:00:24 PM  
jst3p: I have been using yahoo for over a decade, care to tell me why I shouldn't? It has served me well so far, so I am genuinely curious what your reasoning is.

Back when I used yahoo email a decade ago it was filled with spam because they gave out your address to crap places it had a small box size until gmail came out and it looks ridiculous to official places. I'm sorry but it is what it is, when I get job applicants and it says "email: ____­[nospam-﹫-backwards]o­oha­y*co­m or ____[nospam-﹫-backwards]l­iamtoh*com" it seems less professional. Of course, even worse is when it's something retarded like "h­o­tchi­ck­69[nospam-﹫-backwards]oohay*co­m" rather than "y­o­u­r­name­[nospam-﹫-backwards]oohay­*com"
 
2010-04-21 01:01:44 PM  
If they have no business being there, then someone did brake into your car after you left the keys in the door.

please, do not use rational thought when debating liberals.
it makes their brains explode.
by this zipper head's logic, it's OK if I take her bike outside the grocery mart if she didn't lock it up securely.
I guess this formula is why it makes illegal immigrants somehow justified for being here.
 
2010-04-21 01:02:22 PM  
Philip Francis Queeg: indylaw: thurstonxhowell:
indylaw: squatting are also crimes

Is not (necessarily).

There might be exceptions depending on the state. All of those criminal statutes have wiggle room. Shooting someone in the face isn't (necessarily) a crime, if it's done in self-defense or is a reasonable accident.

Or if you are Dick Cheney.


That's actually what I was thinking about with the "reasonable accident" comment, but decided to take the high road. But yes, if it's a hunting accident, or your friend is willing to tell the police it was a hunting accident, you're good.
 
2010-04-21 01:02:34 PM  
Philip Francis Queeg: Most think those emails were released by an insider, a mole if you will. Besides the emails in question came off a public server paid for with public money and are subject to UK FOIA laws.

So not the same at all really.

Not like the folks who cheered the hacking of the Climate Research Unit's e-mail system, right?
 
2010-04-21 01:02:43 PM  
thurstonxhowell: BigNumber12: So not choosing a clever-enough password for your email account should grant immunity to anyone who intentionally breaks in, since 'you were just asking for it?

Sweet strawman dude. Why don't you try arguing with actual statements?


Rapmaster2000: BigNumber12: Rapmaster2000: BigNumber12: ihatedumbpeople: I didn't realize 'figuring out someone's password by typing in random stuff" constituted a felony. He didn't "hack" anything...she's just an idiot that didn't pick a good password.

You're not carrying enough guns when you leave your house in the morning, so you're just an idiot who deserves to get robbed.

This! No one should ever be ridiculed for failing take precautions that mitigate risk. I built my house in a dry riverbed. Clearly, I am not an idiot.

/reverse reductio ad absurdum!

So not choosing a clever-enough password for your email account should grant immunity to anyone who intentionally breaks in, since 'you were just asking for it?' To return to an analogy used earlier, car door locks are antiquated technology, anyone with half a brain can bypass them and get into the car without much difficulty. I guess people who steal cars are just doing society a favor by exposing the idiots who didn't spring for an expensive aftermarket security system.

Idiocy and legality are not mutually exclusive. And before you finish college, I suggest you take a course in logical fallacies. You need the work.


If people seem to be missing what I consider to be a relatively simple point, I'll dumb it down in hopes that they'll eventually catch on. "...finish college..." - nice ad hominem. Engineering majors weren't required to take any English classes, so I apologize if my knowledge of logical fallacies comes from Wikipedia.

The point of a password to any sort of online account is twofold:
1) To discourage the 'casual browser' - i.e. keep 99% of people from accessing your personal information.
2) To show malicious intent if someone does break in - i.e. to invalidate the "oops, I accidentally opened the wrong email account and found all of Ms. Palin's emails." It demonstrates that you put effort into accessing someone else's property.

Clear and literal enough?
 
2010-04-21 01:03:34 PM  
Supes: jst3p: Fair enough, but it looks like gmail works pretty much the same way...

Largely, but there are a few subtle (but very important) differences.

First and foremost, if you say you forget your password, GMail automatically sends an e-mail saying how to reset it to your backup e-mail. This will alert people someone is trying to get into their account.


So does yahoo.


Second, the password cannot be reset online via security question until the account has not been accessed for 24 hours. For most people I know, if this is their primary e-mail address, they will check it at least once every 24 hours (certainly not everyone, but most).


OK, you got me there. That one is a pretty valid and significant difference.
 
2010-04-21 01:04:42 PM  
ilgallo: If they have no business being there, then someone did brake into your car after you left the keys in the door.

please, do not use rational thought when debating liberals.
it makes their brains explode.
by this zipper head's logic, it's OK if I take her bike outside the grocery mart if she didn't lock it up securely.
I guess this formula is why it makes illegal immigrants somehow justified for being here.


Rational thought? This from a Palinite? That's amazing.

She believes that taxing oil wells and distributing the proceeds to Alaskans is not at all socialism, and that real demons possess human beings.
 
2010-04-21 01:05:12 PM  
Rapmaster2000: Idiocy and legality are not mutually exclusive.

Granted. But several people in here seem to be using their preexisting disdain for Sarah Palin as a reason to decide that "she deserved it."
 
2010-04-21 01:06:21 PM  
BigNumber12: Engineering majors weren't required to take any English classes

Nice, well-rounded education you got there, Lou.
 
2010-04-21 01:06:34 PM  
tufty: Philip Francis Queeg: Most think those emails were released by an insider, a mole if you will. Besides the emails in question came off a public server paid for with public money and are subject to UK FOIA laws.

So not the same at all really.

Not like the folks who cheered the hacking of the Climate Research Unit's e-mail system, right?


Oh, so it would have been OK if the guy hacked Palin's Government e-mail account?
 
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