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(Huffington Post)   Transportation secretary declares bicycles as equals to other transportation modes, such as cars, trucks and your mom   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 422
    More: Asinine, mode of transport, National Association of Manufacturers, United States Department of Transportation, high-speed trains, pedals, bike paths, gasoline taxes, urban planners  
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8174 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Apr 2010 at 11:48 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-04-14 10:50:18 AM
So people on bikes have to buy tags and pay taxes now?
 
2010-04-14 10:59:16 AM
Here comes another epic thread.

/epically boring
 
2010-04-14 11:49:49 AM
Just stay the **** off my sidewalks and we're good.
 
2010-04-14 11:49:55 AM
I predict this will be a calm and rational discussion, with no slurs, wharrgarbl, or name calling.

That aside, does that mean cyclists have to follow the farking rules of the road now?
 
Biv
2010-04-14 11:50:47 AM
jehovahs witness protection: So people on bikes have to buy tags and pay taxes now?

That would be great. Seattle would collapse in a sea of butthurt.
 
2010-04-14 11:51:50 AM
can I drive on the sidewalk legally now?
 
2010-04-14 11:52:52 AM
Barges can move 1 ton of cargo 576 miles for the same amount of fuel as it takes a rail car to carry the same amount of cargo 413 miles, and a truck to haul it 155 miles.

We should be getting away from trucks to haul goods.
 
2010-04-14 11:53:27 AM
jehovahs witness protection: So people on bikes have to buy tags and pay taxes now?

Sure, proportional to environmental impact, and wear and tear on infrastructure. Plus your normal fees. Pulling a number out of my hat, say 1/4.
 
2010-04-14 11:55:05 AM
Newsflash: Things can be equal without being the same.

I drive, but I think this is long overdue. It's ridiculous that transportation planning has focused so much on cars and trucks for nearly a century. Make it easier to get around by foot or on a bike and the need for many of those cars and trucks goes away.

North Americans could learn a lot about efficient transportation from Europe and Asia.
 
2010-04-14 11:55:30 AM
Coming next: Roller skates, Skateboards, Shoes...
 
2010-04-14 11:55:48 AM
jehovahs witness protection: So people on bikes have to buy tags and pay taxes now?

In some places they already do, and have had to for decades. What's the big deal?

I don't really see what all the fuss is about. Bikes are already granted the same rights (and responsibilities, which most bikers ignore) as cars on surface streets. Planning transportation for bikes as well would probably result in slightly wider streets with the extra width being used for a bike lane. In other words, that dude on the Schwinn will no longer be scooting a quarter inch from your expensive car when he passes you.
 
2010-04-14 11:55:59 AM
gregfark: jehovahs witness protection: So people on bikes have to buy tags and pay taxes now?

Sure, proportional to environmental impact, and wear and tear on infrastructure. Plus your normal fees. Pulling a number out of my hat, say 1/4.


You forgot to add in the smugness factor.
 
Biv
2010-04-14 11:56:03 AM
Bikes are not transportation. They are exercise machines, toys and hobbies for the pretentious.
 
2010-04-14 11:56:04 AM
Headso: Barges can move 1 ton of cargo 576 miles for the same amount of fuel as it takes a rail car to carry the same amount of cargo 413 miles, and a truck to haul it 155 miles.

We should be getting away from trucks to haul goods.


Unless your plan involves an elaborate set of canals from the nearest waterway to my local shopping mall, I dont see how this would work. Shipping/Rail/Trucking are not exclusive methods of material transport, they work in harmony with each other.
 
2010-04-14 11:56:33 AM
TsukasaK: does that mean cyclists have to follow the farking rules of the road now?

No Wai, it just takes too much effort to get going again.... so they need not stop.
 
2010-04-14 11:57:30 AM
I am Ahab: You forgot to add in the smugness factor.

It's harder to put bumper stickers and Apple logos on a bike than it is a Prius.. so I think the cars still have a slight edge in smug emissions.
 
2010-04-14 11:57:54 AM
So is this the thread where drivers who don't know the rules of the road and don't follow them biatch about cyclists who do know the rules of the road and don't follow them?
 
2010-04-14 11:57:59 AM
BunkoSquad: Just stay the **** off my sidewalks and we're good.

And stay the **** off my streets while their at it....spandex wearing, traffic causing asswipes - every last one of 'em.
 
2010-04-14 11:58:13 AM
aninconvenienterection: Headso: Barges can move 1 ton of cargo 576 miles for the same amount of fuel as it takes a rail car to carry the same amount of cargo 413 miles, and a truck to haul it 155 miles.

We should be getting away from trucks to haul goods.

Unless your plan involves an elaborate set of canals from the nearest waterway to my local shopping mall, I dont see how this would work. Shipping/Rail/Trucking are not exclusive methods of material transport, they work in harmony with each other.


yeah, me either as you point out, the only way possible for us to lower our reliance on truck transportation would be to build canals everywhere.
 
2010-04-14 11:58:16 AM
Headso: Barges can move 1 ton of cargo 576 miles for the same amount of fuel as it takes a rail car to carry the same amount of cargo 413 miles, and a truck to haul it 155 miles.

We should be getting away from trucks to haul goods.


That's all well and good if you live by a large enough waterway, but it has to get to the stores somehow, so truck hauling is not going away.
 
2010-04-14 12:00:10 PM
Headso: Barges can move 1 ton of cargo 576 miles for the same amount of fuel as it takes a rail car to carry the same amount of cargo 413 miles, and a truck to haul it 155 miles.

We should be getting away from trucks to haul goods.


Good luck convincing the teamsters, AFL-CIO, and UAW of that one. You'd end up in the other endzone of the meadownlands
 
2010-04-14 12:00:41 PM
So this should encourage people to walk and bike where they're going. That, in turn, should lower pollution in the cities, and help with traffic. People who bike and walk get more options, people who drive get where they're going faster; and we all get cleaner cities. Why are we supposed to be angry about this?
 
Biv
2010-04-14 12:01:08 PM
bravian: So is this the thread where drivers who don't know the rules of the road and don't follow them biatch about cyclists who do know the rules of the road and don't follow them?

Drivers, at least, understand the concept of a red light.

Just a few weeks ago I saw one of Seattle's sea of bikes. 50-75 bikes ignoring all traffic laws, jamming up traffic, tearing through red lights and just daring cars to hit them. Right in the middle of rush hour, too.
 
2010-04-14 12:01:12 PM
bravian: So is this the thread where drivers who don't know the rules of the road and don't follow them biatch about cyclists who do know the rules of the road and don't follow them?

You mean the ones who drive over the speed limit, do california stops, hog the left lane, fail to use turn signals, run reds, etc?

Yup, that's the one. Though I have to give the cyclists a slightly higher annoyance score for knowing the rules and choosing not to follow them, rather than just not knowing them.

/kidding
//sort of
 
2010-04-14 12:02:17 PM
jehovahs witness protection: So people on bikes have to buy tags and pay taxes now?

Don't forget liability insurance.
 
2010-04-14 12:02:28 PM
Headso: Barges can move 1 ton of cargo 576 miles for the same amount of fuel as it takes a rail car to carry the same amount of cargo 413 miles, and a truck to haul it 155 miles.

We should be getting away from trucks to haul goods.


It's about 5,300 miles from Sacramento, CA to Richmond, VA. Considering you'd be going against current, sending cargo by ship would cost about $17 billion more per year nationwide than shipping by truck.
 
2010-04-14 12:04:35 PM
Why this at the FEDERAL level? That's supposed to be interstate commerce, right? Is there a whole lot of interstate commerce done by bike?
 
2010-04-14 12:04:42 PM
Is this the thread where the lazy fat-asses get all defensive "yore trying to taking away my SUV!!!!"

/ like the vegetarian threads "yore tryna take away muh meat!1!!"
// and the religion threads "yore imposing yore atheistical oppression on mee!1!!!"
 
2010-04-14 12:05:12 PM
Saw some Iron Man trainees get pummeled by a car a few summers ago. Both bikers blew through a stop sign. Iron Man dreams OVER in one second of "I don't have to follow the rules, I'm on a bike" smugness. Didn't die which was good but did not compete due to injuries. Bikes have the same rules as cars. Pains me everytime I see a biker blow through a light or stop sign.
/not anti-bike
//just wish they understood the rules a bit better.
///tire slashies
 
2010-04-14 12:06:57 PM
themixtapemonster.files.wordpress.com

nothing like a calm reasoned debate involving bicycles, people who ride them, and people who hit them.
 
2010-04-14 12:07:20 PM
Biking should be reasonably simple. On a sidewalk/college campus? Don't go so fast you run into pedestrians (in other words, be in control of your vehicle for the conditions). On a road? OBEY THE DAMNED TRAFFIC LAWS. Red lights, stop signs, and one-way signs apply to you, too.
 
2010-04-14 12:07:30 PM
jehovahs witness protection: So people on bikes have to buy tags and pay taxes now?

Which I do. On my car(s). And I pay taxes too. What's your point? You assume that if someone rides a bike they clearly don't have a car or pay taxes.
 
2010-04-14 12:07:32 PM
BunkoSquad: Just stay the **** off my sidewalks and we're good.

I find this hilarious. This weekend, I saw some guy in an SUV yelling at the cyclist in front of him, "Get on the farkin sidewalk!!"


There's a very easy solution:
Be considerate. Ride wherever is appropriate for the speed your are traveling and the density of road/pedestrian traffic.
 
2010-04-14 12:07:59 PM
Headso: Barges can move 1 ton of cargo 576 miles for the same amount of fuel as it takes a rail car to carry the same amount of cargo 413 miles, and a truck to haul it 155 miles.

We should be getting away from trucks to haul goods.


Do you realize that barges are limited to moving goods by water (rivers, lakes, ocean), while rail can by laid anywhere on land as long as the ground is stable and flat enough? Also, Trains can only go where the tracks are laid, where a truck is limited to roadways.

Yes, it's more efficient (per mile) to transport goods by boat than by rail or truck. That efficiency depends on how the goods are getting from place to place.

For example, Seattle to Minneapolis by sea is a far greater distance than by rail or road. The increased per-mile efficiency of shipping goods down the Pacific coast, through the Panama Canal, up the Atlantic coast into the Gulf of Mexico and up the Mississippi to Minneapolis (about 6,750 miles) is lost when you factor in how much shorter the rail line is (about 1,800 miles)

So to ship a ton of goods by ship would use about 2.7 times the fuel used by a train to ship that ton of goods.

In fact, using a ship would be about the same efficiency as by truck (assuming the truck travels about the same distance as the train).
 
2010-04-14 12:08:00 PM
jaytkay
Is this the thread where the lazy fat-asses get all defensive "yore trying to taking away my SUV!!!!"


Hey now, some of us cyclist also own a big ass SUV like me

i791.photobucket.com

/Hot
 
2010-04-14 12:08:55 PM
Popcorn time.
 
2010-04-14 12:09:00 PM
Headso: Barges can move 1 ton of cargo 576 miles for the same amount of fuel as it takes a rail car to carry the same amount of cargo 413 miles, and a truck to haul it 155 miles.

We should be getting away from trucks to haul goods.


Cause a barge can float right up to a rural walmart.

Durr
 
2010-04-14 12:09:12 PM
I hate people who walk in the road when there is a sidewalk for them.
 
2010-04-14 12:09:28 PM
I never have understood the anti-bicycle crowd. Bicycles take up only a tiny fraction of the space a car uses and create no noise or pollution. They don't require vast oceans of pavement for parking lots, nor do they require expensive parking garages. Obviously they're not practical for all our transportation needs, but for shorter distances they are ideal.

Just yesterday my son rode his bike to school, then to the dentist, and then to baseball practice. No one had to pick him up and haul him around in a minivan or gigantic SUV. In the process, he got some good exercise and also acted independently in a way that no child who relies on his or her parents to haul him around town can. He is learning to be responsible by getting to school on time, locking his bike, keeping track of his helmet during the day, and finding his way around without any help. And he's only eight years old.

If you think this makes me "smug," then clearly you're bringing an awful lot of baggage into this discussion. If you resent all this or it angers you for some reason, you need to look at yourself, not me and my son.
 
2010-04-14 12:09:30 PM
I'll slow down for cyclists, mainly because I dont' trust them. But you bike-riding farkers should remember that even if you have the right-of-way that doesn't change physics. So my car is bigger, meaner, and hits harder. So while yes I'm looking out for you guys, don't forget to look out for cars too.
 
2010-04-14 12:10:00 PM
o5iiawah: Headso: Barges can move 1 ton of cargo 576 miles for the same amount of fuel as it takes a rail car to carry the same amount of cargo 413 miles, and a truck to haul it 155 miles.

We should be getting away from trucks to haul goods.

Good luck convincing the teamsters, AFL-CIO, and UAW of that one. You'd end up in the other endzone of the meadownlands


What is there to convince? It's pure economics. Trucks have relatively low mobilization costs but high mileage costs compared to rail and barge, which have high mobilization costs but low mileage costs. For short hauls, trucks retain an advantage, but once you are shipping longer distances, rail and barge become more appropriate. It's also sensitive to the type of goods being hauled...rail and barge aren't as responsive to schedules as trucks are (through they are getting better).
 
2010-04-14 12:10:07 PM
FTFA: LaHood's blog was accompanied by a DOT policy statement urging states and transportation agencies to treat "walking and bicycling as equals with other transportation modes." It recommends, among other things, including biking and walking lanes on bridges and clearing snow from bike paths.


So they want to build more and better bike paths to separate bicycles from car traffic. This addresses the biggest complaint I hear about cyclists, who would otherwise be legally taking an entire lane.

Angry? You'll get over it. And probably end up liking it in time.


/ Rode to work.
// Stopped at stop signs.
 
2010-04-14 12:10:16 PM
gregfark: jehovahs witness protection: So people on bikes have to buy tags and pay taxes now?

Sure, proportional to environmental impact, and wear and tear on infrastructure. Plus your normal fees. Pulling a number out of my hat, say 1/4.


So here in Nebraska, a new bike owner would be ponying up $50-$70/year... More if it's an off-road bike.

Dunno how well THAT would go over.

Loved in TFA they mention this being supported by the League of American Bicyclists, with 300,000 affiliated members... all .001% (approx)of the population.

Meanwhile we have over 254 million passenger motor vehicles in a country of just over 300 million.

/Looks for the WD-40 for the squeaky bike wheel
 
2010-04-14 12:10:55 PM
I just wrote a letter to my local rag about cyclists and cars and how cyclists need to obey traffic rules and that it drives me crazy to see them not doing it.

Fark: I'm an avid cyclist, putting in 1000's of miles a year. Yes I have a car. Yes I pay gas taxes. Yes, I follow the rules.

/can't stand idiot cyclists
//going to get popcorn
///suck it, haters
//slashies.
 
2010-04-14 12:11:44 PM
JohnAnnArbor: Biking should be reasonably simple. On a sidewalk/college campus? Don't go so fast you run into pedestrians (in other words, be in control of your vehicle for the conditions). On a road? OBEY THE DAMNED TRAFFIC LAWS. Red lights, stop signs, and one-way signs apply to you, too.

They'd rather just scream at you for being in the way, like the douchebags at Golden Gate Park that act like the walking trails are their god given bicycle path of reckless careening pedestrian death
 
2010-04-14 12:12:13 PM
Biv: bravian: So is this the thread where drivers who don't know the rules of the road and don't follow them biatch about cyclists who do know the rules of the road and don't follow them?

Drivers, at least, understand the concept of a red light.


Not always - around the DC area, you wait 5 sec. or so after a green. sometimes some gas-powered toughguy guns through the red.

Just a few weeks ago I saw one of Seattle's sea of bikes. 50-75 bikes ignoring all traffic laws, jamming up traffic, tearing through red lights and just daring cars to hit them. Right in the middle of rush hour, too.


Then they should be cited. Why didn't you call the police?
 
2010-04-14 12:13:12 PM
Ashtrey: I'll slow down for cyclists, mainly because I dont' trust them. But you bike-riding farkers should remember that even if you have the right-of-way that doesn't change physics. So my car is bigger, meaner, and hits harder. So while yes I'm looking out for you guys, don't forget to look out for cars too.

Motorcyclists generally understand this, but bicyclists don't. It's strange
 
2010-04-14 12:13:12 PM
The Dog Ate My Homework: I never have understood the anti-bicycle crowd. Bicycles take up only a tiny fraction of the space a car uses and create no noise or pollution. They don't require vast oceans of pavement for parking lots, nor do they require expensive parking garages. Obviously they're not practical for all our transportation needs, but for shorter distances they are ideal.

Just yesterday my son rode his bike to school, then to the dentist, and then to baseball practice. No one had to pick him up and haul him around in a minivan or gigantic SUV. In the process, he got some good exercise and also acted independently in a way that no child who relies on his or her parents to haul him around town can. He is learning to be responsible by getting to school on time, locking his bike, keeping track of his helmet during the day, and finding his way around without any help. And he's only eight years old.

If you think this makes me "smug," then clearly you're bringing an awful lot of baggage into this discussion. If you resent all this or it angers you for some reason, you need to look at yourself, not me and my son.


I like how you're bringing up your son. Good jorb.
 
2010-04-14 12:13:27 PM
Ashtrey: I'll slow down for cyclists, mainly because I dont' trust them. But you bike-riding farkers should remember that even if you have the right-of-way that doesn't change physics. So my car is bigger, meaner, and hits harder. So while yes I'm looking out for you guys, don't forget to look out for cars too.

Yeah, I always assume when I'm driving that the biker will do the dumbest thing possible with no regard for self-preservation. Just yesterday I had one turn left in front of me suddenly; I had to jam on the brakes. No signal (bikers who DO signal ROCK). Just an assumption that darting right in front of two tons of moving steel wasn't a bad idea.
 
2010-04-14 12:13:34 PM
NikolaiFarkoff: Here comes another epic thread.
/epically boring


I'll just post my funny bike picture, instead.

img235.imageshack.us
 
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