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(VOA News)   Enron and MCI file to get back overpaid taxes on overstated earnings   ( divider line
    More: Asinine  
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2775 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 May 2003 at 8:57 PM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

181 Comments     (+0 »)

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2003-05-02 07:22:51 PM  
Urge to kill... rising...
2003-05-02 08:41:06 PM  
<----What a tool!
2003-05-02 08:46:33 PM  
... and they are entitled to get back their overpaid taxes.

they fudged the numbers to screw over their shareholders and their lenders, not the government.

according to tax law, a taxpayer is only required to pay tax on earned income. so since they never earned the income, they didn't have an obligation to pay the tax.

sounds absurd considering these companies committed fraud, but they're legally entitled to a refund.
2003-05-02 08:59:17 PM  
I have to side with both WhoIsPurpleGoo and B0rg9 on this one.
2003-05-02 09:00:40 PM  
Is this Asinine day?
2003-05-02 09:02:03 PM  
I thought companies couldn't get any lower.
2003-05-02 09:03:46 PM  
Not to start acting all psychopathic or anything but shouldn't there be some snipers out there ready to take out these greedy CEO's.
2003-05-02 09:04:43 PM  
Legally it is their money, but that doesn't mean that they deserve it. I would be alot happier if they used the money to help all the employees that they screwed over. That is very unlikely though.
2003-05-02 09:05:21 PM  
Well, it actually makes it sense and it is the right thing to do. Enron is gone, it's history that refund is already spoken for by the creditors. I don't see the problem with putting more money back into the pot to be doled out to all the creditors and victims they screwed.

The only other option is to leave it with the government. What are they going to do with it? Pay down the defecit or use that $300 million to go kick Cuba's ass really damn fast?
2003-05-02 09:05:32 PM  
As asinine as this may seem, it's legally allowed and it may actually benefit some people. Enron, for example, is in the process of liquidizing in order to pay off some of the money owed to creditors. If they're able to recoup some overpaid taxes, the creditors may, in turn, see more of a return in what they're owed.
2003-05-02 09:06:08 PM  
Crap. What Stoke said.
2003-05-02 09:06:11 PM  
Nice work B0rg9 :)
2003-05-02 09:09:08 PM  
Borg9, that was awesome.
2003-05-02 09:09:15 PM  
Here's another (more detailed) article.
2003-05-02 09:10:24 PM  
Legal, schmegal... where do you think this money is coming from and where do you think it's going to go?

This means higher taxes for the rest of us, going to pay off the big business buddies that lost out. The consumer/joe taxpayer is losing AGAIN.
2003-05-02 09:10:57 PM  
President Bush is already giving the wealthiest few in th country another huge handout in the form of his ridiculous tax (on the ultra-wealthy) cut. Now they want more? Greedy bastards! I say lynch them all and use their assets to pay off the national debt!
2003-05-02 09:11:04 PM  
And who will be footing the bill for these corrupt companies? Why, the honest hard-working lower-class taxpayers of course!

Think about it: government gives back money, needs quick inflow of cash, overtaxes lower-class to fill in the gap.

Didn't someone once say our economy was based on the assumption that America had unlimited funds or something? That could explain why we keep invading 3rd world countries and stealing their resources.
2003-05-02 09:11:11 PM  
should be
[image from too old to be available]
2003-05-02 09:13:06 PM  
We need a new topic icon, like [BULLshiat]
2003-05-02 09:13:15 PM  
It may be legal, but is it right?

Did they in fact pay these taxes or was it a bunch of accounting and credits?

Crooks and Govt. bastages, in league with one another.

/waits for the collapse of civilization so he can say "I told you so".
2003-05-02 09:13:41 PM  
You people amaze me. What do you dweebs think is going to happen to refunds - the Board of Directors will be lighting their cigars with hundred dollar bills? No, it'll go toward mitigating some of the damages to ordinary people, like shareholders and suppliers. And even with the huge sums involved, it'll still be small recompense because of the swatch of destruction caused by these outfits.
2003-05-02 09:15:28 PM  
Jjorsett: lighting their cigars with hundred dollar bills
Well, at least they'll be decreasing inflation!
2003-05-02 09:16:02 PM  
Actually, the solution in this case might be to drastically increase the penalties to all related top executives for huge tax inaccuracies (and grandfather it back so that it will affect these criminals) and enhance stockholder ability and incentive to force accurate tax reporting. Bankrupting out country even more might be worth it so long as we know that numerous top white collar criminals are getting ass-raped in prison for the rest of their lives.
2003-05-02 09:18:40 PM  
Wow, some of you idiots really have no idea of how taxes work. First of all, $300 million is NOT a lot to the government. That's maybe a while dollar per person. Secondly, it everyone doesn't pay the same amount in taxes. Realisticly, maybe $0.10 of the average tax payers income tax would go towards recovering the $300 million. The wealthiest taxpayers, who AREN'T GETTING HUGE HANDOUTS (yes, I'm talking to you, Subversive), actually end up paying substantially more. Consider the fact that the average person who makes 50k pays 13% (approximately) in income taxes. Someone who makes $1,000,000 pays about 50% (approximately) in income taxes. Who's getting screwed again?

Exactly when did it become immoral to earn more money? Also, why should those people be forced to pay 40% more of their income to the government?

Vote Flat Tax!
wil [TotalFark]
2003-05-02 09:20:21 PM  
Dear Enron,

fark you.


2003-05-02 09:21:21 PM  
Dear Enron,

fark you.



Yeah, same here !

Good one on ya Wil...
2003-05-02 09:23:16 PM  

a flat tax doesn't work because the value of a dollar for someone earning $1,000 is far greater than a dollar for someone earning $1,000,000. so in essence, a lower earning individual, bears a greater tax burden, even though the tax is equitable.
2003-05-02 09:24:02 PM  
Well, ENRON is toast. But MCI/Worldcom has a chance to recover. If I were in the same position, I would try every trick in the book to get the balance sheet back in the black. But then again, I'm a cheap SOB.
2003-05-02 09:24:44 PM  
Many thousands of people lost their life savings and retirement funds from the sleazeball crimes of these fat cats. Now they're taking our money too! Robbing Uncle Sam's bankroll (probably need fresh paint on their yachts).

I agree with the Farker who called for snipers.
2003-05-02 09:26:27 PM  
Too long. Did not read. Please make shorter.

2003-05-02 09:26:55 PM  

The wealthy can afford it. Maybe if they lived in the same conditions as your typical middle-class family rather than in giant 100 room mansions with 5 cars, a private yach, and monthly vacations to Bermuda, they wouldn't require such HUGE tax cuts that end up bankrupting the entire country and making it difficult for those of us who actually *work* for our money instead of just leeching off corperate profits.

Just because you make more money doesn't mean you get to live outside your means.
2003-05-02 09:28:03 PM  
right, well im off to find a cave to live in until society destroys itself with its own stupidity. legal or not, i hope theres a nice cold place in hell for some of these corporate executives.
2003-05-02 09:28:13 PM  
WhoIsPurpleGoo: Who cares what the value of the dollar is? Why should I pay 40% income tax, not counting capital gains or taxes on dividends, just because I'm successful? That's total crap.
2003-05-02 09:28:42 PM  
First of all, WhoIsPurpleGoo, you're right. The flat tax would never work, but I still love the idea. It wouldn't work, however, because the government gets 90% of its tax income from 5% of the taxpayers. If everyone paid only 17% in income tax, the government would essentially go bankrupt (not that it isn't already).

However, your analysis isn't very sound. If the individual making $1000 pays, for arguements sake, 5%, then their tax contribution is $50. The individual making $1,000,000 pays $50,000. Both parties are affected the same in comparison to their salaries. Realistically, though, the individual with the million dollar income is actually paying not 5%, but 25% or more in some cases. In my opinion, it just does not seem fair at all.
2003-05-02 09:29:08 PM  
Hmmm.... I thought the top tax rate was currently 35%, and didn't get to that rate until you were making pretty good money. HOw in the world do you get to a 50% income tax rate? I seem to remember from calculus that adding <35% for x time and 35% for y time will never exceed 35%...........or something like that
2003-05-02 09:29:59 PM  
05-02-03 09:28:13 PM Trelane

WhoIsPurpleGoo: Who cares what the value of the dollar is? Why should I pay 40% income tax, not counting capital gains or taxes on dividends, just because I'm successful? That's total crap.

Woo-hoo! Support. I thought I was alone for a second.
2003-05-02 09:30:14 PM  

See my post above. You can still live comfortably, just not like the f*cking king of the world.
2003-05-02 09:31:24 PM  
Ghare: That's federal income tax. Now go add another 10-15% state income tax on top of that.
2003-05-02 09:31:58 PM  
"Legal, schmegal... where do you think this money is coming from and where do you think it's going to go?

Question is, where do you think it's coming from and where is it going?
2003-05-02 09:32:40 PM  
HomerSamson113, the problem with you is that you were born in the wrong era. You would have been much happier born during feudalism or at least some form of strong aristocracy. Then, while cleaning chamber pots for you lord and master, you could happily defend the morality of ultra-wealthy to yourself, and nobody would give you grief.
2003-05-02 09:33:03 PM  
05-02-03 09:29:08 PM Ghare

You're sadly mistaken my friend. Many people in this country pay well over 35% in federal taxes ALONE. This doesn't include state taxes, property, taxes on dividends and other investments. Some people in this country making over 500k are lucky to bring home 38 cents on every dollar they make. Sure, it may not seem significant to you. You can say, all you'd like, that since they're wealthy, they can afford it. It's the principle that bothers me. Sure, they may be able to afford it and still live quite comfortably, but is it still fair? If you were making that much, I'm guessing you'd be singing a different tune.
2003-05-02 09:33:58 PM  
This story is bad.
I don't know what else to say.
I have lost my mind.
cold_brains has ruined my day.
Once I was quick.
Once I was cute.
But cold_brains makes me want to puke.
Bad companies win again.
They've always got good luck.
If I have to keep looking at cold_brains, I'll lose all interest in ever wanting to F*ck!
2003-05-02 09:35:04 PM  

Ahh, the retort of an idiot. Why is it that when anyone tries to defend lowering taxes on the wealthy they're shunned. Just because people make more, doesn't make it right to tax them more.

And, for the record, I don't clean chamber pots.
2003-05-02 09:35:52 PM  
And don't forget that you stop payong social security tax after about 75 k so you get an additional 7.2 (I think) % break so actual top income taxes breaks down to about 28%.

"In general, personal incomes below a certain amount are exempted from the individual income tax, the amount varying for single and for married persons with or without dependents. The tax is applied to the net income above such exemptions, and the rate becomes progressively higher for larger incomes. From the mid-1960s until 1982 the tax rate ranged from about 15% for the lowest brackets to about 70% for the highest, with a similar structure for corporate income taxes. In 1982, Congress passed President Reagan's plan to cut the highest rate on personal income tax from 70% to 50% and the capital gains tax from 50% to 20%. The Tax Reform Act of 1986 further lowered the maximum marginal tax rates from 50% to 28%, the lowest since the 1920s. A top rate of 31% was added in 1991, and additional rates of 36% and 39.6% for the wealthiest individuals were approved in the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993. Under changes enacted in 1997, the tax rate on most long-term capital gains is 20%10% for people in the 15% tax bracket. The top corporate tax rate is 39%, although the highest income-bracket tax rate is 35%. In many states and cities, lowered federal income taxes have been offset by higher state and local income and property taxes. In the 1980s and 90s, the call for a flat taxa single tax rate (around 17%20%) for individuals and businesseswas a recurring campaign issue among American conservatives.

See D. J. Gaffney and D. H. Skadden, Principles of Federal Income Taxation (1982); J. Creedy, The Dynamics of Income Distribution (1985); M. Levi, Of Rule and Revenue (1988)."
2003-05-02 09:37:20 PM  
Anyone who makes less than ten million a year and who still supports the President's propopsed tax cuts and these white collar criminals and so forth is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome and should seek pscyhological help.
2003-05-02 09:38:05 PM  
"(and grandfather it back so that it will affect these criminals)"

I believe our constitution prevents that. That was one of the nasty things our forefathers didn't like about some of the things that had been in others. It would really suck ,don't you think, if they outlawed skateboarding in a grocery store parking and made it punishable by up to three years in jail then grandfathered it back for 10 years. While you, had been skateboarding there three years prior but no longer are suddenly arrested, charged, and sentenced for up to three years. Doesn't matter that you stop skateboarding a year ago or that it wasn't even a crime back then, you're going to jail.

It's nice little things like that protect all of us.

To the rest of you, this was money already paid in by Enron and MCI to begin with. If it hadn't, these companies would be facing tax evasion charges instead of refunds. It shouldn't have been paid in to begin with.
2003-05-02 09:38:19 PM  
it's all too little too late - why bother asking corporations to pay taxes - and I say 'ask' because they do everything possible and spend vast amounts of money to avoid paying taxes no matter what.

Just show me some tits and get me a drink, someone.
2003-05-02 09:39:20 PM  

I never tried to defend the white collar criminals. Contrary to popular belief, there actually are honest corporate executives and CEOs earning upwards of 10 mil. There are only a select few who choose to attain their wealth illegally.
2003-05-02 09:39:43 PM  
Hurt them.
2003-05-02 09:40:47 PM  
Well (in Alabama) you start adding 5% State tax plus 9% Sales Tax (everything even food is taxed), Gas tax, Liquor Tax, Breathing Tax. Throw in FICA, etc etc and it's easy
to get to 40-50% of income to Taxes. Do I care which entity gets it if I dont? Nope... Heck a VAT tax
with privatization of Social Security would suit me fine!
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