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(AZCentral)   Oxford English Dictionary officially adds "bling-bling" to its entries   (azcentral.com) divider line 226
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17372 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 May 2003 at 6:01 AM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-05-01 11:59:41 AM
I never said only white men were bigots. I said a lot held discriminatory beliefs. That's it.

Farkers make a mockery minorities, tease 'womyn's dykishness', fat people's fatness and everything else that isn't part of what mainstream America considers right. Anything that diverges from this narrowminded perspective is ridiculed. "Bling-bling" while a silly word, has fit all the criteria for entry into OED and therefore shouldn't be met up w/ such ridicule. However, since its part of that minority culture that's so ridiculed, the word, and the rules of OED must be somehow less valid in this case. I call shennanigans. And as far as white bigotry goes, I love white people, hell, i love all people, but i've noticed that people who aren't white, or pass for white, have experienced life in a slightly different way that most minorities, including, but not limited to: racial/sexual discrimination by superiors, police, coworkers, friends, teachers, ad nauseum.

I'm just stating what i've noticed and continue to notice, here on fark. It doesn't take anything but an open mind to see it.

Oh, and WillizmZabka You're almost 100% right, but hip hop has never influenced the 'burbs like this before.

What's funny to me, again, is that the hip hop culture isn't much different from the culture of say, poor english playwrights who mocked society and tried to probe into the deeper innerworkings of the culture of their time. Granted, most of the shyt you hear on the radio nowadays SUCKS BALLZ, but a lot of guys really put forth some deep messages. Its not all just indy groups in pop/alternative/rock. they do the same thing to hip hop groups...

[/down w/ RIAA]
 
2003-05-01 12:03:52 PM
"bling-bling applies to big showy jewelry - the kind typified by razzle-dazzle designer Chris Aire that gets Lil' Kim's heart racing, sets off alarms at airports, and goes bling when it collides with other bling (hence the name)."


I guess that means bling-bling can be classified as onomatopoeia. Therefore bling needs to be added to the dictionary as well.
 
2003-05-01 12:07:33 PM
This reminds me of a few years ago when an American got on the OED staff and added a bunch of new stuff like "yadda yadda yadda." I wonder if he was responsible for this too?

Rob
 
2003-05-01 12:12:25 PM
Weemill I hardly think the comment "I still wouldn't hire anybody who used it (or wore it) to a job interview." qualifies as discrimination. I don't think it's a bad thing to expect someone who shows up for a job interview to be able to speak and dress properly.
 
2003-05-01 12:14:20 PM
My mother used the term Bling-Bling last night

she is almost 60

I give up

fo sheesy
 
2003-05-01 12:18:43 PM
Weemill,

I guess I was looking at my perspective that I have like hip hop since I first heard Run-DMC, The Geto Boys, Public Enemy, LL Cool J, anf The Beastie Boys in the mid-'80s.
I think it is safe to say, though, that hip hop culture has been in suburban middle class neighborhoods for at least a decade with Dr. Dre, 2Pac, Snoop, and others.

Also, I would like to propose a ban on this fo-shizzle bullshiat babytalk.
 
2003-05-01 12:18:55 PM
WilliamZabka,

I don't know if "any more smart" is grammatically incorrect, though I suspect that it is. The problem is how it reads; it's clumsy. Your eyes stumble across that phrase, and it forces you to pause and think to yourself, "that's not quite right." It's the grammatical equivalent of walking down the stairs and stumbling at the bottom because you thought there was one more step.

"Any smarter" would be a better way to write that phrase.
 
2003-05-01 12:20:58 PM
05-01-03 11:57:48 AM Williamzabka

For some reason "any more smart" does not sound right to me. Grammar nazis, can you help me out?


Any smarter
 
2003-05-01 12:21:00 PM
so let me get this straight...a person can't be smart just because they dont use big words, and are not quite grammatically correct are unintelligent?

i think that really all one would exhibit by not adhereing to the "laws" of english grammar is an overall refusal to conform to the standards set for them by society.

i suppose you would think it wrong to say, "peace" instead of "goodbye"...

check Webster's on that one... PEACE!
 
2003-05-01 12:22:23 PM

If we're going to ban words, I'd like to propose a couple:


Preventative
Colorize
Irregardless

Each of the above is just plain wrong

And yes, "any smarter" is much more grammatically correcter.
 
2003-05-01 12:23:46 PM
oops...leave the "are unintelligent" off that first sentence...
 
2003-05-01 12:24:58 PM
The only thing I'm wondering Weemill is, why when you keep typing things like:

"Now point out my spelling/grammar errors, so you can make yourselves feel superior...Idiots."
"Actually, rhiannon, if you read the inane comments by most of your other fellow farkers"
and
"Farkers make a mockery minorities, tease 'womyn's dykishness', fat people's fatness and everything else that isn't part of what mainstream America considers right."

do you bother to post on this site. If these things found here (as a majority you say) offend you so much, there are many other forums you can go to which require a much thinner skin.
 
2003-05-01 12:26:56 PM
EatHam
I'd agree with you, except I don't necessarily think that a little Bling bling is entirely improper. Would an earring qualify as improper, or perhaps a ring, or would a bracelet? Its preconceived notions that bring ruin. I think the blanket statement qualifies as discrimination. I wouldn't necessarily tell my boss, "Mr. O'Connor, I just purchased several stocks in Company X. I hear the price of bling bling is supposed to be going up sometime soon." But having on some bling bling may not necessarily be inappropriate. Any blanket statement is discriminatory, and that's the point i wanted to make by adding that quote in there, that's all.
 
2003-05-01 12:31:19 PM
 
2003-05-01 12:33:09 PM
My Eytmology professor is trying to get involved a lot with the OED. According to him the OED 2nd edition--being British--is chock full of British slang, like cockney and stuff like that, but it doesn't give suffecient treatment to American slang, particularly African-American slang. His specialization is slang, although not really modern slang like bling-bling. More older slang like jazz terminology. I should show this article to him.
 
2003-05-01 12:33:23 PM
Magiqueshroom,

Using proper grammar has nothing to do with intelligence, nor does the use of large, "50-cent" words. It's a matter of perception. We have a perceived and generally accepted notion of what is grammatically correct, and deviations from that standard can be confusing or upsetting.

The ultimate purpose of grammar in any language is to make communication clear and consise, especially in languages such as English, where slight deviations can communicate completely incorrect ideas about the subject matter, or about the person speaking/writing.

Few people actually speak with proper grammar, because spoken sentences and phrases are often supported by unspoken gestures and expressions, making the communication understandable. Something that is written doesn't have this extra, "invisible" information to help with communication, so proper grammar becomes important to make sure the topic of interest is communicated properly.
 
2003-05-01 12:38:07 PM
Magiqueshroom: so let me get this straight...a person can't be smart just because they dont use big words, and are not quite grammatically correct are unintelligent?

No, they give a first impression of being unintelligent. It may not be fair, but there it is. I suggest you read Pygmallion, or watch "My Fair Lady" for a treatment of this phenomenon. Or even "To Sir With Love".

i think that really all one would exhibit by not adhereing to the "laws" of english grammar is an overall refusal to conform to the standards set for them by society.

One of the unwritten rules is that one should speak succinctly. Now, if someone comes up to you and says (verbatim):
Uuuh, Is that...ummmm...your, uhm, car? Cuz...er, you're ummm blocking...uh me
Are you seriously telling me that you would assume that this person is a supergenius? Nonsense.

If you are incapable of speaking properly, you are incapable of thinking properly, and certainly incapable of expressing your ideas effectively.

0ok
 
2003-05-01 12:40:37 PM
Rhiannon

Because I can. And maybe because I am an optimist. Maybe people will see through my rough words, and see the sensitive crying baby inside, and try to understand my hurt, and the hurt of many other people out there.

rofl, truth is, i like to give opposing viewpoints. All to often people don't try to take the opposing viewpoint into perspective.

Williamzabka
You're right there, i'd say since 94-95, hip hop's been a mainstay of popular culture, w/ the emergence of YO! MTV raps (back when MTV did play videos).
 
2003-05-01 12:40:57 PM
Dawnrazor,

I completely agree. The first thing they taught us in Journalism school is that the average American reads at a 3rd grade level, so we have to write at a thrid grade level. Luckily in my field, I can wirte a little higher than 3rd grade, since the readership of my magazine is better than that, but I never use "50 cent" words. They take up too much space.
 
2003-05-01 12:48:31 PM
Here's a handy reference for middle-aged guys like me:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/
Why is it that Americans don't sound much like Brits when we speak any more? Language changes constantly.
 
2003-05-01 12:48:49 PM
Weemil - Maybe this is just me, but if I were going on a job interview, I would make sure that I wear a suit and tie, no jewelry whatsoever except a tasteful watch, speak in complete sentences, and address whomever is interviewing me with more respect than strictly necessary. I probably wouldn't not hire someone because of an earring, but I wouldn't call a small earring "bling" either.
 
2003-05-01 12:53:32 PM
They got this wrong it's supposed to be:

"Gleam, Gleam"

I know because I read it on FARK!
 
2003-05-01 12:57:01 PM
"CNN Headline News has been using "bling-bling" and other hip-hop terms in its headlines and graphics as part of what the network's general manager has called an aggressive attempt to stay "relevant, smarter and cooler" to a younger audience."

And instead end up looking rediculous, dumb, and FARKING stupid, considering the ammount of people who use the phrase "bling-bling" actually watch the news.
 
2003-05-01 12:59:12 PM
Eatham
Well, i think we're pretty much agreed on attire and speaking, but wouldn't you agree that a the blanket statement is a discriminatory practice?
 
2003-05-01 01:01:51 PM
the only reason this stpid phrase made it into the dictionary is because of PC mania. If this had just been normal policy and not the result of recent politically correct pandering, the dictionary would weigh 300 lbs instead of 150 (or whatever) due to the insertion of every other faddish flavor-of-the-month phrase. Trust me, people will be looking at "bling bling" with scorn in just a couple years. It's not going to have the staying power of "cool" or "neat" of "hot" which still are used in casual speech decades after their first slang usage.
 
2003-05-01 01:11:15 PM
I always thought the OED only accepted a slang word only if the slang word had worked its way into the common lexicon. I rarely hear anyone use "bling-bling" outside of MTV.

"Ain't" is acceptable, because it's part of the common lexicon. Everyone knows what you mean when you say "ain't," even though it's still perceived as backwards slang. However, I don't think that "bling-bling" fits that criteria, because it's not commonly known and accepted.

Am I wrong about the OED's requirements for entry?
 
2003-05-01 01:13:45 PM
LordArgent: How is a search on "WOOO" going to tell me anything about the etymology of "woot"?
 
2003-05-01 01:19:34 PM
Weemill - I don't agree that that statement is discriminatory, no. Showing up wearing bling-bling indicates the level of professionalism that you are likely to get from such a candidate. And I would not to see the level of professionalism that someone who could not even make the effort to look professional for an interview would show if I actually hired them.
 
2003-05-01 01:21:43 PM
Imagine a bunch of snooty brits sitting around their tea table mentioning they they have to go down to the jewelry shop and get some bling bling for their wives as a peace offering.

Is there some sort of stupidity virus going around when the Oxford English Dictionary starts including party girl slang?
 
2003-05-01 01:33:41 PM
"w00t" is one of the stupidest trends I've ever seen online. It's not even amusing when used ironically; it's just plain stupid. I think that it might just be a tag for the angel of death to use in identifying which humans to cull. Not that I believe in angels or anything, but still...
 
2003-05-01 01:34:27 PM
Weemill - "Bling-bling" while a silly word, has fit all the criteria for entry into OED and therefore shouldn't be met up w/ such ridicule. However, since its part of that minority culture that's so ridiculed, the word, and the rules of OED must be somehow less valid in this case. I call shennanigans. And as far as white bigotry goes, I love white people, hell, i love all people, but i've noticed that people who aren't white, or pass for white, have experienced life in a slightly different way that most minorities, including, but not limited to: racial/sexual discrimination by superiors, police, coworkers, friends, teachers, ad nauseum.

First off, simply not accepting a "culture" is not on par with racism. We have a mainstream in this country, and generally anyone who wishes to participate in it, must adhere to it to some degree. Hip-hop culture has no more right to expect "mainstream" acceptance than redneck, metal, punk, grunge, or emo... etc.

Snoop Dogg isn't gonna land a job as a broker for Goldman Sachs without making some concessions on his appearance or conduct. That's discrimination, but it's not born of racism, nor is it necessarily wrong. Employers have a right to employ those who will best represent their company in the environment in which they must do business.

On the flip side, I truly doubt "Suge" Knight is gonna give Marilyn Manson a job as an artist rep. or a talent scout, and rightfully so... Even if he had the skills, it's highly doubtful that he'd make the best representative for his company in the environment in which he has to do business. This isn't necessarily because he's white, but rather because of his appearance and the manner in which he carries himself.

As for "Bling," my only real complaint about the word is the message it's too often coupled with... It seems that wealth and opulence are too often preached as the end-goal rather than the by-product of achievement. There seems to be little focus on the means by which "bling" is achieved... kind of a "don't matter how you got it, long as you flash it" message.

I think this is currently one of the most damaging messages/ideologies in the country in general, and in the hip-hop community in particular.
 
2003-05-01 01:34:41 PM
Can Buck Cake be far behind?
 
2003-05-01 01:36:59 PM
Dawnrazor
The ultimate purpose of grammar in any language is to make communication clear and consise

Not always...4pht3r 4||, \/\/h47 4b0u7 1337?!?!?!?!?111 |5n't t3h p|_|rp053 0f 1337 t0 |The New England Journal of Medicine)

Dire
Nice attempt at politicizing the issue (or trolling), but the OED's standards have always remained the same. As was pointed out by Squidward, the focus had traditionally been on British slang, but has recently included more American slang. In no way whatsoever is that PC, it's just including a formerly neglected subset of the English language. After all, "Jedi" and "Klingon" have both found their way in...and I'm pretty sure those are primarily within the domain of pasty-faced white geeks.
 
2003-05-01 01:37:44 PM
crap...mental note: don't use angle brackets on Fark when speaking 1337
 
2003-05-01 01:44:03 PM
What I was trying to say was that the purpose of 1337 is to confuse, not clarify. It intends to set apart those who know, from those who don't. Technically, that makes it more of a jargon than a language, but the point remains.

And once again, for those slow on the uptake, no one--not even the OED--is suggesting that "bling bling" is proper English. It is merely being recorded as slang that is in fairly common use. The OED exists to catalog the development of the English language, not to serve as the arbiter of what is legitimate and what isn't. That job belongs to those twin fascists, Strunk and White. :-)

My witty rejoinder that my HTML farkup destroyed was that no one should expect to see an article on "Bling-bling-related dermatological discoloration" in The New England Journal of Medicine.
 
2003-05-01 01:48:13 PM
Technicolor-Misfit

I would agree with you on most counts, however, (and here's the hippie in me coming out) I don't believe that discrimination in any sense should be embraced, or tolerated for that matter. I do believe that different cultures should be allowed to cling to their beliefs, but i think that to a great degree, when entering a culture other than your own, you should be able to bring a part of your old culture into it. As an avid fan of hip hop, It'd be nice to, on-for instance-casual fridays, wear my baggie jeans and a T-shirt. I don't believe that entrance into another culture decisively means that you must shed bits and pieces of your old culture. A little too much bling (which is already in the dictionary, so bling-bling should be a subcategory, i'd suspect), while somewhat tacky, shouldn't determine hiring practice, anymore than a tacky tie, or badly matched shoes/belt/socks.

For instance, Eminem(though most people rag on him, i like him and his lyrical ability). Hip hop has been, and probably will always be, a black oriented genre. His whiteness and unique perspective to the culture of poverty, which hip hop afficianados can relate to, add a new twist, and growth to the art form, and to the business itself, by including a great many more listeners to the art into the culture.

In conclusion, I don't think culture has to be like hats, you take one off to put one on. I'd say its more like flare-remember jennifer aniston in Office Space?-you try to integrate as much of it into your being as possible. Some pieces larger, others smaller, but all equally important to understanding those around you.

/off to hug a tree now.
 
2003-05-01 01:52:10 PM
Why was this article so damn special? Words are coined, and eventually make it into the mainstream. Yeehaw.
 
2003-05-01 01:57:45 PM
Weemill I would put showing up to an interview with a bunch of bling-bling on more in the category of showing up in a tube top, hot pants, and rollerblades than the category of a bad tie.
 
2003-05-01 01:59:57 PM
eatham
I'd say that's ludicrous as well, but I'm not talking a rediculous amount, maybe a bracelet or a watch, maybe an earring, or a tie clip. something appropriate, but a little on the flashy side, bling-blingy, if you will. Same thing?
 
2003-05-01 02:02:14 PM
Weemill - If it's "appropriate", it's not bling-bling. Bling-bling is giant chains, huge charms, and generally things you could find at www.pimphats.com.
 
2003-05-01 02:04:02 PM
Allanhowls,

Heh, heh! l33t rules!

Actually, doesn't l33t follow the same basic grammatical rules as regular English? After all, l33t is simply English words spelled using non-standard characters (punctuation marks and numbers instead letters.) The confusion generated by l33t comes from the strange use of characters, not grammatical structure.
 
2003-05-01 02:04:36 PM
Ok, the fact that someone uses a particular group of words, known as slang, does not mean that they are stupid or superficial. Nearly every language has more than one mode of conversation, such as formal and colloquial. What this means is this: we are officially taught the formal in schools. we learn the informal/ colloquial through other means. As a school student gets older, he/ she is taught that there are times when it is acceptable to use formal language, and there are times when you use colloquial. This does not mean that one form of language is BETTER than another. It simply means that one is more suited than the other for a particular situation and vice versa. It's the same as trying to say that a tank top and sandals are better than a heavy coat and boots. Well, if you're out in the sun in 90 degree weather, yeah, the tank top and sandals are more suited. But if you're in northern Alaska in December, the coat and boots are more suited.

The OED is not strictly a dictionary of formal English. It tries to document language history, and is very useful for English majors such as myself when we encounter slang terms in, say, a Shakespeare play or other oler literature- we can look in the OED, and find out what that term meant back then, and thus, understand better what we are reading.

Back in Mozart's time, music like his was popular... and scorned by the parents of the people who liked it as superficial. Now, it's prized as the height of cultural awareness. Shakespeare's plays were seen as a very low, vulgar form of entertainment. now, they are seen as the best of what is good in English literature. In 200 years, students will be reading as "Classical literature" much of what is mainstream work today. Sure, that which truly is superficial tripe won't make the cut, but a lot will. And believe me, it will be a great help to an English major 200 years from now to find words like "bling- bling" or "cool" in the OED. Like it or not, this is how history works. Most of what is considered "great literature" is so "Great" because it ignored rules, or created a controversy that changed rules, or otherwise was NOT universally liked, and was particularly disliked by authority figures, and thus was presented by those authority figures as ignorant, low, and vulgar. The same happens today. Deal with it.
 
2003-05-01 02:05:17 PM
 
2003-05-01 02:07:43 PM
Not necessarily, EatHam. Like all things, there are levels of bling-bling. A nice shiny watch is bling bling, so would a diamond stud be. You can have bling bling and not be tacky. The shiat you see at pimphats.com is just someone's way of overdoing it. You don't have to come in looking like silky the pimp to have on bling bling. That's why i disagree with across the board discrimination practices. because it starts with one misconception.
 
2003-05-01 02:09:00 PM
Not entirely, Dawnrazor. 1337 is responsible for the phrase "the suck," as in "My Photoshop skills are the suck." In the original tongue, it would be "my ph0705h0p 5killz r t3h 5uck." (or, more formally, "t3h sux0rz"). The grammar is, for the most part, willfully nonexistent.

Y'know, were I not ten years removed from college (and please note the proper use of the subjunctive), 1337 would make for a great Master's thesis (I got my BA in sociology)
 
2003-05-01 02:11:28 PM
Kudos, greek
 
2003-05-01 02:12:33 PM
Well, isn't that the bee's knees. I'm off to my Hooverville to ponder that one. 23 skidoo!
 
2003-05-01 02:13:11 PM
...and mad props to Hilarity for the Megatokyo reference...have the shirt?
 
2003-05-01 02:30:51 PM
Weemill - I would agree with you on most counts, however, (and here's the hippie in me coming out) I don't believe that discrimination in any sense should be embraced, or tolerated for that matter.

Well, discrimination in essence is merely the act of making choices... I think people should retain the right to make those choices, as long as there not based on race, sex, religion etc.

I do believe that different cultures should be allowed to cling to their beliefs, but i think that to a great degree, when entering a culture other than your own, you should be able to bring a part of your old culture into it. As an avid fan of hip hop, It'd be nice to, on-for instance-casual fridays, wear my baggie jeans and a T-shirt. I don't believe that entrance into another culture decisively means that you must shed bits and pieces of your old culture.

I think that if the person hiring you says you should, you should... People are entitled to expect that their employees will represent their company in the manner in which they choose. The idea behind dress codes for the most part is to:

a.)Fit in in the environment in which the company does business.
b.)Avoid potential problems, revealing clothing, offensive clothing, etc.
c.)Create a cohesive team environment in which apparel does not become divisive or distracting. Much like uniforms in the military or in sports.

I think a company has a reasonable right to expect these things... They have a right to choose to promote these principles. If you find their choices objectionable, you have a right to choose an employment environment more to your liking.

A little too much bling (which is already in the dictionary, so bling-bling should be a subcategory, i'd suspect), while somewhat tacky, shouldn't determine hiring practice, anymore than a tacky tie, or badly matched shoes/belt/socks.

Once again, I think it's up to the owner or his appointed representatives (the managers) to decide where the line is drawn. Once again, you have the right to choose where your own personal line is drawn. You have the right to attempt to negotiate a change in policy. He has the right to deny it. You have the right to leave.

For instance, Eminem(though most people rag on him, i like him and his lyrical ability).

It's funny you mention Eminem... I think here's another interesting (albeit separate) point regarding racial discrimination. I have yet to hear a single black rap/hip-hop fan say they like Eminem... I'm sure there are some. But I haven't met them. I'm also sure some genuinely dislike him as an artist. But, how many dislike him solely because he's white. How many will never give acceptance or "props" to any white hip-hop or rap artist?

Racism and discrimination are not the sole domain of whites... nor is it a "rare" thing in the black community. I think often times discrimination isn't necessarily even borne of disdain or or ideas of percieved superiority or inferiority... quite often it's simply a product of the human trait to want to be around those most like us, and those with whom we identify.

I'm not saying that's bad or good, but there certainly seems to be a double-standard within our culture regarding it. When blacks act on it, it's percieved or described as "embracing their culture." Whereas when whites act on it, it's percieved and described as bigotry or racism.

For example, if a black man/woman says they only date black women/men... It's pride in their heritage and culture. If a white man/woman says they only date whites, it's racism.

So, where do we draw the line and say what's acceptable discrimination, and what's unacceptable discrimination?
 
2003-05-01 02:32:39 PM
And when the day comes that the phrase gets borrowed by other languages...

blingen, blang, geblungen (haben): (v. intr.) To display one's status as a member of the usu. urban black nouveau riche, as by sporting ostentatious jewelry

verblingen: to display said status in a manner that draws envy and often reprisals from fellow members of the nouveau riche


entblingen (sein): to lose status as a member of the nouveau riche by living beyond one's means and relapse into poverty

erblingen: to lose status as a member of the nouveau riche by accumulating enough wealth that one is considered to have entered the well-established upper class

und so weiter...
 
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