If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(LA Times)   Los Angeles County Sheriff's plan to use home monitoring for non-violent offenders to reduce jail population has hit a small snag. There aren't that many non-violent offenders in jail   (latimes.com) divider line 60
    More: Obvious, Los Angeles, LA County, congestion, monitoring, jail population, sheriffs, jail, justice system  
•       •       •

4748 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2010 at 3:25 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



60 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2010-03-28 02:52:27 PM
I call bullshiat.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2010-03-28 02:53:06 PM
That's an interesting example of the misuse of statistics. Probably accidental misuse in this case. X% of prisoners are in jail for violent crimes vs. X% of prisoners have been convicted of violent crimes. Sounds the same but isn't.
 
2010-03-28 03:17:31 PM
There are so many programs for non-violent offenders that most of them are sentenced to alternative programs rather than jail. Many are sentenced to probation, home detention, halfway houses, etc. The ones that end up in jail do so because they don't qualify for those programs from the start.
 
2010-03-28 03:29:46 PM
"The myth of the low-security, nonviolent offender in jail is just that: a myth," said sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore

But, but, but I was told the jails were full of people who are sweet and nice and shouldn't be there!
 
2010-03-28 03:30:51 PM
Five stars, really?
 
2010-03-28 03:31:19 PM

What a non-violent offender using electronic monitoring may look like:


img192.imageshack.us

 
2010-03-28 03:31:41 PM
Really? Inmates prefer a shorter sentence in prison with free food and no nagging than a longer sentence at home? Color me confused.

I've got an easier solution. Less cops. More courts. You keep a poor man in jail for months or years to wait for a chance at a trial, he's unlikely to be a good citizen if/when he gets out.
 
2010-03-28 03:33:24 PM
ZAZ: That's an interesting example of the misuse of statistics. Probably accidental misuse in this case. X% of prisoners are in jail for violent crimes vs. X% of prisoners have been convicted of violent crimes. Sounds the same but isn't.

Prisoners are disqualified if they have a "history" of violence. So someone who was convicted for fighting 10 years ago would never be eligible for home monitoring.
 
2010-03-28 03:39:14 PM
We worry that Social Security is nearing the point where there won't be enough workers to support the retirees. We should also be worried that soon there won't be enough people who aren't in jail to support the people who are in jail plus the huge corrections industry.
 
2010-03-28 03:42:01 PM
nailPuppy: Five stars, really?

Came here to mention this as well. Is five really necessary? So are there a bunch of people running around with four/three/etc?
 
2010-03-28 03:42:05 PM
But I thought that everyone who smoked a joint was locked up by those evil pigs for the rest of their lives!
 
2010-03-28 03:44:06 PM
gund: I've got an easier solution. Less cops. More courts.

I keep wondering why THIS isn't the way to get more criminals prosecuted ... Make more judges hold court longer.

Get pulled over for a traffic ticket? Spent the night in jail?

"Your Honor, I'm ready to proceed IMMEDIATELY. Can we take my case to the midday session?"

"Um , well ,the state isn't ready ... "

"Screw them. I'm the one guaranteed a speedy trial, not them. I spent all damned night in a cell. It's not my problem that they were all sleeping. Bring out the cop that pulled me over and his report. This isn't rocket science. Wake the third shifter out of bed and get his arse down here."

"but it'll cause him hardship"

"yeah, well, I live three states over, so I'll probably lose my FARKING JOB over making two more appearances for them to screw around on this. On the other hand, he can claim overtime. Who's more at risk here?"

"But the state needs to .. "

"Needs to what? Get more information about me? I didn't know any of that was farking germane to the fact that my paperwork is a day and a half out of date. They had my info all night - more than enough time for them to get my last full FBI background check that happened when I was employed"
 
2010-03-28 03:55:24 PM
Huh ? And I thought the biggest prison population on the face of the earth was three quarters prostitutes and weed smokers ?
 
2010-03-28 03:55:47 PM
gund: Really? Inmates prefer a shorter sentence in prison with free food and no nagging than a longer sentence at home? Color me confused.

You point out a big part of the problem. For many people, jail is a much more attractive alternative than home. In jail you sleep, watch TV and get your meals brought to your door. You basically have no responsibilities at all. For people who are irresponsible by nature, it's a great place to be.
 
2010-03-28 03:55:52 PM
www.thesmokinggun.com

i can haz lectronix moniturz?
 
2010-03-28 03:56:17 PM
inkblot: But I thought that everyone who smoked a joint was locked up by those evil pigs for the rest of their lives!

That would be Texas.
 
2010-03-28 03:58:07 PM
Non-violent offenders are already not in jail because most of them already are out on bond.

Electronic monitoring is only useful for those that for whatever reason can't qualify for a bond (not a permanent resident, no steady job, immigration status, etc) yet are somehow able to afford to pay the electronic monitoring fees.
 
2010-03-28 04:04:08 PM
What astounds me is why we lock people up for unpaid traffic fines: wouldn't it be more cost effective to garnish their wages or welfare benefits? Oh wait, that wouldn't feed the prison industrial complex, that's right. Carry on.
 
2010-03-28 04:11:11 PM
Most non violent offenders end up with long periods of probation as opposed to jail. Far more profitable to the state.
 
2010-03-28 04:11:23 PM
"But their calculation took into account only the current charges inmates were being held on, officials concede. Once they reviewed the criminal histories of inmates, officials said they found many had serious or violent records that made them ineligible for home detention."

So, the problem is not the person is currently charged with driving with a suspended license. The problem is that they don't have a license because they have been in prison for 6 years for assault and now you can't let them slide.

====================
"...sheriff's officials complained that most preferred to do their time in jail and leave after serving a fraction of their sentences without any supervision rather than serve their full sentences on home detention."

No duh, sherlock.
 
2010-03-28 04:11:35 PM
2nd DUI in Ga now gets you 2-4 weeks. Don't know about CA, but here I know a number of people in jail for DUI, drug, and probation violation.
 
2010-03-28 04:22:15 PM
I could be wrong but if CA legalizes weed I'm pretty sure that prison population problem will go away immediately.
 
2010-03-28 04:26:26 PM
machodonkeywrestler: 2nd DUI in Ga now gets you 2-4 weeks. Don't know about CA, but here I know a number of people in jail for DUI, drug, and probation violation.

Good.
 
2010-03-28 04:32:30 PM
99.999% of prisoners in the US are actually people who were convicted of looking at a cannabis planty. Unfortunately for LA county, looking at a cannabis plant is considered a violent act.

This is as opposed to Europe, Canada, and Australia which only ever punish two things: violent acts and saying something less than utterly damning about certain political parties of the past or remotely bad about the descendants of certain people who used to live there in the past. Those guilty of the latter are thrown into secret basement dungeons and are never heard from again. The former are "rehabilitated", meaning that they're read several quotes from Confuscious and/or Nietzche, asked to promise never to do it again, and released after a week of community service. Certain violent acts are not punishible in those countries depending on how the victim is dressed.
 
2010-03-28 04:42:09 PM
jst3p: machodonkeywrestler: 2nd DUI in Ga now gets you 2-4 weeks. Don't know about CA, but here I know a number of people in jail for DUI, drug, and probation violation.

Good.


That's one of the ones I agree with. I don't necessarily agree with the lower standard, since .08 is different for different people, but DUI is one where the fact you didn't hurt someone is often just luck.
 
2010-03-28 04:50:26 PM
jst3p: machodonkeywrestler: 2nd DUI in Ga now gets you 2-4 weeks. Don't know about CA, but here I know a number of people in jail for DUI, drug, and probation violation.

Good.

That's one of the ones I agree with. I don't necessarily agree with the lower standard, since .08 is different for different people, but DUI is one where the fact you didn't hurt someone is often just luck.



Ga less safe Driver law means you don't even have to blow a 0.08, if you are pulled over for ANY infraction.
 
2010-03-28 05:01:03 PM
machodonkeywrestler: jst3p: machodonkeywrestler: 2nd DUI in Ga now gets you 2-4 weeks. Don't know about CA, but here I know a number of people in jail for DUI, drug, and probation violation.

Good.

That's one of the ones I agree with. I don't necessarily agree with the lower standard, since .08 is different for different people, but DUI is one where the fact you didn't hurt someone is often just luck.


Ga less safe Driver law means you don't even have to blow a 0.08, if you are pulled over for ANY infraction.


Holy crap, that is some bullshiat. But it looks like you exaggerated a bit on the first point:

GEORGIA DUI PENALTIES

Second Offense Within a Five Year Period

Fine

$600-$1000 plus any statutory surcharges.

Jail

90 days to 12 months, all except three days of which may be suspended, stayed, or probated.
 
2010-03-28 05:02:08 PM
CruiserTwelve: There are so many programs for non-violent offenders that most of them are sentenced to alternative programs rather than jail. Many are sentenced to probation, home detention, halfway houses, etc. The ones that end up in jail do so because they don't qualify for those programs from the start.

Discounting the majority of inmates who are simply awaiting trial and too poor to make bail, I couldn't find any statistics, but I think it's reasonable to guess sentenced jail inmates are less violent than the prison population, since few murders or rapists get a sentence of less than one year.

This Public Policy Institute of California paper provides some info: 48% of the male prison population in California is there for non-violent crimes, including 20% for drug crimes.

At the same time, the Moscone Act allegedly keeps keeps personal-use Marijuana offenders out of incarceration entirely, while drug dealers go to prison, so maybe that skews the numbers the other way.

It's also worth noting that violent crime rates trended down at the same time incarceration rates trended up through the '90s. I have no idea what that means, but I'd be careful before assuming that California offers anything in the way of leniency or alternative sentencing to anyone except rich drunk drivers and commoners caught with one joint or less.
 
2010-03-28 05:19:42 PM
Firebug: Kudos to the LA Sheriff's Department for not lowering their standards and having more of these jerkoffs running wild in the street.

What do you have against hispanics?
 
2010-03-28 05:23:02 PM
Ringshadow: I could be wrong but if CA legalizes weed I'm pretty sure that prison population problem will go away immediately.

Farking couldn't be more wrong.

Here's a hint: while weed is a part of gang culture, the violence is not because of the weed. There's no profit in it for them. Nobody's in prison for weed violations.
 
2010-03-28 05:26:34 PM
CruiserTwelve: gund: Really? Inmates prefer a shorter sentence in prison with free food and no nagging than a longer sentence at home? Color me confused.

You point out a big part of the problem. For many people, jail is a much more attractive alternative than home. In jail you sleep, watch TV and get your meals brought to your door. You basically have no responsibilities at all. For people who are irresponsible by nature, it's a great place to be.


LoL. Fark you, knob polisher. Go back to your department circle-jerk congratulating each other on how boot-strappy and upright you are.

Try it sometime, I'm sure you're all stressed out and need the time off, what with the heavy workload of handing out tickets. Be sure to let all your new friends know why you're vacationing with them.

Oh, but any time you need a paid vacation all you need to do is slap a citizen around on camera instead of dragging them around to the side of the cruiser where they can 'bump their head' on the door frame while resisting.

In case it wasn't clear enough, fark you, you self-righteous piece of shiat.

I'm as irresponsible as they come. Served a week for being irresponsible in monthly payments on previous irresponsibility. County isn't too horrible. Other than absolutely everything about it from the food, to the so-called bedding, to the cold, to being stuck watching through a tiny window whatever inane idiocy the tv is set to and feeling your mind rot away as the hours eat at it, to the pressing weight of other people hovering around you every single second of every minute of every hour, to the slamming of metal doors at all hours of the night as people come and go, to the nightly freakouts that just can't handle it.

Seriously, just go fark yourself with your service piece. Are there people broken enough that prison is a happier place for them then out in the world, yeah, probably. Are they some massive epidemic that proves how awesome funtacular amazing jail is, like it's some kind of paradise for po' trash? No. fark you, fark your farking high horse, and in fact, go full-on Mr. Hands and get farked by your farking high horse.
 
2010-03-28 05:31:05 PM
Oh, Riddick, you incorrigible scamp!

How are we supposed to chronicle your wacky misadventures now?
 
2010-03-28 05:31:55 PM
Non-violent first time offenders don't have to have money to "make bail." They are released on their own recognizance by signing a promise to appear for their court date.

The statistics cited for the number in prison for non-violent offense is misleading. Those are people who were already on community supervision when they committed a new offense. Committing new crimes is a violation of probation or parole so they get revoked and go to prision.

The reality of crime is that a certain small percentage of the population are just plain bad. These habitual criminals commit crimes whenever the opportunity presents itself. It may be true that they are technially in prison for a non-violent crime like simple theft... but the prison sentence is really a criminal career acheivement award.
 
2010-03-28 05:44:17 PM
LowbrowDeluxe: Go back to your department circle-jerk congratulating each other on how boot-strappy and upright you are.

Try it sometime, I'm sure you're all stressed out and need the time off, what with the heavy workload of handing out tickets. Be sure to let all your new friends know why you're vacationing with them.

Oh, but any time you need a paid vacation all you need to do is slap a citizen around on camera instead of dragging them around to the side of the cruiser where they can 'bump their head' on the door frame while resisting.



That's some lowbrow humor.
 
2010-03-28 05:48:02 PM
TheWhoppah: Non-violent first time offenders don't have to have money to "make bail." They are released on their own recognizance by signing a promise to appear for their court date.

Maybe in Texas.

As far as I can tell, in California, that's only for traffic offenses and less than 1 gram of Marijuana.
 
2010-03-28 05:50:08 PM
fnordfocus: TheWhoppah: Non-violent first time offenders don't have to have money to "make bail." They are released on their own recognizance by signing a promise to appear for their court date.

Maybe in Texas.

As far as I can tell, in California, that's only for traffic offenses and less than 1 gram of Marijuana.


I was arrested in cali when I was 18 for a non-drug related offense, I was out ror in a few hours.

This was a long time ago though.
 
2010-03-28 05:51:21 PM
Sheriff's?
 
2010-03-28 05:54:20 PM
How does one on electronic monitoring shop for groceries or take a walk outside? Are they allowed to?
 
2010-03-28 05:56:07 PM
Jon iz teh kewl: How does one on electronic monitoring shop for groceries or take a walk outside? Are they allowed to?

Pretty sure that depends on the conditions of the release. Some of them could be allowed to go out at certain times for work etc.
 
2010-03-28 06:14:22 PM
peterthx: Ringshadow: I could be wrong but if CA legalizes weed I'm pretty sure that prison population problem will go away immediately.

Farking couldn't be more wrong.

Here's a hint: while weed is a part of gang culture, the violence is not because of the weed. There's no profit in it for them. Nobody's in prison for weed violations.


...wait are you seriously telling me that there aren't people in California sitting in jail for three strikes on weed possession?

That just... seems really unlikely.

/only 75% of Mendocino's profit is from weed or something
 
2010-03-28 06:23:41 PM
Ah, home monitoring... yeah, that works great if you actually monitor them...

Roommate's mom had a rapist break into her home and attack her. She knocked him unconscious and escaped... not before noticing the bracelet on his ankle. Props to her for being badass... but the agency that is supposed to be making sure that their prisoners are home get a big FAIL.
 
2010-03-28 06:50:10 PM
Golden_Eternity: Ah, home monitoring... yeah, that works great if you actually monitor them...

Roommate's mom had a rapist break into her home and attack her. She knocked him unconscious and escaped... not before noticing the bracelet on his ankle. Props to her for being badass... but the agency that is supposed to be making sure that their prisoners are home get a big FAIL.


It's an automated system. You don't require someone actually sitting there going "there he is at the toilet, now he's in the bedroom", etc.

Don't bring up a story that nobody has any way of verifying without more information. Your story sounds like something that gets passed around in an email. My roommate's mom got attacked by a perp not wearing an ankle bracelet. The system works. TADA.

What happened to the burglar? What identified him as a rapist? Was he arrested? Did she call the cops? How the fark are we supposed to know what sort of bracelet it is? Rapists usually don't randomly break into houses to rape people, because there's a lot of easier ways.

And how did home monitoring for non-violent offenders lead to your roommate's mom getting attacked by a rapist? Rape is a violent offense.

You want to state home monitoring doesn't work because they can escape monitoring, you need data, or better anecdotes than that.
 
2010-03-28 07:25:44 PM
goletaal: Sheriff's?

Yes. There is a person who is the LA County Sheriff. It is his (possessive) plan.
 
2010-03-28 08:13:15 PM
Ringshadow: ...wait are you seriously telling me that there aren't people in California sitting in jail for three strikes on weed possession?

That just... seems really unlikely.

/only 75% of Mendocino's profit is from weed or something


Three strikes is for felonies.

Take a tour of a prison sometime. You'll see that these people aren't there for petty crimes. Releasing this many people to the streets is a frightening prospect.
 
2010-03-28 08:13:31 PM
LowbrowDeluxe: LoL. Fark you, knob polisher. Go back to your department circle-jerk congratulating each other on how boot-strappy and upright you are.

Try it sometime, I'm sure you're all stressed out and need the time off, what with the heavy workload of handing out tickets. Be sure to let all your new friends know why you're vacationing with them.

Oh, but any time you need a paid vacation all you need to do is slap a citizen around on camera instead of dragging them around to the side of the cruiser where they can 'bump their head' on the door frame while resisting.

In case it wasn't clear enough, fark you, you self-righteous piece of shiat.

I'm as irresponsible as they come. Served a week for being irresponsible in monthly payments on previous irresponsibility. County isn't too horrible. Other than absolutely everything about it from the food, to the so-called bedding, to the cold, to being stuck watching through a tiny window whatever inane idiocy the tv is set to and feeling your mind rot away as the hours eat at it, to the pressing weight of other people hovering around you every single second of every minute of every hour, to the slamming of metal doors at all hours of the night as people come and go, to the nightly freakouts that just can't handle it.

Seriously, just go fark yourself with your service piece. Are there people broken enough that prison is a happier place for them then out in the world, yeah, probably. Are they some massive epidemic that proves how awesome funtacular amazing jail is, like it's some kind of paradise for po' trash? No. fark you, fark your farking high horse, and in fact, go full-on Mr. Hands and get farked by your farking high horse.


Wow. You got some serious unresolved issues.
 
2010-03-28 08:25:32 PM
Descartes: "The myth of the low-security, nonviolent offender in jail is just that: a myth," said sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore

But, but, but I was told the jails were full of people who are sweet and nice and shouldn't be there!


PRISONS are full of nonviolent offenders. JAILS not so much. This is what happens when people get confused between PRISONS which contain people doing more than one year on their sentence; and JAILS, which contain a wonderful mishmash of people who have not been to court yet, who are awaiting sentencing, who are serving less than one year for assorted less-serious crimes, and those awaiting out-processing back to the streets.

PRISONS are overcrowded because of too many nonviolent offenders. JAILS are overcrowded because of too many, well, criminals.
 
2010-03-28 08:31:32 PM
peterthx: Ringshadow: ...wait are you seriously telling me that there aren't people in California sitting in jail for three strikes on weed possession?

That just... seems really unlikely.

/only 75% of Mendocino's profit is from weed or something

Three strikes is for felonies.

Take a tour of a prison sometime. You'll see that these people aren't there for petty crimes. Releasing this many people to the streets is a frightening prospect.


Didn't a guy in Texas just get life in prison for having five ounces of weed or something?
 
2010-03-28 08:34:32 PM
I knew a chick whose ankle bracelet caused her an allergic reaction and she had to have several surgeries to treat the condition and the infections it caused.
 
2010-03-28 08:40:20 PM
What about people awaiting trail who can't afford bail? Oh wait the bail bondsmen are against that: Link
 
2010-03-28 08:51:42 PM
LittleSmitty: Most non violent offenders end up with long periods of probation as opposed to jail. Far more profitable to the stateprobation monitoring companies.

FTFY. At least, in Georgia that's how it is. The county and city governments all pay these independent companies to track their probation systems and collect the fees (minus their cut, of course). Which is why the probation system here is a joke. Though it's not like the governments themselves would do a better job. Utterly farking hopeless.
 
Displayed 50 of 60 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report