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(MSNBC)   "We just pulled the rug out from under human space flight"   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 302
    More: Sad, human spaceflight, constellation, CAPE CANAVERAL, Constellation program, Kennedy Space Center, space industry, Norman Augustine, UCF  
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34466 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Mar 2010 at 9:37 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-03-28 09:21:47 AM
Thanks Obama
 
2010-03-28 09:40:41 AM
A presidential commission, led by former aerospace executive Norman Augustine, reported to Obama last September that the Ares 1 would have limited use and that the heavy-lift rocket necessary for a moon mission probably wouldn't be ready until 2028. At that point, the panel said, there'd be no money left in the program for a moon lander or moon habitat. In effect, the Augustine committee said Constellation, which has already cost $9.4 billion, was destined for a (metaphorical) crash landing.

Nuff said?
 
2010-03-28 09:42:08 AM
And another broken MSNBC link.

msnbcmedia1.msn.com
 
2010-03-28 09:42:21 AM
FTA

no NASA-owned spaceship of any kind in the near future

Thanks Obama indeed. I don't care what your politics are. That is not where America should be, under any president.
 
2010-03-28 09:43:06 AM
Another editorial masquerading as "news".
**Yawn**
 
NGM
2010-03-28 09:45:05 AM
Waaaah, I'm not going into space. By the looks of it, I never would have been able to, in my life time, afford (or justify spending the loot) to go into space. These people jumped the gun with the rocket, a typical ignorant move.

Too bad, SO sad.

/Rather have health care
 
2010-03-28 09:46:21 AM
I'll give my paycheck if NASA builds a rocket that sends teabaggers into the sun.
 
2010-03-28 09:48:02 AM
Ecobuckeye: And another broken MSNBC link.

What's ol' Rat-Zinger holding? The Holy Lupin?
 
2010-03-28 09:49:06 AM
Should ugly bags of mostly water be hurling their bodies out into the void?
 
2010-03-28 09:49:50 AM
What a waste of money. Who the hell cares about landing on the moon again?
 
2010-03-28 09:50:33 AM
Human space flight is a massive f*cking waste of money and should have had the plug pulled years ago. Robots can explore the solar system more efficiently and for vastly less money than sending up people, with their pathetic and shockingly expensive needs for food, oxygen, and bathrooms.
 
2010-03-28 09:50:55 AM
Your participle is dangling,
 
2010-03-28 09:50:56 AM
Eh, Obama's consistently voiced his disdain for the manned space program since the debates. I have to disagree with the president here. America does not want to be at a disadvantage to other nations when it comes to space exploration, mineral prospecting, or potential weaponization. Its all good to say 'landing people on the moon is a waste of money', but to put ourselves at such a strategically bad position is not clear thinking. Besides that, its the space program for god's sake. This is America, its kind of our 'thing', ya' know? The one thing we can feel happy about the majority of the time.
 
2010-03-28 09:51:18 AM
Too bad. That rug really tied the room together.
 
2010-03-28 09:52:23 AM
FTA:

The new NASA strategy shifts the task of launching astronauts to low Earth orbit from traditional government contracts to commercial contracts. If the private sector can create a taxi to space, NASA can focus on new technologies and longer journeys in the solar system.

So letting the free market in on the space program is a bad thing I suppose. I hope that all of you bootstrappy capitalists that have been telling us that the government can't do anything right for the last year will be in here defending this shift from the govt to the private sector.
 
2010-03-28 09:53:00 AM
"We just pulled the rug out from under human US space flight,"

FTFY Subby. Plenty of other countries who still have their balls.

What happened to you Obama? You used to be cool.

Why don't we just buy rockets from the Chinese, just like everything else.
 
2010-03-28 09:53:20 AM
Besides measuring weewees with the Russians, why exactly should we be spending money on space flight?
 
2010-03-28 09:55:39 AM
WTF Indeed
I'll give my paycheck if NASA builds a rocket that sends teabaggers into the sun.
Time to build Ark Fleet Ship B, I think. Oh, and A and C, of course...
 
2010-03-28 09:56:41 AM
Great, now I'll *never* be able to escape this planet.
 
2010-03-28 09:57:06 AM
NGM: /Rather have health care

You do realize just how many scientific advancements have taken place as a direct result of the Space Program? Obviously, it doesn't matter to you that the cure to cancer, aids, and a million other medical problems may possibly be found in space? Perhaps the weightless environment, perhaps some substance found in the moon? Who knows? But, as long as you get that "free" visit to the doc for some rash cream, you're all good with that?
 
2010-03-28 09:59:07 AM
suddenly, science is important if it means giving the Obama the finger.


don't ever change, righties.
 
2010-03-28 10:00:04 AM
WTF Indeed: I'll give my paycheck if NASA builds a rocket that sends teabaggers into the sun.

Let's start a collection. I'm in.
 
2010-03-28 10:00:06 AM
Here's the kicker to all of this:

"What will really hurt, workers say, is the disappearance of the know-how accumulated over decades here at the Cape.

"We lose that knowledge base, it's very hard to get that back," adds Chris Loines, 43, a United Space Alliance contractor who has been launching rockets his entire adult life.
"

It's the same crap that retarded our advancements in space after Nixon canned Apollo, and it's the same thing that will happen again if this goes through. What will happen is we'll see private companies basically re-inventing the wheel (as is happening currently anyway), and all of those decades of accumulated knowledge will go to waste. Essentially we're going to be reverting back to 1961.

Now, before anyone says "Obama is increasing the NASA budget!" let's look at one thing here:
First, it's only a 6bn increase over the next 5 years, or 1.3bn per year. Of that 6bn, 2.5 is dedicated to Constellation closeout costs, and most of the rest (I can't recall the exact numbers at the moment), is dedicated to climate science and all of that. There isn't really a whole lot in there that's going to get manned flight going anywhere.

The August Commission never said that the Constellation program was flat-out unsustainable. It said it was unsustainable given the existing budget (with no alterations). On their recommendation, an increase of 3.1bn per year over the next 10 years would have gotten the thing going. What bothers me is that the administration seems to be cherry-picking the language to make it sound like it would NEVER work. It's completely misleading and isn't going to have any positive effect in deciding the future of manned spaceflight.

Yes, perhaps Ares I should be canned, but I'd say keep working on the Ares V, Orion, the Altair lander, etc. Those are things we are going to NEED if we ever want to get out of LEO again.

That brings me to the next issue I have with this, which is that this plan has no "bold vision," to speak of. Frankly, saying you're going to throw a bunch of ideas to a wall and see what sticks isn't particularly "bold." It's entirely non-committal and reeks of a "not my problem" attitude. The thing is, tech doesn't drive the missions on these type of endeavors, the missions drive the tech. Without a clearly directed mission, we could spend decades developing random pieces of teach and still be no closer to consistently getting beyond LEO.

Frankly, the lack of a committed alternative is what makes this whole budget a bad idea (well, that and redirecting NASA towards climate science. Isn't that NOAA's job? I mean, really...). There's nothing "bold" about having no clear vision whatsoever.
 
2010-03-28 10:01:43 AM
Disgraceful.

One of the few things I agreed with Bush on was the renewed mission to other planetary bodies, including the moon.

/Maybe he thought there were WMD's on it?
 
2010-03-28 10:02:01 AM
American astronauts for years to come will hitch rides to space on Russian rockets.

Yeah, that'll be safe.
 
2010-03-28 10:02:19 AM
What a rug flying to Mars may look like i190.photobucket.com
 
2010-03-28 10:02:22 AM
"We just pulled the rug out from under human space flight,"

Yeah, because those other nations are only putting sub-humans into space. USA USA USA!
 
2010-03-28 10:02:23 AM
ThunderPelvis: Human space flight is a massive f*cking waste of money and should have had the plug pulled years ago. Robots can explore the solar system more efficiently and for vastly less money than sending up people, with their pathetic and shockingly expensive needs for food, oxygen, bathrooms HDTV, cheetos, beer and porn.

FTF all of us.
 
2010-03-28 10:02:49 AM
Which brings up the question, what company has the kind of investment power to build up a space program and is willing to risk it?

...

BRB, e-mailing Google and Microsoft.
 
2010-03-28 10:02:52 AM
The scientific advancements the space program have given humanity are worth the cost. Not to mention that we, as a species, are doomed if we don't get off this rock and out into space.

Free healthcare for everyone, death for our species!
 
2010-03-28 10:03:14 AM
Wow, what a great first 18 months for the Messiah:

Cancels spaceflight

Record unemployment

Record deficits

Record congressional approval lows

Destroys the economy

Enslaves health care recipients

First president to not attend a church

Arranges for the state paid slaughter of tens of thousands of babies

spends a trillion dollars on a slush fund for democrats

Destroys then buys out GM and Chrysler

Does the 'Chicago' on Toyota (a major employer in my state)

Establishes Presidential orders as the new way to circumvent the will of the people, the supreme court, and congress (thats a tyranny BTW)

Appoints cabinet officials who think we have it too good and who want to get rid of...personal motorized transportation, large refrigerators, air conditioning, hot water on demand, large homes, air conditioned shopping malls.

Allows Iran to develop Nukes.

Signs a deal to get rid of ours.

Fumbles North Korea.

Moves the 911 terrorists that we HAVE caught to civilian court, where they are scheduled to be released without trial.

Insults the police.

Insults the military.

Accuses 60% of the population of supporting domestic terrorism.

Seizes millions of acres of land for the Government.

Fumbles the Haitian earthquake.

And the best part is the Media gives him a pass on all of this...

Taa Daa!
 
2010-03-28 10:03:23 AM
Tor_Eckman: FTA:

The new NASA strategy shifts the task of launching astronauts to low Earth orbit from traditional government contracts to commercial contracts. If the private sector can create a taxi to space, NASA can focus on new technologies and longer journeys in the solar system.

So letting the free market in on the space program is a bad thing I suppose. I hope that all of you bootstrappy capitalists that have been telling us that the government can't do anything right for the last year will be in here defending this shift from the govt to the private sector.


What I'm wondering is how this is really "commercial" spaceflight? Yeah you're paying contractors for their rockets, but most all previous launch vehicles have been built by contractors anyway? And it's not like they'll be operating in a truly free-market environment either. Their only clients are going to be NASA, the DoD, and maybe some science agencies. They'll only be profitable insofar as the government is willing to pay them.
 
2010-03-28 10:04:04 AM
Well first of all the only thing it disrupts is American human spaceflight, the rest of the world is perfectly fine.

And if Private companies can fill in the void, with the backing of a reorganized NASA, then it isn't even the end of American human spaceflight.

The only thing it is the end of is American government human spaceflight, which isn't as big of deal.
 
2010-03-28 10:05:19 AM
Shatner's Bassoon: "We just pulled the rug out from under human space flight,"

Yeah, because those other nations are only putting sub-humans into space. USA USA USA!


I hear India is going to send a crew of cobras into space.

"I've had enough of these motherfarking snakes on this motherfarking shuttle!"
 
2010-03-28 10:06:11 AM
FTA:

"The new NASA strategy shifts the task of launching astronauts to low Earth orbit from traditional government contracts to commercial contracts."

All the administration is doing is opening our space program up to competition. I am an aerospace engineer with friends working on NASA contracts and this is a good thing. NASA and it's contractors are incredibly inefficient. Sounds like something the Republicans should have done long ago. Not something I would have expected of the Democrats, to be honest.
 
2010-03-28 10:06:18 AM
remus:

Obviously, it doesn't matter to you that the cure to cancer, aids, and a million other medical problems may possibly be found in space?


Best argument I've ever heard in my life. Send a guy to the moon and he might trip over the cure for AIDS, maybe landing in a puddle of the cure for cancer while he's at it. Well I'm sold; reinstate the program!
 
2010-03-28 10:06:19 AM
I posit that we should get good at sending probes first. Half our missions to Mars didn't make it back around the other side. Let's learn to walk before we crawl.

The only compelling reason people keep touting is that we breed like a virus and shiat where we sleep so we need to find other places to befoul, and that's the wrong reason to do it.
 
2010-03-28 10:06:31 AM
We did? Why didn't anyone tell me we finally had flying carpet technology?

/or hawking mats, whatever you want to call them
 
2010-03-28 10:06:34 AM
ThunderPelvis: Human space flight is a massive f*cking waste of money and should have had the plug pulled years ago. Robots can explore the solar system more efficiently and for vastly less money than sending up people, with their pathetic and shockingly expensive needs for food, oxygen, and bathrooms.

You still need heavy lift rockets to get those robotic payloads into space. Whether its the Ares 1, 4 or 5, we need to get the technology and engineering for those developed and workable.

Ares 1: Total payload capacity would be 25,400 kg (56,000 lb) to LEO.
Ares 4: Total payload capacity would be 41,100 kg (90,610 lb) to 240 miles (386 km) for direct trans-lunar injection.
Ares 5: The Ares V would be able to carry over 414,000 lb (188 metric tons) to Low Earth orbit (LEO), and 157,000 lb (71 metric tons) to the Moon.[1] Upon completion the Ares V would be the most powerful rocket ever built, lifting more into orbit than even the American Saturn V, the failed Soviet N-1

We've lived in LEO for years and now its time to take the next step, living on foreign bodies. The moon is the first step with mars a possible follow up.
 
2010-03-28 10:06:43 AM
Hatman013: Here's the kicker to all of this:

"What will really hurt, workers say, is the disappearance of the know-how accumulated over decades here at the Cape.

"We lose that knowledge base, it's very hard to get that back," adds Chris Loines, 43, a United Space Alliance contractor who has been launching rockets his entire adult life."

It's the same crap that retarded our advancements in space after Nixon canned Apollo, and it's the same thing that will happen again if this goes through. What will happen is we'll see private companies basically re-inventing the wheel (as is happening currently anyway), and all of those decades of accumulated knowledge will go to waste. Essentially we're going to be reverting back to 1961.

Now, before anyone says "Obama is increasing the NASA budget!" let's look at one thing here:
First, it's only a 6bn increase over the next 5 years, or 1.3bn per year. Of that 6bn, 2.5 is dedicated to Constellation closeout costs, and most of the rest (I can't recall the exact numbers at the moment), is dedicated to climate science and all of that. There isn't really a whole lot in there that's going to get manned flight going anywhere.

The August Commission never said that the Constellation program was flat-out unsustainable. It said it was unsustainable given the existing budget (with no alterations). On their recommendation, an increase of 3.1bn per year over the next 10 years would have gotten the thing going. What bothers me is that the administration seems to be cherry-picking the language to make it sound like it would NEVER work. It's completely misleading and isn't going to have any positive effect in deciding the future of manned spaceflight.

Yes, perhaps Ares I should be canned, but I'd say keep working on the Ares V, Orion, the Altair lander, etc. Those are things we are going to NEED if we ever want to get out of LEO again.

That brings me to the next issue I have with this, which is that this plan has no "bold vision," to speak of. Frankly, saying you're going to throw a bunch of ideas to a wall and see what sticks isn't particularly "bold." It's entirely non-committal and reeks of a "not my problem" attitude. The thing is, tech doesn't drive the missions on these type of endeavors, the missions drive the tech. Without a clearly directed mission, we could spend decades developing random pieces of teach and still be no closer to consistently getting beyond LEO.

Frankly, the lack of a committed alternative is what makes this whole budget a bad idea (well, that and redirecting NASA towards climate science. Isn't that NOAA's job? I mean, really...). There's nothing "bold" about having no clear vision whatsoever.


Yes.

www.inameri.ca
 
2010-03-28 10:07:24 AM
remus: NGM: /Rather have health care

You do realize just how many scientific advancements have taken place as a direct result of the Space Program? Obviously, it doesn't matter to you that the cure to cancer, aids, and a million other medical problems may possibly be found in space? Perhaps the weightless environment, perhaps some substance found in the moon? Who knows? But, as long as you get that "free" visit to the doc for some rash cream, you're all good with that?


Nah, he doesn't realize. He's probably one of those "We should stop shooting money up into space" people, who doesn't understand that this means research and high tech jobs, which in turn employs researchers and other high tech employees.

See http://www.techbriefs.com/tech-briefs/biomedical-techbriefs for examples. A basic understanding of healthcare would allow anyone to see several things on the front page of this alone which could improve healthcare quality and efficiency.
 
2010-03-28 10:08:35 AM
Snarfangel: Great, now I'll *never* be able to escape this planet.

Sure you will, you'll just have to do it the same way everybody else does.
 
2010-03-28 10:10:31 AM
archichris: Destroys the economy

Enslaves health care recipients

First president to not attend a church


And we all know that last point is absolutely the most important one as far as getting his job done is concerned.
 
2010-03-28 10:10:55 AM
archichris: Wow, what a great first 18 months for the Messiah:

Cancels spaceflight

Record unemployment

Record deficits

Record congressional approval lows

Destroys the economy

Enslaves health care recipients

First president to not attend a church

Arranges for the state paid slaughter of tens of thousands of babies

spends a trillion dollars on a slush fund for democrats

Destroys then buys out GM and Chrysler

Does the 'Chicago' on Toyota (a major employer in my state)

Establishes Presidential orders as the new way to circumvent the will of the people, the supreme court, and congress (thats a tyranny BTW)

Appoints cabinet officials who think we have it too good and who want to get rid of...personal motorized transportation, large refrigerators, air conditioning, hot water on demand, large homes, air conditioned shopping malls.

Allows Iran to develop Nukes.

Signs a deal to get rid of ours.

Fumbles North Korea.

Moves the 911 terrorists that we HAVE caught to civilian court, where they are scheduled to be released without trial.

Insults the police.

Insults the military.

Accuses 60% of the population of supporting domestic terrorism.

Seizes millions of acres of land for the Government.

Fumbles the Haitian earthquake.

And the best part is the Media gives him a pass on all of this...

Taa Daa!


tl;dr
 
2010-03-28 10:11:24 AM
Non-evil Monkey: And if Private companies can fill in the void, with the backing of a reorganized NASA, then it isn't even the end of American human spaceflight.

The only thing it is the end of is American government human spaceflight, which isn't as big of deal.


I've personally dealt with private companies in the space flight business. It's like dealing with kindergartners. They were so far behind the government agencies and made many, many mistakes. One of my satellites is currently orbiting like a dead rock up there; it was killed by a private company's crappy launch vehicle. That was $60M of YOUR tax money wasted by a private company's mistakes.

I won't write a long thing about foreign countries pursuing space flight, but I suggest you don't expect them to either achieve or share.
 
2010-03-28 10:11:46 AM
Having worked on the Space Station project (back when it was a 10 billion dollar project), the idea of letting companies build launch systems without 9 NASA managers each per engineer, welder and coffee fetcher makes sense.

"Space is too important to be left to governments."
 
2010-03-28 10:11:56 AM
blazemongr: archichris: Destroys the economy

Enslaves health care recipients

First president to not attend a church

And we all know that last point is absolutely the most important one as far as getting his job done is concerned.


It is nice when the most powerful world leader on earth has some sort of Moral Compass, but all things being equal I would prefer he has the one which has love and forgiveness as its litany.
 
2010-03-28 10:12:16 AM
Spaceship Two (new window)

private spaceflight is better anyway.
 
2010-03-28 10:12:32 AM
Sorry to disappoint the non-reality based community, but the likelihood of there being a 'cure for cancer' in some 'mystery substance' on the moon are nil.

If there were any short-term productive reasons for going far into space, the private sphere would be on it like stink on the mentations of those who put their silly wishes ahead of the utile filter of reality.

If you sci-fi nerds think this is such a great idea, why don't you pool your allowances and finance it yourselves? When government attempts the impossible, it devolves to mere thievery. The Greeks in the classic era said this.

Spin-offs? That rationale could be applied to anything. Think of the bio-medical experiments the SS was uniquely able to commit!
 
2010-03-28 10:13:40 AM
I agree with Obama on this one.
We have no money for these type of programs.
If people really want this, they can find a way to pay for it themselves.


Space isn't going anywhere. When we get to a more stable economy we can play in space again. Although, i would rather spend the money on feeding the poor or increasing welfare payments.
 
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