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(ABC)   Turns out all those swine flu headlines were a repeat from 1918   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 36
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11315 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Mar 2010 at 2:21 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-03-25 02:27:31 PM
I thought the fact the two strains were related was exactly why folks were flipping out in the first place. I believe they are also both related to the 1970s swine flu.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza#History (new window)

farm4.static.flickr.com

"Viruses that evolve over time often share similar characteristics."
 
2010-03-25 02:32:20 PM
i dont want another month long rash of swine flu threads. It really really got out of hand
 
2010-03-25 02:32:43 PM
You are late to the party, subby.
 
2010-03-25 02:35:16 PM
Cyborg77: I thought the fact the two strains were related was exactly why folks were flipping out in the first place.

It was, because the 1918 virus was believed to cause cytokine storms. Now they just have more proof that they're similar.

The other reason people were flipping out is that normally the flu kills old people, who everyone expects to die, and this time around it was killing little kids and pregnant women. Probably because it was an unknown flu for anyone under the age of 60.

Fortunately, we got lucky, or tamiflu worked, or the vaccine worked, or some combination of the three, and it was a very widespread yet mild flu for most people. *shrug*. Better luck next time, mother nature.
 
2010-03-25 02:37:08 PM
Not overly surprised. I remember seeing a couple of documentaries about 2 years back regarding swine flu. When they started talking about how the 'H1N1' was the same strain as ones that have been retrieved from WWI tissue samples, I started thinking it was only a matter of time before someone recreated it in a lab somewhere.

I mean, before it recombined on its own.

/really
//no, really
///ok, fine
 
2010-03-25 02:40:03 PM
Dear NBC news. Everyone with half a brain was already aware of this.

Please stop being such a dumbass.
 
2010-03-25 02:40:11 PM
The reason why people were 'flipping out' was that initial indicators of the outbreak showed a rather high mortality rate. Never mind that nobody really bothered to correct for the fact as per usual, the people who go to the hospital severely ill are severely ill and tend not to live to begin with.

Scientifically, you worry about things like this because flu is a segmented virus. Which means the virus has 'chromosome like bits'. However, unlike mammalian cells, they lack a fine mechanism for incorperating the correct number and type of genome fragments.

Thus, if an animal (pig) gets infected by both the swine varient and a human varient of flu, output viruses can contain genomic material from both parental serotypes. THUS creating a human specific pathogen with genetic material from the swine varient, which one assumes humans have no adaptive immune defense against.

Now, with bird flu, we've seen a lot of that over the years and an accumulation of antibodies to those types of flu viruses means we might have some partial recognition to their antigens. Which, given somatic hypermutation in B-cells (causing what is fundamentally genomic instability at the receptive sites of the antibodies) means you can get your immune system adapting to a poorly recognized antigen.

All and all, I think this lends a bit more evident to the whole 1918 outbreak was compounded by crappy health care and the war, piss poor record keeping and poor diagnosis.
 
2010-03-25 02:41:16 PM
Cyborg77: I thought the fact the two strains were related was exactly why folks were flipping out in the first place. I believe they are also both related to the 1970s swine flu.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swine_influenza#History (new window)



"Viruses that evolve over time often share similar characteristics."


But we know evolution is a liberal myth so this all just Liberal MSM Media propaganda.
 
2010-03-25 02:41:42 PM
Did President Madagascar close the Ports in 1918?
 
2010-03-25 02:42:42 PM
Ashelth: The reason why people were 'flipping out' was that initial indicators of the outbreak showed a rather high mortality rate. Never mind that nobody really bothered to correct for the fact as per usual, the people who go to the hospital severely ill are severely ill and tend not to live to begin with.

Actually it does have a high mortality rate based on age. (compared to normal flu) That isn't untrue.
 
2010-03-25 02:43:25 PM
"It's just a little airborne, it's still good"

// Swine flew
 
2010-03-25 02:43:34 PM
Ashelth: The reason why people were 'flipping out' was that initial indicators of the outbreak showed a rather high mortality rate. Never mind that nobody really bothered to correct for the fact as per usual, the people who go to the hospital severely ill are severely ill and tend not to live to begin with.

Scientifically, you worry about things like this because flu is a segmented virus. Which means the virus has 'chromosome like bits'. However, unlike mammalian cells, they lack a fine mechanism for incorperating the correct number and type of genome fragments.

Thus, if an animal (pig) gets infected by both the swine varient and a human varient of flu, output viruses can contain genomic material from both parental serotypes. THUS creating a human specific pathogen with genetic material from the swine varient, which one assumes humans have no adaptive immune defense against.

Now, with bird flu, we've seen a lot of that over the years and an accumulation of antibodies to those types of flu viruses means we might have some partial recognition to their antigens. Which, given somatic hypermutation in B-cells (causing what is fundamentally genomic instability at the receptive sites of the antibodies) means you can get your immune system adapting to a poorly recognized antigen.

All and all, I think this lends a bit more evident to the whole 1918 outbreak was compounded by crappy health care and the war, piss poor record keeping and poor diagnosis.
blonde TV reporterettes with lithpth babbling on about how we're all gonna die, 24/7 for months.


HTH
 
2010-03-25 02:43:57 PM
Turns out subby's headline is a repeat from LAST YEAR
 
2010-03-25 02:46:46 PM
www.unicusmagazine.com
Nothing to see here, move along.

/hot
 
2010-03-25 02:51:24 PM
Corvus: Actually it does have a high mortality rate based on age. (compared to normal flu) That isn't untrue.

Did it, or was this just one of these things everybody kept repeating?
 
2010-03-25 02:55:41 PM
Corvus: Dear NBC news. Everyone with half a brain was already aware of this.

Please stop being such a dumbass.


abc news, ABC news
 
2010-03-25 02:55:43 PM
farm4.static.flickr.com

"The people who were susceptible to the Spanish Flu died from it back in 1918, all 500 million of them. Those of us alive today are the descendants of those genetically resistant to it, which is why it didn't affect us as badly."
 
2010-03-25 03:43:47 PM
But think of the money they made this time....say lets engineer another panic.

/Stupid americans, even stupider than in 77.
///These "medical experts" need to be brought up on terrorism charges.
\\obvious scam was obvious from the beginning.
 
2010-03-25 03:45:28 PM
AnotherDisillusionedCollegeStudent: "The people who were susceptible to the Spanish Flu died from it back in 1918, all 500 million of them. Those of us alive today are the descendants of those genetically resistant to it, which is why it didn't affect us as badly."

You fail at Genetics, romero.
 
2010-03-25 03:49:47 PM
mesmer242:
It was, because the 1918 virus was believed to cause cytokine storms. Now they just have more proof that they're similar.

The other reason people were flipping out is that normally the flu kills old people, who everyone expects to die, and this time around it was killing little kids and pregnant women. Probably because it was an unknown flu for anyone under the age of 60.

Fortunately, we got lucky, or tamiflu worked, or the vaccine worked, or some combination of the three, and it was a very widespread yet mild flu for most people. *shrug*. Better luck next time, mother nature.


Many people forget that the 1918 flu started in 1916, and it took a couple years of circling the globe to come back super deadly. Historically speaking we are at 1916-1917 right now. The 1918 flu was fairly benign in 1916 and 1917. Yet another thing thing flu may have in common.

I just expect the governments of the world to make a larger push to get vaccinated, daily tax dollars go towards instructing the masses to get their mind control injections, er I mean flu vaccinations. The eagerness of the government to give these shots coupled with the statement that its not a bad infection and no one needs the shots, but dont forget to get your shot just turned me off getting vaccinated for this particular virus.

The mystery death plague in Ukraine was the really scary thing, WHO first said its h1n1 then changed their minds and said they dont know wth it is. Over 100k people were dying in a single day there from it. The news barely said anything about it.
 
2010-03-25 04:14:45 PM
AnotherDisillusionedCollegeStudent: "The people who were susceptible to the Spanish Flu died from it back in 1918, all 500 million of them. Those of us alive today are the descendants of those genetically resistant to it, which is why it didn't affect us as badly."

Wow, seriously?

Apparently someone read some vaguely similar theory on epigenetics and how certain markers may be (key words: may be) left behind in those of European descent from the days of the Black Plague. It's somewhat plausible on the surface but nigh on impossible to provide proof.

One of the reasons the 1918 outbreak spread so quickly was because of a very large (relatively speaking) movement of people going home from the war. It was in part due to many transmission vectors all at once.

This time we have the intertubes and talking heads telling us how much we need to panic about the New Epidemic. We now have a much larger global population and a great many people moving about the globe on a daily basis, but we were also able to mobilize and adjust our tactics this time.

I certainly don't claim to present a complete picture of the situation, just a few factors that may have swayed the outcome one way or the other.

/doesn't actually know shiat
//more of an amateur information aggregator
 
2010-03-25 04:18:11 PM
Corvus: Ashelth: The reason why people were 'flipping out' was that initial indicators of the outbreak showed a rather high mortality rate. Never mind that nobody really bothered to correct for the fact as per usual, the people who go to the hospital severely ill are severely ill and tend not to live to begin with.

Actually it does have a high mortality rate based on age. (compared to normal flu) That isn't untrue.


http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

Of particular note would be the spike overall deaths in early 2008 from flu, far far greater than what happened in 2009. However what is interesting is the increase of pediatric deaths this year. Which given that our infant mortality rate is going to shiat in a hand basket might be an aggravating factor left off in the CDC study.
 
2010-03-25 04:22:11 PM
Well spring is here and I crawled out of the cave I've been in since fall. Too scared to get the vaccine and just sure I was going to die from the swine flu apocalypse so many spoke of. Well, glad to see we all made it. Who'da guessed it?
 
2010-03-25 04:24:03 PM
None of this can help poor Bad Joe Hall
www.mtrmedia.com

AnotherDisillusionedCollegeStudent "The people who were susceptible to the Spanish Flu"
They called it "Spanish Flu"-yet it started in Kansas....
i8.photobucket.com
 
2010-03-25 04:46:46 PM
mesmer242: Cyborg77: I thought the fact the two strains were related was exactly why folks were flipping out in the first place.

It was, because the 1918 virus was believed to cause cytokine storms. Now they just have more proof that they're similar.

The other reason people were flipping out is that normally the flu kills old people, who everyone expects to die, and this time around it was killing little kids and pregnant women. Probably because it was an unknown flu for anyone under the age of 60.

Fortunately, we got lucky, or tamiflu worked, or the vaccine worked, or some combination of the three, and it was a very widespread yet mild flu for most people. *shrug*. Better luck next time, mother nature.


Or maybe... just maybe... people's own God-given immune system worked!! Nah... it must've been the vaccine.
 
2010-03-25 04:58:08 PM
non compos mentat: AnotherDisillusionedCollegeStudent: "The people who were susceptible to the Spanish Flu died from it back in 1918, all 500 million of them. Those of us alive today are the descendants of those genetically resistant to it, which is why it didn't affect us as badly."

Wow, seriously?

Apparently someone read some vaguely similar theory on epigenetics and how certain markers may be (key words: may be) left behind in those of European descent from the days of the Black Plague. It's somewhat plausible on the surface but nigh on impossible to provide proof.

One of the reasons the 1918 outbreak spread so quickly was because of a very large (relatively speaking) movement of people going home from the war. It was in part due to many transmission vectors all at once.

This time we have the intertubes and talking heads telling us how much we need to panic about the New Epidemic. We now have a much larger global population and a great many people moving about the globe on a daily basis, but we were also able to mobilize and adjust our tactics this time.

I certainly don't claim to present a complete picture of the situation, just a few factors that may have swayed the outcome one way or the other.

/doesn't actually know shiat
//more of an amateur information aggregator


That theory rests on a number of assumptions.

Military autopsy records have flu deaths ascribed to what is more likely a bacterial infection. Bacterial secondary infections could be possible, but there is also a reasonable chance housing and quarantine conditions are at fault.

The flu systematically wiped out everyone with a common set of HLA alleles. (Which if you look at the state of organ donation I rather doubt).

The flu deaths were either evenly distributed across the world OR there was no movement of people and enrichment of the gene pool after. (I sort of think if you look at society now and immigration we can rule out the latter one).

Oh and I'd put it down to on average we have better health (sanitary conditions) and medical care.
 
2010-03-25 05:03:52 PM
Ashelth: All and all, I think this lends a bit more evident to the whole 1918 outbreak was compounded by crappy health care and the war, piss poor record keeping and poor diagnosis.

The fact that half of Europe was starving at that time certainly didn't help things any.
 
2010-03-25 05:07:41 PM
FlyingJ: They called it "Spanish Flu"-yet it started in Kansas....
i8.photobucket.com


Because it was first noticed in Spain.

It was only in retrospect that they tracked the outbreak chronologically to Kansas. Even then, there are suspicions it got started earlier than that, and didn't start gathering steam until Kansas.
 
2010-03-25 05:09:27 PM
Oh that's right, PhDs. Keep on playing with the 1918 flu virus and see what happens.

www.cinemavoyage.com
 
2010-03-25 05:17:21 PM
As far as I can tell Mexico City's air pollution must have had people's lungs screwed up to begin with.
 
2010-03-25 05:43:44 PM
Ashelth: hospital severely ill are severely ill and tend not to live to begin with.

LOLWUT
 
2010-03-25 05:49:36 PM
BobaFeet: mesmer242: Cyborg77: I thought the fact the two strains were related was exactly why folks were flipping out in the first place.

It was, because the 1918 virus was believed to cause cytokine storms. Now they just have more proof that they're similar.

The other reason people were flipping out is that normally the flu kills old people, who everyone expects to die, and this time around it was killing little kids and pregnant women. Probably because it was an unknown flu for anyone under the age of 60.

Fortunately, we got lucky, or tamiflu worked, or the vaccine worked, or some combination of the three, and it was a very widespread yet mild flu for most people. *shrug*. Better luck next time, mother nature.

Or maybe... just maybe... people's own God-given immune system worked!! Nah... it must've been the vaccine.


Our God-given immune system sometimes doesn't work against all sorts of things... like TB, leprosy, the bubonic plague, small pox, polio, HIV, cholera, malaria, tetanus, whooping cough, syphilis... oh, and which one I am forgetting? Right. Influenza.

I can buy the "better sanitation" argument, and the "it's a different form of influenza" argument, but not the "we've evolved so much in the last 100 years that all those diseases couldn't stand up to our newly minted awesome immune systems so why should we get a vaccine because it's just going to give our kids autism" argument.
 
2010-03-25 08:10:04 PM
Read The Great Infulenza by John M Barry.

A terrific read........
 
2010-03-25 08:57:57 PM
Fomby_Belcher: Oh that's right, PhDs. Keep on playing with the 1918 flu virus and see what happens.

I hear it's a real Tripp.
 
2010-03-25 09:22:56 PM
Came here to make sure the Stanley Cup will still be awarded, leaving satisfied...

/thanks FlyingJ for the remembrance
 
2010-03-26 09:12:15 AM
Fomby_Belcher: Oh that's right, PhDs. Keep on playing with the 1918 flu virus and see what happens.

We get another one hit wonder band?Link (new window)
 
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