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(Yahoo)   Pope benedict may become the first Pope since the middle ages to be forced to resign in disgrace as it is revealed he was warned about another priest who molested over 200 children, but took no action   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 388
    More: Sick, Pope Benedict XVI, Vatican, statute of limitations, juvenile detention centers, sexual dysfunction, archdiocese, Jeff Anderson, congregations  
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23820 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Mar 2010 at 1:13 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-03-25 01:45:31 PM  
Edwardo17: It's only my opinion, but here's what I would like to see; Benedict abdicates in disgrace, which becomes the cause for a powerful reform movement within the church. Ideally, I'd love to see whichever Pope follows Benedict go ahead and winnow through the ranks of the clergy, and any priest found guilty of molesting children should be immediately defrocked and excommunicated, then they should be prosecuted in their home countries under whatever system is present. The fallout would be immense, but if the Church survived, it could begin to rebuild itself into an institution that wouldn't make Baby Jesus cry.

I agree. I am hopeful it will happen
 
2010-03-25 01:45:44 PM  
UtileDysfunktion: I wouldn't condemn an entire religion because of a few sick farks and the idiots that let them get away with it.



But the entire organization IS broken. The problem goes from the priest touching children, up through the entire chain of command, right up to the top.

At what point do you think it IS fair to judge an organization by its actions?!?!?

I would agree if this were a few isolated cases, but this is clearly a systematic cover up designed to prevent the truth from getting out to avoid liability and embarrassment. I mean for fark's sake, they didn;t even move the pedophile rapists to a monastery without children!!!!

THEY GAVE THEM COVER AND ASSIGNED THEM TO A NEW PARISH WITH FRESH CHILDREN TO RAPE.
 
2010-03-25 01:46:07 PM  
Mugato: Seriously though, how is anyone still Catholic?

www.trappistwestmalle.be
farm1.static.flickr.com
It's not all bad.
 
2010-03-25 01:46:10 PM  
pinual: vernonFL: Trivia Jockey: That would be hilarious. I think it would put a dent in that whole "infallible" theory, huh?

The Pope is infallible in matters dealing with the rules of the Catholic Church. He is NOT infallible in every single thing he does.

So is child rape not against the rules of the church?


OF COURSE IT'S AGAINST THE RULES AND THE LAW YOU TROLLING, IDIOTIC, MOTHERF....

I'm sorry, that was quite visceral, you were saying?
 
2010-03-25 01:46:40 PM  
Mugato:

Apparently not. So feel free, give money every week to child molesters. I'm sure you'll get into heaven knowing you've done that. Meeting the kids there might be a bit awkward though.


You're so shocking. I can't handle your dissent. You have shaken me to my core
 
2010-03-25 01:46:47 PM  
Tatsuma: swingerhead: Where did the celabacy come from?

answer here


It was also a way for the medieval Church, which made the rule, to inherit the property of clergy after they died instead of it going to family.
 
2010-03-25 01:47:07 PM  
DON.MAC: From about 200 AD there is a theory that Paul's church and the Vatican have been the anti-christ.
I'm still looking for evidence to disprove that one.




Paul was the David Koresh of his day. The difference is that he successfully hijacked an entire religion, and everyone fell for it. It must be fun to take advantage of the desperate and weak minded, especially when it boosts your own ego to the moon.
 
2010-03-25 01:47:08 PM  
"OMG! You're an atheist! Where do you get your morals?!?"

"I treat others with respect, regardless of their race, sex or sexual orientation. and as I would want to be treated by others. I did not need someone to teach this to me, it seemed the right thing to do. Where do you get your morals from?"

"I get mine from a book written 2000 years ago that is ok with slavery, treats women as inferiors, commands you to murder your children if they are disrespectful, and my church leader protects pedophiles from prosecution, why do you ask?"
 
2010-03-25 01:47:20 PM  
namegoeshere: I farking CANNOT STAND the farking double standard that is happening here!

What the HOLY FARKING HELL - if ANY other group abused children and covered it up in such a way, law enforcement, and society as a whole would farking tar, feather, hang, get all burny n' stuff...

But because it's the Church...

AAaahhhh!!! My head gets all asplodey.


Just think how lucky we are that cops don't have to take the vow of celibacy; anybody who's ever been in a car would be molested on a regular basis.

But only on weekends and at the end of the month.
 
2010-03-25 01:47:28 PM  
40yoVirgin: Makes one think how much JP2 knew about all of this, seeing how Ratzinger was his right hand man...

As a forced-celibate male with reputedly one of the world's most awesome porn collections, I'm sure JP2's right hand got plenty of practice at "molesting", if you know what I mean.
 
2010-03-25 01:48:26 PM  
Quick lesson on papal infallibility, without a bunch of fancy latin terms:

The pope himself is not infallible. However, when speaking on specific matters of faith, he CAN be. in order for it to be treated as infallible however, he basically has to say it is an infallible statement.

So, the pope can say, "Hey, guys, its cool to eat meat on fridays during lent now", and as a catholic, you would be in the right to say, "Hey, the pope says its cool, so lets all go get cheeseburgers!" You would also be in the right to say "You know, I don't think the pope is right on that one, lets not eat meat".

Then if the next pope comes along and says, "hey the guy before me had it all wrong, and cheeseburgers aren't cool on friday folks!" you would have to stop, and depending on your interpretation of scripture, you may have sinned by hitting up mcdonalds previously. However, during confession, you would be given a pass on it pretty easy.

However, the pope could add weight to his statement and say, in essence, "Hey, its cool to eat meat on fridays during lent, and this is an infallible statement!" In which case, it is now official church law, and should be treated as the word of god.

I believe it has been invoked only once or twice since they came up with the concept, and only on some specific church dogma related thing that people would spend the rest of history arguing over if someone didn't settle.

I honestly think that you will see married priests come in with the next pope, and a bigger roll for women, and a loosening of the rules regarding gays, and that they will be treated as infallible policies of that pope to put an end to these issues.
 
2010-03-25 01:48:27 PM  
swingerhead: Wasnt the first "pope" Peter married and had children? Where did the celabacy come from?

IIRC the Diet of Wurms in the 1400 or 1500's : it was mean as a reformist step in response to Martin Luther's complaints against the church. Luther had compalined that too much church money was being spent supporting the children (often illegitimate to be sure) or priests and Bishops.

In my opinion this policy is neck and neck with refusal to ordain women for the title of "stupid rule that will probably destroy the church as we know it"
 
2010-03-25 01:48:55 PM  
Edwardo17: It's only my opinion, but here's what I would like to see; Benedict abdicates in disgrace, which becomes the cause for a powerful reform movement within the church. Ideally, I'd love to see whichever Pope follows Benedict go ahead and winnow through the ranks of the clergy, and any priest found guilty of molesting children should be immediately defrocked and excommunicated, then they should be prosecuted in their home countries under whatever system is present. The fallout would be immense, but if the Church survived, it could begin to rebuild itself into an institution that wouldn't make Baby Jesus cry.

That would be great! Hmm, a clear, concise, and well thought out opinion that doesn't resort to hyperbole.

WTF are you doing on FARK?
 
2010-03-25 01:49:17 PM  
images7.cafepress.com
 
2010-03-25 01:49:29 PM  
vernonFL: Trivia Jockey: That would be hilarious. I think it would put a dent in that whole "infallible" theory, huh?

The Pope is infallible in matters dealing with the rules of the Catholic Church. He is NOT infallible in every single thing he does.


Like reporting sexual abuse?
 
2010-03-25 01:49:54 PM  
jn1512: 2wolves: I'm still of the opinion that the child rapes so far exposed are a fraction of what happened.

Don't say "molested," this was/is rape.

You said "rape" twice.


I guess I gotta be the one...

I like rape.
 
2010-03-25 01:50:00 PM  
brantgoose: Also, St Benedict prophesized: before the end of the world his Order, known also as the Olivetans, will triumphantly lead the Catholic Church in its fight against evil. NOTHING was mentioned as leading as a pope!

The Catholic Church IS the evil. For this to be true, the Catholic Church needs to be destroyed.

Let's hope...
 
2010-03-25 01:50:26 PM  
This text is now purple: Mugato: Seriously though, how is anyone still Catholic?



It's not all bad.


What is that 2nd picture? I must have it!
 
2010-03-25 01:50:57 PM  
FTA: Lombardi also said that Murphy's age, poor health and a lack of more recent allegations were factors in the decision not to defrock him.

Wow. and people biatch about the fact that they can't fire teachers w/tenure
 
2010-03-25 01:51:06 PM  
Can we just take a minute and step back from the Catholic bashing for a second. Now, I understand this may be difficult for some of you, who seem to have a grudge against the Church for whatever reason, but just hear me out.....

Blackballing an entire organization and its members simply for the sins of some portion doesn't actually make any sense. Those who are guilty of the crimes and guilty of coverups should be punished as severely as possible. However, calling for the bombing of a church is just a step over the line. Isn't it fun to have rational, civil discussions on the internets?

/welcometofark
//sheeple
///blah blah blah
 
2010-03-25 01:51:43 PM  
Hang On Voltaire: Mugato: Seriously though, how is anyone still Catholic?

Seriously we don't care what you think


The REAL answer...
 
2010-03-25 01:52:21 PM  
SpectroBoy: UtileDysfunktion: I wouldn't condemn an entire religion because of a few sick farks and the idiots that let them get away with it.



But the entire organization IS broken. The problem goes from the priest touching children, up through the entire chain of command, right up to the top.

At what point do you think it IS fair to judge an organization by its actions?!?!?

I would agree if this were a few isolated cases, but this is clearly a systematic cover up designed to prevent the truth from getting out to avoid liability and embarrassment. I mean for fark's sake, they didn;t even move the pedophile rapists to a monastery without children!!!!

THEY GAVE THEM COVER AND ASSIGNED THEM TO A NEW PARISH WITH FRESH CHILDREN TO RAPE.



I agree. It is systematic. That's the problem.

I was raised catholic. I have come to be embarrased to say I'm catholic. Not because catholics are bad but because the church has done the inexcusable. The church should be ashamed and hopefully reform will happen.
 
2010-03-25 01:52:37 PM  
 
2010-03-25 01:52:41 PM  
Trivia Jockey: vernonFL: The Pope is infallible in matters dealing with the rules of the Catholic Church. He is NOT infallible in every single thing he does.


Isn't that splitting of hairs kind of objectively ridiculous? How can a man be infallible at some things, but not others? I mean, if a guy can make a mistake, what magically prevents him from making a mistake when it comes to the Church? Stupid.


It's even a bit more complex than that. He is only infalliable on matter of faith and dogma when speaking formally ex cathedra (from the chair) something Popes have only done TWICE since the infallability doctrine was recognized by vatican I in the 1850's. As to what would stop him from being fallible in that situation? well when I asked that in 8th grade confirmation classes an eon ago, the rather flinty-eye Irish priest who was running them suggested that the Almighty would "call the Pope home" via sudden massive heart attack before allowing him to speak fallibly in such a situation
 
2010-03-25 01:52:49 PM  
Hang On Voltaire: You're so shocking. I can't handle your dissent. You have shaken me to my core

Raping a twelve year old orphan helps get rid of that feeling. Or so I've heard.
 
2010-03-25 01:53:06 PM  
Jebdiahbob: Can we just take a minute and step back from the Catholic bashing for a second. Now, I understand this may be difficult for some of you, who seem to have a grudge against the Church for whatever reason, but just hear me out.....

Blackballing an entire organization and its members simply for the sins of some portion doesn't actually make any sense. Those who are guilty of the crimes and guilty of coverups should be punished as severely as possible. However, calling for the bombing of a church is just a step over the line. Isn't it fun to have rational, civil discussions on the internets?

/welcometofark
//sheeple
///blah blah blah


I normally agree with your point, but in most organizations, the leader is just the most powerful member. in the case of the catholic church, he is the living embodiment of gods word on earth(or so they say), so you sort of have to call the whole thing into question.
 
2010-03-25 01:53:28 PM  
Jebdiahbob: Blackballing an entire organization and its members simply for the sins of some portion doesn't actually make any sense. Those who are guilty of the crimes and guilty of coverups should be punished as severely as possible. However, calling for the bombing of a church is just a step over the line. Isn't it fun to have rational, civil discussions on the internets?

When the infrastructure of the organization has taken part in the cover-up of such heinous crimes, all the way to the top echelon, yes is IS justified to call for that organization to be dismantled.
 
2010-03-25 01:55:32 PM  
SchlingFocker: Being a member of the Catholic Church IS a disgrace.

From every piece of shiat lackey sitting in the pews on up to the pope himself, they all walking failures.

Here's to hoping the Muslims start planting IEDs outside your churches.


You sound happy.
 
2010-03-25 01:55:36 PM  
The Catholic really needs to get rid of that whole, Pope = infallible thing. It's a 19th century invention anyway.
 
2010-03-25 01:57:47 PM  
vernonFL 2010-03-25 09:59:30 AM
Trivia Jockey: That would be hilarious. I think it would put a dent in that whole "infallible" theory, huh?

The Pope is infallible in matters dealing with the rules of the Catholic Church. He is NOT infallible in every single thing he does.

Umm yes he is. He is a mere mortal nothing more nothing less. He is infallible in anything he does. But I'm betting my diehard catholic heighbors will have some reason why this behaviour was OK, when they have the audacity to condemn people who have abortions etc.
Remember the catholic church in nothing but organized crime, an organization set up by a bunch of men, with rules made up by a bunch of men who want to control people and get their hands on peoples $$. (this whole paragraph can pretty much apply to any religion)
 
2010-03-25 01:57:48 PM  
Hang On Voltaire: Mugato:

Apparently not. So feel free, give money every week to child molesters. I'm sure you'll get into heaven knowing you've done that. Meeting the kids there might be a bit awkward though.

You're so shocking. I can't handle your dissent. You have shaken me to my core


Well now you're committing the sin of bearing false witness. You're really gathering up divine charges.
 
2010-03-25 01:57:48 PM  
LineNoise: However, the pope could add weight to his statement and say, in essence, "Hey, its cool to eat meat on fridays during lent, and this is an infallible statement!" In which case, it is now official church law, and should be treated as the word of god.

So basically, it's Simon Says.

Does some sort of transformation occur when he adds the extra bit? Like with He-Man?
 
2010-03-25 01:58:37 PM  
Don't get your hopes up, Subby. He was already criticized for leading that office when his name came up as a Pope candidate. The controversy was that he knew about a lot of these things and did nothing.
 
2010-03-25 01:59:03 PM  
Jebdiahbob: Can we just take a minute and step back from the Catholic Nazi bashing for a second. Now, I understand this may be difficult for some of you, who seem to have a grudge against the Church party for whatever reason, but just hear me out.....

Blackballing an entire organization and its members simply for the sins of some portion doesn't actually make any sense. Those who are guilty of the crimes and guilty of coverups should be punished as severely as possible. However, calling for the bombing of a church country is just a step over the line. Isn't it fun to have rational, civil discussions on the internets?

/welcometofark
//sheeple
///blah blah blah


When they pick a Japanese pope, we can change it around again.
 
2010-03-25 01:59:14 PM  
BendreGiant: Jebdiahbob: Can we just take a minute and step back from the Catholic bashing for a second. Now, I understand this may be difficult for some of you, who seem to have a grudge against the Church for whatever reason, but just hear me out.....

Blackballing an entire organization and its members simply for the sins of some portion doesn't actually make any sense. Those who are guilty of the crimes and guilty of coverups should be punished as severely as possible. However, calling for the bombing of a church is just a step over the line. Isn't it fun to have rational, civil discussions on the internets?

/welcometofark
//sheeple
///blah blah blah

I normally agree with your point, but in most organizations, the leader is just the most powerful member. in the case of the catholic church, he is the living embodiment of gods word on earth(or so they say), so you sort of have to call the whole thing into question.


Yeah. Picture the same situation, but instead of the Catholic Church, it is a known cult (and the Pope, it's leader) that we're talking about.

How does it change our perception of the events?
 
2010-03-25 02:01:57 PM  
Jebdiahbob: Blackballing an entire organization and its members simply for the sins of some portion doesn't actually make any sense

...and it applies to every other organization because?
 
2010-03-25 02:02:08 PM  
Hang On Voltaire is a wildly entertaining comment producer.
Blindly ignorant to how reality works and following his faith to unheard of levels of delusion. It must be interesting to have something in your life that makes fact so easily disputed. That turns reason and intelligent debate into "Because God Said! nah!"
 
2010-03-25 02:02:21 PM  
cardinals law and mahoney (sp?) got big promotions for being in about the same situation. I doubt the pope will resign, or get promoted. He'll just pretend like he is distracted and didn't hear you when you ask him about it.
 
2010-03-25 02:03:00 PM  
i34.tinypic.com

farm2.static.flickr.com

ecx.images-amazon.com

upload.wikimedia.org

/Hot, like the place Ratzo will be going one day, if you believe those fairy tales.
 
2010-03-25 02:03:21 PM  
Good, it would serve that Nazi b@st@rd right.

/ex-Catholic.
 
2010-03-25 02:04:28 PM  
midigod: Jamdug!: How does this happen in other religions and it gets no media coverage at all?

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

list goes on and on...

And yet you cite actual media to support your position.

Ironic tag melts.


Not nearly to the same degree. Why is that?
 
2010-03-25 02:05:51 PM  
Never join any organization where they openly refer to you as a member of a flock, for the shepherd has only three interests in sheep: shearing, screwing, and stewing.
 
2010-03-25 02:06:10 PM  
Jebdiahbob: Blackballing an entire organization and its members simply for the sins of some portion doesn't actually make any sense. Those who are guilty of the crimes and guilty of coverups should be punished as severely as possible. However, calling for the bombing of a church is just a step over the line. Isn't it fun to have rational, civil discussions on the internets?

WTF? The Catholic Church has actual rules to shelter and conceal pedophiles. It's not a few priests, it's the organization. And let's not forget that the Catholic Church has done a lot of its own blackballing based on anecdotal citations.
 
2010-03-25 02:07:16 PM  
Cubicle Jockey: Tatsuma 2010-03-25 11:58:57 AM
swingerhead: Where did the celabacy come from?

answer here

Possibly, but probably not.
The Gregorian Reforms were a response to the "Pornocracy" problems that had affected the church in the 10th century. There is also the belief that the Church did it to re-centralize authority and prevent dioceses from passing from father to son.

If you are right, however, the wiki folks should at least mention them on the "Clerical Celibacy" pages.


The concept of asceticism was co-opted by Paul, himself a Roman soldier, from the Stoics. Early Christians tended to be extremely poor (slave classes) and so the idea that one was to be rewarded in an afterlife for living meagerly in this one was highly attractive. Paul also believed that the Second Coming was imminent...like within a generation if not less...and so was preparing early Christians for the return of Jesus. Thus, early Christians were not only anti-sex, but anti-marriage (since it was deemed unnecessary because it leads to sex). After a few centuries had past and Jesus still hadn't come back (and yet now there were Christians EVERYWHERE, meaning someone was either really good at proselytizing or Christians were begetting Christians all over the darn place), Augustine came up with Original Sin to both still condemn sex and justify the continuation of Christians and Christianity through the sex act via marriage. Marriage was not considered a Church sacrament until the Catholic Church started losing members in droves during the Protestant Reformation. Until the Counter-Reformation, there were no Church weddings. One of the big changes in the Protestant Reformation was the issue of celibacy. Luther even married a nun. The merchant class in Europe was the largest than in its prior history and, having grown tired of tithing to the Catholic Church in addition to all the other taxes they paid, backed Luther ('cause let's face it, he probably wasn't the first priest to get all aggro about Church reform).

Or some nonsense like that.


bostonguy: Tatsuma: swingerhead: Where did the celabacy come from?

answer here

It was also a way for the medieval Church, which made the rule, to inherit the property of clergy after they died instead of it going to family.


This is why it prevails, but not from where it originates.



http://www.centuryone.com/0802839894.html
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/aug-marr.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Reformation
 
2010-03-25 02:07:20 PM  
Why don't they go after these farkers under the RICO Act?
 
2010-03-25 02:07:56 PM  
QUESTION:

I keep reading people's posts in here that they're former Catholics. I get the impression that in Europe and in the Catholic populated areas of the U.S., large numbers of the younger generations have left the church. If that's so, how does the Catholic church continue to survive?

From all the former Catholics I've heard about, and the Catholics who are more 'Catholic-Lite,' it makes me wonder if it's a dying religion.

Also, I know nothing about Catholics, being where I'm from. But I agree with others who say that a lot of gay men probably joined the church as priests, thinking their vows and faith in god would be enough to purge their evil desires. After a few years, when they'd normally target adult men for sex, they instead seek the most convenient source, being kids. Makes sense to me, and I'd be surprised if any other psychological pathology were behind it.
 
2010-03-25 02:09:56 PM  
Hang On Voltaire: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad:

Fact: Before he was pope he was a member of the Hitler youth

/true story

As was every boy his age in Germany at the time


Except for the ones who chose to die or suffer for a moral cause

/Hitler frowned on people who had the spine to stick up to him
//holocaust museum - full of fun facts
 
2010-03-25 02:11:01 PM  
EvilEgg: See this is where the Catholics have a problem. Central authority. Protestants probably rape little boys just as much, but they are individual cells like Al Quida, so you can't just go after the leadership.

The problem is that they RAPE LITTLE BOYS, you dumb fark, not that they have centralized leadership. The protestant religious leaders that did this sort of thing should be hung from their thumbs until dead TOO.
 
2010-03-25 02:11:29 PM  
t3.gstatic.com

RIP Ratzinger
 
2010-03-25 02:11:57 PM  
Cythraul: I keep reading people's posts in here that they're former Catholics. I get the impression that in Europe and in the Catholic populated areas of the U.S., large numbers of the younger generations have left the church. If that's so, how does the Catholic church continue to survive?

They are increasing their numbers in Africa.
 
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