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(BBC)   Won't somebody think of the children? One school principal did: "We can help them learn better. We can help them be less stressed by simply changing the time of the school day." Truancy down 27%   (news.bbc.co.uk) divider line 313
    More: Hero, think of the children, teenagers  
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33650 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Mar 2010 at 9:00 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-03-23 03:26:21 PM
Back in my day school started at 6am and we liked it!

/jealous
 
2010-03-23 03:39:28 PM
It's astounding that the most obvious things simply cannot be done because "that's the way we've always done it."

No one should be forced to try to learn anything in school before 11am.

/not a morning person
 
2010-03-23 03:44:11 PM
If you change the definition of "school day" then they will want to change the definition of "marriage." It's a slippery slope
 
2010-03-23 03:46:49 PM
Bukharin: If you change the definition of "school day" then they will want to change the definition of "marriage." It's a slippery slope

I've moved beyond that. I've changed the definition of pi.

/it's now 6, in case you were wondering.
 
2010-03-23 03:50:40 PM
MonkeyAngst: Bukharin: If you change the definition of "school day" then they will want to change the definition of "marriage." It's a slippery slope

I've moved beyond that. I've changed the definition of pi.

/it's now 6, in case you were wondering.


I just changed it back.
:P
 
2010-03-23 03:55:59 PM
Growing up, the elementary schools started latest, middle school a little earlier, and high school earliest (7am?).

The way I always heard it explained was that it reduces bus traffic and congestion all over town, plus frees up the high school buses to be used for elementary routes. Not much scheduling flexibility there.
 
2010-03-23 04:29:13 PM
NikolaiFarkoff: Growing up, the elementary schools started latest, middle school a little earlier, and high school earliest (7am?).

The way I always heard it explained was that it reduces bus traffic and congestion all over town, plus frees up the high school buses to be used for elementary routes. Not much scheduling flexibility there.


That's the way it worked in my town -- elementary school started at 8:40, middle school at 8, and high school at 7:30. By junior year, though, I'd have to be at school at 6:30 for review sessions.

The later schedule makes sense, though one drawback would be that it gives students less of an opportunity to work. Since my high school let out at 2:30, I had a few friends with jobs that started at 3. I suppose some students might then work before school (you can get a 4-hour shift in at a coffee shop), but that would go against the "letting teens sleep in" goal.
 
2010-03-23 04:50:30 PM
Forty-Two: That's the way it worked in my town -- elementary school started at 8:40, middle school at 8, and high school at 7:30. By junior year, though, I'd have to be at school at 6:30 for review sessions.

The later schedule makes sense, though one drawback would be that it gives students less of an opportunity to work. Since my high school let out at 2:30, I had a few friends with jobs that started at 3. I suppose some students might then work before school (you can get a 4-hour shift in at a coffee shop), but that would go against the "letting teens sleep in" goal.


That's the way it worked when I was a kid, too - high school started earliest, then middle school, then elementary. But, there's nothing stopping a district from starting high school last, which still eases congestion. Ex: elementary first at 8:30am, middle at 9:15am and high school at 10:00am. We are so tied to an agrarian tradition when it comes to school, it makes sense to really look at how schools can operate efficiently now that the population is mostly urban.

RE: working teens. When I was in HS, I typically worked closing shift at the mall (5:45p - 9:45p). And this was when I was going to school from 6:45a - 2:45p, so I really had no discernible life until I quit my job and just focused on school. Any teen who keeps a job is pretty motivated; I imagine the change in school day wouldn't be as large a loss to them as the change would be a gain for those who could benefit from sleeping in.
 
2010-03-23 05:00:34 PM
I hadn't thought about the jobs angle...normally, I'd think the HS should start the latest, since people need increasingly more sleep up into their teen years and 20s. Then your sleep need typically drops off by 30-60 minutes per decade.
 
2010-03-23 05:06:07 PM
Shrew2u: We are so tied to an agrarian tradition when it comes to school, it makes sense to really look at how schools can operate efficiently now that the population is mostly urban.

Nonsense! Teenagers need to wake up early and milk the cows! And they need the whole summer off to work on the farm!
 
2010-03-23 05:32:03 PM
And I know this because I took economics, and I'd explain it to yea'... but I flunked that course. Not my fault. They taught it at 8 o'clock in the morning. And there is absolute nothing that you can learn out of one bloodshot eye. After I failed my second test, I grabbed my teacher by the front of the shirt and said "Are you trying to keep this shiat a secret?"

-Lewis Black
 
2010-03-23 05:34:09 PM
The fact is, my brain doesn't function before 9am (and barely functions after that) but I don't think there was a single morning class that I didn't sleep through during four years of high school.
 
2010-03-23 06:05:35 PM
Shrew2u: We are so tied to an agrarian tradition when it comes to school, it makes sense to really look at how schools can operate efficiently now that the population is mostly urban.

It is amazing how much resistance has built up against year-round schools, because so much of the tourism and entertainment industry relies on a summer travel season. Growing up in North Carolina, I would love to have gone to school in the months of June, July, and August if it meant having long stretches of April, Mary, October, and November off from school, when the weather is ideal. But when they moved the NC public school calendar up two weeks to match the college schedule, the beaches threw a fit. There's a law in Virginia which says classes cannot start before Labor Day, bought and paid for in the 80's by lobbyists from Kings Dominion. (new window)
 
2010-03-23 06:09:14 PM
Transportation uber alles.

All scheduling is done around the transportation department. Every teacher knows ths.
 
2010-03-23 07:20:42 PM
We have to remember what matters most about high school: after school sports programs.
 
2010-03-23 07:24:09 PM
...with lessons running 10am-3.40pm.

static.guim.co.uk

Luxury.
 
2010-03-23 07:55:00 PM
Obvious tag must've slept in.
 
2010-03-23 08:24:26 PM
jehovahs witness protection: I just changed it back.

Not until you've written it down.
 
2010-03-23 09:02:53 PM
Won't somebody think of the children?

donstuff.files.wordpress.com
 
2010-03-23 09:03:08 PM
I had to wake up at 5am, catch a bus at 5:45-6:00, then arrive at school for 6:45. I got home around 3:00, then went to work from 5:00-11:00.

Damn, that was probably the busiest time of my life. What a shame.
 
2010-03-23 09:04:07 PM
Another thing to consider is families with two working parents or single parents. If teens start earlier, they get home earlier so they can be at home to watch the younger children while the parents are at work.
 
2010-03-23 09:07:28 PM
Marcus Aurelius: We have to remember what matters most about high school: after school sports programs.

You can always do some of that before school. And I think it actually helps the kids to have something fun and active in the morning before settling into class. I certainly enjoyed doing a hour of jazz band before the academic classes.
 
2010-03-23 09:07:46 PM
Forty-Two: The later schedule makes sense, though one drawback would be that it gives students less of an opportunity to work. Since my high school let out at 2:30, I had a few friends with jobs that started at 3. I suppose some students might then work before school (you can get a 4-hour shift in at a coffee shop), but that would go against the "letting teens sleep in" goal.


We keep raising the retirement age over the years as our life expectancy rises... do we REALLY need to make our high school kids work too? Don't rush them into it. There's plenty of decades for them to work after they graduate.
 
2010-03-23 09:09:01 PM
Studies show that children forced to get up very early in the morning have worse health and lower test scores. Seems to me like this is a very logical solution, just don't force them to get up so early.
 
2010-03-23 09:09:49 PM
Lando Lincoln: It's astounding that the most obvious things simply cannot be done because "that's the way we've always done it."...

www.essentialaudio.com

DAGNABBIT! My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it.
 
2010-03-23 09:10:31 PM
That's actually a good idea. Make up much of the extra time by cutting lunch hour down. I remember it being at least an hour. In this day and age, it should take 30 minutes tops to get your lunch and eat it.
 
2010-03-23 09:11:42 PM
How about kids getting to bed earlier instead of staying up till 1am??? Might this be the problem?

Get your behind to bed earlier!!! I get up at 5:40am every morning, (now that I have a job), and I go to bed right around 9:30ish. NO PROBLEM!

-now get off my lawn
 
2010-03-23 09:14:56 PM
I was sold on this idea the first time I heard about it, a couple of years ago. Teenagers naturally--it seems to be completely natural, anyway--like to stay up late and get up late. I did it, and now I rarely stay up later than 10.

We have our whole lives to be pushed into molds. A couple of hours adjusted to let kids be more like kids wouldn't hurt anyone, and maybe they'd learn a little more.
 
2010-03-23 09:14:57 PM
wildtoast: Get your behind to bed earlier!!! I get up at 5:40am every morning, (now that I have a job), and I go to bed right around 9:30ish. NO PROBLEM!

It doesn't work like that.

It doesn't matter how much I sleep, but when.

My second year of college I got blessed with an 11:30 first class. I could stay up until 5, go to bed, get up at 11 and be wide awake the rest of the day. I could get 9 hours of sleep, but if I had to be up 7 am, I would drag on. I don't think 15 hours of sleep would be able to make me not feel tired at 5 am. However with 4 hours of sleep and getting up at noon I could practically jump out of bed and be dressed and out the door in minutes.

It worked great for my social life, because I always hung out with friends from after school until midnight, then midnight to 5 was homework/movie time. Repeat.
 
2010-03-23 09:15:27 PM
mongbiohazard: We keep raising the retirement age over the years as our life expectancy rises... do we REALLY need to make our high school kids work too? Don't rush them into it. There's plenty of decades for them to work after they graduate.

Their family might need that extra income.
 
2010-03-23 09:15:35 PM
Gulper Eel: ...with lessons running 10am-3.40pm.

Luxury.


Lunch? P.E? Class changes? Isn't that a short amount of time? Had a similar schedule for middle school but it was an hour earlier.
 
2010-03-23 09:16:22 PM
So truancy is down, but is our children learning?
 
2010-03-23 09:18:10 PM
Waking up early sucks balls like no farking other, there's no other way to say it. Getting up in the dark just makes everyone all stabby.

My current company thinks if they give flex time no one will work and since my ceo gets his rox off at the thought of Jack Welsch we're all there by 7:56 and leave by 5:15 (well those of use that are bad employees, others stay longer though that's dwindled since they cut comp time and over time and bonuses and raises and education benefits). If I got in at 9/10 I'd be way more functional but no instead I get to drag my ass in everyday for a standing 8am meeting with the boss/team just to rehash the same crap 80% of the time.

So yeah I can see why sleeping in helped, I think it would help all of us. If I ever end up in a position to decide this for others I would give people the chance to wake up whenever they felt was right for them.
 
2010-03-23 09:18:28 PM
No shiat! I hated morning classes with a passion. You can tell by my report cards which classes were morning classes and which weren't because I was a whole grade point lower in the morning classes. When I hit college I learned about the joy of evening classes and my GPA was pulled up thanks to them. How anyone can learn at 7 am when you are groggy is beyond me.
 
2010-03-23 09:19:02 PM
The Angry Hand of God 2010-03-23 09:02:53 PM
Won't somebody think of the children?


Oh. my. God.

Also, if my high school did this, I would have been in the top 10 of my graduation class, instead of a drop-out. Too much to explain here, but I am deadly serious. Well maybe not top 10, but I would never have gotten anything lower than a B. And I would have been able to play baseball dammit.
 
2010-03-23 09:19:05 PM
This seems like a massive oversight. I mean, if they had just started school around 10 AM to begin with, then there wouldn't be so many ditch diggers, and gas pumpers out there. What a different world it would've been.
 
2010-03-23 09:19:28 PM
Well farking DUHHH. Despite being a straight A student in highschool I skipped around the max allowed number of missed days every semester in highschool just because I didn't want to get up at farking 7 AM
 
2010-03-23 09:20:39 PM
The Angry Hand of God: Won't somebody think of the children?

Wow. I know there are people out there that are that stupid, but I wonder what the paper's motive was? Agreement or mockery. It's sad that it could go either way because it's Arkansas.
 
2010-03-23 09:22:54 PM
Being a teenager and having to get up at the crack of dawn sucks ass. The physiology is definitely different.

As a full-time professional who gets up at five every day with a shiatty commute and a 3-year old at home, I feel more well-rested than I ever did as a teenager.
 
2010-03-23 09:23:31 PM
Who the fark wants to be awake at 7 am, you know what I mean? Besides farmers, WHO?!
 
2010-03-23 09:24:22 PM
The Angry Hand of God: Won't somebody think of the children?

If it's any consolation, I seem to recall the writer of this letter admitting it was satire.
 
2010-03-23 09:25:10 PM
SOCIALISM!
 
2010-03-23 09:26:06 PM
WFern: The Angry Hand of God: Won't somebody think of the children?

If it's any consolation, I seem to recall the writer of this letter admitting it was satire.


If I was made to look like that much of an idiot, I would fabricate an excuse as well.
 
2010-03-23 09:26:08 PM
This may not have worked out previously, but now that parents don't have any jobs to go to, they can take their kids to school whenever they want.
 
2010-03-23 09:26:20 PM
Seriously, I would have to take a nap when I got home from school, almost every day.

Even if I had after school activities I would sleep an hour when I got home after 5.
 
2010-03-23 09:26:35 PM
wildtoast: Get your behind to bed earlier!!! I get up at 5:40am every morning, (now that I have a job), and I go to bed right around 9:30ish. NO PROBLEM!

Early to rise and early to bed makes a man healthy but socially dead.

\There's a 5:40 in the morning now?
 
2010-03-23 09:27:10 PM
Really?

The school I teach at used to start at 7:30am...there were about 400 late kids showing up each morning (usually the same damn kids)...

"OH NOES!" cried the administration. "THESE POOR SNOWFLAKES JUST CAN'T GET HERE ON TIME!" "LET'S PUSH THE START TIME BACK to 8:05am!"

Two years later, and we average about 400 kids late each morning. Same farking kids every day.

Lesson: IDIOTS WILL BE IDIOTS, NO MATTER HOW YOU TRY TO BABY THEM.
 
2010-03-23 09:27:11 PM
tuffsnake: My current company thinks if they give flex time no one will work and since my ceo gets his rox off at the thought of Jack Welsch we're all there by 7:56 and leave by 5:15 (well those of use that are bad employees, others stay longer though that's dwindled since they cut comp time and over time and bonuses and raises and education benefits). If I got in at 9/10 I'd be way more functional but no instead I get to drag my ass in everyday for a standing 8am meeting with the boss/team just to rehash the same crap 80% of the time.

Sorry to hear that. I have a job that understands this. I beat myself up my first year trying to be in at 7:30. I'd pull a Office Space and zone out until at least 9:30. Check e-mails, try and keep myself awake.

Now I roll out of bed between 8:30 and 9:30. Roll in between 8:45 and 10. Get my work done and leave. Productivity is up. I haven't fallen asleep in a meeting since 2007.

All of my work is 'needs to be done'. I've had 14 hour days before big deadlines. At the same time I can tell my boss I want some days off 'under the table' without a problem.

I even took a long trip around Europe last year. I burned all 2 weeks of vacation and got approval from my boss's boss to take off an entire extra week just because they both said I had an extra week in already.
 
2010-03-23 09:27:41 PM
If they can't hack a 6am class as teenagers, they'll end up in the military - with all the other underachieving dumbasses.

(reveille at 0600 dumbasses)
 
2010-03-23 09:27:44 PM
mongbiohazard: Forty-Two: The later schedule makes sense, though one drawback would be that it gives students less of an opportunity to work. Since my high school let out at 2:30, I had a few friends with jobs that started at 3. I suppose some students might then work before school (you can get a 4-hour shift in at a coffee shop), but that would go against the "letting teens sleep in" goal.


We keep raising the retirement age over the years as our life expectancy rises... do we REALLY need to make our high school kids work too? Don't rush them into it. There's plenty of decades for them to work after they graduate.


High school is a joke. You should either be working (OJT) or doing dual-enrollment/college credit during that time. Otherwise it is a waste.

/school 7-10; worked 40-60 hrs/week
//didn't have to work at all during uni
 
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