SubBass49: EviLincoln: Some of us aren't morning people.

Quick! Alert the authorities! The world must be remade to cater to you!

Yeah, it's great when the rules are changed to match how people actually behave.

jack21221: SubBass49: Quick! Alert the authorities! The world must be remade to cater to you!

Are you here to just gainsay opposing views, or are you here to actually look at the pros and cons of the issue?

If it's the latter, check out the article I linked to a few posts up. If it's the former, happy trolling.

And thank you for having my back.

/tips hat to the kindly internet stranger

As a sleep deprived student (albeit university) I approve of changes in this direction.

/Work 2 jobs with a full-time course load
//Final semester in Chemical Engineering so senior design projects in there too
///Hurry up, Graduation!

Fizics: I have been a Physics teacher for almost 15 years now and this idea is just nonsense. Young people need to learn that the world does not wait for their sleepy eyes to open fully before beginning it's day.

With the rest of the world increasing competitiveness, we need to here in the United States as well or face falling even further behind due to poor student performance.

70% of the self-made millionaires in this country never graduated college, and a good number never attended college. American productivity is tops in the world, and labor and transportation costs have equalized pay. This notion that we can't compete is BS. The problem is that the current system is tied to graduating kids to the Old Economy.

Today's success stories have flex-time, often don't go into an office like the drones, learn to leverage (and I don't mean "borrow against") the skills and interests of others to create win-win situations....

I'm 34. My father worked as a chemist for a multinational food processor and rose very high there, working his 5 or 6 days a week. I work independently out of my home/in-laws/car (that's three different places for you cynics out there) and have the flexibility to take in a show when I feel like it, schedule client appointments around doctors appointments, and actually enjoy life as I live it instead of "working for the weekend." I am backed by an organization that similarly operates quite a bit on flextime via conference calls and webinars and our website's back end.

And it works.

That is the Brave New World out there, particularly for the kids graduating into this wreckage of an economy. Training them for yesterday's jobs simply doesn't help anything. The organization I work with has been around since 1972, so it's not a particularly new company. It is even more successful using these methods than it was in years past. In a down economy. With 10% unemployment.

It's not that I work less. I work different hours is all. I don't put in full-time work, I don't get paid. If I take off a morning to recover from a night out, I work that evening. If I have a personal errand that takes two hours, I put it back in on the weekend or when I have insomnia. But I don't have stress, and I don't have fatigue, and I don't suffer from depression anymore like I used to.

Trying to pretend that "the way we've done it for the past hundred years" is optimal or desirable in the current day when it flies in the face of both anecdotal and documented evidence is not healthy. Particularly from someone who teaches science.

Should it be field-tested elsewhere to see if it can be duplicated? Absolutely. Could this be just another fleeting educational fad? Certainly, but the system now doesn't prepare kids to do anything but take standardized tests, and it does that poorly. Math and reading is pretty much all they learn around here, and more focus hasn't helped on their scores. Something is wrong. We're not aiming at the right targets and the kids are being called failures because of it.

The true success of an educational system isn't how many graduate or pass tests, it is how many learn to be successful outside of school. There's books that help with that, but I don't know of any school that includes them in their curriculae outside of some business schools.

Wait do you guys make your 4 year old children stay up until 11 because that's the normal time to stay up? And they shouldn't get used to something unrealistic?

Also, I'm sick of people telling me how great they do on 2-4 hours of sleep a night and what a waste 8 hours is. Frankly, without an average of 8 hours I'm passing out at my desk, can't watch tv without falling asleep, etc. Different people have different physiological needs. I know that some people need very little sleep but I have a hard time believing that 3 hours a night leaves you feeling/thinking your best.

I'll add in with I'm not a morning person either. I hate getting up in the morning. I'm fogged and don't think clearly until I get some caffeine into me, and then I only really get going in the afternoon.

No, the world doesn't cater to me, you're correct in that, nor would I ask it to. Many things don't function in the 9-5 standard operating hours though (think store hours for one) However, I guess I lucked out with my schedule. See, I do MT work. My account is based in Colorado (I live in Maine). For some reason, the majority of their dictations don't get done and put into the system for us MTs to do until around 3 p.m. their time, which means 5 p.m. my time. It's pointless for my company to schedule a lot of people to work earlier in the day because they'll just run out of work, so they schedule them later. Lucky for me, it means I don't have to get up with an alarm clock (which always makes me cranky). It means I have a few hours of play/free time before my job starts for appointments and such, and then I get to stay up late. Gee, after I put my son to bed I find I'm even more productive because hey, it's actually farking quiet in the house. Oh, right. I work from home. Does that make me extra lazy? Maybe, but it saves on day care for now, not to mention transportation expenses, and wardrobe costs, plus all those other things that go along with leaving the house for work.

I should add that I'm paid on production, not an hourly wage, so working in my most productive hours actually gains income for our house, and looks better for the company because the turn-around-times are lower.

But since I start so late anyway, I get to enjoy a good amount of sunshine *before* I clock in, instead of hoping there will be sunshine when I'm done with work. This also means I'll be available to pick up my sons from school if needed, or from after-school activities, etc.

Not everyone is a morning person. Not everything functions, nor should it function, in the 9-5 universe.

Fark Me To Tears: ZzeusS: Kick those farkers out of bed at 7am.

When I was in high school, we had to be at the bus stop NLT 7:15AM. Classes started at 7:50AM.

The county I lived in has considered the late start time idea several times in the decades since then, but they always say no, saying that it would interfere with elementary school bus schedules. In truth, it was more about high school sports coaches who didn't want their after-school practice start-times pushed back later, bus drivers who didn't want their day pushed back later without an increase in pay, and parents who wanted their teens home before their elementary school kids so they wouldn't have to pay for afternoon childcare.

To hell with optimizing the teenagers' ability do better in school -- it's all about everyone except them.

Right. First thing we should do is kick athletics to associations and out of schools. Then we make the American Dream a reality-- put in an honest day's work five days a week, you can raise a family. Isn't that what we're told growing up? That takes the pressure off of both parents to work constantly, reduces stress and gives them more opportunities to mentor. Then the school bus drivers won't be so apt to complain, being less stressed out themselves.

Too bad it's just a fantasy, hard work doesn't guarantee that kind of success even though it's what we're taught growing up.