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(ABC)   We have "official" threads for sporting events and TV shows all the time, so here's your Official U.S. House Health Care Reform Voting thread for Sunday   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 8573
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6337 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Mar 2010 at 1:00 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-03-21 10:59:11 AM
kitryne: Tatsuma: So is it going to pass or not? Most likely yes?

As far as I can tell, probably yes, but scary close.


And is there a public option in the bill?
 
2010-03-21 10:59:29 AM
kitryne: Tatsuma: So is it going to pass or not? Most likely yes?

As far as I can tell, probably yes, but scary close.


The big coup was peeling off Bart Stupak's supporters.
 
2010-03-21 10:59:36 AM
Tatsuma: So is it going to pass or not? Most likely yes?

obviously anything can happen, and the democrats wouldn't want to count the proverbial chickens before they're hatched, but odds are, it looks like it will pass.
 
2010-03-21 11:00:06 AM
UNC_Samurai: kitryne: Tatsuma: So is it going to pass or not? Most likely yes?

As far as I can tell, probably yes, but scary close.

And is there a public option in the bill?


Sadly, no. It's health insurance reform, not really health care reform.
 
2010-03-21 11:00:18 AM
Tatsuma: So is it going to pass or not? Most likely yes?

Yes. And then the chaos will cease, people will forget about the scary boogeyman death panels, and appreciate the fact that their insurance companies will no longer be able to rape their dead corpses. And Democrats will have tons of footage to air of Republicans cawk-gobbling the insurance companies in campaign commercials.
 
2010-03-21 11:01:45 AM
Hender: Sadly, no. It's health insurance reform, not really health care reform.

This. A million times this.
 
2010-03-21 11:02:33 AM
Hender: UNC_Samurai: kitryne: Tatsuma: So is it going to pass or not? Most likely yes?

As far as I can tell, probably yes, but scary close.

And is there a public option in the bill?

Sadly, no. It's health insurance reform, not really health care reform.


Supposedly it'll be in the reconciliation fix.
 
2010-03-21 11:03:33 AM
Serious question, couldn't this lead to a severe blow to Obama's chances for re-election?

Say that the bill barely passes, turns out that much like the stimulus bill, it doesn't (at least apparently) fix much and people get angry about it to the point where the Democrats receive a battering about it. Now, Obama would basically turn into a lame duck, as there is no way the 'Party of No' would ever pass a single bill approved by Obama for the remainder of his term, thus making him look like he did nothing, disillusioned Democratic voters don't turn out in huge numbers for the 2012 election, Independents go back to the Republicans and the GOP, still angry over the bill, manages to whip up a frenzy with its base and a candidate mainstream enough to get elected...

Couldn't this scenario basically unfold, with the ironic twist at the end where Romney repels the bill in 2012?

I'm not being a concern troll, I really could see this happening if the bill isn't a resounding success.

/also, why is there an ad showing pedophile dressed in green bothering a little girl in my right sidebar?
 
2010-03-21 11:04:26 AM
Tatsuma: much like the stimulus bill, it doesn't (at least apparently) fix much

Know how I know you're full of it?
 
2010-03-21 11:05:53 AM
Hender: Sadly, no. It's health insurance reform, not really health care reform.

I couldn't muster the energy to read on this debate for the last three weeks or so... This is what it has come to?

For the record, I am in favor of Universal Healthcare, I just have some doubts that the same people who penned the stimulus can also pen a bill that would fix Healthcare.
 
2010-03-21 11:07:05 AM
Tatsuma: Couldn't this scenario basically unfold, with the ironic twist at the end where Romney repels the bill in 2012?

The GOP isn't going to repeal this. They've been saying they'd repeal Social Security, Medicare, unemployment benefits, child labor laws, Roe v. Wade, all that for years. They've never even tried to kill them.
 
2010-03-21 11:07:29 AM
Tatsuma: Serious question, couldn't this lead to a severe blow to Obama's chances for re-election?

Of course it could, and especially since a lot of the things don't kick in until 2014. But insurance companies will get slapped down from the get-go and prohibited from denying coverage because they don't feel like it anymore, so there will be some real beneifts right away.
 
2010-03-21 11:10:51 AM
GAT_00: Tatsuma: Couldn't this scenario basically unfold, with the ironic twist at the end where Romney repels the bill in 2012?

The GOP isn't going to repeal this. They've been saying they'd repeal Social Security, Medicare, unemployment benefits, child labor laws, Roe v. Wade, all that for years. They've never even tried to kill them.


It would be political suicide to repeal things like the pre-ex ban and closing the donut hole. Those are wildly popular ideas, and they absolutely suck for those folks that have fallen into those areas of coverage.
 
2010-03-21 11:11:38 AM
Intrade has current odds of passage at 86%, maybe the teabaggers should put their money where there mouths are.
 
2010-03-21 11:11:42 AM
sigdiamond2000: You can tell how bad this would be for the Dems by how hard Karl Rove is fighting against its passage...

Karl Rove: "You pass this bill and you've just signed your own death warrants! I won't stand idly by and watch the Democrat Party ruin its chances in 2012!"


it is the oddest argument. I am trying to decipher it, I think it actually means they (repubs) are scared it will pass and they will be the ones who get farked in November. because if they really wanted the dems to lose they would want this to pass. right? or maybe they are just full of their usual shiat and need a good enema. I will take the latter.
 
2010-03-21 11:11:48 AM
Also, goddamn I wish I had had insurance coverage through the age of 26. My first job was an an independent contractor, so I went without insurance for almost 4 years until I got a job that actually offered it. Good thing I never had any major health issues.
 
2010-03-21 11:12:01 AM
Hender: Of course it could, and especially since a lot of the things don't kick in until 2014. But insurance companies will get slapped down from the get-go and prohibited from denying coverage because they don't feel like it anymore, so there will be some real beneifts right away.

I have to say it's a ballsy move. Hopefully for all of us, this bill will actually be a success, will make it easier for all Americans to get the healthcare everyone deserves as a basic human right, it won't end up choking the economy to death and free unicorn deliveries will then proceed on schedule.
 
2010-03-21 11:12:47 AM
Tatsuma: Serious question, couldn't this lead to a severe blow to Obama's chances for re-election?

It could. Is it likely to? No.

Republicans have painted themselves into a corner by portraying it as the worst thing to ever happen to America. Which means that if the bill is simply tolerable, or even likeable to some small degree, then the Republicans have lost the expectations battle. They will look foolish. Especially so when they don't have a good idea about how to fix healthcare past lowering taxes and banning abortion.

There's also the alternative: by not passing HCR, the idea that the Democrats are weak is cemented. Democrats won't show up at the polls if they have no faith their political will is being valued. Obama would be in worse shape if it didn't pass.
 
2010-03-21 11:13:55 AM
make me some tea: closing the donut hole

They may want to try that. After all, they intentionally put it there in the first place so they could biatch about Medicare later. Seriously.
 
2010-03-21 11:14:02 AM
cameroncrazy1984: Hender: UNC_Samurai: kitryne: Tatsuma: So is it going to pass or not? Most likely yes?

As far as I can tell, probably yes, but scary close.

And is there a public option in the bill?

Sadly, no. It's health insurance reform, not really health care reform.

Supposedly it'll be in the reconciliation fix.


no it's not.
 
2010-03-21 11:14:09 AM
make me some tea: It would be political suicide to repeal things like the pre-ex ban and closing the donut hole. Those are wildly popular ideas, and they absolutely suck for those folks that have fallen into those areas of coverage.

And don't forget Medicare and Social Security were considered a Russian Communist invasion at the time. Dems (and a few Reps) had the courage to enact it anyway, and now people can't live without it. Let's see the "true conservatives" campaign on repealing Medicare. Good luck with that.
 
2010-03-21 11:15:03 AM
Ok, Fox News just had a senator on saying that they were going to bring up Point or Orders to try to change the bill and force the house to vote on it again.
 
2010-03-21 11:15:05 AM
hillbillypharmacist: There's also the alternative: by not passing HCR, the idea that the Democrats are weak is cemented. Democrats won't show up at the polls if they have no faith their political will is being valued. Obama would be in worse shape if it didn't pass.

Good point, actually.
 
2010-03-21 11:15:20 AM
hillbillypharmacist: There's also the alternative: by not passing HCR, the idea that the Democrats are weak is cemented. Democrats won't show up at the polls if they have no faith their political will is being valued. Obama would be in worse shape if it didn't pass.

That's why they called it his "Waterloo." They just had too much faith in their propaganda machine and ended up turning him into Wellington.
 
2010-03-21 11:15:25 AM
I'll give you passage.
 
2010-03-21 11:15:43 AM
hillbillypharmacist: Obama would be in worse shape if it didn't pass.

This is absolutely true. The GOP is going to hit him for passing it, but passing actual reform can be sold to America. Not passing anything is going to make the entire Democratic base give up. So they may lose if they pass it, but they will absolutely lose if they don't.
 
2010-03-21 11:16:30 AM
Tatsuma: Couldn't this scenario basically unfold, with the ironic twist at the end where Romney repels the bill in 2012?

The future is unknown and unknowable. The infinite nature of possibility allows for the vast myriad of potential outcomes.

Except "President Romney". That shiat ain't happenin'.
 
2010-03-21 11:17:03 AM
lerry: Ok, Fox News just had a senator on saying that they were going to bring up Point or Orders to try to change the bill and force the house to vote on it again.

Can't they just prevent that by, you know, not recognizing any Republican Senators? They can't fark things up if they aren't given the floor, right?
 
2010-03-21 11:18:56 AM
imapirate: make me some tea: It would be political suicide to repeal things like the pre-ex ban and closing the donut hole. Those are wildly popular ideas, and they absolutely suck for those folks that have fallen into those areas of coverage.

And don't forget Medicare and Social Security were considered a Russian Communist invasion at the time. Dems (and a few Reps) had the courage to enact it anyway, and now people can't live without it. Let's see the "true conservatives" campaign on repealing Medicare. Good luck with that.


www.lat34.com
 
2010-03-21 11:20:45 AM
GAT_00: lerry: Ok, Fox News just had a senator on saying that they were going to bring up Point or Orders to try to change the bill and force the house to vote on it again.

Can't they just prevent that by, you know, not recognizing any Republican Senators? They can't fark things up if they aren't given the floor, right?


I'm wondering why Senators would be on the House floor anyway.
 
2010-03-21 11:21:02 AM
FoxNews.com: "John Boehner says health bill is 'Armageddon.'" Really? Imposing regulations on insurance companies will cause the demise of America?

/seriously, WTF?
//what's the big deal?
 
2010-03-21 11:21:47 AM
cameroncrazy1984: I'm wondering why Senators would be on the House floor anyway.

I hope you're being sarcastic.
 
2010-03-21 11:22:30 AM
lerry: cameroncrazy1984: I'm wondering why Senators would be on the House floor anyway.

I hope you're being sarcastic.


I thought that was obvious.
 
2010-03-21 11:28:03 AM
Has someone on Fox actually posited out loud that Obama might be a Marxist sleeper cell agent a la Manchurian Candidate, who is using the situation by first passing the Stimulus Bill and now the Healthcare bill in order to create a complete collapse of the American Economy in order to hasten an inevitable class war that would result in the establishment of a proletariat Communist dictatorship as predicted by Marx in Das Capital?
 
2010-03-21 11:29:19 AM
imapirate: FoxNews.com: "John Boehner says health bill is 'Armageddon.'"

Doesn't rapture occur before Armageddon?

Because if all the Christians God likes suddenly disappear, that might reduce health care costs for those left.

Unless it already happened and we didn't notice the five people who vanished.
 
2010-03-21 11:34:39 AM
Tatsuma: Has someone on Fox actually posited out loud that Obama might be a Marxist sleeper cell agent a la Manchurian Candidate, who is using the situation by first passing the Stimulus Bill and now the Healthcare bill in order to create a complete collapse of the American Economy in order to hasten an inevitable class war that would result in the establishment of a proletariat Communist dictatorship as predicted by Marx in Das Capital?

That would be Glenn Beck
 
2010-03-21 11:35:46 AM
Just want to get in here before the liters flood in...
 
2010-03-21 11:35:49 AM
I wonder how many of these teabagging retards will be availing themselves to the benefits of this bill. I'm guessing lots.
 
2010-03-21 11:37:38 AM
cameroncrazy1984: Tatsuma: Has someone on Fox actually posited out loud that Obama might be a Marxist sleeper cell agent a la Manchurian Candidate, who is using the situation by first passing the Stimulus Bill and now the Healthcare bill in order to create a complete collapse of the American Economy in order to hasten an inevitable class war that would result in the establishment of a proletariat Communist dictatorship as predicted by Marx in Das Capital?

That would be Glenn Beck


Yeah, they say stuff like that pretty often. Once a week, at least.
 
2010-03-21 11:42:01 AM
cameroncrazy1984: That would be Glenn Beck

He went that far? That's why I said out loud, not hinting at it.
 
2010-03-21 11:43:17 AM
Tatsuma: cameroncrazy1984: That would be Glenn Beck

He went that far? That's why I said out loud, not hinting at it.


Oh yeah. He's flat out said that health care reform would "pull the country toward the fascists and the communists." Jon Stewart did a great satire on it this past week.
 
2010-03-21 11:43:20 AM
If this does pass. I nominate Trig Palin's maternal grandmother be the first one up on the docket for the "death panel".
 
2010-03-21 11:43:36 AM
lerry: Ok, Fox News just had a senator on saying that they were going to bring up Point or Orders to try to change the bill and force the house to vote on it again.

They're going to try. Democrats have worked with the parliamentarian extensively to make sure no legitimate points of order can be changed. The reconciliation bill looks pretty waterproof to me.

But here's the key: even if they were to successfully do that, the Senate bill would already be law. They'd just be delaying popular fixes to an already passed and signed bill. It's far, far easier to round up the votes for that than it is to round them up the first time. All Republicans are doing making that threat is trying to scare wavering House members into not passing the first bill. But it's not going to work.
 
2010-03-21 11:44:25 AM
Tatsuma: Has someone on Fox actually posited out loud that Obama might be a Marxist sleeper cell agent a la Manchurian Candidate, who is using the situation by first passing the Stimulus Bill and now the Healthcare bill in order to create a complete collapse of the American Economy in order to hasten an inevitable class war that would result in the establishment of a proletariat Communist dictatorship as predicted by Marx in Das Capital?

You're thinking too small.

Christianity (and for that matter, any religion that teaches Social Justice or Economic Justice) is in on it as well.

And the mainstream MSM media.

And hedgehogs. I forget why, but yeah.
 
2010-03-21 11:45:42 AM
imapirate: Tatsuma: So is it going to pass or not? Most likely yes?

Yes. And then the chaos will cease, people will forget about the scary boogeyman death panels, and appreciate the fact that their insurance companies will no longer be able to rape their dead corpses. And Democrats will have tons of footage to air of Republicans cawk-gobbling the insurance companies in campaign commercials.


I predict violence, which will be Glenn Beck's fault, but somehow the Liberal Bashing Industry will manage to blame on Clinton

.
 
2010-03-21 11:46:22 AM
Awea: If this does pass. I nominate Trig Palin's maternal grandmother be the first one up on the docket for the "death panel".

I what you did there, you betcha.
 
2010-03-21 11:47:55 AM
The missing "see" was for Russia, which I cannot from my house.
 
2010-03-21 11:49:18 AM
imapirate: FoxNews.com: "John Boehner says health bill is 'Armageddon.'" Really? Imposing regulations on insurance companies will cause the demise of America?

/seriously, WTF?
//what's the big deal?


Armageddon, acording to wiki: is the site of an epic battle associated with the end time prophecies of the Abrahamic religions.

So passing the bill is a place?

.
 
2010-03-21 11:49:21 AM
GAT_00: Yeah, they say stuff like that pretty often. Once a week, at least.

I couldn't find the graphic, but the other day, the leading story on Fox "News" was a picture of the Constitution and the American flag with the slug "DOES THIS EVEN MATTER ANYMORE?"

/"fair and balanced"
 
2010-03-21 11:52:08 AM
DistendedPendulusFrenulum: So passing the bill is a place?

He meant the movie.
 
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