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(Herald Tribune) Florida The state that brought you to your knees as the leader in rigged homeowner loans and appraisals is riding high on the next wave of global Ponzi goodness: homeowners and hurricane insurance   (heraldtribune.com) divider line 39
More: Florida  
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6129 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Mar 2010 at 2:55 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



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2010-03-14 10:09:59 AM
In the aftermath, after Florida has sifted through its own rubble and has had to walk in its own defecation for a couple of years, I will inevitably run into an out-of-work and homeless insurance executive, who will tell me, "We never thought it would be possible to end like this." At that point in time, I will rip out his/her carotid with my own teeth and, once he/she has stopped writhing and flailing, I will savor the taste of his/her raw intestines. All of this while I will refuse to become bitter.

(state politicians) Nancy Detert and Doug Holder: ARE YOU READING THIS? YOU SET US UP FOR THIS? ARE YOU INSANE?
 
2010-03-14 10:52:02 AM
My current insurance company has begun to quietly exit Florida insurance because ~1% of policyholders in two counties filed sinkhole claims, which strained it's finances.

I hate to think how many people in this state wouldn't get any funds after any hurricane because all these fly-by-night insurance companies that write policies can't afford to pay all those polices out, even with reinsurance.

Guess we'll be getting our own bailout.
 
2010-03-14 11:16:11 AM
Is it just me or does the dude in the picture look homicidal?
 
2010-03-14 11:37:15 AM
looks like the insurance lobby has performed it's work very well.
 
2010-03-14 03:03:09 PM
thumbnails.hulu.com
 
2010-03-14 03:03:53 PM
I'm not insured against either one.
 
2010-03-14 03:04:27 PM
Florida sucks except for Disney World and anything south of Fort Pierce and east the Florida Turnpike.

Key West is an interesting city.
 
2010-03-14 03:06:56 PM
"Key West is an interesting city."

St. Petersburg was nice.....in the Eighties.
 
2010-03-14 03:09:34 PM
The other side of the coin?

Florida passed some laws that made it harder for more-reputable insurance companies to make profits, so they left the state. The other companies that stayed are the less-honest ones (yes, less honest than normal insurance companies, which should tell you something). The leftover companies are hiding profits from state regulators. What a shock.
 
2010-03-14 03:09:41 PM
Paige St. John (author of the article) sounds like the screen name of a stripper turned porn star, but who is looking to keep it classy.

/Penthouse?
 
2010-03-14 03:14:37 PM
Funk Brothers:Florida sucks except for Disney World and anything south of Fort Pierce and east the Florida Turnpike.

Fixed.
 
2010-03-14 03:15:07 PM
Kurmudgeon: "Key West is an interesting city."

St. Petersburg was nice.....in the Eighties.


Yeah didn't you have riots in the 1990s?
 
2010-03-14 03:18:09 PM
Insurers have said that free-market, private systems cannot insure in Florida without re-insurance protection from the Government against catastrophic losses.

So having admitted that private insurers need public insurance to function-- what is the POSSIBLE reason for having a private insurance industry offering policies in Florida (aside from paying profits into the pockets of investors)?

Governments get money from taxation which is tied to economic activity (which is why governments MAKE money providing flood insurance to multi-million dollar hotels built on sand bars) a socialized state-run insurance company in Florida could make vast wealth for the state's taxpayers but people can't admit that because it would be "socialized" and "government-run".

THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO GENERAL RULES!!!!!
 
2010-03-14 03:18:45 PM
While I understand property insurance is not health insurance and while I'm not an expert on the insurance industry or, for that matter, a homeowner, the Florida property insurance business is what makes me skeptical of the merits of a national health insurance mandate.

Property insurance is mandated in Florida if you own a home. In the 2004/2005 hurricane seasons, storms sweep through the state and cause massive losses. So what happens? State subsidiaries of national insurers go into receivership and/or pull out of the Florida homeowners market, leaving high and dry policyholders who dutifully paid their premiums for years without filing a single claim.

I somehow doubt health insurers would behave any differently should they find that insuring every American is more expensive than they'd like it to be.
 
2010-03-14 03:21:00 PM
i40.tinypic.com
 
2010-03-14 03:22:17 PM
cirby:
Florida passed some laws that made it harder for more-reputable insurance companies to make profits, so they left the state.

No. Reputable Insurance companies left the state because they realized that if a single hurricane had gone 50 miles south, the exposure to claims would have been 3 times national industry reserves.
 
2010-03-14 03:29:18 PM
Let the bears pay the bear tax!
 
2010-03-14 03:47:28 PM
Quick, someone from the fark liberal perspective, suggest we fine people living in hurricane prone areas who fail to get insurance so we can pay for their inevitable inability to pay for themselves.
 
2010-03-14 04:02:18 PM
There is no such thing as hurricane insurance.
 
2010-03-14 04:11:48 PM
stirfrybry: Quick, someone from the fark liberal perspective, suggest we fine people living in hurricane prone areas who fail to get insurance so we can pay for their inevitable inability to pay for themselves.

Dont we all pay national insurance to fund FEMA, supposedly for that reason ?

// yeah Im aware its broken
/ Its not as bad as the trillions we are spending for "democracy" in random foreign nations
 
2010-03-14 04:27:31 PM
Ha! Ha! I don't think they could have found a more "special needs" picture of him.
 
2010-03-14 04:39:04 PM
cirby: The other side of the coin?

Florida passed some laws that made it harder for more-reputable insurance companies to make profits, so they left the state. The other companies that stayed are the less-honest ones (yes, less honest than normal insurance companies, which should tell you something). The leftover companies are hiding profits from state regulators. What a shock.


Yet another reason we should dissolve states and have only a single, unified set of federal standards, regulations, and tax codes. This would prevent wealthy people from evading taxes and prevent companies from evading regulations by moving to certain states.
 
2010-03-14 04:39:50 PM
... Not to mention having the side effect bonus of dissolving the Senate, an undemocratic and immoral institution that prevents elections from meaning anything in this country.
 
2010-03-14 04:47:52 PM
studebaker hoch: I'm not insured against either one.

Aren't you required to carry some sort of hurricane insurance - either flood or windstorm in addition to homeowner's insurance?
 
2010-03-14 04:52:15 PM
Galileo's Daughter: Aren't you required

If you have a mortgage you are often required to
(if you have a mortgage you should be used to be reamed)
 
2010-03-14 05:03:12 PM
So these insurance companies are buying reinsurance from sister companies. Did Florida's regulators learn nothing from AIG? That is EXACTLY what they did to screw themselves.

For those who don't know, reinsurance is supposed to be spread throughout a number of outside companies. It is basically an insurance policy against default of the company and spreads the risk of failure around. All expensive policies are split up this way, for example in P&C a skyscraper's policy would similarly be split up so if that tornado or hurricane comes through, it won't be one company paying $1,000,000,000 (or however much) but ten companies each paying $100,000,000.

Instead, these companies are retaining all of that risk themselves. I can't believe that Florida allows this, particularly for carriers that are entirely within hurricane-prone areas. This goes against everything I know to be best practices in the insurance business.

Florida, the ONLY way to keep the insurance industry from self-destructing is through regulation, regulation, regulation. Tighten things up real quick or just have the state revoke all licenses and assume direct control. That would be a better answer than half-assed regulations. Right now they are handing their local companies a license for malfeasance. Even legit companies have trouble keeping out of trouble in a normal market, much less the virtual DIY environment in America's wang.
 
2010-03-14 05:33:48 PM
Tommy Moo: Yet another reason we should dissolve states and have only a single, unified set of federal standards, regulations, and tax codes. This would prevent wealthy people from evading taxes and prevent companies from evading regulations by moving to certain states.

i729.photobucket.com

I don't think you've thought your cunning plan all the way through.
 
2010-03-14 05:46:14 PM
for a few grand you can hire an assassin and have that problem fixed
or if your a do it yourself'er....
 
2010-03-14 05:58:38 PM
BolloxReader: So these insurance companies are buying reinsurance from sister companies. Did Florida's regulators learn nothing from AIG? That is EXACTLY what they did to screw themselves.

For those who don't know, reinsurance is supposed to be spread throughout a number of outside companies. It is basically an insurance policy against default of the company and spreads the risk of failure around. All expensive policies are split up this way, for example in P&C a skyscraper's policy would similarly be split up so if that tornado or hurricane comes through, it won't be one company paying $1,000,000,000 (or however much) but ten companies each paying $100,000,000.

Instead, these companies are retaining all of that risk themselves. I can't believe that Florida allows this, particularly for carriers that are entirely within hurricane-prone areas. This goes against everything I know to be best practices in the insurance business.

Florida, the ONLY way to keep the insurance industry from self-destructing is through regulation, regulation, regulation. Tighten things up real quick or just have the state revoke all licenses and assume direct control. That would be a better answer than half-assed regulations. Right now they are handing their local companies a license for malfeasance. Even legit companies have trouble keeping out of trouble in a normal market, much less the virtual DIY environment in America's wang.



Did anyone in here actually RTFA?

"Investors and executives in 2008 moved $1.9 billion in policyholder money out of heavily regulated insurers, where profits are capped and dividends are restricted, to separate companies that are owned by the same people, housed at the same address and sometimes use the same employees.

As soon as the money is moved, it is beyond the reach of homeowners who might need it to rebuild after a disaster.

It is also free to be paid to investors and owners as profit without interference from regulators."



That means the companies, whether they actually have the available funds to support the massive payouts in a disaster, are chiseling the money off into their pockets and absconding with the funds. They're just pocketing the premiums, and letting the taxpayer handle the bills.

THEY ARE STEALING IT!

How the hell can this be legal?
 
2010-03-14 06:15:27 PM
cirby: The other side of the coin?

Florida passed some laws that made it harder for more-reputable insurance companies to make profits, so they left the state. The other companies that stayed are the less-honest ones (yes, less honest than normal insurance companies, which should tell you something). The leftover companies are hiding profits from state regulators. What a shock.


This. If you run out the honest companies, don't be surprised at the results. Florida got this from trying to get the rest of the country to subsidize its rates.
 
2010-03-14 07:15:11 PM
stirfrybry: Quick, someone from the fark liberal perspective, suggest we fine people living in hurricane prone areas who fail to get insurance so we can pay for their inevitable inability to pay for themselves.

BolloxReader: So these insurance companies are buying reinsurance from sister companies. Did Florida's regulators learn nothing from AIG? That is EXACTLY what they did to screw themselves.

For those who don't know, reinsurance is supposed to be spread throughout a number of outside companies. It is basically an insurance policy against default of the company and spreads the risk of failure around. All expensive policies are split up this way, for example in P&C a skyscraper's policy would similarly be split up so if that tornado or hurricane comes through, it won't be one company paying $1,000,000,000 (or however much) but ten companies each paying $100,000,000.

Instead, these companies are retaining all of that risk themselves. I can't believe that Florida allows this, particularly for carriers that are entirely within hurricane-prone areas. This goes against everything I know to be best practices in the insurance business.

Florida, the ONLY way to keep the insurance industry from self-destructing is through regulation, regulation, regulation. Tighten things up real quick or just have the state revoke all licenses and assume direct control. That would be a better answer than half-assed regulations. Right now they are handing their local companies a license for malfeasance. Even legit companies have trouble keeping out of trouble in a normal market, much less the virtual DIY environment in America's wang.


They learned a lot from AIG like how to run the same business model:
Slartibartfaster: stirfrybry: Quick, someone from the fark liberal perspective, suggest we fine people living in hurricane prone areas who fail to get insurance so we can pay for their inevitable inability to pay for themselves.

Dont we all pay national insurance to fund FEMA, supposedly for that reason ?

// yeah Im aware its broken
/ Its not as bad as the trillions we are spending for "democracy" in random foreign nations


">

i.imgur.com

It's called Citizens: have the state insure the most disaster prone areas (anything near water) that private companies won't. Citizens bankrupts the state and the federal government bails it out.

I'm assuming that will be covered in "COMING SOON: Florida regulators cut corners and look the other way even as they acknowledge the danger," that is hinted at the end. Just like AIG, people will question how such a dumb idea like Citizens was allowed to operate.

/Florida sucks
 
2010-03-14 07:32:57 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

Such a schemer
 
2010-03-14 08:03:06 PM
Tommy Moo:
Yet another reason we should dissolve states and have only a single, unified set of federal standards, regulations, and tax codes. This would prevent wealthy people from evading taxes and prevent companies from evading regulations by moving to certain states.

9/10, smooth.
 
2010-03-14 08:18:09 PM
Deathfrogg:

That means the companies, whether they actually have the available funds to support the massive payouts in a disaster, are chiseling the money off into their pockets and absconding with the funds. They're just pocketing the premiums, and letting the taxpayer handle the bills....

How the hell can this be legal?

After the feces hits the fan they declare backruptcy and spend some time powerboating in the Barbados, safely far from any telephones or addresses that are in their name. After things calm down they come back to the mainland and start a similar business with a different name. White collar crime is the way to go.
 
2010-03-14 11:32:47 PM
Mr Moo - the point is to not have a government that changes with every shifting wind.

The six year terms and 2 per state representation are meant to slow things down.

Think of idiocy like our recent swine flu panic. Our country is huge and should not keep changing policies willy-nilly. I'm sure you would like to govern by CNN headlines, but this is a nation, not American Idol.
 
2010-03-14 11:33:14 PM
2theruns:
Citizens bankrupts the state...

Yes, you are brilliant. Non-profit property insurance "bankrupts the state" because high-value, high-risk properties are all destroyed every year and therefore pay no property taxes.

Governments make money on TAXES -- if you only measure INSURANCE PREMIUMS you aren't measuring cost/return of state-provided insurance!
 
2010-03-15 10:44:40 AM
Crosshair: I don't think you've thought your cunning plan all the way through.

kenmce: 9/10, smooth.

I love it when people have some feeling or another that makes them want to disagree with me, but for the life of them can't articulate a single reason why.

Let me put it this way: if we never had states in the first place, you certainly wouldn't be clamoring for them to exist now. States are a relic of when we didn't have the infrastructure to govern a nation from the capital. They serve no purpose in the day of the internet.
 
2010-03-15 12:58:13 PM
OhioKnight: 2theruns:
Citizens bankrupts the state...

Yes, you are brilliant. Non-profit property insurance "bankrupts the state" because high-value, high-risk properties are all destroyed every year and therefore pay no property taxes.

Governments make money on TAXES -- if you only measure INSURANCE PREMIUMS you aren't measuring cost/return of state-provided insurance!


Yes, because hurricanes only hit every 10 years, allowing the state to make up the difference between the risk of catastrophic damage with the .5% millage on real property based on Lloyds estimates of a 2-4% annual risk of hurricane detruction. That's how Citizens can afford to insure property worth 100 times the entire state revenues, which by the way are mostly sales taxes and not property taxes. And it's not like Florida is using the tax money for anything else, like schools (OK Bad example).

\The problem isn't the state has an insurance pool, it's the incredibly underfunded nature of the pool.
 
2010-03-15 03:38:02 PM
badhatharry: There is no such thing as hurricane insurance.

How about hurricane insurance derivative swaps???
 
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