So when's he going to call for all out armed insurrection?

/If I could describe Beck in one word, that word would be "smarm"... or possibly "grifter"

Now here is a topic that I can sink my teeth into: The development of christian ideas and thoughts in the US vs rest of the world. Or, why are American protestants more conservative in their ideology than catholics world-wide?
Protestants, protestants, you do know where that word comes from?

Oh, and sprinkle a little bit Beck all over this and you have a perfect Friday afternoon thread.

"Congregational" "United Church of Christ".

That sounds....liberal. And possibly black. I think this guy is part of the Oligrchy.

what_now: I think this guy is part of the Oligrchy.

I thought it was "Oligarhy"

Wow, that was a fast greenlit.

Now all we need are some trolls and this is going to be a Drew moneymaker.

chemical_angel: Jesus was a socialist

perhaps, perhaps not. but he certainly wasn't the me me me mine mine mine capitalist these "Christians" make him out to be. moneychangers and all that.

"Jesus taught that we should give to the poor and support widows, but he never said that we should elect a government that would take money from our neighbor's hand and give it to the poor," Falwell says.

It's been awhile since I've picked up a Bible, but I don't see what is wrong with this statement...

I wonder what the Bible says about this kind of thing.

"Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others,
and you will be forgiven."
Luke 6:37 (NLT)

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the
rights of the poor and needy."
Proverbs 31: 8-9 (NIV)

So, Glenn Beck is talking about churches that teach from the Bible?

Where's the Christian outrage?

OH HAI

OlafTheBent: what_now: I think this guy is part of the Oligrchy.

I thought it was "Oligarhy"

oops. I wasn't sure how to misspell it.

Racht: Ryan2065:
It's been awhile since I've picked up a Bible, but I don't see what is wrong with this statement...

Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"

But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"

"Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

-Matthew 22:15-22

Nazarowned.

Racht: -Matthew 22:15-22

Are you agreeing with me or does that passage somehow show Jesus was for the government taking care of the poor?

what_now: OlafTheBent: what_now: I think this guy is part of the Oligrchy.

I thought it was "Oligarhy"

oops. I wasn't sure how to misspell it.

Now that's funny

Ryan2065: "Jesus taught that we should give to the poor and support widows, but he never said that we should elect a government that would take money from our neighbor's hand and give it to the poor," Falwell says.

It's been awhile since I've picked up a Bible, but I don't see what is wrong with this statement...

Jesus supported paying taxes for one thing. And he'd never lived under a democratic system so it would be hard for him to imagine electing any government to do anything, much less contribute to social welfare (which happened to be his primary cause).

chemical_angel: jackiepaper: perhaps, perhaps not.

No .. Really. The way the figure Jesus is portrayed in most of the bible is very liberal and very socialist.

Maybe they're referring to the Jewish God... the "don't screw with me or I'll send locusts and turn them into pillars of salt" vindictive God.

... as opposed to the "turn the other cheek" wussy Jesus God

Racht: I'm quite familiar with the Bible and I don't recall anything that justifies the Republican anti-tax small-government philosophy.

Jesus never really had anything good to say about democracy. I suppose that means he opposed it utterly, just like gay marriage.

hinten: , why are American protestants more conservative in their ideology than catholics world-wide?

I'm not sure you can say that. The LOUD protestants are your Evangelicals- usually of the Mormon or Baptists persuasion, but that's not all of them.

Up here in New England, we have UU's, Quakers, Anglicans, Congregationalists, Methodists, Episcopals, Presbyterians etc etc, and a lot of them are VERY liberal.

5052Racht: but you certainly can't say he opposed it.

It's the bible, an argument can always be made that he was opposed to it. Think of it this way, would Jesus be in favor of me being able to force you to give to charity? If not, why would he be in favor of a government forcing someone to give to charity?

The New Testament is essentially a commie playbook.

Matthew 6:24
No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

Matthew 25:41-45
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'

Acts 4:32-35
All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales. and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need.

OlafTheBent: So when's he going to call for all out armed insurrection?

/If I could describe Beck in one word, that word would be "smarm"... or possibly "grifter"

You misspelled "douchebag" and "traitor"

Con_Authority: Well since people are tossing around bible quotes and verses like a baseball, I'll join in too.

Don't forget

Ezekiel 23:20

That is all...

Holy sh*t, the bible predicted 9/11.

Yes, what would the Bible have to say on issues of justice and faith?

Isaiah 58:

1 "Shout it aloud, do not hold back.
Raise your voice like a trumpet.
Declare to my people their rebellion
and to the house of Jacob their sins.

2 For day after day they seek me out;
they seem eager to know my ways,
as if they were a nation that does what is right
and has not forsaken the commands of its God.
They ask me for just decisions
and seem eager for God to come near them.

3 'Why have we fasted,' they say,
'and you have not seen it?
Why have we humbled ourselves,
and you have not noticed?'
"Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please
and exploit all your workers.

4 Your fasting ends in quarreling and strife,
and in striking each other with wicked fists.
You cannot fast as you do today
and expect your voice to be heard on high.

5 Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for a man to humble himself?
Is it only for bowing one's head like a reed
and for lying on sackcloth and ashes?
Is that what you call a fast,
a day acceptable to the LORD ?

6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?

7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter-
when you see the naked, to clothe him,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness [a] will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.

9 Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.
"If you do away with the yoke of oppression,
with the pointing finger and malicious talk,

10 and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the oppressed,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like the noonday

11 The LORD will guide you always;
he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land
and will strengthen your frame.
You will be like a well-watered garden,
like a spring whose waters never fail.

12 Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins
and will raise up the age-old foundations;
you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls,
Restorer of Streets with Dwellings.

13 "If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the LORD's holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,

14 then you will find your joy in the LORD,
and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land
and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob."
The mouth of the LORD has spoken.



Isaiah 10

1 Woe to those who make unjust laws,
to those who issue oppressive decrees,

2 to deprive the poor of their rights
and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people,
making widows their prey
and robbing the fatherless.

3 What will you do on the day of reckoning,
when disaster comes from afar?
To whom will you run for help?
Where will you leave your riches?

4 Nothing will remain but to cringe among the captives
or fall among the slain.
Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away,
his hand is still upraised.

Romans 12:15-18

15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight.
17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.
18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.

Ezekiel 16:49-50

49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

Isaiah 1:1-31

1 The vision of Isaiah the son of A´moz that he visioned concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uz·zi´ah, Jo´tham, A´haz and Hez·e·ki´ah, kings of Judah:
2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth, for Jehovah himself has spoken: "Sons I have brought up and raised, but they themselves have revolted against me.
3 A bull well knows its buyer, and the ass the manger of its owner; Israel itself has not known, my own people have not behaved understandingly."
4 Woe to the sinful nation, the people heavy with error, an evildoing seed, ruinous sons! They have left Jehovah, they have treated the Holy One of Israel with disrespect, they have turned backwards.
5 Where else will YOU be struck still more, in that YOU add more revolt? The whole head is in a sick condition, and the whole heart is feeble.
6 From the sole of the foot even to the head there is no sound spot in it. Wounds and bruises and fresh stripes-they have not been squeezed out or bound up, nor has there been a softening with oil.
7 YOUR land is a desolation, YOUR cities are burned with fire; YOUR ground-right in front of YOU strangers are eating it up, and the desolation is like an overthrow by strangers.
8 And the daughter of Zion has been left remaining like a booth in a vineyard, like a lookout hut in a field of cucumbers, like a blockaded city.
9 Unless Jehovah of armies himself had left remaining to us just a few survivors, we should have become just like Sod´om, we should have resembled Go·mor´rah itself.
10 Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU dictators of Sod´om. Give ear to the law of our God, YOU people of Go·mor´rah.
11 "Of what benefit to me is the multitude of YOUR sacrifices?" says Jehovah. "I have had enough of whole burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed animals; and in the blood of young bulls and male lambs and he-goats I have taken no delight.
12 When YOU people keep coming in to see my face, who is it that has required this from YOUR hand, to trample my courtyards?
13 Stop bringing in any more valueless grain offerings. Incense-it is something detestable to me. New moon and sabbath, the calling of a convention-I cannot put up with the use of uncanny power along with the solemn assembly.
14 YOUR new moons and YOUR festal seasons my soul has hated. To me they have become a burden; I have become tired of bearing them.
15 And when YOU spread out YOUR palms, I hide my eyes from YOU. Even though YOU make many prayers, I am not listening; with bloodshed YOUR very hands have become filled.
16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the badness of YOUR dealings from in front of my eyes; cease to do bad.
17 Learn to do good; search for justice; set right the oppressor; render judgment for the fatherless boy; plead the cause of the widow."
18 "Come, now, YOU people, and let us set matters straight between us," says Jehovah. "Though the sins of YOU people should prove to be as scarlet, they will be made white just like snow; though they should be red like crimson cloth, they will become even like wool.
19 If YOU people show willingness and do listen, the good of the land YOU will eat.
20 But if YOU people refuse and are actually rebellious, with a sword YOU will be eaten up; for the very mouth of Jehovah has spoken [it]."
21 O how the faithful town has become a prostitute! She was full of justice; righteousness itself used to lodge in her, but now murderers.
22 Your silver itself has become scummy dross. Your wheat beer is diluted with water.
23 Your princes are stubborn and partners with thieves. Every one of them is a lover of a bribe and a chaser after gifts. For a fatherless boy they do not render judgment; and even the legal case of a widow does not get admittance to them.
24 Therefore the utterance of the [true] Lord, Jehovah of armies, the Powerful One of Israel, is: "Aha! I shall relieve myself of my adversaries, and I will avenge myself on my enemies.
25 And I will turn back my hand upon you, and I shall smelt away your scummy dross as with lye, and I will remove all your waste products.
26 And I will bring back again judges for you as at the first, and counselors for you as at the start. After this you will be called City of Righteousness, Faithful Town.
27 With justice Zion herself will be redeemed, and those returning of her, with righteousness.
28 And the crash of revolters and that of sinful ones will be at the same time, and those leaving Jehovah will come to their finish.
29 For they will be ashamed of the mighty trees that YOU people desired, and YOU will be abashed because of the gardens that YOU have chosen.
30 For YOU will become like a big tree the foliage of which is withering, and like a garden that has no water.
31 And the vigorous man will certainly become tow, and the product of his activity a spark; and both of them will certainly go up in flames at the same time, with no one to do the extinguishing."

Zechariah 7:9-10

"Thus says the Lord of hosts, Render true judgments, show kindness and mercy to one another, do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the sojourner, or the poor, and let none of you devise evil against another in your heart."

Matthew 23

23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.
24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!
25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness.
28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

Proverbs 22

1 A good name is more desirable than great riches;
to be esteemed is better than silver or gold.

2 Rich and poor have this in common:
The LORD is the Maker of them all.

3 A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge,
but the simple keep going and suffer for it.

4 Humility and the fear of the LORD
bring wealth and honor and life.

5 In the paths of the wicked lie thorns and snares,
but he who guards his soul stays far from them.

6 Train a child in the way he should go,
and when he is old he will not turn from it.

7 The rich rule over the poor,
and the borrower is servant to the lender.

8 He who sows wickedness reaps trouble,
and the rod of his fury will be destroyed.

9 A generous man will himself be blessed,
for he shares his food with the poor.

10 Drive out the mocker, and out goes strife;
quarrels and insults are ended.

11 He who loves a pure heart and whose speech is gracious
will have the king for his friend.

12 The eyes of the LORD keep watch over knowledge,
but he frustrates the words of the unfaithful.

13 The sluggard says, "There is a lion outside!"
or, "I will be murdered in the streets!"

14 The mouth of an adulteress is a deep pit;
he who is under the LORD's wrath will fall into it.

15 Folly is bound up in the heart of a child,
but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.

16 He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth
and he who gives gifts to the rich-both come to poverty.

James 2

1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

what_now: hinten: , why are American protestants more conservative in their ideology than catholics world-wide?

I'm not sure you can say that. The LOUD protestants are your Evangelicals- usually of the Mormon or Baptists persuasion, but that's not all of them.

Up here in New England, we have UU's, Quakers, Anglicans, Congregationalists, Methodists, Episcopals, Presbyterians etc etc, and a lot of them are VERY liberal.

The last two elections of Bush would disagree with you (plus untold religious channels that make baby Jesus cry).

Ryan2065: It's the bible, an argument can always be made that he was opposed to it. Think of it this way, would Jesus be in favor of me being able to force you to give to charity? If not, why would he be in favor of a government forcing someone to give to charity?

Jesus wasn't a libertarian. As illustrated by Matthew 22, forcing people to pay their taxes was fine by him. Or have you not noticed "The United States of America" stamped across the front and back of your money?

Can you point to a place in the Bible where Jesus opposed forcing people to do the right thing? Ever? He was rather snarky with his apostles, that's for sure.

Ryan2065: "Jesus taught that we should give to the poor and support widows, but he never said that we should elect a government that would take money from our neighbor's hand and give it to the poor," Falwell says.

It's been awhile since I've picked up a Bible, but I don't see what is wrong with this statement...

There's nothing really wrong with the content, true. Then again, Jesus didn't really say a whole lot about representative government or free market capitalism.

What is wrong, however, is that Falwell is attempting to use what Jesus said to advance his political agenda. We really have no idea what Jesus would have thought about it, but here's Falwell telling us that it goes against Jesus. Besides, there are plenty of things our government does that Jesus never said we should do that Falwell doesn't openly condemn in the same manor. Torture, for example. I'm pretty sure Jesus would have been against torture.

the fark atheists won't know who to cheer for once this hits the main page.

The-Brain: BECK 19:90

Look it up, people!

Also, check out CRUISE 41:9 and ELFMAN 5^31:pi-1

hubiestubert: 6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?

That must be from the Karl Marx edition of the bible.

I love these arguments. It's like arguing what Captain Picard would say about an issue.

Weaver95: the fark atheists won't know who to cheer for once this hits the main page.

Sure we will. In a contest between the whole of Christianity and Beck and Mormonism, I'd take Christianity any time. I still don't believe in it and there are parts of it rotten to the core but it doesn't ooze hate and insanity like Beck does.

WhyteRaven74: Here you go, evangelicals pissed off at Beck (pops).

These would be what are old school evangelicals, though they call themselves something new. Evangelicals used to come in many varieties, including raging liberals. Nice to see that coming back.

To be fair, Evantelicals and Fundamentalists started out in the far more Liberal end of the spectrum. It wasn't until money started to enter the question, that things began swinging harder and harder Right.

hinten: what_now: hinten: , why are American protestants more conservative in their ideology than catholics world-wide?

I'm not sure you can say that. The LOUD protestants are your Evangelicals- usually of the Mormon or Baptists persuasion, but that's not all of them.

Up here in New England, we have UU's, Quakers, Anglicans, Congregationalists, Methodists, Episcopals, Presbyterians etc etc, and a lot of them are VERY liberal.

The last two elections of Bush would disagree with you (plus untold religious channels that make baby Jesus cry).

Well again, these are the LOUD protestants. I know a lot of religious people who never ever talk about their faith, because it's deeply personal to them.

And Bush was elected based on fear, excellent campaigning by his team, and terrible campaigning on the parts of both of his opponents.

SphericalTime: As illustrated by Matthew 22, forcing people to pay their taxes was fine by him.

Right.

SphericalTime: Or have you not noticed "The United States of America" stamped across the front and back of your money?

Jesus had nothing to do with that.

SphericalTime: Can you point to a place in the Bible where Jesus opposed forcing people to do the right thing? Ever? He was rather snarky with his apostles, that's for sure.

I never read anything in the bible where Jesus would go around punishing people for not donating to his cause.

The Bible seemed to use suffering as a test for heaven. If you tried everything in your power to ease others suffering, you would go to heaven, if you didn't, then you wouldn't. I've never seen anything where he was preaching that we should essentially be Robin Hoods.

sweetmelissa31: hubiestubert: 6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?

That must be from the Karl Marx edition of the bible.

Jeebus and God loves the crap out of the Proletariat. That's why he made so damn many of them...