Marla Singer's Laundry: jpo2269: I predict someone will have a problem with this... Cue the outrage and anti-Israeli comments..

Oh. So I can go ahead and use my Holocaust gag for the commercial I'm producing for The Light House, which sells lamps and...yeah, lampshades? Because as long as EVERYONE isn't offended, it's okay, correct?

Don't tempt me to make up a tagline.

I was actually waiting for a punchline. :(

That would've definitely added some levity to this thread (and most threads involving the usual wharrgarrbl crew).

Tatsuma: spawn73: Dumbass, the Israelis have walled them /in/. They can't go anywhere, not even between ghettos without being hassled (when they are allowed to go).

Ah yes, the fearsome presence of the IDF in area A, where more than 90% of all arabs in Judea and Samaria live. Or in Gaza.

Good to see you know exactly what you are talking about.

I do.

Either you don't, or you're a liar.

The settlements creates ghettos as walls are put up, essentially locking the Palestinians in so they can't access their fields or move about freely.

If you truly believe you're in the right, then Google the subject, and come back with an apology. I Googled the subject, and all the hits was precisely aligned with my claim.

give me doughnuts: spickus: Thunderpipes: you do realize why Israel owns that territory now, right? They were invaded full scale by their neighbors, Israel kicked the invader's ass, and kept some of the territory.

The Palestinians invaded Israel?

Israel didn't take any territory from the Palestinians. They took it from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon after those countries (and a couple others) invaded Israel.


Eh? How long have Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon held Jerusalem?

BTW, I once read that Israel kicked off the 1967 war by pre-emptively bombing Egyptian air force units because they thought (thought, mind you) that they were going to be attacked. This true?

And why did Israel, having been attacked from the outside, use the opportunity to annex.. (no, that's wrong, they didn't annex anything) Well, take more west bank land and consolidate their position in territory they desire, but have no real right to? (outside of biblical).

give me doughnuts: Only if you enjoy being a hypocrite.

Ok, what where why again?

Toht: give me doughnuts: spickus: Thunderpipes: you do realize why Israel owns that territory now, right? They were invaded full scale by their neighbors, Israel kicked the invader's ass, and kept some of the territory.

The Palestinians invaded Israel?

Israel didn't take any territory from the Palestinians. They took it from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon after those countries (and a couple others) invaded Israel.


Eh? How long have Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon held Jerusalem?

BTW, I once read that Israel kicked off the 1967 war by pre-emptively bombing Egyptian air force units because they thought (thought, mind you) that they were going to be attacked. This true?

And why did Israel, having been attacked from the outside, use the opportunity to annex.. (no, that's wrong, they didn't annex anything) Well, take more west bank land and consolidate their position in territory they desire, but have no real right to? (outside of biblical).

Holy Jesus fail Batman......Let me guess, you always won a trophy in school and never kept score in T-ball?

Marla Singer's Laundry 2010-03-11 10:18:00 AM
jpo2269: I predict someone will have a problem with this... Cue the outrage and anti-Israeli comments..

Oh. So I can go ahead and use my Holocaust gag for the commercial I'm producing for The Light House, which sells lamps and...yeah, lampshades? Because as long as EVERYONE isn't offended, it's okay, correct?

Don't tempt me to make up a tagline.

If I showed a little leg, would that be enough temptation?

This one is for Tatsuma:

http://stopthewall.org/downloads/maps/wallpostermap2.69mb.pdf

A 2.69MB map of the Westbank (don't shift the goalposts by starting to talk about Gaza, you'd loose that one anyway as the two conditions relate precisely by Israel attempting to make Gaza seem like the Palestinians have their "own country", so they freely can continue their crap in the Westbank) detailing which roads only Isralis can use, and which Palestinians can use, and the fences etc. creating the ghettos.

If you want to maintain that I am not 100% correct, then you're being deliberatly obtuse.

Now note, I am not arguing anything else, other than the fact that the Palestinians are being walled inside ghettos, just like the Jews in Poland, that was my argument, and that is the case.

Mishno: This right after the Israeli government anounces another 1600 housing units to be built in East Jerusalem during a visit from the United States Vice President who was on a Palistine/Israel peace mission. The Israeli govnerment seems to think it's immune to international opinion.

When is the world going to start treating Israel like they did South Africa during apartheid?

I say the U.S. should withdraw all aid from Israel and promise it to the Palistinians if the Palestinians renounce violence. If Israel still fails to bargain in good faith and not rival North Korea in their intransigence, the family of nations should bring international sanctions againd them.

I'm with you right up to the point that you suggest extending aid to the Palestinians. That's just the flip-side of the same mistake we are making now. What we actually need to do is cut ALL aid, to ALL parties involved, and go back to minding our own business. Meddling in the tribal wars of the Middle east is contrary to our own national self-interest, and we AREN'T HELPING.

One more thing. If Israel has "taken" these territories, why haven't they been annexed into Israel proper? Why stop at occupation if you took the ground and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it?

I'll tell you, I sure hope it doesn't have anything to do with Ethnic Purity.


/'cause that's something we've seen before

give me doughnuts: Toht: And why did Israel, having been attacked from the outside, use the opportunity to annex.. (no, that's wrong, they didn't annex anything) Well, take more west bank land and consolidate their position in territory they desire, but have no real right to? (outside of biblical).

Because defeating your enemies, and taking their land has been the way countries have been made since the concept of "my turf vs. your turf" was invented.
There are several millenia of precedents on just about every continent.


So, like the other guy said earlier...

Why did we kick Saddam out of Kuwait?

jso2897:
I'm with you right up to the point that you suggest extending aid to the Palestinians. That's just the flip-side of the same mistake we are making now. What we actually need to do is cut ALL aid, to ALL parties involved, and go back to minding our own business. Meddling in the tribal wars of the Middle east is contrary to our own national self-interest, and we AREN'T HELPING.

I mean humanitarian and economic development aid, if and only if, the elected Palistinian government renounces violence. I'm not talking about buying them rockets or white phosphorous artillery shells. I just think the Palistinian people deserve a little help after what the Israelis have done to them.

Thunderpipes:

Holy Jesus fail Batman......Let me guess, you always won a trophy in school and never kept score in T-ball?


And that's part of why I stopped supporting Israel. Not just the whole Occupied Territories thing, but the modern day SA that troll the nets.

Back to hasabra with you. You have no power here.

jpo2269: hitlersbrain 2010-03-11 09:16:08 AM
jpo2269: I predict someone will have a problem with this... Cue the outrage and anti-Israeli comments..

I would have no more problem with them than I do with any other terrorist state. If my country was not arming the pieces of shiat.

So you are Iranian, or would that be Persian?

No I meant the Israeli pieces of shiat. Those pieces of shiat that get high tech weapons from us and use them to blast unarmed civilians and claim it's a more legitimate form of terrorism because the pieces of shiat wear uniforms and stand behind armor given to them by the US.

THOSE pieces of shiat. Do you see which pieces of shiat I mean? I can explain further if need be.

Cormee: ...still waiting

I gave a link to the poll. You missed it.


jakomo002: Right. Except, the Jews in Germany never had to deal with a 50 year Illegal Military Occupation

Then why did the palestinian violence predates the occupation ? why do you ignore the fact (as always) that the palestinians consider all of Israel as "occupation" ?

Since everyone there has such a great sense of humor, perhaps someone could make a funny tagline about the inflated prices of their competitors. Something about their...hollow-costs.

abigsmurf: Collective punishment is wrong. End of story.

When the technology to separate Hamas terrorists from their human shields, their own civilians which they place under fire on purpose, is developed, it will be used.

The best you can say about Israel's actions is "they're not quite as bad as the Nazis

No i was simply pointing out the stupidity of the analogy.
If you want something similar to the nazis consider the palestinians various terrorist organizations calling for the eradication of Israel.

I bet you didn't know that one of the arabs (now calling themselves palestinians) known leaders back in the day was Hitler's pal and he was quite fond of Hitler's approach to the jewish problem. Must be the occupation! oh wait..


Here's Mohammad Amin al-Husayni with his pal:

Mishno: jso2897:
I'm with you right up to the point that you suggest extending aid to the Palestinians. That's just the flip-side of the same mistake we are making now. What we actually need to do is cut ALL aid, to ALL parties involved, and go back to minding our own business. Meddling in the tribal wars of the Middle east is contrary to our own national self-interest, and we AREN'T HELPING.

I mean humanitarian and economic development aid, if and only if, the elected Palistinian government renounces violence. I'm not talking about buying them rockets or white phosphorous artillery shells. I just think the Palistinian people deserve a little help after what the Israelis have done to them.

I know what you are talking about - you made it clear in your Boobies. the problem is that it will always be perceived as taking sides - it would cause political turmoil at home, and keep us involved in the situation.
Insanity can be defined as "doing the same thing repeatedly, expecting a different result each time'.
We have been meddling in the Middle east since WWII. It has been a total exercise in futility. I am a little bit surprised, at this point, to hear people still maintaining that it would "work" if we somehow, some way, "did it right".
You are entitled to your opinion, of course - but this American is sick and tired of trying to play cop and nanny to the whole damn world, and will be casting my votes accordingly.

jso2897: I know what you are talking about - you made it clear in your Boobies.

Oh, that old line. No, you can't see them.

Marla Singer's Laundry: jso2897: I know what you are talking about - you made it clear in your Boobies.

Oh, that old line. No, you can't see them.

Can't blame a guy for trying, can you? :D

TappingTheVein:
I bet you didn't know that one of the arabs (now calling themselves palestinians) known leaders back in the day was Hitler's pal and he was quite fond of Hitler's approach to the jewish problem. Must be the occupation! oh wait..


Here's Mohammad Amin al-Husayni with his pal:

See, Jews and Arabs CAN coexist.

jso2897: Marla Singer's Laundry: jso2897: I know what you are talking about - you made it clear in your Boobies.

Oh, that old line. No, you can't see them.

Can't blame a guy for trying, can you? :D

Was that the filter? I love it when that happens.

It's better than a first f***.

Marla Singer's Laundry: jso2897: Marla Singer's Laundry: jso2897: I know what you are talking about - you made it clear in your Boobies.

Oh, that old line. No, you can't see them.

Can't blame a guy for trying, can you? :D

Was that the filter? I love it when that happens.

It's better than a first f***.

Ok, why didn't it do it there?

Marla Singer's Laundry: Marla Singer's Laundry: jso2897: Marla Singer's Laundry: jso2897: I know what you are talking about - you made it clear in your Boobies.

Oh, that old line. No, you can't see them.

Can't blame a guy for trying, can you? :D

Was that the filter? I love it when that happens.

It's better than a first f***.

Ok, why didn't it do it there?

It was the filter - I had temporarily forgotten about it.

hitlersbrain: jpo2269: hitlersbrain 2010-03-11 09:16:08 AM
jpo2269: I predict someone will have a problem with this... Cue the outrage and anti-Israeli comments..

I would have no more problem with them than I do with any other terrorist state. If my country was not arming the pieces of shiat.

So you are Iranian, or would that be Persian?

No I meant the Israeli pieces of shiat. Those pieces of shiat that get high tech weapons from us and use them to blast unarmed civilians and claim it's a more legitimate form of terrorism because the pieces of shiat wear uniforms and stand behind armor given to them by the US.

THOSE pieces of shiat. Do you see which pieces of shiat I mean? I can explain further if need be.

Not only do they use U.S. supplied weapons against unarmed civilians, they sell them to the Chinese who sell copies of them to the Iranians who sell or give those to the Shiites in Iraq who use them against U.S. troops.

The Israelis are not our allies.

So basically Fark says it is wrong to kill terrorists, and those that do are evil.

Got it.

I have another question.

Does "destroying Israel" = "destroying all the Jews"?

And I'm not clear on how a picture from WWII is proof that all Arabs want to eradicate the Jews and that makes them like Hitler somehow??

If it follows that Israel = All Jews, then I can follow the logic that Israel can fight to preserve their race (religion?). However, when I ask if Israel = All Jews, I'm given a resounding no.

So, I'll ask it again:

Does the destruction (or dismantling) of Israel = destruction of the Jews?

This thread is so full of...

Toht: And I'm not clear on how a picture from WWII is proof that all Arabs want to eradicate the Jews and that makes them like Hitler somehow??

You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you.

The Jews know that many Christians feel obligated to stand with Israel because the Bible tells them that, even though they are unsaved and going to hell, they are still God's "chosen people".

It sometimes makes we wonder if Christianity itself is a strategic program implemented by Jews!

Mishno: hitlersbrain: jpo2269: hitlersbrain 2010-03-11 09:16:08 AM
jpo2269: I predict someone will have a problem with this... Cue the outrage and anti-Israeli comments..

I would have no more problem with them than I do with any other terrorist state. If my country was not arming the pieces of shiat.

So you are Iranian, or would that be Persian?

No I meant the Israeli pieces of shiat. Those pieces of shiat that get high tech weapons from us and use them to blast unarmed civilians and claim it's a more legitimate form of terrorism because the pieces of shiat wear uniforms and stand behind armor given to them by the US.

THOSE pieces of shiat. Do you see which pieces of shiat I mean? I can explain further if need be.

Not only do they use U.S. supplied weapons against unarmed civilians, they sell them to the Chinese who sell copies of them to the Iranians who sell or give those to the Shiites in Iraq who use them against U.S. troops.

The Israelis are not our allies.

Almost none of our ostensible "allies" are. Israel is hardly unique in that. We are the big, rich kids on the block - and most of those who don't actively hate us are quite prepared to stab us in the back if it's worth a nickel to them to do so. You can argue over how much of this is our own fault - but it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

Tatsuma:

So you are saying that settlements, the wall and IDF checkpoints inside Area A are ruining the lives of the arabs living in Judea and Samaria?


WTF is "Judea" and "Samaria"???

Please point out for me on map? I looked and looked, and all I can find is "Occupied West Bank".

TappingTheVein: Toht: And I'm not clear on how a picture from WWII is proof that all Arabs want to eradicate the Jews and that makes them like Hitler somehow??

You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you.


Okay, what was the point you were trying to get across with the pic?

Thunderpipes: So basically Fark says it is wrong to kill terrorists, and those that do are evil.

Got it.

Some on fark say killing unarmed civilians, burning holes in little kids with white phosphorous, blocking the importaion of medical supplies and humanitarian aid and usurping Palistinian property rights is immoral.

Killing terrorists is okay.

/Can burning holes in unarmed civilian children with white phosphorous be considered a terrorist action?

Toht: Okay, what was the point you were trying to get across with the pic?

Read the post above it.

TappingTheVein: aardwolf: I find the Israeli state a very sad reflection on humanity. How can a populace of often incredibly wealthy, educated and gifted individuals be so short sighted as to not see the irony of escaping from walled off ghettos and genocides to being the ones creating new ones?

yes those damn jews and their open goal of eradicating Germany and they were busy blowing up German coffee shops and pizza parlors at random. And bombing German cities with thousands of rockets.
And Israel sure sucks at this genocide business since the palestinian population have one of the largest growth percentage in the world.

I love retarded analogies.

Jews did use "terrorist" tactics against Nazi Germany and were justified in doing so. I'm sure some would have used rockets they had the chance...

Children in Gaza are suffering from malnutrition and many are born with birth defects because of the blockade. Israel have one of the strongest militaries in the world with financial and militaristic backing from the strongest superpower of them all and yet still poses like some kind of underdog even against a 3rd world advisary.

Until Palestinians are regarded as at least human by Israel at large the world at large will continue to oppose them. Not because of UN plots, anti-semitism, arab infiltration or any other kind of spin you'll see Tatsuma put on it but because they're gravely wrong.


oh and as far as Hamas's claim that they are going to wipe "Israel off the map" goes, take a look at the IDF, take a look at Hamas and laugh

jso2897:
I'm with you right up to the point that you suggest extending aid to the Palestinians. That's just the flip-side of the same mistake we are making now. What we actually need to do is cut ALL aid, to ALL parties involved, and go back to minding our own business. Meddling in the tribal wars of the Middle east is contrary to our own national self-interest, and we AREN'T HELPING.

QFT. Israel is a (sovereign state/illegitimate occupying force - pick your favorite). They can and should do what they think is in their interests. The Palestinians are (not a legitimate people/an oppressed and persecuted people - again, pick your favorite). They can and should do what they feel is in their best interests. My only objection is that they do it in part on my dime, and constantly drag us in to their fights which don't concern us and don't impact our strategic interests.

/spent quite a bit of time in Israel "on business"; loved the people, didn't care much for our "allies", the government, constantly giving us bogus intel to trick us into their fights.

Thunderpipes: So basically Fark says it is wrong to kill terrorists, and those that do are evil.

Got it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I suspect that would depend upon what you mean by "terrorists". If by "terrorists", you mean actual, individual human beings or groups thereof who actually engage in the tactics we call "terrorism", then i don't think you'd find too many people who disagree with the frequent necessity of killing them.
But there is no such thing as a "terrorist" ethnicity, or a "terrorist" religion, or a "terrorist" nationality. There are only the very small number of human beings who engage in terrorism, and the vast majority of humanity, who do not.

TappingTheVein: Toht: Okay, what was the point you were trying to get across with the pic?

Read the post above it.


I did, the guy was right. You rebutted with the pic. Was your point that since a pic of Hitler talking with an Arab exists, that Israel isn't actually doing things that are eerily familiar?

Toht: One more thing. If Israel has "taken" these territories, why haven't they been annexed into Israel proper? Why stop at occupation if you took the ground and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it?

I'll tell you, I sure hope it doesn't have anything to do with Ethnic Purity.


/'cause that's something we've seen before

They have been taking the ground... PR wise they can't do it in one swoop it's been going since they came from Europe...fake ass Israeli's want to be Arabs...stop calling it "Israeli Falafal" and no more Hookah for you..

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html

Tatsuma: jso2897: Almost none of our ostensible "allies" are. Israel is hardly unique in that. We are the big, rich kids on the block - and most of those who don't actively hate us are quite prepared to stab us in the back if it's worth a nickel to them to do so. You can argue over how much of this is our own fault - but it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

It goes both way. America is ready to sacrifice allies in the name of self-benefit.

Welcome to the world of International Politics. No such things as friends, only temporary allies based on a mutually beneficial relationship

Quite true - and I have always favoured operating on the basis of the truth, rather than that of convenient and comforting fictions.

Tatsuma: spawn73: I do.

Either you don't, or you're a liar.

The settlements creates ghettos as walls are put up, essentially locking the Palestinians in so they can't access their fields or move about freely.

So you are saying that settlements, the wall and IDF checkpoints inside Area A are ruining the lives of the arabs living in Judea and Samaria?

spawn73: If you truly believe you're in the right, then Google the subject, and come back with an apology. I Googled the subject, and all the hits was precisely aligned with my claim.

Oh my. Should I start calling you Dr. Spawn soon?

Yes, I most certaintly am saying that the walls, checkpoints, ghettos, stealing of land is ruining the prospect of a lively hood and a Palestinian state there.

I will also further say that it is not the people of Israel doing this crap, it is Jews from USA and Jews from Russia (who are placed there) who does it.

But yeah, though I just Googled the map for you so I could be sure you couldn't refute that the Palestinians are put in ghettos, you're welcome to refer to me as doctor if that really impresses you.

---

The problem though seen from Israels side, both from the moderates and the extremists is that they're creating a situation where the Palestinians simple say "forget it, we can't have a country under theese circumstances, we want to be a part of Israel". What then?

The second the Palestinians forfeit this wish, then Israel in effect becomes an aparthaid state, a term which is very tangible to the rest of the world, and one that will have heavy consequences for Israel.

I know the extremists would wish for all of the Palestinians to just bugger off to Gaza, but that's not happening. The presence of the Palestinians is a reality they will have to deal with.

Tatsuma: jso2897: I can't speak for anyone else, but I suspect that would depend upon what you mean by "terrorists". If by "terrorists", you mean actual, individual human beings or groups thereof who actually engage in the tactics we call "terrorism", then i don't think you'd find too many people who disagree with the frequent necessity of killing them.
But there is no such thing as a "terrorist" ethnicity, or a "terrorist" religion, or a "terrorist" nationality. There are only the very small number of human beings who engage in terrorism, and the vast majority of humanity, who do not. It depends on what the meaning of "is" is, sir

Hey! I told you before! That stain is just some half 'n half!