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(Yahoo) Fail Last year 2.4 million fewer tourists visited the US, which cost $509 billion. In related news, tourism in the US brings in an average of $212,000 per person. Still no cure for journalists who can't do math   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 178
More: Fail, disincentives, illegal aliens, tourists, maths, tourist attractions, journalists, Obama, cure  
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10530 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Mar 2010 at 5:21 PM   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!



178 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2010-03-08 04:48:58 PM
\Scratching head.
How do they get through customs with so much CASH on them?
Incredible.
 
2010-03-08 04:54:12 PM
chestermania: How do they get through customs with so much CASH on them?

You can use credit cards at any store in the network and debit cards in ATMs in the network.
 
wee [TotalFark]
2010-03-08 05:01:14 PM
I think that number is for all money spent related to tourism. Burger joints in tourist traps ordering more buns and cups, hotels buying cleaning supplies, whatever. Not just dollars spent by people visiting.

Maybe. Could be dodgy math, too.
 
2010-03-08 05:15:50 PM
Dollywood's expensive, man.
 
2010-03-08 05:15:58 PM
wee: I think that number is for all money spent related to tourism. Burger joints in tourist traps ordering more buns and cups, hotels buying cleaning supplies, whatever. Not just dollars spent by people visiting.

Maybe. Could be dodgy math, too.


In the end- the only thing that truly matters is how much they spend out of pocket. The rest is like computing GDP numbers
 
wee [TotalFark]
2010-03-08 05:18:32 PM
An-Unnecessarily-Long-Name: In the end- the only thing that truly matters is how much they spend out of pocket. The rest is like computing GDP numbers

I'm sure it's "good journalism" to use the highest number possible, same as it is to use scare quotes to add biased emphasis.
 
2010-03-08 05:20:25 PM
If the average is $212,000 dollars per person, and they are not using Euros or Francs, then they have Visa limits far beyond those of mortal men.

Could it be that every international traveler has the American Express Black card?
 
2010-03-08 05:21:11 PM
I think this is less about journalists who can't do math and more about travel associations that are really just lobbyist groups inflating any statistic they can find that makes it easier for them to define a problem that can only be addressed by giving them money. And then trusting that everybody will find the subject so farking boring that the only articles written about it in major media are microscopic blurbs in which "fact checking" ranks up there in importance about as high as "storytelling."
 
2010-03-08 05:22:18 PM
$212,000 per person?

As part of a four-night Disney vacation that gets you the "Hyena Level" dining plan.
 
2010-03-08 05:22:20 PM
Pfft. Everybody knows it's far more profitable to exploit resources than babysit a bunch of tourists...
 
2010-03-08 05:22:44 PM
wee: I think that number is for all money spent related to tourism. Burger joints in tourist traps ordering more buns and cups, hotels buying cleaning supplies, whatever. Not just dollars spent by people visiting.

Maybe. Could be dodgy math, too.


You're right that these sorts of studies generally use enonomic multiplier effects. Part of the problem there are industries themselves, like hospitality, that manufacture those numbers to trump up and promote the effect of local events that will benefit them in some way.

21k seems like a more reasonable (if still quite high) amount of economic activity per visitor. Perhaps a zero went AWOL.
 
2010-03-08 05:24:12 PM
These particular tourists seem like just the sort we should be encouraging to visit. Seems like a no-brainer.
 
2010-03-08 05:24:14 PM
I went to journalism school... they said there would be no math!
 
2010-03-08 05:24:24 PM
One dollar isn't just one dollar. If I send that dollar as a tourist that same dollar will become the wages of someone else will become the dollar that person spends in a grocery store and so on and so on. Money circulates and becomes more money. When people don't come here those dollars never enter the US economy for whatever economy those folks are coming from and become lost to us. This is why tourism is such a potent economic force - it effectively imports money. So yes - 2.4 million tourists can generate $509 billion dollars of commerce.

Still no cure for Farkers who can't do economics
 
2010-03-08 05:24:31 PM
From TFA: That money will come from a $10 fee paid by foreigners who do not pay for visas to enter the U.S.

if every foreigner that does not come to the US pays $10, we can balance the budget.

/fail for grammar
//I noticed, no one was willing to sign their name to the article
 
2010-03-08 05:25:18 PM
Mr. Coffee Nerves: $212,000 per person?

As part of a four-night Disney vacation that gets you the "Hyena Level" dining plan.


You owe me a new keyboard.
 
2010-03-08 05:26:39 PM
urger: Still no cure for Farkers who can't do economics

I understand your concept, but that multiplier effect seems to still be awfully high.
 
2010-03-08 05:27:49 PM
I wonder how big of a disparity there is between the average tourist expenses and someone like a Middle-Eastern oil sheik that comes to Vegas and blows a couple million on gambling and women. 212,000 per person sounds ludicrous if we assume that everyone is spending the same amount. But a few high rollers will start to even out the scales pretty quickly.
 
2010-03-08 05:28:05 PM
Maybe the journalist used to be a cop and $212,000 is the street value of a tourist.
 
2010-03-08 05:28:36 PM
the U.S. welcomed 2.4 million fewer overseas visitors last year than in 2000

The decline was over a nine year period

/still no cure for subbies who can't comprehend the article
 
2010-03-08 05:28:37 PM
Mr. Coffee Nerves: $212,000 per person?

As part of a four-night Disney vacation that gets you the "Hyena Level" dining plan.


/golfclap
 
2010-03-08 05:29:44 PM
Why so many fewer tourists?

It couldn't be because of the tightened security and mindless xenophobia and jingoism of the last 8 years, could it?
 
2010-03-08 05:30:30 PM
Slick Johnson: the U.S. welcomed 2.4 million fewer overseas visitors last year than in 2000

The decline was over a nine year period

/still no cure for subbies who can't comprehend the article


It's a damned short article, but the word "decade" does feature prominently within it. Poor subby.
 
2010-03-08 05:30:44 PM
To be fair that's only like 12.50 in euros
 
2010-03-08 05:31:54 PM
Just read some of those comments. I wasn't aware that most Yahoo users were also Freepers.
 
2010-03-08 05:32:18 PM
Rev.K: urger: Still no cure for Farkers who can't do economics

I understand your concept, but that multiplier effect seems to still be awfully high.


No disagreement - the estimates for this sort of thing are more voodoo then actual science to be frank. The exact numbers are almost certainly off but I would expect it to be within +-25% of the actual amounts. That sounds like a large range - and it is - but like I said: Economics is part magic and part math. The trick is figuring out which is which. Most people upon encountering it just assume it is all bullshiat and say things like subby's headline without realizing that those numbers are well within the realm of possibility.

Sorry - this is a pet peeve of mine
 
2010-03-08 05:32:23 PM
urger: One dollar isn't just one dollar. If I send that dollar as a tourist that same dollar will become the wages of someone else will become the dollar that person spends in a grocery store and so on and so on. Money circulates and becomes more money. When people don't come here those dollars never enter the US economy for whatever economy those folks are coming from and become lost to us. This is why tourism is such a potent economic force - it effectively imports money. So yes - 2.4 million tourists can generate $509 billion dollars of commerce.

Still no cure for Farkers who can't do economics


Exactly. The article says it is $32 billion in direct spending which accounts to $13k per tourist. That 13k then goes to the community who spends it several times until the government eventually gets it all.
 
2010-03-08 05:33:01 PM
vernonFL: Why so many fewer tourists?

It couldn't be because of the tightened security and mindless xenophobia and jingoism of the last 8 years, could it?


Right here.

Obama can sign all the bills he wants promoting tourism, but until we make the TSA a little less asshole-ish, tourism is not going to rebound.
 
2010-03-08 05:33:10 PM
I wouldn't come here a lot either, what with all the, ah, "security features" lately.
 
2010-03-08 05:33:14 PM
2,400,000 $10,000 1.5 $36,000,000,000
2,400,000 $10,000 1.7 $40,800,000,000
2,400,000 $25,000 1.7 $102,000,000,000
2,400,000 $50,000 2.0 $240,000,000,000
2,400,000 $50,000 4.0 $480,000,000,000

So further to my point, my very quick and dirty economic model shows 2.4 million tourists spending X dollars on vacation run through the economic multiplier in bold.

Even if 2.4 million tourists spent $50,000 EACH and the economic multiplier is deemed to be a magnitude of 4 (which is ridiculously inflated) you're still $29,000,000,000 short.

To close, there's a typo somewhere.
 
2010-03-08 05:33:21 PM
Subby has obviously never seen Russian tourists.
 
2010-03-08 05:34:54 PM
Gilligann: Just read some of those comments. I wasn't aware that most Yahoo users were also Freepers.

Yeah.. since Yahoo started the comments section is has gotten pretty bad in there. Used to be I had to actually click on the politics tab to experience that level of stupid.
 
2010-03-08 05:36:02 PM
Lazy journalist is lazy.

The Act is in response to worrisome evidence that the U.S. is losing ground to other countries in the global travel market. The U.S. welcomed 2.4 million fewer overseas visitors in 2009 than in 2000, and the failure to simply keep pace with the growth in international long-haul travel since 2000 has cost the U.S. economy an estimated $509 billion in total spending and $32 billion in direct tax receipts, according to the U.S. Travel Association.

$509 billion over 10 years doesn't seem nearly out of whack.
 
2010-03-08 05:36:58 PM
It seems like it's jaberwocky, but it's more fundamental economics.

If the tourists spend $10k, that gets paid out to people who can then spend it other ways, which then gets used in yet more ways.

That's how $10k can turn into $100k of economic activity. The $200k+ figure does seem a little bogus.
 
2010-03-08 05:37:42 PM
The calculations are correct. They are just for tourists visiting the Cayman Islands, not the US.


/A Novel And Efficient Synthesis Of Cadaverine
//Amy Bishop has a copy. It went well.
 
2010-03-08 05:38:17 PM
Aexia: $509 billion over 10 years doesn't seem nearly out of whack.

The rub. There it be.
 
2010-03-08 05:38:17 PM
The U.S. Travel Association is probably merely adding in all purchases made by their members using their income, all the further purchases made with the money by the next layer receiving it, and so on.

It's an old statistical trick used to exaggerate the importance of a particular business. I once saw an an "outdoor sports" writer value the Michigan deer hunting industry with adding several times the entire US auto industry's income to the state's economy.
 
2010-03-08 05:38:35 PM
Well maybe if Obama hadn't told everyone not to go to Vegas!
 
2010-03-08 05:38:46 PM
urger: One dollar isn't just one dollar. If I send that dollar as a tourist that same dollar will become the wages of someone else will become the dollar that person spends in a grocery store and so on and so on. Money circulates and becomes more money. When people don't come here those dollars never enter the US economy for whatever economy those folks are coming from and become lost to us. This is why tourism is such a potent economic force - it effectively imports money. So yes - 2.4 million tourists can generate $509 billion dollars of commerce.

Still no cure for Farkers who can't do economics


This. Tourist traps are just large ponzi schemes. Any decline in tourists has a rippling effect through the local economy.
 
2010-03-08 05:39:27 PM
Damn, I never knew the street value of tourists was so high.
 
2010-03-08 05:40:48 PM
wildcardjack: It seems like it's jaberwocky, but it's more fundamental economics.

If the tourists spend $10k, that gets paid out to people who can then spend it other ways, which then gets used in yet more ways.

That's how $10k can turn into $100k of economic activity. The $200k+ figure does seem a little bogus.


Add in property taxes collected by hotels that wouldn't need to be built, room taxes that are over 10% in some areas, the number of high rollers that spend 6 months staying in a $4000 / night hotel room ($720,000 right there), condo-hotels that allow people to buy what's essentially a time share in the US, etc.

There's a lot of hidden foreign investment in the US because of hotel industries. Sometimes these even involve making money from a foreign investor who reserves but never even uses the room.

There's some math problems, but when you add in all factors plus the highest of high rollers you can really blow the curve on things like this.
 
2010-03-08 05:41:30 PM
The numbers may be wrong, but your headline is also wrong.

"Fallacy of Averages. Imagine standing with one foot on a keg of ice and the other in a fire. Your average body temperature may be fine, but the extremes will kill you! The fallacy of averages is the fallacious results you may get when replacing data with their expected values."
 
2010-03-08 05:43:03 PM
I assume that's over the course of ten years. Still seems high, though.
 
2010-03-08 05:45:54 PM
mavrickatubc: The numbers may be wrong, but your headline is also wrong.

"Fallacy of Averages. Imagine standing with one foot on a keg of ice and the other in a fire. Your average body temperature may be fine, but the extremes will kill you! The fallacy of averages is the fallacious results you may get when replacing data with their expected values."


A historian, an engineer and a statistician are duck hunting. a duck rises from the lake. the historian fires first, and shoots 10' over the duck. then the engineer shoulders the shotgun and shoots 10' under the duck. the statistician exclaimed "got him!".
 
2010-03-08 05:46:58 PM
That's a hell of a week in Vegas. A "why am I not dead"?!" kind of week.
 
2010-03-08 05:47:35 PM
ultraholland
Damn, I never knew the street value of tourists was so high.

These are high quality Cuban tourists, best on the market.
 
2010-03-08 05:48:02 PM
Gilligann: Just read some of those comments. I wasn't aware that most Yahoo users were also Freepers.

Came here to say this. I don't think I ever really read Yahoo comments before. Sort by highest rated and I think you can quickly find out where all the Ron Paul supporters are hanging out now.
 
2010-03-08 05:49:58 PM
Subby: Still no cure for journalists who can't do math

No cure for subbies who don't understand economics either ...
 
2010-03-08 05:50:21 PM
i257.photobucket.com
 
2010-03-08 05:50:57 PM
$509 billion:

ten years worth, 2.4 million people, factor of 4 multiplier effect = about $10,000 per tourist on average.


seems about right.
 
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