NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

memo to Ralph Wilson: DO NOT take Tebow or Clausen, get a f-ing O-LINE! it's sad that they haven't had a good center since Kent Hull.

It's funny how so many arm-chair pundits and sports reporters make Tebow out to be a "system quaterback" who's skills ended in his last game in College and only his intangibles are worth anything. They guy has had success at every level so far, and monumental success to be sure. He was a State Champion in high school, essentially leading his team to state, won the Heisman and was nominated 3 times total, won 2 national championships and maybe the best college player of all time. "His throwing motion isn't NFL quality" ...neither was Bernie Kozars or lots of other players for that matter. "He doesn't plant his feet when he throws and he moves around too much" ....umm ever see a guy named Randall CUnningham or perhaps Fran Tarkenton? How is a mobile QB a bad thing? I know he ran the option in College, but if anyone was suited to run it in the pros, it's Tebow. I keep hearing how lineman and LBs will kill him in the pros if he runs, but do you really believe that will be the case every time when we are talking about 6'3 250 lbs? He may not be Ray Lewis' size, but I'll take those odds.

Seems like everyone is reaching to hate Tebow instead of what it's being portrayed to be, and thats man crushes reaching for something good. Everyone made a big stink about his Godliness, as if that ever mattered. It's funny that we used to rate players like Randy Moss as having "character issues" which we've all seen can turn out to be nothing but BS, and yet here we have a man of seemingly flawless character and we can't do anything but attack it? In a world of guys who won't sign autographs, selfish players, massive salaries, and guys taking plays off, having a Tebow on your NFL team seems like a no brainer. If nothing else he brings a great attitude, a willingness to sacrifice and play any position for the win, and he puts butts in the seats.

Seems like perhaps all those who hate Tebow don't like what reflection of themselves they seen when they look at him; young, athletic, sound minded, moral, charismatic, popular, rich, etc.

The Cardinals need him, so that he may take up the banner of Jesus in Warner's stead.

Roger Arseways: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

memo to Ralph Wilson: DO NOT take Tebow or Clausen, get a f-ing O-LINE! it's sad that they haven't had a good center since Kent Hull.

THIS

My gut feeling screams bust.

I guess the 'Hawks could use someone to pray for Hasselbeck's health. Why they'd waste a draft pick on an otherwise worthless person is beyond me.

IKanHazaBukkit: My gut feeling screams bust.

wrt Clausen -- what happened the last time the Bills took a marginal college QB in the 1st round who was Southern California? Do I really need to ask this?

Pope_of_Chilitown: It's funny how so many arm-chair pundits and sports reporters make Tebow out to be a "system quaterback" who's skills ended in his last game in College and only his intangibles are worth anything. They guy has had success at every level so far, and monumental success to be sure. He was a State Champion in high school, essentially leading his team to state, won the Heisman and was nominated 3 times total, won 2 national championships and maybe the best college player of all time. "His throwing motion isn't NFL quality" ...neither was Bernie Kozars or lots of other players for that matter. "He doesn't plant his feet when he throws and he moves around too much" ....umm ever see a guy named Randall CUnningham or perhaps Fran Tarkenton? How is a mobile QB a bad thing? I know he ran the option in College, but if anyone was suited to run it in the pros, it's Tebow. I keep hearing how lineman and LBs will kill him in the pros if he runs, but do you really believe that will be the case every time when we are talking about 6'3 250 lbs? He may not be Ray Lewis' size, but I'll take those odds.

Seems like everyone is reaching to hate Tebow instead of what it's being portrayed to be, and thats man crushes reaching for something good. Everyone made a big stink about his Godliness, as if that ever mattered. It's funny that we used to rate players like Randy Moss as having "character issues" which we've all seen can turn out to be nothing but BS, and yet here we have a man of seemingly flawless character and we can't do anything but attack it? In a world of guys who won't sign autographs, selfish players, massive salaries, and guys taking plays off, having a Tebow on your NFL team seems like a no brainer. If nothing else he brings a great attitude, a willingness to sacrifice and play any position for the win, and he puts butts in the seats.

Seems like perhaps all those who hate Tebow don't like what reflection of themselves they seen when they look at him; young, athletic, sound minded, moral, charismatic, popular, rich, etc.

Tim Tebow is a shorter and nicer Ryan Leaf.

from Southern California, i'm outraged that this discussion is even happening...

Pope_of_Chilitown: I know he ran the option in College, but if anyone was suited to run it in the pros, it's Tebow Eric Crouch.

FTFY

Pope_of_Chilitown: It's funny how so many arm-chair pundits and sports reporters make Tebow out to be a "system quaterback" who's skills ended in his last game in College and only his intangibles are worth anything. They guy has had success at every level so far, and monumental success to be sure. He was a State Champion in high school, essentially leading his team to state, won the Heisman and was nominated 3 times total, won 2 national championships and maybe the best college player of all time. "His throwing motion isn't NFL quality" ...neither was Bernie Kozars or lots of other players for that matter. "He doesn't plant his feet when he throws and he moves around too much" ....umm ever see a guy named Randall CUnningham or perhaps Fran Tarkenton? How is a mobile QB a bad thing? I know he ran the option in College, but if anyone was suited to run it in the pros, it's Tebow. I keep hearing how lineman and LBs will kill him in the pros if he runs, but do you really believe that will be the case every time when we are talking about 6'3 250 lbs? He may not be Ray Lewis' size, but I'll take those odds.

Seems like everyone is reaching to hate Tebow instead of what it's being portrayed to be, and thats man crushes reaching for something good. Everyone made a big stink about his Godliness, as if that ever mattered. It's funny that we used to rate players like Randy Moss as having "character issues" which we've all seen can turn out to be nothing but BS, and yet here we have a man of seemingly flawless character and we can't do anything but attack it? In a world of guys who won't sign autographs, selfish players, massive salaries, and guys taking plays off, having a Tebow on your NFL team seems like a no brainer. If nothing else he brings a great attitude, a willingness to sacrifice and play any position for the win, and he puts butts in the seats.

Seems like perhaps all those who hate Tebow don't like what reflection of themselves they seen when they look at him; young, athletic, sound minded, moral, charismatic, popular, rich, etc.

The problem with that logic is that there are a LOT of guys that have success in college that never go on to success in the pros, in all sports.

They are two different games, with smaller, slower athletes.

BTW, are you the same POCT that emails The Score?

jake_lex

Umm...hate to break it to you but he'll be gone before the 5th and maybe the 4th

Pope_of_Chilitown: Seems like perhaps all those who hate Tebow don't like what reflection of themselves they seen when they look at him; young, athletic, sound minded, moral, charismatic, popular, rich, etc.

I don't hate him, I just think he would be a terrible NFL quarterback. A lot of people have had that "success at every level" thing. That's worthless when making the transition from college to the NFL.

WhyteRaven74: Pope_of_Chilitown: I keep hearing how lineman and LBs will kill him in the pros if he runs, but do you really believe that will be the case every time when we are talking about 6'3 250 lbs?

He sucks at taking snaps under center. Most NFL plays involve the QB taking snaps from under center. And Cunningham could get the ball out of his hand in a hurry, which is essential if you want to run around. If you're a pocket QB you don't need to get the ball out of your hands that fast, unless of course the pocket collapse. But when you're on the move, you may not get time to set your feet and get the ball out. Which means if your throwing motion involves going way back and so on, you're screwed. You need to be able to just fling the ball out there.

Also size and arm strength aren't really much of anything to write home about, see JaMarcus Russell.

Does this seem like nitpicking? Our QB in high school had an ugly motion, almost never set his feet to throw, and led the conference in every passing category.

All your points are football theory. In theory a QB needs to have a more compact motion if they are on the run. Does that mean a QB HAS to have this talent to be successful? No. Jeff Garcia has quite a bit of success playing the QB position and following little to none of the popular theories (in fact, at SJSU they ran an offense specifically designed for Jeff only, talk about "system QB").Popular theories in football include "You can't be short and play WR" "DBs can't be bulky" "You can't play LB and be under 6'0"" and such nuggets of wisdom we all know to have exceptions. I'm saying, take these things into account, but perhaps give Tebow a little bit of credit for having maybe worked these things out in his own way considering the level of success he's had. Had Tebow had less success I might be inclined to agree with some of these assesments, but it seems like he wins, and I can't really harp on someone's "throwing motion" when they have this level of success.

Orgasmatron138: Pope_of_Chilitown: It's funny how so many arm-chair pundits and sports reporters make Tebow out to be a "system quaterback" who's skills ended in his last game in College and only his intangibles are worth anything. They guy has had success at every level so far, and monumental success to be sure. He was a State Champion in high school, essentially leading his team to state, won the Heisman and was nominated 3 times total, won 2 national championships and maybe the best college player of all time. "His throwing motion isn't NFL quality" ...neither was Bernie Kozars or lots of other players for that matter. "He doesn't plant his feet when he throws and he moves around too much" ....umm ever see a guy named Randall CUnningham or perhaps Fran Tarkenton? How is a mobile QB a bad thing? I know he ran the option in College, but if anyone was suited to run it in the pros, it's Tebow. I keep hearing how lineman and LBs will kill him in the pros if he runs, but do you really believe that will be the case every time when we are talking about 6'3 250 lbs? He may not be Ray Lewis' size, but I'll take those odds.

Seems like everyone is reaching to hate Tebow instead of what it's being portrayed to be, and thats man crushes reaching for something good. Everyone made a big stink about his Godliness, as if that ever mattered. It's funny that we used to rate players like Randy Moss as having "character issues" which we've all seen can turn out to be nothing but BS, and yet here we have a man of seemingly flawless character and we can't do anything but attack it? In a world of guys who won't sign autographs, selfish players, massive salaries, and guys taking plays off, having a Tebow on your NFL team seems like a no brainer. If nothing else he brings a great attitude, a willingness to sacrifice and play any position for the win, and he puts butts in the seats.

Seems like perhaps all those who hate Tebow don't like what reflection of themselves they seen when they look at him; young, athletic, sound minded, moral, charismatic, popular, rich, etc.

The problem with that logic is that there are a LOT of guys that have success in college that never go on to success in the pros, in all sports.

They are two different games, with smaller, slower athletes.

BTW, are you the same POCT that emails The Score?

Sorry thats not me. I've quietly listened to this stuff for some time now, but in my experience PLAYING football, I know too many great players who were overlooked by colleges AND pros because of such "flaws" in their game. NFL scouts get blinders on, and thats why you see more guys like Leaf, Harrington, Carr, etc who fit that MOLD but can't actually play worth a damn. I know QBs who worked for years to change their stances, motions, and what not in hopes of attracting NFL or college scouts, and all it ended up doing was making them worse players because they betrayed the way in which they knew they could play. I think thats what your going to get out of some modified Tebow, flashes of what we know he can be, but ultimately a flawed QB who thinks things over too much.

I see what your saying but it seems silly to negate his accomplishments because others have had success and failed at the pro level.

Pope_of_ChilitownDoes this seem like nitpicking? Our QB in high school had an ugly motion, almost never set his feet to throw, and led the conference in every passing category.


Jesus Christ, you cannot be serious.

I_Fly_Planes: Umm...hate to break it to you but he'll be gone before the 5th and maybe the 4th

I agree. Best case (for him) is late 2nd. Worst case is 4th. A lot of you guys are getting worked up over nothing. By far all the big money is gone after the first round. Cutting a 3rd round guy is a trivial expense and that's in fact what happens to the vast majority of them.

Pope_of_Chilitown:
Does this seem like nitpicking? Our QB in high school had an ugly motion, almost never set his feet to throw, and led the conference in every passing category.

*facepalm*

Unless your high school quarterback was Pat White, you just disproved your own point.

Your throwing motion, footwork, size, and ability to read the field ARE what scouts pay attention to in order to weed out the busts. Considering the difficulty of adapting to the pro level and the relative unknown factors of all players, it is best to go with someone who has the basics down, rather than someone who might be able to do it.

Those are the cold hard facts. Players can play in the NFL without wowing the scouts (see Brady, Romo et. al) but in terms of draft position, that is the unfortunate reality.

Take Tony Romo for example. Romo's scouting report (while overall positive) stated that he needed a little work on his footwork, had some issues throwing the deep ball, and had quite a bit less experience under center... but it was overall outweighed by his exceptional mobility and smooth and fast throwing motion. He went freakin' undrafted because most teams want someone who can be exactly what they want on day one.

Regardless of how you feel about Tebow, he doesn't have what the scouts are looking for. He may have it one day. He may be very successful one day, even. But for the purposes of the draft, Tebow will be an over-reach in the 2nd round, and unlikely to start for quite some time.

Tim Tebow has a better chance of being a successful QB than Chan Gailey has of being a successful head coach (after multiple tries). I feel bad for all the Bills fans: Ralph Wilson may not be as bad as Big Gay Al in Oakland but he's mighty senile nonetheless.

Tebow has a shot in the NFL. Coming from a Seminole, I seriously hated that kid's guts in college but I hope he makes a decent QB in the pros. He may have had success at every level, but he still seems to have toughness and resiliency, the most important traits for NFLers. I believe anyone who works hard enough can do anything, and Tebow has shown himself adept at turning adversity into motivation. Throwing motion be damned, if he works on 3 to 5 step drops his accuracy will get better, and he will be a fit for any offensive system. He's a value pick at anything below the third round, for any team that is willing to develop him.

Dump TO, get Tebow? No.

House of Tards: Pope_of_Chilitown:
Does this seem like nitpicking? Our QB in high school had an ugly motion, almost never set his feet to throw, and led the conference in every passing category.

*facepalm*

Unless your high school quarterback was Pat White, you just disproved your own point.

How so? My high school QB was passed up by college scouts because of the way he played. The small school he ended up with won their conference both years he started there. My point was, scouts are idiots, sometimes intangibles are everything for a player.

Pope_of_Chilitown: House of Tards: Pope_of_Chilitown:
Does this seem like nitpicking? Our QB in high school had an ugly motion, almost never set his feet to throw, and led the conference in every passing category.

*facepalm*

Unless your high school quarterback was Pat White, you just disproved your own point.

How so? My high school QB was passed up by college scouts because of the way he played. The small school he ended up with won their conference both years he started there. My point was, scouts are idiots, sometimes intangibles are everything for a player.

You can't be serious.

Pope_of_Chilitown: House of Tards: Pope_of_Chilitown:
Does this seem like nitpicking? Our QB in high school had an ugly motion, almost never set his feet to throw, and led the conference in every passing category.

*facepalm*

Unless your high school quarterback was Pat White, you just disproved your own point.

How so? My high school QB was passed up by college scouts because of the way he played. The small school he ended up with won their conference both years he started there. My point was, scouts are idiots, sometimes intangibles are everything for a player.

Yeah, then what happened to him? Does his small school success mean that he would have been similarly successful at a bigger program?

Treygreen13: Pope_of_Chilitown: It's funny how so many arm-chair pundits and sports reporters make Tebow out to be a "system quaterback" who's skills ended in his last game in College and only his intangibles are worth anything. They guy has had success at every level so far, and monumental success to be sure. He was a State Champion in high school, essentially leading his team to state, won the Heisman and was nominated 3 times total, won 2 national championships and maybe the best college player of all time. "His throwing motion isn't NFL quality" ...neither was Bernie Kozars or lots of other players for that matter. "He doesn't plant his feet when he throws and he moves around too much" ....umm ever see a guy named Randall CUnningham or perhaps Fran Tarkenton? How is a mobile QB a bad thing? I know he ran the option in College, but if anyone was suited to run it in the pros, it's Tebow. I keep hearing how lineman and LBs will kill him in the pros if he runs, but do you really believe that will be the case every time when we are talking about 6'3 250 lbs? He may not be Ray Lewis' size, but I'll take those odds.

Seems like everyone is reaching to hate Tebow instead of what it's being portrayed to be, and thats man crushes reaching for something good. Everyone made a big stink about his Godliness, as if that ever mattered. It's funny that we used to rate players like Randy Moss as having "character issues" which we've all seen can turn out to be nothing but BS, and yet here we have a man of seemingly flawless character and we can't do anything but attack it? In a world of guys who won't sign autographs, selfish players, massive salaries, and guys taking plays off, having a Tebow on your NFL team seems like a no brainer. If nothing else he brings a great attitude, a willingness to sacrifice and play any position for the win, and he puts butts in the seats.

Seems like perhaps all those who hate Tebow don't like what reflection of themselves they seen when they look at him; young, athletic, sound minded, moral, charismatic, popular, rich, etc.

Tim Tebow is a shorter and nicer Ryan Leaf.

I don't think you'll find many people that questioned Ryan's arm strength or accuracy in college.

Pope_of_Chilitown: House of Tards: Pope_of_Chilitown:
Does this seem like nitpicking? Our QB in high school had an ugly motion, almost never set his feet to throw, and led the conference in every passing category.

*facepalm*

Unless your high school quarterback was Pat White, you just disproved your own point.

How so? My high school QB was passed up by college scouts because of the way he played. The small school he ended up with won their conference both years he started there. My point was, scouts are idiots, sometimes intangibles are everything for a player.

And where is he selling (washing?) cars today?

Pope_of_Chilitown:
How so? My high school QB was passed up by college scouts because of the way he played. The small school he ended up with won their conference both years he started there. My point was, scouts are idiots, sometimes intangibles are everything for a player.

Exactly. Athleticism and poor fundamentals will get you a lot of success in high school and in his case, a chance at a small school. This is because you can get by on sheer physical skull at that level. None of the big schools wanted to take a chance on your QB because they knew that they could find people who are equally athletic AND who have the fundamentals to boot.

Tebow has the running speed of a Tom Brady, the size of a Chris Cooley and the throwing arm of a Tra Thomas. That's not going to get scouts salivating. It gets them thinking about whether he can long snap.

Oh dear lord, please don't let Pete Carrol be the coach of a team with Tim Tebow. The media fellatio will certainly implode the universe.

puffy999

Alright then, not that i disbelieve you, whom do you work for and as what?

tebow, meh, even if he gets to the next level, there will always be Ryan Leaf.




hahahaha get over it

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Because some Farkers believe anything they read.

Yeah, like believing a fellow Farker actually works for the NFL in a capacity other than jock strap washer and/or mail delivery guy.

Heh.

Fundamental Thereom Of Farkulus: WhyteRaven74: Pope_of_Chilitown: I keep hearing how lineman and LBs will kill him in the pros if he runs, but do you really believe that will be the case every time when we are talking about 6'3 250 lbs?

He sucks at taking snaps under center. Most NFL plays involve the QB taking snaps from under center. And Cunningham could get the ball out of his hand in a hurry, which is essential if you want to run around. If you're a pocket QB you don't need to get the ball out of your hands that fast, unless of course the pocket collapse. But when you're on the move, you may not get time to set your feet and get the ball out. Which means if your throwing motion involves going way back and so on, you're screwed. You need to be able to just fling the ball out there.

Also size and arm strength aren't really much of anything to write home about, see JaMarcus Russell.

i agree about size and arm strength...but comparing tebow and russell is just...wrong.

Tebow is at least slightly accurate. :P Actually comparing anyone to Russell isn't right. Even the Round Mound of Touchdown was serviceable at times.

The_Six_Fingered_Man: puffy999: Pope_of_Chilitown: Sorry thats not me. I've quietly listened to this stuff for some time now, but in my experience PLAYING football, I know too many great players who were overlooked by colleges AND pros because of such "flaws" in their game. NFL scouts get blinders on, and thats why you see more guys like Leaf, Harrington, Carr, etc who fit that MOLD but can't actually play worth a damn. I know QBs who worked for years to change their stances, motions, and what not in hopes of attracting NFL or college scouts, and all it ended up doing was making them worse players because they betrayed the way in which they knew they could play. I think thats what your going to get out of some modified Tebow, flashes of what we know he can be, but ultimately a flawed QB who thinks things over too much.

I see what your saying but it seems silly to negate his accomplishments because others have had success and failed at the pro level.

I work for the NFL. So I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.

Some of you are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about. But trust me, you don't.

I think some of you are just trying to make yourself sound clever. This is how bad information gets passed around.

Don't try to make yourself sound like you know what you're talking about when you don't.

Because some Farkers believe anything they read.

Yeah, like believing a fellow Farker actually works for the NFL in a capacity other than jock strap washer and/or mail delivery guy.

Thanks, I was thinking the same thing. 'Don't believe THEM believe ME'

Pope_of_Chilitown: "His throwing motion isn't NFL quality"

The knock isn't on the way the motion looks, it's the *length of time* the motion takes, resulting in an incredibly slow delivery and turning his passes into easy pickins for S/DB.

puffy999: Pope_of_Chilitown: Sorry thats not me. I've quietly listened to this stuff for some time now, but in my experience PLAYING football, I know too many great players who were overlooked by colleges AND pros because of such "flaws" in their game. NFL scouts get blinders on, and thats why you see more guys like Leaf, Harrington, Carr, etc who fit that MOLD but can't actually play worth a damn. I know QBs who worked for years to change their stances, motions, and what not in hopes of attracting NFL or college scouts, and all it ended up doing was making them worse players because they betrayed the way in which they knew they could play. I think thats what your going to get out of some modified Tebow, flashes of what we know he can be, but ultimately a flawed QB who thinks things over too much.

I see what your saying but it seems silly to negate his accomplishments because others have had success and failed at the pro level.

I work for the NFL. So I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.

Some of you are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about. But trust me, you don't.

I think some of you are just trying to make yourself sound clever. This is how bad information gets passed around.

Don't try to make yourself sound like you know what you're talking about when you don't.

Because some Farkers believe anything they read.

Yeah I've known lots of folks who work for the NFL as well, and every single one of them was a football genius (hint:sarcasm). I have experience as a player and coach, not at any level higher than high school, but I take that as some experience, guess it's not as good as your insider knowledge, but while you might think you know what you're talking about, some of the folks at the levels below the NFL also know a few things about the game that was around long before the NFL was.

Tim doesn't need the NFL, not with what he's charging for autographs these days.

puffy999: I'll try to stick to TotalFark (or the tabs outside of sports) when pulling out common knowledge memes, and when mocking people who claim that their high school football experience makes them "educated" compared to those who work as professional scouts.

Depending on which team someone professionally scouts for is a key for determining if they have any clue what they're talking about. Or if management has any clue as to listen to employees they pay to know shiat.

I guess that means you might know what you're talking about, maybe.

SobrietyFighter: tebow, meh, even if he gets to the next level, there will always be Ryan Leaf.




I'm sorry, I just needed to see this again. Absolutely magnificent.

House of Tards: Pope_of_Chilitown:
How so? My high school QB was passed up by college scouts because of the way he played. The small school he ended up with won their conference both years he started there. My point was, scouts are idiots, sometimes intangibles are everything for a player.

Exactly. Athleticism and poor fundamentals will get you a lot of success in high school and in his case, a chance at a small school. This is because you can get by on sheer physical skull at that level. None of the big schools wanted to take a chance on your QB because they knew that they could find people who are equally athletic AND who have the fundamentals to boot.

Tebow has the running speed of a Tom Brady, the size of a Chris Cooley and the throwing arm of a Tra Thomas. That's not going to get scouts salivating. It gets them thinking about whether he can long snap.

I know you're being a little sarcastic, but you seem to be missing something. He is nothing close to an average athelete. He is an elite athlete. You don't find 6'3" 250 lbs (white)guys who run 4.7 40s, have over a 3' vertical(tied for highest among QBs), hit like Mac trucks, and are built like the rock of Gibralter every day. When the guy happens to also have been one of the most decorated, successful college QBs all time, then that is the reason you get a lot of talk. Plus you add his great attitude and tireless work ethic, and yet get some hype, regardless of his protypical "NFL form". Last time I checked Emmit Smith was too small and slow to be a rb too.