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(Marketwatch)   Greeks bend over in anticipation of the change about to be crammed up their Thermopylae   (marketwatch.com) divider line 107
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13234 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Mar 2010 at 6:38 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-03-03 04:26:52 AM
They've learned from the best in the west.
 
2010-03-03 07:04:24 AM
I'm sure Frank Miller is offended, yet enjoying the attention all the same.
 
2010-03-03 07:19:07 AM
Germany and France don't want to take over Greece's debts or bankroll them, and Greece is unwilling to cut domestic spending by the estimated 25% some have said would be necessary. Portugal, Italy and Spain are also having financial troubles, and combined with Greece may cause an economic split in Europe between the haves and the have-nots.
 
2010-03-03 07:22:47 AM
Romans > Spartans
 
2010-03-03 07:25:17 AM
Greeks taking it up the arse is news?
 
2010-03-03 07:32:43 AM
I'm flying to Athens Friday and am fully expecting to be stuck in Istanbul due to strikes closing the airport. The other concern is getting there and not being able to get home on time due to strikes closing the airport.

I'm thinking the "OMG, we're in bad debt, lets strike to protest" is not a happy thing. Nor does it make much sense.
 
2010-03-03 07:43:02 AM
Greeks get to retireat 62. Their country is incredibly corrupt. Reality has now caught up with them. Becoming an EU member gave them the idea they were on easy street from now on.
 
2010-03-03 07:48:01 AM
"The levels of our fiscal deficit, combined with the size of our national debt and also the lack of competitiveness, makes the Greek problem an explosive mixture," said Constantine Michalos, president of the Athens Chamber of Commerce and Industry.

Spray some Windex on it.
 
2010-03-03 07:49:28 AM
Bendal: Portugal, Italy and Spain are also having financial troubles, and combined with Greece may cause an economic split in Europe between the haves and the have-nots.

The Irish feel left out.

/why no love for the Irish?
 
2010-03-03 07:51:51 AM
"We're not Argentina."

Put that on a shirt.
 
2010-03-03 07:54:42 AM
Maybe if they got all that back rent on the Elgin Marbles they wouldn't have any financial problems.
 
2010-03-03 07:59:21 AM
We're not Argentina

What's the Greek equivalent for "Oh snap!"?
 
2010-03-03 07:59:48 AM
Another ass penny thread?
 
2010-03-03 08:01:37 AM
This will all be solved when PIIGS learn to fly on their own.
 
2010-03-03 08:15:18 AM
From TFA-
"Everyone had to learn terms they never knew, like housewives wondering where the spreads are,"

Well put, coming from Greece.. about time they learned.
 
2010-03-03 08:16:44 AM
HA-HA! Where's your Socialism now?

Greece is just the first of the Euro-Dominos to fall. For years we've had to listen to the MSM and the oh-so-sophisticated unber-intellectual types whine about how wonderful and advanced the European cradle to grave social support systems were, and how backward and barbaric America was because we didn't do the same.

As Ronald Reagan said "socialism's great until you run out of other people's money". None of these European social programs are sustainable. They're Ponzi schemes. They will fall. All of them.

And when they do, they won't have the money for the welfare payments to their Islamic immigrant communities, who will get angry and violent, and thus launch the great Euro-Islamic War in the 2015-2020 timeframe.

Exciting times ahead.
 
2010-03-03 08:18:15 AM
Bendal: Germany and France don't want to take over Greece's debts or bankroll them, and Greece is unwilling to cut domestic spending by the estimated 25% some have said would be necessary. Portugal, Italy and Spain are also having financial troubles, and combined with Greece may cause an economic split in Europe between the haves and the have-nots.

When I was living in the netherlands prior to the 2008 fallout, it was regularly on the news that PIGS were having problems and the ECB had to cut interest rates to help that situation, but Germany was doing well enough they had to raise rates. The end result is the ECB did nothing and now they are paying for it. While it wasnt just that, there was oh so much more, but that didnt help...

France is tied to Greece, which is tied to Germany which is tied to the US, so Greece failing can take down the EU and the US. Likewise, and Moody's just said that California is worse, if CA fails then it takes the US with it, and the EU is likely to fall in response. Economies are too interlinked on a global scale now.
 
2010-03-03 08:19:23 AM
schatzie: I'm flying to Athens Friday and am fully expecting to be stuck in Istanbul due to strikes closing the airport. The other concern is getting there and not being able to get home on time due to strikes closing the airport.

I'm thinking the "OMG, we're in bad debt, lets strike to protest" is not a happy thing. Nor does it make much sense.



Enjoy Istanbul! Its one of my favorite places. Take the ferry to the Princess Islands for the day.
 
2010-03-03 08:19:35 AM
kyleaugustus: Romans Spartans

lend me your rears
 
2010-03-03 08:43:19 AM
schatzie: I'm flying to Athens Friday and am fully expecting to be stuck in Istanbul due to strikes closing the airport. The other concern is getting there and not being able to get home on time due to strikes closing the airport.

Meh, you options bro. http://www.igougo.com/story-s1214696-Albania-Getting_to_Albania.html
Just hop on a bus for a 17-hour ride to Tirana, where you can grab a flight out.

You really haven't done Europe until you have taken a ride like that!
 
2010-03-03 08:44:47 AM
trixter_nl: Bendal: Germany and France don't want to take over Greece's debts or bankroll them, and Greece is unwilling to cut domestic spending by the estimated 25% some have said would be necessary. Portugal, Italy and Spain are also having financial troubles, and combined with Greece may cause an economic split in Europe between the haves and the have-nots.

When I was living in the netherlands prior to the 2008 fallout, it was regularly on the news that PIGS were having problems and the ECB had to cut interest rates to help that situation, but Germany was doing well enough they had to raise rates. The end result is the ECB did nothing and now they are paying for it. While it wasnt just that, there was oh so much more, but that didnt help...

France is tied to Greece, which is tied to Germany which is tied to the US, so Greece failing can take down the EU and the US. Likewise, and Moody's just said that California is worse, if CA fails then it takes the US with it, and the EU is likely to fall in response. Economies are too interlinked on a global scale now.


Never fear, a World War ought to pull us out of the coming Depression.
 
2010-03-03 08:45:55 AM
I'm just going to leave this here. It seems relevant.

i53.photobucket.com
 
2010-03-03 08:49:58 AM
Fano: Never fear, a World War ought to pull us out of the coming Depression.

Who's ass do we get to kick and who are our dancing partners? We tend to partner very well and kick some serious ass in world wars.
 
2010-03-03 08:54:24 AM
Terryg999: I'm hoping, in the not to distant future, to do a trip to Turkey, rather than just a layover (which might turn into a trip this time). Thanks for the tip on the Princess Islands, I will look into that.

RU_Rules: Having driven through the Alps too many times, and experiencing the wonderful nausea that comes from seeing Slovenia from the back seat of a small, non-descript car, I don't think I could survive a drive through the Balkans, in a bus. I've not the intestinal fortitude I had in my youth! But thanks for the link.
 
2010-03-03 08:58:30 AM
bongmiester: kyleaugustus: Romans Spartans

lend me your rears


*snert*
 
2010-03-03 08:59:41 AM
ronaprhys: Fano: Never fear, a World War ought to pull us out of the coming Depression.

Who's ass do we get to kick and who are our dancing partners? We tend to partner very well and kick some serious ass in world wars.



Our perennial sidekicks the British will come along, I'm sure. Who else depends on who we pick a fight with.
 
2010-03-03 08:59:52 AM
schatzie: Terryg999: I'm hoping, in the not to distant future, to do a trip to Turkey, rather than just a layover (which might turn into a trip this time). Thanks for the tip on the Princess Islands, I will look into that.

RU_Rules: Having driven through the Alps too many times, and experiencing the wonderful nausea that comes from seeing Slovenia from the back seat of a small, non-descript car, I don't think I could survive a drive through the Balkans, in a bus. I've not the intestinal fortitude I had in my youth! But thanks for the link.


Heh. I was in a taxi in Greece driving around some incredible hairpin bends up in the hills with no guard-rails. I commented on all the crosses and shrines at the corners and the driver leans back and says: "don't worry lady, they're only for locals."
 
2010-03-03 09:05:09 AM
Anodos: Bendal: Portugal, Italy and Spain are also having financial troubles, and combined with Greece may cause an economic split in Europe between the haves and the have-nots.

The Irish feel left out.

/why no love for the Irish?



Two words: Creative Labs

Two more words: Really Crappy Software and Crap Drivers

Two MORE words: Riverdance & Lord Of The Dance

/Guinesse and Bass are all that keep me from highlighting Ireland on my Map-o-Doom and hitting the delete key
 
2010-03-03 09:08:54 AM
God Is My Co-Pirate: That is frightenly familiar to my memories of Slovenia. Only it wasn't a cabbie, it was an in-law. Do in-laws and cabbies count as locals?
 
2010-03-03 09:09:57 AM
THIS... IS... SPARTA!!!!!!

By visiting Sparta, viewing, accessing or otherwise using any of the services or information created, collected, compiled or submitted to Sparta, you agree to be bound by the following Terms and Conditions of Service. If you do not want to be bound by our Terms your only option is not to visit, view or otherwise use the services of Sparta. You understand, agree and acknowledge that these Terms constitute a legally binding agreement between you and Sparta and that your use of Sparta shall indicate your conclusive acceptance of this agreement.
 
2010-03-03 09:25:33 AM
schatzie: I'm thinking the "OMG, we're in bad debt, lets strike to protest" is not a happy thing. Nor does it make much sense.

It does make sense if you have bodies to cripple the country and the political clout to force someone else to keep paying. This is a battle between public sector employees and public sector unions vs the rest of Greece. The investors are doing what investors will do
 
2010-03-03 09:33:41 AM
Yup, the EU is up the Greek without a paddle.
 
2010-03-03 09:36:11 AM
crazytrpr: schatzie: I'm thinking the "OMG, we're in bad debt, lets strike to protest" is not a happy thing. Nor does it make much sense.

It does make sense if you have bodies to cripple the country and the political clout to force someone else to keep paying. This is a battle between public sector employees and public sector unions vs the rest of Greece. The investors are doing what investors will do



Simple fix:

Split the euro debt into Euro-A and Euro-F.

Euro-A = German, French, Danish, etc debt
Euro-F = PIIGS debt

Diagrams

Euro-A works like this:
velvetpenguin.blog.friendster.com

Euro-F:
hbcprotocols.com
 
2010-03-03 09:36:26 AM
mark12A: As Ronald Reagan said "socialism's great until you run out of other people's money". None of these European social programs are sustainable. They're Ponzi schemes. They will fall. All of them

That has a nasty ring of truth to it, hope you and Ronny are wrong though as our Labour govt here in the Uk has been on a spending spree for the better part of a decade.
 
2010-03-03 09:36:45 AM
schatzie: I'm flying to Athens Friday and am fully expecting to be stuck in Istanbul due to strikes closing the airport. The other concern is getting there and not being able to get home on time due to strikes closing the airport.

I'm thinking the "OMG, we're in bad debt, lets strike to protest" is not a happy thing. Nor does it make much sense.


Oh, you poor thing. (Sarcasm.)
Seriously. Two words. "Covered Bazaar".
 
2010-03-03 09:36:49 AM
dracos31: Our perennial sidekicks the British will come along, I'm sure. Who else depends on who we pick a fight with.

That makes it somewhat difficult. In terms of folks out there that we'd want to fight with, we've really only got China, NK, and Iran. This puts us in the land war in Asia setting, which is never good. On the plus side, fighting with China could clean up a bunch of debt, which is always good. Of course, it's a damned expensive way to do so, but there you go. The fun part is that this war would be in China and not the US because they just don't have the ability to get to us. They could nuke the hell out of the surrounding area - but that's not the US (losing Japan and Taiwan would suck, though. All of our cheap electronics and reliable cars go away).

The fun part would be where does Russia come down? They've still got enough folks that fighting them is just not a good thing. But if they were to press down on China while we came in from the East or South, that might work.

France would probably sit out and wait for the lucrative rebuilding contracts afterwards. Germany's learned their lesson, so they'd stay neutral or fight with us.
 
2010-03-03 09:47:36 AM
If they want to reduce their debt, all they need to do is pass a trillion dollar healthcare bill that mandates coverage for all. Not only will that reduce their deficits but will lower all their premiums as well, or so i have been told.
 
2010-03-03 09:49:03 AM
bongmiester: kyleaugustus: Romans Spartans

lend me your rears


"I'm also your father..."

"That's disgusting!"

"That's Greek!"
 
2010-03-03 09:57:16 AM
ethics-gradient: mark12A: As Ronald Reagan said "socialism's great until you run out of other people's money". None of these European social programs are sustainable. They're Ponzi schemes. They will fall. All of them

That has a nasty ring of truth to it, hope you and Ronny are wrong though as our Labour govt here in the Uk has been on a spending spree for the better part of a decade.


Unfortunately the money always runs out. Much of European Socialism was paid for by exports to the US for decades especially in the 1980s. When Europe went to a common currency and that currency surpassed the dollar those exports were threatened, especially in the PIIGS countries.

Much of our standard of living is due to the fact that we are the reserve currency a holder over from WWII and the Bretton Woods accords. We've limped along on that legacy for 6 decades. Now that is running out of steam and the Chinese are playing mercantilism games. The money will "run out"

A new system is needed, like basket of reserve currencies they should float to even out trade imbalances. The majors to be included Yuan, Rupee, Euro, Dollar, Yen, the Real maybe, the Ruble maybe. China needs to play by big boy rules to join the club or be locked out.
 
2010-03-03 10:06:11 AM
crazytrpr:Unfortunately the money always runs out. Much of European Socialism was paid for by exports to the US for decades especially in the 1980s. When Europe went to a common currency and that currency surpassed the dollar those exports were threatened, especially in the PIIGS countries.

Much of our standard of living is due to the fact that we are the reserve currency a holder over from WWII and the Bretton Woods accords. We've limped along on that legacy for 6 decades. Now that is running out of steam and the Chinese are playing mercantilism games. The money will "run out"


Oh. Crap. I hope we can restart our manufacturing industry and learn to play "mercantilism games" or else we're buggered. This "playing by the rules" thing isn't working very well for Britain.
 
2010-03-03 10:25:35 AM
Phlem Pickens: They've learned from the best in the west.

Done in one

/this summer is going to be interesting
 
2010-03-03 10:25:58 AM
ethics-gradient: crazytrpr:Unfortunately the money always runs out. Much of European Socialism was paid for by exports to the US for decades especially in the 1980s. When Europe went to a common currency and that currency surpassed the dollar those exports were threatened, especially in the PIIGS countries.

Much of our standard of living is due to the fact that we are the reserve currency a holder over from WWII and the Bretton Woods accords. We've limped along on that legacy for 6 decades. Now that is running out of steam and the Chinese are playing mercantilism games. The money will "run out"

Oh. Crap. I hope we can restart our manufacturing industry and learn to play "mercantilism games" or else we're buggered. This "playing by the rules" thing isn't working very well for Britain.


The UK tried that it failed.

Unfortunately mercantilism is a zero sum game that eventually kills the golden goose. One side's economy collapses then so does the other as their cash reserves are now worthless. What good is those dollars and T-Bills to China if the US economy ranks below Argentina?

China tried the same thing back in the late 1700s and early 1800s. They were know as a silver sink back then when they barred all foreign imports but exported to anyone who had silver. Ultimately it lead to the opium wars to balance accounts.

Unless the goal is the destruction of the "enemy's" economy regardless of the cost to your own, mercantilism is at best a short term policy. A very addictive policy as you "export" unemployment and get hyper spectacular growth for a short while. Ultimately trade has to balance out.
 
2010-03-03 10:33:03 AM
mark12A: HA-HA! Where's your Socialism now?

Greece is just the first of the Euro-Dominos to fall. For years we've had to listen to the MSM and the oh-so-sophisticated unber-intellectual types whine about how wonderful and advanced the European cradle to grave social support systems were, and how backward and barbaric America was because we didn't do the same.

As Ronald Reagan said "socialism's great until you run out of other people's money". None of these European social programs are sustainable. They're Ponzi schemes. They will fall. All of them.


What crap! Greece is in the mess it's in because nobody there pays taxes and corruption is rife. They lied to the EU Commission about their budget understating their overspend by a factor of four. EU members are not there to bail out other members, indeed the Lisbon treaty makes this clear. Greece should never have been allowed to join the Euro. The only Socialism that's causing problems is that of Greece itself. Most governments in the EU are right-wing.
 
2010-03-03 10:46:19 AM
Oh. Crap. I hope we can restart our manufacturing industry and learn to play "mercantilism games" or else we're buggered.

As was pointed out before, Mercantilism is a beggar-thy-neighbor policy.

From China's perspective, however, they see how both Britain and America used it to spectacular success in the previous 250 years, and don't see why they shouldn't be able to do it as well. This also explains their reluctance to curb carbon emissions.

US & UK: Look, you need to adopt Free Trade and cap your emissions for the good of the world.
China: Why didn't you do those things a hundred years ago?
US & UK: Er....
China: Right. I'll get back to you after I lift several hundred million more of our people out of poverty. Then we can talk.
 
2010-03-03 10:50:04 AM
mark12A: HA-HA! Where's your Socialism now?

Greece is just the first of the Euro-Dominos to fall. For years we've had to listen to the MSM and the oh-so-sophisticated unber-intellectual types whine about how wonderful and advanced the European cradle to grave social support systems were, and how backward and barbaric America was because we didn't do the same.

As Ronald Reagan said "socialism's great until you run out of other people's money". None of these European social programs are sustainable. They're Ponzi schemes. They will fall. All of them.

And when they do, they won't have the money for the welfare payments to their Islamic immigrant communities, who will get angry and violent, and thus launch the great Euro-Islamic War in the 2015-2020 timeframe.

Exciting times ahead.



www.ismileyu.com
 
2010-03-03 10:50:20 AM
mark12A: HA-HA! Where's your Socialism now?

Socialism has never been tried as a governing principle. Not in Russia, not in China. Those were dictatorships that paid lip service to social values.

And whatever you think of Greece right now, it's pretty much the same road the U.S. is headed down.
 
2010-03-03 10:53:13 AM
kyleaugustus: Romans > Spartans

The Romans stole everything that made them Romans from the Greeks.

/a Greek told me this
 
2010-03-03 10:56:17 AM
Cubicle Jockey: Oh. Crap. I hope we can restart our manufacturing industry and learn to play "mercantilism games" or else we're buggered.

As was pointed out before, Mercantilism is a beggar-thy-neighbor policy.

From China's perspective, however, they see how both Britain and America used it to spectacular success in the previous 250 years, and don't see why they shouldn't be able to do it as well. This also explains their reluctance to curb carbon emissions.


With the amount of nationalism that exists in China, it wouldn't make any sense to me if they were not using these sorts of policies to increase their standing in the world, while aiming to keep the growth rate of their trade partners low to nonexistant to retain the value of their savings in T-bills.

Is this why there's so much complaining about the "artificially low" value of the yuan?
 
2010-03-03 10:59:45 AM
iollow:
Socialism has never been tried as a governing principle. Not in Russia, not in China. Those were dictatorships that paid lip service to social values.


Or maybe they are and socialism doesn't end up producing a classless society as Marx et al theorized and instead produces dictatorships not of the proletariat, but of the dictator as Henry George et al have threorized.
 
2010-03-03 11:06:03 AM
Cubicle Jockey: Oh. Crap. I hope we can restart our manufacturing industry and learn to play "mercantilism games" or else we're buggered.

As was pointed out before, Mercantilism is a beggar-thy-neighbor policy.

From China's perspective, however, they see how both Britain and America used it to spectacular success in the previous 250 years, and don't see why they shouldn't be able to do it as well. This also explains their reluctance to curb carbon emissions.

US & UK: Look, you need to adopt Free Trade and cap your emissions for the good of the world.
China: Why didn't you do those things a hundred years ago?
US & UK: Er....
China: Right. I'll get back to you after I lift several hundred million more of our people out of poverty. Then we can talk.


China is as guilty as the rest on Mercantilism, it lead to the Opium War with Britain and a whole host of humiliations during the 19th century.


Also the UK was the import market of choice until after WWI as and the world's reserve currency. They took the hit to their economy for until WWI broke them, then the US took over after WWII. Reserve currency = many jobs eventually leave the country because you a now automatically the highest cost producer

No morality has nothing to do with it. Nor does history. The question to ask is what good are pounds, Euro's dollars and those Tbills when we the UK, US and Europe would end up looking like Argentina? Its worse than a beggar they neighbor it's suicidal.

The only logical conclusion to their insistence to it, is the Chinese are idiots, afraid of revolt from those exporting sectors or they trying to destroy the US, UK and Europe's economy. Which is it?

In any case plenty of justification to hammer China WTO sanctions. Again they need to play be the big boy rules. The yuan cannot be artificially held 40% under valued in comparison to the dollar. A Bretton Woods died in 1967-69 but we have been living off inertia for the last 40+ years.
 
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