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19479 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Feb 2010 at 2:57 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-02-28 12:52:24 PM
Can coffee shops and bars get away with paying baristas and bartenders the waiter's wage?
 
2010-02-28 01:21:41 PM
If you can't afford to go out to eat, then maybe you should refrain from doing so.

Really.

Just as an aside, we slap on the gratuity because so many adults have proven beyond a doubt that there is at least one cheap bastiche in each group who will elect to be the guy or gal in the group to "handle" the bill, and then decide that it's "enough" and not contribute one iota, or underpay their share of the bill and let the tip soak up the cost of their portion of the bill.

If the public were better about that, we wouldn't have to do that. But, since in our experience that you can't handle that so well, we're going to play the odds and at least make sure that our waitstaff are covered.

You can campaign for an increase in the server's wage, but you are going to see costs rise at the table. It's not a matter of restauranteurs being "cheap." We generally weight our prices so that 30% of the cost of the meal covers the cost of the ingredients. 30% then covers staff. And another 30% is weighted towards covering the cost of the actual facilities--like mortgage, rent, utilities, parking, and the like. That leaves the folks running the joint maybe 10% for a profit. Maybe.

If we have to raise our labor cost, it's going to be reflected in your bill. Which is why meals in Europe wind up being a bit more pricey for what you get. You want that here? Fine, we'll do so, and then you'll kvetch about how much a meal costs. Which do you want? A tip, or a meal costing another 25 to 50% more?

Here's an idea: you don't like to tip, then don't go places where it's customary. Stiff your barista, hit Mickey D's. Vote with your wallet. But, consider that the service industry is becoming not just a major industry in this country, it's surpassing manufacturing. And those folks in turn support all sorts of OTHER industries. You tip, you are greasing the wheels of commerce, and that puts more cash in circulation. You can do this voluntarily, or you can mandate it for everyone. Which do you want? Mandatory, or the freedom to be a cheap bastiche, and called on it on occasion?

The cost of your cheapness is our scorn. You get what you pay for.
 
2010-02-28 01:31:08 PM
hubiestubert: Just as an aside, we slap on the gratuity because so many adults have proven beyond a doubt that there is at least one cheap bastiche in each group who will elect to be the guy or gal in the group to "handle" the bill, and then decide that it's "enough" and not contribute one iota, or underpay their share of the bill and let the tip soak up the cost of their portion of the bill.

If the public were better about that, we wouldn't have to do that. But, since in our experience that you can't handle that so well, we're going to play the odds and at least make sure that our waitstaff are covered.


But then it's no longer a gratuity, it's an added fee, much like a tax. That's why people complain about it.
 
2010-02-28 01:40:31 PM
hubiestubert: If we have to raise our labor cost, it's going to be reflected in your bill. Which is why meals in Europe wind up being a bit more pricey for what you get. You want that here? Fine, we'll do so, and then you'll kvetch about how much a meal costs. Which do you want? A tip, or a meal costing another 25 to 50% more?

I would rather the labor cost be included in the cost of my bill and not be expected to tip. Then everybody nobody can stiff the servers and nobody ends up feeling like they have to tip extra well to make up for the cheap tipper.

I also HATE getting bugged for tips. There is a coffee shop that I frequent to buy one cup of black coffee at $1.50. I give them my card (someone will biatch at me for doing that) and the cashier says loudly "you want to put a tip on that". Nope I don't. He had to turn around and fill a cup, that is it. Does he expect a quarter? Now I do go there and order food on occasion and when I do I leave a reasonable tip.

Bars are the same way. I buy a couple beers, be it draft or a bottle, how much do they expect? I just spent $5-10 for someone to pour a drink or maybe just pop a bottle cap off. How much do they think that deserves? If for some reason I ordered a complex mixed drink then I would tip better. Or if I got some food but I just don't see why I should be forking over my money for someone to open a bottle.

The whole problem with tips is that they are out of control. I only feel I need to tip for a job well done. and I don't think I should get bugged to tip for a $1.50 cup of coffee.

Again gratuity in the form of tips needs to go away. An establishment that expects its workers to make money in the form of tips should pay them a decent wage and charge me accordingly for the services.

/I have worked as a server
//that got long
 
2010-02-28 01:44:51 PM
Epsilon: hubiestubert: Just as an aside, we slap on the gratuity because so many adults have proven beyond a doubt that there is at least one cheap bastiche in each group who will elect to be the guy or gal in the group to "handle" the bill, and then decide that it's "enough" and not contribute one iota, or underpay their share of the bill and let the tip soak up the cost of their portion of the bill.

If the public were better about that, we wouldn't have to do that. But, since in our experience that you can't handle that so well, we're going to play the odds and at least make sure that our waitstaff are covered.

But then it's no longer a gratuity, it's an added fee, much like a tax. That's why people complain about it.


it's a tax one way or the other.

For some reason this country finds it acceptable to underpay service people: that is the fact. Tips make up for it but only if everyone plays the game.

It'd be better if we were honest and straight forward.

Service people should get an actual minimum wage paid by their employers who should pass that cost on to customers. If that is a $5 cup of black coffee, damn it -- so be it.

People should tip their conscience after that.

Until this shiat is fixed, however, play the farking game: tip your servers appropriately.
 
2010-02-28 01:48:04 PM
Epsilon: hubiestubert: Just as an aside, we slap on the gratuity because so many adults have proven beyond a doubt that there is at least one cheap bastiche in each group who will elect to be the guy or gal in the group to "handle" the bill, and then decide that it's "enough" and not contribute one iota, or underpay their share of the bill and let the tip soak up the cost of their portion of the bill.

If the public were better about that, we wouldn't have to do that. But, since in our experience that you can't handle that so well, we're going to play the odds and at least make sure that our waitstaff are covered.

But then it's no longer a gratuity, it's an added fee, much like a tax. That's why people complain about it.


Then perhaps we'd best invest in inculcating math skills, and invest in some gottverdammt education, as opposed to folks kvetching about paying for other peoples' kids' eduction too. You know, because only people with kids benefit from an educated populace...
 
2010-02-28 01:50:04 PM
joshthewaster: Bars are the same way. I buy a couple beers, be it draft or a bottle, how much do they expect? I just spent $5-10 for someone to pour a drink or maybe just pop a bottle cap off. How much do they think that deserves? If for some reason I ordered a complex mixed drink then I would tip better. Or if I got some food but I just don't see why I should be forking over my money for someone to open a bottle.

There is a little more to it than that.

You pay $5 for a $1 bottle of beer to be in social situation. The bartender is part of that but it isn't just the bartender making your night better, it's the guys cleaning up your spittle and piss in the bathrooms.

The bartender tips out all these people. If you don't like the game, don't play it: invite some people over to your house for bottles of beer you buy at the liquor store -- keep everyone happy and amused and clean the bathroom before they arrive and after they leave.
 
2010-02-28 01:53:38 PM
joshthewaster:
Bars are the same way. I buy a couple beers, be it draft or a bottle, how much do they expect? I just spent $5-10 for someone to pour a drink or maybe just pop a bottle cap off. How much do they think that deserves? If for some reason I ordered a complex mixed drink then I would tip better. Or if I got some food but I just don't see why I should be forking over my money for someone to open a bottle.


In bars, then don't tip. Please, don't.

And then wonder why four people are served before your cheap ass the next time you go up for a round...
 
2010-02-28 01:55:22 PM
joshthewaster: I just spent $5-10 for someone to pour a drink or maybe just pop a bottle cap off. How much do they think that deserves?

Maaaaaaaybe you should go to a package store, buy the ingredients and have a bunch of people over to your house. I bet that'd cost less than $5-10 per drink.

Here's an idea, why don't you take the two bottom racks out of your fridge and you can put a keg in there, that's even cheaper. And what's even better is the guys at the package store might even help you load it in your car without asking for a tip.

Cheap bastard.
 
2010-02-28 01:59:43 PM
Figured I'd get ripped on but wow. I DO tip I just don't think I should HAVE to tip.

keithgabryelski: Service people should get an actual minimum wage paid by their employers who should pass that cost on to customers. If that is a $5 cup of black coffee, damn it -- so be it.

This is fine with me. If that is what it takes to pay everyone in the bar/restaurant/coffee shop that's ok by me.
 
2010-02-28 02:03:23 PM
benlonghair: Cheap bastard.

See if I was such a cheap bastard I would have done those things already. I'm not (well as not as bad as I sound right now) I just think that there should be no tipping and the costs should be included in the price of my food or drinks.
 
2010-02-28 02:12:24 PM
What about the cooks? The waiter gets a tip for "speedy" service. You know why your food got to your table in such a rapid manner? It's because the cook made the food so quickly. Does he get tipped? Are the waitstaff hooking him up? No, of course not.

I worked as a cook for a summer, back in the "aughts." I had to deal with asshat waiters hounding me because I wouldn't send out raw chicken, unbaked pizza, or burgers with questionable levels of "done-ness." They didn't care if the customers got salmonella. They just wanted their orders done fast, so they could get better tips.

I tip when I eat out, and I tip well. But I think the cooks and dishers are just getting a rotten deal in all this.
 
2010-02-28 02:16:28 PM
You HAVE to tip the bartender. A good bartender is an artist...and I tip them very well. Hell, unless it's a special occasion we tend to eat at the bar as well. A great bartender makes you feel like you are his or her only customer even if he's in the weeds.
 
2010-02-28 02:18:36 PM
hubiestubert: If you can't afford to go out to eat, then maybe you should refrain from doing so.

Really.

Just as an aside, we slap on the gratuity because so many adults have proven beyond a doubt that there is at least one cheap bastiche in each group who will elect to be the guy or gal in the group to "handle" the bill, and then decide that it's "enough" and not contribute one iota, or underpay their share of the bill and let the tip soak up the cost of their portion of the bill.

If the public were better about that, we wouldn't have to do that. But, since in our experience that you can't handle that so well, we're going to play the odds and at least make sure that our waitstaff are covered.

You can campaign for an increase in the server's wage, but you are going to see costs rise at the table. It's not a matter of restauranteurs being "cheap." We generally weight our prices so that 30% of the cost of the meal covers the cost of the ingredients. 30% then covers staff. And another 30% is weighted towards covering the cost of the actual facilities--like mortgage, rent, utilities, parking, and the like. That leaves the folks running the joint maybe 10% for a profit. Maybe.

If we have to raise our labor cost, it's going to be reflected in your bill. Which is why meals in Europe wind up being a bit more pricey for what you get. You want that here? Fine, we'll do so, and then you'll kvetch about how much a meal costs. Which do you want? A tip, or a meal costing another 25 to 50% more?

Here's an idea: you don't like to tip, then don't go places where it's customary. Stiff your barista, hit Mickey D's. Vote with your wallet. But, consider that the service industry is becoming not just a major industry in this country, it's surpassing manufacturing. And those folks in turn support all sorts of OTHER industries. You tip, you are greasing the wheels of commerce, and that puts more cash in circulation. You can do this voluntarily, or you can mandate it for everyone. Which do you want? Mandatory, or the freedom to be a cheap bastiche, and called on it on occasion?

The cost of your cheapness is our scorn. You get what you pay for.


And evidently those who own such establishments aren't very good at math. You tack on a 20% gratuity to the bill in order to make sure your workers get the proper wages. If however you were to eliminate tips the extra cost would be 25-50%.

In my personal opinion most servers who biatch about not making enough money are crazy. Your job is an unskilled labor job. It takes no more skill than stuffing envelopes or loading boxes onto a truck. And yet if you were to wait on just 20 people per day, and each of those people were to tip you only $5 per day you would be making $100 in tips on top of your admittedly low pay. $100 is more than 90% of unskilled laborors make per day.

And lest you think I don't know what I'm talking about. There are two men who work at the same place I do. They both make around $14 per hour. Their wives are both waitresses at a couple middling quality restaurants, one of them a Denny's. And in both of their families the wife is considered the main income earner by a huge margin. It is her income that pays the bills and mortgage and property taxes. My coworkers income is just supplemental and mainly used to buy luxuries.

So no. Servers do not deserve to get a standard 20% or 15% or any standard percent. They deserve to get a tip based on how well they perform their job. If you are a pleasant person and do a good job you will get good tips the majority of the time.
 
2010-02-28 02:24:35 PM
Noah_Tall: So no. Servers do not deserve to get a standard 20% or 15% or any standard percent. They deserve to get a tip based on how well they perform their job.

I think it's a nomenclature issue. If it's compulsory, then it ceases to be "gratuity" by any definition of the word. According to the Princeton dictionary, a gratuity is "an award (as for meritorious service) given without claim or obligation." There is both claim and obligation if it becomes compulsory.

Therefore, the words "tip" and "gratuity" no longer apply. Let's call it what it is: A "service fee."
 
2010-02-28 02:27:10 PM
hubiestubert: If you can't afford to go out to eat, then maybe you should refrain from doing so.

Really.

Just as an aside, we slap on the gratuity because so many adults have proven beyond a doubt that there is at least one cheap bastiche in each group who will elect to be the guy or gal in the group to "handle" the bill, and then decide that it's "enough" and not contribute one iota, or underpay their share of the bill and let the tip soak up the cost of their portion of the bill.

If the public were better about that, we wouldn't have to do that. But, since in our experience that you can't handle that so well, we're going to play the odds and at least make sure that our waitstaff are covered.

You can campaign for an increase in the server's wage, but you are going to see costs rise at the table. It's not a matter of restauranteurs being "cheap." We generally weight our prices so that 30% of the cost of the meal covers the cost of the ingredients. 30% then covers staff. And another 30% is weighted towards covering the cost of the actual facilities--like mortgage, rent, utilities, parking, and the like. That leaves the folks running the joint maybe 10% for a profit. Maybe.

If we have to raise our labor cost, it's going to be reflected in your bill. Which is why meals in Europe wind up being a bit more pricey for what you get. You want that here? Fine, we'll do so, and then you'll kvetch about how much a meal costs. Which do you want? A tip, or a meal costing another 25 to 50% more?

Here's an idea: you don't like to tip, then don't go places where it's customary. Stiff your barista, hit Mickey D's. Vote with your wallet. But, consider that the service industry is becoming not just a major industry in this country, it's surpassing manufacturing. And those folks in turn support all sorts of OTHER industries. You tip, you are greasing the wheels of commerce, and that puts more cash in circulation. You can do this voluntarily, or you can mandate it for everyone. Which do you want? Mandatory, or the freedom to be a cheap bastiche, and called on it on occasion?

The cost of your cheapness is our scorn. You get what you pay for.


The scorn of a waiter or bartender means exactly zero to me. I tip 25% or more on average, but I AM IN NO WAY OBLIGATED TO PAY ANYTHING. Spit in my food, and go to jail.
 
2010-02-28 02:32:02 PM
bronyaur1:
The scorn of a waiter or bartender means exactly zero to me.


There-in lay the problem. They are your neighbors, family members, your fellow Americans -- and you have no empathy for them.
 
2010-02-28 02:32:37 PM
keithgabryelski: There-in lay the problem. They are your neighbors, family members, your fellow Americans -- and you have no empathy for them.

They have no empathy for the cooks, so there's that.
 
2010-02-28 02:38:06 PM
GreenAdder: keithgabryelski: There-in lay the problem. They are your neighbors, family members, your fellow Americans -- and you have no empathy for them.

They have no empathy for the cooks, so there's that.


WTF are you talking about?
 
2010-02-28 02:39:55 PM
keithgabryelski: GreenAdder: keithgabryelski: There-in lay the problem. They are your neighbors, family members, your fellow Americans -- and you have no empathy for them.

They have no empathy for the cooks, so there's that.

WTF are you talking about?


See above. The waiters harp on the cooks to get their stuff out faster. If the orders are out as rapidly as possible, the waiters get nice big tips. The cooks and dishers get jack.
 
2010-02-28 02:45:57 PM
keithgabryelski: bronyaur1:
The scorn of a waiter or bartender means exactly zero to me.

There-in lay the problem. They are your neighbors, family members, your fellow Americans -- and you have no empathy for them.


So fix the problem and pay them all a decent wage while charging whatever it takes.

Problem is, what restaurant wants to have to pay those costs? They like having the server have to struggle to make the money, it means they don't.

Someone doesn't tip, the restaurant doesn't lose anything. They charge what it actually takes to pay the wait staff, cheap people stop coming to the establishment and it loses money.

The bar/restaurant/coffee shop's owners or management are going to be the one to stand in the way.
 
2010-02-28 02:50:26 PM
GreenAdder:

See above. The waiters harp on the cooks to get their stuff out faster. If the orders are out as rapidly as possible, the waiters get nice big tips. The cooks and dishers get jack.


cooks get paid a regular wage. service does not.

there is the difference and why they get tips.

The servers aren't expected to tip you out as they aren't expected to tip out the general manager. That isn't them not caring about you -- that is how the money flows.

(btw, I've worked in a place where the chef tips out dishwashers and the chef gets tipped on catering events).

Any problem you've had with a server (as a cook) is between you-all
 
2010-02-28 02:58:30 PM
I think that anyone who is for tipping to be the way the service industry works either; just wants to brag about how great a tipper they are, is an overpaid service worker, or is a exploitive owner or manager.
 
2010-02-28 03:01:23 PM
christ, another tipping thread?
 
2010-02-28 03:01:30 PM
keithgabryelski: cooks get paid a regular wage. service does not.

This no longer washes when the waiters are making $200/night and the cooks are making $60. Who's doing the actual work?
 
2010-02-28 03:03:09 PM
pxlboy: christ, another tipping thread?

I know. Personally I think people should just leave the cows alone. That thing about cows an urban legend. They're perfectly capable of righting themselves after they've been tipped over. And once they do, they're going to be mighty angry ad the a-hole(s) who did it. Oh, and cows can run way faster than people.
 
2010-02-28 03:04:22 PM
pxlboy: christ, another tipping thread?

It's just like a politics thread, except the topic is orders of magnitude less important, and we don't have any politicians to call assholes.
 
2010-02-28 03:05:54 PM
David Sax, a journalist and the author of "Save the Deli" (Houghton Mifflin), lives in Park Slope and always tips 15 percent.

Sorry your "meager salary" only allows you to live in a shiatty neighborhood like Park Slope. If only your editor paid you that extra 500 bucks, you could move to the Upper West Side, where the people are so much prettier.
 
2010-02-28 03:08:24 PM
In all the nations of Europe, the service charge is factored in: 15% usually.

America is the only place in the world where waitpersons are dependent on the generosity of the customer.

I don't know how they do it in Canada.
 
2010-02-28 03:08:42 PM
hubiestubert: If you can't afford to go out to eat, then maybe you should refrain from doing so.

If you can't afford to work a job for the wage paid, then maybe you should refrain from doing so.

farm5.static.flickr.com

/Really
//I give excellent tips for excellent service
 
2010-02-28 03:09:12 PM
Wait until you read Frank Rich's column on Like a Virgin.
 
2010-02-28 03:09:43 PM
I love how this thread gets recycled every few months. As usual, here's my 2 cents.

1. If you don't tip, please stay home. Seriously, I tip; the last thing I need is some pissed off flunky giving me poor service because they are stewing over your cheapness.
2. If you have a job that is considered a tipped position, don't biatch. You WILL get stiffed from time to time. It's happened to the best of us. It happened before you came along and it will happen long after you move on. Let it go and quit your biatching. Also, from time to time, look inward. Maybe they didn't tip because of something you did or said. Usually they are just cheap jerks, but sometimes, it's you.
3. I'll bet that half of the servers who are on here biatching don't tip housekeepers at hotels, taxi drivers, doormen or anybody else. I think your shortsightedness is part of the reason you never got a better job.
4. Bartenders that give away free drinks to big tippers are STEALING from the company. The customer is still paying for the drink, but they are now paying the bartender, not the bar. A few bars/restaurants allow it to happen, but the bartenders ring the drinks to a house check that enables the business to keep a proper inventory. Giving a freebie to your best guests is smart business if done correctly. Your bartender is part of the reason that a lot of your regulars are there in the first place.
5. If employees are recruited, hired and trained correctly, they understand that higher check average and good service lead to big tips. Especially the higher check average part. Servers should not just be nice, they should constantly suggestive sell. This is one of many reasons that tips will never go away in restaurants. Payroll tax is another, but that is a different discussion.
6. With #5 in mind, the restaurant should be tipping out the staff as well. Sell a pasta entrée (or some other cash cow item), get a dollar (pasta is damn near free where food cost is concerned). The same should go for upsells on liquor and wine. Change the game, keep your staff engaged and make the payout public. Friendly competition and peer pressure go a long way in motivating your staff. Happy servers = happy customers.
7. If the guy behind the bar tonight mentions this article, I'm giving him a twenty and a year sponsorship.

/oh, and the "I paid $5 for a beer, why should I tip" guy. DIAF. The bar has overhead, you don't. The reason you pay $5 for a beer is because you can't get hot chicks to come to your house. Google "hubbart formula." It's how many restaurants and hotels figure out menu prices / rates, etc. You basically start with desired profit and work the equation backwards to suggest a retail price that will allow you to achieve said profit. It's a lot harder to use in restaurants because you have to know your sales mix and contribution margin of each item, but it's a pretty bullet proof way of figuring out if your on the right track where pricing is concerned. (well, you don't have to google it now, but you should a least know what the hell you are talking about.)

/no spell check - did not proof. please be nice grammar nazis
 
2010-02-28 03:09:48 PM
doctorbulldog.files.wordpress.com

See this? It's the worlds smallest violin playing just for the waitresses.
 
2010-02-28 03:11:05 PM
Mmm. A Sunday tipping thread. Wish I had some popcorn.
 
2010-02-28 03:11:31 PM
Mr. White: These people bust their ass. This is a hard job.
Mr. Pink: So is working at McDonalds, but you don't feel the need to tip them. Why not? They're still serving you food. But no, society says, don't tip these guys over here, but tip these guys over here. It's bullshiat!
 
2010-02-28 03:11:34 PM
Noah_Tall: So no. Servers do not deserve to get a standard 20% or 15% or any standard percent. They deserve to get a tip based on how well they perform their job. If you are a pleasant person and do a good job you will get good tips the majority of the time.

This mindset annoys the everliving shiat out of me. If you have any other job on Earth, you can mail it in some days and still expect to be paid the same rate. But not servers. If you want to be paid a living wage, you have to be perfect, each and every time. Which is horseshiat. If I'm suffering from a migraine, distracted due to to financial woes or fried because the kid was up crying all night, I have to take a paycut? While your cheap ass who 'just felt like mailing it in today' can come into work late, leave early, and spend the whole day browsing Fark? Right.

Servers are paid nothing. Everyone knows that. They usually get a zero paycheck. 20% isn't the 'wow, you did a good job, here's a tip' option, it's the 'I'm paying for the convenience of having someone bring me my food and drink' requirement. It's PAYMENT for services rendered, and not giving that amounts to theft, IMHO. A TIP isn't paying someone for their job, it's showing appreciation for a job well done.

Ergo, if I go out to eat, I automatically add 20%, save in instances of extreme negligence or extraordinarily poor service. That's PAYING the server for my service, the same as I PAY the restaurant for it's food. If the serve does an excellent job, I up it to 25% or 30%. That's TIPPING. The 20% is PAYING for my service, and if I don't give that I'm just taking advantage of someone less well off, which puts me about on a moral par with a clothing manufacturer who uses 3rd world child labor because it's cheaper.

/no longer a server, thank God
//did it for way too farking long in undergrad and grad school
 
2010-02-28 03:11:43 PM
What a bunch of Self indulgent, vitriolic garbage. This is the exact kind of guy that sits in a restaurant for hours reading a book and drinking free coffee refills that leaves 50 cents and walks away feeling proud of himself.

Pro-tip: being a cheap douche-bag and acting all high and mighty about it doesn't earn you better service.
 
2010-02-28 03:11:47 PM
joshthewaster: I think that anyone who is for tipping to be the way the service industry works either; just wants to brag about how great a tipper they are, is an overpaid service worker, or is a exploitive owner or manager.

I don't see anyone advocating for this mechanism -- just advocating that people abide by it because it is currently how things work and kicking against the pricks, in this case, means shorting someone who is underpaid.

The only, reasonable, argument I have heard for keeping the current mechanism is that it is optimized to put money in the server's hand. If you tip $1 the server gets all that tip (minus any amount they tip out).

If your bill was $1 more expensive to pay for wages it would go through the business and their taxes.

The argument doesn't sway me.

An alternative argument (that I don't think is reasonable) is that people will tip less if servers get a living wage and thus servers will, in general, get less tips and be paid (overall) less.

That reeks of magical thinking and an appeal to not make waves or we'll suffer the consequences.
 
2010-02-28 03:11:58 PM
HectorSchwartz: /no spell check - did not proof. please be nice grammar nazis

So you just cut and paste your same old response every time a tipping thread arises? What the fark good are you?
 
2010-02-28 03:12:45 PM

pxlboy


christ, another tipping thread?


Yeah, when there are five tipping threads in a group the management adds another 20% automatically.
 
2010-02-28 03:12:56 PM
texastag: hubiestubert: If you can't afford to go out to eat, then maybe you should refrain from doing so.

If you can't afford to work a job for the wage paid, then maybe you should refrain from doing so.



/Really
//I give excellent tips for excellent service


This. JFC, like waiting or bartending is hard in the first place.
 
2010-02-28 03:12:59 PM
hubiestubert: If you can't afford to go out to eat, then maybe you should refrain from doing so.

In my experience, people's refusal to tip has nothing to do with an inability to pay. For the most part, working-class patrons tip well.
 
2010-02-28 03:13:07 PM
whistleridge: This mindset annoys the everliving shiat out of me. If you have any other job on Earth, you can mail it in some days and still expect to be paid the same rate. But not servers. If you want to be paid a living wage, you have to be perfect, each and every time. Which is horseshiat. If I'm suffering from a migraine, distracted due to to financial woes or fried because the kid was up crying all night, I have to take a paycut? While your cheap ass who 'just felt like mailing it in today' can come into work late, leave early, and spend the whole day browsing Fark? Right.

Why are your crotch-spawn my problem? If you can't do your job, then find new work. This doesn't seem hard.
 
2010-02-28 03:13:37 PM
toy-faire.com

Come on you cheap bastard cough up your buck like everybody else. I paid for your goddamn breakfast.

Never mind what you normally would do!
 
2010-02-28 03:14:53 PM
Well, im uplifted.

/off to bartend
 
2010-02-28 03:15:59 PM
GreenAdder: keithgabryelski: cooks get paid a regular wage. service does not.

This no longer washes when the waiters are making $200/night and the cooks are making $60. Who's doing the actual work?


You just want a piece of the pie that, historically, has been used to offset the difference between everyone-else and servers. Now, the grass is greener and you're looking for some tithe -- make an agreement within the business to compensate in this new way or get over it (or, i guess, biatch about it on the intarwebs).

Sorry man, it's just not how its been done.
 
2010-02-28 03:15:59 PM
RockofAges: <b><a target="_blank" href="http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=5063798&IDComment=58548952#c585 48952">olddinosaur</a>:</b> <i>In all the nations of Europe, the service charge is factored in: 15% usually.

America is the only place in the world where waitpersons are dependent on the generosity of the customer.

I don't know how they do it in Canada.</i>


FAIL
 
2010-02-28 03:17:10 PM
HectorSchwartz: I love how this thread gets recycled every few months. As usual, here's my 2 cents.

1. If you don't tip, please stay home. Seriously, I tip; the last thing I need is some pissed off flunky giving me poor service because they are stewing over your cheapness.
2. If you have a job that is considered a tipped position, don't biatch. You WILL get stiffed from time to time. It's happened to the best of us. It happened before you came along and it will happen long after you move on. Let it go and quit your biatching. Also, from time to time, look inward. Maybe they didn't tip because of something you did or said. Usually they are just cheap jerks, but sometimes, it's you.
3. I'll bet that half of the servers who are on here biatching don't tip housekeepers at hotels, taxi drivers, doormen or anybody else. I think your shortsightedness is part of the reason you never got a better job.
4. Bartenders that give away free drinks to big tippers are STEALING from the company. The customer is still paying for the drink, but they are now paying the bartender, not the bar. A few bars/restaurants allow it to happen, but the bartenders ring the drinks to a house check that enables the business to keep a proper inventory. Giving a freebie to your best guests is smart business if done correctly. Your bartender is part of the reason that a lot of your regulars are there in the first place.
5. If employees are recruited, hired and trained correctly, they understand that higher check average and good service lead to big tips. Especially the higher check average part. Servers should not just be nice, they should constantly suggestive sell. This is one of many reasons that tips will never go away in restaurants. Payroll tax is another, but that is a different discussion.
6. With #5 in mind, the restaurant should be tipping out the staff as well. Sell a pasta entrée (or some other cash cow item), get a dollar (pasta is damn near free where food cost is concerned). The same should go for upsells on liquor and wine. Change the game, keep your staff engaged and make the payout public. Friendly competition and peer pressure go a long way in motivating your staff. Happy servers = happy customers.
7. If the guy behind the bar tonight mentions this article, I'm giving him a twenty and a year sponsorship.

/oh, and the "I paid $5 for a beer, why should I tip" guy. DIAF. The bar has overhead, you don't. The reason you pay $5 for a beer is because you can't get hot chicks to come to your house. Google "hubbart formula." It's how many restaurants and hotels figure out menu prices / rates, etc. You basically start with desired profit and work the equation backwards to suggest a retail price that will allow you to achieve said profit. It's a lot harder to use in restaurants because you have to know your sales mix and contribution margin of each item, but it's a pretty bullet proof way of figuring out if your on the right track where pricing is concerned. (well, you don't have to google it now, but you should a least know what the hell you are talking about.)

/no spell check - did not proof. please be nice grammar nazis


This X 1000. The bar gives you social networking situation because you can only seem to pick up chicks when you're drunk and in public. I'm a bouncer that gets paid hourly and I see the pathetic troggs -that feel entitled to getting to talk to chicks while they drink- screw our servers on a daily basis totally built on the price of their expensive imported beer. If you want to be a cheap ass, then drink draft. Our bar has domestic 32 oz. beers for 3 bucks. If you can't afford that without tipping, then stay at home, drink your natty, and cat call at the women that walk by.
 
2010-02-28 03:17:17 PM
texastag: hubiestubert: If you can't afford to go out to eat, then maybe you should refrain from doing so.

If you can't afford to work a job for the wage paid, then maybe you should refrain from doing so.


Yes, only rich people should work.
 
2010-02-28 03:17:36 PM
keithgabryelski: bronyaur1:
The scorn of a waiter or bartender means exactly zero to me.

There-in lay the problem. They are your neighbors, family members, your fellow Americans -- and you have no empathy for them.


I have no empathy for whiny entitled people, no.

I waited tables while I was in college, and tend to tip well for average to good service. Moreover, I go out of my way to be polite to these wait staff. However, I tip like crap for crap service from whiny entitled wait staff, and absolutely do not care if they don't like it.
 
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