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(Chicago Breaking News)   You HAD a right to remain silent   (chicagotribune.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, Justice Antonin Scalia, supreme court ruling, web designers, state prisons  
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48442 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Feb 2010 at 5:16 PM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-02-24 05:27:52 PM  
Rare Miranda trifecta in play.
 
2010-02-24 05:29:23 PM  

FIF!

 
2010-02-24 05:29:50 PM  
So there's a unanimous SCOTUS decision and it's Scalia that's the dick? Interesting.

I'm inclined to think that if you get all nine Justices to agree on something people should pause a bit to figure out why.
 
2010-02-24 05:29:58 PM  

downstairs: I understand the concept of "don't talk to cops"... but I think there's a slightly more varied reality out there.

By not talking to cops, you're ASKING them to do everything they can in their power to arrest you. Where often times being polite and somewhat open (not admiting a crime) will cause them to just let you go on their way to deal with more important things.

I have a hard time beliving a cop who pulled you over for something minor, after you give the immediate "am I under arrest or free to go?" deal... isn't going to try their hardest to find a reason to arrest you.

I've been caught speeding many times, even gave the old "I don't know how fast I was going, sorry, I may have been a bit over the speed limit"... and gotten off with no ticket. Many times.


Good for you. You've been lucky then. I have also been pulled over for, "Almost running that stoplight." I never admitted guilt and only asked for clarification on what "almost" meant and if "almost" breaking the law was justification for being pulled over.

I didn't answer any questions about why I was out at night, why I thought I was pulled over (It's a Trap!), or what color I like most.

Shut. The. Fark. Up. Period.

Being "open" is just providing evidence. If the cop asks to search your car, do you say "yes" because you think you have nothing to hide? No! You say, "I do not consent to any searches at this time." If the cop has to ask then he has no probable cause - if he did have probable cause then he wouldn't be asking, he'd just do it.

That being said, if a cop wants to break the law and perform an illegal search or some other questionable activity - LET HIM! File a complaint later, but if you argue you're just going to get Tased and thrown to the ground.
 
2010-02-24 05:30:32 PM  

real shaman: Shilldog: So you get pulled over for 70 in a 65, and demand a lawyer? You're an asshole. If not, you're an idiot.

No, you don't talk to the cop. He didn't say to demand your lawyer. You hand him your license, registration and insurance card. There is no conversation required.


I think it also may just boil down to "Don't give up your fifth amendment right."

If I am pulled over for speeding, I will talk to the police if I'm pulled over for a minor infraction, but I will never admit to any wrong doing. If they ask if you know what you did, you say you don't. I won't lie or contradict them, that just makes things worse. I greet them with a smile, I call them sir, ma'am, or just officer; and I play dumb with everything.

But that's for a simple moving violation. If you even get the faintest hint that you are a suspect that could be arrested, clam up.
 
2010-02-24 05:30:49 PM  



img39.imageshack.us

RIP Mylanta

 
2010-02-24 05:32:12 PM  

lexnaturalis: So there's a unanimous SCOTUS decision and it's Scalia that's the dick? Interesting.


Well, he is a dick. It's just not very relevant to this particular case.

/surprised there haven't been any "get rid of Miranda, it helps the criminals/terrorits/libs" trolls yet.
 
2010-02-24 05:32:22 PM  

006andahalf: Y'all are worried about DUI checkpoints? Heck in my town they have (ostensible) drivers license checkpoints where they can hit you with whatever the heck they want. Luckily I'm fairly pale so they don't give me too much guff. Anyone swarthy and darker get it real good from them. But it's all for your protection.


We have brake tag inspections. (Brake tags down here are basically a $50 tax and you get a nifty little sticker to show you paid it).

I've gone through the inspection with no tag. Told the officer I was sorry, that I just moved here. He asked how long ago. I said... well, a year ago.

He let me go along my way.

The checkpoint was CLEARLY not there to inspect brake tags.
 
2010-02-24 05:33:30 PM  

006andahalf: surprised there haven't been any "get rid of Miranda, it helps the criminals/terrorits/libs" trolls yet.


I'm embarrassed to admit that I used to believe that. Then I graduated High School.
 
2010-02-24 05:33:33 PM  

slayer199: Just to be clear...you never have to talk to the police...ever.

If they start questioning you, you only have to ask if you're under arrest...which gives them a right to detain you...but you STILL do not have to talk. Even with an attorney present, you don't need to talk.

/former cop


That's what I don't understand on COPS. Everyone just talks to the police.

"May we search you?"
"Sure"
"What's this?"
"Oh that's my crack."
"And what were you doing out here tonight?"
"Hooking."

The better way to handle that would be

"May we search you?"
"No"
"Why not?"
"Have a nice night officer" *walk off*
 
2010-02-24 05:33:39 PM  
Farking Scalia again! It's like all his decisions are influenced by Law and Order SVU.
 
2010-02-24 05:34:02 PM  
i111.photobucket.com

We finally really did it... You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!

/hl'ed
 
2010-02-24 05:34:50 PM  
I do not find this scary at all.

You just to remain silent.

They go away for two weeks.

They ask again.

You again choose to remain silent.

I personally find this ruling very reasonable.
 
2010-02-24 05:35:23 PM  
And let me guess: It's all Obama's fault.
 
2010-02-24 05:36:03 PM  

El Chode: NewportBarGuy: El Chode: DUI checkpoints

I still can't believe those are constitutional.

I'm sitting in a class right now discussing just how constitutional they are...which is partially why I'm so worked up as it is. Stevens is the only rational voice on the issue, and he's set to depart.


The police are now blocking the side street near my house to make their "Five O' Clock Free Ticket Giveaway" easier to perform. They apparently didn't want people who park on that street getting in the way of the up to four police cars with up to a car apiece pulled over in that one-block area.

That's right; they are closing a public street from use by the residents so as to make their speed trap more convenient. While I don't mind the reduction in speeding through my neighborhood, I'm a little concerned about the number of people who have been arrested during these traffic stops. Maybe I should be grateful that all these people with warrants are being arrested?
 
2010-02-24 05:36:42 PM  
Nothing to see here... 14 days and you must freely speak to the authorities... move along
 
2010-02-24 05:36:52 PM  
Snitches get stitches and end up in ditches.
 
2010-02-24 05:37:05 PM  

i139.photobucket.com
RIP Miranda

 
2010-02-24 05:37:12 PM  

Ashtrey: That's what I don't understand on COPS. Everyone just talks to the police.

"May we search you?"
"Sure"
"What's this?"
"Oh that's my crack."
"And what were you doing out here tonight?"
"Hooking."

The better way to handle that would be

"May we search you?"
"No"
"Why not?"
"Have a nice night officer" *walk off*


Ok, all well and good. So you're just biding time before the cop goes and gets a warrant and searches you anyway.

Lets say you DO have drugs on you or in your car.

Do you think the cop is just going to let you go on your way because you said "no"?

You realize with a warrant, that gives them the right to search you and your card without your consent.

Not trying to argue, I'm interested in the subject... but it doesn't sound like this "don't talk to cops" advice is going to get you out of shiat.
 
2010-02-24 05:37:29 PM  

GaryPDX: Iyou are immediately a suspect in that crime.


"Officer, I was raped!"

"Well well well, looks like we have a clear case of masturbation!"
 
2010-02-24 05:37:51 PM  
This is a very rational, reasonable standard.

Still, when in doubt, talk to the police, be 100% truthful, and it will all work out in the end.

/hides chuckling
 
2010-02-24 05:38:16 PM  

Fark Me To Tears: dahmers love zombie: Interesting. Scalia believes that the SCOTUS shouldn't have "invented" the trimester rule that Roe v. Wade was based on. Yet he thinks they can just pull "14 days" out of their assholes?

My God that man is a dick.

Don't forget about Scalia's appearance on 60 Minutes not too long ago where he said that brutality/torture was okay to get information from a suspect, but not to punish him.

/yes, he said that
//on 60 Minutes


He basically acknowleged that we do it and there's nothing he can do about it, even if he wanted to. Scalia is nothing if not pragmatic.

\Still wonder why they gave this to Scalia to write. They usually give the easy shiat (and 9-0 is basically the definition of easy) to Thomas or Kennedy.
 
2010-02-24 05:38:39 PM  

intotheblu.com
R.I.P Miranda

 
2010-02-24 05:38:40 PM  
I MAY still have the right to remain silent, but I find I rarely have the ability.
 
2010-02-24 05:38:52 PM  

tnpir:
Plus, notably, this was a 9-0 decision.


USA Today says it was 7-2 with Thomas and Stevens dissenting.

Link (new window)
 
2010-02-24 05:39:10 PM  
So the cops can continue to question me after I've requested counsel, but not until 14 days later?

BFD.
 
2010-02-24 05:39:38 PM  

whidbey: And let me guess: It's all Obama's fault.


now that you mention it...
 
2010-02-24 05:40:09 PM  
It is interesting to note that this was a 9-0 ruling. With both extreme right & left wing judges agreeing is this a sign of the end times?
 
2010-02-24 05:40:50 PM  
 
2010-02-24 05:41:03 PM  
Repeat after me: "Am I under arrest? Am I free to go?". This is the only thing you should ever say to a cop.
 
2010-02-24 05:41:05 PM  

GaryPDX: I have heard from several police I know that if you see a crime and report it, you are immediately a suspect in that crime. It's standard operating procedure. Never talk to police without legal council, ever.


See, that's going too far. I live near some pretty high-crime areas. People who aren't committing those crimes NEED to be part of the solution and work with the cops.

Maybe its different by you, but I want more cops in my neighborhood, and I want them talking to me more.
 
2010-02-24 05:41:14 PM  

downstairs: The checkpoint was CLEARLY not there to inspect brake tags.


Brake tags? Are those to certify that your brakes work?

I was driving some Navy friends back to NAS North Island and there's only one (feasible) way back onto Coronado, so you better believe they have a DUI spot there. Anyway, I was driving and everyone except me in the car was black. Boy did the cop's eyes light up when he saw us coming. Special zone for a bit of a talk and everything.
 
2010-02-24 05:41:41 PM  

Ashtrey: GaryPDX: Iyou are immediately a suspect in that crime.

"Officer, I was raped!"

"Well well well, looks like we have a clear case of masturbation!"


You've mixed that up. You took a victim's angle. I was talking about a witness angle.
 
2010-02-24 05:41:42 PM  
If pulled over the first thing the cop always says is, "Do you know why I pulled you over?"

Don't answer this question, it's like responding to "So, have you stopped beating your wife?" It's fishing for a conviction or proof of guilt. If you say you were speeding you just gave up any hope of fighting a ticket in court. If you say "No" then you just admitted to having no idea what is going on around you.

"Why did you pull me over, Officer?" is my response.

Never answer questions, deflect them, remain silent, or respond with a question. If the cop asks, "Are there any weapons in the car I should be aware of?" say, "Not to my knowledge." Never say anything as a fact. If you are shown to be wrong (lying) about something you believe is true it's just as bad as intentionally lying to the cop. Your friend's pocket knife fell out and rolled under the seat and you didn't notice it. You just lied to a cop. "Not to my knowledge" is something they can't hold against you because they then have to prove your prior knowledge to make you a liar.

Don't engage in conversation.
Treat the cop with the upmost respect even if he's a raging asshole.
Announce any movements you are about to make, "My registration is in my glove box, let me get it for you."
I'm a concealed firearms permit holder, the first thing I do at a traffic stop is hand the officer my driver's license and CFP card while saying, "So you are aware, sir, I am carrying my pistol today."
Hands on the wheel, if at night turn on the map light so there are no shadows in the car (he will have his spot light on you anyway).

If on a motorcycle:
Pull over, turn off bike, put kickstand down, take off gloves and open helmet visor.
I wait until the cop approaches to take my helmet off - if you wear a full-face helmet you will have to take it off so the cop can see your face.
If I have my pistol in my tank bag, I inform the officer that I am armed and where it is located - hand over both my IDs.
Same conversation rules apply as above.

But hey, that's me. If you want to tell the cop you were speeding through that red light because you just left the crack house and really need a fix, go right ahead.
 
2010-02-24 05:41:44 PM  

downstairs: So you're just biding time before the cop goes and gets a warrant and searches you anyway.


What would they use to get that warrant? An officer can't get a warrant based upon a hunch.
 
2010-02-24 05:41:51 PM  

downstairs:
Ok, all well and good. So you're just biding time before the cop goes and gets a warrant and searches you anyway.

Lets say you DO have drugs on you or in your car.

Do you think the cop is just going to let you go on your way because you said "no"?

You realize with a warrant, that gives them the right to search you and your card without your consent.

Not trying to argue, I'm interested in the subject... but it doesn't sound like this "don't talk to cops" advice is going to get you out of shiat.


I'm talking about the people on COPS. 9 times out of 10 they look shady as hell, and sure they are up to something illegal. But they usually don't do anything that seems like it would fit probable cause for a warrant, or reason for an arrest prior to a search.

They just look shady so the police go fishing and these people are dumb enough to go right along with it.
 
2010-02-24 05:42:05 PM  
You still have a right to remain silent, even 14 days later. If you talk to them then you're an idiot. Let your lawyer do the talking, say nothing. Ever.
 
2010-02-24 05:42:18 PM  

Jimmy Devil Rocket Science: As someone who is friends with a few cops, I really hate admitting that all of the people on the "never talk to the police" bandwagon are correct, but only because they're generally nice people and I hate to see their jobs get even more difficult than it already is.


As a cop, I don't believe you should feel guilty for your opinion.

Being aware of your rights is a good thing and should be encouraged. In my experience, people who tend to commit crimes also tend not to be sensible enough to keep their yap shut.

As I said in another thread today, I can still do my job well without someone stupidly incriminating themselves.
 
2010-02-24 05:42:20 PM  
One must remain silent longer.
 
2010-02-24 05:42:46 PM  

tnpir: This doesn't strike me as a wholly unreasonable ruling. If you go free, then two weeks later agree to talk, they SHOULD be able to use that against you. There is nothing stopping you from refusing to speak without a lawyer present at that time, either. I haven't read the entire opinion yet, however, so I might have to alter that thought at some point.

Plus, notably, this was a 9-0 decision.


The example from the article was the conviction of a pedo being thrown out because he'd admitted it two and a half years later but successfully argued in court that he was still mirandad.
 
2010-02-24 05:43:08 PM  

Blind_Io: If the cop asks, "Are there any weapons in the car I should be aware of?" say, "Not to my knowledge."


"No" works just fine, because even if there is a gun in the car the cop shouldn't be aware of it.

//At least in Pennsylvania
 
2010-02-24 05:43:08 PM  
If only there were an organization that could assist people who were being unlawfully detained or questioned.

They'd probably just be labelled as communist and dismissed.
 
2010-02-24 05:43:36 PM  
Isn't this a repeat from last night?
 
2010-02-24 05:43:56 PM  

006andahalf: Brake tags? Are those to certify that your brakes work?


Uhhhhh, sure. Well, I mean, you take it to a certified garage, tell them your shiat works, show them your lights work, pay $50, and get your sticker. They don't actually CHECK your brakes if that's what you mean.

Its an easy tax, and an easier way to pull people* over.

*Whites excluded
 
2010-02-24 05:44:04 PM  
It is interesting to note that this was a 9-0 ruling. With both extreme right & left wing judges agreeing is this a sign of the end times?

It happens all the time. Usually you don't hear about it, because the cases they vote unanimously on tend to be boring, but 9-0 is actually the second most common breakdown (5-4 being the most common).
 
2010-02-24 05:44:58 PM  
Ernesto Miranda's not talking, either;
Link (new window)

The last word on chatting with the Po-Po;
Link (new window)
 
2010-02-24 05:45:05 PM  

El Chode: Weaver95: Shilldog: Weaver95: NewportBarGuy: never talk to a cop without a lawyer present. Period. or at least consult a lawyer first.

Honest question: How far do you take this? Speeding tickets? Just walking by?

anything more serious than a speeding ticket.

Huh? I never say anything, even in a ticket. Nothing of substance at least, I just do my best to be amenable, polite, and friendly...and dumb. If they ask me questions, I just smile. I find this to be the best approach at DUI checkpoints also because my blood is usually curdling by that point and I know I'd say something with enough anger that they'd search me just out of spite.


This is the key. The problem with traffic stops, aside from consenting to a search, is inadverdently making a statement that could be construed as an admission of guilt. For example, when asked "Do you know why I pulled you over?" ALWAYS say "no."
 
2010-02-24 05:45:08 PM  

GaryPDX: Ashtrey: GaryPDX: Iyou are immediately a suspect in that crime.

"Officer, I was raped!"

"Well well well, looks like we have a clear case of masturbation!"

You've mixed that up. You took a victim's angle. I was talking about a witness angle.


"I saw a man peeping in a woman's window and fondling himself!"

"Well well well, looks like we have a clear case of masturbation!"

/that better?
 
2010-02-24 05:45:11 PM  

Fish!: Repeat after me: "Am I under arrest? Am I free to go?". This is the only thing you should ever say to a cop.


That and, thank you sir.
 
2010-02-24 05:45:17 PM  
ITFA Scalia mentions the large number of repeat offenders we supposedly have in this country as a justification for this ruling. Well, that is when I have to begin to question how many people are being labeled "offender" and why we have so many.

It really ought to trouble more people than it does. Why do we have such a disproportionately large prison population? Why do we have such wildly out of proportion sentences for so many things and increasing demand for measures against people who have already served their sentence?

Never talk to cops. Never cooperate. Ever. You owe more to yourself and the only life you will ever have than you do to the state. Period.
 
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