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(Chicago Breaking News)   You HAD a right to remain silent   (chicagotribune.com) divider line 394
    More: Scary, Justice Antonin Scalia, supreme court ruling, web designers, state prisons  
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48430 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Feb 2010 at 5:16 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-02-24 07:38:21 PM
"...If he freely agrees to talk then, his incriminatory statements can be used against him."
 
2010-02-24 07:39:39 PM
gaslight: Mudflap: As a cop, I don't believe you should feel guilty for your opinion.


Mudflap, out of curiosity, what do you think of this story? I realize I'm coming at you from out of the blue, but as someone who is a police officer (I'm guessing) is not in the UK, what do you think of how the police and this citizen interacted. Keep in mind, he was taking pictures of a parade using a $7000 Leica camera.

Photographer videos his own arrest. (new window)


Keeping in mind that I know nothing of the law in the UK, I believe the issue at hand was the police wanted the photographer's identifiers (name, address, etc.) and the photographer did not want to comply until the police articulated their reasonable suspicion for requesting that information. Two different police officers DID articulate their suspicion. The photographer did not agree their suspicions were reasonable and told them so. The police persisted and requested the information several more times. At that point, he had two choices:

1. Comply with their request and give them the identifying information they requested, or

2. Refuse to provide that information and be arrested, which is what he actually did.

If he had chosen #1, I would guess he could (after the fact) address his grievance to a court as to whether or not the police had reasonable suspicion under the law for requesting his personal info.

Yet, he was arrested, detained for several hours, and not charged. Again, I don't know the law in the UK, but I suspect the law would also provide for some version of "unlawful detention" which he could also take to a court for redress.

Long story short, he asserted his rights zealously and was greatly inconvenienced as a result.

My personal opinion: He might have saved himself some headache by being a bit more diplomatic. I could be wrong.
 
2010-02-24 07:40:48 PM
illicit: Ashtrey: slayer199: Just to be clear...you never have to talk to the police...ever.

If they start questioning you, you only have to ask if you're under arrest...which gives them a right to detain you...but you STILL do not have to talk. Even with an attorney present, you don't need to talk.

/former cop

That's what I don't understand on COPS. Everyone just talks to the police.

"May we search you?"
"Sure"
"What's this?"
"Oh that's my crack."
"And what were you doing out here tonight?"
"Hooking."

The better way to handle that would be

"May we search you?"
"No"
"Why not?"
"Have a nice night officer" *walk off*

Have you noticed the kind of people that appear on COPS? It's amazing some of them can even remember to breathe....


...and then there are the Criminals who are ALSO on the show. It's unbelievable.

FTFY
 
2010-02-24 07:46:11 PM
Useless headline, useless article, useless thread.
 
2010-02-24 07:47:34 PM
bohab: love me a good tea baggin


I have great hopes that that truly is you with real shiat on your head.
 
2010-02-24 07:50:21 PM
Timmy the Tumor: I'M a cop and I'll tell everyone reading this, if you are arrested--whether you did it or not, don't say a f*cking thing other than "I'd like my attorney, please."

I'll also tell you that in most cases, if you want a simple traffic stop to be as painless as possible, be polite and courteous and in MOST cases you'll get the same treatment in return (not getting into discussion of the bad seeds, etc--this is FARK, it's a losing battle). If you've done nothing wrong, deal with it in the courtroom, not on the roadside, getting into a pissing match in that circumstance will always be a losing proposition.


Last time I got pulled over for speeding the cop walked up to the side of my car and said 'Good afternoon, my name is Trooper ______ with the Pennsylvania State Police. I pulled you over because my radar indicated you were going 81. The speed limit is 65. May I have your license, registration and proof of insurance please?'

I never had to say a word during the entire interaction. The only thing I had to do was hand him the papers and sign the ticket.

I got a non-moving violation, no points, and paid my fine by mail.
 
2010-02-24 07:51:35 PM
I see this "14 day rule" becoming the "14 day guide" in a future ruling...
 
2010-02-24 07:51:46 PM
The Interrogation of Michael Crowe
 
2010-02-24 07:52:02 PM
OH MY GOD I was in a traffic accident and talked to the cop about what happened! I didn't know I wasn't supposed to tell the cop anything and should have told him to wait for my lawyer to come to the scene and represent me. And then the other day the chief of police came in to talk to the class and we talked to her. OMFG I'm in deep shiat right now aren't I?

My high school classmate was brutally raped outside of the library and luckily she was on her cellphone with a friend, because there were no security cameras (thank god, what an infringement on privacy). Unfortunately, the friend CALLED THE POLICE AND TALKED TO THEM. I can't imagine what happened next.

This ruling is pointless, because you are never never never never never supposed to talk to the police ever, so why should they have to tell you that you have a right to remain silent?
 
2010-02-24 07:54:16 PM
dahmers love zombie: Ashtrey: Fish!: Repeat after me: "Am I under arrest? Am I free to go?". This is the only thing you should ever say to a cop.

So you shouldn't be like my sister who responded to a cop who asked if our garage (which was on fire at the time) had anything in it they should be aware of replied "you mean besides the drugs and dead bodies?"

I was at the store the other day and as the bagger was bringing my cart out to my car (this store is pretty aggressive about walking you out with your stuff), I began to open the trunk, and remembered as I raised the lid that it was full of bags of stuff for Goodwill. I closed the lid and said "Whoops. Better use the backseat". Bagger asked what all that was. I didn't even pause when I responded "Hooker". Took me a couple seconds to realize that I'd even said it. The look on his face was farking priceless. I had to calm the poor guy down.

/csb


Keyboard, owe me, etc.

/or Laughter OL, as the kids are saying these days
 
2010-02-24 07:57:33 PM
aninconvenienterection: Never talk to the police. Not if you are guilty, not if you are innocent, not if you are lonely. There is no reason to, and beyond that, absolutely nothing positive can ever result from it. Only bad things can result. Dont be rude (well, if you want to you can I guess), dont be cute, dont give smart-ass responses, just say nothing.

Follow this edict and you have the absolute best chance to steer clear of law trouble, period. Do not follow this edict, and you are creating an opportunity for trouble that did not exist until you spoke. Let the police do their job, your job is to be silent.


I was going to provide gentle snark, but I have to agree with this statement, unfortunately. The police are not your friends. They're working - and the more they find to do, the better they are at their jobs. You don't even need to be the suspect to be questions, detained, roughed up, or even shot.

I used to think of police as a mild, beneficient force for order (if not good), until I personally watched the horror of power-mad law enforcement during the WTO riots in Seattle. Now, I don't trust the police.
 
2010-02-24 08:01:08 PM
I'm just going to clarify that I WAS going to come in here express my complete disbelief with the ruling, until I read the thread and 20 posts in a row were "all police are evil always". Way to completely miss the farking point.

The reason Miranda is necessary is to protect the citizens from those cops who would use illegal means to coerce confessions from initial suspects. It makes you look like a shrill paranoid betwetter to scream about how merely looking at a cop means the cop will personally assrape you and empty your bank account.
 
2010-02-24 08:01:41 PM
TheRaven7: OH MY GOD I was in a traffic accident and talked to the cop about what happened! I didn't know I wasn't supposed to tell the cop anything and should have told him to wait for my lawyer to come to the scene and represent me. And then the other day the chief of police came in to talk to the class and we talked to her. OMFG I'm in deep shiat right now aren't I?

My high school classmate was brutally raped outside of the library and luckily she was on her cellphone with a friend, because there were no security cameras (thank god, what an infringement on privacy). Unfortunately, the friend CALLED THE POLICE AND TALKED TO THEM. I can't imagine what happened next.

This ruling is pointless, because you are never never never never never supposed to talk to the police ever, so why should they have to tell you that you have a right to remain silent?


I had a lady turn left into my car, and as soon as the cop showed up she started ranting about whiplash and how I drove right in front of her car, speeding, and she couldn't stop. Cop was writing it down until a witness who pulled over came up and told him it was complete and utter BS. So I got a kick out of your first example.

I also always hang around and at least give the victim my number or email after any accident I witness for that same reason. Thanks, lady whose name I never got. I was a teenager and the woman who hit my car was older. The cop was ready to believe her story, and anything I did say at that point could have easily been twisted to fit the scenario the cop was already starting to form in his head.

If you don't understand the nuances of "don't talk to the police" (read: "when they can use that to illegally search you or when doing so automatically waives certain rights you ARE entitled to")...

... well... have fun with that, I guess. I'm more of a 'knowledge is power' person but if 'ignorance is bliss' works for you that's cool I guess.
 
2010-02-24 08:03:19 PM
I only have a problem with this when its applied to innocent people.

The 99% guilty thugs out there can suffer a fatality during the course of an induced incendiary event.
 
2010-02-24 08:03:26 PM
Cop: Do you know why I pulled you over?

Me: Well, hell, if you don't know I'm sure not going to tell you!

/I was much younger then
//got off with the 48-hour "fix it" ticket that I'd have gotten anyhow
///broken tail light that I didn't, in fact, know about
 
2010-02-24 08:03:27 PM
FormlessOne: aninconvenienterection: Never talk to the police. Not if you are guilty, not if you are innocent, not if you are lonely. There is no reason to, and beyond that, absolutely nothing positive can ever result from it. Only bad things can result. Dont be rude (well, if you want to you can I guess), dont be cute, dont give smart-ass responses, just say nothing.

Follow this edict and you have the absolute best chance to steer clear of law trouble, period. Do not follow this edict, and you are creating an opportunity for trouble that did not exist until you spoke. Let the police do their job, your job is to be silent.

I was going to provide gentle snark, but I have to agree with this statement, unfortunately. The police are not your friends. They're working - and the more they find to do, the better they are at their jobs. You don't even need to be the suspect to be questions, detained, roughed up, or even shot.

I used to think of police as a mild, beneficient force for order (if not good), until I personally watched the horror of power-mad law enforcement during the WTO riots in Seattle. Now, I don't trust the police.


Depends on why they are talking to you. If you are innocent and they are doing a quick investigative detention based on reasonable suspicion of what you are doing, you may find yourself in for a very long night if you don't put their suspicions to rest.
 
2010-02-24 08:06:41 PM
I just came to note that a period of 14 days is very short, they're usually every 21.

/ducks
 
2010-02-24 08:09:22 PM
TheRaven7: I'm just going to clarify that I WAS going to come in here express my complete disbelief with the ruling, until I read the thread and 20 posts in a row were "all police are evil always". Way to completely miss the farking point.

The reason Miranda is necessary is to protect the citizens from those cops who would use illegal means to coerce confessions from initial suspects. It makes you look like a shrill paranoid betwetter to scream about how merely looking at a cop means the cop will personally assrape you and empty your bank account.


Way to demonstrate your point completely incoherently then.

I've had friends harassed by cops because they *did* look at them the wrong way, and made up crap ("oh, I smell pot"... "you didn't have your seat belts on") which was completely untrue but good enough to justify what they wanted to do.

There are decent cops, and they're necessary, but there needs to be a HELL of a lot more oversight. And unless the situation is dire and they need to be involved (i.e. your nice over the top rape example, or domestic violence, or something I need a police record of), I'm going to watch my back and say as little as humanely possible.
 
2010-02-24 08:10:21 PM
waywardtraveler.net
 
2010-02-24 08:10:26 PM
Barakku: I just came to note that a period of 14 days is very short, they're usually every 21.

/ducks


1.bp.blogspot.com

/hot
 
2010-02-24 08:11:09 PM
StreetlightInTheGhetto: TheRaven7: OH MY GOD I was in a traffic accident and talked to the cop about what happened! I didn't know I wasn't supposed to tell the cop anything and should have told him to wait for my lawyer to come to the scene and represent me. And then the other day the chief of police came in to talk to the class and we talked to her. OMFG I'm in deep shiat right now aren't I?

My high school classmate was brutally raped outside of the library and luckily she was on her cellphone with a friend, because there were no security cameras (thank god, what an infringement on privacy). Unfortunately, the friend CALLED THE POLICE AND TALKED TO THEM. I can't imagine what happened next.

This ruling is pointless, because you are never never never never never supposed to talk to the police ever, so why should they have to tell you that you have a right to remain silent?

I had a lady turn left into my car, and as soon as the cop showed up she started ranting about whiplash and how I drove right in front of her car, speeding, and she couldn't stop. Cop was writing it down until a witness who pulled over came up and told him it was complete and utter BS. So I got a kick out of your first example.

I also always hang around and at least give the victim my number or email after any accident I witness for that same reason. Thanks, lady whose name I never got. I was a teenager and the woman who hit my car was older. The cop was ready to believe her story, and anything I did say at that point could have easily been twisted to fit the scenario the cop was already starting to form in his head.

If you don't understand the nuances of "don't talk to the police" (read: "when they can use that to illegally search you or when doing so automatically waives certain rights you ARE entitled to")...

... well... have fun with that, I guess. I'm more of a 'knowledge is power' person but if 'ignorance is bliss' works for you that's cool I guess.


You ARE aware that the cop is supposed to take the story from one person at a time, right? Also, she was turning LEFT, so her story would seem dubious. But apparently you have awesome mind-reading powers that allow you to know what the cop was forming in his head.

Also, it is complete and utter bullshiat that talking to the police gives them the right to search your car. Certainly officers can lie and falsify reports, but if they're willing to perform an illegal search not talking isn't going to do anything about it.

The 5th amendment protects you and I'm certainly not advocating spilling our your heart and soul to the random officer that pulls you over, but the idea that anything you say will result in some catastrophic consequence is paranoia. You have to talk to express your refusal to talk, anyway.
 
Ehh
2010-02-24 08:13:41 PM
The facts of the case matter and explain the 9-0 vote. Guy in prison is questioned about a crime he's not in prison for. Gets the Miranda warning, says nothing important enough to get the cops to arrest. Three years later, the cops come back and ask more questions. Is he still Mirandized? Court says no. Pulls the two-week guide out of its originalism. Ta-da.
 
2010-02-24 08:15:09 PM
Mock26: By the way, subby deserved the Fail tag for his headline.

After 14 days people still have the right to remain silent!


You ALWAYS have the right to remain silent...but watching shows like COPS and "Party Heat" I am totally dumbfounded by the number of pure idiots who prefer to dig their own graves with their mouths. Cops and their suspects would be much better off if cops just clubbed all the suspects into unconsciousness so the drunken fools couldn't say anything MORE incriminating or get themselves into MORE trouble by pretending they are Johnnie Cochrane reincarnate.
 
2010-02-24 08:16:13 PM
El Chode: dahmers love zombie: Interesting. Scalia believes that the SCOTUS shouldn't have "invented" the trimester rule that Roe v. Wade was based on. Yet he thinks they can just pull "14 days" out of their assholes?

My God that man is a dick.

The fact that you make me defend Scalia is evidence enough that you have no given nearly enough thought to realize the sharp distinctions between trimesters in abortions and 14 days in a criminal investigation.


~ Ignore the trolls and their Jedi mind non-tricks. ~
 
2010-02-24 08:18:59 PM
TheRaven7: You ARE aware that the cop is supposed to take the story from one person at a time, right? Also, she was turning LEFT, so her story would seem dubious. But apparently you have awesome mind-reading powers that allow you to know what the cop was forming in his head.

Also, it is complete and utter bullshiat that talking to the police gives them the right to search your car. Certainly officers can lie and falsify reports, but if they're willing to perform an illegal search not talking isn't going to do anything about it.

The 5th amendment protects you and I'm certainly not advocating spilling our your heart and soul to the random officer that pulls you over, but the idea that anything you say will result in some catastrophic consequence is paranoia. You have to talk to express your refusal to talk, anyway.


Asserting your rights calmly and quietly will at least give you a shot that the officer will realize that they can't get away with stepping the boundaries of what they are legally allowed to do. It's not about not talking at ALL, it's about brevity and not accidentally self-incriminating being a damn good thing.

By the way? "Smelled marijuana on his breath" when a friend of mine got pulled over (for the "no seatbelt" thing which was a lie as well. Ah, small town cops on power trips are the best). Justification for turning the car upside down. No, he hadn't been smoking.

And I know the officer talks to both parties. He had already questioned me and hadn't written down a thing, but was recording everything that woman had said down. Call me crazy for jumping to conclusions, but that witness who didn't step up until she saw him talking to the other lady thought the same thing. She was going to leave before she saw how he was speaking to each of us.
 
2010-02-24 08:21:30 PM
Funny how worked up a lot of people are getting over a decision made by the Obama Court overturning a decision of the Reagan Court.
 
2010-02-24 08:21:45 PM
Ennuipoet: slayer199: Just to be clear...you never have to talk to the police...ever.

If they start questioning you, you only have to ask if you're under arrest...which gives them a right to detain you...but you STILL do not have to talk. Even with an attorney present, you don't need to talk.

/former cop

Another former cop checking in to remind you to shut the fark up. Your lips, keep them closed. Invoke your right to not speak. Zip it, zip it good. Shh. I've got a bag of shh here with your name all over it.

And be polite, say you would like a lawyer, please and say no more. It will save you the yes very illegal but still very painful beating some no neck, roid raged thug in uniform will dole out.

/very glad to have left that life behind


You and me both.
 
2010-02-24 08:25:36 PM
downstairs: By not talking to cops, you're ASKING them to do everything they can in their power to arrest you. Where often times being polite and somewhat open (not admiting a crime) will cause them to just let you go on their way to deal with more important things.

I have a hard time beliving a cop who pulled you over for something minor, after you give the immediate "am I under arrest or free to go?" deal... isn't going to try their hardest to find a reason to arrest you.

I've been caught speeding many times, even gave the old "I don't know how fast I was going, sorry, I may have been a bit over the speed limit"... and gotten off with no ticket. Many times.


Sure, they can arrest you...but your silence will do you more good than harm. If all they have is PC (probable cause) that you've committed a crime, it's enough for an arrest but NOT enough for a conviction. Let me repeat that, probable cause by itself is NOT enough for a conviction!!!!

If you watched the videos I posted earlier, speaking to the cops will do you more harm than good.
 
2010-02-24 08:27:46 PM
Ssshhh..

i84.photobucket.com">
 
2010-02-24 08:28:56 PM
There sure are a lot of "former cops" here who write as if they're the former cops of the internet variety.

/just sayin'
//I should know (former cop)
 
2010-02-24 08:29:23 PM
Blind_Io: Let me quote that for you in court:
"Your Honor, I asked the Defendant if he stopped beating his wife, he replied, 'No.'"

Incomplete? Yes. Inaccurate? No.


First, I was referring to the 'have you stopped beating your wife' question by itself, not in conjunction with a police questioning.

Second, "no" is still a correct answer (albeit one that needs explanation for the dumber listeners), for the reason I gave in my original, longer answer: One cannot 'stop' an action one has not started. Therefore, "I have not stopped beating my wife" is completely true, because I never started beating her.

Third, If a cop tried what you said (partially quoting me), I'd simply get on the stand, and explain the above point. I'd also stress the fact that the shiat he's pulling (partially quoting me) was highly dishonest and unworthy of an Officer of the Law. Sure, I might come off as a bit of a smart-mouth, but an innocent one.
 
2010-02-24 08:32:13 PM
StreetlightInTheGhetto: TheRaven7: You ARE aware that the cop is supposed to take the story from one person at a time, right? Also, she was turning LEFT, so her story would seem dubious. But apparently you have awesome mind-reading powers that allow you to know what the cop was forming in his head.

Also, it is complete and utter bullshiat that talking to the police gives them the right to search your car. Certainly officers can lie and falsify reports, but if they're willing to perform an illegal search not talking isn't going to do anything about it.

The 5th amendment protects you and I'm certainly not advocating spilling our your heart and soul to the random officer that pulls you over, but the idea that anything you say will result in some catastrophic consequence is paranoia. You have to talk to express your refusal to talk, anyway.

Asserting your rights calmly and quietly will at least give you a shot that the officer will realize that they can't get away with stepping the boundaries of what they are legally allowed to do. It's not about not talking at ALL, it's about brevity and not accidentally self-incriminating being a damn good thing.

By the way? "Smelled marijuana on his breath" when a friend of mine got pulled over (for the "no seatbelt" thing which was a lie as well. Ah, small town cops on power trips are the best). Justification for turning the car upside down. No, he hadn't been smoking.

And I know the officer talks to both parties. He had already questioned me and hadn't written down a thing, but was recording everything that woman had said down. Call me crazy for jumping to conclusions, but that witness who didn't step up until she saw him talking to the other lady thought the same thing. She was going to leave before she saw how he was speaking to each of us.


Yeah, that's messed up. Where are you, anyway?
 
2010-02-24 08:38:52 PM
downstairs: Ok, all well and good. So you're just biding time before the cop goes and gets a warrant and searches you anyway.

Lets say you DO have drugs on you or in your car.

Do you think the cop is just going to let you go on your way because you said "no"?

You realize with a warrant, that gives them the right to search you and your card without your consent.

Not trying to argue, I'm interested in the subject... but it doesn't sound like this "don't talk to cops" advice is going to get you out of shiat.


Yes, many times a cop will let you go unless they have another reason to arrest you. Of course, they may watch you or try to intimidate you, but if they don't have a legitimate reason for arrest yet detain you anyway, anything found in a subsequent search will get tossed (fruit of the poisonous tree).

If they do ask you to step out of your vehicle, you must comply with a lawful order. If they frisk you for weapons (Terry Pat), that again is legal. But your vehicle or home is another matter entirely.

There's a few ways they can search your vehicle (I'll go through these as best I can from memory..it's been a long time since I was a LEO).

1. Consent to search - You can consent to searching your vehicle...which is never a good idea.
2. Search incident to an arrest - If you're under arrest, they can search anywhere within your reach (anywhere around the front and back seat and glove compartment)
3. Inventory search - If your vehicle is parked illegally or an impediment to traffic, they can impound your vehicle...which gives them carte blanche to search everywhere in the vehicle.
4. Drug-sniffing dogs - This is a bit nebulous depending on state, but a drug-sniffing dog that hits on drugs in a vehicle is further PC to search inside the vehicle.
5. Warrant - This is EXTREMELY difficult for the police to obtain. Unless you have priors as a drug dealer and they have lots of PC, getting a judge to sign and getting it back to the vehicle if you're not under arrest is extremely difficult.

Something to keep in mind, cops can lie to you and tell you they'll go easier on you if you talk...that is seldom the case. Your best bet is to refuse to searches, refuse to speak. The only question I'd ask is: "Am I under arrest?" If yes, "Why am I under arrest?" After that, shut the fark up...ask for an attorney and invoke the 5th Amendment.
 
2010-02-24 08:40:06 PM
TheRaven7: StreetlightInTheGhetto: TheRaven7: You ARE aware that the cop is supposed to take the story from one person at a time, right? Also, she was turning LEFT, so her story would seem dubious. But apparently you have awesome mind-reading powers that allow you to know what the cop was forming in his head.

Also, it is complete and utter bullshiat that talking to the police gives them the right to search your car. Certainly officers can lie and falsify reports, but if they're willing to perform an illegal search not talking isn't going to do anything about it.

The 5th amendment protects you and I'm certainly not advocating spilling our your heart and soul to the random officer that pulls you over, but the idea that anything you say will result in some catastrophic consequence is paranoia. You have to talk to express your refusal to talk, anyway.

Asserting your rights calmly and quietly will at least give you a shot that the officer will realize that they can't get away with stepping the boundaries of what they are legally allowed to do. It's not about not talking at ALL, it's about brevity and not accidentally self-incriminating being a damn good thing.

By the way? "Smelled marijuana on his breath" when a friend of mine got pulled over (for the "no seatbelt" thing which was a lie as well. Ah, small town cops on power trips are the best). Justification for turning the car upside down. No, he hadn't been smoking.

And I know the officer talks to both parties. He had already questioned me and hadn't written down a thing, but was recording everything that woman had said down. Call me crazy for jumping to conclusions, but that witness who didn't step up until she saw him talking to the other lady thought the same thing. She was going to leave before she saw how he was speaking to each of us.

Yeah, that's messed up. Where are you, anyway?


When I was 19, an old bat turned left into my oncoming car. She lied to the policeman and convinced him the accident occurred on private property. I told him the truth, that were *I* the liar who'd turned left, as the old bat said, I would have had to have been turning left into the woods, and she would've been driving straight--out of the woods.

He tore up the private property form and filled out the proper form, and yelled at her for lying.
 
2010-02-24 08:41:02 PM
Justices overturn 1981 'Edwards rule,' intended to prevent suspects from being badgered.

Fun time starts now!
 
2010-02-24 08:42:25 PM
CaesarSneezy: Yeah, but in real life without cameras it's your word against the officers, and if they just might slam you into a pole and say you tried to kill them as easily as they'd let you go. That's why we need cameras on officers all the time.

It also protects the good honest cops from false accusations.

I'll give you an example (and I'm sure this happens frequently). A buddy of mine works for a department in the area. Their cars all have video cameras. After an arrest, they turn the camera around to the back seat. Anyway, this clown they arrested started banging his head up against the shield and cut up his forehead. He told my buddy he was going to file a brutality charge. My buddy pointed to the camera and laughed....the guy muttered "MFer" sat back and shut up the rest of the way back to the station.
 
2010-02-24 08:45:25 PM
TheGreatGildersleeve: Funny how worked up a lot of people are getting over a decision made by the Obama Court overturning a decision of the Reagan Court.

Funny how some people don't bother to realize that nothing has been "overturned" with this decision. The Terms of the Miranda rights have been further defined, if anything. All this does is codify the common-sense idea that once read, the Miranda rights don't extend indefinitely, like in this case YEARS later.
 
2010-02-24 08:50:01 PM
darkscout: All you 'never talk to police' guys fail at not posting the links.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

After watching this I did pull this crap on a routine traffic stop. Cop was frustrated but didn't want to deal with it.

"You mind if we poke around in back".
"Do you have a warrant?".
"No".
"Am I under arrest or may I leave".
"You'll leave when I decide you can leave".
"Am I under arrest or may I leave".

/Going to listen to them again.


I did post those same vids 2010-02-24 03:13:47 PM
 
2010-02-24 08:55:28 PM
GaryPDX: I have heard from several police I know that if you see a crime and report it, you are immediately a suspect in that crime. It's standard operating procedure. Never talk to police without legal council, ever.

Gary seems almost lucid tonight ... must be back on his meds.
 
2010-02-24 09:18:48 PM
Avoiding admissions of guilt to police is a good thing. That being said, I also wouldn't recommend taking a great deal of your legal advice from Fark.

/just saying
 
2010-02-24 09:29:55 PM
I've had more good interactions with police than bad - and I used to get pulled over more often than I should have (though I deserved them). I remember being pulled over one night in Tallahassee, FL by a young female cop because I hadn't renewed the registration on my car by 6 months. She wrote me a ticket.

She then asked if she could take a look around in my car. I replied, "No... Thank you."
She asked, "Why not?"
I replied. "Well... First of all, I'd rather not have a complete stranger digging around in my car by the side of the road. Secondly, I do have my 4th amendment rights, so I might as well use them."
She replied, "I could get a warrant and do it anyway."
I said, "I'm sure you could."
She smiled, passed me my ticket and returned my DL.

All in all it wasn't that big of a deal or threatening in tone. It was almost like a friendly verbal sparring match than anything else - though if she had a mind to be a douche, things could have gotten sticky - even though I had nothing to hide.
 
2010-02-24 09:30:22 PM
Weaver95: Never, ever, never, ever talk to the cops without a lawyer present. I don't care if a cop asks you for the time of day - don't give him an answer without consulting a lawyer first.

Thread should've ended here.
 
2010-02-24 09:33:07 PM
Sounds like a way to catch stupid criminals who like to brag, or who forget the shouldn't EVER admit to a crime. To anybody. Ever. No sympathy here.
 
2010-02-24 09:34:59 PM
FWIW Police were always able to badger and intimidate you, even threaten... they just couldn't physically harm you.

Truth is if you want to accuse them of breaking the law, the burden of proof is on you. As any lawyer (and good cops) will tell you, verbal harassment is essentially legal unless you have witnesses.

He said, she said isn't going to fly in court if you have other charges. So unless you have evidence... and they will stop the tape recording if necessary so they don't self incriminate... your SOL.
 
2010-02-24 09:38:39 PM
El Chode: 2wolves: "Charge me or release me. If charged I will not say another word until my lawyer is present." Then STFU.

FTFY


Officer, I want to cooperate, but first I need to speak with council. (Then STFU).
 
2010-02-24 09:44:38 PM
slayer199:
2. Search incident to an arrest - If you're under arrest, they can search anywhere within your reach (anywhere around the front and back seat and glove compartment)


When they ask you to get out of your vehicle, close and lock the door behind you. That way, even if you are arrested, in most cases they will need a warrent to search the vehicle.
 
2010-02-24 09:50:12 PM
Can anyone point me to an article that tells the reader whether, once the 14 days have passed, the police are responsible for re-Mirandizing you, or whether the onus is on the suspect to remember his/her rights when questioned again? I've read two articles about the opinion and neither mentioned it.

I'm really hoping to avoid reading the whole decision, but I might just do it to get my blood boiling...
 
2010-02-24 09:52:07 PM
Smackledorfer: FormlessOne: aninconvenienterection: Never talk to the police. Not if you are guilty, not if you are innocent, not if you are lonely. There is no reason to, and beyond that, absolutely nothing positive can ever result from it. Only bad things can result. Dont be rude (well, if you want to you can I guess), dont be cute, dont give smart-ass responses, just say nothing.

Follow this edict and you have the absolute best chance to steer clear of law trouble, period. Do not follow this edict, and you are creating an opportunity for trouble that did not exist until you spoke. Let the police do their job, your job is to be silent.

I was going to provide gentle snark, but I have to agree with this statement, unfortunately. The police are not your friends. They're working - and the more they find to do, the better they are at their jobs. You don't even need to be the suspect to be questions, detained, roughed up, or even shot.

I used to think of police as a mild, beneficient force for order (if not good), until I personally watched the horror of power-mad law enforcement during the WTO riots in Seattle. Now, I don't trust the police.

Depends on why they are talking to you. If you are innocent and they are doing a quick investigative detention based on reasonable suspicion of what you are doing, you may find yourself in for a very long night if you don't put their suspicions to rest.


Better one night, off the record, than an undeserved conviction (or even a deserved one for that matter).
 
2010-02-24 10:01:20 PM
TheRaven7: OH MY GOD I was in a traffic accident and talked to the cop about what happened! I didn't know I wasn't supposed to tell the cop anything and should have told him to wait for my lawyer to come to the scene and represent me. And then the other day the chief of police came in to talk to the class and we talked to her. OMFG I'm in deep shiat right now aren't I?

My high school classmate was brutally raped outside of the library and luckily she was on her cellphone with a friend, because there were no security cameras (thank god, what an infringement on privacy). Unfortunately, the friend CALLED THE POLICE AND TALKED TO THEM. I can't imagine what happened next.

This ruling is pointless, because you are never never never never never supposed to talk to the police ever, so why should they have to tell you that you have a right to remain silent?


Clearly the discussion here is in regard to a police questioning, not a class visit, calling the police to report a crime, etc, but thanks for trying to twist it around. As for your car accident example, well, I am sure plenty of Farkers can provide you with plenty of examples of their own words at the scene coming back to bite them, fairly or not. Suit yourself, but me and mine just say no to answering questions from the man.
 
2010-02-24 10:02:59 PM
El Chode: You still do. The decision merely makes it so the police can annoy and harass you into talking. The only thing this ruling does is reaffirm the old notion that you NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE no matter how much they lie to you and tell you it'll be easier and they'll be willing to ignore your crime if you just tell them you committed it.


Everyone should watch this (new window).
 
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