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(The Consumerist)   If you think turning off the ignition, standing on the brakes, or putting the car in neutral will stop your out-of-control Toyota or Lexus, boy are you in for an amusing twist   (consumerist.com) divider line 724
    More: Scary, Lexus, Toyota, mats, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, maximum speed, guard rail, tow trucks, overrides  
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45025 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Feb 2010 at 12:21 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-02-25 12:48:33 AM
FootInMouthDisease: Ihaveanevilparrot: Derp.

Who are you referring to, precisely?

Examples or Citations?

You just wanted to threadshiat? Got it.

/Some of us actually build, maintain and race our vehicles.


I was just referring to the idiots posting misinformation as if they're experts and belittling the ones that are responding with the correct info. Not the people posting random info they've picked up.

Some of you are actually posting really good information, but it's mixed in with all of the idiots.

Don't take offense if you actually know what you're talking about.

I'm not gonna look up and quote specific names because this thread is just WAY too long for me to want to put the time into that.

Mostly just ranting. Meh.
 
2010-02-25 12:50:05 AM
Don't think I risk derailing the thread. It's gone WAY past that point.
 
2010-02-25 12:55:35 AM
Ihaveanevilparrot: Don't think I risk derailing the thread. It's gone WAY past that point.

Yea, I think it is dead now anyways.

Perhaps a bit harsh on my part.

I was speaking on my behalf, for rohar, and a few others who have laptops bolted into our cars so we can tune/datalog while we drive.

;D
 
2010-02-25 12:57:53 AM
Oh and in response to a few of the people saying if you hold down the button on a computer it will shut off, I have had that not work.

I've been messing with a ton of computers since about 1994 (yeah I know, really recent for some of you oldschoolers).
I've owned a ton of them and my uncle owns a computer store, so I've messed with a bunch of new and used computers with software and hardware issues also. I have had to manually disconnect the cable to power some of them down after holding down the button for a very long time did absolutely nothing and none of the software appeared to be responding. Granted I have not had this happen often, but it has happened.
I am not sure why this would be the case, since I'm not a computer expert, but it indeed DOES happen. I'm sure some of the computer software/hardware experts could back me up and explain why that might happen. But it wouldn't surprise me that a car with a computerized kill switch might not respond, at least not in the time it's supposed to. And if it doesn't respond in the few seconds it's supposed to I could see how that would really worry a driver. Not to mention, I dunno, but wouldn't the engine shut off possibly be disabled while moving at a certain speed since it would possibly lock the steering components?
Like I said, I won't even try to imagine why since I'm not up to date on that kind of technology, it just wouldn't surprise me.
 
2010-02-25 12:58:47 AM
FootInMouthDisease: Indubitably: tl;dr

Learn to quote.

Why the fark do you need to copy in your own login 4-5 times?

Ego issues?

GTFO


Nice.

Why, yes, I do, and you?fark off savvy-internet-savant.fark-off twice.

Cyber-poem:

What color does your hat be?

when you walk down the aisle so scoobity-skoo

with that jervy talkin' papsus

runnin' round picking up

pieces

of some other broken life...

What color does your hat be?

Does it change colors like a

mood ring?
 
2010-02-25 12:58:47 AM
And for some reason I was under the impression we had our Speed Density discussion in this thread, and it appears I was mistaken this one for the "New Massachusetts Laws on OE Code" thread.

I too have been getting tired of misinformation, but their are some very astute farkers on here.

Their posts are usually pretty obvious with stark contrast to that of the couch mechanics.
 
2010-02-25 01:00:58 AM
Welcome, and enjoy being the only person on my ignore list you narcisstic tool.

.
.
.

Ah, much better.
 
2010-02-25 01:02:16 AM
Indubitably: Derp.

Yea... you can go eat a big heaping bowl of dicks now.
 
2010-02-25 01:03:26 AM
FootInMouthDisease: Ihaveanevilparrot: Don't think I risk derailing the thread. It's gone WAY past that point.

Yea, I think it is dead now anyways.

Perhaps a bit harsh on my part.

I was speaking on my behalf, for rohar, and a few others who have laptops bolted into our cars so we can tune/datalog while we drive.

;D


Oh yeah that's cool. Don't think that I was attacking all of you :)
I know some very knowledgeable car enthusiasts that I would trust to give me information or work on any of my vehicles. Most of them, oddly enough, aren't mechanics, just hobbyists, so I kind of take offense to people acting like know-it-alls just because they call themselves a mechanic.
Normal mechanics tend learn what they need to know to work on certain parts or vehicles for profit. They don't learn a certain vehicles components inside and out just for the heck of it like a lot of hardcore automotive enthusiasts do.
That's why I don't lend much credence to the term "mechanic". It doesn't mean anything unless you're a mechanic for something very specific and you're discussing that specific item.
 
2010-02-25 01:08:18 AM
FootInMouthDisease: Welcome, and enjoy being the only person on my ignore list you narcisstic tool.

.
.
.

Ah, much better.


Thanks, I rather like Tool...

;)
 
2010-02-25 01:19:44 AM
Now we wait to hear the thousands of stories that come rolling in that are similar Rhonda Smith's, and have happened more recently than 2006.

/and wait
//and wait
 
2010-02-25 02:26:27 AM
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet or not, but if I were that broad, I would've called 911 and had the highway patrol lay down some tack strips a few miles ahead of me, preferably on a nice long, wide straightaway with some shrubbery along the side of the road.
 
2010-02-25 02:59:07 AM
NorCalLos: Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet or not, but if I were that broad, I would've called 911 and had the highway patrol lay down some tack strips a few miles ahead of me, preferably on a nice long, wide straightaway with some shrubbery along the side of the road.

If the cops could get their shiat together in time, are you aware of what happens when you hit a spike strip or suffer a blow out at speed?

They could hit it with an EMP, which some departments now carry, and everything but some older diesels with mechanical pumps would succumb to the electromagnetic blast.
 
2010-02-25 04:43:20 AM
Ivan Dobski: /sepaku or hari kari?

img692.imageshack.us

Just sayin'

// Scary similarity.
 
2010-02-25 08:32:52 AM
I would have a hard time believing this story in isolation, but in combination with 911 calls (new window) in which people can neither slow down nor turn the vehicle off, it's perfectly believable. And no, the family in that 911 call isn't looking for a payout, they're busy being dead.
 
2010-02-25 08:35:14 AM
Roy_G_Biv: floor9: manimal2878: %100 bullshiat.

I don't know about that, man. There are too many complaints to be ignored.

I'm not a mechanic, so the inner workings of these systems is beyond my skill level. But if the throttle is indeed a "throttle by wire" system, and if the transmission is also electronic, then it's not hard to imagine a software failure.

I don't think these cars have braking by wire, so I'm going with "%100 bullshiat".


You think wrong, combine EFI wherein electronics decide how much gas to give the engine and ABS, in which electronics can override a drivers application of brakes, combine programming problems in both, and you have yourself a grade-a deathrocket.
 
2010-02-25 08:39:58 AM
Ihaveanevilparrot: Oh and in response to a few of the people saying if you hold down the button on a computer it will shut off, I have had that not work.

I've been messing with a ton of computers since about 1994 (yeah I know, really recent for some of you oldschoolers).
I've owned a ton of them and my uncle owns a computer store, so I've messed with a bunch of new and used computers with software and hardware issues also. I have had to manually disconnect the cable to power some of them down after holding down the button for a very long time did absolutely nothing and none of the software appeared to be responding. Granted I have not had this happen often, but it has happened.
I am not sure why this would be the case, since I'm not a computer expert, but it indeed DOES happen. I'm sure some of the computer software/hardware experts could back me up and explain why that might happen. But it wouldn't surprise me that a car with a computerized kill switch might not respond, at least not in the time it's supposed to. And if it doesn't respond in the few seconds it's supposed to I could see how that would really worry a driver. Not to mention, I dunno, but wouldn't the engine shut off possibly be disabled while moving at a certain speed since it would possibly lock the steering components?
Like I said, I won't even try to imagine why since I'm not up to date on that kind of technology, it just wouldn't surprise me.


Anyone who says that holding down the button is a failsafe is an idiot. There's a reason you have to hold it down for a predetermined period of time, that reason is programming. It isn't an actual switch, it's a button, it sends a message saying "I'd like to shut down now" to the computer... if you just press it and your OS is working, it will shut down normally, if you hold it, the mobo will realize that you're holding down the button, so it will turn your computer off in a not so gentle manner. That said, if your OS is locked and your mobo isn't properly recognizing the signal or responding for some reason, nothings gonna happen until you reach around to the power supply and flip the switch.
 
2010-02-25 08:55:16 AM
firefly212: I would have a hard time believing this story in isolation, but in combination with one 911 calls (new window) in which people can neither slow down nor turn the vehicle off, it's perfectly believable. And no, the family in that 911 call isn't looking for a payout, they're busy being dead.

ftfy

/btw, that one was well documented to be caused by the accelerater pedal being stuck under the floormat.
 
2010-02-25 11:52:54 AM
kendelrio: Wrong wrong wrong. If you look at your diagrams, neither of those circuits require the battery in them to remain closed. There are no less than 3 references to ground in each circuit. Your battery is nothing more than a large capacitor.

References to ground mean nothing. What matters is the +12v (actually +14.5 or so) reference received by the voltage regulator, which is how it determines how much power to shunt through the alternator's excitation coil - thus regulating the alternator's output.

Without a battery the whole thing is unstable. A sudden change in load will cause a corresponding change in regulation and the whole thing collapses. Or your regulator will give up the ghost...

Whatever. Do what you want, it's not going to be my repair bill.

Reading back up at how this started, it's moot anyway: a kill switch should not disconnect the battery - it should interrupt the ignition circuit.
=Smidge=
 
MrT
2010-02-25 01:27:24 PM
firefly212: Anyone who says that holding down the button is a failsafe is an idiot. There's a reason you have to hold it down for a predetermined period of time, that reason is programming. It isn't an actual switch, it's a button, it sends a message saying "I'd like to shut down now" to the computer... if you just press it and your OS is working, it will shut down normally, if you hold it, the mobo will realize that you're holding down the button, so it will turn your computer off in a not so gentle manner. That said, if your OS is locked and your mobo isn't properly recognizing the signal or responding for some reason, nothings gonna happen until you reach around to the power supply and flip the switch.

That's not necessarily true. In most computers (possibly not all), the hardware power off is an actual electrical hardware circuit. Computer mains power circuits are often controlled by a mechanical relay (which is why there is a loud "thunk" when they turn off). Depressing the power button sends a message to the operating system, but also discharges the capacitor whose voltage is holding the relay closed. When the voltage falls enough, the relay opens and the computer turns off. This hardware shutdown has no software dependency.
 
2010-02-25 01:59:48 PM
Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

If you watched the video you'd know she referred to it as a bluetooth phone, so it was built into the car.
 
2010-02-25 04:42:40 PM
Yet another reason I'd rather own a stick shift.
 
2010-02-25 10:18:50 PM
MrT: firefly212: Anyone who says that holding down the button is a failsafe is an idiot. There's a reason you have to hold it down for a predetermined period of time, that reason is programming. It isn't an actual switch, it's a button, it sends a message saying "I'd like to shut down now" to the computer... if you just press it and your OS is working, it will shut down normally, if you hold it, the mobo will realize that you're holding down the button, so it will turn your computer off in a not so gentle manner. That said, if your OS is locked and your mobo isn't properly recognizing the signal or responding for some reason, nothings gonna happen until you reach around to the power supply and flip the switch.

That's not necessarily true. In most computers (possibly not all), the hardware power off is an actual electrical hardware circuit. Computer mains power circuits are often controlled by a mechanical relay (which is why there is a loud "thunk" when they turn off). Depressing the power button sends a message to the operating system, but also discharges the capacitor whose voltage is holding the relay closed. When the voltage falls enough, the relay opens and the computer turns off. This hardware shutdown has no software dependency.


My Sony Vaio, Compaq Presario, Toshiba Satellite, and Toshiba Tecra disagree with you. Over the years at one time or another, they have locked up to the point where the power button did absolutely nothing at all. The desktops had to be reset with the rear power switch, and the laptop had to have the battery removed. OH, and the PS3 did once, and I had to flip the rear power switch, while the Wii has not frozen up at all so far (knock on wood). So, why couldn't that happen on a push button start vehicle? It is just another computer with wheels.
 
2010-02-27 02:17:37 PM
GoodOmens: Roy_G_Biv: GoodOmens: oldfarthenry: Let's see - the government pours BILLIONS into the domestic auto industry then TA-DA - their major competition gets raked over the coals over recall issues.

Sorry, lady - I know the UAW is paying you a lot of money to testi-lie but I'm smellin' a conspiracy!
*adjusts tin foil hat*

Considering there are NOT similar problems with other foreign car companies such as Hyundai, Honda, Subaru, BMW, Nissan, Mercedes (and I can continue on). I see a lot of holes in your theory.

They didn't close their only UAW-organized plant or get close to being number one in market share.

What would be the point? Taking out your #1 rival when you continue to make crappy cars would just mean someone would pick up the slack.

Hyundai surpassed Toyota's market share in the US for new cars and currently sits at #1. Why isn't GM targeting them?



Where did I say it had anything to do with helping GM?

The UAW was apparently owed a favor by the Obama administration (they haven't gotten card-check) and they used it to punish a company that closed its only UAW-controlled plant.

It's the Chicago (political) way; you use your elected office reward your supporters and punish your enemies.
 
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