If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Consumerist)   If you think turning off the ignition, standing on the brakes, or putting the car in neutral will stop your out-of-control Toyota or Lexus, boy are you in for an amusing twist   (consumerist.com) divider line 724
    More: Scary, Lexus, Toyota, mats, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, maximum speed, guard rail, tow trucks, overrides  
•       •       •

45025 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Feb 2010 at 12:21 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



724 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | » | Last | Show all
 
2010-02-24 12:49:09 PM
How do we know these people are not lying for their "cut"? Seems more likely than a car in neutral accelerting that a woman driver is both retarded and out for a check.
 
2010-02-24 12:49:10 PM
HansensDisease
After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

I wasn't aware that God controlled the reset pin on embedded processors!

Does that feature come with the car?


God is a standard feature on all 2010 Lexus models and is part of the luxury and sport packages on the Camry and Corolla.
 
2010-02-24 12:49:19 PM
thepatriotaxe.com
/sepaku or hari kari?
 
2010-02-24 12:49:30 PM
alywa: The accelerator issues sound like electrical / computer problems based on the testimonies I've read so far. That said, here's my Cool Story Bro ®...

Last fall I had reason to travel to So. Cal for a conference. The hotel we were staying at had valet only parking, which was free to hybrid drivers.

When I rented a car, a Prius was only $15 more a day (valet would have been $25 / day)... I decided to rent the Prius and not pay for parking.

That car was a nightmare. Numerous times I'd think I was in gear, only to be in neutral. Or, I'd think I was in park, and lift my foot off the brake, only to lurch forward. For those of you who haven't driven one or ridden in one, for reasons only explicable to Toyota, they have a completely non-standard shift / drive selection mechanism. (I should add, I drive a Civic Hybrid as my regular commuter car... good mileage, drives pretty much the same as a regular civic. Same keys, same gear selection, same pull lever parking brake, etc)



Look at the picture above. There is an on/off button. A parking brake button. A shifter / drive selector that puts the car in drive, neutral, reverse, and in an "eco mode". This may all make immediate sense to Prius owners, but for most of us I'd say it is confusing. Some of the stories I've read had to do with rental / loaner cars, so I'd have to imagine this confusion has played in somewhat.

So... people who don't know to hold down the power button are farked. If the car won't shift out of drive you're farked. An electronic parking brake button isn't going to do shiat. Nothing in that car isn't electronicly controlled (transmission, acceleration, braking, etc)... almost nothing someone can do if the electronics are going bad, and if the start/stop button won't actually turn off the car (big question), what else can you do?

I'd predict this is going to end up being the largest product liability situation since the tobacco settlements... the loss of sales Toyota / Lexus is likely suffering right now must be devastating. They've got a serious farking problem, and I don't see how they are going to get out of it anytime soon.


Interesting. The Toyota Prius was going to be my next car. Maybe I will go for a Chevrolet Volt instead.
 
2010-02-24 12:49:33 PM
oldfarthenry: Let's see - the government pours BILLIONS into the domestic auto industry then TA-DA - their major competition gets raked over the coals over recall issues.

Sorry, lady - I know the UAW is paying you a lot of money to testi-lie but I'm smellin' a conspiracy!
*adjusts tin foil hat*


Could be that the other car companies cut corners to turn a profit... but hey, what do I know about corporate deadlines.
 
2010-02-24 12:50:10 PM
impaler: Actually no one is griping on her saying "thank god!" They are commenting on the fact that she attributes god to slowing the car. The point being it doesn't take hours of scientific thought to reason "if god gets credit for stopping it, why not starting it?"

Au contraire, people are sh*tting all over her for not being able to provide an explanation for something. The Toyota technicians with diagnostic equipment were also unable to explain it. She used a colloquial device to describe the unexplained, unexpected, and altogether appreciated. Do all such posters lose hours of sleep whenever someone describes an "act of God" in reference to insurance claims?

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Lord replied, 'My precious child, I love you and I would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of skid marks, that's when I was calling you over the OnStar system to tell you you mixed up the brake and gas pedals, but the phone was busy because you were yakking with your husband. Stupid biatch.'"

So the whole time that she describes shifting the transmission, attempting to cycle the ignition, using the e-brake you're 100% certain that she had her feet jammed, continuously on the gas thinking it was the brake. How would it have affected this argument if she had said "after six miles, I guess I was touched by his noodly appendage because the car finally slowed. Just kidding I'm an avowed atheist and there's no such thing as God. The car slowed down, and I'm appreciative of that continued living thing."

What a stupid c*nt, not believing in FSM or any other spaghetti monsters.
 
2010-02-24 12:50:11 PM
factoryconnection: GAT_00: Because if people did that, they'd think it through and stop believing in God. I always have to stop myself from strangling someone when they say something like that.

Her car was hurtling down the highway and nothing that she could do could bring it under control. Then, randomly the car slowed down despite continued signs that the thing was f*cked up. Believe it or not, people reacting to unexplained events that without hours and hours of scientific thought aren't doing it just to piss off thin-skinned douche bags on the internet.

Lady: "Thank God I'm not dead."
ITA: "F*CK YOU YOU STUPID C*NT GOD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT WHY DON'T YOU PUT MORE THOUGHT INTO IT YOU FAT COW!!!"

Get a grip on yourselves.


When unexplained events happen, I don't immediately think 'magic!', but then, I'm not an idiot.
 
2010-02-24 12:50:18 PM
ZAZ: floor9

Are you sure your clutch is a direct mechanical link? My last two cars have had a master-slave cylinder pair that malfunctioned leaving the clutch engaged full time.


A cylinder is part of a hydraulic system, right? Does it necessarily include electronics?

/seriously - I'm asking...
 
2010-02-24 12:50:27 PM
Katie98_KT: My parents both have a Prius, and I've driven their car plenty of times. I'm willing to believe that she had trouble putting it into neutral (it has a super weird tiny handle for shifting, and I'm assuming the lexus is the same way).
HOWEVER, let me say this- when you shift the prius, the handle resets to the middle. So she may have been continually trying to push the button in, and freaking out because it kept resetting and not sticking. Especially if it was a new car to her (as people above are saying, her story only works if she had had the car only a month or two), she may never have noticed that happening.

here's a picture:

Also, having grown up driving a stick, I can't imagine putting a car into neutral, slamming the brakes (including emergency brake) and turning off the car won't slow it down.


It works if the ECU decides to put the transmission into neutral when you move the gearshift. If it decides not to like in this case, you're pretty much farked. Same goes for the electronic ignition etc
 
2010-02-24 12:50:27 PM
Honestly, I'm more shocked by the people who act like 100mph on a highway is ridiculously fast and there's no possible way to do anything beyond hanging on for dear life at those kinds of speeds.

In any well built card designed for comfortable highway travel, 100mph is quick, but not a Huge Farking Deal(tm). When I was a teenager, less conscience of the financial ramifications, 100mph was no big deal. Now that I'm older, it's still police concerns that prevent those speeds and not safety concerns (assuming good road conditions). I'd be absolutely shocked if the majority of people in this thread criticizing her for calling her husband at 100mph haven't driven comfortably at 100mph, even if it was accidental due to incline or not paying enough attention to speed while passing.

100mph in a neighborhood; perhaps panic is called for, but she was on an interstate. The worst case scenario is not being able to navigate around other slower drivers. Her car should be able to safely handle the highway at 100mph if she doesn't panic.
 
2010-02-24 12:50:33 PM
oldfarthenry: Let's see - the government pours BILLIONS into the domestic auto industry then TA-DA - their major competition gets raked over the coals over recall issues.

Sorry, lady - I know the UAW is paying you a lot of money to testi-lie but I'm smellin' a conspiracy!
*adjusts tin foil hat*


THIS!! This this this, oh this!
 
2010-02-24 12:50:44 PM
Prank Call of Cthulhu: Eddie Adams from Torrance: God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

No, it'll turn out to be one of those inspirational, "Footprints" kind of things.

"...Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you you'd drive with me all the way. But I noticed there is only one set of skid marks down the whole six miles of freeway. I don't understand why when I needed you most you would leave me.

The Lord replied, 'My precious child, I love you and I would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of skid marks, that's when I was calling you over the OnStar system to tell you you mixed up the brake and gas pedals, but the phone was busy because you were yakking with your husband. Stupid biatch.'"


I'd like to see that laminated to a wooden plaque and hung on a wall.
 
2010-02-24 12:50:47 PM
bodyshots: so yeah, your tranny,

don't bring my tranny into this!
 
2010-02-24 12:51:01 PM
She left out the part where she deliberately drove off a cliff to avoid hitting a busload of nuns and orphans in that version.
 
2010-02-24 12:51:11 PM
See? this is what happens when people get lazy. "Oooh it's so much WORK to turn a key to start my car, why oh why doesn't someone make it easier?"

Supposedly, you can shut these pushbutton cars down by holding the button down, but if the software is already freaking out, will it pay any attention to the button? I don't know, because my car has a key (and a stickshift just like a Real ITG) that actually cuts power to the engine electronics to shut the car off, not one of these buttons like an ATX power supp....

Heeeyyyyy..... Nah, not possible. Can't be using cheap power supplies in those expensive cars, right?

Unimpressed.

www.freewebs.com

Best smell in the world....
 
2010-02-24 12:51:16 PM
impaler: factoryconnection: Her car was hurtling down the highway and nothing that she could do could bring it under control. Then, randomly the car slowed down despite continued signs that the thing was f*cked up. Believe it or not, people reacting to unexplained events that without hours and hours of scientific thought aren't doing it just to piss off thin-skinned douche bags on the internet.

Lady: "Thank God I'm not dead."
ITA: "F*CK YOU YOU STUPID C*NT GOD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT WHY DON'T YOU PUT MORE THOUGHT INTO IT YOU FAT COW!!!"

Get a grip on yourselves.

Actually no one is griping on her saying "thank god!" They are commenting on the fact that she attributes god to slowing the car. The point being it doesn't take hours of scientific thought to reason "if god gets credit for stopping it, why not starting it?"


Psht. Of course God didn't get her into trouble. Satan did. Or one of those other crap gods that the heathens have.
Or Obama.
Or some guy putting his peener into another guy's butt.

Get serious.
 
2010-02-24 12:51:21 PM
mr lawson: ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

You know damn well why it wouldn't.


Wow... didn't notice ihatedumbpeople's post there... C'mon, are you telling me you have access to an AllData system and still have such little knowledge of cars that you don't realize that cars from a given model number year start going on sale around August of the previous year?

Whatever dealership, part store, or mechanic shop you work for, I hope to never go there.
 
2010-02-24 12:51:23 PM
Maximum Overdrive anyone?
 
2010-02-24 12:51:29 PM
Ivan Dobski: /sepaku or hari kari?

Same thing.
 
2010-02-24 12:52:34 PM
PsyLord: So is this why we don't have flying cars yet?


No. We don't have flying cars because our retarded nation can't drive on a farking straight road, at only 45 mph, without hitting another goddam car...
 
2010-02-24 12:52:41 PM
ihatedumbpeople: BlackCat23: ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

Which hit the market in '06. Like most models do.(ie: new model years come out in the numerical year before. 07 cars come out in 06, '11 cars come out in '10)

I'm aware of that...just pointing out how small the window had to be for this to happen...if the '07 model was the first ES350 and this happened in 06, that car had to have been damn near brand new...makes you wonder if this was a buggy software glitch or if she's full of crap...


It went on sale iirc the last week of april 06, her incident occurred on October 12th of the same year. So yeah, pretty small window, but not out of the realm of possibility of various electrical things to go wrong, either.


7of7: BlackCat23: that it has MULTIPLE causes(yes, the pedal is a cause, the force feedback part of the drive by wire pedal can wear and stick)is downright negligent.

Which is why I'm guessing the whole controversy is a load of media overreaction and congressional hand wringing to appear competent spurned on by greedy lawyers and people like this lady who are all too ready to claim something happened so they can get on the class action and media appearance gravy train.


While i agree about the lawsuit/congressional biggus dickus stuff, if it is eventually found that there's multiple causes, both physical and electronic, toyota should be held accountable for it. I've been hearing a lot of "this is toyota's pinto moment" after that internal memo about saving a couple hundred mil worked it's way out into the world.
 
2010-02-24 12:52:50 PM
Eddie Adams from Torrance: HansensDisease: After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

I wasn't aware that God controlled the reset pin on embedded processors!

Does that feature come with the car?

God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.


Except now she can testify, and help ensure others don't have the same problem. If it would have only accelerated for 1 or 2 seconds, she would have probably never filed a complaint or have been contacted. If she would have died, she wouldn't have testified.

Seems like she tried everything, and lived to warn others...
 
2010-02-24 12:52:56 PM
Katie98_KT: My parents both have a Prius, and I've driven their car plenty of times. I'm willing to believe that she had trouble putting it into neutral (it has a super weird tiny handle for shifting, and I'm assuming the lexus is the same way).
HOWEVER, let me say this- when you shift the prius, the handle resets to the middle. So she may have been continually trying to push the button in, and freaking out because it kept resetting and not sticking. Especially if it was a new car to her (as people above are saying, her story only works if she had had the car only a month or two), she may never have noticed that happening.

here's a picture:

Also, having grown up driving a stick, I can't imagine putting a car into neutral, slamming the brakes (including emergency brake) and turning off the car won't slow it down.


Actually, the Lexus isn't anything like that at all.
 
2010-02-24 12:53:03 PM
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

The NHTSA contacted the people that currently own the car and they said they bought it with under 3000 miles from the woman in question after the incident, so I doubt there is any fabrication on that part of the issue.
 
2010-02-24 12:53:18 PM
I'd like to buy a car like this. I've always wanted to take out a school bus full of orphans, and with this amazing, magical car I can leave Toyota to pay the bill!

The new Toyota Psyhco!!
 
2010-02-24 12:53:42 PM
bighairyguy: She left out the part where she deliberately drove off a cliff to avoid hitting a busload of nuns and orphans in that version.

forwhomthebagtolls.com
 
2010-02-24 12:53:43 PM
alywa: That car was a nightmare. Numerous times I'd think I was in gear, only to be in neutral. Or, I'd think I was in park, and lift my foot off the brake, only to lurch forward. For those of you who haven't driven one or ridden in one, for reasons only explicable to Toyota, they have a completely non-standard shift / drive selection mechanism.

thank you for proving my point. Some people are just too stupid to operate a car.

The parking brake has a light. If the light is on you're not going anywhere, how hard is that?
 
2010-02-24 12:53:45 PM
Talon: mrshowrules: impaler: If any of this is remotely true, that TWO components of the car could simultaneously fail, the car manufacturer known as Toyota should cease to exist.

While it is impossible to design a throttle system that could never fail, things stick, sensors error. It should be nearly impossible for that to fail at the same time as the brake sensors, which should kill any >5%-10% throttle when >5%-10% braking is applied. And in the 'that should never happen, but hey, people win the lottery even though it is 100 million to one' event that that does happen, the ability to put the car in neutral should not fail.

I am inclined to believe this women isn't 100% honest, and that the above scenario is in fact impossible, because you have to be one incompetent engineer to design a system where the throttle, brakes and shifting don't fail-safe.

But if Toyota isn't immediately releasing a statement to that effect, you have to wonder.

If Toyota hasn't raped and murdered a girl in 1990 wasn't born in the US hasn't done anything wrong, why won't they come out and say it? Their silence is damning!

Bad logic is bad.

I don't think Toyota is telling the whole truth simply because of the stories like this from both men and women where it is obvious it is not a matter of a pedal stuck on a floor matt. But I don't think it is intentional or malicious. The systems were probably designed to fail-safe, but programs glitch and things can go wrong. I think Toyota isn't saying anything because they want to preserve plausible deniability. Even if they think she's nuts and want to shove it in her face exactly how they design it to be fail-safe, it is in their better legal interest to remain silent.


You are misrepersenting my point. All I said it "makes you wonder" why Toyota isn't coming out with a statement regarding this testimony. Your point about why they would do this is certainly possible.
 
2010-02-24 12:53:45 PM
manimal2878: Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

If your car is ramping up in speed, wouldn't you need both hands on the wheel to steer around things and avoid obstacles? I find it incredibly unlikely she could have made a phone call and paid attention to the road enough to avoid wrecking.


Meh, it only made it to a 100mph, shiat I would question what kind of tinker toy engine it had in it that in 6 miles at full throttle it only made it to a 100mph. Fark I regularly drive at those speeds with one hand, the other is either jacking me off or stuffing a Big Mac into my fat face.
 
2010-02-24 12:53:58 PM
Ringringring...

Hello?

OMGWTFBBQ! My car's been haxxored! I'm doing 110 down the interstate and I CAN'T STOP!!!

Is your life insurance current?

:)
 
2010-02-24 12:53:59 PM
AshHousewares18: Is this the thread where I get to brag about my manual transmission F-150 from 1997 and how much more awesome it is than them thar fancy luxury cars with their electronic controls?

Because mechanical stuff never fails, ever.


But when it does, you can often identify the cause.
 
2010-02-24 12:53:59 PM
stewbert: The farking Prius work car gives me fits all the time. Sometimes it's slapstick comedy trying to get the damn thing into drive or park.

Huh?

"Park" isn't on the Prius shifter, you know.
 
2010-02-24 12:54:03 PM
NPR (or BBC World, whatever was on last night) said she used a Bluetooth headset to call her husband.

So she might not have taken her hands off the damn wheel.

/God this judging from my computer chair ITG crap is getting OLD
 
2010-02-24 12:54:03 PM
Katie98_KT: weird shifter knob

Thanks for the better picture. As someone who hadn't drive one before, it was very confusing to me. As I said in my post, the selector in the model I was driving had another setting to the right, an all-electric Eco Mode (good for a mile or so in slow traffic).

Unnecessary and very likely a contributing factor in this whole fiasco.
 
2010-02-24 12:54:59 PM
Story of hers is complete bunk. Throwing a car into reverse at that speed will gernade the transmission, at best. At worst, a RWD car could flip if the driveshaft came loose and pole vaulted the car. Here is a video of a guy racing his mustang and accidentally putting the car in reverse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNLz9E92-FU
 
2010-02-24 12:55:05 PM
cbcs: Actually, the Lexus isn't anything like that at all.

bugger. Sorry, never seen a lexus. Good theory though, right?
 
2010-02-24 12:55:06 PM
Bippal: Kar98: always drive

The only reason, huh?


Well, and you can't hill-start an automatic.
 
2010-02-24 12:55:36 PM
SpectroBoy: One retard claiming she had both feet on the brakes and still couldn't stop the car does NOT make it true. Unless the Toyota has brake by wire, the brake pedal should win.

The car should also not accelerate on its own, but we're not dealing with what should happen here. We're dealing with Toyota.
 
2010-02-24 12:55:44 PM
Chevello: Supposedly, you can shut these pushbutton cars down by holding the button down, but if the software is already freaking out, will it pay any attention to the button? I don't know, because my car has a key (and a stickshift just like a Real ITG) that actually cuts power to the engine electronics to shut the car off, not one of these buttons like an ATX power supp....

Hmm. If you were to hold down the "off" button on the car for five seconds...
 
2010-02-24 12:55:56 PM
No mechanical control of the ignition switch.
No mechanical control of the accelerator.
No mechanical control of the transmission.

I don't care what brand of automobile this is. It looks like a recipe for trouble.
 
2010-02-24 12:56:07 PM
Like I say in all these car threads...
Emergency Kill Switch.
i50.tinypic.com

Problem solved.
 
2010-02-24 12:56:09 PM
Ingaba: hb0mb: In my car, a 2006 bmw, there is no key to turn. you put it into a slot and press a button. much like to make a phone call, you press a button on the steering wheel. I'm willing to bet the lexus is probably comprable to my car.

According to Toyota, if you press the start button and hold it for 2-5 seconds the car will turn off.


WTF? Are they using a Windows PC for their computer?
 
2010-02-24 12:56:39 PM
alywa: Katie98_KT: weird shifter knob

...As someone who hadn't drive one before, it was very confusing to me.


weren't similar wrecks the reason transmission controls were standardized back in the day?
 
2010-02-24 12:56:41 PM
There are people all over the country, who have been convicted and sentenced to multiple year prison terms because of these issues. Vehicular assault and Vehicular homicide are pretty serious felonies. Toyota, Lexus, Perodua, Daihatsu and Scion cars have had these problems for more than a decade. There have been wrecks where people have been killed, and its always been chalked up to speed being the primary factor in the wreck.

One here in my area, was a Scion, brand new, three kids lost their lives on a local connecting highway, going speeds that should have been impossible for the car if it was being driven normally. I remember this one in particular because it happened on the viaduct just above my work and scattered car parts all over our parking lot, which was more than 150 feet away from the initial impact site.

I Wonder how many people have lost their lives or their freedom because of these problems which have just now become public? I wonder how many people are sitting in prison because their defense (that the car was accelerating uncontrollably and the brakes wouldn't work) just didn't fly with the Jury? I wonder how many of these trials had witnesses from the Corporation who testified that these sorts of events were physically impossible and had never happened before?

Seems to me that there is a bigger shiat sandwich here that nobody wants to talk about.
 
2010-02-24 12:57:09 PM
Mr Guy: Honestly, I'm more shocked by the people who act like 100mph on a highway is ridiculously fast and there's no possible way to do anything beyond hanging on for dear life at those kinds of speeds.

100 mph isn't fast when traffic is moving at 95mph. 100mph is quite fast when traffic is moving at 65mph, sorta like driving around a parking lot at 35 mph. It is also quite fast when your car is doing it regardless of your input. Sorta like a freaking nightmare.

Unless I read the story wrong, or it missed some info, she did handle this without crashing.
 
2010-02-24 12:57:21 PM
Approves of actuarial assessment
estb.msn.com
 
2010-02-24 12:57:24 PM
Kar98: Bippal: Kar98: always drive

The only reason, huh?

Well, and you can't hill-start an automatic.


I'll take that bet.
 
2010-02-24 12:57:35 PM
bodyshots: so yeah, your tranny, gas pedal, engine and brakes can all fail at once if the ECU has a bad ROM file or it somehow is corrupted.

Any company that doesn't give the tranny, gas pedal, engine and brakes their own separate ECU, with redundant inter-communication networks, is asking for trouble.
 
2010-02-24 12:58:12 PM
I'm sure glad I have a clutch with a mechanical linkage and a gearshift that has a direct physical linkage to the transmissions internals.

/you deserve to be killed if you drive an automatic
//auto drivers are worst drivers in the world
///One hand on their cell phone, eating a burger with the other, smacking their kids with one foot and steering with their other knee, tailgating all the way.
 
2010-02-24 12:59:05 PM
Little-known fact: Toyota on-board systems were designed by Dr. Chandra--
blueinfinite.com
 
Displayed 50 of 724 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report