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(The Consumerist)   If you think turning off the ignition, standing on the brakes, or putting the car in neutral will stop your out-of-control Toyota or Lexus, boy are you in for an amusing twist   (consumerist.com) divider line 724
    More: Scary, Lexus, Toyota, mats, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, maximum speed, guard rail, tow trucks, overrides  
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45026 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Feb 2010 at 12:21 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



724 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread
 
2010-02-24 08:53:43 AM  
It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

So yeah, apparently that won't help.
 
2010-02-24 08:55:55 AM  
I take off the cruise control, but the car continues to accelerate. To make a long story short, I put the car into all available gears including neutral, but then I put it in reverse and it remains in reverse as the car speeds to over 100 mph down the interstate.

After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop. I pulled it to the left median. With the car stopped and both feet still on the brake, the motor still revved up and down. At 35 mph it would not shut off. Finally, at 33 mph, I was able to turn the engine off.

Without thinking, my husband sat down in the car without the key fob and was able to shift the car into neutral, which he shouldn't have been able to do. When he did that the car actually tried to start itself.


Holy fark.
 
2010-02-24 08:57:15 AM  
Fearing death, she called husband.

driving 100mph in an out of control vehicle she searches for her cell phone and calls her husband. i'm surprised none of the congressmen jumped on this.
 
2010-02-24 08:58:40 AM  
LOLIDRIVESTICKPAD

I always knew automatics were retarded, and this proves it. If it happened to me I'd try and hit the center wall maybe.
 
2010-02-24 09:01:24 AM  
Having heard her testimony a few times I think she's lying.
 
2010-02-24 09:03:11 AM  
doglover: I always knew automatics were retarded, and this proves it. If it happened to me I'd try and hit the center wall maybe.

What amuses me is the people who insist -- INSIST -- that the transmission selector is a direct, mechanical link to the transmission itself. I am no mechanic, but I am willing to bet that in most cars today -- especially relatively high-end cars like Lexus -- this is no longer the case. Everything is electronic; the selector is just an input device.
 
2010-02-24 09:04:37 AM  
floor9: I take off the cruise control, but the car continues to accelerate. To make a long story short, I put the car into all available gears including neutral, but then I put it in reverse and it remains in reverse as the car speeds to over 100 mph down the interstate.

After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop. I pulled it to the left median. With the car stopped and both feet still on the brake, the motor still revved up and down. At 35 mph it would not shut off. Finally, at 33 mph, I was able to turn the engine off.

Without thinking, my husband sat down in the car without the key fob and was able to shift the car into neutral, which he shouldn't have been able to do. When he did that the car actually tried to start itself.

Holy fark.

%100 bullshiat.
 
2010-02-24 09:09:02 AM  
manimal2878: %100 bullshiat.

I don't know about that, man. There are too many complaints to be ignored.

I'm not a mechanic, so the inner workings of these systems is beyond my skill level. But if the throttle is indeed a "throttle by wire" system, and if the transmission is also electronic, then it's not hard to imagine a software failure.

Software-based safety systems that lack active physical backups (I'm not sure of the exact terminology, but the kind of physical safety mechanism where the computer has to constantly work to bypass said safety, and if the computer fails for any reason, the safety is suddenly "unsuppressed" and kicks in) are notoriously unreliable.

The Therac-25 comes to mind.
 
2010-02-24 09:09:41 AM  
This is a) why I like standards and b) why I don't like super complicated electronic control systems.

I want a cable that goes from the gas pedal to the injectors or carburetor and a shaft that goes to the master cylinder.

/has blown break lines while going 35mph
//yay riding quads with no breaks for teaching me something
/like not panicing
 
2010-02-24 09:14:15 AM  
Let's see - the government pours BILLIONS into the domestic auto industry then TA-DA - their major competition gets raked over the coals over recall issues.

Sorry, lady - I know the UAW is paying you a lot of money to testi-lie but I'm smellin' a conspiracy!
*adjusts tin foil hat*
 
2010-02-24 09:14:59 AM  
I have a 2006 Toyota Tacoma and have no fear about this happening.

Of course, my truck is a manual transmission. Neutral is REALLY neutral.
 
2010-02-24 09:20:34 AM  
After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

I wasn't aware that God controlled the reset pin on embedded processors!

Does that feature come with the car?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2010-02-24 09:20:59 AM  
floor9

"Mechanical interlock" might be the term you want. I worked on a product with FDA fry-your-eyes class laser beams inside. If you opened the door a switch in the latch turned off power.
 
2010-02-24 09:22:12 AM  
floor9: It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus about almost anything, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral I've known that since I was three years old!. I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

FTFY.
 
2010-02-24 09:23:58 AM  
7of7: Having heard her testimony a few times I think she's lying.

This. She's the only person i've heard of so far to say that neutral didn't work.
 
2010-02-24 09:25:47 AM  
farm1.static.flickr.com

approves
 
2010-02-24 09:27:42 AM  
ZAZ: "Mechanical interlock" might be the term you want.

Sounds right. I thought there was another term specifically to describe a system where safety system #1 was designed for the sole purpose of always stopping a process, regardless of conditions. Safety system #2 was designed to stop a process based on set criteria, and also to override safety system #1. In the event that safety system #2 failed, it would fail to stop safety system #1, which would in turn stop the process. Not unlike a dead man switch.

Petit_Merdeux: FTFY.

So true.
 
2010-02-24 09:28:35 AM  
benlonghair: I want a cable that goes from the gas pedal to the injectors or carburetor

The throttle cable in my 70's era Pontiac Ventura got jammed once. The butterfly valve was full open and it was not much fun getting the car to a stop.
 
2010-02-24 09:32:05 AM  
floor9: manimal2878: %100 bullshiat.

I don't know about that, man. There are too many complaints to be ignored.

I'm not a mechanic, so the inner workings of these systems is beyond my skill level. But if the throttle is indeed a "throttle by wire" system, and if the transmission is also electronic, then it's not hard to imagine a software failure.

Software-based safety systems that lack active physical backups (I'm not sure of the exact terminology, but the kind of physical safety mechanism where the computer has to constantly work to bypass said safety, and if the computer fails for any reason, the safety is suddenly "unsuppressed" and kicks in) are notoriously unreliable.

The Therac-25 comes to mind.


Not so much that it could be possible, but that she had time to call her husband, and the car wanted to start itself again and only by the grace of god did it stop six miles after her prayers.
 
2010-02-24 09:35:00 AM  
As the sysadmin for the contractor that runs NHTSA's call center I'm not getting a kick out of this. The call tsunami is out of hand and some of the callers are beyond panic.

Toyota screwed the pooch on this.
 
2010-02-24 09:37:09 AM  
Anything software controlled can have problems. Maybe they used the same programmers who wrote the flight control systems for the predator UAV (new window).

(from the link about the cause of a crash of a predator: A second procedural error of note occurred when the pilot accidentally activated a program that erased the internal random access memory on board the aircraft during a flight. That this was even possible to do during a flight is notable in itself and suggests the relatively ad hoc software development process occurring for these systems)
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2010-02-24 09:38:36 AM  
floor9

I've seen software dead man switches, e.g. a process that ran at intervals to set an "I'm alive" flag monitored by hardware. I'm a little wary of them because they don't nececssarily test the right failure condition.

The "I'm alive" flag was a hardware register on a system running VxWorks. As long as the heartbeat task ran the system wouldn't reset. That was no guarantee the system worked, only that a high priority task wasn't sucking up all the CPU.

A networked filesystem protocol checked for server dead by doing a null RPC. A common failure mode was a server thread locked up trying to handle a real request with another thread idle and ready to handle null requests. The system did not have any request timeouts on other calls because the null RPC polling method was supposed to do the job. Servers often failed worse than dead. They would say "I'm alive" without ever completing requests. Humans used to make a similar mistake, thinking that a server must be up because "ping" worked.
 
2010-02-24 09:39:44 AM  
manimal2878: Not so much that it could be possible, but that she had time to call her husband, and the car wanted to start itself again and only by the grace of god did it stop six miles after her prayers.

Oh, ok. That I buy. In that case, look for this to be blamed on Obama, "the liberals", and "the atheists" shortly after the midterms.
 
2010-02-24 09:49:02 AM  
HansensDisease: The throttle cable in my 70's era Pontiac Ventura got jammed once.

But you had mechanical connections to the brakes, e brake and transmission. As opposed to the possibility of software going into meltdown and nothing responding.

Although I suppose the brakes in a Lexus are probably mechanical with power assist.
 
2010-02-24 09:52:44 AM  
HansensDisease: After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

I wasn't aware that God controlled the reset pin on embedded processors!

Does that feature come with the car?


God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.
 
2010-02-24 09:58:29 AM  
bongmiester: driving 100mph in an out of control vehicle she searches for her cell phone and calls her husband. i'm surprised none of the congressmen jumped on this.

manimal2878: Not so much that it could be possible, but that she had time to call her husband, and the car wanted to start itself again and only by the grace of god did it stop six miles after her prayers.

You know how I know you two didn't read the article?
 
2010-02-24 10:01:08 AM  
Jimmy Devil Rocket Science: bongmiester: driving 100mph in an out of control vehicle she searches for her cell phone and calls her husband. i'm surprised none of the congressmen jumped on this.

manimal2878: Not so much that it could be possible, but that she had time to call her husband, and the car wanted to start itself again and only by the grace of god did it stop six miles after her prayers.

You know how I know you two didn't read the article?


You know how I know your reading comprehension sucks?

Fearing death, she called husband. "I knew he could not help me, but I wanted to hear his voice one more time," she recalled. "After six miles later, God intervened," and the car began to slow on it own, though the engine continued to rev itself in cycles. When the vehicle had finally slowed to around 35 mph, she was able to stop the engine.
 
2010-02-24 10:06:02 AM  
benlonghair: HansensDisease: The throttle cable in my 70's era Pontiac Ventura got jammed once.

But you had mechanical connections to the brakes, e brake and transmission. As opposed to the possibility of software going into meltdown and nothing responding.

Although I suppose the brakes in a Lexus are probably mechanical with power assist.


A problem pointed out on a car board I'm on is that if the engine is at full throttle, if you pump the brakes once or twice, you will lose vacuum assist (and there won't be vacuum since you're at full throttle), so you'll lose the power assist, making it quite a bit harder to provide full braking force. You'll then basically toast your brakes without actually stopping the vehicle...


// Wonder what the transmission is supposed to do if you break off whatever stops you from going into reverse while you're driving forwards...
 
2010-02-24 10:08:16 AM  
I believe that something really bad happened to this lady's car. I believe that she believes the story she's telling. But I also believe that the combination of panic at the time, the attention she's gotten since then, and a potential payday in the future have significantly altered the story that she believes is true.
 
2010-02-24 10:09:22 AM  
Satan stopped the car...God wants Heaven packed with fresh souls.
 
2010-02-24 10:10:05 AM  
Eddie Adams from Torrance: God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

You forget that it's all part of his plan. His ways are beyond your understanding.
 
2010-02-24 10:12:12 AM  
I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.
 
2010-02-24 10:15:12 AM  
floor9: It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

So yeah, apparently that won't help.


I am naming the neighbor's Toyota "Carrie".
 
2010-02-24 10:16:16 AM  
Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

If your car is ramping up in speed, wouldn't you need both hands on the wheel to steer around things and avoid obstacles? I find it incredibly unlikely she could have made a phone call and paid attention to the road enough to avoid wrecking.
 
2010-02-24 10:17:52 AM  
manimal2878
%100 bullshiat.

Especially that part about God her invisible sky wizard stopping the car.

/game on!
 
2010-02-24 10:21:07 AM  
I_C_Weener: floor9: It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

So yeah, apparently that won't help.

I am naming the neighbor's Toyota "Carrie".


Wait. I meant "Christine". Carrie was the teenager with PMS problems. Christine was the haunted car.
 
2010-02-24 10:26:26 AM  
I gotta admit, I've been one of the "Just put it in neutral, asspipe!" guys since the very start, but as more and more evidence comes out making it apparently an electronic, not a mechanical, issue in these cases I definitely was wrong.

I still think it would be a better world if standards for getting a driver's license were tougher - especially requiring training for handling normal day-to-day emergencies that arise with a machine as incredibly complex as a car -- but when the computer running the engine tells the computer running the transmission to go fark itself and there's no physical link between anything I'm not sure what the best option would be.
 
2010-02-24 10:33:28 AM  
That's not really how cars work. For one, the parking/emergency brake is not electronic: It is a galvanized cable connected to the rear brakes.

I have a hard time envisioning an entirely electronic transmission selector, too.

But the ignition? Really? I suppose there might be some level of plausibility as it could be a keyless fob-start system. But in that case, why not just toss the fob out of the window? Also, don't all cars like that have a kill switch?

There's very little about this story that rings to me with the aura of truth. Especially when she talks about whipping out her cell phone while scorching pavement at 100mph in a runaway car and chatting with her husband. Because, really, if that were the case? She probably did deserve to wreck the car into an immovable object off the road, as she's obviously demonstrating reckless disregard for other people anyway.

i49.tinypic.com
 
2010-02-24 10:36:47 AM  
TwistedIvory: That's not really how cars work. For one, the parking/emergency brake is not electronic: It is a galvanized cable connected to the rear brakes.

I have a hard time envisioning an entirely electronic transmission selector, too.

But the ignition? Really? I suppose there might be some level of plausibility as it could be a keyless fob-start system. But in that case, why not just toss the fob out of the window? Also, don't all cars like that have a kill switch?

There's very little about this story that rings to me with the aura of truth. Especially when she talks about whipping out her cell phone while scorching pavement at 100mph in a runaway car and chatting with her husband. Because, really, if that were the case? She probably did deserve to wreck the car into an immovable object off the road, as she's obviously demonstrating reckless disregard for other people anyway.


But a cop died while driving his wife's car, so its all true. All of it. Even the part where the Japanese installed ninja jumps out of the glovebox to surprise the driver at the perfect moment. Its really Japan's revenge for WWII.

How do I know about the ninjas? Well, its simple really. Japan must have midgets yet you never see them. I posit that all their midgets have been trained as ninjas and have been hiding in Toyota glove boxes for years only now making their move to strike at the soccer moms. Think about it.
 
2010-02-24 10:44:18 AM  
too much electronic crap on cars to go wrong. keep it simple stupid
 
2010-02-24 10:53:31 AM  
TwistedIvory: That's not really how cars work. For one, the parking/emergency brake is not electronic: It is a galvanized cable connected to the rear brakes.

I have a hard time envisioning an entirely electronic transmission selector, too.

But the ignition? Really? I suppose there might be some level of plausibility as it could be a keyless fob-start system. But in that case, why not just toss the fob out of the window? Also, don't all cars like that have a kill switch?

There's very little about this story that rings to me with the aura of truth. Especially when she talks about whipping out her cell phone while scorching pavement at 100mph in a runaway car and chatting with her husband. Because, really, if that were the case? She probably did deserve to wreck the car into an immovable object off the road, as she's obviously demonstrating reckless disregard for other people anyway.


I'm not sure about the Lexus ES, but there's no hand brake near the gear selector. My wife's new VW tiguan has an electronic switch for the (electrically activated) parking brake. Also, if you have toasted your brake pads completely, even a parking brake won't stop you.

I believe a lot of the key-fob cars require you to hold down the start button for 3-5 seconds to turn the car off...
 
2010-02-24 11:08:59 AM  
floor9: I thought there was another term specifically to describe a system where safety system #1

The term is "failsafe" or "ESD"(emergency shutdown).

And yeah, this story sounds like a load of bull to me. Even the newer cars have to have a direct connection to the transmission from the gear shift, if they didn't you couldn't move the car with a dead battery by shifting it into neutral and pushing.

What she MIGHT have done is rake the gearshift back and forth hoping for something to happen and not letting it settle into any gear.
 
2010-02-24 11:10:03 AM  
TwistedIvory: Especially when she talks about whipping out her cell phone while scorching pavement at 100mph in a runaway car and chatting with her husband.

That's not what happened. According to TFA, she used her handsfree Bluetooth system. For all we know she had to press one button to dial. Maybe it was even voice-response. Some systems respond well to stressed, screaming voices, others do not.
 
2010-02-24 11:10:41 AM  
TwistedIvory: as it could be a keyless fob-start system. But in that case, why not just toss the fob out of the window?

That won't work. On my prius, if the car is already started and the fob goes away, the car still works until you put it in park and turn it off. (I've done that. My wife had the key and I dropped her off at the front of the store and went to park the car. I realized then that I couldn't lock the door with the push button on the outside of the car because I didn't have the key.
 
2010-02-24 11:12:49 AM  
At any rate, this is why I drove a Honda Fit with a 5-speed manual transmission. Even with power brakes and power steering, my car is relatively easy to handle if something like this happened. Since my transmission *is* a direct mechanical link (and for that matter, so is my clutch pedal), I have several options to disconnect a runaway engine from the wheels.

And frankly, if my 42-mpg engine floored itself in 5th gear, I wouldn't notice for a few miles anyway. :(
 
2010-02-24 11:16:30 AM  
FTA: "After six miles later, God intervened," and the car began to slow on it own, though the engine continued to rev itself in cycles."

Why does God get all the credit for stopping the car, but none of the blame for starting it in the first place?

Did God want her to buy a new car/underwear?

How does she know this wasn't some kind of bet between God and Jesus?

Jesus: Hey dad, let's make this woman's car go 180kph, I've got $10 that says she still uses her cell phone.

God: You're on.
 
2010-02-24 11:29:12 AM  
TheBitterest: Why does God get all the credit for stopping the car, but none of the blame for starting it in the first place?

Because if people did that, they'd think it through and stop believing in God. I always have to stop myself from strangling someone when they say something like that.

That being said, this is the kind of story that freaks me the fark out. When I was like 5, we had the starter, I think, die on one of our cars. Die after we got it, ironically, to an auto shop where we were taking the second car in need of work. My mother turned the key, got out of the car, and then realized the car was still on. Freaked me the fark out and since then I've always been really freaked out by stuff like this.

/cool story, bro
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2010-02-24 11:30:15 AM  
floor9

Are you sure your clutch is a direct mechanical link? My last two cars have had a master-slave cylinder pair that malfunctioned leaving the clutch engaged full time.
 
2010-02-24 11:37:51 AM  
floor9: It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

So yeah, apparently that won't help.


I did post something to this effect early on before someone pointed out that the switch to Neutral was not a fully manual procedure.
 
2010-02-24 11:38:13 AM  
TheBitterest: FTA: "After six miles later, God intervened," and the car began to slow on it own, though the engine continued to rev itself in cycles."

Why does God get all the credit for stopping the car, but none of the blame for starting it in the first place?


that was teh devil's work
 
2010-02-24 11:38:39 AM  
ZAZ: Are you sure your clutch is a direct mechanical link?

No. But I like the illusion in case my primary defense of "popping it out of gear" fails.
 
2010-02-24 11:39:35 AM  
floor9: doglover: I always knew automatics were retarded, and this proves it. If it happened to me I'd try and hit the center wall maybe.

What amuses me is the people who insist -- INSIST -- that the transmission selector is a direct, mechanical link to the transmission itself. I am no mechanic, but I am willing to bet that in most cars today -- especially relatively high-end cars like Lexus -- this is no longer the case. Everything is electronic; the selector is just an input device.


I'm pretty sure it is manual on my 2001 Grand Prix. Not so sure about my 2006 Honday Odessey. There should be a list on the intertubes somewhere.
 
2010-02-24 11:47:02 AM  
aimtastic: I believe that something really bad happened to this lady's car. I believe that she believes the story she's telling. But I also believe that the combination of panic at the time, the attention she's gotten since then, and a potential payday in the future have significantly altered the story that she believes is true.

Memory is a very fluid thing. You can fail to remember one thing properly. Vaguely think you remember it and then reinforce it through repetition that the memory becomes so strong you are positive. It is not a deliberate process. She could be quite honestly be misremembering this. In my experience, and please no one kill me for saying this, this is slightly more common with women.

Now having said that, I haven't heard her testimony and it could very well be completely true. I'm going to listen to it now.
 
2010-02-24 11:57:08 AM  
If any of this is remotely true, that TWO components of the car could simultaneously fail, the car manufacturer known as Toyota should cease to exist.

While it is impossible to design a throttle system that could never fail, things stick, sensors error. It should be nearly impossible for that to fail at the same time as the brake sensors, which should kill any >5%-10% throttle when >5%-10% braking is applied. And in the 'that should never happen, but hey, people win the lottery even though it is 100 million to one' event that that does happen, the ability to put the car in neutral should not fail.

I am inclined to believe this women isn't 100% honest, and that the above scenario is in fact impossible, because you have to be one incompetent engineer to design a system where the throttle, brakes and shifting don't fail-safe.
 
2010-02-24 11:57:22 AM  
benlonghair: But you had mechanical connections to the brakes, e brake and transmission. As opposed to the possibility of software going into meltdown and nothing responding.

Although I suppose the brakes in a Lexus are probably mechanical with power assist.


I practically had to stand on the brakes though. Meanwhile, steering onto the breakdown lane as not to be eaten by trucks. I got it into neutral, opened the hood, yanked on the cable and drove home.

Cellphone lady probably panicked and didn't/couldn't hammer the brake pedal down. She probably couldn't get it to shift and the processor didn't reset for a minute. She did say she traveled 6 miles, so the timing is about right.
 
2010-02-24 11:57:39 AM  
mrshowrules: aimtastic: I believe that something really bad happened to this lady's car. I believe that she believes the story she's telling. But I also believe that the combination of panic at the time, the attention she's gotten since then, and a potential payday in the future have significantly altered the story that she believes is true.

Memory is a very fluid thing. You can fail to remember one thing properly. Vaguely think you remember it and then reinforce it through repetition that the memory becomes so strong you are positive. It is not a deliberate process. She could be quite honestly be misremembering this. In my experience, and please no one kill me for saying this, this is slightly more common with women.

Now having said that, I haven't heard her testimony and it could very well be completely true. I'm going to listen to it now.


Just watched the video and I completely believe her.
 
2010-02-24 12:00:01 PM  
impaler: If any of this is remotely true, that TWO components of the car could simultaneously fail, the car manufacturer known as Toyota should cease to exist.

While it is impossible to design a throttle system that could never fail, things stick, sensors error. It should be nearly impossible for that to fail at the same time as the brake sensors, which should kill any >5%-10% throttle when >5%-10% braking is applied. And in the 'that should never happen, but hey, people win the lottery even though it is 100 million to one' event that that does happen, the ability to put the car in neutral should not fail.

I am inclined to believe this women isn't 100% honest, and that the above scenario is in fact impossible, because you have to be one incompetent engineer to design a system where the throttle, brakes and shifting don't fail-safe.


But if Toyota isn't immediately releasing a statement to that effect, you have to wonder.
 
2010-02-24 12:02:43 PM  
Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

In my car, a 2006 bmw, there is no key to turn. you put it into a slot and press a button. much like to make a phone call, you press a button on the steering wheel. I'm willing to bet the lexus is probably comprable to my car.
 
2010-02-24 12:13:31 PM  
mrshowrules: impaler: If any of this is remotely true, that TWO components of the car could simultaneously fail, the car manufacturer known as Toyota should cease to exist.

While it is impossible to design a throttle system that could never fail, things stick, sensors error. It should be nearly impossible for that to fail at the same time as the brake sensors, which should kill any >5%-10% throttle when >5%-10% braking is applied. And in the 'that should never happen, but hey, people win the lottery even though it is 100 million to one' event that that does happen, the ability to put the car in neutral should not fail.

I am inclined to believe this women isn't 100% honest, and that the above scenario is in fact impossible, because you have to be one incompetent engineer to design a system where the throttle, brakes and shifting don't fail-safe.

But if Toyota isn't immediately releasing a statement to that effect, you have to wonder.


If Toyota hasn't raped and murdered a girl in 1990 wasn't born in the US hasn't done anything wrong, why won't they come out and say it? Their silence is damning!

Bad logic is bad.

I don't think Toyota is telling the whole truth simply because of the stories like this from both men and women where it is obvious it is not a matter of a pedal stuck on a floor matt. But I don't think it is intentional or malicious. The systems were probably designed to fail-safe, but programs glitch and things can go wrong. I think Toyota isn't saying anything because they want to preserve plausible deniability. Even if they think she's nuts and want to shove it in her face exactly how they design it to be fail-safe, it is in their better legal interest to remain silent.
 
2010-02-24 12:16:17 PM  
hb0mb: In my car, a 2006 bmw, there is no key to turn. you put it into a slot and press a button. much like to make a phone call, you press a button on the steering wheel. I'm willing to bet the lexus is probably comprable to my car.

According to Toyota, if you press the start button and hold it for 2-5 seconds the car will turn off.
 
2010-02-24 12:24:04 PM  
Which is why I'll always drive a manual.
 
2010-02-24 12:25:46 PM  
floor9: It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

I've had a car with a sticky accellerator, nuetral did work. Hoever, I have no idea what I would do if that didn't work, and neither did using the brakes or turning the car off.
 
2010-02-24 12:25:52 PM  
Ingaba: hb0mb: In my car, a 2006 bmw, there is no key to turn. you put it into a slot and press a button. much like to make a phone call, you press a button on the steering wheel. I'm willing to bet the lexus is probably comprable to my car.

According to Toyota, if you press the start button and hold it for 2-5 seconds the car will turn off.


I have to go to the "start" menu in order to shut this thing down? Who designed this monstrosity!?
 
2010-02-24 12:26:26 PM  
Eddie Adams from Torrance: HansensDisease: After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

I wasn't aware that God controlled the reset pin on embedded processors!

Does that feature come with the car?

God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.


hiscrivener.files.wordpress.com

So, does Toyota adjust for different deities/agnostic/atheist?

/hot like Carrie Underwood
 
2010-02-24 12:26:50 PM  
aimtastic: I believe that something really bad happened to this lady's car. I believe that she believes the story she's telling. But I also believe that the combination of panic at the time, the attention she's gotten since then, and a potential payday in the future have significantly altered the story that she believes is true.

THIS
 
2010-02-24 12:26:51 PM  
I don't believe her.
 
2010-02-24 12:27:09 PM  
floor9 2010-02-24 08:53:43 AM

It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

So yeah, apparently that won't help
.

Luckily, there's always an Internet Smart Guy to correct people!

Yeah. So apparently you believe this story.
C'mon. She's a woman, she can't drive, and concocts this BS story to avoid the embarrasment of her own incompetence.
 
2010-02-24 12:27:13 PM  
impaler: I have to go to the "start" menu in order to shut this thing down? Who designed this monstrosity!?

It's the same as in your car? To start the car, and to shut it down, you use the same key in the same lock, no?
 
2010-02-24 12:28:03 PM  
"After six miles later, God intervened,"

God is omnipotent, but sometimes he's just busy. He'll get to you when he has the time.
 
2010-02-24 12:28:32 PM  
To those railing on her for calling her husband, you should probably watch the video of her testimony. She used the built in bluetooth in the lexus, which is voice activated. Wouldn't be my first choice of actions, but hey, everyone's different.

Anyway, the thing that really bothers me about the entire toyota ordeal is, it's multiple things causing the issue. That it happened in the first place(unintended acceleration)is unacceptable, that it has MULTIPLE causes(yes, the pedal is a cause, the force feedback part of the drive by wire pedal can wear and stick)is downright negligent.

And yes, for the record, many new cars, particularly luxury cars and hybrids, have electronically controlled transmission as well. Sometimes throwing it in N just does nothing, and the fact that the car lurched forward when her husband tried to move it doesn't seem impossible to me.


/a mechanic(though not in a few years, medical stuff)
//have some friends who work for toyota/lexus
///they're very busy these days, and some are changing jobs
////they have good personal reputations, and no longer wish to be associated with the company
 
2010-02-24 12:28:38 PM  
Kar98: impaler: I have to go to the "start" menu in order to shut this thing down? Who designed this monstrosity!?

It's the same as in your car? To start the car, and to shut it down, you use the same key in the same lock, no?


Look at the lower left hand corner of your computer screen. It's an old joke.
 
2010-02-24 12:29:26 PM  
TwistedIvory: For one, the parking/emergency brake is not electronic: It is a galvanized cable connected to the rear brakes.

Sure, but what motorist hasn't accidentally started driving with the hand brake still engaged? Mitch Hedberg wasn't wrong when he called it "an emergency make-the-car-smell-funny lever."
 
2010-02-24 12:29:44 PM  
benlonghair: This is a) why I like standards and b) why I don't like super complicated electronic control systems.

I want a cable that goes from the gas pedal to the injectors or carburetor and a shaft that goes to the master cylinder.

/has blown break lines while going 35mph
//yay riding quads with no breaks for teaching me something
/like not panicing


stephen king could write a book about this. it's as though toyota is trying to kill us or something. i love my ranger but damn, that won't keep me safe from the toyotas on the road.
 
2010-02-24 12:30:11 PM  
img1.fark.net Old lady does not know how to drive her car
 
2010-02-24 12:30:21 PM  
Starting to think manuals are still the way to go... I almost switched to the dark side but now, fark that.
 
2010-02-24 12:30:30 PM  
6 MILES OF TERROR
 
2010-02-24 12:30:44 PM  
TwistedIvory: That's not really how cars work.

TI, it's not Christine, but this:

i46.tinypic.com

/didn't not know Dr. King directed that turd himself
 
2010-02-24 12:31:02 PM  
www.cinemovies.fr

/unamused
 
2010-02-24 12:31:29 PM  
Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

i911.photobucket.com
 
Ant
2010-02-24 12:31:29 PM  
doglover: LOLIDRIVESTICKPAD

I always knew automatics were retarded, and this proves it. If it happened to me I'd try and hit the center wall maybe.


Yep. Manual transmission FTW!
 
2010-02-24 12:32:23 PM  
If this happened to me, I'd just crawl out the sunroof and use my peener as a lasso to rope a streetlight and swing to safety. Then I'd use my lasso-weenie again to rescue all of the cute female drivers that were at least 18. Then I'd take them all out on my yacht. Then I'd have lunch. Then I'd have sex with all of the 18+ year old rescued females with my long Madonna-arm-like schlong.
 
2010-02-24 12:32:27 PM  
I'd just like to say that the 1983 movie "Christine" sucked out loud. Especially if you've read the book.
 
2010-02-24 12:32:44 PM  
Does Fred Flintstone's car have this problem?
 
2010-02-24 12:32:45 PM  
floor9: INSIST -- that the transmission selector is a direct, mechanical link to the transmission itself. I am no mechanic, but I am willing to bet that in most cars today -- especially relatively high-end cars like Lexus -- this is no longer the case. Everything is electronic; the selector is just an input device.

/Drives a checy s-10.
it has direct linkage.
5 speed.
clutch.
//neighbor has a Lexus.
I fear riding with her.
///she loves to yak on the cell phone while driving, too.
 
2010-02-24 12:33:19 PM  
She's so paniced that she calls her husband to say goodbye forever and yet can remember to the mph when her car started to function normally.

Hmmm...
 
2010-02-24 12:33:40 PM  
Must have been the Kyle Busch edition.
 
2010-02-24 12:34:04 PM  
Eddie Adams from Torrance: HansensDisease: After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

I wasn't aware that God controlled the reset pin on embedded processors!

Does that feature come with the car?

God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.



Maybe that's what is meant when someone wishes you "God's speed"
 
2010-02-24 12:34:06 PM  
So the car drives when you put it in neutral. Did the labels next to stick move ?
 
2010-02-24 12:34:49 PM  
For the record - Consumerist trolls are far inferior to Fark trolls
 
2010-02-24 12:35:21 PM  
medius: TwistedIvory: That's not really how cars work.

TI, it's not Christine, but this:



/didn't not know Dr. King directed that turd himself


I was thinking more of Dennis Weaver in Duel, back in 1971.
 
2010-02-24 12:35:28 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

Most cars from [model year X] are available for sale in the late August/early September of [calendar year X-1].
 
2010-02-24 12:35:44 PM  
Coming on a Bicycle: So the car drives when you put it in neutral. Did the labels next to stick move ?

The premise is that the transmission is fly by wire and unresponsive to her attempts to change gears.
 
2010-02-24 12:35:48 PM  
floor9: It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

So yeah, apparently that won't help.


I drive a stick shift. I guarantee it'll work.
 
2010-02-24 12:35:51 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

Which hit the market in '06. Like most models do.(ie: new model years come out in the numerical year before. 07 cars come out in 06, '11 cars come out in '10)
 
2010-02-24 12:35:59 PM  
GAT_00: Because if people did that, they'd think it through and stop believing in God. I always have to stop myself from strangling someone when they say something like that.

Her car was hurtling down the highway and nothing that she could do could bring it under control. Then, randomly the car slowed down despite continued signs that the thing was f*cked up. Believe it or not, people reacting to unexplained events that without hours and hours of scientific thought aren't doing it just to piss off thin-skinned douche bags on the internet.

Lady: "Thank God I'm not dead."
ITA: "F*CK YOU YOU STUPID C*NT GOD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT WHY DON'T YOU PUT MORE THOUGHT INTO IT YOU FAT COW!!!"

Get a grip on yourselves.
 
2010-02-24 12:36:06 PM  
manimal2878: Jimmy Devil Rocket Science: bongmiester: driving 100mph in an out of control vehicle she searches for her cell phone and calls her husband. i'm surprised none of the congressmen jumped on this.

manimal2878: Not so much that it could be possible, but that she had time to call her husband, and the car wanted to start itself again and only by the grace of god did it stop six miles after her prayers.

You know how I know you two didn't read the article?

You know how I know your reading comprehension sucks?

Fearing death, she called husband. "I knew he could not help me, but I wanted to hear his voice one more time," she recalled. "After six miles later, God intervened," and the car began to slow on it own, though the engine continued to rev itself in cycles. When the vehicle had finally slowed to around 35 mph, she was able to stop the engine.


You know how I know your reading comprehension sucks?

FTFA: I called my husband on the blue tooth phone system.
 
2010-02-24 12:36:41 PM  
mantabulous: Eddie Adams from Torrance: God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

You forget that it's all part of his plan. His ways are beyond your understanding.


Really. At that speed, she covered the distance in under 4 minutes. Between the Earth-Heaven Dial-Up Time-Delay (she used her cell phone) and standard customer request queues, I'd say she got pretty good service. It's not like she had a T3 direct connection and a dedicated Prayer Server.

FTA: I figure the car is going to go its maximum speed and I was going to have to put the car into the upcoming guard rail in order to prevent killing anyone else

That made me think she'd already taken out someone on the road.
 
2010-02-24 12:36:44 PM  
The farking Prius work car gives me fits all the time. Sometimes it's slapstick comedy trying to get the damn thing into drive or park. It seems to get easily "confused". It isn't even part of the recall (2007), but if this womans Lexus was anything like this Prius, I believe her.
 
2010-02-24 12:37:36 PM  
Back in the 1980s there was a massive panic over Audis that exhibited "Sudden Acceleration Syndrome". Thousands of compliants, lawsuits, and a huge hit piece on Sixty Minutes with stories of cars driving themselves into swimming pools, through garage doors, and so forth.

So the DOT did a massive study on "Sudden Acceleration Syndrome", only to conlude that the most likely cause of "Sudden Acceleration Syndrome is "pedal misapplication".
 
2010-02-24 12:37:46 PM  
voodoowizard: Starting to think manuals are still the way to go... I almost switched to the dark side modern age but now, fark that.

FIFY
 
2010-02-24 12:37:54 PM  
Now we know what happened to her:

www.freewebs.com
 
2010-02-24 12:37:57 PM  
When he did that the car actually tried to start itself.
Must be the new Toyota Satan.
 
2010-02-24 12:38:11 PM  
BlackCat23: ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

Which hit the market in '06. Like most models do.(ie: new model years come out in the numerical year before. 07 cars come out in 06, '11 cars come out in '10)


I'm aware of that...just pointing out how small the window had to be for this to happen...if the '07 model was the first ES350 and this happened in 06, that car had to have been damn near brand new...makes you wonder if this was a buggy software glitch or if she's full of crap...
 
2010-02-24 12:38:14 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

Doesn't model year xxxx always come out in year xxxx-1?
 
2010-02-24 12:38:18 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

It was new IIRC, and the '07 model year is 'new' in '06
 
2010-02-24 12:38:18 PM  
aimtastic: I believe that something really bad happened to this lady's car. I believe that she believes the story she's telling. But I also believe that the combination of panic at the time, the attention she's gotten since then, and a potential payday in the future have significantly altered the story that she believes is true.

THIS

I know how my own perception of an event can be altered depending upon the circumstances, and I know how stories tend to be a bit more dramatic than reality when an event is particularly unexpected, jarring, or emotional/stressful. I hear this quite a bit with people who were in severe downbursts or weak tornadoes (both events can be stressful and rare for the person to experience, and the stories tend to be a bit exaggerated relative to reality), though that's not to say that the people are lying. Indeed, I'm sure they think they are correct, and they don't have malicious intent; instead, their perception of reality was modified by stress and their emotional state at the time of the event.
 
2010-02-24 12:38:32 PM  
Emotional appeals should be forbidden in Congressional testimonies. Bring us the facts, not your "omfg, God stopped my car, I was terrified."

What is probably a very real problem is being taken advantage of by people who have no business on the road and no concept of personal responsibility. The plural of anecdote is not data, unless you are presenting these anecdotes to Congress.
 
2010-02-24 12:39:11 PM  
Is this the thread where I get to brag about my manual transmission F-150 from 1997 and how much more awesome it is than them thar fancy luxury cars with their electronic controls?

Because mechanical stuff never fails, ever.
 
2010-02-24 12:39:34 PM  
I would have swerved it into some panhandlers or Courtney Love.
 
2010-02-24 12:39:36 PM  
Why is it always old people who claimed to have done everything technically available to stop the car but they still cannot program a vcr? I call panicky shenanigans/selective recall/insurance dodge

/wotsavcr
 
2010-02-24 12:39:36 PM  
For those above who don't believe a car can have a fly-by-wire transmission, one of my neighbor's tractors has one. Working in the fields last summer, tractor just stopped. Would reverse but wouldn't go forward. Electro-hydraulic actuation is not needed in farm equipment transmissions.

K. I. S. S.
 
2010-02-24 12:40:47 PM  
TheBitterest: Why does God get all the credit for stopping the car, but none of the blame for starting it in the first place?
pages.suddenlink.net
 
2010-02-24 12:41:06 PM  
Pssh, n00b. Ctrl+Alt+Delete always works.
 
2010-02-24 12:41:08 PM  
That why I drive this.. 4 speed, CLUTCH, and Battery Shut OFFSwitch in Floor!
i585.photobucket.com//">
 
2010-02-24 12:41:41 PM  
With the car stopped and both feet still on the brake, the motor still revved up and down. At 35 mph it would not shut off. Finally, at 33 mph, I was able to turn the engine off.

if the car was "stopped", how was it going 35 mph?
 
2010-02-24 12:41:47 PM  
manimal2878: Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

If your car is ramping up in speed, wouldn't you need both hands on the wheel to steer around things and avoid obstacles? I find it incredibly unlikely she could have made a phone call and paid attention to the road enough to avoid wrecking.


She was driving a Lexus ES350. It has Bluetooth.

Calling her husband didn't involve digging a cell phone out or hammering buttons, it was as simple as holding in a button on the radio and saying, "Call John" (or whatever his name is).
 
2010-02-24 12:41:48 PM  
BlackCat23: that it has MULTIPLE causes(yes, the pedal is a cause, the force feedback part of the drive by wire pedal can wear and stick)is downright negligent.

Which is why I'm guessing the whole controversy is a load of media overreaction and congressional hand wringing to appear competent spurned on by greedy lawyers and people like this lady who are all too ready to claim something happened so they can get on the class action and media appearance gravy train.
 
2010-02-24 12:41:51 PM  
factoryconnection: Her car was hurtling down the highway and nothing that she could do could bring it under control. Then, randomly the car slowed down despite continued signs that the thing was f*cked up. Believe it or not, people reacting to unexplained events that without hours and hours of scientific thought aren't doing it just to piss off thin-skinned douche bags on the internet.

Lady: "Thank God I'm not dead."
ITA: "F*CK YOU YOU STUPID C*NT GOD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT WHY DON'T YOU PUT MORE THOUGHT INTO IT YOU FAT COW!!!"

Get a grip on yourselves.


Actually no one is griping on her saying "thank god!" They are commenting on the fact that she attributes god to slowing the car. The point being it doesn't take hours of scientific thought to reason "if god gets credit for stopping it, why not starting it?"
 
2010-02-24 12:42:13 PM  
AfterTheGoldRush: Back in the 1980s there was a massive panic over Audis that exhibited "Sudden Acceleration Syndrome". Thousands of compliants, lawsuits, and a huge hit piece on Sixty Minutes with stories of cars driving themselves into swimming pools, through garage doors, and so forth.

So the DOT did a massive study on "Sudden Acceleration Syndrome", only to conlude that the most likely cause of "Sudden Acceleration Syndrome is "pedal misapplication".


Yeah...way too many people, especially old people, seem to forget the ol' "brake left, gas right" thing. How many stories have been on fark about idiots plowing through Farmer's Markets or stores because they confused their gas and brake pedals.

I'm sure most of these are legit, but I'm guessing there's at least a few idiots not paying attention.
 
2010-02-24 12:42:32 PM  
The accelerator issues sound like electrical / computer problems based on the testimonies I've read so far. That said, here's my Cool Story Bro ®...

Last fall I had reason to travel to So. Cal for a conference. The hotel we were staying at had valet only parking, which was free to hybrid drivers.

When I rented a car, a Prius was only $15 more a day (valet would have been $25 / day)... I decided to rent the Prius and not pay for parking.

That car was a nightmare. Numerous times I'd think I was in gear, only to be in neutral. Or, I'd think I was in park, and lift my foot off the brake, only to lurch forward. For those of you who haven't driven one or ridden in one, for reasons only explicable to Toyota, they have a completely non-standard shift / drive selection mechanism. (I should add, I drive a Civic Hybrid as my regular commuter car... good mileage, drives pretty much the same as a regular civic. Same keys, same gear selection, same pull lever parking brake, etc)

i35.photobucket.com

Look at the picture above. There is an on/off button. A parking brake button. A shifter / drive selector that puts the car in drive, neutral, reverse, and in an "eco mode". This may all make immediate sense to Prius owners, but for most of us I'd say it is confusing. Some of the stories I've read had to do with rental / loaner cars, so I'd have to imagine this confusion has played in somewhat.

So... people who don't know to hold down the power button are farked. If the car won't shift out of drive you're farked. An electronic parking brake button isn't going to do shiat. Nothing in that car isn't electronicly controlled (transmission, acceleration, braking, etc)... almost nothing someone can do if the electronics are going bad, and if the start/stop button won't actually turn off the car (big question), what else can you do?

I'd predict this is going to end up being the largest product liability situation since the tobacco settlements... the loss of sales Toyota / Lexus is likely suffering right now must be devastating. They've got a serious farking problem, and I don't see how they are going to get out of it anytime soon.
 
2010-02-24 12:42:41 PM  
oldfarthenry: Let's see - the government pours BILLIONS into the domestic auto industry then TA-DA - their major competition gets raked over the coals over recall issues.

Sorry, lady - I know the UAW is paying you a lot of money to testi-lie but I'm smellin' a conspiracy!
*adjusts tin foil hat*


Considering there are NOT similar problems with other foreign car companies such as Hyundai, Honda, Subaru, BMW, Nissan, Mercedes (and I can continue on). I see a lot of holes in your theory.
 
2010-02-24 12:42:46 PM  
Eddie Adams from Torrance: God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

No, it'll turn out to be one of those inspirational, "Footprints" kind of things.

"...Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you you'd drive with me all the way. But I noticed there is only one set of skid marks down the whole six miles of freeway. I don't understand why when I needed you most you would leave me.

The Lord replied, 'My precious child, I love you and I would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of skid marks, that's when I was calling you over the OnStar system to tell you you mixed up the brake and gas pedals, but the phone was busy because you were yakking with your husband. Stupid biatch.'"
 
2010-02-24 12:43:02 PM  
One retard claiming she had both feet on the brakes and still couldn't stop the car does NOT make it true. Unless the Toyota has brake by wire, the brake pedal should win.
 
2010-02-24 12:43:09 PM  
This is not a Toyota problem. It is indeed, the work of Skynet. Once it cycles through all the Japanese car brands, then it will hit the American car brands. Mark my words.
 
Ant
2010-02-24 12:43:48 PM  
manimal2878: Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

If your car is ramping up in speed, wouldn't you need both hands on the wheel to steer around things and avoid obstacles? I find it incredibly unlikely she could have made a phone call and paid attention to the road enough to avoid wrecking.


Voice dial on bluetooth headset. Try it.
 
2010-02-24 12:44:20 PM  
impaler: Ingaba: hb0mb: In my car, a 2006 bmw, there is no key to turn. you put it into a slot and press a button. much like to make a phone call, you press a button on the steering wheel. I'm willing to bet the lexus is probably comprable to my car.

According to Toyota, if you press the start button and hold it for 2-5 seconds the car will turn off.

I have to go to the "start" menu in order to shut this thing down? Who designed this monstrosity!?


Its not the automakers fault if you don't know how to stop your own damn vehicle.

/Its as simple as shifting up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, brakes, accelerator, brakes, accelerator, start!
/Or crawl out on the hood and disconnect the battery cable.
 
2010-02-24 12:44:22 PM  
Dead for Tax Reasons: TheBitterest: FTA: "After six miles later, God intervened," and the car began to slow on it own, though the engine continued to rev itself in cycles."

Why does God get all the credit for stopping the car, but none of the blame for starting it in the first place?

that was teh devil's work


God told me the expression on her face was priceless.

/and by God I mean Phil the schizophrenic homeless guy.
 
2010-02-24 12:44:50 PM  
"I called my husband on the blue tooth phone system. "

No one talks like that. She was coached to say that, period. Sorry folks, but that's one of those points that a lawyer is hired to not gloss over. Had she just said she called her husband, an argument can be made for phone use being irresponsible and yadda yadda.

That was intentional and probably unlikely.
 
2010-02-24 12:45:02 PM  
PlusCestLaMeme: ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

Doesn't model year xxxx always come out in year xxxx-1?


Yea 2010's started appearing in Mid-late 2009. Depends on the manufacture but some have them as early as July/August.
 
2010-02-24 12:45:14 PM  
People should go to jail over this.
 
2010-02-24 12:45:26 PM  
Toyota did screw up, but let's keep things in perspective. Based on the data I saw you're about 1,000x more likely to die from your own dumbass mistake driving one of the affected Toyota models than you are to die due to a defect.

Obviously the issue needs to be fixed, but I don't see any reason to panic over it.
 
2010-02-24 12:45:31 PM  
floor9: manimal2878: %100 bullshiat.

I don't know about that, man. There are too many complaints to be ignored.

I'm not a mechanic, so the inner workings of these systems is beyond my skill level. But if the throttle is indeed a "throttle by wire" system, and if the transmission is also electronic, then it's not hard to imagine a software failure.


I don't think these cars have braking by wire, so I'm going with "%100 bullshiat".
 
2010-02-24 12:46:09 PM  
Kar98: always drive

The only reason, huh?
 
2010-02-24 12:46:17 PM  
So is this why we don't have flying cars yet?
 
2010-02-24 12:46:19 PM  
Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

Aren't these cars push button start/stop now? You have to have the key fob in the car, but there's no turnkey ignition any more.
 
2010-02-24 12:46:44 PM  
TwistedIvory: I have a hard time envisioning an entirely electronic transmission selector, too.

I don't.

Link
 
2010-02-24 12:46:53 PM  
My parents both have a Prius, and I've driven their car plenty of times. I'm willing to believe that she had trouble putting it into neutral (it has a super weird tiny handle for shifting, and I'm assuming the lexus is the same way).
HOWEVER, let me say this- when you shift the prius, the handle resets to the middle. So she may have been continually trying to push the button in, and freaking out because it kept resetting and not sticking. Especially if it was a new car to her (as people above are saying, her story only works if she had had the car only a month or two), she may never have noticed that happening.

here's a picture: apronstringsemily.files.wordpress.com

Also, having grown up driving a stick, I can't imagine putting a car into neutral, slamming the brakes (including emergency brake) and turning off the car won't slow it down.
 
2010-02-24 12:46:58 PM  
mantabulous: Eddie Adams from Torrance: God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

You forget that it's all part of his plan. His ways are beyond your understanding.


Bullshiat! 6 miles at 100 mph? Thats 600 miles! That's TORTURE!
 
2010-02-24 12:47:04 PM  
Rman

sweet looking double-nickel!
 
2010-02-24 12:47:28 PM  
lokidecat: "I called my husband on the blue tooth phone system. "

No one talks like that. She was coached to say that, period. Sorry folks, but that's one of those points that a lawyer is hired to not gloss over. Had she just said she called her husband, an argument can be made for phone use being irresponsible and yadda yadda.

That was intentional and probably unlikely.


Gee, you think that somebody who obviously has some money (she was driving a Lexus, after all) and was called to testify before Congress might have... you know... spoken to a lawyer first? Because that seems totally unlikely to me.
 
2010-02-24 12:47:39 PM  
Gee, am I the only one who finds it strange these claims of sudden acceleration come after the gummint buys into GM and Chrysler? I mean Toyota has a well deserved reputation for quality (you can usually get 250,000 miles out of their vehicles no problem; not so with most GM and Chrysler products) so what better way to destroy that rep than with a safety scandal?

To put this in further perspective, how many Toyotas were known to have accelerated out of control? And how many Toyotas are on the road? And how many of the out of control Toyotas were that way becuase the driver was a dumbass and pressed the wrong pedal?
 
2010-02-24 12:47:49 PM  
trappedspirit: Why is it always old people who claimed to have done everything technically available to stop the car but they still cannot program a vcr? I call panicky shenanigans/selective recall/insurance dodge

/wotsavcr


Kind of why I wished they brought in somebody who didn't look like they've had a silver spoon in their mouth since birth, and has never had to do anything themselves. The fact she also drives a lexus just kind of furthers that point.

Not saying that what this lady said isn't entirely plausible, just that we'll never know for sure. "What do you mean my purse was sitting on the gas pedal?" or the floor mat, or her cruise acceleration was being engaged.

/I fail to see how braking would not stop the car either.
 
2010-02-24 12:48:06 PM  
"Oh crap! I just put the new Lexus my husband bought me into the guardrail! He's going to kill me! I need to come up with an excuse that not only absolves me of any responsibility, but also makes me look good. Now think..."
 
2010-02-24 12:48:12 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

You know damn well why it wouldn't.
 
2010-02-24 12:48:21 PM  
floor9: What amuses me is the people who insist -- INSIST -- that the transmission selector is a direct, mechanical link to the transmission itself. I am no mechanic, but I am willing to bet that in most cars today -- especially relatively high-end cars like Lexus -- this is no longer the case. Everything is electronic; the selector is just an input device.

pretty sure the manual on my '06 legacy is direct. The fact that I can and do occasionally grind gears (and feel it through the shifter), seems to contradict the notion of the stick being electronically abstracted by the transmission. Plus there's the occasionaly difficulty entering reverse after being parked (I have to cycle through forward gears first sometimes). That would be something a behind the scenes wired system would presumably prevent.

Now paddle shifters are another story...
 
2010-02-24 12:48:31 PM  
SpectroBoy: One retard claiming she had both feet on the brakes and still couldn't stop the car does NOT make it true. Unless the Toyota has brake by wire, the brake pedal should win.

If the car does have brake by wire, Toyota should bring it up at their testimony and tell that woman to stuff her lies where the sun doesn't shine. I think this thread has already found at least 2 holes in her story, braking aside.
 
2010-02-24 12:48:37 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

same reason I can buy a 2011 model-year cars before the end of 2010? Citation (new window)
 
2010-02-24 12:48:48 PM  
man, i seriously want to cockpunch the assholes that are commenting with shiat like 'she obviously did NOT put it into neutral'

what these farking assclowns dont realize is that newer cars, ESPECIALLY luxury cars like lexus, are all controlled by the ECU.

so yeah, your tranny, gas pedal, engine and brakes can all fail at once if the ECU has a bad ROM file or it somehow is corrupted.

seriously, someone post a cockpunch picture please!
 
2010-02-24 12:49:03 PM  
doglover: LOLIDRIVESTICKPAD

I always knew automatics were retarded, and this proves it. If it happened to me I'd try and hit the center wall maybe.


It is not the automatic transmission that is the problem, it is the farking electronics. They have a major bug somewhere in their code, and if I was guessing it is one that only happens after modules a, b, d, e, and f have ran, then module z runs for the square root of X multiplied by PI divided by the log of e time. Good luck figuring out what the fark that is about, also it is probably the most expensive piece on the entire car to fix.
 
2010-02-24 12:49:08 PM  
rman: That why I drive this.. 4 speed, CLUTCH, and Battery Shut OFFSwitch in Floor!
//">


And it will fling you through the windshield if you hit something.
 
2010-02-24 12:49:09 PM  
How do we know these people are not lying for their "cut"? Seems more likely than a car in neutral accelerting that a woman driver is both retarded and out for a check.
 
2010-02-24 12:49:10 PM  
HansensDisease
After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

I wasn't aware that God controlled the reset pin on embedded processors!

Does that feature come with the car?


God is a standard feature on all 2010 Lexus models and is part of the luxury and sport packages on the Camry and Corolla.
 
2010-02-24 12:49:19 PM  
thepatriotaxe.com
/sepaku or hari kari?
 
2010-02-24 12:49:30 PM  
alywa: The accelerator issues sound like electrical / computer problems based on the testimonies I've read so far. That said, here's my Cool Story Bro ®...

Last fall I had reason to travel to So. Cal for a conference. The hotel we were staying at had valet only parking, which was free to hybrid drivers.

When I rented a car, a Prius was only $15 more a day (valet would have been $25 / day)... I decided to rent the Prius and not pay for parking.

That car was a nightmare. Numerous times I'd think I was in gear, only to be in neutral. Or, I'd think I was in park, and lift my foot off the brake, only to lurch forward. For those of you who haven't driven one or ridden in one, for reasons only explicable to Toyota, they have a completely non-standard shift / drive selection mechanism. (I should add, I drive a Civic Hybrid as my regular commuter car... good mileage, drives pretty much the same as a regular civic. Same keys, same gear selection, same pull lever parking brake, etc)



Look at the picture above. There is an on/off button. A parking brake button. A shifter / drive selector that puts the car in drive, neutral, reverse, and in an "eco mode". This may all make immediate sense to Prius owners, but for most of us I'd say it is confusing. Some of the stories I've read had to do with rental / loaner cars, so I'd have to imagine this confusion has played in somewhat.

So... people who don't know to hold down the power button are farked. If the car won't shift out of drive you're farked. An electronic parking brake button isn't going to do shiat. Nothing in that car isn't electronicly controlled (transmission, acceleration, braking, etc)... almost nothing someone can do if the electronics are going bad, and if the start/stop button won't actually turn off the car (big question), what else can you do?

I'd predict this is going to end up being the largest product liability situation since the tobacco settlements... the loss of sales Toyota / Lexus is likely suffering right now must be devastating. They've got a serious farking problem, and I don't see how they are going to get out of it anytime soon.


Interesting. The Toyota Prius was going to be my next car. Maybe I will go for a Chevrolet Volt instead.
 
2010-02-24 12:49:33 PM  
oldfarthenry: Let's see - the government pours BILLIONS into the domestic auto industry then TA-DA - their major competition gets raked over the coals over recall issues.

Sorry, lady - I know the UAW is paying you a lot of money to testi-lie but I'm smellin' a conspiracy!
*adjusts tin foil hat*


Could be that the other car companies cut corners to turn a profit... but hey, what do I know about corporate deadlines.
 
2010-02-24 12:50:10 PM  
impaler: Actually no one is griping on her saying "thank god!" They are commenting on the fact that she attributes god to slowing the car. The point being it doesn't take hours of scientific thought to reason "if god gets credit for stopping it, why not starting it?"

Au contraire, people are sh*tting all over her for not being able to provide an explanation for something. The Toyota technicians with diagnostic equipment were also unable to explain it. She used a colloquial device to describe the unexplained, unexpected, and altogether appreciated. Do all such posters lose hours of sleep whenever someone describes an "act of God" in reference to insurance claims?

Prank Call of Cthulhu: The Lord replied, 'My precious child, I love you and I would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of skid marks, that's when I was calling you over the OnStar system to tell you you mixed up the brake and gas pedals, but the phone was busy because you were yakking with your husband. Stupid biatch.'"

So the whole time that she describes shifting the transmission, attempting to cycle the ignition, using the e-brake you're 100% certain that she had her feet jammed, continuously on the gas thinking it was the brake. How would it have affected this argument if she had said "after six miles, I guess I was touched by his noodly appendage because the car finally slowed. Just kidding I'm an avowed atheist and there's no such thing as God. The car slowed down, and I'm appreciative of that continued living thing."

What a stupid c*nt, not believing in FSM or any other spaghetti monsters.
 
2010-02-24 12:50:11 PM  
factoryconnection: GAT_00: Because if people did that, they'd think it through and stop believing in God. I always have to stop myself from strangling someone when they say something like that.

Her car was hurtling down the highway and nothing that she could do could bring it under control. Then, randomly the car slowed down despite continued signs that the thing was f*cked up. Believe it or not, people reacting to unexplained events that without hours and hours of scientific thought aren't doing it just to piss off thin-skinned douche bags on the internet.

Lady: "Thank God I'm not dead."
ITA: "F*CK YOU YOU STUPID C*NT GOD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT WHY DON'T YOU PUT MORE THOUGHT INTO IT YOU FAT COW!!!"

Get a grip on yourselves.


When unexplained events happen, I don't immediately think 'magic!', but then, I'm not an idiot.
 
2010-02-24 12:50:18 PM  
ZAZ: floor9

Are you sure your clutch is a direct mechanical link? My last two cars have had a master-slave cylinder pair that malfunctioned leaving the clutch engaged full time.


A cylinder is part of a hydraulic system, right? Does it necessarily include electronics?

/seriously - I'm asking...
 
2010-02-24 12:50:27 PM  
Katie98_KT: My parents both have a Prius, and I've driven their car plenty of times. I'm willing to believe that she had trouble putting it into neutral (it has a super weird tiny handle for shifting, and I'm assuming the lexus is the same way).
HOWEVER, let me say this- when you shift the prius, the handle resets to the middle. So she may have been continually trying to push the button in, and freaking out because it kept resetting and not sticking. Especially if it was a new car to her (as people above are saying, her story only works if she had had the car only a month or two), she may never have noticed that happening.

here's a picture:

Also, having grown up driving a stick, I can't imagine putting a car into neutral, slamming the brakes (including emergency brake) and turning off the car won't slow it down.


It works if the ECU decides to put the transmission into neutral when you move the gearshift. If it decides not to like in this case, you're pretty much farked. Same goes for the electronic ignition etc
 
2010-02-24 12:50:27 PM  
Honestly, I'm more shocked by the people who act like 100mph on a highway is ridiculously fast and there's no possible way to do anything beyond hanging on for dear life at those kinds of speeds.

In any well built card designed for comfortable highway travel, 100mph is quick, but not a Huge Farking Deal(tm). When I was a teenager, less conscience of the financial ramifications, 100mph was no big deal. Now that I'm older, it's still police concerns that prevent those speeds and not safety concerns (assuming good road conditions). I'd be absolutely shocked if the majority of people in this thread criticizing her for calling her husband at 100mph haven't driven comfortably at 100mph, even if it was accidental due to incline or not paying enough attention to speed while passing.

100mph in a neighborhood; perhaps panic is called for, but she was on an interstate. The worst case scenario is not being able to navigate around other slower drivers. Her car should be able to safely handle the highway at 100mph if she doesn't panic.
 
2010-02-24 12:50:33 PM  
oldfarthenry: Let's see - the government pours BILLIONS into the domestic auto industry then TA-DA - their major competition gets raked over the coals over recall issues.

Sorry, lady - I know the UAW is paying you a lot of money to testi-lie but I'm smellin' a conspiracy!
*adjusts tin foil hat*


THIS!! This this this, oh this!
 
2010-02-24 12:50:44 PM  
Prank Call of Cthulhu: Eddie Adams from Torrance: God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

No, it'll turn out to be one of those inspirational, "Footprints" kind of things.

"...Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you you'd drive with me all the way. But I noticed there is only one set of skid marks down the whole six miles of freeway. I don't understand why when I needed you most you would leave me.

The Lord replied, 'My precious child, I love you and I would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of skid marks, that's when I was calling you over the OnStar system to tell you you mixed up the brake and gas pedals, but the phone was busy because you were yakking with your husband. Stupid biatch.'"


I'd like to see that laminated to a wooden plaque and hung on a wall.
 
2010-02-24 12:50:47 PM  
bodyshots: so yeah, your tranny,

don't bring my tranny into this!
 
2010-02-24 12:51:01 PM  
She left out the part where she deliberately drove off a cliff to avoid hitting a busload of nuns and orphans in that version.
 
2010-02-24 12:51:11 PM  
See? this is what happens when people get lazy. "Oooh it's so much WORK to turn a key to start my car, why oh why doesn't someone make it easier?"

Supposedly, you can shut these pushbutton cars down by holding the button down, but if the software is already freaking out, will it pay any attention to the button? I don't know, because my car has a key (and a stickshift just like a Real ITG) that actually cuts power to the engine electronics to shut the car off, not one of these buttons like an ATX power supp....

Heeeyyyyy..... Nah, not possible. Can't be using cheap power supplies in those expensive cars, right?

Unimpressed.

www.freewebs.com

Best smell in the world....
 
2010-02-24 12:51:16 PM  
impaler: factoryconnection: Her car was hurtling down the highway and nothing that she could do could bring it under control. Then, randomly the car slowed down despite continued signs that the thing was f*cked up. Believe it or not, people reacting to unexplained events that without hours and hours of scientific thought aren't doing it just to piss off thin-skinned douche bags on the internet.

Lady: "Thank God I'm not dead."
ITA: "F*CK YOU YOU STUPID C*NT GOD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT WHY DON'T YOU PUT MORE THOUGHT INTO IT YOU FAT COW!!!"

Get a grip on yourselves.

Actually no one is griping on her saying "thank god!" They are commenting on the fact that she attributes god to slowing the car. The point being it doesn't take hours of scientific thought to reason "if god gets credit for stopping it, why not starting it?"


Psht. Of course God didn't get her into trouble. Satan did. Or one of those other crap gods that the heathens have.
Or Obama.
Or some guy putting his peener into another guy's butt.

Get serious.
 
2010-02-24 12:51:21 PM  
mr lawson: ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

You know damn well why it wouldn't.


Wow... didn't notice ihatedumbpeople's post there... C'mon, are you telling me you have access to an AllData system and still have such little knowledge of cars that you don't realize that cars from a given model number year start going on sale around August of the previous year?

Whatever dealership, part store, or mechanic shop you work for, I hope to never go there.
 
2010-02-24 12:51:23 PM  
Maximum Overdrive anyone?
 
2010-02-24 12:51:29 PM  
Ivan Dobski: /sepaku or hari kari?

Same thing.
 
2010-02-24 12:52:34 PM  
PsyLord: So is this why we don't have flying cars yet?


No. We don't have flying cars because our retarded nation can't drive on a farking straight road, at only 45 mph, without hitting another goddam car...
 
2010-02-24 12:52:41 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: BlackCat23: ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

Which hit the market in '06. Like most models do.(ie: new model years come out in the numerical year before. 07 cars come out in 06, '11 cars come out in '10)

I'm aware of that...just pointing out how small the window had to be for this to happen...if the '07 model was the first ES350 and this happened in 06, that car had to have been damn near brand new...makes you wonder if this was a buggy software glitch or if she's full of crap...


It went on sale iirc the last week of april 06, her incident occurred on October 12th of the same year. So yeah, pretty small window, but not out of the realm of possibility of various electrical things to go wrong, either.


7of7: BlackCat23: that it has MULTIPLE causes(yes, the pedal is a cause, the force feedback part of the drive by wire pedal can wear and stick)is downright negligent.

Which is why I'm guessing the whole controversy is a load of media overreaction and congressional hand wringing to appear competent spurned on by greedy lawyers and people like this lady who are all too ready to claim something happened so they can get on the class action and media appearance gravy train.


While i agree about the lawsuit/congressional biggus dickus stuff, if it is eventually found that there's multiple causes, both physical and electronic, toyota should be held accountable for it. I've been hearing a lot of "this is toyota's pinto moment" after that internal memo about saving a couple hundred mil worked it's way out into the world.
 
2010-02-24 12:52:50 PM  
Eddie Adams from Torrance: HansensDisease: After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

I wasn't aware that God controlled the reset pin on embedded processors!

Does that feature come with the car?

God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.


Except now she can testify, and help ensure others don't have the same problem. If it would have only accelerated for 1 or 2 seconds, she would have probably never filed a complaint or have been contacted. If she would have died, she wouldn't have testified.

Seems like she tried everything, and lived to warn others...
 
2010-02-24 12:52:56 PM  
Katie98_KT: My parents both have a Prius, and I've driven their car plenty of times. I'm willing to believe that she had trouble putting it into neutral (it has a super weird tiny handle for shifting, and I'm assuming the lexus is the same way).
HOWEVER, let me say this- when you shift the prius, the handle resets to the middle. So she may have been continually trying to push the button in, and freaking out because it kept resetting and not sticking. Especially if it was a new car to her (as people above are saying, her story only works if she had had the car only a month or two), she may never have noticed that happening.

here's a picture:

Also, having grown up driving a stick, I can't imagine putting a car into neutral, slamming the brakes (including emergency brake) and turning off the car won't slow it down.


Actually, the Lexus isn't anything like that at all.
 
2010-02-24 12:53:03 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

The NHTSA contacted the people that currently own the car and they said they bought it with under 3000 miles from the woman in question after the incident, so I doubt there is any fabrication on that part of the issue.
 
2010-02-24 12:53:18 PM  
I'd like to buy a car like this. I've always wanted to take out a school bus full of orphans, and with this amazing, magical car I can leave Toyota to pay the bill!

The new Toyota Psyhco!!
 
2010-02-24 12:53:42 PM  
bighairyguy: She left out the part where she deliberately drove off a cliff to avoid hitting a busload of nuns and orphans in that version.

forwhomthebagtolls.com
 
2010-02-24 12:53:43 PM  
alywa: That car was a nightmare. Numerous times I'd think I was in gear, only to be in neutral. Or, I'd think I was in park, and lift my foot off the brake, only to lurch forward. For those of you who haven't driven one or ridden in one, for reasons only explicable to Toyota, they have a completely non-standard shift / drive selection mechanism.

thank you for proving my point. Some people are just too stupid to operate a car.

The parking brake has a light. If the light is on you're not going anywhere, how hard is that?
 
2010-02-24 12:53:45 PM  
Talon: mrshowrules: impaler: If any of this is remotely true, that TWO components of the car could simultaneously fail, the car manufacturer known as Toyota should cease to exist.

While it is impossible to design a throttle system that could never fail, things stick, sensors error. It should be nearly impossible for that to fail at the same time as the brake sensors, which should kill any >5%-10% throttle when >5%-10% braking is applied. And in the 'that should never happen, but hey, people win the lottery even though it is 100 million to one' event that that does happen, the ability to put the car in neutral should not fail.

I am inclined to believe this women isn't 100% honest, and that the above scenario is in fact impossible, because you have to be one incompetent engineer to design a system where the throttle, brakes and shifting don't fail-safe.

But if Toyota isn't immediately releasing a statement to that effect, you have to wonder.

If Toyota hasn't raped and murdered a girl in 1990 wasn't born in the US hasn't done anything wrong, why won't they come out and say it? Their silence is damning!

Bad logic is bad.

I don't think Toyota is telling the whole truth simply because of the stories like this from both men and women where it is obvious it is not a matter of a pedal stuck on a floor matt. But I don't think it is intentional or malicious. The systems were probably designed to fail-safe, but programs glitch and things can go wrong. I think Toyota isn't saying anything because they want to preserve plausible deniability. Even if they think she's nuts and want to shove it in her face exactly how they design it to be fail-safe, it is in their better legal interest to remain silent.


You are misrepersenting my point. All I said it "makes you wonder" why Toyota isn't coming out with a statement regarding this testimony. Your point about why they would do this is certainly possible.
 
2010-02-24 12:53:45 PM  
manimal2878: Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

If your car is ramping up in speed, wouldn't you need both hands on the wheel to steer around things and avoid obstacles? I find it incredibly unlikely she could have made a phone call and paid attention to the road enough to avoid wrecking.


Meh, it only made it to a 100mph, shiat I would question what kind of tinker toy engine it had in it that in 6 miles at full throttle it only made it to a 100mph. Fark I regularly drive at those speeds with one hand, the other is either jacking me off or stuffing a Big Mac into my fat face.
 
2010-02-24 12:53:58 PM  
Ringringring...

Hello?

OMGWTFBBQ! My car's been haxxored! I'm doing 110 down the interstate and I CAN'T STOP!!!

Is your life insurance current?

:)
 
2010-02-24 12:53:59 PM  
AshHousewares18: Is this the thread where I get to brag about my manual transmission F-150 from 1997 and how much more awesome it is than them thar fancy luxury cars with their electronic controls?

Because mechanical stuff never fails, ever.


But when it does, you can often identify the cause.
 
2010-02-24 12:53:59 PM  
stewbert: The farking Prius work car gives me fits all the time. Sometimes it's slapstick comedy trying to get the damn thing into drive or park.

Huh?

"Park" isn't on the Prius shifter, you know.
 
2010-02-24 12:54:03 PM  
NPR (or BBC World, whatever was on last night) said she used a Bluetooth headset to call her husband.

So she might not have taken her hands off the damn wheel.

/God this judging from my computer chair ITG crap is getting OLD
 
2010-02-24 12:54:03 PM  
Katie98_KT: weird shifter knob

Thanks for the better picture. As someone who hadn't drive one before, it was very confusing to me. As I said in my post, the selector in the model I was driving had another setting to the right, an all-electric Eco Mode (good for a mile or so in slow traffic).

Unnecessary and very likely a contributing factor in this whole fiasco.
 
2010-02-24 12:54:59 PM  
Story of hers is complete bunk. Throwing a car into reverse at that speed will gernade the transmission, at best. At worst, a RWD car could flip if the driveshaft came loose and pole vaulted the car. Here is a video of a guy racing his mustang and accidentally putting the car in reverse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNLz9E92-FU
 
2010-02-24 12:55:05 PM  
cbcs: Actually, the Lexus isn't anything like that at all.

bugger. Sorry, never seen a lexus. Good theory though, right?
 
2010-02-24 12:55:06 PM  
Bippal: Kar98: always drive

The only reason, huh?


Well, and you can't hill-start an automatic.
 
2010-02-24 12:55:36 PM  
SpectroBoy: One retard claiming she had both feet on the brakes and still couldn't stop the car does NOT make it true. Unless the Toyota has brake by wire, the brake pedal should win.

The car should also not accelerate on its own, but we're not dealing with what should happen here. We're dealing with Toyota.
 
2010-02-24 12:55:44 PM  
Chevello: Supposedly, you can shut these pushbutton cars down by holding the button down, but if the software is already freaking out, will it pay any attention to the button? I don't know, because my car has a key (and a stickshift just like a Real ITG) that actually cuts power to the engine electronics to shut the car off, not one of these buttons like an ATX power supp....

Hmm. If you were to hold down the "off" button on the car for five seconds...
 
2010-02-24 12:55:56 PM  
No mechanical control of the ignition switch.
No mechanical control of the accelerator.
No mechanical control of the transmission.

I don't care what brand of automobile this is. It looks like a recipe for trouble.
 
2010-02-24 12:56:07 PM  
Like I say in all these car threads...
Emergency Kill Switch.
i50.tinypic.com

Problem solved.
 
2010-02-24 12:56:09 PM  
Ingaba: hb0mb: In my car, a 2006 bmw, there is no key to turn. you put it into a slot and press a button. much like to make a phone call, you press a button on the steering wheel. I'm willing to bet the lexus is probably comprable to my car.

According to Toyota, if you press the start button and hold it for 2-5 seconds the car will turn off.


WTF? Are they using a Windows PC for their computer?
 
2010-02-24 12:56:39 PM  
alywa: Katie98_KT: weird shifter knob

...As someone who hadn't drive one before, it was very confusing to me.


weren't similar wrecks the reason transmission controls were standardized back in the day?
 
2010-02-24 12:56:41 PM  
There are people all over the country, who have been convicted and sentenced to multiple year prison terms because of these issues. Vehicular assault and Vehicular homicide are pretty serious felonies. Toyota, Lexus, Perodua, Daihatsu and Scion cars have had these problems for more than a decade. There have been wrecks where people have been killed, and its always been chalked up to speed being the primary factor in the wreck.

One here in my area, was a Scion, brand new, three kids lost their lives on a local connecting highway, going speeds that should have been impossible for the car if it was being driven normally. I remember this one in particular because it happened on the viaduct just above my work and scattered car parts all over our parking lot, which was more than 150 feet away from the initial impact site.

I Wonder how many people have lost their lives or their freedom because of these problems which have just now become public? I wonder how many people are sitting in prison because their defense (that the car was accelerating uncontrollably and the brakes wouldn't work) just didn't fly with the Jury? I wonder how many of these trials had witnesses from the Corporation who testified that these sorts of events were physically impossible and had never happened before?

Seems to me that there is a bigger shiat sandwich here that nobody wants to talk about.
 
2010-02-24 12:57:09 PM  
Mr Guy: Honestly, I'm more shocked by the people who act like 100mph on a highway is ridiculously fast and there's no possible way to do anything beyond hanging on for dear life at those kinds of speeds.

100 mph isn't fast when traffic is moving at 95mph. 100mph is quite fast when traffic is moving at 65mph, sorta like driving around a parking lot at 35 mph. It is also quite fast when your car is doing it regardless of your input. Sorta like a freaking nightmare.

Unless I read the story wrong, or it missed some info, she did handle this without crashing.
 
2010-02-24 12:57:21 PM  
Approves of actuarial assessment
estb.msn.com
 
2010-02-24 12:57:24 PM  
Kar98: Bippal: Kar98: always drive

The only reason, huh?

Well, and you can't hill-start an automatic.


I'll take that bet.
 
2010-02-24 12:57:35 PM  
bodyshots: so yeah, your tranny, gas pedal, engine and brakes can all fail at once if the ECU has a bad ROM file or it somehow is corrupted.

Any company that doesn't give the tranny, gas pedal, engine and brakes their own separate ECU, with redundant inter-communication networks, is asking for trouble.
 
2010-02-24 12:58:12 PM  
I'm sure glad I have a clutch with a mechanical linkage and a gearshift that has a direct physical linkage to the transmissions internals.

/you deserve to be killed if you drive an automatic
//auto drivers are worst drivers in the world
///One hand on their cell phone, eating a burger with the other, smacking their kids with one foot and steering with their other knee, tailgating all the way.
 
2010-02-24 12:59:05 PM  
Little-known fact: Toyota on-board systems were designed by Dr. Chandra--
blueinfinite.com
 
2010-02-24 12:59:12 PM  
Slaves2Darkness: Meh, it only made it to a 100mph, shiat I would question what kind of tinker toy engine it had in it that in 6 miles at full throttle it only made it to a 100mph. Fark I regularly drive at those speeds with one hand, the other is either jacking me off or stuffing a Big Mac into my fat face.

I've easily driven between 95 and 100 in complete control of the car, but I a) chose to do so, b) knew that I could take my foot off the gas pedal whenever I wanted, c) only did so on a two lane highway with no other traffic.

Well, except that cop, but I knew someone was probably hiding in that spot and he just clocked me at 80 and booked me for 5 over.

Good times.
 
2010-02-24 12:59:20 PM  
impaler: Any company that doesn't give the tranny, gas pedal, engine and brakes their own separate ECU, with redundant inter-communication networks, is asking for trouble.

I always give my tranny separate Edible Clothing Units. Doesn't everyone?

Wait...what did YOU think ECU meant?

/backing out of thread
 
2010-02-24 12:59:27 PM  
I don't necessarily doubt her story - based on my own experiences, I probably wouldn't buy a drive by wire vehicle until the tech has matured a bit - but there have been plenty of panics over "uncontrollable acceleration" in the past, most of which have been grounded in operator error. I do wonder if there's any evidence beyond her testimony that supports her recollection of events - photos of the highway with 6 miles of fresh skid marks, garage reports on the vehicle (which is still on the road, etc.

Does anyone know if that model has brake by wire?
 
2010-02-24 01:00:01 PM  
HeartBurnKid: manimal2878: Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

If your car is ramping up in speed, wouldn't you need both hands on the wheel to steer around things and avoid obstacles? I find it incredibly unlikely she could have made a phone call and paid attention to the road enough to avoid wrecking.

She was driving a Lexus ES350. It has Bluetooth.

Calling her husband didn't involve digging a cell phone out or hammering buttons, it was as simple as holding in a button on the radio and saying, "Call John" (or whatever his name is).


No no, She was screaming "God damn mother farker! and the voice control placed the call.
 
2010-02-24 01:00:14 PM  
I would like to see Toyota disprove all these bullshiat stories, drop their prices 20%, and come up with some kickass financing, and hopefully manage to choke the last bit of remaining life out of GM once and for all.
 
2010-02-24 01:00:15 PM  
darcsun: Story of hers is complete bunk. Throwing a car into reverse at that speed will gernade the transmission, at best. At worst, a RWD car could flip if the driveshaft came loose and pole vaulted the car. Here is a video of a guy racing his mustang and accidentally putting the car in reverse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNLz9E92-FU


With a electronic transmission the car won't let you put it in reverse, software in the ecu protects the car from this occurring. You can try physically, but nothing will happen.
 
2010-02-24 01:00:16 PM  
floor9: manimal2878: %100 bullshiat.

I don't know about that, man. There are too many complaints to be ignored.

I'm not a mechanic, so the inner workings of these systems is beyond my skill level. But if the throttle is indeed a "throttle by wire" system, and if the transmission is also electronic, then it's not hard to imagine a software failure.

Software-based safety systems that lack active physical backups (I'm not sure of the exact terminology, but the kind of physical safety mechanism where the computer has to constantly work to bypass said safety, and if the computer fails for any reason, the safety is suddenly "unsuppressed" and kicks in) are notoriously unreliable.

The Therac-25 comes to mind.



I *am* a mechanic, and I'm also calling bullshiat on this one.

Every single control system would have to fail all at once in a very specific way for this to happen. The engine ECU would have to set throttle to full and the tranny ECU would have to lock itself in drive, shift gears, and refuse to accept all inputs (that's three failures in one).

Sorry, but no. Car management systems are not designed that way. Two separate computers would have to fail in very specific ways at the same time. The simplest answer is that the lady is lying about the tranny locking up because she is like the local Fark Brigade who wants everything to be Toyota's fault beyond any shadow of a doubt.

She didn't shift to Neutral, the car didn't try to re-start itself when her hubby allegedly moved the gear selector (WTF kind of bullshiat is that?!), and she didn't respond with all of that precision while playing Hercules on the brake pedal (ummmm, power assist and the ABS make that pointless - brake systems are not direct-control anymore).

She's making shiat up. End of story.
 
2010-02-24 01:00:32 PM  
TwistedIvory: I have a hard time envisioning an entirely electronic transmission selector, too.

This one's not uncommon at all and they've been around for 50 years.

www.irememberjfk.com

Link (new window)

I know many modern GMC Topkick trucks have the 'shifter' on the dash to the left of the steering wheel, there are three buttons (R,N,D) and an LED display to show the current gear.

Shifter failure is one of the more believable things she described.

I was one of the skeptics, but the more I hear the more I think Toyota's got a very serious - perhaps company destroying - problem on their hands.

This lady's story is getting attention because she cried but the really compelling one is the CHP officer who was killed with his family in a Lexus. His 911 call is devastating - calmly describing the situation right up to impact. I'll buy an untrained civilian losing it, but this guy was a 20 year vet who probably did nothing but drive for most of his career and he couldn't get his car to stop.

If you've got Toyota stock, dump it right now.
 
2010-02-24 01:00:35 PM  
bongmiester: Fearing death, she called husband.

driving 100mph in an out of control vehicle she searches for her cell phone and calls her husband. i'm surprised none of the congressmen jumped on this.


So, when she said "Bluetooth", you took that to mean "not bluetooth, fished out of her purse, and hand dialed" ?

Way to read for comprehension there, Ace.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2010-02-24 01:00:35 PM  
Babwa Wawa

The clutch system is mechanical in a literal sense, and as far as I know has no electronics, but it's a step or two removed from a direct link. There are several things that can go wrong.

Fortunately it's easier to shift into neutral without a clutch than it is to get into gear. I never tried it under full throttle though.
 
2010-02-24 01:00:37 PM  
darcsun: Story of hers is complete bunk. Throwing a car into reverse at that speed will gernade the transmission, at best. At worst, a RWD car could flip if the driveshaft came loose and pole vaulted the car. Here is a video of a guy racing his mustang and accidentally putting the car in reverse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNLz9E92-FU


Spoken like a true armchair automotive engineer. Modern automatics have pawls that prevent that type of acrobatics.

Deathfrogg: Seems to me that there is a bigger shiat sandwich here that nobody wants to talk about.

Sorry dude, the consensus is in: she's a lying c*nt and the corporation, as always, is on solid footing.
 
2010-02-24 01:00:46 PM  
forresttriax: No no, She was screaming "God damn mother farker! and the voice control placed the call.

+1
 
2010-02-24 01:01:00 PM  
medius: weren't similar wrecks the reason transmission controls were standardized back in the day?

Not sure, but I found it all very odd. It seems like Toyota just went with different for different's sake... ie "Hey look, its a funky hybrid car with a funky transmission. Isn't that futuristic and cool!?!?!?!"
 
2010-02-24 01:01:06 PM  
fluffy2097: //auto drivers are worst drivers in the world
///One hand on their cell phone, eating a burger with the other, smacking their kids with one foot and steering with their other knee, tailgating all the way.


Moseying in and out of lanes and driveways and sideroads, not a care in the world, not ever once using a turn signal, slowing down to a crawl a block or two before they reach their turn, oblivious to their surroundings and without any farking regard to the presence of other drivers outside their rolling sofa.
 
2010-02-24 01:01:09 PM  
Eddie Adams from Torrance: God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

Actually, now that I think about, maybe the reason it took so long was that god had to shove his feet through the floorboard and stop the thing Flintstone's style. Afterwards, he hopped around in a comic manor, blowing on his feet and going, "Hot! Hot! Hot! Ow! Ow!" but she was still sitting in the car screaming and didn't notice.
 
2010-02-24 01:01:35 PM  
Babwa Wawa: A cylinder is part of a hydraulic system, right? Does it necessarily include electronics?

/seriously - I'm asking...



Yes - a cylinder (in the context of his comment) is part of a hydraulic system. Specifically, a hydraulically operated clutch. No electronics are required at all.
=Smidge=
 
2010-02-24 01:01:35 PM  
IQ7ZuuIU: No mechanical control of the ignition switch.
No mechanical control of the accelerator.
No mechanical control of the transmission.

I don't care what brand of automobile this is. It looks like a recipe for trouble.


Crap like this at least reminds me that I need to finish learning how to drive manual already. I can drive through a parking lot okay but I need a hell of a lot more practice before I feel comfortable driving on the roads/hills.

In retrospect, it would've been nice if they even offered that as an option during drivers ed. I would've paid a bit extra for that, too.
 
2010-02-24 01:01:36 PM  
Bring back hand brakes.
 
2010-02-24 01:01:51 PM  
Deathfrogg: There are people all over the country, who have been convicted and sentenced to multiple year prison terms because of these issues. Vehicular assault and Vehicular homicide are pretty serious felonies. Toyota, Lexus, Perodua, Daihatsu and Scion cars have had these problems for more than a decade. There have been wrecks where people have been killed, and its always been chalked up to speed being the primary factor in the wreck.

One here in my area, was a Scion, brand new, three kids lost their lives on a local connecting highway, going speeds that should have been impossible for the car if it was being driven normally. I remember this one in particular because it happened on the viaduct just above my work and scattered car parts all over our parking lot, which was more than 150 feet away from the initial impact site.

I Wonder how many people have lost their lives or their freedom because of these problems which have just now become public? I wonder how many people are sitting in prison because their defense (that the car was accelerating uncontrollably and the brakes wouldn't work) just didn't fly with the Jury? I wonder how many of these trials had witnesses from the Corporation who testified that these sorts of events were physically impossible and had never happened before?

Seems to me that there is a bigger shiat sandwich here that nobody wants to talk about.


Have you considered a career in law? Maybe filing class action lawsuits. I mean, wow, look at all these facts without citations!
 
2010-02-24 01:02:04 PM  
Having the gas pedals linked by a wire was actually more problematic of unintended acceleration. There were more reports of it due to mechanical failure than there have been since most cars have switched to electronics. Now maybe that is a result of under reporting the claims. Who knows.

I had a '91 Tbird go full throttle when a 50 cent nylon eyelet broke and pulled throttle full tilt. Put it in neutral and turned off the car. Not that it didn't scare the shiat out of me, but the key is don't panic.

I don't know of any transmission linkages that are NOT mechanical. That being said, I had a shift position sensor go bad on a Rodeo that made it buck like it was something from one. So to say there couldn't be anything electronic that might causing shifting problems is being too dismissive.

Brakes though are absolutely mechanical. Short of a master cylinder failure your brakes will work when you push the pedal, power or not. And ALL emergency brakes are attached from the pedal/stick by a steel cable and to your brakes. There is absolutely NO reason the Ebrake didn't work unless someone had disconnected it.

Not saying this lady doesn't believe what she is saying, but I don't think she really remembers what happened or how the car stopped and is looking for a payday out of it. And if she had time to call her husband she was obviously not in that much danger.
 
2010-02-24 01:02:11 PM  
alywa: Or, I'd think I was in park, and lift my foot off the brake, only to lurch forward.

Because "park" isn't on the shifter.

See that little green light in the pic you posted? It's green because that can is in park. The rectangular button that the light is part is pushed in to shift into part. It's not a "parking brake button", that a pedal on the left.

Sounds like operator error.
 
2010-02-24 01:02:35 PM  
Back to the drawing board...

images.thetruthaboutcars.com
 
2010-02-24 01:02:48 PM  
She managed to make a phone call during all of this? Sorry, I don't buy it.
 
2010-02-24 01:04:02 PM  
TwistedIvory: Especially when she talks about whipping out her cell phone while scorching pavement at 100mph in a runaway car and chatting with her husband. Because, really, if that were the case?

See my previous comment about reading for comprehension.
 
2010-02-24 01:04:04 PM  
lokidecat: "I called my husband on the blue tooth phone system. "

No one talks like that. She was coached to say that, period. Sorry folks, but that's one of those points that a lawyer is hired to not gloss over. Had she just said she called her husband, an argument can be made for phone use being irresponsible and yadda yadda.

That was intentional and probably unlikely.


I kind of wonder if she was on the phone before this started to happen? Like right before. If maybe, just maybe something in the wireless device she had with her screwed up the cars electronics some how.

That would be a biatch to prove, and would never show up in isolated testing of just the car itself. Unless you were testing to see if wireless devices farked the car.
 
2010-02-24 01:04:08 PM  
Ubuntu?
 
2010-02-24 01:04:15 PM  
The brake pedal will beat a fully revving engine at 100mph any day.

Yes. The brakes will get the car to around 70MPH, at which point they cook off and the car begins to accelerate again.
 
2010-02-24 01:04:29 PM  
Has there been any testimony from men in regards to their cars accelerating on their own?

Not that I don't trust women.....but they are inattentive drivers.

And $ome of them might think they ju$t $pilled hot coffee in their lap ju$t becau$e they drive a Toyota.....
 
2010-02-24 01:04:40 PM  
dahmers love zombie: I always give my tranny separate Edible Clothing Units. Doesn't everyone?

Wait...what did YOU think ECU meant?

/backing out of thread


Electrical Control Unit? Don't know, I just know they're talking about the embedded CPU that controls the gadgets in the car.
 
2010-02-24 01:04:42 PM  
fluffy2097: I'm sure glad I have a clutch with a mechanical linkage and a gearshift that has a direct physical linkage to the transmissions internals.

/you deserve to be killed if you drive an automatic
//auto drivers are worst drivers in the world
///One hand on their cell phone, eating a burger with the other, smacking their kids with one foot and steering with their other knee, tailgating all the way.


Really. I'm sure the truck that started crossing into my lane last week without his blinker on (and no shoulder to speak of on my side) had an automatic, right? Considering I could see his face in the mirrors, I'm pretty damn sure I wasn't in a blind spot either.

/blanket statements are effing retarded
//so are you if you can't eat and drive manual at the same time
///have friends who can multitask while driving stick as good as any suburban mom in an SUV. Which means their driving often suffers for it.
 
2010-02-24 01:04:55 PM  
TheBitterest: FTA: "After six miles later, God intervened," and the car began to slow on it own, though the engine continued to rev itself in cycles."

Why does God get all the credit for stopping the car, but none of the blame for starting it in the first place?

Did God want her to buy a new car/underwear?

How does she know this wasn't some kind of bet between God and Jesus?

Jesus: Hey dad, let's make this woman's car go 180kph, I've got $10 that says she still uses her cell phone.

God: You're on.


LOL
 
2010-02-24 01:05:23 PM  
fluffy2097: I'm sure glad I have a clutch with a mechanical linkage and a gearshift that has a direct physical linkage to the transmissions internals.

/you deserve to be killed if you drive an automatic
//auto drivers are worst drivers in the world
///One hand on their cell phone, eating a burger with the other, smacking their kids with one foot and steering with their other knee, tailgating all the way.


Meh. Things can happen. I had a '98 Outback with a hydraulic clutch. Around 120,000 miles, clutch hose sprung a leak. A mile from home and I couldn't disengage the clutch. I did manage to get it back to the house driving clutchless and promptly got a new hose and replaced it.

Of course, I had about five safe alternative means for stopping the car besides disengaging the clutch, so there's really no comparison to the Toyota debacle.

/I know, cool story
 
2010-02-24 01:05:26 PM  
HotWingConspiracy: She managed to make a phone call during all of this? Sorry, I don't buy it.

A woman having a hard time driving a vehicle, but no problem talking on the phone? What's so implausible about that?
 
2010-02-24 01:05:37 PM  
impaler: bodyshots: so yeah, your tranny, gas pedal, engine and brakes can all fail at once if the ECU has a bad ROM file or it somehow is corrupted.

Any company that doesn't give the tranny, gas pedal, engine and brakes their own separate ECU, with redundant inter-communication networks, is asking for trouble.


Because auto makers are known for not cutting corners in order to improve the bottom line

Deathfrogg: There are people all over the country, who have been convicted and sentenced to multiple year prison terms because of these issues. Vehicular assault and Vehicular homicide are pretty serious felonies. Toyota, Lexus, Perodua, Daihatsu and Scion cars have had these problems for more than a decade. There have been wrecks where people have been killed, and its always been chalked up to speed being the primary factor in the wreck.

One here in my area, was a Scion, brand new, three kids lost their lives on a local connecting highway, going speeds that should have been impossible for the car if it was being driven normally. I remember this one in particular because it happened on the viaduct just above my work and scattered car parts all over our parking lot, which was more than 150 feet away from the initial impact site.

I Wonder how many people have lost their lives or their freedom because of these problems which have just now become public? I wonder how many people are sitting in prison because their defense (that the car was accelerating uncontrollably and the brakes wouldn't work) just didn't fly with the Jury? I wonder how many of these trials had witnesses from the Corporation who testified that these sorts of events were physically impossible and had never happened before?

Seems to me that there is a bigger shiat sandwich here that nobody wants to talk about.


There was a story I read a few days ago (on fark?) about this same thing(guy is appealing his conviction again after appealing numerous times claiming sudden acceleration), but the vehicle is not under the recall by a year or two.
 
2010-02-24 01:05:46 PM  
lokidecat: "I called my husband on the blue tooth phone system. "

No one talks like that..


Excuse me I'm updating my status update on the facebook.
 
2010-02-24 01:06:13 PM  
floor9: manimal2878: %100 bullshiat.

I don't know about that, man. There are too many complaints to be ignored.

I'm not a mechanic, so the inner workings of these systems is beyond my skill level. But if the throttle is indeed a "throttle by wire" system, and if the transmission is also electronic, then it's not hard to imagine a software failure.

Software-based safety systems that lack active physical backups (I'm not sure of the exact terminology, but the kind of physical safety mechanism where the computer has to constantly work to bypass said safety, and if the computer fails for any reason, the safety is suddenly "unsuppressed" and kicks in) are notoriously unreliable.

The Therac-25 comes to mind.


First thing that came to mind for me too. Mechanical designs that act as fail safes for software errors. Unfortunately a car is far ore complex than the Therac was. It was essentially just two or three moving parts with various shields in place to halt or disperse the radiation beam.
 
2010-02-24 01:06:26 PM  
impaler: If any of this is remotely true, that TWO components of the car could simultaneously fail, the car manufacturer known as Toyota should cease to exist.

While it is impossible to design a throttle system that could never fail, things stick, sensors error. It should be nearly impossible for that to fail at the same time as the brake sensors, which should kill any >5%-10% throttle when >5%-10% braking is applied. And in the 'that should never happen, but hey, people win the lottery even though it is 100 million to one' event that that does happen, the ability to put the car in neutral should not fail.

I am inclined to believe this women isn't 100% honest, and that the above scenario is in fact impossible, because you have to be one incompetent engineer to design a system where the throttle, brakes and shifting don't fail-safe.


Toyota's electronic throttle system does not have a brake override. If the accelerator and brake are both pressed, the car will rev the engine and apply the brakes.

KyngNothing: I believe a lot of the key-fob cars require you to hold down the start button for 3-5 seconds to turn the car off...

I believe Cadillac has the right system here. The CTS I sat in at the auto show the car used a keyless ignition system, but the start/stop switch was a 3 position switch that felt like a key and was on the steering column where I expect a key to be, making turning off the car more intuitive and quicker.

You can see the 'key' in the lower right steering wheel opening here. (new window)
 
2010-02-24 01:06:49 PM  
Deucednuisance: See that little green light in the pic you posted? It's green because that can is in park. The rectangular button that the light is part is pushed in to shift into part. It's not a "parking brake button", that a pedal on the left.

Sounds like operator error.


You are exactly right... please re-read my post to get the point I'm making. It is extremely unintuitive... many of the stories (the CHP officer accident, in a loaner Lexus for example) are in rentals. There is no reason to make such an ass-backwards design when virtually 100% of other cars on the road have "park" in the gear selection. Same for push-button power needing a 3-second hold time to shut down with no written warning on instructions on it. All of this seems obvious if you own one, but as a renter, loaner, or new car owner it isn't.
 
2010-02-24 01:07:26 PM  
Prank Call of Cthulhu: HotWingConspiracy: She managed to make a phone call during all of this? Sorry, I don't buy it.

A woman having a hard time driving a vehicle, but no problem talking on the phone? What's so implausible about that?


Hmmmm

Ok, I buy it.
 
2010-02-24 01:07:42 PM  
"Smart cars"? I say evil AI cars bent on human subjegation!
 
2010-02-24 01:07:52 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

thm-a03.yimg.com
Mona Lisa Vito: 'Cause Chevy didn't make a 327 in '55, the 327 didn't come out till '62. And it wasn't offered in the Bel Air with a four-barrel carb till '64. However, in 1964, the correct ignition timing would be four degrees before top-dead-center
 
2010-02-24 01:07:53 PM  
Absolute bullshiat. This whole "investigation" by Congress has been nothing but a huge publicity stunt.
 
2010-02-24 01:08:21 PM  
GoodOmens: oldfarthenry: Let's see - the government pours BILLIONS into the domestic auto industry then TA-DA - their major competition gets raked over the coals over recall issues.

Sorry, lady - I know the UAW is paying you a lot of money to testi-lie but I'm smellin' a conspiracy!
*adjusts tin foil hat*

Considering there are NOT similar problems with other foreign car companies such as Hyundai, Honda, Subaru, BMW, Nissan, Mercedes (and I can continue on). I see a lot of holes in your theory.


They didn't close their only UAW-organized plant or get close to being number one in market share.
 
2010-02-24 01:08:21 PM  
aimtastic: I believe that something really bad happened to this lady's car. I believe that she believes the story she's telling. But I also believe that the combination of panic at the time, the attention she's gotten since then, and a potential payday in the future have significantly altered the story that she believes is true.

this.
 
2010-02-24 01:08:45 PM  
I wonder if the emergency brakes on these particular cars are mechanical. I'm willing to bet they are...

//No idea if its been looked into or not, but the thought keeps coming up in my mind
 
2010-02-24 01:08:45 PM  
I can't wait for the used toyota prices to plummet so I can buy one. I'm not a pussy so I'm not afraid of my cars.
 
2010-02-24 01:09:18 PM  
alywa: Deucednuisance: See that little green light in the pic you posted? It's green because that can is in park. The rectangular button that the light is part is pushed in to shift into part. It's not a "parking brake button", that a pedal on the left.

Sounds like operator error.

You are exactly right... please re-read my post to get the point I'm making. It is extremely unintuitive... many of the stories (the CHP officer accident, in a loaner Lexus for example) are in rentals. There is no reason to make such an ass-backwards design when virtually 100% of other cars on the road have "park" in the gear selection. Same for push-button power needing a 3-second hold time to shut down with no written warning on instructions on it. All of this seems obvious if you own one, but as a renter, loaner, or new car owner it isn't.


see, the problem I have with people complaining about the push button hold requiring 5 seconds to turn off is that ITS EXACTLY LIKE THE COMPUTER YOU"RE USING RIGHT NOW.
I mean, haven't you ever had to hard shut down a computer? You hold down the power button for 5 seconds til it turns off.
 
2010-02-24 01:09:49 PM  
I would love to see cars come with a FootCam(tm) that stores the video in the car's blackbox. Then there won't be any question as to what the feet were doing...
 
2010-02-24 01:10:00 PM  
Quick question - don't all of these cars that are having these problems have the little "black box" or whatever they call the recorder? Do these recorders only record the speeds before impact, or are they always recording? What exactly do they record?
 
2010-02-24 01:11:06 PM  
Jaws_Victim: mantabulous: Eddie Adams from Torrance: God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

You forget that it's all part of his plan. His ways are beyond your understanding.

Bullshiat! 6 miles at 100 mph? Thats 600 miles! That's TORTURE!


What kind of retard math are you doing?
 
2010-02-24 01:11:21 PM  
I don't know....

The lady sounds like she rehearsed what she said, and it's awfully hard for me to believe what she said.

I'm assuming she stands to receive some significant amount of compensation for her 'distress' and new found 'terror' that prevents her from living a normal life. Plus, some people would just do everything they can to soak up attention.

According to the internet 2.3 million cars are affected by this problem. And the problem is defined as an accelerator problem. No mention of a shifting/braking problem. Of those 2.3 million cars, only a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny percentage actually suffer from the problem. It has to do with a particular part that, with wear, in certain situations, can cause the pedal to 'stick'.

Toyota has acknowledged the problem and is doing all sorts of damage control to address the issue. It seems unlikely to me that they'd do all that, but then also, try to cover up aspects of the problem; that would almost certainly come out anyway.

Here is what Toyota recommends you do should your pedal get stuck...

• If you need to stop immediately, the vehicle can be controlled by stepping on the brake pedal with both feet using firm and steady pressure. Do not pump the brake pedal as it will deplete the vacuum utilized for the power brake assist.
• Shift the transmission gear selector to the Neutral (N) position and use the brakes to make a controlled stop at the side of the road and turn off the engine.

I don't know - it all sounds awfully fishy.

People are awfully opportunistic and awfully gullible. Plenty of people screw up while driving and if you give them a sliver of plausible deniability, they'll jump at it. Some of them might even *believe* it.
 
2010-02-24 01:11:24 PM  
The local rag here carried a headline stating "toyota deaths have surged" and the article went on to say that there were 34 deaths that MAY have been due to this problem over the last 10 years. I'm not trying to be an ass here or anything, but if these numbers are correct, how does this recall stack up against others? I remember the big Explorer recall due to tires. Were there many fatalities involved there?

Honestly, just asking.
 
2010-02-24 01:11:39 PM  
I have a hard time believing her. First, in my car this would be impossible; I suppose with a push-button ignition and a totally mechanical gear shift this might be possible but it seems unlikely. More importantly she has definitely been coached to give this speech and she's defintely given it more than once. People who really are panicked do not remember the kinds of details that she seemed very certain about. Something certainly happened but reality probably only bears passing resemblance to her story.
 
2010-02-24 01:12:01 PM  
I_C_Weener: I_C_Weener: floor9: It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

So yeah, apparently that won't help.

I am naming the neighbor's Toyota "Carrie".

Wait. I meant "Christine". Carrie was the teenager with PMS problems. Christine was the haunted car.



I dare you to ride your bike by it and yell "Creepy Carrie! Creepy Carrie!"
 
2010-02-24 01:12:04 PM  
alywa: Deucednuisance: See that little green light in the pic you posted? It's green because that can is in park. The rectangular button that the light is part is pushed in to shift into part. It's not a "parking brake button", that a pedal on the left.

Sounds like operator error.

You are exactly right... please re-read my post to get the point I'm making. It is extremely unintuitive... many of the stories (the CHP officer accident, in a loaner Lexus for example) are in rentals. There is no reason to make such an ass-backwards design when virtually 100% of other cars on the road have "park" in the gear selection. Same for push-button power needing a 3-second hold time to shut down with no written warning on instructions on it. All of this seems obvious if you own one, but as a renter, loaner, or new car owner it isn't.


True. No one in my immediate or extended family owns a Toyota. (Why yes, I live in Michigan, how did you know?). I had never heard of such a thing before the recalls... although I've driven in a few, including a Prius. Anyway, it still seems fairly stupid to me.

That said, whenever I rent a car or drive an unfamiliar work car, I try to figure out all the weird crap about it before I take off.

But in a panic situation, who knows. I might just forget. Or I might not have had time before leaving to go over all the random crap on the car. Who knows.

But it's a good point. Why not have a little sticker or something that explains how to turn the car off?
 
2010-02-24 01:12:13 PM  
spencurai: I can't wait for the used toyota prices to plummet so I can buy one. I'm not a pussy so I'm not afraid of my cars.

So much this...I want to get my hands on one of those newer FJs...hope to see them being dumped at fire-sale prices soon.
 
2010-02-24 01:12:17 PM  
Giltric: Has there been any testimony from men in regards to their cars accelerating on their own?

Not that I don't trust women.....but they are inattentive drivers.

And $ome of them might think they ju$t $pilled hot coffee in their lap ju$t becau$e they drive a Toyota.....


Yes look into Mark Saylor, a 20 year highway patrol veteran, whose entire family was killed due to a similar incident. Witnesses claim the wheels of his car were actually on fire due to the heavy breaking he used to try and stop the car.
 
2010-02-24 01:12:38 PM  
So, she was in a Lexus that "rocketed" up to 100mph? Really? 100?

My old POS Dodge motorhome that was built somewhere around the end of the Carter administration has this funky throttle linkage. If you floor the throttle (going up a hill, for example) the carb locks wide open. This will easily push my old beater up into the 90-95mph range before I can either kick around under the dash to dislodge the linkage or shut off the ignition.

I would hope that a late model luxury sedan would have more than a 5-10mph gain on my old 440 is all I'm saying...
 
2010-02-24 01:12:41 PM  
Katie98_KT: The parking brake has a light. If the light is on you're not going anywhere, how hard is that?

Except that's not the parking brake, honey.

Watch where you're throwing them "stupids" around, now.

alywa: Not sure, but I found it all very odd. It seems like Toyota just went with different for different's sake... ie "Hey look, its a funky hybrid car with a funky transmission. Isn't that futuristic and cool!?!?!?!"

It's pretty much the same layout as an old on-the-column shifter, or frankly a center console one if you can rotate objects in mental space.

Not to be picking on you, or anything.
 
2010-02-24 01:13:20 PM  
z.about.com

Google tells me this is the interior of a 2007 Lexus ES3500. Here's a closeup of the gearshift:

img641.imageshack.us


So if putting it into Neutral didn't work, it's probably because there is a horrifically retarded computer sitting between the gearshift and the actuators in the transmission.

If they had certifications on drive-by-wire systems even a TENTH of the robustness of fly-by-wire systems on commercial airlines, I'd be happy.
=Smidge=
 
2010-02-24 01:13:32 PM  
Wow this is so scary on a personal note. In 1971, I was driving my Dad's (VERY Fast) 426 cu. in. 1969 Ford LTD on Northern State Parkway on Long Island when the gas pedal stuck in the floored poition. (Hey, I liked to pass quickly...I was a teenager).

The accelerator linkage had caught, I later found. Soon I was rocketing forward at 100 mph on a winding parkway, dodging slower moving cars, until I got near an exit in Westbury that I knew to be fairly long and straight. The brakes weren't stopping the car, so I turned off the engine, promply blowing the engine, but I was able to get the car to stop. Ford replaced the engine in warranty.

If turning off the ignition wold not have worked like it has not worked in these Toyota/Lexus incidents, I would not be here to type this.


www.dannywhitfield.com

It was a great car ... sharkskin seats and all!
 
2010-02-24 01:13:44 PM  
Brakes are for pussies.
 
2010-02-24 01:13:46 PM  
Katie98_KT: alywa: Deucednuisance: See that little green light in the pic you posted? It's green because that can is in park. The rectangular button that the light is part is pushed in to shift into part. It's not a "parking brake button", that a pedal on the left.

Sounds like operator error.

You are exactly right... please re-read my post to get the point I'm making. It is extremely unintuitive... many of the stories (the CHP officer accident, in a loaner Lexus for example) are in rentals. There is no reason to make such an ass-backwards design when virtually 100% of other cars on the road have "park" in the gear selection. Same for push-button power needing a 3-second hold time to shut down with no written warning on instructions on it. All of this seems obvious if you own one, but as a renter, loaner, or new car owner it isn't.

see, the problem I have with people complaining about the push button hold requiring 5 seconds to turn off is that ITS EXACTLY LIKE THE COMPUTER YOU"RE USING RIGHT NOW.
I mean, haven't you ever had to hard shut down a computer? You hold down the power button for 5 seconds til it turns off.


You've never worked in technical support have you?
 
2010-02-24 01:14:15 PM  
Katie98_KT: alywa: Deucednuisance: See that little green light in the pic you posted? It's green because that can is in park. The rectangular button that the light is part is pushed in to shift into part. It's not a "parking brake button", that a pedal on the left.

Sounds like operator error.

You are exactly right... please re-read my post to get the point I'm making. It is extremely unintuitive... many of the stories (the CHP officer accident, in a loaner Lexus for example) are in rentals. There is no reason to make such an ass-backwards design when virtually 100% of other cars on the road have "park" in the gear selection. Same for push-button power needing a 3-second hold time to shut down with no written warning on instructions on it. All of this seems obvious if you own one, but as a renter, loaner, or new car owner it isn't.

see, the problem I have with people complaining about the push button hold requiring 5 seconds to turn off is that ITS EXACTLY LIKE THE COMPUTER YOU"RE USING RIGHT NOW.
I mean, haven't you ever had to hard shut down a computer? You hold down the power button for 5 seconds til it turns off.


The problem is that it's a new method for turning on and off a car. For years we have been used to key based ignition. Turning the key immediately starts or stops the engine. In a panicked situation, I'm not thinking about applying methods used in various other technologies, I'm thinking about my practical knowledge of how I operate a car.

It would be like having to search for a key to shut off your computer when your boss walks in while you're watching midget porn.
 
2010-02-24 01:14:17 PM  
davidw001
The failures all involved tread separation-the tread peeling off followed often by tire disintegration. If that happened, and the vehicle was running at speed, there was a high likelihood of the vehicle leaving the road and rolling over. Many rollovers cause serious injury and even death; it has been estimated that over 250 deaths and more than 3,000 serious injuries resulted from these failures.
 
2010-02-24 01:14:29 PM  
birdistasty: Quick question - don't all of these cars that are having these problems have the little "black box" or whatever they call the recorder? Do these recorders only record the speeds before impact, or are they always recording? What exactly do they record?

Another thing that leads me to believe that she didn't crash, thus the whole "grace of God" thing that pisses people off so much.

spencurai: I can't wait for the used toyota prices to plummet so I can buy one. I'm not a pussy so I'm not afraid of my cars.

I've definitely given thought to that; they're just so boring! Well, usually anyhow.
 
2010-02-24 01:14:40 PM  
Lately, even on big trucks, there's no actual actual physical linkage to the engine. Many don't even have mechanical shifting; it's all becoming processor controlled. There are systems that control starting, and stopping the engine, to ensure a short cooling time to prolong engine component life. Every one of these systems has experiencer failures, but at least the brakes are still under driver control. DOT mandates what's allowable, so even the completely incompetent driver can stop.
With cars, alas, there are models that have eliminated all direct control from the operator, rendering him no more in charge than the back seat passenger.
 
2010-02-24 01:15:02 PM  
way south: impaler: Ingaba: hb0mb: In my car, a 2006 bmw, there is no key to turn. you put it into a slot and press a button. much like to make a phone call, you press a button on the steering wheel. I'm willing to bet the lexus is probably comprable to my car.

According to Toyota, if you press the start button and hold it for 2-5 seconds the car will turn off.

I have to go to the "start" menu in order to shut this thing down? Who designed this monstrosity!?

Its not the automakers fault if you don't know how to stop your own damn vehicle.

/Its as simple as shifting up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, brakes, accelerator, brakes, accelerator, start!
/Or crawl out on the hood and disconnect the battery cable.


LOL
 
2010-02-24 01:15:08 PM  
My Toyota is a 10-year-old Echo. An automatic (suck it, manual shift).

Cheap econobox FTW... It does have a computer, but I'm pretty sure that mostly controls the fuel system, not the brakes or accelerator.

Guess I'll hold on to it for awhile longer. Still drives pretty good. And it stops. And I'm pretty sure I could get it over 85 mph only if I were going down a long, straight hill. With no wind.
 
2010-02-24 01:15:21 PM  
nyuhsuk:
Bullshiat! 6 miles at 100 mph? Thats 600 miles! That's TORTURE!

What kind of retard math are you doing?


6 Miles times 100 mph is obviously 600 miles miles per hour. You *combine* the labels, stupid.
 
2010-02-24 01:15:21 PM  
www.aitcs.com.au
 
2010-02-24 01:15:46 PM  
Deucednuisance: Sounds like operator error.

Just like all the typos in that post. Yikes.

/Management regrets the error.
 
2010-02-24 01:16:14 PM  
GoodOmens: darcsun: Story of hers is complete bunk. Throwing a car into reverse at that speed will gernade the transmission, at best. At worst, a RWD car could flip if the driveshaft came loose and pole vaulted the car. Here is a video of a guy racing his mustang and accidentally putting the car in reverse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNLz9E92-FU

With a electronic transmission the car won't let you put it in reverse, software in the ecu protects the car from this occurring. You can try physically, but nothing will happen.


From the Lexus website: (new window)Six-speed paddle-shift sequential automatic Electronically Controlled Transmission with intelligence

heh.. intelligence huh?
 
2010-02-24 01:16:22 PM  
Deucednuisance: Except that's not the parking brake, honey.

Watch where you're throwing them "stupids" around, now


yes, it is. the button above the gear shift with the giant P on it, is a parking brake.
 
2010-02-24 01:16:33 PM  
Prank Call of Cthulhu: Actually, now that I think about, maybe the reason it took so long was that god had to shove his feet through the floorboard and stop the thing Flintstone's style.

One night I dreamed I was driving along the beach with the Lord.
Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.
In each scene I noticed skidmarks in the sand.
Sometimes there were two sets of skidmarks,
other times there was one only.
This bothered me because I noticed that during the low periods of my life,
when I was suffering from anguish,
sorrow or defeat,
I could see only one set of skidmarks ,
so I said to the Lord,
You promised me Lord,
that if I followed you,
you would walk with me always.
But I have noticed that during the most trying periods of my life
there has only been one set of skidmarks in the sand.
Why, when I needed you most, have you not been there for me?
The Lord replied,
The years when you have seen only one set of skidmarks,
my child, is when I shoved my feet through the floorboard flinstone's style.
 
2010-02-24 01:16:36 PM  
Tony_Pepperoni: Like I say in all these car threads...
Emergency Kill Switch.


Problem solved.


Not that simple. You want to maintain power to the brakes and steering so you don't want the engine to die. You need an emergency neutral/engine idle. Something like that.
 
2010-02-24 01:16:47 PM  
CrowdSceneExtra: Toyota's electronic throttle system does not have a brake override. If the accelerator and brake are both pressed, the car will rev the engine and apply the brakes.

The only reason I can think they went that route, is that they're afraid of accidental deceleration. But given the choice between accidental deceleration, and accidental acceleration, it should be a no brainer to choose deceleration.
 
2010-02-24 01:16:54 PM  
bongmiester: Fearing death, she called husband.

driving 100mph in an out of control vehicle she searches for her cell phone and calls her husband. i'm surprised none of the congressmen jumped on this.


They didn't cause they want to believe her, easier to go after that darn greedy corporation.
 
2010-02-24 01:16:55 PM  
alywa: There is no reason to make such an ass-backwards design when virtually 100% of other cars on the road have "park" in the gear selection. Same for push-button power needing a 3-second hold time to shut down with no written warning on instructions on it. All of this seems obvious if you own one, but as a renter, loaner, or new car owner it isn't.

This does bring up an excellent point, though:

DO NOT OPERATE AN UNFAMILIAR VEHICLE UNTIL YOU'VE TAKEN THE TIME TO UNDERSTAND THE CONTROLS!

The first thing I do whenever I get a rental car is make sure I know how to operate the lights and high beams, the wipers and washer fluid sprayers, the parking brake, cruise control, air conditioner, defrosters, and the emergency hazard lights. And if any of those controls aren't immediately obvious, I grab the manual and look it up. Because there is absolutely zero standardization of any of those controls on cars. And now that shifters and ignitions are getting all kinds of crazy customization, just add those to the list.

It is unconscionable that anyone would take control of a one-ton potential killing machine without taking at least five minutes to figure out the basics of how to operate it.
 
2010-02-24 01:17:05 PM  
theoriginalslash: My Toyota is a 10-year-old Echo. An automatic (suck it, manual shift).

Dude that sucks. An okay commuter car with a manual (my wife had an '00 coupe) but I can't imagine the lack of "go" with a slushbox.

"With no wind." No f*cking sh*t... those cars can make it home on sail power if needed. Not fun on windy days.
 
2010-02-24 01:17:56 PM  
Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't know....

The lady sounds like she rehearsed what she said


Really? Someone testifying before congress on T.V. may have rehearsed their speech? Thank God you caught that!
 
2010-02-24 01:17:58 PM  
Tony_Pepperoni: Like I say in all these car threads...
Emergency Kill Switch.


Problem solved.


Problem with that is that if the kill switch is to the computer, that will also knock out the power steering, power brakes (anti-lock, etc), and electronic stability control which would make the vehicle difficult to drive. Lose/lose situation.
 
2010-02-24 01:18:01 PM  
You do not have privilges to
apply the brake command.
Please contact your system administrator.
 
2010-02-24 01:18:05 PM  
nyuhsuk: Jaws_Victim: mantabulous: Eddie Adams from Torrance: God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

You forget that it's all part of his plan. His ways are beyond your understanding.

Bullshiat! 6 miles at 100 mph? Thats 600 miles! That's TORTURE!

What kind of retard math are you doing?


Welcome to Fark, you will get used to our new math.
 
2010-02-24 01:18:23 PM  
Fark_Guy_Rob: I don't know....

The lady sounds like she rehearsed what she said, and it's awfully hard for me to believe what she said.

I'm assuming she stands to receive some significant amount of compensation for her 'distress' and new found 'terror' that prevents her from living a normal life. Plus, some people would just do everything they can to soak up attention.

According to the internet 2.3 million cars are affected by this problem. And the problem is defined as an accelerator problem. No mention of a shifting/braking problem. Of those 2.3 million cars, only a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny percentage actually suffer from the problem. It has to do with a particular part that, with wear, in certain situations, can cause the pedal to 'stick'.

Toyota has acknowledged the problem and is doing all sorts of damage control to address the issue. It seems unlikely to me that they'd do all that, but then also, try to cover up aspects of the problem; that would almost certainly come out anyway.

Here is what Toyota recommends you do should your pedal get stuck...

• If you need to stop immediately, the vehicle can be controlled by stepping on the brake pedal with both feet using firm and steady pressure. Do not pump the brake pedal as it will deplete the vacuum utilized for the power brake assist.
• Shift the transmission gear selector to the Neutral (N) position and use the brakes to make a controlled stop at the side of the road and turn off the engine.

I don't know - it all sounds awfully fishy.

People are awfully opportunistic and awfully gullible. Plenty of people screw up while driving and if you give them a sliver of plausible deniability, they'll jump at it. Some of them might even *believe* it.


1) When you go before a hearing of any kind you will be coached. That is how it works from municipal court to the supreme court and a congressional hearing.

2) The word yesterday from the hearing was that the floor mat and pedal recall would fix "most" of the issues. "Most" doesn't cover everything, indicating there is more to it.
 
2010-02-24 01:18:30 PM  
Or, alternatively

The years when you have seen only one set of skidmarks,
my child, is when I was poopin for you.
 
2010-02-24 01:18:37 PM  
GoodOmens: PlusCestLaMeme: ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

Doesn't model year xxxx always come out in year xxxx-1?

Yea 2010's started appearing in Mid-late 2009. Depends on the manufacture but some have them as early as July/August.


there are 2011 models on lots now... I've been car shopping a lot lately... just bought a 'used' 2010 Kia Soul with 15K miles on it... yes, it's almost a year old.
 
2010-02-24 01:19:07 PM  
bhcompy: ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

The NHTSA contacted the people that currently own the car and they said they bought it with under 3000 miles from the woman in question after the incident, so I doubt there is any fabrication on that part of the issue.


Wow. Sold the car to a random schmoe after this, huh? "No, nothing at all wrong with the car..."

Hope she personally gains nothing from this.
 
2010-02-24 01:19:29 PM  
davidw001: The local rag here carried a headline stating "toyota deaths have surged" and the article went on to say that there were 34 deaths that MAY have been due to this problem over the last 10 years. I'm not trying to be an ass here or anything, but if these numbers are correct, how does this recall stack up against others? I remember the big Explorer recall due to tires. Were there many fatalities involved there?

Honestly, just asking.


I think it was around 100 deaths regarding the firestone tires.

One of the business decisions behind a recall is to calculate how much the recall would cost (lost sales, cost of parts etc) vs just paying out lawsuits for every time the problem would occur.

This problem could have been prevalent for several years before Toyota decided it was worth it financially to issue a recall.
 
2010-02-24 01:19:43 PM  
I have owned the same exact model Lexus ES350 and I believe the parking brake is fully mechanical as you can feel the spring pressure as you lock/unlock the sucker. I have no idea but can the parking brake effectively slow a car to a stop IF this throttle was in fact going out of control?
 
2010-02-24 01:20:24 PM  
Anyone who's ever had a laptop computer go crazy on them knows that electronic or virtual on/off switches are a stupid idea, because it relies on the system to work properly in order to function - when the problem you're trying to address is precisely that the system is NOT functioning properly. That's why I always thought laptops should have had a hard-wired "off" switch or battery-eject. Same for these ridiculous e-cars. Sure a "start" button looks cool, but what happens when the software or the wire goes kooky?
 
2010-02-24 01:20:26 PM  
"Smith's ride of terror began on Oct. 12, 2006, as the retired social worker was heading toward Knoxville in her new Lexus 350 ES.
As she pulled onto Interstate 40, Smith said, the car suddenly accelerated out of control. She took off the cruise control, hit the brakes, threw the car into reverse and even pulled the emergency brake. Nothing worked."

She is from Sevierville Tn... Her exit is 16 miles from Downtown Knoxville... do the math, she drove at 100 MPH from her exit all the way to down town Knoxville? Toyota needs to hire her to drive for there race division....

So she can drive through fairly heavy traffic (always is in that area) at 100 MPH, while digging through her purse to get her phone and call her hubby, and watch the clock to know the ordeal lasted 6 minutes????

Sounds like a social worker trying to increase the ol' retirement income to me... but I could be wrong...
 
2010-02-24 01:20:28 PM  
I didn't see any of this mentioned, so I'll post it:

The inability to shift into Neutral could have had ZERO to do with the electronics. This could have happened on ANY automatic transmission, even ones with 'mechanical' gear levers. Here's why:

An automatic transmission shifts by applying vacuum to the internal device. Your 'mechanical' connection is only mechanically switching the vacuum points.

In addition, vacuum is no longer produced in an engine at full throttle. What could have happened is that the woman noticed it was accelerating out of control, so she tried to brake repeatedly, causing there to be no more vacuum in the system.

THEN, she tried to shift, however without remaining vacuum, the transmission couldn't shift!

The power button sounds like a 'feature' where it won't let you shut the car off above a certain speed.

I'm going to say 'plausible'.
 
2010-02-24 01:20:38 PM  
"I put the car into all available gears, including neutral," she recalled about her fruitless attempt to slow the car down. Ms. Smith says she even put the car into reverse, in which position the gearshift remained as the car quickly reached a speed of 100mph.

Not impressed.

carpefactum.typepad.com
 
2010-02-24 01:20:40 PM  
I think everyone has missed the point...
CELLPHONES cause Toyotas to malfunction.

That's right, I said it.
CELLPHONES are teh EVIL cause of this.
I got $5 that says so right here...
 
2010-02-24 01:20:46 PM  
HansensDisease: The throttle cable in my 70's era Pontiac Ventura got jammed once. The butterfly valve was full open and it was not much fun getting the car to a stop.

This happened several times to me on my 1984 Pontiac Sunbuzzard. Pontiac excitement!
 
2010-02-24 01:21:17 PM  
Wow, some of you guys in this thread seem really farking threatened by the idea that maybe--just maybe--this could possibly be an electronic problem and that, if it happens to you, you and your loved ones will probably die in a fiery crash. You know, not everything comes down to personal responsibility. Some people really are just victims.
And telling people to just drive stick doesn't help. Our world is full of extremely complicated devices that can fail in spectacular ways. I shouldn't have to know exactly how an ipod works in order to guard against it, say, melting in my pocket and causing burns or something. Know what I'm saying?
 
2010-02-24 01:21:17 PM  
What is interesting is that most new planes today are completely fly by wire and yet are some of the safest forms of travel. Electronic controlled everything is not unsafe, it just seems Toyota farked it up.
 
2010-02-24 01:21:18 PM  
darcsun: Story of hers is complete bunk. Throwing a car into reverse at that speed will gernade the transmission, at best.

The ES350 has an electronically shifted transmission. I've been looking for a shop manual for it online that I don't have to pay for and haven't got one yet, so I'm not real sure, but it might not have 'shift linkages' per se. I'm thinking it doesn't.

They also advertise the ES350 as having "brake-by-wire" controlled by the VDIM module, with an emergency hydraulic backup "in the unlikely event of electronic failure".

I dunno, at first I thought this was crap but maybe it could be true. And if so, I want to know how to cause this intentionally. Mwa ha ha ha.
 
2010-02-24 01:21:46 PM  
theoriginalslash: My Toyota is a 10-year-old Echo. An automatic (suck it, manual shift).

Cheap econobox FTW... It does have a computer, but I'm pretty sure that mostly controls the fuel system, not the brakes or accelerator.

Guess I'll hold on to it for awhile longer. Still drives pretty good. And it stops. And I'm pretty sure I could get it over 85 mph only if I were going down a long, straight hill. With no wind.


You lie. Echo's disintegrate far before the 10 year mark.
 
2010-02-24 01:21:57 PM  
obzerver: From the Lexus website: (new window)Six-speed paddle-shift sequential automatic Electronically Controlled Transmission with intelligence

heh.. intelligence huh?


maybe the car was depressed...even if the accelerator wasn't
 
2010-02-24 01:22:08 PM  
Katie98_KT: yes, it is. the button above the gear shift with the giant P on it, is a parking brake.

Honey, I've owned a Prius for 5 years. It's not a parking brake.

That's a pedal on the side side, see it over there?

www.thetruthaboutcars.com

The button is the Park" gear selector.
 
2010-02-24 01:22:13 PM  
doglover: LOLIDRIVESTICKPAD

I always knew automatics were retarded, and this proves it. If it happened to me I'd try and hit the center wall maybe.


This. Another BIG reason why automatic transmission should be banned or something.
 
2010-02-24 01:22:23 PM  
GoodOmens: davidw001: The local rag here carried a headline stating "toyota deaths have surged" and the article went on to say that there were 34 deaths that MAY have been due to this problem over the last 10 years. I'm not trying to be an ass here or anything, but if these numbers are correct, how does this recall stack up against others? I remember the big Explorer recall due to tires. Were there many fatalities involved there?

Honestly, just asking.

I think it was around 100 deaths regarding the firestone tires.

One of the business decisions behind a recall is to calculate how much the recall would cost (lost sales, cost of parts etc) vs just paying out lawsuits for every time the problem would occur.

This problem could have been prevalent for several years before Toyota decided it was worth it financially to issue a recall.


What company do you work for?
 
2010-02-24 01:22:54 PM  
Women are allowed to drive?
 
2010-02-24 01:23:06 PM  
Treetop1000: I think everyone has missed the point...
CELLPHONES cause Toyotas to malfunction.

That's right, I said it.
CELLPHONES are teh EVIL cause of this.


Postal Penguin: What is interesting is that most new planes today are completely fly by wire and yet are some of the safest forms of travel.

...and you can't use cell phones on planes...

I think we're on to something here!
 
2010-02-24 01:23:06 PM  
Katie98_KT: ee, the problem I have with people complaining about the push button hold requiring 5 seconds to turn off is that ITS EXACTLY LIKE THE COMPUTER YOU"RE USING RIGHT NOW.
I mean, haven't you ever had to hard shut down a computer? You hold down the power button for 5 seconds til it turns off.


It's amazing, though, how many people don't know that and resort instead to yanking out the power cord from the back of the computer.

In fact, yanking out the power cord is such a universally understood method of "making it stop when all else fails" that perhaps instead of mounting a big red kill switch (which is only going to sit there daring you to press it) on the dash, they should mount a phony power cord in a receptacle in the dash. Yanking that cord out is now the new kill switch.

/No, not really
 
2010-02-24 01:23:39 PM  
flizzard: bhcompy: ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

The NHTSA contacted the people that currently own the car and they said they bought it with under 3000 miles from the woman in question after the incident, so I doubt there is any fabrication on that part of the issue.

Wow. Sold the car to a random schmoe after this, huh? "No, nothing at all wrong with the car..."

Hope she personally gains nothing from this.


Well, if you just bought a $40000 car and had it go all poltergeist on you you'd probably sell it and try and recoup cost as well since Toyota was in denial stage at the time
 
2010-02-24 01:24:05 PM  
GoodOmens: oldfarthenry: Let's see - the government pours BILLIONS into the domestic auto industry then TA-DA - their major competition gets raked over the coals over recall issues.

Sorry, lady - I know the UAW is paying you a lot of money to testi-lie but I'm smellin' a conspiracy!
*adjusts tin foil hat*

Considering there are NOT similar problems with other foreign car companies such as Hyundai, Honda, Subaru, BMW, Nissan, Mercedes (and I can continue on). I see a lot of holes in your theory.


Look at car manufacturers by sales volume and gross revenue and it makes a bit more sense. Toyota and Honda (along with the big three) tend to sell the ENTIRETY of merc/BMW/Vol/etc in a few days. Premium luxo imports are the least of Detroit's worries.
 
2010-02-24 01:24:14 PM  
StreetlightInTheGhetto: alywa: Deucednuisance: See that little green light in the pic you posted? It's green because that can is in park. The rectangular button that the light is part is pushed in to shift into part. It's not a "parking brake button", that a pedal on the left.

Sounds like operator error.

You are exactly right... please re-read my post to get the point I'm making. It is extremely unintuitive... many of the stories (the CHP officer accident, in a loaner Lexus for example) are in rentals. There is no reason to make such an ass-backwards design when virtually 100% of other cars on the road have "park" in the gear selection. Same for push-button power needing a 3-second hold time to shut down with no written warning on instructions on it. All of this seems obvious if you own one, but as a renter, loaner, or new car owner it isn't.

True. No one in my immediate or extended family owns a Toyota. (Why yes, I live in Michigan, how did you know?). I had never heard of such a thing before the recalls... although I've driven in a few, including a Prius. Anyway, it still seems fairly stupid to me.

That said, whenever I rent a car or drive an unfamiliar work car, I try to figure out all the weird crap about it before I take off.

But in a panic situation, who knows. I might just forget. Or I might not have had time before leaving to go over all the random crap on the car. Who knows.

But it's a good point. Why not have a little sticker or something that explains how to turn the car off?


It all depends on your dealer's initial orientation of the car. They should probably tell you (mine did and they probably all do now) but since it is a departure from the standard key system, I think you should take the personal responsibility to read on it before you drive (i.e. how to access and start a car if the FOB battery dies - which has happened to me while out and about). And who wants to leave a ugly looking sticker on your dash?
 
2010-02-24 01:24:18 PM  
Zukipilot: "Smith's ride of terror began on Oct. 12, 2006, as the retired social worker was heading toward Knoxville in her new Lexus 350 ES.
As she pulled onto Interstate 40, Smith said, the car suddenly accelerated out of control. She took off the cruise control, hit the brakes, threw the car into reverse and even pulled the emergency brake. Nothing worked."

She is from Sevierville Tn... Her exit is 16 miles from Downtown Knoxville... do the math, she drove at 100 MPH from her exit all the way to down town Knoxville? Toyota needs to hire her to drive for there race division....

So she can drive through fairly heavy traffic (always is in that area) at 100 MPH, while digging through her purse to get her phone and call her hubby, and watch the clock to know the ordeal lasted 6 minutes????

Sounds like a social worker trying to increase the ol' retirement income to me... but I could be wrong...


GODDAMN YOU ALL TO HELL.

BLUETOOTH. She. Was. Using. Blue. Tooth. God. Damn. It.

/bangs head slowly on desk
 
2010-02-24 01:24:18 PM  
Prank Call of Cthulhu: It's amazing, though, how many people don't know that and resort instead to yanking out the power cord from the back of the computer.

yanking it is just so much more satisfying
 
2010-02-24 01:24:23 PM  
Jaws_Victim: mantabulous: Eddie Adams from Torrance: God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

You forget that it's all part of his plan. His ways are beyond your understanding.

Bullshiat! 6 miles at 100 mph? Thats 600 miles! That's TORTURE!


WAT
 
2010-02-24 01:24:37 PM  
bhcompy: ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

The NHTSA contacted the people that currently own the car and they said they bought it with under 3000 miles from the woman in question after the incident, so I doubt there is any fabrication on that part of the issue.


Did they mention if the car had tried to kill anyone else?
/Perhaps it really didn't like its former owner =>
 
2010-02-24 01:24:37 PM  
"I put the car into all available gears including neutral, but then I put it in reverse and it remains in reverse as the car speeds to over 100 mph down the interstate."

What's the word I'm looking for here? hmmmm....

Oh, yes...bullshiat. Bullshiat is the word I'm looking for.
 
2010-02-24 01:24:38 PM  
This is just the first strike in the machines' war on mankind. It starts with the cars. Then moves on to our computers, TVs, microwaves. I'm kind of afraid of my iPod right now. I'm pretty sure it watches me as I sleep.
 
2010-02-24 01:25:26 PM  
rattchett: Dead for Tax Reasons: TheBitterest: FTA: "After six miles later, God intervened," and the car began to slow on it own, though the engine continued to rev itself in cycles."

Why does God get all the credit for stopping the car, but none of the blame for starting it in the first place?

that was teh devil's work

God told me the expression on her face was priceless.

/and by God I mean Phil the schizophrenic homeless guy.



Don't be so glib you hypocrite.
 
2010-02-24 01:25:34 PM  
Fark_Guy_Rob: davidw001
The failures all involved tread separation-the tread peeling off followed often by tire disintegration. If that happened, and the vehicle was running at speed, there was a high likelihood of the vehicle leaving the road and rolling over. Many rollovers cause serious injury and even death; it has been estimated that over 250 deaths and more than 3,000 serious injuries resulted from these failures.


Thanks man, I was just wondering if the Toyota numbers were close to the last big recall I could remember. Being in my local paper I would have guessed they were overblown. It's horrible anyone should lose their life because of an inferior product but I wonder if the media isn't turning this into the next swine flu?
 
2010-02-24 01:25:36 PM  
I'm skeptical... Something's not adding up with this woman's account. She's hurtling down the road at 100+ mph in a panic and she has the wherewithal to systematically try every single thing someone would suggest she try? And also calling her husband? And every system in the car simultaneously fails catastrophically? This happened well over a year ago, but she can remember every single detail and order of events with such clear and unambiguous detail? This happened so long ago and yet she chokes up at just the right time for dramatic effect?

My BS detector is lighting up...
 
2010-02-24 01:25:43 PM  
Deucednuisance: Katie98_KT: yes, it is. the button above the gear shift with the giant P on it, is a parking brake.

Honey, I've owned a Prius for 5 years. It's not a parking brake.

That's a pedal on the side side, see it over there?



The button is the Park" gear selector.


pretty sure that's just a manual version of the same thing. *shrugs* I know what you're talking about, my parents kept hitting it when they got the first prius.
 
2010-02-24 01:25:48 PM  
It's bullshiat that Toyota is getting raked over the coals for this.

Did the power windows still work? Roll down the window, sit on the door, tuck your shoulder and roll out of the car, problem solved. People act like just because the accelerator was at full throttle, putting it into neutral didn't work, the brakes didn't work, and turning the car off didn't work that this lady was out of options.
 
2010-02-24 01:25:48 PM  
I, too, have been one of the 'just put it in neutral and kill the ignition' people, as that's what I did when the throttle on my car (mbz e class) stuck (and even then, it was gunk in the FI system, was able to let it slowly throttle down after being off for 2-3 minutes, then start it again, go to the next signal light, repeat, all the way home).

If it's truly the case that the electronics are hosed and shifting the car does not take it out of gear, someone's gonna be on the bad end of a big lawsuit, and rightfully so. Duty, breach, cause, damages, all of the components of a really expensive class action suit.
 
2010-02-24 01:26:14 PM  
oldfarthenry: Let's see - the government pours BILLIONS into the domestic auto industry then TA-DA - their major competition gets raked over the coals over recall issues.

Sorry, lady - I know the UAW is paying you a lot of money to testi-lie but I'm smellin' a conspiracy!


I agree with you, the timing is incredibly suspicious.

That said, these are legitimate issues. Toyota has admitted to them. They do exist. I just find it curious that prior to the government takeover of GM, Toyota had an umblemished record. With the Prius's and all, the left loved them. Now, suddenly Toyota must answer before Congress. Next thing you'll know, the media will plant bombs in Toyota's, test drive them on the air, then trigger the bombs and blow the cars up. Not like they haven't done that before.
 
2010-02-24 01:26:44 PM  
nyuhsuk: I have owned the same exact model Lexus ES350 and I believe the parking brake is fully mechanical as you can feel the spring pressure as you lock/unlock the sucker. I have no idea but can the parking brake effectively slow a car to a stop IF this throttle was in fact going out of control?

No.
 
2010-02-24 01:26:45 PM  
TheFreshmanWIT: In addition, vacuum is no longer produced in an engine at full throttle. What could have happened is that the woman noticed it was accelerating out of control, so she tried to brake repeatedly, causing there to be no more vacuum in the system.

THEN, she tried to shift, however without remaining vacuum, the transmission couldn't shift!


Then how does an automatic shift up when at full throttle?
 
2010-02-24 01:27:24 PM  
nyuhsuk: It all depends on your dealer's initial orientation of the car. They should probably tell you (mine did and they probably all do now) but since it is a departure from the standard key system, I think you should take the personal responsibility to read on it before you drive (i.e. how to access and start a car if the FOB battery dies - which has happened to me while out and about). And who wants to leave a ugly looking sticker on your dash?

I'm not used to this "not having a key to use when the FOB battery dies" crap.

But what I'm saying is that having a sticker for cars with frequently changing drivers (work fleets, rentals, etc.) would not really be such a bad thing.
 
2010-02-24 01:27:35 PM  
After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop. I pulled it to the left median. With the car stopped and both feet still on the brake, the motor still revved up and down. At 35 mph it would not shut off. Finally, at 33 mph, I was able to turn the engine off.

Yeah. I was actually attending to some other stuff and wasn't paying attention or I might have intervened sooner. This goofball in Wyoming had prayed up a message about a show called "Family Guy" and that they were making graven images of me. I checked it out on Youtube and it's the same old guy with a beard and a white robe thing. Not worth smiting. I switch back and there's an emergency from this broad whose car is out of control and going 100 miles an hour. When she gets to the part where she's promising me 20% off the top, I flip the electronics off. I mean, she's driving a Lexus so I'm figuring 20% of something here.

By the way, honey, still waiting for that 20%. Got some pox and boils warming up. Just sitting here in my Dockers waiting for your check. See? No white robe. Got a nice full head of hair too Mister Seth MacFarlane. You, on the other hand, may begin to notice the onset of Male Pattern Baldness. Just saying.
 
2010-02-24 01:27:36 PM  
capnmonkey: Roll down the window, sit on the door, tuck your shoulder and roll out of the car

having rolled off a car going a measly 30 mph...I would not recommend this emergency plan
 
2010-02-24 01:28:23 PM  
Postal Penguin: What is interesting is that most new planes today are completely fly by wire and yet are some of the safest forms of travel. Electronic controlled everything is not unsafe, it just seems Toyota farked it up.

This. I was telling my friend the other day that a properly designed electronic throttle should be safer than a mechanical one.

The caveat being "properly designed."
 
2010-02-24 01:28:24 PM  
theoriginalslash: It starts with the cars. Then moves on to our computers, TVs, microwaves. I'm kind of afraid of my iPod right now.

"...And then it started playing Barry Manilow at full volume! And I couldn't make it stop!!! I pushed pause and then menu and then fast forward, and then all of them at once, but it just kept playing! And I don't even have any Barry Manilow in my iTunes library!!! I was so scared, I thought it would never stop..."

/Shivers
 
2010-02-24 01:28:38 PM  
impaler: The only reason I can think they went that route, is that they're afraid of accidental deceleration. But given the choice between accidental deceleration, and accidental acceleration, it should be a no brainer to choose deceleration.

Harry Chapin nods in assent.

PsyLord: Problem with that is that if the kill switch is to the computer, that will also knock out the power steering, power brakes (anti-lock, etc), and electronic stability control which would make the vehicle difficult to drive. Lose/lose situation.

It isn't that bad. I scrammed (killed the engine with the car in motion) a rental car once on a twisty back road in the hills once. Braking and steering weren't a problem. Jeering from the carful of submariners was. I got over it.
 
2010-02-24 01:28:41 PM  
 
2010-02-24 01:28:51 PM  
capnmonkey: It's bullshiat that Toyota is getting raked over the coals for this.

Did the power windows still work? Roll down the window, sit on the door, tuck your shoulder and roll out of the car, problem solved. People act like just because the accelerator was at full throttle, putting it into neutral didn't work, the brakes didn't work, and turning the car off didn't work that this lady was out of options.


Yeah, doing that at 100 MPH would solve all of your problems.
 
2010-02-24 01:28:56 PM  
Prank Call of Cthulhu: It's amazing, though, how many people don't know that and resort instead to yanking out the power cord from the back of the computer.

heh. what do these people do for laptops?
 
2010-02-24 01:29:04 PM  
With the car stopped and both feet still on the brake, the motor still revved up and down. At 35 mph it would not shut off. Finally, at 33 mph, I was able to turn the engine off.

If the car is stopped, why is the speedometer registering speed?
 
2010-02-24 01:29:09 PM  
[Disclosure] I'm an engineer. [/disclosure]

I don't approve of drive-by-wire.
We own three cars. Each of them has mechanical throttle and transmission linkages. The throttle on each vehicle is spring-loaded right on the axis of the throttle body: cut the cable or linkage, and it closes. The transmissions have mechanical linkages: push the lever into neutral, and it goes into neutral.

I will try to avoid buying a vehicle that doesn't have those features. If that means everyone in the family drives a Police Interceptor, I can live with that.
 
2010-02-24 01:29:25 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

umh... what year did the 07 model year go on sale? (hint: it wasn't 07)
 
2010-02-24 01:29:25 PM  
Goatspunk: Jaws_Victim: mantabulous: Eddie Adams from Torrance: God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

You forget that it's all part of his plan. His ways are beyond your understanding.

Bullshiat! 6 miles at 100 mph? Thats 600 miles! That's TORTURE!

WAT


what you people fail to understand is that the

EARTH HAS 4 CORNER
SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY
TIME CUBE
IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION.
4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH- No 1 Day God.
 
2010-02-24 01:29:25 PM  
Katie98_KT: pretty sure that's just a manual version of the same thing.

No.

Parking brake is mechanical. Uses a cable to physically engage the rear drums. Button's just a gear selector, that's all, has no capacity to engage the rear brakes.
 
2010-02-24 01:29:41 PM  
Barakku: nyuhsuk:
Bullshiat! 6 miles at 100 mph? Thats 600 miles! That's TORTURE!

What kind of retard math are you doing?

6 Miles times 100 mph is obviously 600 miles miles per hour. You *combine* the labels, stupid.


If you combine the labels, it's miles squared as you said retard.
 
2010-02-24 01:29:42 PM  
Kuroshin: Every single control system would have to fail all at once in a very specific way for this to happen. The engine ECU would have to set throttle to full and the tranny ECU would have to lock itself in drive, shift gears, and refuse to accept all inputs (that's three failures in one).

There's one word you've conveniently omitted here - Maximum Overdrive! What if a comet/alien thingie MADE this happen? HUH? HUH? What then, Mr Smart Mechanic Guy? You know, aliens have taken over Missile Siloes with nucular weapons using waves from there UFOs! So, do you really think Toyota has better designs than the military?!

/ps didn't you evar watch Killdozer?!!
 
2010-02-24 01:29:45 PM  
There is clearly something wrong with some of Toyota's products, but witnessing the blithering retardation of other drivers on a daily basis leads me to suspect a great deal of operator error behind a lot of these "runaway car" stories.

At least 30% of the drivers on the road don't seem to have mastered "forward," "backward" or "straight line" (as in "driving in a straight line" or "parking between two straight lines"), so I'm doubting that all of the accidents are purely mechanical failure. Just as most other accidents are mostly driver dumbassery.
 
2010-02-24 01:30:20 PM  
Katie98_KT: heh. what do these people do for laptops?

wethose people take the battery out.
 
2010-02-24 01:30:24 PM  
CrowdSceneExtra: Toyota's electronic throttle system does not have a brake override. If the accelerator and brake are both pressed, the car will rev the engine and apply the brakes.

And this is their single largest fault. My 1998 VW has this.

That and I want someone to stand up and point out if all these tards learned to drive a manual transmission, this would not be happening.
 
2010-02-24 01:30:37 PM  
HansensDisease: benlonghair: I want a cable that goes from the gas pedal to the injectors or carburetor

The throttle cable in my 70's era Pontiac Ventura got jammed once. The butterfly valve was full open and it was not much fun getting the car to a stop.


I had a buddy with a '72 Nova that did the exact same thing.
 
2010-02-24 01:30:41 PM  
mongbiohazard: I'm skeptical... Something's not adding up with this woman's account. She's hurtling down the road at 100+ mph in a panic and she has the wherewithal to systematically try every single thing someone would suggest she try? And also calling her husband? And every system in the car simultaneously fails catastrophically? This happened well over a year ago, but she can remember every single detail and order of events with such clear and unambiguous detail? This happened so long ago and yet she chokes up at just the right time for dramatic effect?

My BS detector is lighting up...


I really do hate all of you right now. RTFA, or failing that, RTFT, or failing that, STFU.

capnmonkey: It's bullshiat that Toyota is getting raked over the coals for this.

Did the power windows still work? Roll down the window, sit on the door, tuck your shoulder and roll out of the car, problem solved. People act like just because the accelerator was at full throttle, putting it into neutral didn't work, the brakes didn't work, and turning the car off didn't work that this lady was out of options.


Yes. That makes perfect sense.

I bet she could use some rope and tie the wheel straight like they did in Speed, too! While she got ready to jump out of the car! At 100 mph!
 
2010-02-24 01:30:49 PM  
This reeks of exaggeration and b.s. I'm no automotive design expert, but she's describing a complete failure of several independent systems. If these cars are really this badly built, we should be seeing hundreds of them careening off of roadways every day.

Most people like to think that they're a great driver who would calmly, step-by-step try various ways to get their vehicle back under control. In reality, she was probably yelling to herself "Ohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohnoohno" with her hands glued to the steering wheel, slamming both feet on the brakes. At some point she may have tried changing gears, using the parking brake etc. but hardly as she describes it. Maybe "god intervening" just happened to occur when she finally tried these other options.

I don't know if they have cross-examinations in these hearings, but if they do, I suspect that Toyota will have a field day poking holes in this woman's story.
 
2010-02-24 01:30:50 PM  
I re-read the article and saw the part where she mentioned the Bluetooth. That makes things more palatable; I'm willing to believe there was voice-dialing involved.

And I'd also forgotten about some of the push-button transmission systems. Hell, GM had those rather a long time ago.

But really, NO kill switch?
 
2010-02-24 01:30:51 PM  
Roy_G_Biv: GoodOmens: oldfarthenry: Let's see - the government pours BILLIONS into the domestic auto industry then TA-DA - their major competition gets raked over the coals over recall issues.

Sorry, lady - I know the UAW is paying you a lot of money to testi-lie but I'm smellin' a conspiracy!
*adjusts tin foil hat*

Considering there are NOT similar problems with other foreign car companies such as Hyundai, Honda, Subaru, BMW, Nissan, Mercedes (and I can continue on). I see a lot of holes in your theory.

They didn't close their only UAW-organized plant or get close to being number one in market share.


What would be the point? Taking out your #1 rival when you continue to make crappy cars would just mean someone would pick up the slack.

Hyundai surpassed Toyota's market share in the US for new cars and currently sits at #1. Why isn't GM targeting them?
 
2010-02-24 01:30:56 PM  
mongbiohazard: I'm skeptical... Something's not adding up with this woman's account. She's hurtling down the road at 100+ mph in a panic and she has the wherewithal to systematically try every single thing someone would suggest she try? And also calling her husband? And every system in the car simultaneously fails catastrophically? This happened well over a year ago, but she can remember every single detail and order of events with such clear and unambiguous detail? This happened so long ago and yet she chokes up at just the right time for dramatic effect?

My BS detector is lighting up...


I'm not saying she's not lying, but have you ever been in a harrowing experience? I remember vividly every detail of my first car accident(a head on collision) that happened 11 years ago, and after talking to others about it, it seems that my experience/memory is not uncommon(including the whole world seemingly moving in slow motion)
 
2010-02-24 01:31:33 PM  
How bout this. We train people to drive 100mph so that if and when their "luxury sports car" does accelerate past 45, they know how to drive it.



That, or just make sure there isn't a vagina behind the wheel.
 
2010-02-24 01:31:41 PM  
Deucednuisance: Katie98_KT: pretty sure that's just a manual version of the same thing.

No.

Parking brake is mechanical. Uses a cable to physically engage the rear drums. Button's just a gear selector, that's all, has no capacity to engage the rear brakes.


oh well, I admit my mistake in forgetting about that thing. Still, hitting the button DOES make the car go into park, and stop it moving. hence, the dude that couldn't figure out whether the car was in park is not is still a dummy.
 
2010-02-24 01:32:23 PM  
StreetlightInTheGhetto: I'm not used to this "not having a key to use when the FOB battery dies" crap.

Huh, there's a key IN my fob. See?

www.techno-fandom.org
 
2010-02-24 01:32:30 PM  
bluefelix: Wow, some of you guys in this thread seem really farking threatened by the idea that maybe--just maybe--this could possibly be an electronic problem and that, if it happens to you, you and your loved ones will probably die in a fiery crash. You know, not everything comes down to personal responsibility. Some people really are just victims.
And telling people to just drive stick doesn't help. Our world is full of extremely complicated devices that can fail in spectacular ways. I shouldn't have to know exactly how an ipod works in order to guard against it, say, melting in my pocket and causing burns or something. Know what I'm saying?


There probably IS a problem. But the solution to that problem isn't solved by dragging people in front of Congress, lying to them, and then insisting Toyota fix a problem that just isn't as stated. The problem is to get some actual data (tip: data doesn't have an emotional/financial attachment to the conclusion) and present it. Have Toyota fix the actual problem, not fix little Suzy Cantdrive's emotional trauma at being unable to control her vehicle.
 
2010-02-24 01:32:41 PM  
Non story... two words: Woman Driver.
It is not the car's fault, it is the driver's failure to be able to deal with ANY driving situation.
 
2010-02-24 01:32:44 PM  
Katie98_KT: heh. what do these people do for laptops?

Probably start screaming, "OH MY GOD!!! I UNPLUGGED IT AND IT STILL WON'T SHUT OFF, IT MUST BE POSSESSED!!!!" until they remember about the battery, then flip it over, accidentally eject the DVD drive instead of the battery, then accidentally drop it, at which point it shuts off...for good.

But that's just my guess.
 
2010-02-24 01:32:50 PM  
mrshowrules: You are misrepersenting my point. All I said it "makes you wonder" why Toyota isn't coming out with a statement regarding this testimony. Your point about why they would do this is certainly possible.


It doesn't make me wonder at all. Common sense would tell you that they'll be eviscerated by politicians and the press, and make themselves look like bad guys, if they immediately jump all over this lady's story. She was there to tug the heartstrings and get some emotional sympathy worked up...
 
2010-02-24 01:32:58 PM  
FTfA: "After six miles later, God intervened,"

Yeah up until that point he was just farking with you!
 
2010-02-24 01:33:18 PM  
GoodOmens: Considering there are NOT similar problems with other foreign car companies such as Hyundai, Honda, Subaru, BMW, Nissan, Mercedes (and I can continue on). I see a lot of holes in your theory.

you really are going to compare Subaru to Toyota?

Maybe Germany wasn't starting a war because they didn't also attack Botswana when they were plowing their way through France.
 
2010-02-24 01:33:27 PM  
GoodOmens: Hyundai surpassed Toyota's market share in the US for new cars and currently sits at #1. Why isn't GM targeting them?

They are, but just in marketing(10 year drivetrain warranty up from 3 year 36k a few years back)
 
2010-02-24 01:33:27 PM  
impaler: Then how does an automatic shift up when at full throttle?

Yes, good call on that. Vaccuum assists the brakes; automatic transmissions have independent hydraulic systems, thus the "transmission fluid" reservoir.

Man, Farkers should stick to arguing about politics, parenting, and hating Nickelback. Engineering is not a strong suit around here.
 
2010-02-24 01:33:55 PM  
Prank Call of Cthulhu: then accidentally drop it, at which point it shuts off...for good.

no, it still works fine.
 
2010-02-24 01:33:56 PM  
impaler: TheFreshmanWIT: In addition, vacuum is no longer produced in an engine at full throttle. What could have happened is that the woman noticed it was accelerating out of control, so she tried to brake repeatedly, causing there to be no more vacuum in the system.

THEN, she tried to shift, however without remaining vacuum, the transmission couldn't shift!

Then how does an automatic shift up when at full throttle?


It has a vacuum reservoir, similar to your brakes. There is a check-valve at the end of the vacuum supply to the brake booster, so I'd suspect it is the same way for the transmission.

It would be easily possible that the transmission was trying to shift up/down frequently while at full throttle (bouncing between 4th and 5th gear? could explain why it topped out at 100 mph) which drained all the vacuum. In addition, it is entirely possible the car is designed with the same reservoir for brakes as transmission.

As a software engineer, I have no problem attesting this to a software problem. I've seen some of the clueless people who have jobs in this industry, and wouldn't doubt that severe mistakes like this could be made.
 
2010-02-24 01:34:06 PM  
Kuroshin: floor9: manimal2878: %100 bullshiat.

I don't know about that, man. There are too many complaints to be ignored.

I'm not a mechanic, so the inner workings of these systems is beyond my skill level. But if the throttle is indeed a "throttle by wire" system, and if the transmission is also electronic, then it's not hard to imagine a software failure.

Software-based safety systems that lack active physical backups (I'm not sure of the exact terminology, but the kind of physical safety mechanism where the computer has to constantly work to bypass said safety, and if the computer fails for any reason, the safety is suddenly "unsuppressed" and kicks in) are notoriously unreliable.

The Therac-25 comes to mind.


I *am* a mechanic, and I'm also calling bullshiat on this one.

Every single control system would have to fail all at once in a very specific way for this to happen. The engine ECU would have to set throttle to full and the tranny ECU would have to lock itself in drive, shift gears, and refuse to accept all inputs (that's three failures in one).

Sorry, but no. Car management systems are not designed that way. Two separate computers would have to fail in very specific ways at the same time. The simplest answer is that the lady is lying about the tranny locking up because she is like the local Fark Brigade who wants everything to be Toyota's fault beyond any shadow of a doubt.

She didn't shift to Neutral, the car didn't try to re-start itself when her hubby allegedly moved the gear selector (WTF kind of bullshiat is that?!), and she didn't respond with all of that precision while playing Hercules on the brake pedal (ummmm, power assist and the ABS make that pointless - brake systems are not direct-control anymore).

She's making shiat up. End of story.


I'm not a mechanic by trade, but I can and do work on modern vehicles. Iv'e seen faulty grounds cause all sorts of seemingly unrelated problems at once.

I don't find her story credible, but I doubt the systems are completely separate. Although modern brakes have power assist and ABS they are still have a direct mechanical (hydraulic) link, as far as I know there are no brake by wire systems being used in modern cars.
 
2010-02-24 01:34:21 PM  
StreetlightInTheGhetto: Did the power windows still work? Roll down the window, sit on the door, tuck your shoulder and roll out of the car, problem solved. People act like just because the accelerator was at full throttle, putting it into neutral didn't work, the brakes didn't work, and turning the car off didn't work that this lady was out of options.

Yes. That makes perfect sense.

I bet she could use some rope and tie the wheel straight like they did in Speed, too! While she got ready to jump out of the car! At 100 mph


Are the people jumping to Toyota's defense really so ridiculous that my statement is not identified as obvious sarcasm?

I kinda figured that suggesting a 60 year old woman should hurl herself out a car window at 100mph would be quickly understood as sarcasm...though I guess it might be the evolution of the "put it in neutral and hit the brakes" defenders.
 
2010-02-24 01:35:23 PM  
StreetlightInTheGhetto: nyuhsuk: It all depends on your dealer's initial orientation of the car. They should probably tell you (mine did and they probably all do now) but since it is a departure from the standard key system, I think you should take the personal responsibility to read on it before you drive (i.e. how to access and start a car if the FOB battery dies - which has happened to me while out and about). And who wants to leave a ugly looking sticker on your dash?

I'm not used to this "not having a key to use when the FOB battery dies" crap.

But what I'm saying is that having a sticker for cars with frequently changing drivers (work fleets, rentals, etc.) would not really be such a bad thing.


Very true. It really is a totally new set of instructions. What I meant by the FOB battery dying thing is how to start the car with the valet key when the wireless FOB can't be detected.
 
2010-02-24 01:35:31 PM  
Katie98_KT: oh well, I admit my mistake in forgetting about that thing. Still, hitting the button DOES make the car go into park, and stop it moving. hence, the dude that couldn't figure out whether the car was in park is not is still a dummy.

Oh, agreed, on all counts, especially since the green light comes on when in park, and goes dark when in gear.
 
2010-02-24 01:35:32 PM  
capnmonkey: I kinda figured that suggesting a 60 year old woman should hurl herself out a car window at 100mph would be quickly understood as sarcasm...

read the thread again.

sarcasm just helps you blend in with the rest of 'em
 
2010-02-24 01:35:34 PM  
medius: Katie98_KT: heh. what do these people do for laptops?

wethose people take the battery out.


Prank Call of Cthulhu: Katie98_KT: heh. what do these people do for laptops?

Probably start screaming, "OH MY GOD!!! I UNPLUGGED IT AND IT STILL WON'T SHUT OFF, IT MUST BE POSSESSED!!!!" until they remember about the battery, then flip it over, accidentally eject the DVD drive instead of the battery, then accidentally drop it, at which point it shuts off...for good.

But that's just my guess.


ok, I'm now in favor of a kill switch. I like the idea of making it in the form of a plug.
 
2010-02-24 01:35:55 PM  
I hope this woman had a "God is my co-pilot" bumper sticker.
 
2010-02-24 01:35:57 PM  
nyuhsuk: Barakku: nyuhsuk:
Bullshiat! 6 miles at 100 mph? Thats 600 miles! That's TORTURE!

What kind of retard math are you doing?

6 Miles times 100 mph is obviously 600 miles miles per hour. You *combine* the labels, stupid.

If you combine the labels, it's miles squared as you said retard.


That would be 600 mi/hr2, and that's as many as twelve hundreds, and that's horrible.

Keep this up, and you'll have this broad doing the kessel run in 12 parsecs.
 
2010-02-24 01:36:27 PM  
impalerMaybe rehearsed wasn't the appropriate word. 'Coached' probably would have been better or perhaps 'researched'.

'My wife just called me saying she was going to die on the interstate; so I drive over, rush to her....and go check out the car and inspect the floor mats to rule them out as a possible cause of the issue'.

First - that makes no sense. Since the car stopped accelerating, if the floor mat was holding it down, it was obviously moved during the duration of the trip. Second - it seems awfully convenient to be able to say 'Oh yeah - back in 2006 - my husband totally had the foresight to check out the floor mats'.

Beyond that, the language she uses seems unlikely to be her own. It's one thing to think about what happened, and get the details sorted out in your own head. But she called her husband on the 'bluetooth phone system'. That doesn't sound like words I'd expect her to ever use.

"At 35 mphs it wouldn't shut off...but at 32 it would".

That's some pretty detailed recollection for a lady who thinks her life is ending. I've had a few 'OH SH*#' moments in the car and my memory goes something like this....

'I was driving down the road and all of a sudden there was a deer in the middle of the road. I hit the brakes, but I knew I was going to hit it. I pulled off to the side of the road and called a tow truck'.

I could review that in my head as many times as I like, that's the level of detail that I recall.

This lady is like, 'I firmly applied the brake with both feet while reaching for the emergency brake with my right hand. I shifted through to each gear, in this particular order, I ended with it in reverse while noting that my speed had now hit 100mph. At this point I decided to call my husband on the blue tooth phone system and let him know I was going to die. After the six mile marker passed on my right the car began to decelerate. I continued to try and turn off the engine....and even at 35mph I was unable to turn it off, but then, precisely, as I reached 33mphs the engine disengaged. Later, when the tow truck came and asked my husband to put it in neutral; I remember that he was 20-25 feet away. Because I'm cool like that. I remember everything'.

It's like some old lady with Navy Seal training or something.
 
2010-02-24 01:36:36 PM  
mongbiohazard: My BS detector is lighting up...

Yeah, just wait until Toyota's lawyers cross examine her...oh, wait...this is just a congressional dog and pony show with no judicial oversight.

This will teach Toyota to overtake GM as the worlds biggest car company just as the US government pays billions to keep GM solvent.

I was on the fence between a Ford Ranger and a Toyota Tacoma but now I think I will buy a Tacoma.
 
2010-02-24 01:36:39 PM  
Jeez, I wish I had a Toyota, so I could have a cool out-of-control car story.
 
2010-02-24 01:36:43 PM  
Katie98_KT: medius: Katie98_KT: heh. what do these people do for laptops?

wethose people take the battery out.

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Katie98_KT: heh. what do these people do for laptops?

Probably start screaming, "OH MY GOD!!! I UNPLUGGED IT AND IT STILL WON'T SHUT OFF, IT MUST BE POSSESSED!!!!" until they remember about the battery, then flip it over, accidentally eject the DVD drive instead of the battery, then accidentally drop it, at which point it shuts off...for good.

But that's just my guess.

ok, I'm now in favor of a kill switch. I like the idea of making it in the form of a plug.


I still think crawling on to the hood and disconnecting the battery is a viable option, but not bailing without a parachute.
 
2010-02-24 01:36:44 PM  
Ant: Voice dial on bluetooth headset. Try it.

I'd love to, but Steve Jobs has that functionality locked down on my iProduct. There is in fact not a (privacy enabled) app for that.
 
2010-02-24 01:36:44 PM  
capnmonkey: It's bullshiat that Toyota is getting raked over the coals for this.

Did the power windows still work? Roll down the window, sit on the door, tuck your shoulder and roll out of the car, problem solved. People act like just because the accelerator was at full throttle, putting it into neutral didn't work, the brakes didn't work, and turning the car off didn't work that this lady was out of options.


Um why don't you jump out of a car doing 100+ MPH and work out the results.

My guess is the city would need to send in a cleaning crew to mop up the mess.
 
2010-02-24 01:37:21 PM  
Alphakronik: How bout this. We train people to drive 100mph so that if and when their "luxury sports car" does accelerate past 45, they know how to drive it.

That, or just make sure there isn't a vagina behind the wheel.


Did she crash? TFA indicates no. If that's the case: Sexism fail + reading comprehension fail = men should be banned from the internets.

/likes his slopes slippery
 
2010-02-24 01:37:23 PM  
cmb53208: Gee, am I the only one who finds it strange these claims of sudden acceleration come after the gummint buys into GM and Chrysler? I mean Toyota has a well deserved reputation for quality (you can usually get 250,000 miles out of their vehicles no problem; not so with most GM and Chrysler products) so what better way to destroy that rep than with a safety scandal?

To put this in further perspective, how many Toyotas were known to have accelerated out of control? And how many Toyotas are on the road? And how many of the out of control Toyotas were that way becuase the driver was a dumbass and pressed the wrong pedal?


I love the Toyota fanboy warrgarbl. So many people are still willing to give the company the benefit of the doubt. It's just a car, you might want to think about moving on to something else...
 
2010-02-24 01:37:37 PM  
floor9: TwistedIvory: Especially when she talks about whipping out her cell phone while scorching pavement at 100mph in a runaway car and chatting with her husband.

That's not what happened. According to TFA, she used her handsfree Bluetooth system. For all we know she had to press one button to dial. Maybe it was even voice-response. Some systems respond well to stressed, screaming voices, others do not.


I know my system does.

/kinky
 
2010-02-24 01:37:38 PM  
Nonono, that only makes them angrier.
 
2010-02-24 01:37:58 PM  
mongbiohazard: mrshowrules: You are misrepersenting my point. All I said it "makes you wonder" why Toyota isn't coming out with a statement regarding this testimony. Your point about why they would do this is certainly possible.


It doesn't make me wonder at all. Common sense would tell you that they'll be eviscerated by politicians and the press, and make themselves look like bad guys, if they immediately jump all over this lady's story. She was there to tug the heartstrings and get some emotional sympathy worked up...


Nice little theory. I bet you are right. What prompted it, were you also wondering why they didn't release a statement on the heels of the testimony?

/lighten up Francis
 
2010-02-24 01:38:22 PM  
Eddie Adams from Torrance: HansensDisease: After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

I wasn't aware that God controlled the reset pin on embedded processors!

Does that feature come with the car?

God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.


Not to mention keeping her in the left lane with the turn signal on. I'm trying to pass here!
 
2010-02-24 01:38:29 PM  
factoryconnection: /likes his slopes slippery

I hear foreplay helps.
 
2010-02-24 01:39:06 PM  
nyuhsuk: I have owned the same exact model Lexus ES350 and I believe the parking brake is fully mechanical as you can feel the spring pressure as you lock/unlock the sucker. I have no idea but can the parking brake effectively slow a car to a stop IF this throttle was in fact going out of control?

The parking brake does almost nothing in this case. The parking brake only engages the rear brakes using a mechanical rather than hydraulic system, and with much less force than the standard hydraulic brakes. Even in the best case, the rear brakes only apply about 20% of the braking force of the front brakes.

The parking brake can be used in an emergency due to a leak in the hydraulic brakes (while coming downhill to a red light *grumble grumble*), but would provide very little braking force at speed and could make the car uncontrolable if you manage to apply enough force to lock up the rear wheels.
 
2010-02-24 01:39:42 PM  
bhcompy: mongbiohazard: I'm skeptical... Something's not adding up with this woman's account. She's hurtling down the road at 100+ mph in a panic and she has the wherewithal to systematically try every single thing someone would suggest she try? And also calling her husband? And every system in the car simultaneously fails catastrophically? This happened well over a year ago, but she can remember every single detail and order of events with such clear and unambiguous detail? This happened so long ago and yet she chokes up at just the right time for dramatic effect?

My BS detector is lighting up...

I'm not saying she's not lying, but have you ever been in a harrowing experience? I remember vividly every detail of my first car accident(a head on collision) that happened 11 years ago, and after talking to others about it, it seems that my experience/memory is not uncommon(including the whole world seemingly moving in slow motion)


Humans are hardwired to remember in exacting detail events that happen when their adrenalin kicks into overdrive. It is a survival mechanism and the reason that Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is such a biatch.

You might not remember clearly every day events, but the minutes and seconds that you think you are going to die will be etched into you memory forever.
 
2010-02-24 01:40:10 PM  
capnmonkey: I kinda figured that suggesting a 60 year old woman should hurl herself out a car window at 100mph would be quickly understood as sarcasm...though I guess it might be the evolution of the "put it in neutral and hit the brakes" defenders.

You overestimate your peers. TUCK AND ROLL!

GoodOmens: Um why don't you jump out of a car doing 100+ MPH and work out the results.

He said TUCK and ROLL... get to it!
 
2010-02-24 01:40:23 PM  
nyuhsuk: StreetlightInTheGhetto: nyuhsuk: It all depends on your dealer's initial orientation of the car. They should probably tell you (mine did and they probably all do now) but since it is a departure from the standard key system, I think you should take the personal responsibility to read on it before you drive (i.e. how to access and start a car if the FOB battery dies - which has happened to me while out and about). And who wants to leave a ugly looking sticker on your dash?

I'm not used to this "not having a key to use when the FOB battery dies" crap.

But what I'm saying is that having a sticker for cars with frequently changing drivers (work fleets, rentals, etc.) would not really be such a bad thing.

Very true. It really is a totally new set of instructions. What I meant by the FOB battery dying thing is how to start the car with the valet key when the wireless FOB can't be detected.


The whole business with starting a car after the fob battery dies is the biggest pain in the ass imaginable.
 
2010-02-24 01:40:24 PM  
Zukipilot:

So she can drive through fairly heavy traffic (always is in that area) at 100 MPH, while digging through her purse to get her phone and call her hubby, and watch the clock to know the ordeal lasted 6 minutes????


It's a late late model Lexus. Her phone call to her husband would consist of pushing a button with her right thumb and saying "money bags"

www.lexus.com
 
2010-02-24 01:40:31 PM  
Blowmonkey: FTfA: "After six miles later, God intervened,"

Yeah up until that point he was just farking with you!


"The engine was revving up like crazy! It sounded like TiiIITHE!! TiiIITHHE!!"
 
2010-02-24 01:40:57 PM  
floor9: manimal2878: %100 bullshiat.

I don't know about that, man. There are too many complaints to be ignored.

I'm not a mechanic, so the inner workings of these systems is beyond my skill level. But if the throttle is indeed a "throttle by wire" system, and if the transmission is also electronic, then it's not hard to imagine a software failure.

Software-based safety systems that lack active physical backups (I'm not sure of the exact terminology, but the kind of physical safety mechanism where the computer has to constantly work to bypass said safety, and if the computer fails for any reason, the safety is suddenly "unsuppressed" and kicks in) are notoriously unreliable.

The Therac-25 comes to mind.


"Dead-Man Switch"?

That would be quite the marketing challenge.
 
2010-02-24 01:41:38 PM  
H31N0US: I was on the fence between a Ford Ranger and a Toyota Tacoma but now I think I will buy a Tacoma.

The Tacoma is the far superior truck.

(Yes, I own one: 2003. Only things I've ever replaced on it are tires and fluids. Well, them and the catalytic converter some tweaker sawed off for the $40 worth of platinum in it. Great truck, and with the 4x4 package it was exceedingly capable in our recent 64" of snow. Can't recommend it highly enough. Just be sure to park it where you can see it.)
 
2010-02-24 01:41:53 PM  
dk47:
I love the Toyota fanboy warrgarbl. So many people are still willing to give the company the benefit of the doubt. It's just a car, you might want to think about moving on to something else...


This situation is like Sony investigating Microsoft for the red ring of death, if the red ring of death also caused the Xbox to explode when consumers responded inappropriately.
 
2010-02-24 01:42:02 PM  
Japanese cars are great! I will never buy an American car again, the quality is terrible. I hate America! Buy Japanese!

Farking dumbasses get what they deserve. Traitors. Die in a fiery crash.
 
2010-02-24 01:42:26 PM  
Hang up and drive, biatch.
 
2010-02-24 01:42:35 PM  
CrowdSceneExtra: nyuhsuk: I have owned the same exact model Lexus ES350 and I believe the parking brake is fully mechanical as you can feel the spring pressure as you lock/unlock the sucker. I have no idea but can the parking brake effectively slow a car to a stop IF this throttle was in fact going out of control?

The parking brake does almost nothing in this case. The parking brake only engages the rear brakes using a mechanical rather than hydraulic system, and with much less force than the standard hydraulic brakes. Even in the best case, the rear brakes only apply about 20% of the braking force of the front brakes.

The parking brake can be used in an emergency due to a leak in the hydraulic brakes (while coming downhill to a red light *grumble grumble*), but would provide very little braking force at speed and could make the car uncontrolable if you manage to apply enough force to lock up the rear wheels.


Ah... I always assumed it was applied on the front wheels like the standard brakes. That description of the rear wheels locking sounds heavily reminiscent of e-braking with a Corvette in the GT games... never a pretty result...
 
2010-02-24 01:43:43 PM  
Thunderpipes: Japanese cars are great! I will never buy an American car again, the quality is terrible. I hate America! Buy Japanese!

Farking dumbasses get what they deserve. Traitors. Die in a fiery crash.


I think you're my favorite troll.
 
2010-02-24 01:43:56 PM  
This is a semi serious question that I've been wondering about:
In the hypothetical situation in which you are driving 100mph with no way to stop, would you be better off hitting something head on, or cutting the wheel to one side several spins and rolling the car?

I think I'd rather roll a car at 100mph then hit something head on, but I got a C in physics.
 
2010-02-24 01:44:23 PM  
On whether braking alone may fail to stop affected vehicles, a driver account in the Los Angeles Times claimed that the attempt to stop a 2005 Camry was unsuccessful with both the brake and emergency brake.[49] However, tests of the Camry by Car and Driver in 2009, attempting to use the brakes to stop acceleration of a purposely-stuck throttle at 70, 100, and 120 mph, found that the test driver was able to reduce speed to 10 mph in all instances, and in the 70 and 100 mph tests, stop the car completely.[50][51] The Camry's braking distances with a purposely-stuck accelerator were also shorter than that of the Ford Taurus' regular stopping distance.[50] Car and Driver concluded that, based on their emergency stopping tests, the Camry's brakes could overcome the accelerator in all cases even without a brake override, and that stopping distances with a wide-open throttle were largely indiscernible from regular braking.
 
2010-02-24 01:44:32 PM  
I had a Civic (standard) that did this to me, but I was able to stop it by riding the breaks and putting it in Neutral. Happened on the interstate thankfully. Still scary as hell. Turned out to be a floor mat problem :P Or, rather, my feet shoving the floormat into the wrong place problem...
 
2010-02-24 01:45:26 PM  
Regnad Kcin: "The engine was revving up like crazy! It sounded like TiiIITHE!! TiiIITHHE!!"

I'm glad I stuck around for this one.
 
2010-02-24 01:45:27 PM  
Thunderpipes: Japanese cars are great! I will never buy an American car again, the quality is terrible. I hate America! Buy Japanese!

Farking dumbasses get what they deserve. Traitors. Die in a fiery crash.


Dude, don't sit too close too your tv, it may not be made in the states.
 
2010-02-24 01:45:28 PM  
bhcompy: nyuhsuk: StreetlightInTheGhetto: nyuhsuk: It all depends on your dealer's initial orientation of the car. They should probably tell you (mine did and they probably all do now) but since it is a departure from the standard key system, I think you should take the personal responsibility to read on it before you drive (i.e. how to access and start a car if the FOB battery dies - which has happened to me while out and about). And who wants to leave a ugly looking sticker on your dash?

I'm not used to this "not having a key to use when the FOB battery dies" crap.

But what I'm saying is that having a sticker for cars with frequently changing drivers (work fleets, rentals, etc.) would not really be such a bad thing.

Very true. It really is a totally new set of instructions. What I meant by the FOB battery dying thing is how to start the car with the valet key when the wireless FOB can't be detected.

The whole business with starting a car after the fob battery dies is the biggest pain in the ass imaginable.


But damn it's convenient when that battery is good to go. I would never take my keys out of my pocket if it weren't for the fact I need to use a key to get in and out of my house...

I always end up giving an erotic fingering to the dashboard of a old school style key-ed car nowadays fumbling for the Start button...
 
2010-02-24 01:45:47 PM  
PRIUS'S DON'T HAVE "NEUTRAL." The "Drive", "Reverse", and the "Charge Battery While Coasting" options are it. There is a separate button for "Park."

/drives a Prius
//just to test it, I tried to "Power Down" the car while under acceleration. Button did nothing.
///actually hoping the thing takes off on me, I'll crash it and sue the shiat of some Toyota
//have not gotten a single recall on it, aside from the floor mats, which I knew as soon as I got the car were farked and got different ones
/I SAID I WILL SUE ME THE shiat OUT OF SOME TOYOTA
 
2010-02-24 01:45:47 PM  
imcdb.org

Flubber, problem solved.
 
2010-02-24 01:46:17 PM  
factoryconnection: capnmonkey: I kinda figured that suggesting a 60 year old woman should hurl herself out a car window at 100mph would be quickly understood as sarcasm...though I guess it might be the evolution of the "put it in neutral and hit the brakes" defenders.

You overestimate your peers. TUCK AND ROLL!

GoodOmens: Um why don't you jump out of a car doing 100+ MPH and work out the results.

He said TUCK and ROLL... get to it!


www.thatsfamous.com
forgot to tuck and roll.

/ticket please
 
2010-02-24 01:46:38 PM  
Ok a few things that crossed my mind:
I kind of believe that most women can't drive. This is kind of horrible for me to say, since I am female and hate that stereotype. A majority of bad drivers I see or women yakking away on the phone in their SUV/Mini Vans. (No idea how badly I wish I could reach in and throw their phone into the on coming traffic lane.) I do believe that some people think that nothing will happen to them in their luxury cars. I am willing to bet that she didn't acknowledge that her car was an over glorified Toyota until this all came about. From what I've read everything is mainly electrical/computer controlled, but, I do have a hard time believing that the E-brake wouldn't work at all and that everything else would fail horribly by not responding. Sorry about the some what of a rant.

I drive a 1997 Toyota Corolla just about to hit the 170,000 mile mark. Would have absolutely no problem walking into Toyota to buy a car right now.
 
2010-02-24 01:46:42 PM  
I wonder what the mechanic that she took her car to after the incident diagnosed to be the problem.

She did take the car to a mechanic, right?? Because the mechanic would be up there testifying about her death machine.

Unless, of course, she was lying. Of course.
 
2010-02-24 01:46:53 PM  
Smidge204: Google tells me this is the interior of a 2007 Lexus ES3500. Here's a closeup of the gearshift:

So if putting it into Neutral didn't work, it's probably because there is a horrifically retarded computer sitting between the gearshift and the actuators in the transmission.

If they had certifications on drive-by-wire systems even a TENTH of the robustness of fly-by-wire systems on commercial airlines, I'd be happy.
=Smidge=


OR - what is more likely is that she accidentally popped into the manu-matic gate and was upshifting when she thought she was going into neutral, then shifting into neutral when she thought it was reverse... which would explain why it eventually stopped "while in reverse." I would probably be gripping the selector hard enough not to notice it trying to spring back into the regular drive gate if I was under the impression that the car was possessed and taking off without me.

/My 2-cents.
 
2010-02-24 01:46:55 PM  
Shocktopus: "Dead-Man Switch"?

That would be quite the marketing challenge.


"Operator presence control"
 
2010-02-24 01:47:47 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

Model year and calendar year are different. If it was a 2007 model it could easily have occurred in the 2006 calendar year.
 
2010-02-24 01:48:05 PM  
Deucednuisance: H31N0US: I was on the fence between a Ford Ranger and a Toyota Tacoma but now I think I will buy a Tacoma.

The Tacoma is the far superior truck.

(Yes, I own one: 2003. Only things I've ever replaced on it are tires and fluids. Well, them and the catalytic converter some tweaker sawed off for the $40 worth of platinum in it. Great truck, and with the 4x4 package it was exceedingly capable in our recent 64" of snow. Can't recommend it highly enough. Just be sure to park it where you can see it.)


friend of mine bought a new 4x4 Tundra last year... and has had one of the two converters sawed off 3 times now... for a total cost to his insurance of $7K! (lives on the north side of Indy)
 
2010-02-24 01:48:15 PM  
floor9: doglover: I always knew automatics were retarded, and this proves it. If it happened to me I'd try and hit the center wall maybe.

What amuses me is the people who insist -- INSIST -- that the transmission selector is a direct, mechanical link to the transmission itself. I am no mechanic, but I am willing to bet that in most cars today -- especially relatively high-end cars like Lexus -- this is no longer the case. Everything is electronic; the selector is just an input device.


Did they try to reboot?
 
2010-02-24 01:48:23 PM  
Eddie Adams from Torrance:
God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

6mi at 100mph is really only about 4 minutes
 
2010-02-24 01:48:24 PM  
davidw001: Thunderpipes: Japanese cars are great! I will never buy an American car again, the quality is terrible. I hate America! Buy Japanese!

Farking dumbasses get what they deserve. Traitors. Die in a fiery crash.

Dude, don't sit too close too your tv, it may not be made in the states.


I buy American when I can. Thing that makes me laugh is the people who just won't shut their wussy little mouths about how awesome Japanese cars and how bad American cars are, when the data does not support this at all. Now one of the biggest recalls ever, and people will still make excuses for those Zero flying asshats bombing our battleships. Screw them.

Just feels good knowing that millions of liberal weirdos are sad inside because their overlords have failed.
 
2010-02-24 01:48:27 PM  
StreetlightInTheGhetto: Really. I'm sure the truck that started crossing into my lane last week without his blinker on (and no shoulder to speak of on my side) had an automatic, right? Considering I could see his face in the mirrors, I'm pretty damn sure I wasn't in a blind spot either.

/blanket statements are effing retarded
//so are you if you can't eat and drive manual at the same time
///have friends who can multitask while driving stick as good as any suburban mom in an SUV. Which means their driving often suffers for it.


You must drive an automatic and clearly he was just trying to kill you to make the world a better place.

/Why were you in the truck's way anyways you jerk?
 
2010-02-24 01:48:29 PM  
redwards29a: Car and Driver concluded that, based on their emergency stopping tests, the Camry's brakes could overcome the accelerator in all cases even without a brake override, and that stopping distances with a wide-open throttle were largely indiscernible from regular braking.

I read that article, too, but I think the Camry had a 4-cyl and regardless is front wheel drive. It takes a lot more braking force to overcome the torque of a 3.5L V-6 than a 2.4L I-4. The E-brake does a lot better against non-driven wheels.

The Roush Mustang that they tested had some scary data... 700 feet to stop the car!
 
dam
2010-02-24 01:48:58 PM  
Where I live, Lexus drivers are the douchiest of them all. What is it about those ugly, glorified Toyotas that make people think they are the shiat?
 
2010-02-24 01:49:04 PM  
bhcompy: The whole business with starting a car after the fob battery dies is the biggest pain in the ass imaginable.

Why not just use the key that's inside the fob?

Does any manufacturer make a keyless fob without an emergency key integrated into it? Toyota and Lexus sure don't.

Because that would be dumb.
 
2010-02-24 01:49:36 PM  
Regnad Kcin: "The engine was revving up like crazy! It sounded like TiiIITHE!! TiiIITHHE!!"

No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney.

/saaaayyyy yourr prayerrrrss
 
2010-02-24 01:49:43 PM  
floor9: It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

So yeah, apparently that won't help.


It doesn't sound like the current recall will fix the problem.
 
2010-02-24 01:49:55 PM  
Premature Defenestration: manimal2878: Jimmy Devil Rocket Science: bongmiester: driving 100mph in an out of control vehicle she searches for her cell phone and calls her husband. i'm surprised none of the congressmen jumped on this.

manimal2878: Not so much that it could be possible, but that she had time to call her husband, and the car wanted to start itself again and only by the grace of god did it stop six miles after her prayers.

You know how I know you two didn't read the article?

You know how I know your reading comprehension sucks?

Fearing death, she called husband. "I knew he could not help me, but I wanted to hear his voice one more time," she recalled. "After six miles later, God intervened," and the car began to slow on it own, though the engine continued to rev itself in cycles. When the vehicle had finally slowed to around 35 mph, she was able to stop the engine.

You know how I know your reading comprehension sucks?

FTFA: I called my husband on the blue tooth phone system.


Wow you are farking stupid.
 
2010-02-24 01:50:00 PM  
manimal2878: Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

If your car is ramping up in speed, wouldn't you need both hands on the wheel to steer around things and avoid obstacles? I find it incredibly unlikely she could have made a phone call and paid attention to the road enough to avoid wrecking.


It was a Bluetooth connection through the car. Totally handsfree, and probably even voice driven. Lots of high end cars have them. It's as simple as click button on wheel, say "Call Home".

And if it has a keyless entry like BMW, there is no key to "turn off the ignition". There is just a button. Connected to software.

Not every car is like the 98 Civic you kibbitzers drive. Some of them are almost completely drive-by-wire. IIRC, BMW put in mechanical interlocks to prevent just this kinda thing.
 
2010-02-24 01:50:02 PM  
featurecreep: what is more likely is that she accidentally popped into the manu-matic gate and was upshifting when she thought she was going into neutral, then shifting into neutral when she thought it was reverse...

This. It's just a variant on getting drive rather than reverse and pressing the accelerator harder when you don't go backwards, an accident so common that car parks have to be designed to mitigate the effects.
 
2010-02-24 01:50:07 PM  
capnmonkey: This is a semi serious question that I've been wondering about:
In the hypothetical situation in which you are driving 100mph with no way to stop, would you be better off hitting something head on, or cutting the wheel to one side several spins and rolling the car?

I think I'd rather roll a car at 100mph then hit something head on, but I got a C in physics.


I'd roll, but before that I'd try to drive off onto the grass. If the freeway has a concrete divider, I might try and rub the car along that so the friction could slow it down.

Also, if you rear-end the 70mph car in front of you, that's only a 30mph collision instead on a 100mph.

There are always options. Never give up! Never surrender!
 
2010-02-24 01:50:39 PM  
bongmiester: Fearing death, she called husband.

driving 100mph in an out of control vehicle she searches for her cell phone and calls her husband. i'm surprised none of the congressmen jumped on this.


Yea, she was definitely going over the speed limit.
 
2010-02-24 01:51:24 PM  
nyuhsuk: bhcompy: nyuhsuk: StreetlightInTheGhetto: nyuhsuk: It all depends on your dealer's initial orientation of the car. They should probably tell you (mine did and they probably all do now) but since it is a departure from the standard key system, I think you should take the personal responsibility to read on it before you drive (i.e. how to access and start a car if the FOB battery dies - which has happened to me while out and about). And who wants to leave a ugly looking sticker on your dash?

I'm not used to this "not having a key to use when the FOB battery dies" crap.

But what I'm saying is that having a sticker for cars with frequently changing drivers (work fleets, rentals, etc.) would not really be such a bad thing.

Very true. It really is a totally new set of instructions. What I meant by the FOB battery dying thing is how to start the car with the valet key when the wireless FOB can't be detected.

The whole business with starting a car after the fob battery dies is the biggest pain in the ass imaginable.

But damn it's convenient when that battery is good to go. I would never take my keys out of my pocket if it weren't for the fact I need to use a key to get in and out of my house...

I always end up giving an erotic fingering to the dashboard of a old school style key-ed car nowadays fumbling for the Start button...


Well, my car isn't quite like that. I still use a key to start the car and push a button to unlock, but if the fob isn't present the car will not start and it takes like 5 minutes for the system to reset to start the car
 
2010-02-24 01:51:27 PM  
EighthundredmillionthFarker: She did take the car to a mechanic, right?? Because the mechanic would be up there testifying about her death machine.

The answer to your question is not "a" but "many." Thanks for playing "I don't research sh*t."
 
2010-02-24 01:52:12 PM  
factoryconnection: redwards29a: Car and Driver concluded that, based on their emergency stopping tests, the Camry's brakes could overcome the accelerator in all cases even without a brake override, and that stopping distances with a wide-open throttle were largely indiscernible from regular braking.

I read that article, too, but I think the Camry had a 4-cyl and regardless is front wheel drive. It takes a lot more braking force to overcome the torque of a 3.5L V-6 than a 2.4L I-4. The E-brake does a lot better against non-driven wheels.

The Roush Mustang that they tested had some scary data... 700 feet to stop the car!


Well, 450 hp at full throttle is a little different than a 4 or 6 banger. We had the facts all out in another thread, Roush brakes are almost as good as a Vette, they are fantastic. Roush produces one of the best handling and performing cars anywhere near the price range. Yes, I am biased.
 
2010-02-24 01:52:12 PM  
factoryconnection: EighthundredmillionthFarker: She did take the car to a mechanic, right?? Because the mechanic would be up there testifying about her death machine.

The answer to your question is not "a" but "many." Thanks for playing "I don't research sh*t."


Links, please.
 
2010-02-24 01:52:54 PM  
TwistedIvory: That's not really how cars work. For one, the parking/emergency brake is not electronic: It is a galvanized cable connected to the rear brakes.

I have a hard time envisioning an entirely electronic transmission selector, too.

But the ignition? Really? I suppose there might be some level of plausibility as it could be a keyless fob-start system. But in that case, why not just toss the fob out of the window? Also, don't all cars like that have a kill switch?

There's very little about this story that rings to me with the aura of truth. Especially when she talks about whipping out her cell phone while scorching pavement at 100mph in a runaway car and chatting with her husband. Because, really, if that were the case? She probably did deserve to wreck the car into an immovable object off the road, as she's obviously demonstrating reckless disregard for other people anyway.


My car runs just fine without the key fob, once started. It just biatches about it with a noise and yellow icon. And the phone call was handsfree Bluetooth and likely voice activated.
 
2010-02-24 01:53:12 PM  
erewhon: I dunno, at first I thought this was crap but maybe it could be true. And if so, I want to know how to cause this intentionally. Mwa ha ha ha.

So what you are trying to establish here is that you do not have the knowledge of how to intentionally cause this failure? I suppose further more you did not know this woman nor have an argument with her last week.
 
2010-02-24 01:53:57 PM  
This happened to me in a Highlander, and I can assure you all it is very real.

Engine revved and the RPMs were red lining at 3:00. Only lasted a few seconds, luckily. Heavy brakes kept it under control.

Also, with the same car I had it in reverse and hitting the gas would make it go forward. Had to get 4 people to push the car off the wall I was lurched into while in neutral (was on a decline). Traded the car in shortly thereafter.

It's easy to deny that is isn't the cars fault until it's you in the drivers seat.
 
2010-02-24 01:55:00 PM  
Sofa King Smart: friend of mine bought a new 4x4 Tundra last year... and has had one of the two converters sawed off 3 times now...

He might want to consider getting couple of these

www.catclamp.com

I know I am.
 
2010-02-24 01:55:28 PM  
Deucednuisance: bhcompy: The whole business with starting a car after the fob battery dies is the biggest pain in the ass imaginable.

Why not just use the key that's inside the fob?

Does any manufacturer make a keyless fob without an emergency key integrated into it? Toyota and Lexus sure don't.

Because that would be dumb.


I have a Saturn. The car uses a key, but the fob has to be present. If the fob isn't present or the battery is dead the car will not start despite having a key. There is an override but it takes a long time override after the alarm cycles off.
 
2010-02-24 01:55:55 PM  
Is the lexus shifter connected to a cable or is it set up with a sensor on the shifter and a motor on the transmission?

I'm guessing it was electronic since she couldnt shift. In some things electronic devices are great. For critical applications like throttle control or the stick that controls the transmission I think that a good old manual mechanical link should be there. An electronic throttle is not going to save any gas or money over one with a linkage. All it does is add to the cost of the car and stops the person behind the wheel from being able to stop should the electronics have a hiccup.

Its also nice to be able to feel any wierd vibrations in the gas pedal when its connected by a nice solid cable. Its wonderful to be able to shift into neutral if the throttle sticks.

I have had my throttle stick. I shut off the motor and shifted to neutral. I got out of the car pulled out the wd-40, opened the hood and sprayed the throttle cable. Went to the parts store and got a new cable for 20$ just to be on the safe side since the car was over 20 years old.
 
2010-02-24 01:56:10 PM  
Slaves2Darkness: bhcompy:

Humans are hardwired to remember in exacting detail events that happen when their adrenalin kicks into overdrive. It is a survival mechanism and the reason that Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is such a biatch.

You might not remember clearly every day events, but the minutes and seconds that you think you are going to die will be etched into you memory forever.


I've worked with combat vets who could relate every detail they had experienced of certain engagements they'd fought in. And they cannot for the life of them ever forget those details no matter how much dope they smoke or alcohol they drink. And there are no languages anywhere that can describe the emotions involved.

Grandpa shot down a P-47 Thunderbolt at Saipan in 1944. He would still start crying when he talked about it 40 years later. That he didn't see what kind of aircraft it was until it flipped over and he saw the markings. And he could describe in minute detail of how he raked the side of the plane with 20mm cannon fire as it flew over the ship he was on during the battle.

Memory is a weird thing.
 
2010-02-24 01:56:25 PM  
I will post it again.
CELLPHONES CAUSED THIS!
 
2010-02-24 01:56:38 PM  
Bobucles: The brake pedal will beat a fully revving engine at 100mph any day.

Yes. The brakes will get the car to around 70MPH, at which point they cook off and the car begins to accelerate again.


I'll just leave this here for you...

www.caranddriver.com
 
2010-02-24 01:56:45 PM  
StreetlightInTheGhetto: IQ7ZuuIU: No mechanical control of the ignition switch.
No mechanical control of the accelerator.
No mechanical control of the transmission.

I don't care what brand of automobile this is. It looks like a recipe for trouble.

Crap like this at least reminds me that I need to finish learning how to drive manual already. I can drive through a parking lot okay but I need a hell of a lot more practice before I feel comfortable driving on the roads/hills.

In retrospect, it would've been nice if they even offered that as an option during drivers ed. I would've paid a bit extra for that, too.


You haven't lived until you've driven around SF with a manual transmission.
 
2010-02-24 01:56:58 PM  
FTFA: After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

Why did god send her on that hell ride in the first place?
 
2010-02-24 01:57:14 PM  
factoryconnection: EighthundredmillionthFarker: She did take the car to a mechanic, right?? Because the mechanic would be up there testifying about her death machine.

The answer to your question is not "a" but "many." Thanks for playing "I don't research sh*t."


Still waiting for links to the testimonial of the mechanic or mechanics that looked at Rhonda Smith's Lexus, and diagnosed the problem.

I'm sure we'll never see a response from you.

/good luck!
 
2010-02-24 01:57:23 PM  
I drive an 07 Yaris so I'm patiently waiting for my car to turn into Optimus Prime and just run off the road leaving me behind.

Essentially, I'm getting a kick.

/I'm not worried
 
2010-02-24 01:58:26 PM  
myimagine18: A majority of bad drivers I see or women yakking away on the phone in their SUV/Mini Vans. (No idea how badly I wish I could reach in and throw their phone into the on coming traffic lane stick their gas pedal under their floormat.)

ftfy
 
2010-02-24 01:58:56 PM  
D-Liver: This happened to me in a Highlander, and I can assure you all it is very real.

Engine revved and the RPMs were red lining at 3:00. Only lasted a few seconds, luckily. Heavy brakes kept it under control.

Also, with the same car I had it in reverse and hitting the gas would make it go forward. Had to get 4 people to push the car off the wall I was lurched into while in neutral (was on a decline). Traded the car in shortly thereafter.

It's easy to deny that is isn't the cars fault until it's you in the drivers seat.


If the pictures Smidge204 posted down-thread are accurate, there are HUGE human factors issues in that moel/year lexus that could easily have contributed to Mrs. Smith's experience. That alone would make me less likely to buy one.

Then again, my cars all have a manual transmission.
 
2010-02-24 01:59:06 PM  
trappedspirit: I suppose further more you did not know this woman nor have an argument with her last week.

No, but I do know some other people that could use a nice e-ticket freeway ride. Especially if you can do it from outside, with some bluetooth hack like carwhisperer.

"Ok, there he is - pull up along side, hang on, I'm starting the software...got it. Here we go...(presses key)...AH hahahahaha!"

(IRS guy flailing wildly in nearby Lexus as he goes down the beach road at 100mph)
 
2010-02-24 01:59:11 PM  
cefm: Anyone who's ever had a laptop computer go crazy on them knows that electronic or virtual on/off switches are a stupid idea, because it relies on the system to work properly in order to function - when the problem you're trying to address is precisely that the system is NOT functioning properly. That's why I always thought laptops should have had a hard-wired "off" switch or battery-eject. Same for these ridiculous e-cars. Sure a "start" button looks cool, but what happens when the software or the wire goes kooky?

A kill switch seems like a good idea.
 
2010-02-24 01:59:18 PM  
Thunderpipes: factoryconnection: redwards29a: Car and Driver concluded that, based on their emergency stopping tests, the Camry's brakes could overcome the accelerator in all cases even without a brake override, and that stopping distances with a wide-open throttle were largely indiscernible from regular braking.

I read that article, too, but I think the Camry had a 4-cyl and regardless is front wheel drive. It takes a lot more braking force to overcome the torque of a 3.5L V-6 than a 2.4L I-4. The E-brake does a lot better against non-driven wheels.

The Roush Mustang that they tested had some scary data... 700 feet to stop the car!

Well, 450 hp at full throttle is a little different than a 4 or 6 banger. We had the facts all out in another thread, Roush brakes are almost as good as a Vette, they are fantastic. Roush produces one of the best handling and performing cars anywhere near the price range. Yes, I am biased.


Biased and wrong.
Link

A lotus for a whole lot less.
 
2010-02-24 02:00:42 PM  
Where does it say she turned off the ignition?
 
2010-02-24 02:00:51 PM  
fluffy2097: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Really. I'm sure the truck that started crossing into my lane last week without his blinker on (and no shoulder to speak of on my side) had an automatic, right? Considering I could see his face in the mirrors, I'm pretty damn sure I wasn't in a blind spot either.

/blanket statements are effing retarded
//so are you if you can't eat and drive manual at the same time
///have friends who can multitask while driving stick as good as any suburban mom in an SUV. Which means their driving often suffers for it.

You must drive an automatic and clearly he was just trying to kill you to make the world a better place.

/Why were you in the truck's way anyways you jerk?


I was driving in the goddamn left lane getting ready to pass him, but waiting five seconds until a proper shoulder developed. F--king glad I did, too. He pulled two lanes over to the right after I hit the horn, so he might have just started drifting into my lane. Didn't matter. If I had started passing ten seconds earlier I'd be flattened anyhow.\

It was said that manual drivers are TEH BEST EVER and automatic drivers suck. I was just pointing out that by far the crappiest co-driver I've had the pleasure of sharing a road with in the past month or so certainly didn't drive manual. Anecdote but whatever.

And I'm learning to drive stick. But I own a automatic. It was cheap, available, and it's reliable. Whoop-de-do.
 
2010-02-24 02:00:58 PM  
alywa: A parking brake button.

That's not a parking brake button. That's how you shift the transmission into park. The parking brake is that purely mechanical pedal located off to the left, just like in many other cars and trucks.
 
2010-02-24 02:01:23 PM  
If you want to drive 110+ mph with no traffic and airplane-passenger-like visibility, come to Nevada. Especially south of Gerlach along the Black Rock Desert. Had a blast this past weekend.

/87 Integra with 262k miles on the original engine
//threw a rod the next day
///now I'm stuck in Boulder City at a rundown hotel surrounded by unemployment-check alcoholics
////cool story, etc
 
2010-02-24 02:01:29 PM  
impaler: If any of this is remotely true, that TWO components of the car could simultaneously fail, the car manufacturer known as Toyota should cease to exist.

It doesn't have to involve two failures. If both are software driven, whatever process handles them might be stuck in a loop and failing to do status checks.
 
2010-02-24 02:02:56 PM  
Thunderpipes: davidw001: Thunderpipes: Japanese cars are great! I will never buy an American car again, the quality is terrible. I hate America! Buy Japanese!

Farking dumbasses get what they deserve. Traitors. Die in a fiery crash.

Dude, don't sit too close too your tv, it may not be made in the states.

I buy American when I can. Thing that makes me laugh is the people who just won't shut their wussy little mouths about how awesome Japanese cars and how bad American cars are, when the data does not support this at all. Now one of the biggest recalls ever, and people will still make excuses for those Zero flying asshats bombing our battleships. Screw them.

Just feels good knowing that millions of liberal weirdos are sad inside because their overlords have failed.


I don't care about all the political crap, and I'm personally over Pearl Harbor, but I do think it's sad when people push "American" products that are made in other countries. I worked for a Japanese company for several years that produced parts for american cars. Now I work for an American company (owned by Italians) that produces parts for different companies all over the world.
i843.photobucket.com
Just not that simple anymore.
 
2010-02-24 02:03:58 PM  
SpectroBoy: One retard claiming she had both feet on the brakes and still couldn't stop the car does NOT make it true. Unless the Toyota has brake by wire, the brake pedal should win.

Haven't been following this very closely, have you?
 
2010-02-24 02:04:04 PM  
stebain: impaler: If any of this is remotely true, that TWO components of the car could simultaneously fail, the car manufacturer known as Toyota should cease to exist.

It doesn't have to involve two failures. If both are software driven, whatever process handles them might be stuck in a loop and failing to do status checks.


I'm not an auto engineer, but I believe each of those systems have their own ECU's - in which case they wouldn't share computing resources.
 
2010-02-24 02:04:26 PM  
Oh damn, farkin foreign links, lol!
 
2010-02-24 02:05:54 PM  
bhcompy: Deucednuisance: bhcompy: The whole business with starting a car after the fob battery dies is the biggest pain in the ass imaginable.

Why not just use the key that's inside the fob?

Does any manufacturer make a keyless fob without an emergency key integrated into it? Toyota and Lexus sure don't.

Because that would be dumb.

I have a Saturn. The car uses a key, but the fob has to be present. If the fob isn't present or the battery is dead the car will not start despite having a key. There is an override but it takes a long time override after the alarm cycles off.


Looked up the instructions in the manual to start without the fob/dead fob:

1) Open door with key, alarm will sound for 2 minutes
2) After alarm stops, put key in ignition and turn to RUN
3) Turn key back to LOCK and remove key from ignition
4) The car will be able to start without the fob after 15 minutes

Completely ridiculous
 
2010-02-24 02:06:03 PM  
lokidecat: "I called my husband on the blue tooth phone system. "

No one talks like that. She was coached to say that, period. Sorry folks, but that's one of those points that a lawyer is hired to not gloss over. Had she just said she called her husband, an argument can be made for phone use being irresponsible and yadda yadda.

That was intentional and probably unlikely.


What language should she have used? What was it marketed/labeled as in the car? Additionally, saying "blue tooth" makes it relevant and clear that she wasn't taking her hands off the wheel, preventing a possible congressional thread drift.
 
2010-02-24 02:06:06 PM  
alywa: Some of the stories I've read had to do with rental / loaner cars, so I'd have to imagine this confusion has played in somewhat.

Tip #1 of a rental car driving:

if the controls are unfamiliar, pull over and RTFM before you get someone killed.
 
2010-02-24 02:07:01 PM  
TwistedIvory: That's not really how cars work. For one, the parking/emergency brake is not electronic: It is a galvanized cable connected to the rear brakes.

I have a hard time envisioning an entirely electronic transmission selector, too.

But the ignition? Really? I suppose there might be some level of plausibility as it could be a keyless fob-start system. But in that case, why not just toss the fob out of the window? Also, don't all cars like that have a kill switch?

.


I have a Lexus ES 300 and I believe that when the car is not in park you can't just turn the key to the left and switch it off. The ignition locks in the "on" position until the car is in park again. I know this because there've been a few times I've parked and was not paying attention, tried to take the key out of the ignition and not been able to because I hadn't put my car in park.
 
2010-02-24 02:07:53 PM  
SpectroBoy: Unless the Toyota has brake by wire, the brake pedal should win.

And if the transmission and brakes are BOTH by wire, then the brake should get priority, unless Toyota has the worst engineers ever.
 
2010-02-24 02:08:06 PM  
cmb53208: Gee, am I the only one who finds it strange these claims of sudden acceleration come after the gummint buys into GM and Chrysler?

this claim is from 2006... when did the buy in happen?
 
2010-02-24 02:08:46 PM  
Toyota's philosophical flaw

The fix isn't a technical one. The automaker needs a new system of 'man and machine interface.'

By Kenichi Ohmae - http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/opinionla/la-oe-ohmae24-2010feb24,0,6745685. story

"But what we are seeing may be a more fundamental problem that has to do with the engine control unit as a whole. In an average Toyota, there are about 24,000 inputs and outputs, with as many as 70 computer chips processing information and sending it on to other chips to operate the engine control units. It is a very complex system.

Such complex systems are a problem these days for all auto manufacturers -- Germans and Americans as well as Japanese -- because about 60% of a modern automobile is electronics. Toyota is the canary in the coal mine, so to speak, because it is the world's largest manufacturer of cars, with more than 50 plants around the globe outside of Japan. Toyota has more models on the road than any other carmaker.

What we see with Toyota in particular is that this new electronic complexity has overwhelmed its concept of kaizen -- continuous improvements -- that has made Toyota such a high-quality brand worldwide. This company has so perfected the practice of kaizen from the assembly line on up that it has lost the big picture of how the whole electronic engine -- and thus overall safety -- works.

If Toyota does not recognize this and tries to chalk up all of its problems to floor mats touching the accelerator or a computer glitch, it will miss the real issue. Where Toyota has failed is that rather than review the overall safety of the engine operating unit, it has focused on diagnosing the function of many thousands of pieces of an electronic engine.

What this company is missing is the human factor -- a single person who has a comprehensive understanding of the details of the engine and how the parts interact and work as a whole.

...What this suggests is that Toyota has to come up with a new organizational ethos beyond kaizen that can oversee the crucial safety features that may have been compromised by so much incremental improvement over the years. This is a philosophical problem of management, not a technical issue. A new system of "man and machine interface" needs to supplement the kaizen philosophy."
 
2010-02-24 02:09:03 PM  
stebain: this claim is from 2006... when did the buy in happen?

duh! it was retroactive

...
 
2010-02-24 02:09:05 PM  
poot_rootbeer: alywa: Some of the stories I've read had to do with rental / loaner cars, so I'd have to imagine this confusion has played in somewhat.

Tip #1 of a rental car driving:

if the controls are unfamiliar, pull over and RTFM before you get someone killed.


Tip #2 of rental car driving:

Have someone else rent the vehicle, so that when you return it with over a thousand additional miles, a chattering back end, slipping transmission, bald rear tires, and several dents in the top of the bed, you can just walk away.

/cool story
//bro
 
2010-02-24 02:10:14 PM  
aimtastic: I believe that something really bad happened to this lady's car. I believe that she believes the story she's telling. But I also believe that the combination of panic at the time, the attention she's gotten since then, and a potential payday in the future have significantly altered the story that she believes is true.

Do you have any farking idea what the consequences are when caught lying to Congress?? I seriously doubt anyone would take that risk in order to get attention, as you put it.
 
2010-02-24 02:11:43 PM  
Toyota and Lexus should fail, IF the consumer dictates they fail. But I have no doubt when they begin to fail the Govt will bail them out.

Let capitalism and consumerism decide which businesses survive.
 
2010-02-24 02:12:06 PM  
Shocktopus: manimal2878: Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

If your car is ramping up in speed, wouldn't you need both hands on the wheel to steer around things and avoid obstacles? I find it incredibly unlikely she could have made a phone call and paid attention to the road enough to avoid wrecking.

It was a Bluetooth connection through the car. Totally handsfree, and probably even voice driven. Lots of high end cars have them. It's as simple as click button on wheel, say "Call Home".

And if it has a keyless entry like BMW, there is no key to "turn off the ignition". There is just a button. Connected to software.

Not every car is like the 98 Civic you kibbitzers drive. Some of them are almost completely drive-by-wire. IIRC, BMW put in mechanical interlocks to prevent just this kinda thing.


There is more than one point that I made jack asses, stop harping on the bluetooth, I know what the fark it is.
 
2010-02-24 02:12:10 PM  
TigerStar: Toyota's philosophical flaw.

hey, thanks for that
 
2010-02-24 02:12:35 PM  
car-insurance-news.com
 
2010-02-24 02:13:18 PM  
100% Bullshiat
 
2010-02-24 02:14:38 PM  
*sigh*. Do yunz know how da Bluetoofs works?

/RTFA = knowledge!
//Sorry so late to the party, my $.02
 
2010-02-24 02:14:40 PM  
Hmmm is this the same woman?

consumerist.com

www.avolites.org.uk
 
2010-02-24 02:16:57 PM  
featurecreep: I'm not an auto engineer, but I believe each of those systems have their own ECU's - in which case they wouldn't share computing resources.

so there is no interaction between braking ECU and acceleration ECU telling acceleration to give up the ghost?
 
2010-02-24 02:19:07 PM  
EighthundredmillionthFarker: I'm sure we'll never see a response from you.

Sorry, you impatient jerk, that I'm not always on the same thread:
"After the incident, Rhonda and Eddie Smith said they ran into one roadblock after another from Toyota, their dealer and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. She said Toyota said she was at fault and the automaker successfully fought an arbitration offer to have the company buy back the car.

"We were furious that Toyota called us liars a second time," she said.
(link)
 
2010-02-24 02:19:11 PM  
For anyone who thinks that a newer model car, keyed ignition or not, will respond to the gearshift, ignition, etc...(except maybe hand brake, but @ 100mph it may not do anything but make a nice fire)here's a (cool) story.
Last summer my 2 yr old opened the driver door of my '04 model car with the garden hose on full, washing down the inside of the windshield. When I saw what he was doing I promptly freaked and got the hose from him. The running lights were strobing as were the dash lights. Disconnected the battery quickly and to get it to stop. Got the leaf blower, portable heater, and some towels. A few hours later reconnected the battery. Everything looked cool. Cranked it, put it in drive and it wanted to go by itself. Put it in park and the engine was revving and then hitching. Killed the engine, pulled the key and it was still trying to crank intermittently. Disconnected the battery, waiterd a few more hours...car was fine.

/I still think it flashes it lights in the driveway from time to time.

//but anyways...
 
2010-02-24 02:21:02 PM  
slave2grind: For anyone who thinks that a newer model car, keyed ignition or not, will respond to the gearshift, ignition, etc...(except maybe hand brake, but @ 100mph it may not do anything but make a nice fire)here's a (cool) story.
Last summer my 2 yr old opened the driver door of my '04 model car with the garden hose on full, washing down the inside of the windshield. When I saw what he was doing I promptly freaked and got the hose from him. The running lights were strobing as were the dash lights. Disconnected the battery quickly and to get it to stop. Got the leaf blower, portable heater, and some towels. A few hours later reconnected the battery. Everything looked cool. Cranked it, put it in drive and it wanted to go by itself. Put it in park and the engine was revving and then hitching. Killed the engine, pulled the key and it was still trying to crank intermittently. Disconnected the battery, waiterd a few more hours...car was fine.

/I still think it flashes it lights in the driveway from time to time.

//but anyways...


You know why kids are so cute right?
 
2010-02-24 02:21:12 PM  
Dan2ine: Hmmm is this the same woman?

Outstanding!
 
2010-02-24 02:21:48 PM  
Kuroshin: floor9: manimal2878:
I *am* a mechanic, and I'm also calling bullshiat on this one.

Every single control system would have to fail all at once in a very specific way for this to happen. The engine ECU would have to set throttle to full and the tranny ECU would have to lock itself in drive, shift gears, and refuse to accept all inputs (that's three failures in one).

Sorry, but no. Car management systems are not designed that way. Two separate computers would have to fail in very specific ways at the same time. The simplest answer is that the lady is lying about the tranny locking up because she is like the local Fark Brigade who wants everything to be Toyota's fault beyond any shadow of a doubt.

She didn't shift to Neutral, the car didn't try to re-start itself when her hubby allegedly moved the gear selector (WTF kind of bullshiat is that?!), and she didn't respond with all of that precision while playing Hercules on the brake pedal (ummmm, power assist and the ABS make that pointless - brake systems are not direct-control anymore).

She's making shiat up. End of story.


You sound like a tool.
I have a Saturn Freaking ION. Yes, pity me. But also note that there is a SINGLE master computer system that controls every electronic system in the car. I have a 5-spd manual, so that, at least, is up to me, but the system that controls the electronic steering reads the speed of the car as reported by a combination of the engine speed (in RPM), the throttle position, and the current vehicle rolling speed to determine how much "pressure" to apply to my steering action depending on the situation. If I'm in a low gear with high RPMs but a relatively low speed, the steering is tighter than it would be if I were casually driving through a sweeping low-speed curve. That system doesn't work unless there is a "master" brain that can take inputs from multiple sources and apply over-rides to various other systems.

Every system is integrated. There is a software glitch in the 2003-2005 Saturn ION that causes the reverse lights to not work if the change oil message is active on the dash display. It wasn't a "big deal" so I guess it never got addressed, but you can see a few people who discovered this on the saturn fans forums. Saturn never got back to anyone who complained. All the systems are interconnected now.

If I'm driving along and my car flips over, the doors will unlock and the windows will roll down slightly, and the hazard lights will start flashing. If an airbag does off, hazards flash and doors unlock. If an automatic transmission is successfully shifted into reverse while going forwards, the car will usually just shudder and immediately go into 2nd gear and "limp mode".

I did this to my parent's Buick Skyline in the 90s...driving along at 40 mph and my friend thought it would be funny to push it into reverse. The car lurched and then slowed down as if I'd braked hard...then it went 20 mph and ignored the fact that I wasn't pushing on the gas...When I did push on the gas, it wouldn't go any faster...when I pushed on the brake, I could feel the car trying to keep going forward, and the engine speed stayed up out of idle, like it was fighting me...since I was only going 20 mph, I just took the keys out, and the power steering went away, but the brakes worked.

That was a 96 Buick.
 
2010-02-24 02:22:17 PM  
factoryconnection: EighthundredmillionthFarker: I'm sure we'll never see a response from you.

Sorry, you impatient jerk, that I'm not always on the same thread:
"After the incident, Rhonda and Eddie Smith said they ran into one roadblock after another from Toyota, their dealer and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. She said Toyota said she was at fault and the automaker successfully fought an arbitration offer to have the company buy back the car.

"We were furious that Toyota called us liars a second time," she said. (link)


Ok, it's official.

You, sir, are an ass.

Learn to read. Show me a link, please, with proof that the car was faulty.

You can NOT, because there is NONE.

Go back to your other threads, and don't come back.
 
kin
2010-02-24 02:22:41 PM  
WienerButt: I drive an 07 Yaris so I'm patiently waiting for my car to turn into Optimus Prime and just run off the road leaving me behind.

Essentially, I'm getting a kick.

/I'm not worried


'08 Yaris here. I love my car.

Feeling like a dodged a bullet.

For now?

/getting a kick also
 
2010-02-24 02:22:52 PM  
kapaso: Thunderpipes: factoryconnection: redwards29a: Car and Driver concluded that, based on their emergency stopping tests, the Camry's brakes could overcome the accelerator in all cases even without a brake override, and that stopping distances with a wide-open throttle were largely indiscernible from regular braking.

I read that article, too, but I think the Camry had a 4-cyl and regardless is front wheel drive. It takes a lot more braking force to overcome the torque of a 3.5L V-6 than a 2.4L I-4. The E-brake does a lot better against non-driven wheels.

The Roush Mustang that they tested had some scary data... 700 feet to stop the car!

Well, 450 hp at full throttle is a little different than a 4 or 6 banger. We had the facts all out in another thread, Roush brakes are almost as good as a Vette, they are fantastic. Roush produces one of the best handling and performing cars anywhere near the price range. Yes, I am biased.

Biased and wrong.
Link

A lotus for a whole lot less.


I hope you are joking. You serious? Not even the same kind of car, jesus. Why not compare a motorcycle? Stupid Farkers always bring up stupid crap like that. Dumbass.

Oh ya, Lotus is 65-75k, Can get a Roush Mustang with all the handling and performance options for 45k. Moron.
 
2010-02-24 02:23:46 PM  
FTFA: After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

All Lexus needed to do was tell this woman that it was God (or the Devil) who made her car react that way and that it was in no way Lexus's fault.
 
2010-02-24 02:24:16 PM  
ScotterOtter: aimtastic: I believe that something really bad happened to this lady's car. I believe that she believes the story she's telling. But I also believe that the combination of panic at the time, the attention she's gotten since then, and a potential payday in the future have significantly altered the story that she believes is true.

Do you have any farking idea what the consequences are when caught lying to Congress?? I seriously doubt anyone would take that risk in order to get attention, as you put it.


um, where did he say in your quote that she's lying to get attention? the quote indicates his belief that she actually thinks her story is true, but a number of outside factors have clouded her perception of reality. this is far from unheard of, which is why a number of people convicted off of eye-witness testimony have later been proven innocent (through DNA, etc.) Humans have emotions like panic and whatnot; these emotions cloud our judgments and perceptions. it happens. it's probably happened here. Her story could easily have been inadvertently exaggerated without her necessarily being a lying publicity hound.
 
2010-02-24 02:24:20 PM  
featurecreep: OR - what is more likely is that she accidentally popped into the manu-matic gate and was upshifting when she thought she was going into neutral, then shifting into neutral when she thought it was reverse... which would explain why it eventually stopped "while in reverse." I would probably be gripping the selector hard enough not to notice it trying to spring back into the regular drive gate if I was under the impression that the car was possessed and taking off without me.

/My 2-cents.


This got argued in another thread which I don't feel like repeating. However, I believe the premise was that the Lexus Sport Shifter was not "properly identified"

i3.photobucket.com

It could be she brought the transmission into the side gate for sport shifting and had thought she had shifted into neutral. In a panic frenzy, she might have even thought she was shifting into reverse as well. It's also possible that there is a reverse block while in drive to prevent the user from shifting into reverse, or maybe you have to depress a button to shift it into reverse and park from drive. That could lead the user to trying to push it into reverse, nothing happens, so they shift all the way into the gear gate thinking it's neutral and the car begins accelerating again.

Either way, this type of design is more of an industry standard than anything specific to toyota/lexus.

Link (new window)

Link(new window)

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

While it may appear confusing, it's actually designed to be simpler. Usually the driver keeps in Drive, and all it takes is a simple push forward to slide into nuetral. However, I can see in a panicked frenzy a driver grabbing the shifter and pushing and pulling all over the place wouldn't be able to find the nuetral slot, or atleast keep it in long enough to see results.

I'll admit being one of the wrong ones in the other threads. However, this is the only time someone as made this allegation. At the very least, it might reveal that it's not a stuck pedal as it seems her husband and the tow truck driver were able to inspect it.

I can point specifically to one runaway driver who was on the phone with 911 and refused to keep her car into nuetral because she thought the engine was revving to loudly, so she shifted back into drive. The result was a state cruiser had to get in front of her car and break her car to a stop manually.

I'm not entirely convinced that the electronic transmission is at fault here. I'm inclined to think it was more of a case of a panicked driver moving the shifter all over the place.
 
2010-02-24 02:25:44 PM  
dood's got some decent engrish. Glad mom didn't buy a new toyota.
 
2010-02-24 02:26:32 PM  
Urinal Gum: FTFA: After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

All Lexus needed to do was tell this woman that it was God (or the Devil) who made her car react that way and that it was in no way Lexus's fault.


thats just awesome. I'm gonna start blaming random shiat on the devil.
 
2010-02-24 02:26:32 PM  
floor9: It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

So yeah, apparently that won't help.


I just push the clutch pedal in on my toyotas.

When driving my Chevy Avalanche, if I experienced uncontrollable acceleration I would just pick a nice soft Prius to rear-end. I hear those electricity recovering brakes are very strong....

And regarding the Lexus, I dont know the specifics, but if the transmission is electronically controlled with an electronic sensor reading shifter position then I guess shifting would not matter. I would think based on logic that putting it in neutral then giving the transmission a shock like ramming the brake and accelerator in turn should provoke a shift if the problem is at all mechanical.

I can tell you from experience of watching y father do this several times....If you accidentally shift a dodge ram van into reverse at 45 mph on an entrance ramp while trying to get more power out of the engine, it will in fact lock the wheels and stall the engine as you slide to a horrible grinding stop.
 
2010-02-24 02:26:49 PM  
I bought a 2001 Infinity I30 last August, I haven't found any sudden acceleration issues with it on the web. But the idle has gone up (3K RPM) for no reason a few times. Normally it happens when I come to a stop, I know nothing is in the way of the pedal, so maybe it's a sensor, not sure. But it has not been a safety issue, just annoying and goes away quickly, I've had to shut it off, then it was fine.

Now my Toyota on the other hand does have a sticky throttle. But then again it's a 79 Celica GT, 5sp manual. I have a speaker wire tied to the gas pedal, just a tug when the linkage gets stuck.
 
2010-02-24 02:27:08 PM  
chu2dogg:I can point specifically to one runaway driver who was on the phone with 911 and refused to keep her car into nuetral because she thought the engine was revving to loudly, so she shifted back into drive. The result was a state cruiser had to get in front of her car and break her car to a stop manually.

[Citation Needed]

Not because I think you're lying, I'd just like to hear that high-grade stupid caressing my ear meats.
 
2010-02-24 02:27:11 PM  
I had a 1988 Ford Escort manual with a stuck throttle. Brakes did slow the car down but did nothing for the RPM. I put it in neutral but regretted it since there was no transmission to slow down the RPM. I turned off the engine to keep from blowing it up (or so I thought) and then repeatedly started and stopped the engine to get home. Lubed the throttle cable at home and it was good. Oh yeah, I was also a punk kid new driver that didn't freak out about a malfunction. Manuals are faaabulous!

/old people suck! (says I in my advancing decrepitude)
//I know, I know; cool story bro.
 
2010-02-24 02:27:13 PM  
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

New models are generally released Late July/August for the following model year. Some vehicles, like the 2010 rush, '10 models were being sold/released in end of 08. Its all about marketing.
 
2010-02-24 02:28:09 PM  
"Thank God for _____."

This can be an expression uttered by a non-religious person. It's a turn-of-phrase. Example: "Thank God that fat woman at Wal-Mart didn't come out of the dressing room to early!"

Being that she says she was under the effect of panic, it is quite likely she said this regardless of whether or not she actually attributes the stopping of the car to God. Like when Sarah Silverman (read this recently so I remembered it first) says shes not religious except when she's on the floor of the bathroom being really sick.
 
2010-02-24 02:28:17 PM  
darcsun: Story of hers is complete bunk. Throwing a car into reverse at that speed will gernade the transmission, at best. At worst, a RWD car could flip if the driveshaft came loose and pole vaulted the car. Here is a video of a guy racing his mustang and accidentally putting the car in reverse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNLz9E92-FU


Annnnd the Lexus ES 350 is neither RWD, nor does it have a driveshaft, dumbass.
 
2010-02-24 02:28:51 PM  
Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

Which would then lock the steering column.

So, full throttle, the engine is pulling no vacuum so your brakes are weakend significantly, and now you can't steer the now ballistic missile you are buckled into.

Brilliant! You totally thought out that reply!

I'm sure you felt real smug and clever as you clicked 'add comment' though.
 
2010-02-24 02:28:56 PM  
kin: Feeling like a dodged a bullet.

yaris is a throttle cable i bet. it it gets stuck, put your foot under the pedal and lift up. you'll be okay.
 
2010-02-24 02:29:00 PM  
bhcompy: Completely ridiculous

Agreed. Dumb, even.

In the Toyota it's: Pull out key, unlock door, insert key, press start, drive away.

Seems like the right way to do things.
 
2010-02-24 02:29:16 PM  
Sounds like an "ON-STAR" short circuit to me.

At least the restarting part.

Why didn't she just open the door and stick her foot out.. C'mon, it might not be comfortable, but it worked for the cavemen long before ABS was invented.

So easy a caveman could do it..
 
2010-02-24 02:30:33 PM  
nyuhsuk: Barakku: nyuhsuk:
Bullshiat! 6 miles at 100 mph? Thats 600 miles! That's TORTURE!

What kind of retard math are you doing?

6 Miles times 100 mph is obviously 600 miles miles per hour. You *combine* the labels, stupid.

If you combine the labels, it's miles squared as you said retard.


God, would you spit the hook... they're pulling you into the boat!!!
 
2010-02-24 02:30:42 PM  
StreetlightInTheGhetto: I really do hate all of you right now. RTFA, or failing that, RTFT, or failing that, STFU.


I did RTFA before I made my comment. That's what raised suspicions in my mind. Do you have any specific things that you take issue with or are you just being a reactionary jerk and making spurious assumptions?


bhcompy: I'm not saying she's not lying, but have you ever been in a harrowing experience? I remember vividly every detail of my first car accident(a head on collision) that happened 11 years ago, and after talking to others about it, it seems that my experience/memory is not uncommon(including the whole world seemingly moving in slow motion)


More than once, which is one reason why her account struck me as suspect... I remember SOME details, but for some chick panicking in a car she seems to have been awful thorough and methodical... And sure I remember SOME of the details quite vividly, but others not at all. The way this woman recalls details she might be a Drell...
 
2010-02-24 02:30:47 PM  
TheBitterest:
Jesus: Hey dad, let's make this woman's car go 180kph, I've got $10 that says she still uses her cell phone.

God: You're on.


I worship you.
 
2010-02-24 02:32:02 PM  
Meepsta: ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

New models are generally released Late July/August for the following model year. Some vehicles, like the 2010 rush, '10 models were being sold/released in end of 08. Its all about marketing.


um no--its about the best mechanic software telling that a certain year make or model doesn't exist...meaning the crazy lady is batshiat and stupid. marketing...wtf?
 
2010-02-24 02:33:36 PM  
Gnaglor: "Thank God for _____."

This can be an expression uttered by a non-religious person.


As God is my witness, I'm as guilty as sin of having done this myself.
 
2010-02-24 02:34:02 PM  
yoshimi inaba looks like a bond villain.
 
2010-02-24 02:34:57 PM  
mongbiohazard: StreetlightInTheGhetto: I really do hate all of you right now. RTFA, or failing that, RTFT, or failing that, STFU.


I did RTFA before I made my comment. That's what raised suspicions in my mind. Do you have any specific things that you take issue with or are you just being a reactionary jerk and making spurious assumptions?


bhcompy: I'm not saying she's not lying, but have you ever been in a harrowing experience? I remember vividly every detail of my first car accident(a head on collision) that happened 11 years ago, and after talking to others about it, it seems that my experience/memory is not uncommon(including the whole world seemingly moving in slow motion)


More than once, which is one reason why her account struck me as suspect... I remember SOME details, but for some chick panicking in a car she seems to have been awful thorough and methodical... And sure I remember SOME of the details quite vividly, but others not at all. The way this woman recalls details she might be a Drell...


On the other hand, she did have about three and a half minutes to think about all this, 6 miles at 100 mph. That's a fair bit longer than most people's brushes with death I read about.
 
2010-02-24 02:35:09 PM  
Dan2ine: Hmmm is this the same woman?

good eye, you just might be right.
 
2010-02-24 02:36:26 PM  
mongbiohazard: I did RTFA before I made my comment. That's what raised suspicions in my mind. Do you have any specific things that you take issue with or are you just being a reactionary jerk and making spurious assumptions?

It's been stated repeatedly that she did not need to fish a cellphone out of her bag or fumble while dialing the phone to talk to her husband. Repeatedly.
 
2010-02-24 02:38:02 PM  
peewinkle: PRIUS'S DON'T HAVE "NEUTRAL." The "Drive", "Reverse", and the "Charge Battery While Coasting" options are it. There is a separate button for "Park."

/drives a Prius
//just to test it, I tried to "Power Down" the car while under acceleration. Button did nothing.
///actually hoping the thing takes off on me, I'll crash it and sue the shiat of some Toyota
//have not gotten a single recall on it, aside from the floor mats, which I knew as soon as I got the car were farked and got different ones
/I SAID I WILL SUE ME THE shiat OUT OF SOME TOYOTA


It does to have a Neutral. Hold the shifter knob to the left for a couple seconds and it will engage neutral.
 
2010-02-24 02:38:06 PM  
Thunderpipes: kapaso: Thunderpipes: factoryconnection: redwards29a: Car and Driver concluded that, based on their emergency stopping tests, the Camry's brakes could overcome the accelerator in all cases even without a brake override, and that stopping distances with a wide-open throttle were largely indiscernible from regular braking.

I read that article, too, but I think the Camry had a 4-cyl and regardless is front wheel drive. It takes a lot more braking force to overcome the torque of a 3.5L V-6 than a 2.4L I-4. The E-brake does a lot better against non-driven wheels.

The Roush Mustang that they tested had some scary data... 700 feet to stop the car!

Well, 450 hp at full throttle is a little different than a 4 or 6 banger. We had the facts all out in another thread, Roush brakes are almost as good as a Vette, they are fantastic. Roush produces one of the best handling and performing cars anywhere near the price range. Yes, I am biased.

Biased and wrong.
Link

A lotus for a whole lot less.

I hope you are joking. You serious? Not even the same kind of car, jesus. Why not compare a motorcycle? Stupid Farkers always bring up stupid crap like that. Dumbass.

Oh ya, Lotus is 65-75k, Can get a Roush Mustang with all the handling and performance options for 45k. Moron.


We get it, you pretend to have a mustang, you think they are cool.

Modern Mustangs are horseshiat. The 2011 is the closest thing to a palpable version they've produced since the fox body 5.0's.

Even those were nothing to write home about.

And with all the money required to redo the suspension geometry of the front and rear end of your roush rustang, as well as getting rid of the arcane live rear axle, you'd still be looking at ~$75k.

And the Lotus would still deftly out handle you in any conditions.
 
2010-02-24 02:39:50 PM  
StreetlightInTheGhetto: It's been stated repeatedly that she did not need to fish a cellphone out of her bag or fumble while dialing the phone to talk to her husband. Repeatedly.

Doesn't mean I have to believe it.
 
2010-02-24 02:41:17 PM  
Smidge204: Google tells me this is the interior of a 2007 Lexus ES3500. Here's a closeup of the gearshift:

So if putting it into Neutral didn't work, it's probably because there is a horrifically retarded computer sitting between the gearshift and the actuators in the transmission.

If they had certifications on drive-by-wire systems even a TENTH of the robustness of fly-by-wire systems on commercial airlines, I'd be happy.
=Smidge=


Or, is it possible that she never actually found Neutral? If you look at the the pattern of that shifter, N is pretty out of the way, it'd be very easy to skip right by N and go on to 2 or 3 or whatever. Also, I believe that transmission is one of the ones that lets you shift up through the gears on your own if you want, or just put it in Drive...
 
2010-02-24 02:41:39 PM  
FootInMouthDisease: Which would then lock the steering column.

So, full throttle, the engine is pulling no vacuum so your brakes are weakend significantly, and now you can't steer the now ballistic missile you are buckled into.

Brilliant! You totally thought out that reply!

I'm sure you felt real smug and clever as you clicked 'add comment' though.


I never said to remove the key, if left in accessory the wheel will not lock.

Curious...how will you be at full throttle if the engine is off?
 
2010-02-24 02:42:04 PM  
floor9: ...computer fails for any reason, the safety is suddenly "unsuppressed" and kicks in) are notoriously unreliable.

The Therac-25 comes to mind.


THIS
 
2010-02-24 02:42:07 PM  
mrshowrules: Nice little theory. I bet you are right. What prompted it, were you also wondering why they didn't release a statement on the heels of the testimony?


No, I wasn't wondering at all why they wouldn't do that. I've worked in PR before and it's what I would have advised... Don't respond directly because you'll look like the big mean corporate bully going after the poor victim regardless of how suspect her testimony seems to you.

Sometimes yes, you may want to rebut a damaging account, but not this time. Not when it's huge national news and you're being dragged in front of a congressional panel...
 
2010-02-24 02:42:55 PM  
FootInMouthDisease: Modern Mustangs are horseshiat. The 2011 is the closest thing to a palpable version they've produced since the fox body 5.0's.

Even those were nothing to write home about.


Have they ever?

/72 chevelle
//ha-ha guy laughs at ford muscle cars
 
2010-02-24 02:43:21 PM  
floor9: manimal2878: %100 bullshiat.

I don't know about that, man. There are too many complaints to be ignored.


And confirmation bias is a very powerful thing. Not saying that there isn't a core problem, here, but I wonder how many of these reports are people bending their experiences to match others' descriptions. And we are talking about the general public.
 
2010-02-24 02:44:35 PM  
Gnaglor: "Thank God for _____."

This can be an expression uttered by a non-religious person. It's a turn-of-phrase. Example: "Thank God that fat woman at Wal-Mart didn't come out of the dressing room to early!"

Being that she says she was under the effect of panic, it is quite likely she said this regardless of whether or not she actually attributes the stopping of the car to God. Like when Sarah Silverman (read this recently so I remembered it first) says shes not religious except when she's on the floor of the bathroom being really sick.


Unfortunately she was not recounting what she was saying at the time of the incident, but rather recounting the incident itself:

After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.
 
2010-02-24 02:44:40 PM  
Kar98: StreetlightInTheGhetto: It's been stated repeatedly that she did not need to fish a cellphone out of her bag or fumble while dialing the phone to talk to her husband. Repeatedly.

Doesn't mean I have to believe it.


So she just lied to Congress about using a Bluetooth for what, the hell of it?
 
2010-02-24 02:44:50 PM  
StreetlightInTheGhetto: mongbiohazard: I did RTFA before I made my comment. That's what raised suspicions in my mind. Do you have any specific things that you take issue with or are you just being a reactionary jerk and making spurious assumptions?

It's been stated repeatedly that she did not need to fish a cellphone out of her bag or fumble while dialing the phone to talk to her husband. Repeatedly.



Thank you. Now show me where I claimed she did either of those things, you reactionary jerk making spurious assumptions...

I'll cut to the chase: I didn't. You made that up all on your own.
 
2010-02-24 02:45:58 PM  
TwistedIvory: That's not really how cars work. For one, the parking/emergency brake is not electronic: It is a galvanized cable connected to the rear brakes.

I have a hard time envisioning an entirely electronic transmission selector, too.


I have a friend that leased a Passat for a while. It had an electronic E-brake, push-button style on the dash. I could not believe it - I refused to ride in the car, and brought up concerns with a lack of mechanical access to stopping power. Also, how the thing is supposed to work if the battery is dead/removed.
 
2010-02-24 02:46:55 PM  
wiregeek: [Citation Needed]

Not because I think you're lying, I'd just like to hear that high-grade stupid caressing my ear meats.


I saw it on the local news of one of many sudden acceleration clips. But now looking for a link I can't find it, as most of the high profile deaths are dominating google of various queries i tried.

If that calls into question, that's fine by me.
 
2010-02-24 02:49:44 PM  
labman: Anything software controlled can have problems. Maybe they used the same programmers who wrote the flight control systems for the predator UAV (new window).

(from the link about the cause of a crash of a predator: A second procedural error of note occurred when the pilot accidentally activated a program that erased the internal random access memory on board the aircraft during a flight. That this was even possible to do during a flight is notable in itself and suggests the relatively ad hoc software development process occurring for these systems)


if one of these were to be captured or shot down, i'm sure you wouldn't want the contents of the RAM to fall into enemy hands, hence the ability to erase RAM contents mid flight (and yes, it is possible to recover data from un-powered volatile RAM).
 
2010-02-24 02:50:55 PM  
nyuhsuk: Very true. It really is a totally new set of instructions. What I meant by the FOB battery dying thing is how to start the car with the valet key when the wireless FOB can't be detected.

I'm not sure which car we're talking about here, but the toyota setup for a dead fob battery is "put fob in keyhole and start car." Essentially, the only downside to a dead fob battery is that you'll have to take it out of your pocket and insert it into the dashboard.
 
2010-02-24 02:51:16 PM  
What I find interesting is all of the people in this thread saying there is no way the electronics in this car controls ALL of the functions. Than others come in and inform them that it is in fact true.

I would love to see the expression on there faces when they come to realization that the car they are driving has no physical connection from the gas pedal, the brake pedal or the transmission shifter to there corresponding function.

You know the first thought going through there head is "why the fark would they do that?".

Than they think, "Well, there MUST be a fail safe built in."

Toyota is really screwed over this.

And than they realize that there isn't and that Toyota has been installing the fail safe software fix while they are having the gas pedal "fixed".
 
2010-02-24 02:52:51 PM  
Woops...

'Toyota is really screwed over this.' should of been last.
 
2010-02-24 02:53:15 PM  
It takes 6 miles from highway speed at full throttle to hit 100 mph in a Lexus? A Ford Pinto could do better than that.
 
2010-02-24 02:53:16 PM  
I just can't believe Toyota doesn't have a brake override switch. My 2000 VW Jetta had that feature. Foot on the break for three seconds? Throttle drops to idle.

Throttle Position Sensors fail.
 
2010-02-24 02:55:03 PM  
"I put the car into all available gears, including neutral," she recalled about her fruitless attempt to slow the car down. Ms. Smith says she even put the car into reverse, in which position the gearshift remained as the car quickly reached a speed of 100mph.

After putting both feet on the brake and employing the emergency brake to no avail, Ms. Smith began to think that her only choice was to run her car into the guardrail, if only to save the other drivers on the highway.


If your car is speeding up and your first thought is to shift it into reverse rather than applying the brakes then you probably shouldn't be driving.
 
2010-02-24 02:56:55 PM  
i've got a problem with the whole battery kill switch idea. the altenator is what runs the car the battery only starts it. so you'd have to put a kill switch on both to kill all power to the car while started. cause even if you kill just the altenator you've got 30 miles of reserve in the battery till that's dead.
 
2010-02-24 02:57:03 PM  
MechTard: TwistedIvory: That's not really how cars work. For one, the parking/emergency brake is not electronic: It is a galvanized cable connected to the rear brakes.

I have a hard time envisioning an entirely electronic transmission selector, too.

I have a friend that leased a Passat for a while. It had an electronic E-brake, push-button style on the dash. I could not believe it - I refused to ride in the car, and brought up concerns with a lack of mechanical access to stopping power. Also, how the thing is supposed to work if the battery is dead/removed.


My Infiniti G37 cannot be placed into Neutral if your battery is dead. Also, the cool little feature with the automatic windows that slide down a bit upon opening and then back up when you shut the door sucks ass if the battery is dead. It will go down, but not back up. You have to jump the car and keep your finger on the window button to get it to go up and stay there and naturally let it die before you exit the vehicle if there isn't enough juice in your battery for a jump to work. Electronics can be pretty cool, but when there is a problem it is the worst thing on Earth.

I had an issue with my 84 Ford Bronco where the cruise control would randomly activate and it would accelerate to 55 mph on its own. Had to use parking break and put it in grass to get it to stop.

I was on the Beltway when a paint bucket flew out of a truck bed bc the asshat didn't have the tailgate up and his shiat secured and it hit my front fender putting my Prelude into a spin. Sadly I was manually shifting using the "SportsTronic" feature sans-clutch so the spin caused my car to stall due to the sudden change in RPM and gears. Thankfully I could put it in Neutral and start car and go to shoulder before being slammed into by an 18 wheeler, but had it been a new model with the fancy electronics, I probably wouldn't have been as lucky.

/Cool stories bro
 
2010-02-24 02:59:12 PM  
neilbradley: And confirmation bias is a very powerful thing. Not saying that there isn't a core problem, here, but I wonder how many of these reports are people bending their experiences to match others' descriptions. And we are talking about the general public.

Yeah, things like this (new window)

The woman was attempting to place her Toyota Camry in park when the vehicle suddenly accelerated up the curb and through the window of the local laundromat.
 
2010-02-24 03:00:27 PM  
Outlaw push-button start and make the ignition cylinder physically close a circuit to run the motor.
 
2010-02-24 03:02:33 PM  
A little late to chime in with this, but since nobody else has answered it, the "little software flag checky thing" that everyone is mentioning, where an embedded processor will check to see if the processor is doing something it really shouldn't be (like looping somewhere and not getting out) is called the watchdog timer (at least in most cases).

A watchdog timer will reset a processor if the timer itself isn't reset after a period of time. if the code has crashed or is stuck, it won't get to reset the watchdog timer and the watchdog will eventually (after a few milliseconds, typically, though it is variable) reset the processor.
 
2010-02-24 03:02:43 PM  
rigamrts: i've got a problem with the whole battery kill switch idea. the altenator is what runs the car the battery only starts it. so you'd have to put a kill switch on both to kill all power to the car while started. cause even if you kill just the altenator you've got 30 miles of reserve in the battery till that's dead.

False. The battery is an integral part of the charging system. If you remove the battery you break the circuit and the alternator loses its excitation field, shutting it down.
=Smidge=
 
2010-02-24 03:03:04 PM  
Orange Guy: Wow this is so scary on a personal note. In 1971, I was driving my Dad's (VERY Fast) 426 cu. in. 1969 Ford LTD on Northern State Parkway on Long Island when the gas pedal stuck in the floored poition. (Hey, I liked to pass quickly...I was a teenager).

The accelerator linkage had caught, I later found. Soon I was rocketing forward at 100 mph on a winding parkway, dodging slower moving cars, until I got near an exit in Westbury that I knew to be fairly long and straight. The brakes weren't stopping the car, so I turned off the engine, promply blowing the engine, but I was able to get the car to stop. Ford replaced the engine in warranty.

If turning off the ignition wold not have worked like it has not worked in these Toyota/Lexus incidents, I would not be here to type this.

It was a great car ... sharkskin seats and all!


Sounds like.
 
2010-02-24 03:03:32 PM  
AshHousewares18: Is this the thread where I get to brag about my manual transmission F-150 from 1997 and how much more awesome it is than them thar fancy luxury cars with their electronic controls?

Because mechanical stuff never fails, ever.


Not like this it doesn't.

A mechanical gas pedal fails, the mechanical and completely separate transmission control allows you to find neutral or a lower gear (manual or automatic). The non-ecu controlled key allows you to stop the engine. The mechanical brakes (mostly separate from engine, except for vacuum as previously mentioned) allow you to stop even if the engine is off. With these separate mechanical systems, single failure is possible (and dual failure is too however unlikely) but human intervention is also possible to avoid disaster. No single poinit of failure for everything exists.

Even if each electrical system is separate on these new vehicles, somewhere they will all eventually hit a single failure point even if that's the fuse panel. Catastrophy at that single point means you are a passenger along for the ride much and then the only thing is one word. First you scream that word then you actually do it.

I have experienced something similar to this in an all mechanical vehicle. Due to a cracked engine mount the throttle went wide open and stuck in my '72 Chevy (e/w dealer installed '71 LT-1). Dropped it into neutral. Then hit brakes. Problem avoided.

Since I had a rev limiter on it the engine did not grenade. Fixed the mount and that was that. Many years later I took that thing to the junkyard with 213,000 miles on a 95 degree day in stop and go traffic and the A/C going so cold you could see your breath. I still frown when driving by that junkyard.

Now, the $64 question. On those Prius controls, what does "B" stand for on the stick and is the separate "P" button for "Parking Brake" as some say, "Park" (for the transmission) as others say, or just "Pee" as in you've got no control of the car or your bladder?