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(The Consumerist)   If you think turning off the ignition, standing on the brakes, or putting the car in neutral will stop your out-of-control Toyota or Lexus, boy are you in for an amusing twist   (consumerist.com) divider line 724
    More: Scary, Lexus, Toyota, mats, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, maximum speed, guard rail, tow trucks, overrides  
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45025 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Feb 2010 at 12:21 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-02-24 11:38:39 AM
ZAZ: Are you sure your clutch is a direct mechanical link?

No. But I like the illusion in case my primary defense of "popping it out of gear" fails.
 
2010-02-24 11:39:35 AM
floor9: doglover: I always knew automatics were retarded, and this proves it. If it happened to me I'd try and hit the center wall maybe.

What amuses me is the people who insist -- INSIST -- that the transmission selector is a direct, mechanical link to the transmission itself. I am no mechanic, but I am willing to bet that in most cars today -- especially relatively high-end cars like Lexus -- this is no longer the case. Everything is electronic; the selector is just an input device.


I'm pretty sure it is manual on my 2001 Grand Prix. Not so sure about my 2006 Honday Odessey. There should be a list on the intertubes somewhere.
 
2010-02-24 11:47:02 AM
aimtastic: I believe that something really bad happened to this lady's car. I believe that she believes the story she's telling. But I also believe that the combination of panic at the time, the attention she's gotten since then, and a potential payday in the future have significantly altered the story that she believes is true.

Memory is a very fluid thing. You can fail to remember one thing properly. Vaguely think you remember it and then reinforce it through repetition that the memory becomes so strong you are positive. It is not a deliberate process. She could be quite honestly be misremembering this. In my experience, and please no one kill me for saying this, this is slightly more common with women.

Now having said that, I haven't heard her testimony and it could very well be completely true. I'm going to listen to it now.
 
2010-02-24 11:57:08 AM
If any of this is remotely true, that TWO components of the car could simultaneously fail, the car manufacturer known as Toyota should cease to exist.

While it is impossible to design a throttle system that could never fail, things stick, sensors error. It should be nearly impossible for that to fail at the same time as the brake sensors, which should kill any >5%-10% throttle when >5%-10% braking is applied. And in the 'that should never happen, but hey, people win the lottery even though it is 100 million to one' event that that does happen, the ability to put the car in neutral should not fail.

I am inclined to believe this women isn't 100% honest, and that the above scenario is in fact impossible, because you have to be one incompetent engineer to design a system where the throttle, brakes and shifting don't fail-safe.
 
2010-02-24 11:57:22 AM
benlonghair: But you had mechanical connections to the brakes, e brake and transmission. As opposed to the possibility of software going into meltdown and nothing responding.

Although I suppose the brakes in a Lexus are probably mechanical with power assist.


I practically had to stand on the brakes though. Meanwhile, steering onto the breakdown lane as not to be eaten by trucks. I got it into neutral, opened the hood, yanked on the cable and drove home.

Cellphone lady probably panicked and didn't/couldn't hammer the brake pedal down. She probably couldn't get it to shift and the processor didn't reset for a minute. She did say she traveled 6 miles, so the timing is about right.
 
2010-02-24 11:57:39 AM
mrshowrules: aimtastic: I believe that something really bad happened to this lady's car. I believe that she believes the story she's telling. But I also believe that the combination of panic at the time, the attention she's gotten since then, and a potential payday in the future have significantly altered the story that she believes is true.

Memory is a very fluid thing. You can fail to remember one thing properly. Vaguely think you remember it and then reinforce it through repetition that the memory becomes so strong you are positive. It is not a deliberate process. She could be quite honestly be misremembering this. In my experience, and please no one kill me for saying this, this is slightly more common with women.

Now having said that, I haven't heard her testimony and it could very well be completely true. I'm going to listen to it now.


Just watched the video and I completely believe her.
 
2010-02-24 12:00:01 PM
impaler: If any of this is remotely true, that TWO components of the car could simultaneously fail, the car manufacturer known as Toyota should cease to exist.

While it is impossible to design a throttle system that could never fail, things stick, sensors error. It should be nearly impossible for that to fail at the same time as the brake sensors, which should kill any >5%-10% throttle when >5%-10% braking is applied. And in the 'that should never happen, but hey, people win the lottery even though it is 100 million to one' event that that does happen, the ability to put the car in neutral should not fail.

I am inclined to believe this women isn't 100% honest, and that the above scenario is in fact impossible, because you have to be one incompetent engineer to design a system where the throttle, brakes and shifting don't fail-safe.


But if Toyota isn't immediately releasing a statement to that effect, you have to wonder.
 
2010-02-24 12:02:43 PM
Ingaba: I know it's not the best option to take in the event of runaway acceleration, but before I took the time to fish my cell phone out of my pocket and make a call I would have turned the key in the ignition to the off position and shut the car down.

In my car, a 2006 bmw, there is no key to turn. you put it into a slot and press a button. much like to make a phone call, you press a button on the steering wheel. I'm willing to bet the lexus is probably comprable to my car.
 
2010-02-24 12:13:31 PM
mrshowrules: impaler: If any of this is remotely true, that TWO components of the car could simultaneously fail, the car manufacturer known as Toyota should cease to exist.

While it is impossible to design a throttle system that could never fail, things stick, sensors error. It should be nearly impossible for that to fail at the same time as the brake sensors, which should kill any >5%-10% throttle when >5%-10% braking is applied. And in the 'that should never happen, but hey, people win the lottery even though it is 100 million to one' event that that does happen, the ability to put the car in neutral should not fail.

I am inclined to believe this women isn't 100% honest, and that the above scenario is in fact impossible, because you have to be one incompetent engineer to design a system where the throttle, brakes and shifting don't fail-safe.

But if Toyota isn't immediately releasing a statement to that effect, you have to wonder.


If Toyota hasn't raped and murdered a girl in 1990 wasn't born in the US hasn't done anything wrong, why won't they come out and say it? Their silence is damning!

Bad logic is bad.

I don't think Toyota is telling the whole truth simply because of the stories like this from both men and women where it is obvious it is not a matter of a pedal stuck on a floor matt. But I don't think it is intentional or malicious. The systems were probably designed to fail-safe, but programs glitch and things can go wrong. I think Toyota isn't saying anything because they want to preserve plausible deniability. Even if they think she's nuts and want to shove it in her face exactly how they design it to be fail-safe, it is in their better legal interest to remain silent.
 
2010-02-24 12:16:17 PM
hb0mb: In my car, a 2006 bmw, there is no key to turn. you put it into a slot and press a button. much like to make a phone call, you press a button on the steering wheel. I'm willing to bet the lexus is probably comprable to my car.

According to Toyota, if you press the start button and hold it for 2-5 seconds the car will turn off.
 
2010-02-24 12:24:04 PM
Which is why I'll always drive a manual.
 
2010-02-24 12:25:46 PM
floor9: It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

I've had a car with a sticky accellerator, nuetral did work. Hoever, I have no idea what I would do if that didn't work, and neither did using the brakes or turning the car off.
 
2010-02-24 12:25:52 PM
Ingaba: hb0mb: In my car, a 2006 bmw, there is no key to turn. you put it into a slot and press a button. much like to make a phone call, you press a button on the steering wheel. I'm willing to bet the lexus is probably comprable to my car.

According to Toyota, if you press the start button and hold it for 2-5 seconds the car will turn off.


I have to go to the "start" menu in order to shut this thing down? Who designed this monstrosity!?
 
2010-02-24 12:26:26 PM
Eddie Adams from Torrance: HansensDisease: After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

I wasn't aware that God controlled the reset pin on embedded processors!

Does that feature come with the car?

God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.


hiscrivener.files.wordpress.com

So, does Toyota adjust for different deities/agnostic/atheist?

/hot like Carrie Underwood
 
2010-02-24 12:26:50 PM
aimtastic: I believe that something really bad happened to this lady's car. I believe that she believes the story she's telling. But I also believe that the combination of panic at the time, the attention she's gotten since then, and a potential payday in the future have significantly altered the story that she believes is true.

THIS
 
2010-02-24 12:26:51 PM
I don't believe her.
 
2010-02-24 12:27:09 PM
floor9 2010-02-24 08:53:43 AM

It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

So yeah, apparently that won't help
.

Luckily, there's always an Internet Smart Guy to correct people!

Yeah. So apparently you believe this story.
C'mon. She's a woman, she can't drive, and concocts this BS story to avoid the embarrasment of her own incompetence.
 
2010-02-24 12:27:13 PM
impaler: I have to go to the "start" menu in order to shut this thing down? Who designed this monstrosity!?

It's the same as in your car? To start the car, and to shut it down, you use the same key in the same lock, no?
 
2010-02-24 12:28:03 PM
"After six miles later, God intervened,"

God is omnipotent, but sometimes he's just busy. He'll get to you when he has the time.
 
2010-02-24 12:28:32 PM
To those railing on her for calling her husband, you should probably watch the video of her testimony. She used the built in bluetooth in the lexus, which is voice activated. Wouldn't be my first choice of actions, but hey, everyone's different.

Anyway, the thing that really bothers me about the entire toyota ordeal is, it's multiple things causing the issue. That it happened in the first place(unintended acceleration)is unacceptable, that it has MULTIPLE causes(yes, the pedal is a cause, the force feedback part of the drive by wire pedal can wear and stick)is downright negligent.

And yes, for the record, many new cars, particularly luxury cars and hybrids, have electronically controlled transmission as well. Sometimes throwing it in N just does nothing, and the fact that the car lurched forward when her husband tried to move it doesn't seem impossible to me.


/a mechanic(though not in a few years, medical stuff)
//have some friends who work for toyota/lexus
///they're very busy these days, and some are changing jobs
////they have good personal reputations, and no longer wish to be associated with the company
 
2010-02-24 12:28:38 PM
Kar98: impaler: I have to go to the "start" menu in order to shut this thing down? Who designed this monstrosity!?

It's the same as in your car? To start the car, and to shut it down, you use the same key in the same lock, no?


Look at the lower left hand corner of your computer screen. It's an old joke.
 
2010-02-24 12:29:26 PM
TwistedIvory: For one, the parking/emergency brake is not electronic: It is a galvanized cable connected to the rear brakes.

Sure, but what motorist hasn't accidentally started driving with the hand brake still engaged? Mitch Hedberg wasn't wrong when he called it "an emergency make-the-car-smell-funny lever."
 
2010-02-24 12:29:44 PM
benlonghair: This is a) why I like standards and b) why I don't like super complicated electronic control systems.

I want a cable that goes from the gas pedal to the injectors or carburetor and a shaft that goes to the master cylinder.

/has blown break lines while going 35mph
//yay riding quads with no breaks for teaching me something
/like not panicing


stephen king could write a book about this. it's as though toyota is trying to kill us or something. i love my ranger but damn, that won't keep me safe from the toyotas on the road.
 
2010-02-24 12:30:11 PM
img1.fark.net Old lady does not know how to drive her car
 
2010-02-24 12:30:21 PM
Starting to think manuals are still the way to go... I almost switched to the dark side but now, fark that.
 
2010-02-24 12:30:30 PM
6 MILES OF TERROR
 
2010-02-24 12:30:44 PM
TwistedIvory: That's not really how cars work.

TI, it's not Christine, but this:

i46.tinypic.com

/didn't not know Dr. King directed that turd himself
 
2010-02-24 12:31:02 PM
www.cinemovies.fr

/unamused
 
2010-02-24 12:31:29 PM
Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

i911.photobucket.com
 
Ant
2010-02-24 12:31:29 PM
doglover: LOLIDRIVESTICKPAD

I always knew automatics were retarded, and this proves it. If it happened to me I'd try and hit the center wall maybe.


Yep. Manual transmission FTW!
 
2010-02-24 12:32:23 PM
If this happened to me, I'd just crawl out the sunroof and use my peener as a lasso to rope a streetlight and swing to safety. Then I'd use my lasso-weenie again to rescue all of the cute female drivers that were at least 18. Then I'd take them all out on my yacht. Then I'd have lunch. Then I'd have sex with all of the 18+ year old rescued females with my long Madonna-arm-like schlong.
 
2010-02-24 12:32:27 PM
I'd just like to say that the 1983 movie "Christine" sucked out loud. Especially if you've read the book.
 
2010-02-24 12:32:44 PM
Does Fred Flintstone's car have this problem?
 
2010-02-24 12:32:45 PM
floor9: INSIST -- that the transmission selector is a direct, mechanical link to the transmission itself. I am no mechanic, but I am willing to bet that in most cars today -- especially relatively high-end cars like Lexus -- this is no longer the case. Everything is electronic; the selector is just an input device.

/Drives a checy s-10.
it has direct linkage.
5 speed.
clutch.
//neighbor has a Lexus.
I fear riding with her.
///she loves to yak on the cell phone while driving, too.
 
2010-02-24 12:33:19 PM
She's so paniced that she calls her husband to say goodbye forever and yet can remember to the mph when her car started to function normally.

Hmmm...
 
2010-02-24 12:33:40 PM
Must have been the Kyle Busch edition.
 
2010-02-24 12:34:04 PM
Eddie Adams from Torrance: HansensDisease: After 6 miles God intervened as the car came very slowly to a stop.

I wasn't aware that God controlled the reset pin on embedded processors!

Does that feature come with the car?

God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.



Maybe that's what is meant when someone wishes you "God's speed"
 
2010-02-24 12:34:06 PM
So the car drives when you put it in neutral. Did the labels next to stick move ?
 
2010-02-24 12:34:49 PM
For the record - Consumerist trolls are far inferior to Fark trolls
 
2010-02-24 12:35:21 PM
medius: TwistedIvory: That's not really how cars work.

TI, it's not Christine, but this:



/didn't not know Dr. King directed that turd himself


I was thinking more of Dennis Weaver in Duel, back in 1971.
 
2010-02-24 12:35:28 PM
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

Most cars from [model year X] are available for sale in the late August/early September of [calendar year X-1].
 
2010-02-24 12:35:44 PM
Coming on a Bicycle: So the car drives when you put it in neutral. Did the labels next to stick move ?

The premise is that the transmission is fly by wire and unresponsive to her attempts to change gears.
 
2010-02-24 12:35:48 PM
floor9: It seems like in every thread about Toyota / Lexus, there's always a percentage of Internet Tough Guys (tm) who say "hurrr, I'd just put the car in neutral, I don't understand why everyone is so stupid".

So yeah, apparently that won't help.


I drive a stick shift. I guarantee it'll work.
 
2010-02-24 12:35:51 PM
ihatedumbpeople: Incident happened in 2006? I wonder when...our AllData system doesn't show the ES350 model was available until the '07 model year.

Which hit the market in '06. Like most models do.(ie: new model years come out in the numerical year before. 07 cars come out in 06, '11 cars come out in '10)
 
2010-02-24 12:35:59 PM
GAT_00: Because if people did that, they'd think it through and stop believing in God. I always have to stop myself from strangling someone when they say something like that.

Her car was hurtling down the highway and nothing that she could do could bring it under control. Then, randomly the car slowed down despite continued signs that the thing was f*cked up. Believe it or not, people reacting to unexplained events that without hours and hours of scientific thought aren't doing it just to piss off thin-skinned douche bags on the internet.

Lady: "Thank God I'm not dead."
ITA: "F*CK YOU YOU STUPID C*NT GOD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT WHY DON'T YOU PUT MORE THOUGHT INTO IT YOU FAT COW!!!"

Get a grip on yourselves.
 
2010-02-24 12:36:06 PM
manimal2878: Jimmy Devil Rocket Science: bongmiester: driving 100mph in an out of control vehicle she searches for her cell phone and calls her husband. i'm surprised none of the congressmen jumped on this.

manimal2878: Not so much that it could be possible, but that she had time to call her husband, and the car wanted to start itself again and only by the grace of god did it stop six miles after her prayers.

You know how I know you two didn't read the article?

You know how I know your reading comprehension sucks?

Fearing death, she called husband. "I knew he could not help me, but I wanted to hear his voice one more time," she recalled. "After six miles later, God intervened," and the car began to slow on it own, though the engine continued to rev itself in cycles. When the vehicle had finally slowed to around 35 mph, she was able to stop the engine.


You know how I know your reading comprehension sucks?

FTFA: I called my husband on the blue tooth phone system.
 
2010-02-24 12:36:41 PM
mantabulous: Eddie Adams from Torrance: God was a real dick for letting her ride 6 miles at 100 MPH before stopping her car.

You forget that it's all part of his plan. His ways are beyond your understanding.


Really. At that speed, she covered the distance in under 4 minutes. Between the Earth-Heaven Dial-Up Time-Delay (she used her cell phone) and standard customer request queues, I'd say she got pretty good service. It's not like she had a T3 direct connection and a dedicated Prayer Server.

FTA: I figure the car is going to go its maximum speed and I was going to have to put the car into the upcoming guard rail in order to prevent killing anyone else

That made me think she'd already taken out someone on the road.
 
2010-02-24 12:36:44 PM
The farking Prius work car gives me fits all the time. Sometimes it's slapstick comedy trying to get the damn thing into drive or park. It seems to get easily "confused". It isn't even part of the recall (2007), but if this womans Lexus was anything like this Prius, I believe her.
 
2010-02-24 12:37:36 PM
Back in the 1980s there was a massive panic over Audis that exhibited "Sudden Acceleration Syndrome". Thousands of compliants, lawsuits, and a huge hit piece on Sixty Minutes with stories of cars driving themselves into swimming pools, through garage doors, and so forth.

So the DOT did a massive study on "Sudden Acceleration Syndrome", only to conlude that the most likely cause of "Sudden Acceleration Syndrome is "pedal misapplication".
 
2010-02-24 12:37:46 PM
voodoowizard: Starting to think manuals are still the way to go... I almost switched to the dark side modern age but now, fark that.

FIFY
 
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