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(Mother Nature Network)   Hospital infections kill 48,000 people each year. If only there was some building we could take these sick people to in hopes of them being cured   (mnn.com) divider line 114
    More: Scary, hospital-acquired infections, internal medicines, Archives of Internal Medicine, genetic diseases, sepsis, pneumonia, Johns Hopkins University, hygiene  
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3519 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Feb 2010 at 5:33 AM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-02-24 02:51:06 AM
If only some submitters weren't retards and read the articles they submitted
 
2010-02-24 02:59:15 AM
Is submitter a Palin American? Closing that gap would pay for Health Care for 30 million Americans, and not raise taxes.

Are we beginning to see the cost savings?
 
2010-02-24 03:04:01 AM
My first major hospital stay was about 3 weeks. I left with a cough that lasted about 3 months. Blech. I'm probably immune to most things now.
 
2010-02-24 03:08:26 AM
A hospital? What is it?
 
2010-02-24 03:13:30 AM
Surely you can't be serious!
 
2010-02-24 05:43:25 AM
MRSApocalypse!
 
JJR
2010-02-24 05:50:07 AM
Ramanan Laxminarayan ?
 
2010-02-24 05:52:42 AM
farm4.static.flickr.com
 
2010-02-24 05:58:18 AM
rackrent: A hospital? What is it?

It's a big building with patients. But that's not important right now.
 
2010-02-24 06:09:44 AM
Take the sickest people, concentrate them into one building where antibiotic pressure constantly exists, and share equipment and healthcare personnel between them. Can nosocomial infections be reduced? Undoubtedly. Can they be eliminated? Not bloody likely.
 
2010-02-24 06:09:48 AM
rackrent: A hospital? What is it?

It's like a bank but with doctors.
 
2010-02-24 06:14:35 AM
Yes, if only there was a central building where we could take all these sick people to.... that doesn't contain lots of sick people with messed up immune systems spreading exotic infections.


If only this central area could dispense antibiotics too, and somehow not leave the leftover antibiotic resistant strains to terrorize the already sick people collected at this central area...
 
2010-02-24 06:17:47 AM
davidshi123: Yes, if only there was a central building where we could take all these sick people to.... that doesn't contain lots of sick people with messed up immune systems spreading exotic infections.


If only this central area could dispense antibiotics too, and somehow not leave the leftover antibiotic resistant strains to terrorize the already sick people collected at this central area...


Copycat.
 
2010-02-24 06:17:51 AM
BlackMuntu: rackrent: A hospital? What is it?

It's like a Deposit-Only bank, but with doctors.


FTFY
 
2010-02-24 06:21:28 AM
Petit_Merdeux: Surely you can't be serious!

I am serious, and don't call me Shirly.
 
2010-02-24 06:24:06 AM
hablemosdemi.googlepages.com
Wanted for... oh wait, he never gets in trouble.
 
2010-02-24 06:27:14 AM
Yes, this is a repeat from 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005.....
 
2010-02-24 06:42:55 AM
Yesterday, I had a patient, male, 47 years old, fully capable of walking to the bathroom, sit up on the side of the bed, and piss on the floor. No attempt to use a urinal, he just pissed on the floor.

When I asked him why he did that, he said "I don't know"

The patient on MRSA isolation 2 doors down refused to stay in his room, and kept using the public mens room down the hall.

Remember that the next time you visit some one in the hospital.
 
2010-02-24 06:55:24 AM
Surprised the number would actually be that low.

/DRTFA
 
2010-02-24 07:01:42 AM
Well that's scary as hell.

/rtfa
 
2010-02-24 07:04:47 AM
Fark submitters post over 48,000 ignorant headlines every year.

If only there were institutions they could attend in hopes of learning to think critically.
 
2010-02-24 07:08:25 AM
cretinbob: If only some submitters weren't retards and read the articles they submitted

FTFA: Nearly 50,000 U.S. medical patients die every year of blood poisoning or pneumonia they picked up in hospital, a study has shown.

WTF are you babbling about?

It's also called Kennel Cough, citizen. In Bush's America you can get a good dose at the VA hospital, too. Thank God the Tea Party folks are on the job.

i242.photobucket.com

/Nobamacare and all that
 
2010-02-24 07:13:36 AM
I especially like how they give you the infection, and then bill you to cure it.
 
2010-02-24 07:16:13 AM
I die 3-4 times per week from hospital infections, people like me really skew the statistic..
 
2010-02-24 07:16:34 AM
SilverStag: I especially like how they give you the infection, and then bill you to cure it.

Wrong.

Nosocomial infections are paid for by the hospital in the US. Insurance and medicare/caid won't pay for them.
 
2010-02-24 07:18:32 AM
SilverStag: I especially like how they give you the infection, and then bill you to cure it.

Actually, hospitals are freaking out because Medicare is refusing to pay for hospital acquired sicknesses.

I'm working on a project that reduces the chances that bacteria will infect needleless ports on CVCs. Blood stream infection is a huge problem from both a hospitals and patients standpoint.
 
2010-02-24 07:21:21 AM
IKillBugs: Nosocomial infections are paid for by the hospital in the US.

Is it nice in your fantasy world? Can I come in and play ponies?
 
2010-02-24 07:22:51 AM
The point at the end of the article about how unacceptable it is that this happens is actually pretty valid: the studies looking at nosocomial infection prevention by simply using Purell (or equivalent) each time you enter and exit a patient room show that it is remarkably effective. I know it sucks that we have created these superbugs, but it's definitely not too late to stop spreading them like we do.
 
2010-02-24 07:26:35 AM
LAUGHTER OL!
 
2010-02-24 07:26:51 AM
boobsrgood: IKillBugs: Nosocomial infections are paid for by the hospital in the US.

Is it nice in your fantasy world? Can I come in and play ponies?



No, actually this was a recent change within the past couple of years. Medicare/Medicaid won't pay for them any longer.
 
2010-02-24 07:33:16 AM
HVLT: The point at the end of the article about how unacceptable it is that this happens is actually pretty valid: the studies looking at nosocomial infection prevention by simply using Purell (or equivalent) each time you enter and exit a patient room show that it is remarkably effective. I know it sucks that we have created these superbugs, but it's definitely not too late to stop spreading them like we do.

Or we could use medical facilities for procedures and bring back house calls. I guess it'd be more difficult to charge $5k per house call than it is to charge $5k per day, though.
Anyway, iatrogenic "disease" is far worse than nosocomial infections. Together, they kill enough people each day to fill a 747. I'm pretty sure if the airlines lost a 747 every single day, there would be some pressure on them to fix their behavior.
 
2010-02-24 07:38:15 AM
untaken_name:
Or we could use medical facilities for procedures and bring back house calls. I guess it'd be more difficult to charge $5k per house call than it is to charge $5k per day, though.
Anyway, iatrogenic "disease" is far worse than nosocomial infections. Together, they kill enough people each day to fill a 747. I'm pretty sure if the airlines lost a 747 every single day, there would be some pressure on them to fix their behavior.


Not sure exactly where you delineate between iatrogenic disease and nosocomial infection (i'd think one would be included in the other?) but that's exactly right, that's a ton of people. What I have noticed in all these studies, however, is that it is never described how ill these 48,000 patients are. These articles always make it sound like we are walking outside and killing hundreds of perfectly healthy people a day, whereas by and large the deaths from these infections occur in extremely ill folk.
 
2010-02-24 07:40:43 AM
rosehip No, actually this was a recent change within the past couple of years. Medicare/Medicaid won't pay for them any longer.

It's not just medicare/medicaid. One of the "changes" in our insurance policy this year is that they will no longer pay hospitals for these infections.
 
2010-02-24 07:40:58 AM
I recall reading somewhere about a hospital along the Eastern front during WW2 relocating to a salt mine for safety. The rate of hospital-caused infection dropped to near zero in the cave.
 
2010-02-24 07:41:10 AM
rosehip: boobsrgood: IKillBugs: Nosocomial infections are paid for by the hospital in the US.

Is it nice in your fantasy world? Can I come in and play ponies?


No, actually this was a recent change within the past couple of years. Medicare/Medicaid won't pay for them any longer.


If they try to bill you for an infection which was an act of either negligence or misconduct contact your insurance, they will go after them.
 
2010-02-24 07:42:59 AM
I like how they keep repeating that number of patients who died, but never bother telling us how many patients didn't get sick in the hospital. How can I know if it's time to panic again if I don't know what percentage of patients caught that MSRA?

/lies
//damned lies
///and statistics
 
2010-02-24 07:43:32 AM
Medicare/Medicaid cut out paying for this stuff in 2009.

More cuts are on the way. Effective 7/1/10 they're eliminating payments to community based resource services, which are basically in home services/post rehab/etc. Since the states are federally mandated to provide these services they'll have to do out of their own funds.
 
2010-02-24 07:45:53 AM
HVLT: Not sure exactly where you delineate between iatrogenic disease and nosocomial infection (i'd think one would be included in the other?)

Iatrogenic disease refers more to specific things done by a doctor. Wrong meds or wrong dose prescribed, wrong body part removed, etc.
Many hospital infections aren't the result of action or inaction by a specific person, but are more indicative of a breakdown of the system as a whole.
 
2010-02-24 07:47:27 AM
HVLT: The point at the end of the article about how unacceptable it is that this happens is actually pretty valid: the studies looking at nosocomial infection prevention by simply using Purell (or equivalent) each time you enter and exit a patient room show that it is remarkably effective. I know it sucks that we have created these superbugs, but it's definitely not too late to stop spreading them like we do.

We have pressurized alcohol dispensers where I work, still no dice. Visitors are by far the worst offenders for spreading of diseases where I work, damn dirty sonamabiatches touch everything and wonder why their friends/relatives have to stay longer. We are actually banning children because they were bringing in H1N1 and giving it to people like candy here,
 
2010-02-24 07:48:10 AM
Well, if they didn't poison people with vaccinations and chemotherapy, maybe there'd be less of a death count.


/Shimano with 25 lb. test
 
2010-02-24 07:48:19 AM
Alcohol kills about that many a year. And it's just suppose to kill germs.
 
2010-02-24 07:59:32 AM
untaken_name: HVLT: The point at the end of the article about how unacceptable it is that this happens is actually pretty valid: the studies looking at nosocomial infection prevention by simply using Purell (or equivalent) each time you enter and exit a patient room show that it is remarkably effective. I know it sucks that we have created these superbugs, but it's definitely not too late to stop spreading them like we do.

Or we could use medical facilities for procedures and bring back house calls. I guess it'd be more difficult to charge $5k per house call than it is to charge $5k per day, though.
Anyway, iatrogenic "disease" is far worse than nosocomial infections. Together, they kill enough people each day to fill a 747. I'm pretty sure if the airlines lost a 747 every single day, there would be some pressure on them to fix their behavior.


Wasn't something they showed in Sicko, that France or one of those countries has house calls as part of it's system?
 
2010-02-24 08:01:12 AM
HVLT: The point at the end of the article about how unacceptable it is that this happens is actually pretty valid: the studies looking at nosocomial infection prevention by simply using Purell (or equivalent) each time you enter and exit a patient room show that it is remarkably effective. I know it sucks that we have created these superbugs, but it's definitely not too late to stop spreading them like we do.

I don't think they count as "superbugs" when they're transmitted because the medical staff don't wash their farking hands.
 
2010-02-24 08:07:29 AM
Mikenolike: If they try to bill you for an infection which was an act of either negligence or misconduct contact your insurance, they will go after them.

And this is the reason that zero-value "money back coupons" are so valuable profitable.

So many claiming to be human. So few with real experience.
 
2010-02-24 08:10:28 AM
manimal2878: Wasn't something they showed in Sicko, that France or one of those countries has house calls as part of it's system?

No idea. That would require watching a Michael Moore movie, and I just can't bring myself to do that. Japan used to do this, but hospitals are becoming more prevalent. Why does the rest of the world follow the U.S.'s lead, even when what we're doing is stupid?
 
2010-02-24 08:19:07 AM
Barakku: HVLT: The point at the end of the article about how unacceptable it is that this happens is actually pretty valid: the studies looking at nosocomial infection prevention by simply using Purell (or equivalent) each time you enter and exit a patient room show that it is remarkably effective. I know it sucks that we have created these superbugs, but it's definitely not too late to stop spreading them like we do.

I don't think they count as "superbugs" when they're transmitted because the medical staff don't wash their farking hands.


Eh, when you have to go to your third line antibiotics, or when standard pre-op prophylaxis is Vanc/Gent, you've got a pretty unnatural set of bacteria...maybe "super" isn't the right word, but if we could just clean these up with a shot of penicillin we wouldn't be having this discussion.
 
2010-02-24 08:23:25 AM
-Is that why it's called a Staff Infection? 'Cuz you get it from the hospital staff?


/yeah, I know
 
2010-02-24 08:23:33 AM
This article (new window) from over two years ago goes into more detail of a VERY cheap fix that actually works. Wedding planners use the technique. Pilots use the technique. There's a chance that you've used the technique before going on vacation.

Use a checklist, and stick to it, to avoid SNAFUs.

Page 3-4 of the article tells of the Flying Fortress, and how they came up with The Checklist after the first test flight crashed because of pilot error...

They could have required Model 299 pilots to undergo more training. But it was hard to imagine having more experience and expertise than Major Hill, who had been the U.S. Army Air Corps' chief of flight testing. Instead, they came up with an ingeniously simple approach: they created a pilot's checklist, with step-by-step checks for takeoff, flight, landing, and taxiing. Its mere existence indicated how far aeronautics had advanced. In the early years of flight, getting an aircraft into the air might have been nerve-racking, but it was hardly complex. Using a checklist for takeoff would no more have occurred to a pilot than to a driver backing a car out of the garage. But this new plane was too complicated to be left to the memory of any pilot, however expert.

With the checklist in hand, the pilots went on to fly the Model 299 a total of 1.8 million miles without one accident.


Medicine today has entered its B-17 phase. How does The Checklist apply when used in medicine? Page 4 of 8...

In 2001, though, a critical-care specialist at Johns Hopkins Hospital named Peter Pronovost decided to give it a try. He didn't attempt to make the checklist cover everything; he designed it to tackle just one problem, the one that nearly killed Anthony DeFilippo: line infections. On a sheet of plain paper, he plotted out the steps to take in order to avoid infections when putting a line in. Doctors are supposed to (1) wash their hands with soap, (2) clean the patient's skin with chlorhexidine antiseptic, (3) put sterile drapes over the entire patient, (4) wear a sterile mask, hat, gown, and gloves, and (5) put a sterile dressing over the catheter site once the line is in. Check, check, check, check, check. These steps are no-brainers; they have been known and taught for years. So it seemed silly to make a checklist just for them. Still, Pronovost asked the nurses in his I.C.U. to observe the doctors for a month as they put lines into patients, and record how often they completed each step. In more than a third of patients, they skipped at least one.
The next month, he and his team persuaded the hospital administration to authorize nurses to stop doctors if they saw them skipping a step on the checklist
; nurses were also to ask them each day whether any lines ought to be removed, so as not to leave them in longer than necessary. This was revolutionary. Nurses have always had their ways of nudging a doctor into doing the right thing, ranging from the gentle reminder ("Um, did you forget to put on your mask, doctor?") to more forceful methods (I've had a nurse bodycheck me when she thought I hadn't put enough drapes on a patient). But many nurses aren't sure whether this is their place, or whether a given step is worth a confrontation. (Does it really matter whether a patient's legs are draped for a line going into the chest?) The new rule made it clear: if doctors didn't follow every step on the checklist, the nurses would have backup from the administration to intervene.

Pronovost and his colleagues monitored what happened for a year afterward. The results were so dramatic that they weren't sure whether to believe them: the ten-day line-infection rate went from eleven per cent to zero. So they followed patients for fifteen more months. Only two line infections occurred during the entire period. They calculated that, in this one hospital, the checklist had prevented forty-three infections and eight deaths, and saved two million dollars in costs.


One list. Five bullet points One hospital saved two million in costs and saved lives.

It really is this simple.
 
2010-02-24 08:29:02 AM
When I had cancer, they did this surgery on my leg and it got a staph infection. I went back to the doc a couple of days after the surgery because the whole side of my leg was black. He said it was just swelling. I went back a couple of days later when it looked even worse and they took a sample. Turned out it was staph. They had to cut the incision back open and basically let it drain over the course of a few days. The medicine I had to take was awful also. I've now got a nice black scar down the side of my leg.
 
2010-02-24 08:33:13 AM
Mikenolike: If they try to bill you for an infection which was an act of either negligence or misconduct contact your insurance, they will go after them.

If you don't have insurance the hospital wins. Buddy of mine got MRSA while in the hospital a little over a year ago. Tripled his hospital bill. Self-employed, unable to work, no recourse.
 
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