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(Telegraph Nepal)   Under the advice of his astrologers, atheist governor worships water buffaloes to appease the planet Saturn   (telegraphnepal.com) divider line 186
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5138 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Feb 2010 at 4:27 PM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-02-13 09:38:12 PM  
letrole: Atheism does not exclude the supernatural.

Yes, it does. Agnosticism does not. Don't feed letrole.
 
2010-02-13 09:42:50 PM  
HoratioGates: letrole: Atheism does not exclude the supernatural.

Yes, it does. Agnosticism does not. Don't feed letrole.


Actually, no it doesn't. Empiricism excludes the supernatural. Atheism only makes a statement about God(s). Most atheist don't believe in anything supernatural because they also are empiricists.
 
2010-02-13 09:54:23 PM  
I shall worship planet Saturn
Throbbing in a spiral pattern
With a sacrificial slattern
That's good enough for me!
 
2010-02-13 10:13:05 PM  
Baryogenesis: HoratioGates: letrole: Atheism does not exclude the supernatural.

Yes, it does. Agnosticism does not. Don't feed letrole.

Actually, no it doesn't. Empiricism excludes the supernatural. Atheism only makes a statement about God(s). Most atheist don't believe in anything supernatural because they also are empiricist


I disagree, but words have evolving meanings, so I will rephrase it. Most people who identify themselves as Atheist (at least in the United States) are identifying themselves as someone who does not believe in anything supernatural. Just like there are Big-C-Little-c Catholics, Big-D-Little-d democrats, etc., there may in fact be deferent definitions of the word atheist, but the most common definition in usage would be, I believe, one that excludes all supernatural beliefs.

Now, just to throw some fuel on the fire- Christians are not monotheistic any more than the Hellenists were. Zeus was a creator god and there were many lesser gods. Christianity is the same thing, except to differentiate themselves they have chosen to call the lesser divine beings demons, devils and angels. What's more, many denominations of Christianity not only believe in multiple gods, but pray to these lesser gods.
 
2010-02-13 10:25:19 PM  
HoratioGates: I disagree, but words have evolving meanings, so I will rephrase it. Most people who identify themselves as Atheist (at least in the United States) are identifying themselves as someone who does not believe in anything supernatural. Just like there are Big-C-Little-c Catholics, Big-D-Little-d democrats, etc., there may in fact be deferent definitions of the word atheist, but the most common definition in usage would be, I believe, one that excludes all supernatural beliefs.

Adding on all that extra stuff merely defines a particular kind of atheist.
 
2010-02-13 10:28:26 PM  
Atheism = There's no "higher being" at the wheel of the universe.

It's that simple.

Atheists are people who have come to the conclusion that there's no god or gods. No consciousness that made the world or us or anything. There is no design or designer.

Any arguments about any definition beyond this are academic.

If you're going to argue that "most" atheists don't believe in "the supernatural," you're going to have to define the later term.

Because one thing most atheists would probably agree on is that while there are many things in the universe that mankind cannot (yet) explain, that's perfectly OK.
 
2010-02-13 10:29:09 PM  
HoratioGates: What's more, many denominations of Christianity not only believe in multiple gods, but pray to these lesser gods.

There's also argument about the nature of the Trinity, salvation, and grace. It's no wonder there are so many different denominations in Christianity.

HoratioGates: Zeus was a creator god and there were many lesser gods. Christianity is the same thing, except to differentiate themselves they have chosen to call the lesser divine beings demons, devils and angels.

Both demons and angels are portrayed as supernatural beings superseding humans in ability. To say they equate (at least roughly) with lesser gods or demigods of other religions is probably quite accurate. If you look at general themes, without getting into the details deeply enough to bog yourself down, most religions are quite similar.
 
2010-02-13 10:29:39 PM  
later latter

FYFM
 
2010-02-13 10:46:48 PM  
Pro Zack: //mine is fast, but yours is slow.

THIS.

Now when do we worship baby kangaroos?
 
2010-02-13 10:59:27 PM  
detfrost1:
God damn you're stupid.


No, you're new here.
 
2010-02-13 11:05:50 PM  
bookman:
Atheism is a Religion

As practiced by the majority of "me-too" atheists, pretty much "This".


No.
 
2010-02-13 11:17:31 PM  
Darkness is not "a kind of light." Atheism is the absence of religion. Not to mention an indication of sanity...
 
2010-02-13 11:47:00 PM  
Desmo: bookman:
Atheism is a Religion

As practiced by the majority of "me-too" atheists, pretty much "This".

No.


Yes.
 
2010-02-13 11:48:57 PM  
A person can be both atheist and superstitious, if their superstition does not posit the existence of a god or gods. A person can even be an atheist and worship something, as long as they don't believe that the object of their worship is a god. The terms "atheist" and "rationalist" are not equivalent.

The guy may also just be a) trying something to see if it works, b) going through the steps to prove that it doesn't work, or c) just indulging someone.
 
2010-02-13 11:50:05 PM  
letrole: Lar Jorgen: He will become the the first troll on my 'favorite' list. I think I will continue to add trolls to that list. Just to see where it goes.

My surname is Le Trôle. It does not mean 'troll'.


This doesn't mean that you aren't a troll.
 
2010-02-14 12:01:41 AM  
Unreadable article is ... unreadable.
 
2010-02-14 12:14:49 AM  
I stopped reading after the first 8 words FTFA: "Astrologers have suggested the Unified Maoists' Party Chief"

Can't believe subby bothered reading the rest of this stupid article.
 
2010-02-14 12:17:43 AM  
100 Watt Walrus: Under the advice of his astrologers, atheist governor worships water buffaloes to appease the planet Saturn

people worship non-deities. this is an unsurpsising outcome.
communists and socialists alike are farking stupid and/or insane.
 
2010-02-14 12:44:42 AM  
bookman: Desmo: bookman:
Atheism is a Religion

As practiced by the majority of "me-too" atheists, pretty much "This".

No.

Yes.


I really don't think so. I feel a lot of nostalgia, especially around Christmas and Easter for my religious upbringing. I don't have any disrespect for the traditions, the community and other aspects of Christian worship that I'm familiar with. I don't think the institution is devoid of intellectual thought and other valuable contributions. I just can't reconcile my current understanding of the world and cosmos from what I have to regard as mythology. There certainly are angry atheists (many of them ex-Christians)but I don't think this is the rule.
 
2010-02-14 12:56:54 AM  
bookman: Desmo: bookman:
Atheism is a Religion

As practiced by the majority of "me-too" atheists, pretty much "This".

No.

Yes.


OK. What I should have said was "What makes you so sure?"
 
2010-02-14 06:54:44 AM  
Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Atheism = without religion. It's the definition. That doesn't mean without philosophy, and not all philosophies are religions. Conflating these terms is a mark of stupidity.
 
2010-02-14 10:42:33 AM  
How is this different from Reagan's reliance on astrologers?
 
2010-02-14 12:23:14 PM  
The guy is a Maoist! Maoists are supposed to be atheist. They are hardcore Marxist, materialist, Communists. Communism and Marxism is supposed to be atheist... in reality they often turn into a cult-of-personality that mimics a religion, but to be in the Marxist club you have to at least pretend you don't believe in a supreme being.
 
2010-02-14 12:29:03 PM  
coopermatt: How is this different from Reagan's reliance on astrologers?

Because Reagan was a Christian... thus Reagan didn't profess a disbelief in the supernatural. It is a small jump from believing that the universe was created by an all-powerful sky-spirit, to believing that the planets have a subtle effect on reality.

When Atheists believe in things like astrology or the supernatural, it is an extra dose of stupid... Because at least most Christians are socialized as Christians from birth, so it requires a major psychological re-alignment to reject that basic philosophy. Where as, atheists have no excuse for dabbling in the supernatural.
 
2010-02-14 12:34:16 PM  
Sgt. Pepper: letrole: Lar Jorgen: He will become the the first troll on my 'favorite' list. I think I will continue to add trolls to that list. Just to see where it goes.

My surname is Le Trôle. It does not mean 'troll'.

This doesn't mean that you aren't a troll.


Actually, it emphasizes that he's a troll. It's an occupational surname, you see.
 
2010-02-14 12:45:10 PM  
Retarded Rabid Elk: coopermatt: How is this different from Reagan's reliance on astrologers?

Because Reagan was a Christian... thus Reagan didn't profess a disbelief in the supernatural. It is a small jump from believing that the universe was created by an all-powerful sky-spirit, to believing that the planets have a subtle effect on reality.

When Atheists believe in things like astrology or the supernatural, it is an extra dose of stupid... Because at least most Christians are socialized as Christians from birth, so it requires a major psychological re-alignment to reject that basic philosophy. Where as, atheists have no excuse for dabbling in the supernatural.


Actually, an atheist politician can go through the meaningless motions of the believers as a public relations exercise, and that's a perfectly good excuse. As wiggling the buffalo's pecker in the direction of Mecca, while drinking wine that they claim to be blood, or whatever they're doing has no effect on reality other than the perception of some stupid humans, an atheist can do whatever religious rituals with no impact.

The xian, OTOH, has to fundamentally reject their single god to participate in such activities. I believe their religion prescribes something they call hell for this transgression.
 
2010-02-14 12:47:52 PM  
letrole: HoratioGates: And I'd like to give a shout out to people who insist on calling Atheism a religion. It is not a religion. It is an epistemology. It is the epistemology of reason, the belief that you go where the evidence takes you. If 'GOD' showed up on the world tomorrow, the first things atheists would do is look for the strings, as it were.

If, after a thorough investigation the evidence of God outweighed the evidence against God, atheists would then believe in God. Someone who follows the epistemology of faith however will not change their opinion to suit reason. The central conceit of religion is that you are supposed to take it on faith, that to question faith is a sin.

It might be worth noting that this is the same thing that any good conman would do, building up someone's belief that they have been specially selected to know the secret that will bring them prosperity, that if they ask questions they could accidentally screw everything up. Trust your leaders and everything will be OK.

The confirmation that Atheism is a Religion comes from an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denials, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.


Do you believe in vampires? Not believing in vampires is a religion. Your religion is non-vampire-believing. You worship the concept that vampires don't exist. The concept of there being no vampires is your god, and your savior!!!

As a Christian, I feel strongly that anyone who has any religion other that Christianity, goes to hell. Since you clearly believe in the religion of non-vampire, you can't be a full Christian. If you don't start believing in vampires, right now, you will burn in hell for all eternity!

Or, you could just accept that not believing in some supernatural thing doesn't make it a religion.
 
2010-02-14 01:01:29 PM  
letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

And I eat crispy bacon every morning as a sacrifice to my non-god.
 
2010-02-14 01:04:06 PM  
mreuther: Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Atheism is a Religion like actively berating those who happen to collect stamps is a hobby. A piss-poor hobby/religion, but a hobby/religion regardless.
 
2010-02-14 01:08:43 PM  
Retarded Rabid Elk: Do you believe in vampires? Not believing in vampires is a religion.

No evidence for it. As soon as it's common for smug and clueless Avampirists to leap up and actively preach their faith in vampires not existing, you might be able say Avampirism is a Religion.
 
2010-02-14 01:17:46 PM  
letrole: mreuther: Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Atheism is a Religion like actively berating those who happen to collect stamps is a hobby. A piss-poor hobby/religion, but a hobby/religion regardless.


Except it's not collecting stamps, it's psychotic delerium.
 
2010-02-14 01:26:48 PM  
Jon iz teh kewl: Except it's not collecting stamps, it's psychotic delerium.

Yes. No. Whatever.

Atheism is an active pursuit, not merely the absence of something.

Round and Round We Go.
 
2010-02-14 03:21:47 PM  
letrole: squirrelflavoredyogurt: The lack of belief is a belief now? Do you think abstinence is a sexual position too?

Ever decreasing circles. One might present a tedious and ironically fervent argument that Atheism is not a Religion, but it's pure folly to deny that Atheism is a Belief.


The definition of belief that I'm using here is "confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof".

What is it that you're suggesting atheists are confident in the existence of?
 
2010-02-14 03:33:47 PM  
airplayne: fatassbastard: So if they do worship one another, are they no longer atheists based on that fact alone?

squirrelflavoredyogurt: Just because something could be worshiped does not mean it is worshiped. I still think we should lock you up though because you could shoot someone, therefore you are a murderer.

It all depends on the level of devotion and importance you put on what you are worshiping. Arguably there is at least one thing that everyone puts the level of devotion that would make it their god.


The level of devotion and importance you put on something determines if you are or not meeting the definition of worshiping.

So you're arguing that because you might believe that someone else has a level of devotion to something that you suggest is worshiping that it is therefor a 'god' to them and they cannot be an atheist.

I'm curios why you feel that you are qualified to determine the level of devotion someone else has to something. Why do you so arrogantly believe that your own assessment of a persons devotion to something is greater than their own assessment of it?
 
2010-02-14 04:19:06 PM  
squirrelflavoredyogurt: Why do you so arrogantly believe that your own assessment of a persons devotion to something is greater than their own assessment of it?

You're "debating" with people who hold two conflicting ideas in their heads at the same time:

1.) Atheists are bad people, and deserving of less trust than any other demographic

B.) Everyone worships something so there's no such thing as an atheist
 
2010-02-14 11:01:09 PM  
fatassbastard: squirrelflavoredyogurt: Why do you so arrogantly believe that your own assessment of a persons devotion to something is greater than their own assessment of it?

You're "debating" with people who hold two conflicting ideas in their heads at the same time:

1.) Atheists are bad people, and deserving of less trust than any other demographic

B.) Everyone worships something so there's no such thing as an atheist



Sounds similar to how most Fark atheists hold opinions regarding theism vs. religion or anyone who isn't an atheist.

1. atheism isn't a belief (even though it is a belief in metaphysical naturalism among other things)

b. religious people are all fanatical fundamentalist nutjobs and biblical literalists or similar and deserve to be mocked, ridiculed and attacked by atheists, or
b. anyone who isn't an atheist must be a fundamentalist, or
b. anyone who isn't an atheist must be irrational, or
b. anyone who isn't any atheist must be a creationist and ID'er and against evolution, or blah blah blah blah blah blah blah....

or
b. the usual troll baiting imaginary war between science and religion.

or similar endless bullshiat.

/those are some real nice filters you got there Lou.
 
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