zabadu: You obviously know no pilots, nor have flown yourself. Wings or not, he was trying to save the ship.

A penny for your assumptions. Sure he was trying, but he had zero chance of success. Don't be so sensitive dude - it's just a fact... he had no wings. Might as well have been a pressurized shipping container at that point - there was no flying to be done. There's literally nothing a pilot can do in that situation (65,000 feet in a shuttle with no wings) that will alter the inevitable outcome. No, I don't want to hear about you gliding a cessna in after you ran out of fuel.

When I read things like this, the fact that the astronauts were alive during the fall, I have a hard time thinking anything other than, "Cool, at least they had that going for them", since I know that's what I would want if it were me.

And when I read other people's responses it really hits home for me how I just can't understand everyone else's view of death at all.

Dec. 07, 1941


Think about it for just one moment.



In truth, them shuttle geeks went easy.

It's believed that Christa Macauliff mixed pop rocks and Coke and started the chain reaction.

Oddly coincidentally, it was the exact same day Mikey did the same thing.

GhostWing: With respect to haddie, and haddie's parent, we do better to remind ourselves of those who believe that pushing the frontier is worthwhile; and to realize that we have those among us who have the courage and talent to do this job.

None of us here will live to see the day when spaceflight becomes routine; but with people like these among us, that day will arrive.

"We choose to go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is hard."

I hope space exploration never ends because the US gets bored.

Renowned transvestite sexologist: There's nothing in that article that wasn't publicly known by 1989. Most, if not all, of the info in the linked article were known by the end of 86. I still have a copy of the Orlando Sentinel that detailed the results of the investigation in a box somewhere.

/lived in Titusville during the time. I was a kid, but I still remember.

It's MSNBC breaking news man!

tbernot: The ships were already built (With the exception of Enterprise which was built from spare parts after the loss of Challenger.) A retrofit would not of been possible.

ITYM "Endeavour"...the Enterprise was the mock-up.

haddie: Witchydiva: zabadu: haddie: .....
The space mission as a whole has been a colossal success. It's people who focus on the tragedies that get the attention.

Congrats on having a dad with balls of steel.

Could be mom. :)

Could be, but isn't.

zabadu:
The space mission as a whole has been a colossal success. It's people who focus on the tragedies that get the attention.

Congrats on having a dad with balls of steel.

Not exactly something I can take credit for, but thanks all the same.

I applaud him, even though he's Canadian. :) Godspeed to your dad and safe return.

I feel all warm now feeling a connection to that flight. I'll be watching.

Two minutes and forty five seconds.

I can't possibly imagine what was going on in that capsule during that time frame.

Just sit still and count out 30 seconds. It feels a lot longer than it is, and these people were falling for 5 times that duration, knowing the entire time that they were going to die.

I still can't wrap my head around it. Utterly devastating.

Standard procedure:

1.) Stay seated.
2.) Put head down between legs.
3.) Kiss your ass goodbye.

grinderman: Has space exploration or travel been made profitable yet? I don't keep up on that side of things much. If so, I say we continue. If not, then it seems like there are more pressing matters down here that need our attention.

Profitable? Like selling stuff to Martians?

tbernot: relcec: heypete: relcec: The aerodynamic forces argument doesn't fly my amateur opinion. They eventually reached a point of equilibrium in this flight after failure. At many points on the way down a capsule could have launched a drag chute you would think. The B52 bombers have a capsule that ejects the entire crew iirc. The problem wasn't a physical one but a reluctance to take on the cost and time necessary to redesign the shuttle I would think.

The Wiki entry I linked to explained why an ejectable crew capsule was infeasible. Additionally, affixing a drag chute to the non-detachable crew compartment would be rather silly: the crew compartment separating from the Challenger was an anomaly, and was not designed to be separated in such a way. A repeat of the Challenger disaster would probably result in the complete destruction of the crew compartment.

B52s have individual ejector seats.

And, no the wiki said it was difficult, not that it was impossible. And I was talking about a drag chute on a capsule. It just so happens while difficult and expensive, it would have saved the 7 lives of another similar disaster and in theory the one that took the second shuttle. So saying it was infeasible seems a little disingenuous to me. Nasa appears to have bet that they wouldn't experience another failure and were off by a bit.

"Cabin ejection would work for a much larger portion of the flight envelope than ejection seats, as the crew would be protected from temperature, wind blast, and lack of oxygen or vacuum. In theory an ejection cabin could be designed to withstand reentry, although that would entail additional cost, weight and complexity."

The ships were already built (With the exception of Enterprise which was built from spare parts after the loss of Challenger.) A retrofit would not of been possible.

That doesn't make it infeasible to create the system, like you said. It just costs money and time, like I said. They sacrificed safety for money and time. I imagine your the type that would say insuring everyone in America is infeasible as well.

Witchydiva: haddie:
Could be, but isn't.

Figured your dad was the Canuck, with your username. I met him at JSC when I was a teenager. Hope he was as cool as a dad as he was to our little tour group. :)

Best Dad I've ever had.

djh0101010: tbernot: The ships were already built (With the exception of Enterprise which was built from spare parts after the loss of Challenger.) A retrofit would not of been possible.

ITYM "Endeavour"...the Enterprise was the mock-up.

Woops, you are correct...

zabadu: GhostWing: With respect to haddie, and haddie's parent, we do better to remind ourselves of those who believe that pushing the frontier is worthwhile; and to realize that we have those among us who have the courage and talent to do this job.

None of us here will live to see the day when spaceflight becomes routine; but with people like these among us, that day will arrive.

"We choose to go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is hard."

I hope space exploration never ends because the US gets bored.

"I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the Earth."

--Jump-cut to 1969--

"Here, men from the plant Earth first set foot upon the moon. July, 1969 A.D.

"We came in peace for all mankind."

Apollo XI was the only mission patch that had no names on it.

/Those moments still give me chills

Ah yes, we basically had this thread here on Fark a couple weeks ago. Someone here said it, paraphrasing - it's one thing that career astronauts lost their lives, but when the teacher lost her lives it touched us all.

I watch the launch and disintegration every year on the anniversary of the disaster. Seeing the sheer size and magnitude of the shuttle program and launch; seeing the hopeful and humble Mrs.McAuliffe walking with the crew to the shuttle for the last time, and then disintegration, confusion and finally grief of her family really evokes an odd emotion I never sense anywhere else. I guess we were all robbed of something that day.

I'm personally glad the shuttle program is ending. Though it has contributed a lot to space exploration and science, the aerospace personnel I have spoken to haven't have a lot of positive things to say about the concept in general.

tbernot: djh0101010: tbernot: The ships were already built (With the exception of Enterprise which was built from spare parts after the loss of Challenger.) A retrofit would not of been possible.

ITYM "Endeavour"...the Enterprise was the mock-up.

Woops, you are correct...

Wait, a mistake, a correction, and an acknowledgement, and now a followup to same, without snark? Where the hell am I, and what has happened to fark?

/off to bed...
//you win or something, jerk. Sheesh.

JohnBigBootay: zabadu: You obviously know no pilots, nor have flown yourself. Wings or not, he was trying to save the ship.

A penny for your assumptions. Sure he was trying, but he had zero chance of success. Don't be so sensitive dude - it's just a fact... he had no wings. Might as well have been a pressurized shipping container at that point - there was no flying to be done. There's literally nothing a pilot can do in that situation (65,000 feet in a shuttle with no wings) that will alter the inevitable outcome. No, I don't want to hear about you gliding a cessna in after you ran out of fuel.

So instead, you suggest he should have just thrown up his arms and screamed like a little girl? It doesn't matter if he had zero chance of success. A pilot will do what he needs to do, even if futile, all the way down. Giving up is not an option.

Subby: You do realise that the article you're linking to is citing 22 year old evidence, right? There's absolutely nothing new in the article.

/still sad

Mentat:

They have video of the Columbia crew during descent. The YouTube version cuts out right before the disaster. I don't know how much more there is. That was tough to watch regardless.

From what I read, the tape recorded from the inside out, so the last few minutes of it were burned away. All they found was a loose spool, and had to put it in another cassette.

relcec: That doesn't make it infeasible to create the system, like you said. It just costs money and time, like I said. They sacrificed safety for money and time. I imagine your the type that would say insuring everyone in America is infeasible as well.

I am saying it would not of been possible. You could not take apart the shuttle and re-assemble it with this new system you are talking about. An entirely new craft would need to be designed.

farkin_Gary: Dec. 07, 1941


Think about it for just one moment.



In truth, them shuttle geeks went easy.

January 27, 1967.

Pearl Harbor was a breeze for some of those soldiers compared to that.

as long as they didnt shiat their pants and die like a biatch, they were fine...

rip

gweilo8888: Subby: You do realise that the article you're linking to is citing 22 year old evidence, right? There's absolutely nothing new in the article.


You do realize that you're not the first to point this out in the thread?

"Scob fought for any and every edge to survive. He flew that ship without wings all the way down."

No he didn't. That was the problem.

Well that was the saddest farking article I've read all year.

djh0101010: //you win or something, jerk. Sheesh.fark you. It should of been called Enterprise!

/better?

I can't even insult right...

fail.

GhostWing: zabadu: GhostWing: With respect to haddie, and haddie's parent, we do better to remind ourselves of those who believe that pushing the frontier is worthwhile; and to realize that we have those among us who have the courage and talent to do this job.

None of us here will live to see the day when spaceflight becomes routine; but with people like these among us, that day will arrive.

"We choose to go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is hard."

I hope space exploration never ends because the US gets bored.

"I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the Earth."

--Jump-cut to 1969--

"Here, men from the plant Earth first set foot upon the moon. July, 1969 A.D.

"We came in peace for all mankind."

Apollo XI was the only mission patch that had no names on it.

/Those moments still give me chills

Those who did not live during those moments will never know the thrill we had.

Space flight will never be profitable (for grinderman). That's not the point.

zabadu: So instead, you suggest he should have just thrown up his arms and screamed like a little girl? It doesn't matter if he had zero chance of success. A pilot will do what he needs to do, even if futile, all the way down. Giving up is not an option.

I suggest nothing of the sort. I merely point out that in this case nothing would have worked. I fully support the idea that any pilot of an aircraft I'm in to keep on trying anyway. But if we have no wings at 65,000 feet, deep down inside I'm gonna go ahead and suspect we're not gonna make it.

I remember a rumor going around that some of them survived impact and drowned, which I am guessing is simply impossible?

Wonder if they knew to clench their butts

tbernot: relcec: That doesn't make it infeasible to create the system, like you said. It just costs money and time, like I said. They sacrificed safety for money and time. I imagine your the type that would say insuring everyone in America is infeasible as well.

I am saying it would not of been possible. You could not take apart the shuttle and re-assemble it with this new system you are talking about. An entirely new craft would need to be designed.

No this is what you said originally. "the aerodynamic forces are incredibly great and they would be unlikely to survive. Basically, so long as one is riding the fire, you're committed for better or worse."

And the wiki page you linked disagrees with your assessment of impossibility of retrofit as well.

"Cabin ejection was not pursued for several reasons:
* Major modifications required to shuttle, likely taking several years. During much of the period the vehicle would be unavailable."

whatever.

JohnBigBootay: zabadu: So instead, you suggest he should have just thrown up his arms and screamed like a little girl? It doesn't matter if he had zero chance of success. A pilot will do what he needs to do, even if futile, all the way down. Giving up is not an option.

I suggest nothing of the sort. I merely point out that in this case nothing would have worked. I fully support the idea that any pilot of an aircraft I'm in to keep on trying anyway. But if we have no wings at 65,000 feet, deep down inside I'm gonna go ahead and suspect we're not gonna make it.

Who says he didn't?

jeffdo1: I remember a rumor going around that some of them survived impact and drowned, which I am guessing is simply impossible?

unpossible...yes

tbernot: djh0101010: //you win or something, jerk. Sheesh.fark you. It should of been called Enterprise!

/better?

I love you, man.

And this time, I really AM going to bed.

zabadu: farkin_Gary: Dec. 07, 1941


Think about it for just one moment.



In truth, them shuttle geeks went easy.

January 27, 1967.

Pearl Harbor was a breeze for some of those soldiers compared to that.

Yeah, I've read about that. Sucked to be them.

We should all remember that as long as the space station is up there we'll be going back.

dennysgod: Wonder if they knew to clench their butts

Thanks for being the 27th person to point out this news is old, because none of us knew that until now.

jeffdo1: I remember a rumor going around that some of them survived impact and drowned, which I am guessing is simply impossible?

I believe you are guessing correctly. No one survives that impact.

"Challenger, go with throttle up."

Words I will never forget.

zabadu: Who says he didn't?

I am unaware of anyone who says he didn't.

tbernot: I can't even insult right...

fail.

Eh, it's ok (pats tbernot, condescendingly, on the head), we all knew what you meant.

/loser
//no look dammit, now the bottle is empty and I _AM_ going to bed. And this time I mean it.

///back in an hour when I can't farking sleep, still, again. Chronic insomnia sucks.

zabadu: GhostWing: zabadu: GhostWing: With respect to haddie, and haddie's parent, we do better to remind ourselves of those who believe that pushing the frontier is worthwhile; and to realize that we have those among us who have the courage and talent to do this job.

None of us here will live to see the day when spaceflight becomes routine; but with people like these among us, that day will arrive.

"We choose to go to the moon not because it is easy, but because it is hard."

I hope space exploration never ends because the US gets bored.

"I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the Earth."

--Jump-cut to 1969--

"Here, men from the plant Earth first set foot upon the moon. July, 1969 A.D.

"We came in peace for all mankind."

Apollo XI was the only mission patch that had no names on it.

/Those moments still give me chills

Those who did not live during those moments will never know the thrill we had.

Space flight will never be profitable (for grinderman). That's not the point.

I remember being glued to the radio for Alan Shepard's first flight. Fifteen minutes to fly into space and coast back.

Amazing.

John Glenn's flight rocked even more. Three orbits, and we saw it all.

Mesmerizing, from start to finish.

grinderman, don't be one of those people who'll think space flight is profitable long after everyone else is taking vacations in orbit, ok?

farkin_Gary: zabadu: farkin_Gary: Dec. 07, 1941


Think about it for just one moment.



In truth, them shuttle geeks went easy.

January 27, 1967.

Pearl Harbor was a breeze for some of those soldiers compared to that.

Yeah, I've read about that. Sucked to be them.

We should all remember that as long as the space station is up there we'll be going back.

I really must be old. You READ about it? I remember it happening. Listen to THOSE tapes.

In 8th grade math class, the PA system came alive letting us know.

/never forget