hot dam >> even when the power goes out your fleshlight will always be charged

CavalierEternal: In a related story, expect the price of a pack of AA Batteries to hover somewhere around $850.

Yeah, somehow I doubt Duracel is going to like a battery you only have to buy once every 20 years.

But where are the miniature nuclear fission batteries that Asimov promised me? I mean, what could go wrong?

dehehn: CavalierEternal: In a related story, expect the price of a pack of AA Batteries to hover somewhere around $850.

Yeah, somehow I doubt Duracel is going to like a battery you only have to buy once every 20 years.

I'm sure the patents will be buried next to the ones for the 100 mpg carburetor and the perpetual transmission.

Linux_Yes: why do u think light bulbs go out after x number of hours?? they COULD develop them to last much longer, but then they wouldn't be able to make a killing selling light bulbs....

Right, because charging $0.85 for an incandescent bulb is making GE rich. Their huge market capitalization has nothing to do with selling other, high-margin items like jet engines, steam turbines, financial services, and support for everything.

Pay no attention to the long-life halogen bulbs, CFLs, regular fluorescent tubes, or the other lighting technology in the pipeline. It sure looks like people are building longer-lasting, better light bulbs.

Even CFLs are about $1.50 each, which isn't bad considering they consist of a fair bit of electronics (as opposed to a bit of tungsten wire).

Of course, the physics behind incandescent light bulbs is well-understood, and it's well-known what causes their relatively short life and fragility. Halogen bulbs address some of those issues while keeping the basic technology (a heated wire) the same, while CFLs and others use different methods entirely.

If a company is able to construct a longer-lasting battery, word will get out, manufacturers will include them in devices, and people will buy them in droves.

Not everything is a horrible conspiracy, and technology has improved dramatically in just the last few years: remember how awful NiCd batteries were in laptops? Huge clunky things with a life of an hour or so. Modern lithium-ion batteries are incredible -- smaller, lighter, and can run my laptop for 6 hours at a very modest price.

/knows you're trollin'

heypete: /knows you're trollin'

Then why bother typing a response?

RemyDuron: heypete: /knows you're trollin'

Then why bother typing a response?

He's fightin' the good fight to explain to folks who really think there is a car that goes 500 miles on a thimblefull of water, but THE MAN is preventing it.

An article like this comes out every few months but nothing ever comes out of it. I'll believe it when I see it, on a store shelf.

Ohhhhhh - they meant the battery could have many more charge cycles.

Here I was hoping I might be able to hear every song with my Ipod on shuffle without having to plug in at some point.

RemyDuron: heypete: /knows you're trollin'

Then why bother typing a response?

This is why there's an "ignore" feature built in to Fark.

TimeWaste: An article like this comes out every few months but nothing ever comes out of it. I'll believe it when I see it, on a store shelf.

This.

Would be nice to have such batteries tho, the electric cars would benefit the most from this, because people change their laptops and phones quite often these days anyway.

RemyDuron: Then why bother typing a response?

Because I was taking a break from Diablo II and had nothing better to do.

heypete: If a company is able to construct a longer-lasting battery, word will get out, manufacturers will include them in devices, and people will buy them in droves.

Not everything is a horrible conspiracy, and technology has improved dramatically in just the last few years: remember how awful NiCd batteries were in laptops? Huge clunky things with a life of an hour or so. Modern lithium-ion batteries are incredible -- smaller, lighter, and can run my laptop for 6 hours at a very modest price.

Don't kid yourself. There have been many manufacturers that put themselves out of business over the last century making things that were so well-built they never broke. There was a story a while ago about one of the first commercial light bulbs that has been constantly lit in a California firehouse for over a century. If every light bulb was made to those standards manufacturers would drive themselves out of business.

My school's machine shop has a LeBlonde lathe from the mid 60's and Lodge & Shipley lathe that was surplused from some shop on a WW2 battleship, both of which are in serviceable condition. The machine shop at work has a Cincinnati boring mill that made aircraft parts during WW2 and a Cincinnati mill from the 20's. A local welding shop has another Lodge and Shipley lathe even older. In my personal collection are several calipers and micrometers spanning the 1900's to the 40's from such manufacturers as Brown & Sharpe, Pratt & Whitney, Starrett, and J.T. Slocomb. My pride and joy is a B&S #10 micrometer made of stainless steel. Not a blemish and not a thousandth of slack. Just this passed Friday I helped lift out a huge US Motors electric motor and transmission unit that's been in constant use since the 50's that only needs servicing every 20 years or so. US Motors IP has traded hands lots of times over the years and the current company that holds most of it only does small motors up to 20 hp.

The common theme among all of those companies is that they are either no longer in business or they no longer make those machines or tools. Starrett doesn't even have the same quality in its new products. The machines and tools had exceptionally good service rates requiring few replacement parts or machines.

The point is that when someone says "they don't make 'em like they used to" it's true. If you make a product that will last a long time you will put yourself out of business. Untold numbers of companies have found that out the hard way.

My dad bought a CFL bulb when the first time they came around and it worked for well over a decade. Good luck getting the newer ones to last over 2 years. Manufacturers learned their lesson: if you don't have repeat customers you don't make money, no matter what price level.

Stibium: Don't kid yourself. There have been many manufacturers that put themselves out of business over the last century making things that were so well-built they never broke. There was a story a while ago about one of the first commercial light bulbs that has been constantly lit in a California firehouse for over a century. If every light bulb was made to those standards manufacturers would drive themselves out of business.

The light bulb you're referring to is four watts. I think its longevity can be attributed to its extremely low power output, rather than some sort of superior design.

The point is that when someone says "they don't make 'em like they used to" it's true. If you make a product that will last a long time you will put yourself out of business. Untold numbers of companies have found that out the hard way.

That's true, they don't make things like they used to. While some things are made far better (e.g. laptop batteries are smaller, lighter, and last longer than ever before), some things aren't made nearly as well, but few people are willing to pay the high cost for durable, heavy-duty things anymore -- technology advances, and newer, better things are often available (particularly to individual consumers). Take, for example, washing machines; the old ones work just fine, but newer ones use less water, power, and detergent.

There's still a lot of heavy-duty stuff that's made to last. A lot of the equipment in my lab is a mix of old and new, but they're all made to a high quality, and I'm sure they'll last quite some time.

My dad bought a CFL bulb when the first time they came around and it worked for well over a decade. Good luck getting the newer ones to last over 2 years

I've had a GE CFL on a non-surge-protected outlet that's been running for about four years now, about 8-14 hours a day. Still works just fine. My folks have some CFLs at their house that have been going for over six years with no signs of failure, even those in recessed fixtures.

That said, modern CFLs are in a state of constant development: more efficiency, better spectra, lower prices, etc. On the whole, they're getting better, and it wouldn't surprise me if people keep buying the latest generation to take advantage of those improvements.

/tends to avoid buying cheap stuff wherever possible, as he likes things to last a while

Ω I see what you did thar, smitty

\Got Nothing.

Did anyone actually read the article?

It's not saying that the charge of the battery will last 20 years (that's ridiculous, conservation of energy and all), it's saying that it can survive enough charge/discharge cycles that the battery itself will work for 20 years (vs the ~4-5 years that NIMH batteries seem to last).

IE, it doesn't mean that you're going to be able to drive your electric car around for 20 years without recharging it. It just means you won't have to replace the batteries for 20 years.

/my external flash unit eats batteries for lunch

pollardy: hot dam >> even when the power goes out your fleshlight will always be charged

Eureka! I just solved the energy crises:

FleshLight + 20 year rechargeable battery + Real Shake fashlight charger:




Unlimited power from your local High School.

how about improve the battery so i don't have to charge it every 20 minutes? i don't want to have to charge it 10000 times

CavalierEternal: In a related story, expect the price of a pack of AA Batteries to hover somewhere around $850.

I don't think we will ever see AA lithium-ion batteries. The problem is that lithium ion batteries require electronics in the battery pack for safety--thus you only see them in battery packs, not individual batteries.

Stibium:
Don't kid yourself. There have been many manufacturers that put themselves out of business over the last century making things that were so well-built they never broke. There was a story a while ago about one of the first commercial light bulbs that has been constantly lit in a California firehouse for over a century. If every light bulb was made to those standards manufacturers would drive themselves out of business.

No. We know how to make lights like that ancient one but nobody's going to do so. It's a horrible deal. The light has lasted so long because it runs cool--but that means it produces less light and much less efficiently.

Head down to the hardware store and you'll find long-life bulbs. Compare them to regular bulbs--you'll find the long-life ones put out less light for the same amount of power. In the old days there were lights for photographers that went the other way--very, very bright in exchange for a much shorter lifespan.

There's also the general problem that in general people won't pay the costs of making things last longer.

I'm getting a kick out of this

/no really

eggrolls: HERE WE COME.

which motorcycle is that? Is it electric? if so, I've never seen such a good looking electric bike before.

Loren : I don't think we will ever see AA lithium-ion batteries. The problem is that lithium ion batteries require electronics in the battery pack for safety--thus you only see them in battery packs, not individual batteries.

lol wut?



/did you mean rechargeable aa lions

Alphakronik: dehehn: CavalierEternal: In a related story, expect the price of a pack of AA Batteries to hover somewhere around $850.

Yeah, somehow I doubt Duracel is going to like a battery you only have to buy once every 20 years.

I'm sure the patents will be buried next to the ones for the 100 mpg carburetor and the perpetual transmission.

Yeah, giving up trillions a year for opening up a new market sector (electric automobiles, which are largely non-starters because of the battery tech being low-density) to save a million-dollar sector makes a lot of business sense.

My wife will be pleased

/so lonely

Starryeyes: /3rd time I've had to replace my MBP battery in 2 years.
//I know, I know, it's clearly time to replace the entire machine because one minor component has failed. Or Apple would like me to think so, at least.

The newer Apple designed batteries are supposed to get a ton more charges and last longer. (The ones built in). I haven't heard of any failures with those yet. The old Li-Ons have nothing to do with Apple or Dell or Acer... it's just LiOn tech.

And a whole lot of fail by everyone that didn't read the article. It's not talking about a 20 year charge, it's talking about fixing the problem that current LiOns have in that they can only sustain a fixed number of charges.

darkscout: And a whole lot of fail by everyone that didn't read the article. It's not talking about a 20 year charge,

I said that about three hours ago, didn't you read the thread?? :P

Why am I thinking more capacitors and less battery?

"My God, its full of bars."

I protest the idea of lithium ion batteries that last 20 years...

Right now the pace of technology is driven by the expectation that the consumer will be back in the marketplace for a new gadget of a similar nature in 18-24 months because the battery conked out.

Competition continues amongst gadgets because they know that the consumer they didn't get today will be coming back in a year or two.

This forced retirement is more prominent than any idea of designed obsolescence. You can run a desktop computer for a decade without any upgrades, but that laptop is going to be junk inside 3 years because it won't be worth the battery. That cellphone will need a $80 battery around the time the phone company lets you upgrade. Apple will have a new shiny object for you to buy around the time your current one, which you can't imagine going without, goes tits up on a bad battery.

Face it, no one is going to want to bring this to consumers. The short life of a battery covers any other lifespan design sins and allows the company to sell you something new.

/Going back to winding my mechanical watch.
//Seriously (new window)

CavalierEternal: In a related story, expect the price of a pack of AA Batteries to hover somewhere around $850.

for some of the people i've worked with, this isn't a big deal when the equipment sells for 100k

Loren: No. We know how to make lights like that ancient one but nobody's going to do so. It's a horrible deal. The light has lasted so long because it runs cool--but that means it produces less light and much less efficiently.

And yet none of those long-life bulbs will last as long, even though we've made blah, blah, blah strides in efficiency and all that crap. The point is nobody wants to make a cheap bulb that lasts a long time because they don't have to. The firehouse bulb wasn't some super special lightbulb that was a one-off. It came from a factory just like thousands of other bulbs. We figured it out a century ago but we don't give a shiat about producing the best product because it's more profitable to produce things that are designed to break.

Loren: There's also the general problem that in general people won't pay the costs of making things last longer.

i think that's what really has happened, too many people are trying to pinch pennies on purchase, as opposed to over the life of the product.

I used to work for a company like that, they'd rather save 4 bucks on something and replace it every few months, as opposed to buying something that runs for years

the same idiots allowed rig hands to abuse forklifts, and equipment, and then never bothered to notice they could have replaced the things several times over for the repair bills that were caused

CavalierEternal: In a related story, expect the price of a pack of AA Batteries to hover somewhere around $850.

you know, it's not so bad for the Duracells and the AA batteries of the world to have to replace them every once in a while, but it's fark ass annoying dealing with laptop batteries. And if we're going electric cars, then it'd be REALLY annoying to have those batteries die early as well, I would be freaking pissed if I have to pay $20,000+ for a new battery after only 3-5 years of use.

Loren: I don't think we will ever see AA lithium-ion batteries. The problem is that lithium ion batteries require electronics in the battery pack for safety--thus you only see them in battery packs, not individual batteries.

Well, to be fair, only SAFE Li-ion batteries require an onboard charging throttle. I'm sure China wouldn't have any moral objections to flooding the market with AA's that go into thermal overload after 6 minutes of charging if they could do so at a reasonable profit.

If they can make better batteries then there will be better batteries, all conspiracy dorks' arguments aside.
More efficient light "bulbs" - CFLs & LEDs - are already being mandated by the government, and polluting technologies like batteries will follow, when they become available, even if the current manufacturers of batteries object. If they are Japanese imports, then suck it, Duracell, you should have been paying attention.
Case in point: efficient, long lasting automobiles.

Stibium: Loren: No. We know how to make lights like that ancient one but nobody's going to do so. It's a horrible deal. The light has lasted so long because it runs cool--but that means it produces less light and much less efficiently.

And yet none of those long-life bulbs will last as long, even though we've made blah, blah, blah strides in efficiency and all that crap. The point is nobody wants to make a cheap bulb that lasts a long time because they don't have to. The firehouse bulb wasn't some super special lightbulb that was a one-off. It came from a factory just like thousands of other bulbs. We figured it out a century ago but we don't give a shiat about producing the best product because it's more profitable to produce things that are designed to break.

Are you dumb or something? The reason it lasted so long is the low wattage.

Yes that's right, you're dumb (new window)

Stibium: Loren: No. We know how to make lights like that ancient one but nobody's going to do so. It's a horrible deal. The light has lasted so long because it runs cool--but that means it produces less light and much less efficiently.

And yet none of those long-life bulbs will last as long, even though we've made blah, blah, blah strides in efficiency and all that crap. The point is nobody wants to make a cheap bulb that lasts a long time because they don't have to. The firehouse bulb wasn't some super special lightbulb that was a one-off. It came from a factory just like thousands of other bulbs. We figured it out a century ago but we don't give a shiat about producing the best product because it's more profitable to produce things that are designed to break.

You keep bring up that light, have you seen it? That is like a rapist wet dream. Imagine all the street lights with those, it doesn't give much light off at all. It is literally less powerful in terms of light then my little sisters night light.

Loren: I don't think we will ever see AA lithium-ion batteries. The problem is that lithium ion batteries require electronics in the battery pack for safety--thus you only see them in battery packs, not individual batteries.

Dealextreme.com (new window) has a bunch of rechargeable single-cell lithium batteries. They're used in high-power lasers and flashlights.

kidsizedcoffin: Why am I thinking more capacitors and less battery?

This. And with the development of nanotube technology the surface area can be significantly increased without expanding the plates beyond a portable size. This is where the future of energy storage is.

Correction: the source webpage is for capacitors, not batteries. Someone did a poor job of translating the Japanese page.


English translation here.