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(Oregon Live)   Tenured Econ Prof confronts FBI Informant for creating a cabal of students on campus oriented toward violence. Professor is suspended with pay and everybody lawyers up. Then things get weird   (oregonlive.com) divider line 276
    More: Weird, Mr. Gibbs, FBI, Ian Fleming, East Germany, The Oregonian, international organizations, campus police, KSM  
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17892 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Feb 2010 at 10:57 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-02-06 06:29:02 PM  
I don't know about FBI informant but something was up with that guy. maybe dominionist or terrorist trying to recruit from impressionable youth.
 
2010-02-06 07:31:20 PM  
That's disturbing.

From the sound of it, the prof mishandled the situation dreadfully. If he was concerned for students' (or his own) safety, he should have gone to the cops.

If the student was really bringing concealed firearms to campus and talking to others about Molotov cocktails and automatic weapons, then he was a legitimate threat. Even if it was just "tough guy" BS, it merits investigation.

I doubt that the student was an FBI informant; probably just some crazy, but crazies are dangerous.
 
2010-02-06 08:25:01 PM  
FloydA: That's disturbing.

From the sound of it, the prof mishandled the situation dreadfully. If he was concerned for students' (or his own) safety, he should have gone to the cops.

If the student was really bringing concealed firearms to campus and talking to others about Molotov cocktails and automatic weapons, then he was a legitimate threat. Even if it was just "tough guy" BS, it merits investigation.

I doubt that the student was an FBI informant; probably just some crazy, but crazies are dangerous.


There were many cases in the 60s of the FBI and local police departments sending in undercover agents to infiltrate student groups and try to influence them to commit acts of violence so they could be arrested. If the professor truly believed the student was an undercover agent then going through the proper chain of command would have been useless..... by going public in front of a large group of people he virtually assured that the guy's cover was blown.

Sure, he might have harmed his career if he's proved wrong but he did it in a non-violent way and no one will suffer except himself. Wish we had more people who were willing to make self-sacrfices for personal freedom and liberty.
 
2010-02-06 08:35:51 PM  
I wonder what led the professor to believe that the guy was an FBI informant in the first place?
 
2010-02-06 08:51:08 PM  
Arthur Jumbles:

There were many cases in the 60s of the FBI and local police departments sending in undercover agents to infiltrate student groups and try to influence them to commit acts of violence so they could be arrested.



There were, and I'm reasonably sure that the prof was thinking about COINTELPRO agents provocateur. I just am skeptical that he's correct. From the article, the student sounds far less discrete than I expect an agent provocateur would have to be.

A good agent doesn't show his weapon and start blathering about bomb-making to random classmates without first figuring out their sympathies. That sounds more like the actions of a nut case to me.

If the professor truly believed the student was an undercover agent then going through the proper chain of command would have been useless..... by going public in front of a large group of people he virtually assured that the guy's cover was blown.


Fair point. I don't know enough about Portland PD to know for sure. I've heard some unpleasant things, but nothing that would suggest they would ignore a likely threat to public safety.



Sure, he might have harmed his career if he's proved wrong but he did it in a non-violent way and no one will suffer except himself. Wish we had more people who were willing to make self-sacrfices for personal freedom and liberty.

Agreed.
 
2010-02-06 08:53:17 PM  
FloydA: There were, and I'm reasonably sure that the prof was thinking about COINTELPRO agents provocateur. I just am skeptical that he's correct. From the article, the student sounds far less discrete than I expect an agent provocateur would have to be.

i'm not so sure. from what I've heard from the more vocal radicals, they said that they could almost always tell who the FBI infiltrators were because they were the guys always pushing to blow shiat up.
 
2010-02-06 08:59:28 PM  
Weaver95:

i'm not so sure. from what I've heard from the more vocal radicals, they said that they could almost always tell who the FBI infiltrators were because they were the guys always pushing to blow shiat up.


Good point. That might answer your earlier question about what made the prof think the student was FBI.


/Full disclosure, I have friends and relatives that work there, so my opinions may be biased.
 
2010-02-06 09:01:18 PM  
FloydA: Fair point. I don't know enough about Portland PD to know for sure. I've heard some unpleasant things, but nothing that would suggest they would ignore a likely threat to public safety.

It depends on the appearance of the person. A racial minority? No farking way. A hippy/bum looking white guy? No way. A drunk? Nope.
But a clean-cut business-like white man? You could get away with raping a boy in that town.

/only applicable to the police
//the city council and many civic organizations are far less trusting of a clean-cut white guy, and more trusting of the other aforementioned groups
 
2010-02-06 09:02:24 PM  
Zach Bucharest? Google seems to indicate he doesn't get on the internet much.

Very weird.
 
2010-02-06 09:04:39 PM  
FloydA: Good point. That might answer your earlier question about what made the prof think the student was FBI.

I thought about that, but there is always the possibility of a few real nutballs out there who really ARE trying to form an army of fellow loonies.
 
2010-02-06 09:09:39 PM  
Weaver95: but there is always the possibility of a few real nutballs out there who really ARE trying to form an army of fellow loonies.

Dominionists
 
2010-02-06 09:21:23 PM  
Weaver95:

I thought about that, but there is always the possibility of a few real nutballs out there who really ARE trying to form an army of fellow loonies.


Yep. There are dominionists, as sithon mentioned, and I recall that Portland had a pretty substantial neo-NAZI skinhead population at one time- not sure how active that still is.

It could be (assuming the student really did what he's accused of doing) that he's a member of any one of those.

I'm just speculating, because I don't know that prof, but if he's of the Baby Boom generation, he might just have jumped to the conclusion that any student waving guns and talking about bombs must be an undercover Feeb because "that's how it was back in the 60s," as you mentioned.

I don't know. The article is understandably sparse on details, so I guess I'll have to wait until I hear more about the case before I come to a conclusion.
 
2010-02-06 09:28:01 PM  
So, is the 30-year-old student an FBI informant or what?
 
2010-02-06 09:30:01 PM  
Fellows: So, is the 30-year-old student an FBI informant or what?

we'll probably never know for sure.
 
2010-02-06 11:04:46 PM  
Well it IS Portland State U. If there ever was a liberal version of the absurdity and plain good old fashioned crazy that teabaggers embody, PSU would fit the bill like a glove.
 
2010-02-06 11:05:15 PM  
Weaver95: Fellows: So, is the 30-year-old student an FBI informant or what?

we'll probably never know for sure.


You are right. I just don't know why the FBI would want to teach economics majors how to make explosives. There may be a reason, but I don't see it.

/The prof seems to have had a bad experience in East Germany that may make him unlikely to go to the police
//The student seems to have some dangerous hobbies for an economist
 
2010-02-06 11:05:46 PM  
What kind of retard needs to be taught how to make a molotov cocktail anyway?
 
2010-02-06 11:07:02 PM  
sithon: I don't know about FBI informant but something was up with that guy. maybe dominionist or terrorist trying to recruit from impressionable youth.

Much more likely: dumb bastard who likes guns too much and blowing shiat up.
 
2010-02-06 11:10:41 PM  
Can I find the things he was "teaching" them on the internet? (Not the teacher..."the informant")

Surely doing a google search I can find pretty solid instructions on how to make a fire bomb...or I could probably figure it out on my own too.

Also, is it really that wild that someone would know someone who had access to guns?

This teacher sounds like he let his imagination get away from him.

Of course there is the possibility he was right too, but not likely considering how open the student apparently was in regards to what he was telling people.
 
2010-02-06 11:10:53 PM  
Even if the guy was an informant, calling him out in the middle of class was not the way to go. Both for his own dignity and for the possibility that his assumption could be very wrong.

/Has a brother attending PSU
//Might ask him if he's heard anything about this
 
2010-02-06 11:12:12 PM  
sithon: I don't know about FBI informant but something was up with that guy. maybe dominionist or terrorist trying to recruit from impressionable youth.

that or pot user who was worried about being narced out
 
2010-02-06 11:12:35 PM  
Arthur Jumbles: FloydA: That's disturbing.

From the sound of it, the prof mishandled the situation dreadfully. If he was concerned for students' (or his own) safety, he should have gone to the cops.

If the student was really bringing concealed firearms to campus and talking to others about Molotov cocktails and automatic weapons, then he was a legitimate threat. Even if it was just "tough guy" BS, it merits investigation.

I doubt that the student was an FBI informant; probably just some crazy, but crazies are dangerous.

There were many cases in the 60s of the FBI and local police departments sending in undercover agents to infiltrate student groups and try to influence them to commit acts of violence so they could be arrested. If the professor truly believed the student was an undercover agent then going through the proper chain of command would have been useless..... by going public in front of a large group of people he virtually assured that the guy's cover was blown.

Sure, he might have harmed his career if he's proved wrong but he did it in a non-violent way and no one will suffer except himself. Wish we had more people who were willing to make self-sacrfices for personal freedom and liberty.


FloydA: Weaver95:

i'm not so sure. from what I've heard from the more vocal radicals, they said that they could almost always tell who the FBI infiltrators were because they were the guys always pushing to blow shiat up.

Good point. That might answer your earlier question about what made the prof think the student was FBI.


/Full disclosure, I have friends and relatives that work there, so my opinions may be biased.


You two, and this professor:
static.seekingalpha.com
 
2010-02-06 11:13:05 PM  
srhp29: Can I find the things he was "teaching" them on the internet? (Not the teacher..."the informant")

Surely doing a google search I can find pretty solid instructions on how to make a fire bomb...or I could probably figure it out on my own too.

Also, is it really that wild that someone would know someone who had access to guns?

This teacher sounds like he let his imagination get away from him.

Of course there is the possibility he was right too, but not likely considering how open the student apparently was in regards to what he was telling people.


I visited a family friend's house recently (former cop no less) and found he had a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook. Not that I have any intent on making bombs or garrotes, but it was fascinating.

I'm far too scared to look that stuff up online though, for fear of being tagged or having my ISP logged on some government database.
 
2010-02-06 11:14:38 PM  
i713.photobucket.com
 
2010-02-06 11:14:58 PM  

This part jumped out at me:

Dreier said Bucharest also offered to act as a middleman to help students buy military style rifles -- AR-15s or AK-47s -- through a gun dealer he knew in Washington and that he had access to machine guns.


Fully-automatic weapons are legal in Oregon - you can buy them at gun shops there. They are illegal in Washington - period.

Offering to help a bunch of Oregonians buy machine guns from a dealer in Washington is roughly like telling your friends who live in Las Vegas that you know of this awesome underground poker room in Utah.
 
2010-02-06 11:15:55 PM  
srhp29: Also, is it really that wild that someone would know someone who had access to guns?

This teacher sounds like he let his imagination get away from him.

Of course there is the possibility he was right too, but not likely considering how open the student apparently was in regards to what he was telling people.


Exactly. I know two guys who say this stuff all the time. Both are what one might describe as "gun enthusiasts." One has said numerous times that he can acquire illegal weapons from various sources, but in all honesty he's totally harmless.

What this sounds like is that Bucharest made a series of silly boasts to his classmates, they took him more seriously than he was perhaps worth (otoh, maybe not), and the professor did the same.
 
2010-02-06 11:16:02 PM  
Weaver95: Fellows: So, is the 30-year-old student an FBI informant or what?

we'll probably never know for sure.


I think, more then likely, the prof is batshiat crazy.
 
2010-02-06 11:16:45 PM  
Awesome. I've been waiting for this to hit Fark. My friend is in this class.
 
2010-02-06 11:17:07 PM  
7wolf: What kind of retard needs to be taught how to make a molotov cocktail anyway?

Apparently the prof complained in the past, but was ignored.

He is either a nut case or the police there is ineffective or both.


Bucharest did show off a gun on campus. Most schools prohibit this kind of thing. I'm not anti gun, but who carries a gun to class?

He caused concern to other students as well,, but they went to the prof, not the cops.

/There's a good D20 modern campaign in here somewhere.
 
2010-02-06 11:17:09 PM  
Must be something in the water because it appears there's a whole lot of crazy on that campus... was there ever a mercury spill into the water system?

Not enough info to tell, but it sounds like the student is wannabee of some kind. The type who brags about law enforcement contacts, being a Navy SEAL or CIA agent and the Professor is just an idiot. If the guy really is a violent gun nut, confronting him in class like this is really, REALLY, DUMB!

Good luck trying to figure this one out. I'm just glad I don't have to deal with any of them.
 
2010-02-06 11:18:34 PM  
Molotov Cocktails - Hardly a secret how to make em

Assualt Rifles - Legal in much of the country, easily avaible

Machine Gun - BIG RED FLAG... assuming we are talking about a real machine gun, and assuming a student doesn't have $20k+ to get one legally, there is either something going on there, or someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.
 
2010-02-06 11:18:42 PM  
Feeble attempt on the part of the PTB to create agents provocateurs?
 
2010-02-06 11:19:00 PM  
He could be FBI looking to infiltrate "eco-terrorists."
 
2010-02-06 11:19:12 PM  
So: Weird student liked to talk about bombs & guns, teach students how to make good Molotov cocktails and said he could get them AK's on the open market.

Weird prof confronts weird student in class saying student "was a killer and he had the "spirit of Cain and the spirit of Judas." Weird prof relates tales of his experience with spies in East Germany, then hands weird student "a packet to give to "his superiors."

Not so weird students say they'd been worried about weird student "for months" but didn't feel--in this post-9/11, post-VA Tech America--they should tell anyone except weird prof.

I think they ALL need their freaking heads examined!
 
2010-02-06 11:20:07 PM  
Did you guys notice that this Zach Bucharest dude is 30? And he's in some undergrad econ class?

A thirty-year-old on campus is like people repellent. Nobody has anything to do with "returning" students except for other returning students.

His handler would have to be an idiot to think a guy like that could make inroads among college radicals. I find it highly unlikely that he was working for the gov't.

That being said, if the Prof. honestly thought the guy was dangerous, he did the right thing, and I bet he's willing to live with the consequences. I hope all the kids that got him involved will be willing to take the stand in his defense.
 
2010-02-06 11:20:47 PM  
sure sounds like an agent provocateur to me
 
2010-02-06 11:21:31 PM  
Cold1s:
Bucharest did show off a gun on campus. Most schools prohibit this kind of thing. I'm not anti gun, but who carries a gun to class?

I used to. Legally.
 
2010-02-06 11:21:56 PM  
Cold1s: Apparently the prof complained in the past, but was ignored.

He didn't complain about that kid in the past, but other things. Things that the administration didn't "follow up on". Which leads me to believe the Prof is a farking nutbag, along with calling out some 30 year old "tough guy boasting" student for being an FBI informant.
 
2010-02-06 11:23:15 PM  
TheyCallThisWork: if the Prof. honestly thought the guy was dangerous

Some people "obviously believe video games are dangerous", those people are mental, like this prof.
 
2010-02-06 11:23:23 PM  
Had a roommate once who was a chronic pot smoker and once in his pot induced haze came to my room and told me that he has a secret that I should not tell anyone. He went on to say that he worked for the FBI and has samurai swords in his closet, if I was ever to mention of this I would be beheaded.

All of his post pot hazes were entertaining.
 
2010-02-06 11:23:32 PM  
TheyCallThisWork: Did you guys notice that this Zach Bucharest dude is 30? And he's in some undergrad econ class?

A thirty-year-old on campus is like people repellent. Nobody has anything to do with "returning" students except for other returning students.

His handler would have to be an idiot to think a guy like that could make inroads among college radicals. I find it highly unlikely that he was working for the gov't.

That being said, if the Prof. honestly thought the guy was dangerous, he did the right thing, and I bet he's willing to live with the consequences. I hope all the kids that got him involved will be willing to take the stand in his defense.


Eh, it's not that unusual. Lotta older folks going back to school, especially with the recession.

A 30-year-old also might seem like he has better connections or knowledge of where to acquire guns.
 
2010-02-06 11:24:31 PM  
Fully automatic weapons are not legal in Multinomah county though. Well they are, but the Sheriff is against them

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2002/04/01/story4.html
 
2010-02-06 11:26:02 PM  
Zach Bucharest - totally his real name.
 
2010-02-06 11:26:17 PM  
Sure sounds like paranoia to me.
 
2010-02-06 11:26:36 PM  
We need to find out what was in the packet!!! Seriously.
 
2010-02-06 11:27:06 PM  
This has student-professor gay relationship written all over it.
 
2010-02-06 11:28:11 PM  
roflmaonow: Had a roommate once who was a chronic pot smoker and once in his pot induced haze came to my room and told me that he has a secret that I should not tell anyone. He went on to say that he worked for the FBI and has samurai swords in his closet, if I was ever to mention of this I would be beheaded.

All of his post pot hazes were entertaining.


That doesn't sound like pot. Are you an agent provocateur too?
 
2010-02-06 11:28:12 PM  
Cold1s: Most schools prohibit this kind of thing. I'm not anti gun, but who carries a gun to class?

Seung-Hui Cho?
 
2010-02-06 11:28:31 PM  
Weaver95: i'm not so sure. from what I've heard from the more vocal radicals, they said that they could almost always tell who the FBI infiltrators were because they were the guys always pushing to blow shiat up.

I've known several pretty hardcore anti-war folk who were in the movement, as they say. I've also heard this several times.

The student's ties to campus police may have something to do with the suspicions, maybe.

Satanic_Hamster: I think, more then likely, the prof is batshiat crazy.

or that could very well be true. hard tellin
 
2010-02-06 11:29:34 PM  
I'd like to know what was in the envelope and if it will be used in court as evidence.
 
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