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(News.com.au)   Employers refuse to hire Generation Y workers because they lack a work ethic and spend too much time talking to frien--- Hold on, I have to take this   (news.com.au ) divider line 468
    More: Obvious, Generation Y, Courier-Mail, Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Queensland, common courtesy, Kristy-Lee Johnston, Footprint Recruitment, Nick Behrens  
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16063 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Feb 2010 at 6:52 AM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-02-06 02:16:05 PM  

Anodos: morgantx: Anodos: Except, ignoring the Mexico example, a lot of workers AREN'T willing to do just what you describe, but instead pitch a fit about how their jobs are being stolen and try to get the UAW to protect their gold-plated, un-tied-to-productivity wages and benefits to stay around. People AREN'T moving around looking for work in this recent round of unemployment, not like in the '30s, not like in almost any other time.

Or maybe they are, and it's being COMPLETELY ignored in the press coverage of the unemployment situation, but I somehow doubt that would be ignored. Americans have very generally become lazy and unwilling to experience discomfort, even if it means that they could potentially re-establish themselves with a better quality of life, because god forbid they have to go where the work is.

And you make an excellent point. We're looking at relocating ourselves this summer. It's frightening. Our parents think we're completely nuts, relocating with four children. But we live in a (very) small city. There's very little opportunity for advancement here for either of us, and I can't find work here that will pay me what I'm worth. I'm an admin with extensive government experience. Employers who want that kind of background will pay well for it (I can usually get $20 an hour, more or less.). Around here, I'm competing with "admins" who can't type, know nothing about anything, and are lazy, shiftless ne'er-do-wells. But they're hired to file, answer phones, type an occassional memo, and make coffee. Nobody's going to pay me $20 an hour to fill a job that can be equally well-done for $8 an hour.

So we have to move. As I said, our parents think we're both completely nuts, but the fact is that if we stay here, we're going to be stuck in the exact same position indefinitely. We have to take a risk. And in the long run, I know that we'll survive. One way or another, we'll be okay. We may not be as comfortable as our parents want us to be. We may not have a nice four-bedroom house in the suburbs and a new minivan, but we'll survive like we always do, and if the gamble pays off, maybe we'll even do better than just surviving.

We can stay here and continue to spin our wheels. Or we can go somewhere else and either a)spin our wheels, or b)get ahead.

And that's awesome, and commendable, that you are willing to take risk for a potential greater reward. But it's really, really troubling that others are not, and are instead clamoring for the government to force companies to stay put regionally within the US (again, I'm not talking about outsourcing to foreign countries.) Instead of hearing about people moving from the devastated areas with nice climates (CA, AZ, FL, NV, etc) or from Michigan, you hear about people whining about the lack of jobs in their area, the ebul korperayshuns, and how they need more unemployment insurance.

It's a normal part of human life to have to move around, whether within a society/nation/state/region, in search of work and resources befitting ability and experience; as long as there has been agriculture and civilization, there has been physical population movement and displacement both within and without in large societies. Just because it's not explicitly "immigration" or "emigration" and thus not given major media coverage doesn't make it any less real as a historical phenomenon.


Me and my husband left Pittsburgh for L.A. I was accepted into graduate school and we both felt like it was a good move, a chance to improve ourselves career-wise. In this regard, it was a good move because Hubby has remained employed and there are job openings in my field. There is nothing in Pittsburgh for us, although it is sooooo much cheaper to live in.
 
2010-02-06 02:16:15 PM  
My biggest gripe with boomers is that some of them refuse to learn how to use modern technology and chalk up their lack of trying and making an honest effort at understanding something as simple as how to open up MS Word from quick launch instead of from the destop when they work on a different computer to being from a "non-technical generation".

Like you boomers keep saying, you have to adapt and make yourself appear to be useful no matter the task.
 
2010-02-06 02:16:27 PM  

jso2897: nygenxer:Consider the size of retiring baby boomer demographic (huge; biggest ever) versus GenX demographic (tiny). So very few positions are actually needed to employ the GenXers who are turning 40 and need to be in the upper echelon of management so they can take over when the boomers finally retire or die, but too often that's not the case at all. shiat, just for incompetence the damn boomers should be replaced.



If they aren't competent, they will be. If you are thinking that all the old farts are being kept on because they unilaterally decided to stay - don't think it. Companies don't retain people because they want a job. If you can't take some old fart's job - it's most likely because he can do it better than you can.



The banks have been absolutely spastic that they will lose the "talent" of the cocksuckers who crashed the system without outfarkingrageous bonuses and that same "shiat floats to the top" mentality extends to other industries. The truth is the turnover at the top is NOT what it needs to be - this goes for D.C. as well.

I agree that I cannot do a job as well as someone with 30 years of experience can which is why I wrote, "the GenXers who are turning 40 and need to be in the upper echelon of management so they can take over when the boomers finally retire or die." Even people living in the farking Dark Ages knew the importance of mentoring and apprenticeship. People given responsibility without earning it fail miserably (case in point: George W. Bush).

Societies that invest in young people are not guaranteed long-term success, but societies that don't invest in its young people are guaranteed to fail. America stopped supporting young people in the 1970s shiatstorm is finally here.

I'm giddy as fark will the level of solidarity amongst GenX, Y and millennials. We KNOW you boomers are full of shiat, so stop lying already.
 
2010-02-06 02:20:08 PM  

nygenxer: People given responsibility without earning it fail miserably (case in point: George W. Bush and Barack Obama).


/FTF Accuracy (going by your same criteria)
 
2010-02-06 02:22:53 PM  

nygenxer: Societies that invest in young people are not guaranteed long-term success, but societies that don't invest in its young people are guaranteed to fail. America stopped supporting young people in the 1970s shiatstorm is finally here.


whatever you say, evil conservative man!
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will020410.php3
 
2010-02-06 02:25:51 PM  

nygenxer: jso2897: nygenxer:Consider the size of retiring baby boomer demographic (huge; biggest ever) versus GenX demographic (tiny). So very few positions are actually needed to employ the GenXers who are turning 40 and need to be in the upper echelon of management so they can take over when the boomers finally retire or die, but too often that's not the case at all. shiat, just for incompetence the damn boomers should be replaced.



If they aren't competent, they will be. If you are thinking that all the old farts are being kept on because they unilaterally decided to stay - don't think it. Companies don't retain people because they want a job. If you can't take some old fart's job - it's most likely because he can do it better than you can.


The banks have been absolutely spastic that they will lose the "talent" of the cocksuckers who crashed the system without outfarkingrageous bonuses and that same "shiat floats to the top" mentality extends to other industries. The truth is the turnover at the top is NOT what it needs to be - this goes for D.C. as well.

I agree that I cannot do a job as well as someone with 30 years of experience can which is why I wrote, "the GenXers who are turning 40 and need to be in the upper echelon of management so they can take over when the boomers finally retire or die." Even people living in the farking Dark Ages knew the importance of mentoring and apprenticeship. People given responsibility without earning it fail miserably (case in point: George W. Bush).

Societies that invest in young people are not guaranteed long-term success, but societies that don't invest in its young people are guaranteed to fail. America stopped supporting young people in the 1970s shiatstorm is finally here.

I'm giddy as fark will the level of solidarity amongst GenX, Y and millennials. We KNOW you boomers are full of shiat, so stop lying already.


Again - you appear to have read maybe one of my posts - and you have no idea where I am really coming from. And frankly, we were talking about productive workers - not CEOs. They are chosen on the basis of corporate nepotism, they all sit on the boards of each others companies, and appoint each other to corporate offices. there are plenty of younger CEOs who get in on the scam too - but that has nothing to do with working folk like you or me.
An, I repeat - the"solidarity" of hostility toward your generation is media-fostered paranoia - fostered for the benefit of those who would exploit you.
If you really care what I think about these issue, read the thread and read what I have to say, instead of putting false words and sentiments in my mouth.
 
2010-02-06 02:27:13 PM  
I'm on the cusp of Baby-Boom and GenX (45), and I have an increasing feeling of dread that I'll be facing Age Discrimination soon next time I have to look for a job.

On the up side, I look 35.
 
2010-02-06 02:27:56 PM  
We have old guys at work who do next to nothing and feel entitled to based on experience. They do the minimum waiting on retirement.

We have young guys at work who do next to nothing and feel entitled to based on pay. They do the minimum waiting on some old guy's retirement.

Same as it ever was.
 
Juc
2010-02-06 02:28:06 PM  
Isn't this a repeat of a news report from every single generation in the past?
 
2010-02-06 02:28:22 PM  

proteus_b: nygenxer: Societies that invest in young people are not guaranteed long-term success, but societies that don't invest in its young people are guaranteed to fail. America stopped supporting young people in the 1970s shiatstorm is finally here.

whatever you say, evil conservative man!
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/will020410.php3


Why would you link there for a George Will column, first of all, and second of all, how is what he's saying wrong, in general principle? Senescent societies that only benefit the aging and old, not being cared for by their specific children, but by taxation-generated largesse of children they may have spent no effort, money, or time raising, are incredibly unsustainable and will almost definitely be eclipsed by societies that consider the care of the nonproductive elderly to be secondary to creating an environment that values the younger generations.

Also, I disagree with that article that China is "doing it right" just because they seem to have less intrinsic safety net for old people. There's so many other things that they are doing wrong that may and likely will handicap them in the future, it's staggering.
 
2010-02-06 02:31:03 PM  
I'm not entitled - I don't expect to see social security or medicare. I do expect to pay into it, however. I don't expect any future employers to find me valuable beyond what I can do for them in the short term.

Chiming in on the "twice the productivity...etc", it very true that we work faster than you would expect on projects given to us that require very little thought. It is our responsibility to seek out more work when we run out... however, it is also our responsibility to seek out that work on our own and sometimes it doesn't exist. The best skill to learn as an employee is to appear busy and never make waves interoffice. You get flack from your peers for not ripping on the boss once in awhile, but it pays off in the end.
 
2010-02-06 02:32:05 PM  

The Southern Dandy: I'm on the cusp of Baby-Boom and GenX (45), and I have an increasing feeling of dread that I'll be facing Age Discrimination soon next time I have to look for a job.

On the up side, I look 35.


Well, that's what the media keeps putting out. Older people are encouraged to distrust and dislike the young, and blame them for everything - and vice versa.
Ask yourself: Who owns the media? Would they benefit from a united working class, or one divided against itself?
Follow the money.
 
2010-02-06 02:32:32 PM  
I haven't read all the comments, but I'm going to toss in my two cents-I work in an office where the majority of workers are under the age of 30, or at least 35. Top management is older, but many in the lower ranks are Gen X or iGen or whatever the hell you want to call us. We have a few that could use some guidance (esp. in the dress code area, but really, that's their manager's fault for not addressing that properly), but for the most part, everyone cares about the job and works hard. The pay could be better, as could promotion opportunities, but for the most part we do a damn good job. Even better, we occasionally hear the same from our clients, many of whom are our parent's age. While I certainly understand that some members of my generation are lazy and entitled, not all of us are, and the generalizations are ridiculous. If you have an employee that is goofing off, not being professional, etc., then that is your problem to fix. Get them into shape, or fire them, and stop complaining.

/am 25, been in management for a couple of years
//oversee an employee in my age range, it's not easy to discuss things that need to be changed, but it needs to be done
 
2010-02-06 02:38:57 PM  

Anodos: People AREN'T moving around looking for work in this recent round of unemployment, not like in the '30s, not like in almost any other time.


Because with the internet I can apply to a job across the nation without physically being there, now I face disadvantages in doing so compared to someone who is local, but I face much higher costs for moving around constantly.
 
2010-02-06 02:41:06 PM  

sketch318: I haven't read all the comments, but I'm going to toss in my two cents-I work in an office where the majority of workers are under the age of 30, or at least 35. Top management is older, but many in the lower ranks are Gen X or iGen or whatever the hell you want to call us. We have a few that could use some guidance (esp. in the dress code area, but really, that's their manager's fault for not addressing that properly), but for the most part, everyone cares about the job and works hard. The pay could be better, as could promotion opportunities, but for the most part we do a damn good job. Even better, we occasionally hear the same from our clients, many of whom are our parent's age. While I certainly understand that some members of my generation are lazy and entitled, not all of us are, and the generalizations are ridiculous. If you have an employee that is goofing off, not being professional, etc., then that is your problem to fix. Get them into shape, or fire them, and stop complaining.

/am 25, been in management for a couple of years
//oversee an employee in my age range, it's not easy to discuss things that need to be changed, but it needs to be done


This - at the risk (no, with the certainty) of repeating myself - if you are consistently unable to get good work from your employees, young, old, or in between - you are a shiatty boss.
 
2010-02-06 02:45:08 PM  
I'm between generations (Born in '86)... I have two jobs... one of which I LOVE, the other in retail. I work 60 hours a week, well under poverty levels. I went to a liberal arts college and actually work in my field. I've been working since I was 16-- I tried to get a job at 14 and 15 and failed. I worked A LOT for free before finding a job that pays me. My parents were hippies, and I actually do not hold a grudge against them. They've done so much to help me in my life, that I hope I can help them as well as they have helped my grandparents in old age. Part of the job I love entails teaching, and I love working with people younger than me as well as people who are older.

In conclusion, I would like for people to stop labeling my generation as slackers. I know brilliant people who cannot find jobs through no fault of their own. They could run circles around some people who do have jobs, they work hard for little-to-no-pay on creative projects and love what they do.

the job I love might make me full time and salaried soon-- so I'm hoping this poverty thing is temporary. My boss is trying to get it approved by her bosses.

Also, as someone who teaches technology courses to a lot of people who are 50+ please stop underestimating yourself.
 
2010-02-06 02:47:20 PM  

ThematicDevice: That's rich, seriously. NAFTA had next to no impact on employment, whats more all of the 'trade barriers' on the US side were tiny and insignificant.


I was going to correct you, but morgantx did it better than I ever could. I'd sponsor him for TF if he wasn't there already.
 
2010-02-06 02:48:22 PM  
While Generation X destroyed the whole economy with their uselessness, the Baby boomers did the best to destroy the whole world and screwed up even that and the ww2 generation. Their parents were quick to announce them to be the most useless generation ever born who didn't have the steel for surviving... and 5000 years ago when Assyrians were biatching about the useless latest generation.

Every generation is just as useless and pathetic as the one before it. Get over it old man.

/Falls in generation x.
 
2010-02-06 02:52:40 PM  
"Loyalty" in employment is a myth.

Workers are paid just enough to keep them from quitting, and they work just hard enough to keep from getting fired. Of course your employer is using you, just like you are using them.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is delusional.
 
2010-02-06 02:53:38 PM  
anodos,

i also moved abroad to find work. what i hope is that we won't install some massive economy slaying social programs such as college education for any and all (regardless of society's need/ability), free gov't health care, free housing and higher taxes. otherwise i won't want to go back. but i would still prefer the socialist states of america to the chinese model.
 
2010-02-06 02:54:45 PM  
Morgantx, was already loving ya for your arguments before you mentioned teh professional nekkidness. Very cool.
 
2010-02-06 02:55:29 PM  
30daysout.files.wordpress.com
/Whatever you do, don't take the purple acid.
//jus' sayin'
 
2010-02-06 02:55:32 PM  
As a member of Generation Y I'm really getting a kick, etc.

I was given my own, actual direct report last year. I find it to be completely absurd at a level that involves the universe actually *breaking* that I'm someone's boss, and I make sure that I act like the anti-boss. I made it clear on day 1 that as long as she comes in "around on time" and finishes her work on or before schedule, I don't really give a crap if I walk by her desk and see Farmville or some shiat on the screen. My overall mentality is that work is important, but nobody's going to die because of a small bug or two on our website.

It's been about a year now, no complaints and her first employee review is going to be very awesome.
 
2010-02-06 02:58:27 PM  

proteus_b: anodos,

i also moved abroad to find work. what i hope is that we won't install some massive economy slaying social programs such as college education for any and all (regardless of society's need/ability), free gov't health care, free housing and higher taxes. otherwise i won't want to go back. but i would still prefer the socialist states of america to the chinese model.


Yeah and those damn socialist roads, police and fire departments. I prefer to hire my own protection and pave my own roads thanks.
 
2010-02-06 03:01:15 PM  

Done: Here's what it seems to me is the most important thing that younger workers don't understand: That doing your job does not get you ahead. Doing your job only prevents you from being fired. Going above and beyond is what gets you ahead. It also seems as though people used to work really hard in order to make more money, and today people will only work hard if given more money.


But here is the paradox:

Why should you go "above and beyond" for someone who treats you like garbage? I grew up trying to please someone who could never be pleased. It doesn't work. The only thing it does is wear you down and stress you out. Stress then leads to other problems, especially outside of work.
 
2010-02-06 03:01:37 PM  

cards fan by association: pave my own roads thanks.


You know if you buy a large enough American-made SUV, not only will the accelerator not stick, but you'll be able to drive anywhere, road or no road. And each added pound of weight and one fewer mpg it gets, the safer you and your family will be.

Just remember who runs bartertown.
 
2010-02-06 03:03:59 PM  

cards fan by association: Yeah and those damn socialist roads, police and fire departments


There's a big difference between the services that proteus describes and that you describe in economic terms.
 
2010-02-06 03:08:10 PM  
As an unemployed gen-X'er, I'd like to take this opportunity to play the world's smallest violin, only I had to pawn it to make rent this month.
 
2010-02-06 03:09:02 PM  

Toots McGee: There's plenty of people out there better qualified than you at your job, your employer just hasn't found them yet. It's never a good idea to give them a reason to start looking.


Lordy, how I wished that this was true in my trade. There ARE jobs that are entirely specialized that take time to learn. I used to take fresh college graduates and have to train them in what I did. IF you were sharp, you could pick up about 80% of what made you useful in about a year. Full qualifications took about 5, simply the nature of the business.

My clients were always pushing deadlines saying dumbass stuff like "Well, you just need to hire more resources". How do you explain that unlike lawyers or MBA's, we could not put out an advert and get 12 on line applications in an hour.

My associates understood mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, structural engineering, HVAC, Refrigeration, Steam process, Water treatment and a host of other stuff.

Takes an eye for detail and the ability to carry more than one idea in your head at the same time, plus think in 3 dimensions.

/loved the end product
//hated the process
///happily retired
 
2010-02-06 03:11:39 PM  

disgustip8ed:

This is one of the many reasons I'm a fireman.
[...] But I have almost zero stress,


www.twittfr.com
 
2010-02-06 03:11:52 PM  
Anodos:

That, of course with a HUGE dose of predictive salt that also failed to predict this downfall of our economy.
 
2010-02-06 03:15:57 PM  

sexy-fetus: Sorry jobs aren't what they used to be.

My father is a great steel detailer. Early in his career he managed to find a nice way to make shop drawings that cut his time in half, but also made the manufacturing easier. For this he was rewarded with a fancy new job title and a raise.

Now I'm in the workforce. From everything my dad has taught me I know I'll be rewarded for hard work and ingenuity. A few years ago I got a job for a vinyl fence company. I was a lone guy working in a corner of the shop making the gates. Not much to do and I had time to experiment. I figured out a way to make gates that our 300 lb shop manager could hang on. The sales guys took full advantage of this and sold a lot of product with the "Strongest gates in the state" Work picked up, gates moved into a building of their own and another guy was hired to work with me. I was extremely proud of myself and when talk was going around about needed to hire more gate employees I figured it was time to ask for that evil thing "A RAISE". Talked to the owner and explained that I was the gate shop manager, in fact if not title, and that I felt my pay should reflect that. Explained that it was what I had created that put myself in this position. Well he took it to heart. The next week we met out new manager, some old fark with no talent other than randomly yelling at people. I was however offered a kingly raise of an additional 35 cents an hour. I quit and took all of my notes with me.
I will NEVER do that for a company again.


Does your former employer own the patent to your fence design or do you? You could patent it and take your old employer to the cleaners. I know a lot of pharma and technology firms own whatever an employee invents while employed, but I don't think a fence company would have that in their employment contract.
 
2010-02-06 03:16:33 PM  

jso2897: The point of life is to be happy survive long enough to produce viable offspring.

 
2010-02-06 03:19:29 PM  

cards fan by association: Anodos:

That, of course with a HUGE dose of predictive salt that also failed to predict this downfall of our economy.


Wait... is that responding to the difference between public goods like national highways (as allowed for in the Constituion as "post roads" in form if not exact designation) and police departments that provide the protection of property (also one of the explicit rights outlined in the Declaration of Independence and referenced in the Constitution) vs. housing, education, and health care?
 
2010-02-06 03:22:44 PM  

Anodos: cards fan by association: Anodos:

That, of course with a HUGE dose of predictive salt that also failed to predict this downfall of our economy.

Wait... is that responding to the difference between public goods like national highways (as allowed for in the Constituion as "post roads" in form if not exact designation) and police departments that provide the protection of property (also one of the explicit rights outlined in the Declaration of Independence and referenced in the Constitution) vs. housing, education, and health care?


Wait.. so you're saying that the right to protecting your health is not comparable to protecting your life (police, fire)? Those documents were written long ago and are great templates, the world changes, get over it.
 
2010-02-06 03:25:15 PM  

cards fan by association: right to protecting your health


The right to not have another person take your life, the implied "right to life" of Locke and the Declaration of Independence, etc, differs from the right to protection from all negative circumstances affecting your health. You have the right to the protection of the property needed to exchange for healthcare, not the right to the care itself.
 
2010-02-06 03:27:32 PM  
Anodos, talk about entitled - making a few assumptions, good thing you are fortunate to have had and always will have health insurance, a warm home, and your education which allows you to think analytically.

Poor people don't deserve those things.
 
2010-02-06 03:29:40 PM  
I spent 3 years of my life in management at McDonald's corporation, both in a store and in the district office. Here are my observations:

1) Younger employees DO spend more time farking around than older ones. On the other hand, they usually work quicker, master new concepts quicker, and complete more tasks more efficiently than older counterparts, and usually for half the pay.

2) Older employees fark off a hell of a lot, they just haven't mastered the internet or other personal technology. Instead, they take 4 bathroom breaks every hour and spend 5 minutes of each chatting with a buddy whose desk they just happened to walk past.

3) Gen Y employees know how to multitask. Any IT admins in here, try monitoring exactly what your Gen Y employees are doing. Sure they're on fark and Digg and Facebook and have two IMs open, but they're also working, and probably at the same or better rate than they would be if you locked down their machines.
 
2010-02-06 03:34:16 PM  

Anodos: cards fan by association: right to protecting your health

The right to not have another person take your life, the implied "right to life" of Locke and the Declaration of Independence, etc, differs from the right to protection from all negative circumstances affecting your health. You have the right to the protection of the property needed to exchange for healthcare, not the right to the care itself.


You are explaining a document that is hundreds of years old. Did health care cost this much when it was written? There's something in the Declaration that says something about all people are created equal too... apparently that doesn't apply to people with pre existing conditions.
 
2010-02-06 03:35:06 PM  
what are these rights? you have the right to life, liberty (possibility of owning property). that's it.

i got a free education out of the u.s. but i'm reluctant to think that we should pay for everyone's education, unless it can be tied somehow to national need, and their ability to perform at the university level. and that's actually even worse in my (semi-libertarian) opinion. if anodos wants to study japanese, that should be his choice; it shouldn't matter if his parents know the cultural minister.

sorry you have no "right" to health insurance, nor to an education. those are privileges we bestow on ourselves from time to time.
 
2010-02-06 03:35:09 PM  

cards fan by association: health insurance, a warm home, and your education


I grew up for most of my life without health insurance, and we couldn't usually afford "heat" in the sense of being comfortable in our own house for most of my childhood. My education was due to the efforts of my parents to fund/provide it, until college... where it was nice to have the option of publically subsidized loans, but I don't consider them to have been a right or entitlement.
 
2010-02-06 03:37:33 PM  
health care didn't used to cost so much because it didn't used to provide as much, buddy.
 
2010-02-06 03:39:32 PM  
proteus_b and Anodos:

Damn good thing you two don't have a condition that costs a lot of money and are jobless.

Until you experience this or a coverage cap (ask any cancer patient), you have absolutely NO perspective on what it is like to be kicked to the curb by folks such as yourselves.
 
2010-02-06 03:39:50 PM  

cards fan by association: Anodos: cards fan by association: right to protecting your health

The right to not have another person take your life, the implied "right to life" of Locke and the Declaration of Independence, etc, differs from the right to protection from all negative circumstances affecting your health. You have the right to the protection of the property needed to exchange for healthcare, not the right to the care itself.

You are explaining a document that is hundreds of years old. Did health care cost this much when it was written? There's something in the Declaration that says something about all people are created equal too... apparently that doesn't apply to people with pre existing conditions.


Does that mean that because of the ubiquity and quality of entertainment nowadays, when compared to the time of the founding fathers, that I have a right to receive entertainment with public funds, the way that I want/"require" it?

/things change, but rarely the principles of them
 
2010-02-06 03:41:17 PM  
I'm 28 and I couldn't agree more. The ONE time I managed to get hired somewhere, I learned my job fast and worked my arse off every day. Most of my fellow employees were around my age and sitting there texting their entire shift. I spoke to management about it several times and nothing was done (oh we need proof blah blah, maybe take some time to walk around your damn store for once and look around?).... Somehow I managed to end up being the one that was expendable.

Hundreds of applications submitted, one job offer.

So a smart hard worker sits here waiting for someone to give them a chance.

/yes I'm bitter.
//fark the system.
 
2010-02-06 03:42:38 PM  

Anodos: cards fan by association: Anodos: cards fan by association: right to protecting your health

The right to not have another person take your life, the implied "right to life" of Locke and the Declaration of Independence, etc, differs from the right to protection from all negative circumstances affecting your health. You have the right to the protection of the property needed to exchange for healthcare, not the right to the care itself.

You are explaining a document that is hundreds of years old. Did health care cost this much when it was written? There's something in the Declaration that says something about all people are created equal too... apparently that doesn't apply to people with pre existing conditions.

Does that mean that because of the ubiquity and quality of entertainment nowadays, when compared to the time of the founding fathers, that I have a right to receive entertainment with public funds, the way that I want/"require" it?

/things change, but rarely the principles of them


No, Anodos, please realize the difference between dying of diabetes because you can't afford basic needs that have been around for decades and not going to a football game.
 
2010-02-06 03:43:24 PM  

Smarshmallow: jso2897: The point of life is to be happy survive long enough to produce viable offspring.


The point of MY life is whatever I say it is.
The point of YOUR life is bagging my groceries.
Just to clarify. :D
 
2010-02-06 03:44:46 PM  

cards fan by association: proteus_b and Anodos:

Damn good thing you two don't have a condition that costs a lot of money and are jobless.

Until you experience this or a coverage cap (ask any cancer patient), you have absolutely NO perspective on what it is like to be kicked to the curb by folks such as yourselves.


Were there no organizations established in the private sphere to help out people with the conditions you reference? No family you could go to for help appealing on grounds of relationship? No community around you to ask for help? No hospital willing to extend you assistance for your care? I give money to groups that are working on improving care for and access to care for people with diabetes, because of a close friend who was diagnosed late with type 1 diabetes and almost died; if he had asked or needed me to help him pay for his condition, I would have done what I could. Where is my legal/national obligation to pay for the treatment of everyone else's expensive conditions, conditions that are only "expensive" because they are no longer fatal?
 
2010-02-06 03:46:08 PM  

SausageOstrich: I'm 28 and I couldn't agree more. The ONE time I managed to get hired somewhere, I learned my job fast and worked my arse off every day. Most of my fellow employees were around my age and sitting there texting their entire shift. I spoke to management about it several times and nothing was done (oh we need proof blah blah, maybe take some time to walk around your damn store for once and look around?).... Somehow I managed to end up being the one that was expendable.

Hundreds of applications submitted, one job offer.

So a smart hard worker sits here waiting for someone to give them a chance.

/yes I'm bitter.
//fark the system.


Nobody likes a snitch.
 
2010-02-06 03:48:37 PM  

Anodos: cards fan by association: proteus_b and Anodos:

Damn good thing you two don't have a condition that costs a lot of money and are jobless.

Until you experience this or a coverage cap (ask any cancer patient), you have absolutely NO perspective on what it is like to be kicked to the curb by folks such as yourselves.

Were there no organizations established in the private sphere to help out people with the conditions you reference? No family you could go to for help appealing on grounds of relationship? No community around you to ask for help? No hospital willing to extend you assistance for your care? I give money to groups that are working on improving care for and access to care for people with diabetes, because of a close friend who was diagnosed late with type 1 diabetes and almost died; if he had asked or needed me to help him pay for his condition, I would have done what I could. Where is my legal/national obligation to pay for the treatment of everyone else's expensive conditions, conditions that are only "expensive" because they are no longer fatal?


So what you're saying is that the world would be better off if these treatable conditions were still fatal and we were more like ancient Sparta? You give money to groups who work to benefit everyone with the condition, not just your friend.
 
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