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(Washington Post)   Bill O'Reilly pulls a Trent Lott. In other news, this is the 500,000th link   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 1025
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548 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2003 at 9:34 AM (11 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-04-15 02:35:53 PM
btw, congrats Drew on 500k...keep on farking everyone
 
2003-04-15 02:36:37 PM
Kpar90 - "Next you'll be wanting federal holiday recognition for Kwanzaa."

And you wonder why I called you a bigot. Contrary to what you believe all of us don't celebrate Kwanzaa, so we won't be wanting anything of the sort. AND YOU'RE SO CLOUDED WITH HATE THAT YOU'D PROTEST ANOTHER DAY OFF OF WORK!?! You're credibility is now gone. All of it.
 
2003-04-15 02:36:53 PM
 
2003-04-15 02:37:50 PM
 
G2V
2003-04-15 02:39:19 PM
Shut........UP
As you can see (maybe you can't) the argument included "male" in terms of discrimination against other groups.

I'm not sure what your point is. Sorry if you're going to attack me now with some witty retort, but race isn't the sole discriminating factor. Gender, ethnicity, wealth are all pretty important too =D

Bobert

G2V,
you are a moron if you think there are many great jobs in the suburbs. suburbs have houses and grocery stores and banks, not flourishing industry or businesses. suburbs are storage for people that work in a city and can afford the drive.


Thanks, not only did your wonderfully stinging comment force me to spend many moments soul searching, but it also pointed out that many of the people working in the city are more wealthy (who tend to be less minorities) people outside of the city. The people in the city have access to almost NO jobs. Those grocery stores and corner shops are better than no employment at all. There's a reason why the simpsons poke fun at the stereotypical indian quik-e-mart owner.

You can check unemployment rates easily enough, see if it is higher in urban areas than rural, inner city than suburbia.
 
2003-04-15 02:39:44 PM
Shut........UP
"Just look at the composition of the government for proof."

Bushes cabinet:
15 memebers.
7 minorities (including women)
8 whites


Ten minutes later...

Minorities in this case, and in terms of the discussion, has been non-whites.

If you can't just admit this obvious contradiction, then there is no point trying to have a discussion with you.

Have fun feeling superior.
 
G2V
2003-04-15 02:39:57 PM
Dratted tags of evil.
 
2003-04-15 02:40:28 PM
"No need to invent Kwanzaa..."

Just to keep things fair, Christmas is a made-up holiday, too. It was implemented to compete with the pagan festival of Saturnalia.

To drive the point home: Please cite chapter-and-verse of where in the Bible it commands the celebration of Christmas, or better yet, when you're supposed to do so.
 
2003-04-15 02:40:45 PM
As someone who steals hubcaps for a living I am offeneded by the comparison between me and a buch of school children who have nothing better to do with there time than parade arround for O'Riley acting like the Four tops.
 
2003-04-15 02:40:51 PM
DROxINxTHExWIND:

on a more serious note, could you explain why you felt that mentioning your race was necessary on the post, or how you felt it added to the worth or legitimacy of you comment? and if you can do that, could you explain how that is not racist? the other option that should be considered, is the idea that bobert first brought up, and you attacked him for in a previous thread. Bobert stated that you will drop your race and then attack everyone who disagrees with you, as a racist. that still seems like a possibility, but i tend to think your just a bigot, who views race as a determining factor for the worth of individual statements.

you could also address misquoting me to make me look racist. that would be good. I can only guess that every point in this will be ignored, or you will just look at one point, or one group of words, or you will misquote me again, or say that I am a waste of time. But you should come up with some way to avoid answering my questions.
 
2003-04-15 02:41:08 PM
Themeaningoflifeisnot: I never said i was in agreement w/ reparations. Look, I'm not a big fan of Al Sharpton, nor of Jesse Jackson (at least not nowadays), but I think it needs to be understood that when a predominate black figure comes out saying something, the entirety of the Black population doesn't necessarily agree. I think it's a fool idea to try to pay slave descendants, though i think, if companies can be traces, governments should charge those companies and funnel the money to the Smithsonian for something worthwhile (or any other just cause), but IMHO, its unrealistic and not a viable alternative. Should someone be able to rape my sister b/c her great great grandfather raped his great great grandmother? No, I'm not saying the sins of the father fall to the child, but realize that the relationship between father and son is not so far removed that descriminatory practices exist. And insofar as terms like 'hard core racist' go, you're either a racist or you're not. I think o'reilly may not have meant what he said as a racial quip, now that i've heard the whole hubcaps thing(thanks for the enlightenment), but i do believe that racism is a beast that needs to be tackled and immediately. (and by racism i mean all descrimination, please excuse my halfbluntness)
 
2003-04-15 02:41:25 PM
Vroomazoom -
DROxINxTHExWIND:

thats it? If I can call you a bigot, I think that Bobert should be able to call you a bigot as well.

Do you see how ridiculous this comment is. Read it for me again. Come on, how old are you? Ok, tag, I'm it.
 
2003-04-15 02:41:47 PM
Dro: But black people are the ones today who are worried about defining people by what continent they "came from." I'll ignore the internal bias of blacks who are lighter skinned v. blacks who are darker skinned, which would go along with your albino analogy, which is off the mark. Are you now telling me that the push to be called "african-American" is gone? Maybe you don't care so much about it, but millions of others do.

Remy & Weemill: Then shouldn't they be trying to get their heritage back instead of makig up new holidays that are not a part of any history? Also, tell me that Colin Powell isn't proud to be an American. Or any of the thousands of black servicemen that are in the military and in Iraq right now.
 
2003-04-15 02:42:06 PM
Here is my argument supporting affirmative action:

Ok. Here's mine against it.

Affirmative action is using racism to stop racism.

Affirmative action undermines the concept of the individual and the rights that are attributed to the individual by granting special status to a group of individuals at the expense of another. It undermines the concept of merit for *all* individuals concerned.
 
2003-04-15 02:42:54 PM
Wyczar
It's not a fair comparison to equate the African version of slavery to that in America. The African versions typically allowed for marriage, ownership of property, buying of freedom etc. The American version also included enormous loss life in acquiring slaves, relocation to an environment where they did not speak the language and suppression of culture.
 
2003-04-15 02:43:28 PM
Weemill:

Well said. I think I can agree with you.
 
2003-04-15 02:43:30 PM
Not directed at you G2V
 
2003-04-15 02:43:48 PM
Axisted

That's what I've been saying but I don't think they get it.
 
2003-04-15 02:44:17 PM
told us: "I didn't hear it, but it was absolutely a throwaway line."

Yeah, kind of like Bennett's books.
 
2003-04-15 02:44:43 PM
Henchman: As an athiest, I say you're right about that too. If it wasn't for all the presents and the week off, I'd say let's ban Christmas too.

/that didn't turn out like you hoped I bet
 
2003-04-15 02:45:28 PM
DROxINxTHExWIND:

the bobert comment was a joke. ment to be funny. meaning that there was no seriousness to it. i'll slow it down for you next time.
 
2003-04-15 02:45:34 PM
"If you can't just admit this obvious contradiction, then there is no point trying to have a discussion with you."

and if you can't admit that you know damn well what it was in reference to, then any point will be lost in your desire to "listen to the sound of your own voice" rather then debate the point of the argument

"Have fun feeling superior."

People like you make it easy.
 
2003-04-15 02:45:56 PM
Fiver
No, I don't definitively see this as a racial joke. The band was called BEST MEN and best men often vandalize the car and take the hubcaps. O'Reilly was not just a guest speaker picked out of a hat evidentally; he has history with this charity and has been a regular contributor which must say at least something about his intentions overall. I am pretty lefty; heck, I live in Seattle after all. I have been apalled at Jesse Jackson, Trent Lott, and several others but this barely registers on my bigot richter scale. Sorry.
 
2003-04-15 02:46:17 PM
OK... all those people who are not suprised that O'Reiley made a racist remark raise their hand

*raises hand*
 
2003-04-15 02:47:16 PM
Vroom said
"...me look racist."

And what vroom may I ask does a racist look like? What a racist thing to say, also that is poor grammer.

/White man

/arguing like Dro
 
2003-04-15 02:47:22 PM
 
2003-04-15 02:49:06 PM
Bukharin:

pictures disabled. :(
 
2003-04-15 02:49:22 PM
Vroomazoom - Here in lies the problem. I have never had any direct contact, via live post, with Bobert. On a previous thread, Kpar90 shared his opinion of me with Bobert who made some comments. Bobert can never give an instance where I dropped race on a thread to him. He's some guy who jumped into a dispute in the middle, with no prior knowledge of the situation. So again, Bobert, suck me sideways, you are not acknowledged.

As for the significance of me stating that I'm a Black man, I read previous comments where in the middle of the debate the race of the debator became an issue, therefore, I began by identifying myself as a Black man. Do you think it's racist that I identify myself as Black?
 
2003-04-15 02:49:25 PM
I think to make things easier we should use the following:
African Americans = Afrimericans
Mexican Americans = Meximericans
Itallian Americans = Itallimericans
Polish Americans = Polimericans
etc...


Bill O'Reilly is still a Moron.
 
2003-04-15 02:51:09 PM
Axisted

If things like job decisions were made objectively I think everybody would agree there isn't a need for affirm action. Despite whatever legislation has been passed to help encourage people to think objectively it hasn't helped fast enough. I think there's hope for the future, but until then AA will help offset some of this.
 
2003-04-15 02:52:26 PM
DROxINxTHExWIND:

I was in that particular thread, and you did drop your race for no reason at all. Kinda like you did today. and yes, if you feel that identifying your race changes the worth of your statment then you are racist. You also changed what I said to make me apear to be a bigot. not exactly sound arguing tactics.
 
2003-04-15 02:52:41 PM
Axisted
Affirmative action undermines the concept of the individual and the rights that are attributed to the individual by granting special status to a group of individuals at the expense of another

I understand that. I think most people understand that affirmative action is inherently wrong because it draws these arbitrary lines.

The question that immediately arises is the interesting one: is it alright to temporarily act in a way which does not fit your overall moral outlook in order to address past grievances which may otherwise never be succesfully overcome?

In my opinion, yes. There is a need to overcome hundreds of years of prior institutionalized oppression in order for anyone to say they have ever compeded in a free society.

In the same way "free-market" proponents accept the occasional tarrif as a "necessary evil" so can I accept temporary racism as a solution to a long-standing problem.

Objectivist
I enjoy reading your posts here on Fark, but calling me racist was rude and uncalled for, especially since you mis represented my previous post where I stated the opposite of what you accused me of.
 
2003-04-15 02:53:52 PM
Dro,

you are a moron, I read the thread and saw what nonsense you were posting. you were gone by the time I read it so I did not get a chance to tell you.

this might be a hard concept but when you post on a thread it does not go away when you do. It stays arround for others to read.
 
2003-04-15 02:54:09 PM
Kpar90 -
"Also, tell me that Colin Powell isn't proud to be an American. Or any of the thousands of black servicemen that are in the military and in Iraq right now."

Translation: All of you coons should shut-up and dance like that good ni&&er Colin Powell.
 
2003-04-15 02:54:44 PM
DROxINxTHExWIND:

as a side note, I do not know the race of anyone in any thread accept yours. you always make it an issue, becuase you bring it up.
look how stupid the end of my post looks.


/male
 
2003-04-15 02:54:47 PM
Axisted

That's what I've been saying but I don't think they get it.


Maybe they'll feel different if its given a leftist spin. Dubya is a real life example of what will happen to society if power is granted to those who have not earned it (by merit.) He is a prime example of the kind of individual a society that ignores the value of individual merit will produce. He has power, but earned none of it. Powell, on the other hand, deserves his (but granting power to the stupid would be suicidal in the military, obviously not for politics.)
 
2003-04-15 02:55:42 PM
Kpar90: I hate to tell you, but a lot of servicemen are there for one thing: $$$. However, I do agree that they are proud to be an american. Hell, I'm proud too. But that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. And insofar as making up holidays, don't tell me you're not going easter egg hunting w/ your kids this year. Or that you're not going to fire fireworks this year. Or that you'll take off Memorial day and Labor day. These are all Holidays made up, in some form or fashion. Holidays are ALL made up, in some fashion. Just because its something you can't understand or don't choose to subscribe to, it doesn't make those with a moral sense of obligation towards these holidays any less valid. If a bunch of people decide they wanna celebrate whack-off day, they can. If enough people decide they want whack-off day off as a day of observation and reflection, guess what...Whackoff day is an official holiday. That's how it works, dude.

Bobert: I agree with you, completely and one hundred percent. The Four Tops? Inconceivable!
 
2003-04-15 02:56:00 PM
Vroomazoom -
"the bobert comment was a joke. ment to be funny. meaning that there was no seriousness to it. i'll slow it down for you next time."

It might help the next time if it's actually funny.
 
2003-04-15 02:56:05 PM
Franky17

Just because you put all in front of it doesn't give you a free pass.
 
2003-04-15 02:56:19 PM
folow up from previous post to DRO

For example the crap you just posted about Powell will be arround for others to realise you are a racist.
 
2003-04-15 02:57:07 PM
DROxINxTHExWIND - BRAVO.
 
2003-04-15 02:57:38 PM
"good ni&&er"... is that bad?
 
2003-04-15 02:58:39 PM
DROxINxTHExWIND:

Jesus!!! quit changing what people said! THAT IS NOT AN ARGUEMENT!!!!!! changing what people say, and making it racist Is Not An Arguement!. If you cant stand under the validity of your own thoughts, then dont talk. Just give up and walk out. GOD DAMN

--side note -- out to lunch back in 30.
 
2003-04-15 02:59:17 PM
DROxINxTHExWIND

Calm down. Whites aren't out to get you.
 
2003-04-15 02:59:33 PM
Cobol -
DROxINxTHExWIND - BRAVO.



Thank you, thank you. I'm here all week.
 
2003-04-15 03:01:19 PM
Dro-

I'm a bit confused on your stance. You are upset that white people have all the power and opportunity on their side in the US, but then if a minority does end up in a higher position than usual, are they necessarily a sell out as you imply about Powell? A minority making inroads in the current power structure would be a good thing, wouldn't it? Otherwise, you'd be saying that we should all sit around and just complain about it and eye anyone who actually becomes successful as a sell-out?
 
2003-04-15 03:02:13 PM
DRO, which kind of ni&&er are you, good or bad? And which is most preferable?
 
2003-04-15 03:02:23 PM
I'd hit it.
 
2003-04-15 03:03:47 PM
I understand what Dro meant by the whole Colin Powell thing...Follow me.

Here's what I consider someone who's racist and doesn't know it, through past experience:

When they mention someone like Colin Powell, saying, "He's so well spoken." If any of you guys ever said those words, i'd check myself.

White people always mention colin powell, like he's the epitome of what all black men should strive to be like. Geez, then colin wouldn't be that special, now would he...
(this was NOT, i repeat, NOT, directed to anyone in particular....just the ventings of someone who's heard it MANY times outside the chris rock special)
 
2003-04-15 03:04:25 PM
Axisted: "It undermines the concept of merit for *all* individuals concerned."

And how exactly do you define this objective concept of merit?

"Meritocracy" is a myth.

As Louis Menand wrote in the New Yorker recently:

"American education is not meritocratic, and it never has been. Merit, defined as quantifiable aptitude and achievement, is just one of the variables that decide educational outcomes. Success in college admissions, as in almost every sphere of life, is a function of some combination of ability, connections, persistence, wealth, and special markersthat is, attributes valued for the difference they make to 'the mix.'"
 
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