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(MSNBC)   That rumor about Haiti releasing the 10 church people that were transporting kids. Forget that, they've all been formally charged for kidnapping   (msnbc.msn.com) divider line 537
    More: News, Baptist, church members, P.J. Crowley, Haiti, kidnapping, missionary, Port-au-Prince, computer technicians  
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11341 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Feb 2010 at 5:19 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-02-04 02:50:55 PM  
Well it sounds like that's what they were doing. Even if your intentions are good, you can't just take kids.
 
2010-02-04 02:54:36 PM  
sweetmelissa31: Well it sounds like that's what they were doing. Even if your intentions are good, you can't just take kids.

They were sent by God. Jebus makes everything OK.
 
2010-02-04 02:58:39 PM  
sweetmelissa31: Well it sounds like that's what they were doing. Even if your intentions are good, you can't just take kids.

It's different for religious people. They can kidnap or harbor kids all they want.
 
2010-02-04 02:58:58 PM  
A bunch of pasty white people snatching up little black kids? Nah, not suspicious at all. I bet those kids were scheduled do the majority of the work at their little Idaho compound.
 
2010-02-04 02:59:20 PM  
andrew131: They were sent by God. Jebus makes everything OK.

True.. these children had to be saved from that pact their ancestors made with the devil.
 
2010-02-04 03:02:18 PM  
The group's lawyer, Edwin Coq, said the church members face three to nine years in prison if they are found guilty at trial. If there is a trial, it could be three months away.

A few thoughts:

1. 3-9 years sounds like a lot less than they would receive in the US.

2. Only three months until a trial? That's kind of speedy by US standards.

3. Maybe they should have hired a lawyer before trying to transport a bunch of undocumented children across an international border. You know, maybe check if everything was legal and would be okay.
 
2010-02-04 03:06:11 PM  
Sid_6.7: 3. Maybe they should have hired a lawyer before trying to transport a bunch of undocumented children across an international border. You know, maybe check if everything was legal and would be okay.

It was God's will!
 
2010-02-04 03:11:48 PM  
andrew131: It was God's will!

See, the problem I have with that argument is that they should be perfectly willing to accept their current conditions if that was the case. Obviously, this is part of God's plan. Maybe He wanted this to happen in order to help reveal to the world the difficulties children face in Haiti. Maybe it will help more children in the end that this happened. They get hit with one significant setback and act like it is the end of the world. If they believe that they were doing God's work, should they not be happy to accept whatever comes from it?

Why is it that I, as an atheist, have a better grasp of the concept of trusting in God than most people I know who claim that they trust in God?
 
2010-02-04 03:15:51 PM  
Sid_6.7: Why is it that I, as an atheist, have a better grasp of the concept of trusting in God than most people I know who claim that they trust in God?

Because you're educated. That's what was great about MLK Jr. He was willing to accept the consequences for his protests and it was very effective.
 
2010-02-04 03:18:04 PM  
good. the children weren't orphans and they were trying to take them out of the country illegally.
 
2010-02-04 03:18:39 PM  
andrew131: That's what was great about MLK Jr. He was willing to accept the consequences for his protests and it was very effective.

The same can be said of Ghandi, though his religion differed. A lot of people were punished in one way or another for doing good things.
 
2010-02-04 03:18:40 PM  
andrew131: Because you're educated.

Philosophy was one of my majors, which I guess does give me a leg up when asking questions like "Why would a benevolent deity allow this to happen?"

The answer, of course, is that you must have faith, and that God doesn't work on human logic. I just happen to utterly lack that faith.
 
2010-02-04 03:19:54 PM  
nekom: The same can be said of Ghandi, though his religion differed. A lot of people were punished in one way or another for doing good things.

Although, Ghandi was a bit of racist womanizing prick.
 
2010-02-04 03:20:29 PM  
Sid_6.7: Philosophy was one of my majors, which I guess does give me a leg up when asking questions like "Why would a benevolent deity allow this to happen?"

I'm a deist but the crazy religion shiat is just that, shiat.
 
2010-02-04 03:38:42 PM  
Sid_6.7: andrew131: It was God's will!

See, the problem I have with that argument is that they should be perfectly willing to accept their current conditions if that was the case. Obviously, this is part of God's plan. Maybe He wanted this to happen in order to help reveal to the world the difficulties children face in Haiti. Maybe it will help more children in the end that this happened. They get hit with one significant setback and act like it is the end of the world. If they believe that they were doing God's work, should they not be happy to accept whatever comes from it?

Why is it that I, as an atheist, have a better grasp of the concept of trusting in God than most people I know who claim that they trust in God?


There's your gotcha logic and rational thought.
 
2010-02-04 03:51:29 PM  
good. serves 'em right.
 
2010-02-04 04:16:24 PM  
Sid_6.7:

3. Maybe they should have hired a lawyer before trying to transport a bunch of undocumented children across an international border. You know, maybe check if everything was legal and would be okay.


But, you know, they were in Haiti, and they, like, figured that they could do whatever because they had "verbal permission" to take kids into another country and totally promised not to put the non-orphans up for adoption. So that makes it all, like, okay and stuff. It was going to be a better life, in another country, at an orphanage run by American Christians. Why would they need paperwork and stuff? God gave them a thumb's up to take whatever kid was within reach. If only they'd had a bigger bus!!

Watching these people rationalize makes me even more angry.
 
2010-02-04 04:41:28 PM  
The problem with Baptists is they don't hold them underwater long enough.
 
2010-02-04 05:19:45 PM  
Thank god!

/wait, what?
 
2010-02-04 05:20:51 PM  
Where are they going to put them? Reinforced tents? And don't then have MUCH bigger things to worry about?
 
2010-02-04 05:20:53 PM  
Jail all missionaries.
 
2010-02-04 05:21:25 PM  
okay, so Haiti is still destroyed, there's still an ongoing humanitarian crisis... this is what the media talks about?
 
2010-02-04 05:21:53 PM  
 
2010-02-04 05:22:44 PM  
Screw Haiti. I've given money to relief efforts there, but if they're going to confuse an ill-conceived attempt to shelter kids from the effects of the earthquake as kidnapping, they can rot in their self-made cesspool.
 
2010-02-04 05:23:50 PM  
*please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists**please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists*
 
2010-02-04 05:25:02 PM  
Not news. Wait...

Ok, not newsflash worthy.
 
2010-02-04 05:25:03 PM  
Typical overreaction. Just the other day, a very sincere looking man came through my neighborhood in his van. He was going driveway to driveway attempting to recruit children for his lost puppy recovery mission, payment -- free candy. What parent could say no to such a growth opportunity? I hope the US Secret Service storms the Haiti prison and recovers these caring souls. We need them back here, on American soil, doing God's work. Text 909932 to 1-866-NAMBLA to donate ten dollars.
 
2010-02-04 05:25:43 PM  
A good way to not be charged with kidnapping is to not kidnap.
 
2010-02-04 05:25:45 PM  
Philippians 1
 
2010-02-04 05:25:53 PM  
Good-you just don't go somewhere and start taking kids. It was asinine. I get the intentions were "good" but- you still can't do it. It's called human trafficking. We can't say that because you have certain religious beliefs and there was a disaster that relieves you from the law.
 
2010-02-04 05:26:00 PM  
mirror.servut.us
 
2010-02-04 05:26:16 PM  
Good. fark 'em. I'm tired of hearing about these self-righteous Christian Evangelical organizations doing whatever the hell they want all over the world, claiming that it's all in the name of whatever spiritual BS they feel gives them the right to do as they please.

I hope they're found guilty and given the maximum sentences.
 
2010-02-04 05:26:29 PM  
Sid_6.7: The group's lawyer, Edwin Coq, said the church members face three to nine years in prison if they are found guilty at trial. If there is a trial, it could be three months away.

A few thoughts:

1. 3-9 years sounds like a lot less than they would receive in the US.

2. Only three months until a trial? That's kind of speedy by US standards.

3. Maybe they should have hired a lawyer before trying to transport a bunch of undocumented children across an international border. You know, maybe check if everything was legal and would be okay.


4. The guy's name looks like cock.
 
2010-02-04 05:26:36 PM  
Obnox: The problem with Baptists is they don't hold them underwater long enough.

I LOL'd. Never heard this before, but you can bet I'll use it in the future.
 
2010-02-04 05:27:15 PM  
drb9: Screw Haiti. I've given money to relief efforts there, but if they're going to confuse an ill-conceived attempt to shelter kids from the effects of the earthquake as kidnapping, they can rot in their self-made cesspool.

Sorry, when you take someone without legal permission, that's kidnapping.

Nothing wrong with what Haiti is doing. If anyone is to blame, it's the folks who didn't get a lawyer to look over their paperwork first.
 
2010-02-04 05:28:04 PM  
I hope this doesn't backfire against US citizens already there or going there to help. I'll be heading to Haiti in the near future on a humanitarian mission to assist in rebuilding an orphanage that collapsed during the quake.

Anyways, I think these people had good intentions, they just didn't have the right documents with them. The parents willingly gave their children up, which I see as no different than giving them to an adoption agency. However, if you aren't willing to do it properly and legally, you're going to have to face the consequences.
 
2010-02-04 05:28:46 PM  
Death to 'Christians'
 
2010-02-04 05:28:59 PM  
Oh yay Farkers.. No shortage of anti-religious trolls that blame you for stereotyping races, but turn around and stereotype all Christians as 'one type of people'. Hypocritical douches...
 
2010-02-04 05:29:04 PM  
Good.
 
2010-02-04 05:29:07 PM  
If, while in prison, a missionary gets raped in the ass, is it still considered the missionary position, and therefore not a sin?
 
2010-02-04 05:29:11 PM  
This is really unfair - those poor people. The same thing happened to me the other day so I know exactly how they are feeling.

I was in Wal-Mart and there was this kid just standing there alone - obviously abandoned. So I grabbed him, took him to my car and drove to Canada where I released him into the wild (after harmlessly tagging his ear)

What an uproar this caused. You'd think I abducted some kid from a shopping center, drove him to a strange and cold place away from all civilization, tagged him and just dropped him off.

This country is become more and more like Nazi Germany every day. Except for the part where the Nazi's grabbed children and took them away and tagged them. You definitely can't do that here... Stupid godless liberals...

/too far?
 
2010-02-04 05:29:34 PM  
tedbundee: *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists**please be the Scientologists* *please be the Scientologists*

Nope, these are Baptists. The Scientologists would have a lawyer talk them out of it first or leave the kids with 30 copies of Dianetics and an e-meter.

The Baptist group thought they were helping, but taking children away from their families in a time of crisis doesn't help. They should provide the families with food and shelter instead of taking away the kids. Is it because they believe Haitians will rear the kids to believe in the devil? Bringing the kids to the US might give them a brighter future, but it has to be done legally.
 
2010-02-04 05:29:49 PM  
phaedrusiszen: sweetmelissa31: Well it sounds like that's what they were doing. Even if your intentions are good, you can't just take kids.

It's different for religious people. They can kidnap or harbor kids all they want.


They can do whatever they want and claim God told them to do it.
 
2010-02-04 05:30:21 PM  
Fark the children of Haiti. How about taking care of the children of America first?
 
2010-02-04 05:30:31 PM  
I'm not sure that this is kidnapping, by the US definition anyway, if the missionaries were given permission by whoever was caring for the children (whether it be their real parents, an orphanage, or... sadly... no one [if there was no one to care for them]) to take them away. But...

Orgasmatron138: 3. Maybe they should have hired a lawyer before trying to transport a bunch of undocumented children across an international border. You know, maybe check if everything was legal and would be okay.

THIS.
 
2010-02-04 05:30:35 PM  
For the two other people here who may have seen Greenaway's "The Draftsman's Contract" --

Mrs. Talmann: His father was killed at Aufbergensfeld. His mother became a Catholic so my husband had him brought to England.

Mr. Neville: To be raised as a little Protestant?

Mrs. Talmann: He was an orphan, Mr. Neville, and needed to be looked after.

Mr. Neville: An orphan, madame, because his mother became a Catholic?
 
2010-02-04 05:30:36 PM  
drb9: Screw Haiti. I've given money to relief efforts there, but if they're going to confuse an ill-conceived attempt to shelter kids from the effects of the earthquake as kidnapping, they can rot in their self-made cesspool.

Inform yourself before making a stupid comment. The evidence released so far clearly shows that they knew what they were doing was illegal, self-serving, and deceitful. They were turned away from the border for lack of proper documents, and then they went to the Dominican consulate, and attempted to have those docs forged. Among other things that I'm too lazy to type.
 
2010-02-04 05:31:40 PM  
drb9
Screw Haiti. I've given money to relief efforts there, but if they're going to confuse an ill-conceived attempt to shelter kids from the effects of the earthquake as kidnapping, they can rot in their self-made cesspool.

Yeah, it's really a pity that all the money we've given to that relief effort is going toward prosecuting these noble, innocent Christians. Especially considering that they had the bad judgment to have an earthquake in the first place!
 
2010-02-04 05:31:48 PM  
They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into.....I say, let em crash.

/count
//pointercount
 
2010-02-04 05:31:56 PM  
sweetmelissa31: andrew131: They were sent by God. Jebus makes everything OK.

True.. these children had to be saved from that pact their ancestors made with the devil.


This sounds a whole lot like extortion. Does Jebus have bribes or bail money?
Also, never trust organized religion for anything.
 
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