Those poor people. Talk about losing life's lottery the moment you are born. What else can be said? There is nothing we can do to stop it unless full scale nuclear war sounds good to you.

Those poor, poor people.

nytmare: When you go around buying and using drugs and mugging old ladies and stealing their purses and shooting rivals, you really ought to forgive someone for being fooled into not realizing you're actually an undercover cop.

Yea but when "Buying Durgs" JWP walks in to a room and yells "I am Buying Illegal DRUGS, LOOK at me, I could not be a cop since I am BUYING DRUGS!!!!"

GoodOmens:
It's basic economics - price setting can create shortages if set to low (Look at water in California)

I had no idea that government price-setting caused droughts! Thank, Dr. Science!

jehovahs witness protection: Hey look Obama. This is what socialist attitudes lead to.



/probably hot

OgreMagi: Anodos: OgreMagi: The kibbutzes seem to be working, unlike the hippie commune experiments in our control which all collapsed because of variations of "tragedy of the commons".

This is an important observation; socialism, like complete socialism, and Communism/Marxism can work on smaller scales. Particularly if everyone involved is working together. Some could argue that the Pacific Northwest native peoples practiced a form of Communism, certainly of communalism at the very least, because they were invested in each other as members of the same totems, tribes, etc. The problem is that that ceases to function in an urabinzed, highly technological society, where you get complex hierarchies... especially in places like Europe, Russia, China, and North Korea, where such institutions were already the norm that people looked to for stability.

Pretty much. It simply does not scale. I am sickened by people who argue that it wasn't done right, because it is impossible to "do right". Enough people have already died from that failed experiment. Stick the communes and all is fine.

I'm fairly certain that democracy will not scale to an interstellar government, but I won't live to see if my theory is correct.

Fun fact: when the Pilgrims landed, the first thing they tried was actually communism.

They said fark it after a few years; they found it inefficient.

OgreMagi: I'm fairly certain that democracy will not scale to an interstellar government, but I won't live to see if my theory is correct.

Assuming you have some method of instantaneous communication, I don't think it would be a problem. Without it, you run into a late 18th century Western hemisphere issue where the colonies really notice the lack of connection to the motherstate and begin acting independently.

And like the seeding of America, a lot of the early colonists are going to be people who don't like the government wherever they are (for whatever reason). My guess is the first major colonial seed ships will be one of three groups, if not all: Mormons, Scientologists, and/or private companies looking for profits. This will lead to more independent feeling, if not outright successionist tendencies.

As long as the travel time is long, I think your assumption about not scaling is correct. But if information and material flow are relatively quick (enough for measured responses or swift reactions), I don't think the stars will be a problem.

There are North Koreans who have seen the outside world--they travel back and forth across the Chinese border, smuggling or legally importing goods. In the old days, the radios and TV's only got the government stations, but that changed with the importation of Chinese goods a while ago. Language and culture are partial barriers, because the local dialects have diverged over the decades and Northerners find South Korea strange and frightening, even after defecting.

This latest currency rejiggering isn't the first--they've had one about every decade or so, but this is the first one since the state tolerated private markets. The bigger merchants held most of their cash in foreign currency, but the smaller merchants and the customers of the markets were badly affected.

The US only has about 30,000 soldiers in Korea, but the South Korean army could hold off an invasion. The real military risk is artillery, because the North could shell Seoul from where they are now.

Desperate citizens currently have no way over the DMZ, but lots are fleeing (or being trafficked) across the Chinese border. Young girls are a major export.

The outlook is that the regime could collapse tomorrow or last another fifty years. There are no good historical parallels and even if there were, there's a lack of good information. Defectors in the South are paranoid about talking, and rightly so, so we can deduce that North Koreans in the north are also paranoid, with the elite doubly so. It's bad enough predicting the future when you're talking about rational people with access to semi-reliable information.

It just occurred to me that North Korea is like a country run by Fox News, where lies are proclaimed brazenly and where "true citizens" lord it over those whose loyalties are suspect or who support a slightly different economic policy.

theMightyRegeya: GoodOmens:
It's basic economics - price setting can create shortages if set to low (Look at water in California)

I had no idea that government price-setting caused droughts! Thank, Dr. Science!

If you price water below the cost of extraction you'll have overcompensation, and get this, a drought. You can easily get more water from the ocean, but at current water prices set by the government any company would be foolish to do so due to cost.

People would think twice about filling their pool or watering their garden if it was priced at what the market demands. Nice try at trolling though.

Because of threads like this one, I can no longer tell the difference between chain-yanking trolls, and genuine howling dumb-asses.

Thanks, Fark!

twfeline: She still believed everything that she was taught about how the U.S. keeps all blacks in concentration camps, American military recruits used asian convicts for target practice, all families were forced to give up their first-born males to serve as career soldiers, etc.

Wait, wut? We don't? Well fark it, I'm moving to Canadia. At least those polite bastards aren't stupid enough to socialize healthcare.

Gosling:
Fun fact: when the Pilgrims landed, the first thing they tried was actually communism.

They said fark it after a few years; they found it inefficient when compared to pillaging the Indians.

HoozierDaddy: In the old days, the radios and TV's only got the government stations,

The radios don't have dials. The TV's have what basically amount to a light switch.

Recently read a book about the governmental-induced mass starvation in North Korea in the 1990s. It's called "Nothing to Envy." The people who aren't brain-washed are too starved or scared to fight back.

if :

(fta) "desecration of the image of the nation's late founder, Kim Il Sung, whose portrait was on the currency, is considered treason."

and

(fta) "North Korea announced it would knock two zeros off its currency"

Then the people who decided to devalue the paper on which Kims face is should be put to death.

WrestlerManager: Gosling:
Fun fact: when the Pilgrims landed, the first thing they tried was actually communism.

They said fark it after a few years; they found it inefficient when compared to pillaging the Indians.

The Pilgrims? Naw, the Massachusetts Bay Company folks, maybe, but the Separatists had reasonably good relations with the natives for a relative while; especially since the locals were dying like flies at the time.

CapitolG: Yea but when "Buying Durgs" JWP walks in to a room and yells "I am Buying Illegal DRUGS, LOOK at me, I could not be a cop since I am BUYING DRUGS!!!!"

Isn't that the proper way to conduct a drug buy?

navanax: Because of threads like this one, I can no longer tell the difference between chain-yanking trolls, and genuine howling dumb-asses.

It certainly makes life online rather surreal.


/I end up patting actual imbeciles on the back with words of encouragement to "hook more suckers" next time...

sboyle1020: Enough of North Korea. What are we going to do with those chaebol's in South Korea?

They (at least Daewoo and Samsung) have been kind of breaking apart and recombining like DNA in a bacterial mat. Especially since they've been subject to increased pressures from outside companies as South Korea has liberalized over the last two decades. That's not to say that you can't still live from birth to death in and on the products of a single chaebol (Samsung, Lotte, GS/CJ, and Hyundai come to mind) but it's changing.

jehovahs witness protection: Hey look Obama. This is what socialist attitudes lead to.

Hey look Democrats. This is what bitter Republican whining sounds like!

What do you expect from a nation of militaristic, paranoid, xenophobic, racist dwarves?

Sedatedbylife: CapitolG: Yea but when "Buying Durgs" JWP walks in to a room and yells "I am Buying Illegal DRUGS, LOOK at me, I could not be a cop since I am BUYING DRUGS!!!!"

Isn't that the proper way to conduct a drug buy?

Yes; I find walking into bad neighborhoods and saying "Excuse me! Can you help me to buy illegal drugs?" usually ends well.

Mock26: jehovahs witness protection: Hey look Obama. This is what socialist attitudes lead to.

Hey look Democrats. This is what bitter Republican whining sounds like!

Hey look Farkers. This is what successful trolling looks like.


/on TotalFark, jwp cried tears of joy on election night. Really.

WrestlerManager: They said fark it after a few years; they found it inefficient when compared to pillaging the Indians.

Those Injuns weren't going to pillage themselves, were they?

cefm: What do you expect from a nation of militaristic, paranoid, xenophobic, racist dwarves?

More musical numbers, and perhaps a little somnophilia.

I wonder if hate speech is illegal in North Korea.

mekkab: Sedatedbylife: CapitolG: Yea but when "Buying Durgs" JWP walks in to a room and yells "I am Buying Illegal DRUGS, LOOK at me, I could not be a cop since I am BUYING DRUGS!!!!"

Isn't that the proper way to conduct a drug buy?

Yes; I find walking into bad neighborhoods and saying "Excuse me! Can you help me to buy illegal drugs?" usually ends well.

I've also heard it's better to go to neighborhoods that are filled with people of a certain race/heritage and insinuate that because of stereotypes these people will in fact know exactly where to go to find your drug of choice: rural people/meth, black people/marijuana, Republicans/Coke

Big_Fat_Liar: I wonder if hate speech is illegal in North Korea.

That's it. Kimmie says keep your damn piehole shut, you do it. No questions, no answers.

mekkab: This is what successful trolling looks like.

Not too sure I buy it, one or two bites, that is not a JWP success story, hell that is barely passable as a troll, I mean for Prince Of Fark that would be a good one, but JWP? Pfft, he mostly got laughed at and folks turned his troll in to a joke....

mekkab: Sedatedbylife: CapitolG: Yea but when "Buying Durgs" JWP walks in to a room and yells "I am Buying Illegal DRUGS, LOOK at me, I could not be a cop since I am BUYING DRUGS!!!!"

Isn't that the proper way to conduct a drug buy?

Yes; I find walking into bad neighborhoods and saying "Excuse me! Can you help me to buy illegal drugs?" usually ends well.

ya know it dose not pan out unless you add the "I am not a COP trying to buy Illegal Drugs!!!" part....

cefm
What do you expect from a nation of militaristic, paranoid, xenophobic, racist dwarves?

Really weird porn.

CapitolG: ya know it does not pan out unless you add the "I am not a COP trying to buy Illegal Drugs!!!" part....

This was one of the moments where I clicked submit too fast. You are right; the underprivileged inner-city criminals will laugh at you unless you at this important caveat.


/Sorry for that, I was far too high on my illegal drugs. I'll proof read next time.

Any cash in excess of the limit would become invalid -- meaning life savings were being wiped out with the stroke of a pen.

Obama should take note. This is a good way to screw the rich!

HoozierDaddy: The outlook is that the regime could collapse tomorrow or last another fifty years. There are no good historical parallels and even if there were, there's a lack of good information. Defectors in the South are paranoid about talking, and rightly so, so we can deduce that North Koreans in the north are also paranoid, with the elite doubly so. It's bad enough predicting the future when you're talking about rational people with access to semi-reliable information.

So, we just need to do the ol "3 greased pigs labeled 1, 2, 4" trick.

Only, with some sort of underground drilling contraption dropped from an airplane. Make it look like it came from underground and label a bunch in out of sequence numbers.

When they are all in the bottom of their holes digging for the other ones, we'll drive in bulldozers, fill in the holes, and steal all their kimchi.

North Korea is definitely not socialist. I wouldn't consider it communist or even fascist either. It seems to me to be the largest, scariest cult ever created, like if the Scientologists ever founded their own country x 10,000.

At least the Juche idea has eliminated the boom and bust cycle we have to deal with in our society. OK, it only removed the boom portion. But, you do have to start somewhere, right?

I don't understand this idea in the article of wealth "redistribution" via currency revaluation. If you simply destroy the wealth of the workers, how does that relate to any increased wealth of the elite?

Many people mistakenly call North Korea a communist country. It's not, if you look closely, you realize it is just a brutal monarchy. And in a monarchy, it's all about the king. Currency revaluation isn't about increasing the wealth of the elite, its about putting everybody in their place. As usual, the poor get the short end of the stick, but the elite takes a hit too. But Kim and the rest of the royal family are fine.

jehovahs witness protection: Hey look Obama. This is what socialist attitudes lead to.

Wow, that didn't take as long as I thought.

/Obvious troll is obvious

WrestlerManager: Gosling:
Fun fact: when the Pilgrims landed, the first thing they tried was actually communism.

They said fark it after a few years; they found it inefficient when compared to pillaging the Indians.

You need to read more American history books than just Howard Zinn. Besides, the natives were doing a pretty good job of killing and pillaging each other long before the pilgrims got in on the game.

Kygz: Well, at least they have lights...

Maybe they're just not using inefficient lighting that shines upward, away from the stuff that need illuminating.

portscanner: "Any cash in excess of the limit would become invalid -- meaning life savings were being wiped out with the stroke of a pen."

Obama should take note. This is a good way to screw the rich!

hardly a joke, 'Bam wants to do exactly that.

And to agree with others on this point, NK is not really communist or socialist, it really is a monarchy/modern-day feudalism. KJI "owns" that country, and everything and everyone in it.

It'll be really exciting when the Kim regime finally collapses or flees to China, and North Korea opens up. The Berlin Wall was around for what, twenty-five years or so? Korea's DMZ has been in effect for at least twice as long. The cultural, technological, and emotional shock for the Northerners will be astonishing. There'll probably be some shocking discoveries for the rest of the world, too.

TheSpaceAdmiral: Not sure if this had been mentioned yet, but Christopher Hitchens wrote a fascinating book review about North Korea the other day. And normally I hate Hitchens' articles.

I always loved when he brought up his North Korea is heaven bit in debate, it's hysterical. He really seems to understand just what that country is.

/Here's a really good take on NK
//And here's his NK is heaven bit
///The guy is as quick witted and well read a debater as I've ever seen

My theory: Kim Jong Il is going to go totally nuts, end up starting a war, they'll get badly beaten, people will come in and rebuild and see the place is in shambles. By now, Kim Jong Il is dead, and the son is he grooming to take his place will be installed. His son will be in power when they rebuild North Korea, and the people will look to the younger Kim as the person who made Korea great again.

Basically, continue the cult of personality that Kim Jong Il's father started. Each Kim was a great man that was faced with unforeseen circumstances (the terrible invaders!), and eventually prevailed for the glory of North Korea.

xuanzhiyouxuan: Kygz: Well, at least they have lights...

Maybe they're just not using inefficient lighting that shines upward, away from the stuff that need illuminating.

ROFLMAO

*inhales deeply*

LOLLERSKATES

wow.

Dances-With-Lobster: was it socialist when Obama bailed out the banks?
actually, it was.....


I thought Bush started the bank bail out in 2008.Does that mean he was a socialist too?

El_Maestro: There'll probably be some shocking discoveries for the rest of the world, too.

Probably a lot of data from testing chemical and biological agents on humans. Those responsible will be whisked away and not charged with anythingand the data will be used. Like with Unit 731.

Dr.Gonzo7719: WrestlerManager: Gosling:
Fun fact: when the Pilgrims landed, the first thing they tried was actually communism.

They said fark it after a few years; they found it inefficient when compared to pillaging the Indians.

You need to read more American history books than just Howard Zinn. Besides, the natives were doing a pretty good job of killing and pillaging each other long before the pilgrims got in on the game.

So what he said is completely correct then?

UPURZ2: Dances-With-Lobster: was it socialist when Obama bailed out the banks?
actually, it was.....


I thought Bush started the bank bail out in 2008.Does that mean he was a socialist too?

Shhhhhh you're going to upset them with your relevant facts and poignant counterarguments! Besides some of us would still prefer to think that those 8 years were filled by a beachball rather than some idiot who managed to lie his way into office twice.

/Daddy wants a recount!

felixecho: Those poor people. Talk about losing life's lottery the moment you are born. What else can be said? There is nothing we can do to stop it unless full scale nuclear war sounds good to you.

Those poor, poor people.

North Korea possesses (according to experts) fewer than eight nuclear weapons and no reliable delivery system (other than a suicide mission on a plane). If we launched a nuclear first strike on their artillery positions and chemical stockpiles, then took out their leadership with a combination of nuclear and conventional cruise missiles, the war would be over in a matter of days. The primary drawback would be the radioactive fallout that drifts over South Korea and international condemnation. China would likely seek a strong role in the rebuilding of North Korea, and we would probably give it to them.

Yes, people would die. Many of them wish they were already dead.

UPURZ2: Dances-With-Lobster: was it socialist when Obama bailed out the banks?
actually, it was.....


I thought Bush started the bank bail out in 2008.Does that mean he was a socialist too?

Yes? Why do you think that's the big talking point amongst Conservatives? Jeez. Plenty of Republicans were pissed about the bank bailouts, Medicare Part D, NCLB, etc. They just didn't like the alternative party's "THROW EVEN MOAR MONEY AT EVERYTHING AND IT'S BECOME TEH BETTERZ" platform to vote for a different party, and third parties remain, for all intents and purposes, a waste of time and energy for all but the ideological.