If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(azfamily.com)   Sheriff Joe Arpaio is unamused that somebody posted a map to his home and a satellite picture of the property on an anti-Arpaio Facebook page. "I don't think they're selling tours to my house."   (azfamily.com) divider line 367
    More: Amusing, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, satellite imaging, Arpaio Facebook, Maricopa County, 3TV, innocent until proven guilty, bill of rights, bullying  
•       •       •

12973 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2010 at 12:00 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



367 Comments   (+0 »)
   

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2010-02-01 12:47:07 PM
Mnemia: This Arpaio guy is basically the embodiment of conservative dreams for America. This what they seriously want for our country: police state rule by "tough" warlord-cops. Corruption is okay, because hey, authority figures need to live comfortably in order to show everyone else how "respected" they are. Just look at all the supportive comments on that article.

jetsetradio.files.wordpress.com
/Is amused by this
 
2010-02-01 12:47:57 PM
Groover McToober:
Big deal.


Enjoy your vacation.
 
2010-02-01 12:48:46 PM
Let's see, law enforcement officer who doesn't coddle criminals. cue libtard media rage and bias, which in turn attracts the Fark cop haters like flies..who then appluad threats and violations that they supposedly deplore.

Just another monday.
 
2010-02-01 12:49:07 PM
Goodfella: The mafia used to call it their "no targeting the family" rule.

I prefer their "leave the gun, take the cannoli" rule.
 
2010-02-01 12:50:36 PM
incrdbil: Let's see, law enforcement officer who doesn't coddle criminals.

Of course he doesn't coddle criminals, he's too busy bringing federal investigation on his office for that.
 
2010-02-01 12:51:19 PM
hubiestubert: embezzling quite as heavy, taking kickbacks in the millions, or cold rolling into neighborhoods arresting folks willy nilly

Got links for these accusations?
 
2010-02-01 12:51:34 PM
I may not Like that Sheriff,
but whoever did the FB page needs to get f*kedalot.
and, i suspect they will be.
 
2010-02-01 12:53:22 PM
Sin_City_Superhero: Is it wrong that I want bad things to happen to Arpaio? For example, I think it'd be just awesome if he were indicted and put in his own jail, pink underwear and all. And make sure all the other inmates know who he is.

I'm geninly curious; why? Why do you hate some guy, for enforcing the law, doing his job, and honoring his oath of office? Why does that make him evil?

Do you feel the same antagonism for all the congressmen who will do nothing about the immigration problem again this month?
 
2010-02-01 12:53:28 PM
incrdbil: Let's see, law enforcement officer who doesn't coddle criminals. cue libtard media rage and bias, which in turn attracts the Fark cop haters like flies..who then appluad threats and violations that they supposedly deplore.

Just another monday.


My problem isn't that he doesn't coddle them, it's that he is so extreme that he endangers lives of people who haven't yet gotten a trial, and that he rounds up entire groups of people on the suspicion that some of them might be doing something illegal, though he can't demonstrate any kind of probable cause for that suspicion.
 
2010-02-01 12:54:46 PM
Doubleodoug: No. I'm willing to follow your rational as it applies to the Republican party, but true conservatism hasn't really changed. Just because someone professes to be part of a group doesn't make it so. Just like that Dr. killer people are talking about up thread probably thinks he is a hero, but that doesn't make it so.

This is pretty close to a "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Like it or not, the meaning shifts once a critical mass of supporters of the philosophy shift their views. This is true of "conservatism", "liberalism", "Christianity", and any other vague and broad grouping. I agree that today's conservatism isn't the same as Barry Goldwater's conservatism, but they're both still the "conservative" movement. I'm sorry that you lost your label, but that ship has sailed.

Likewise, Scott Roeder (the murderer of Dr. Tiller) is a Christian domestic terrorist, because his crime was motivated by his Christianity. It's irrelevant that you might not agree with his views on Christianity, because HE identifies himself as a Christian martyr. (Also, a number of other groups that are motivated by Christian beliefs basically said "yeah, murder is wrong, but we're glad Tiller is dead".)
 
2010-02-01 12:56:03 PM
As long as he's done nothing wrong he has nothing to fear.
 
2010-02-01 12:56:50 PM
what_now: I lived a few houses down from the Police Chief of my town. Nice guy- always out puttering in his front garden.

No one seemed to care where he lived. Probably because he wasn't a corrupt douchebag.


It usually helps.
 
2010-02-01 12:57:08 PM
firefly212:

My problem isn't that he doesn't coddle them, it's that he is so extreme that he endangers lives of people who haven't yet gotten a trial, and that he rounds up entire groups of people on the suspicion that some of them might be doing something illegal, though he can't demonstrate any kind of probable cause for that suspicion.


All of that is bad enough, but the politically-based retribution against his critics and abuse of power is REALLY what I think makes Sheriff Joe a problem that goes beyond a local "bad sheriff" issue. I'm glad the feds have finally come down on him.
 
2010-02-01 12:58:27 PM
Mnemia: This Arpaio guy is basically the embodiment of conservative dreams for America. This what they seriously want for our country: police state rule by "tough" warlord-cops. Corruption is okay, because hey, authority figures need to live comfortably in order to show everyone else how "respected" they are. Just look at all the supportive comments on that article.

Except that almost every police state is a Left Wing operation. Like Cuba, China, WWII Germany, the USSR, East Germany, etc.

It's not the Right that wants unlimited Government, Retard.

If you want unlimited immigration, then ask your government to repeal the laws. Don't blame the cop for doing his job.
 
2010-02-01 01:00:51 PM
I wonder if the Evo Morales people are associated with this.
 
2010-02-01 01:00:54 PM
Little.Alex: If you want unlimited immigration, then ask your government to repeal the laws. Don't blame the cop for doing his job.

He is loved by the right for doing his job. It is HOW he's doing his job that has become an issue.

And you're not all that good at this.
 
2010-02-01 01:01:58 PM
Little.Alex: Sin_City_Superhero: Is it wrong that I want bad things to happen to Arpaio? For example, I think it'd be just awesome if he were indicted and put in his own jail, pink underwear and all. And make sure all the other inmates know who he is.

I'm geninly curious; why? Why do you hate some guy, for enforcing the law, doing his job, and honoring his oath of office? Why does that make him evil?

Do you feel the same antagonism for all the congressmen who will do nothing about the immigration problem again this month?


I was going to answer you, but the very next post pretty much covered it:

firefly212: it's that he is so extreme that he endangers lives of people who haven't yet gotten a trial, and that he rounds up entire groups of people on the suspicion that some of them might be doing something illegal, though he can't demonstrate any kind of probable cause for that suspicion.
 
2010-02-01 01:02:48 PM
The mailman is out to get you, Joe. Who else would have such easy access to your mailing address?
 
2010-02-01 01:03:11 PM
I love how Obama is elected - and it's the will of the people who desire a change from the previous admin.

But let Sheriff Arpaio win an election - and it's corruption, or some other myriad of excuses.

Make up your minds.

It's clear that the people who dislike Joe are the same ones who didn't, and CAN'T vote? (Isn't that how your BS logic works?)

Quit whining, brats.
 
2010-02-01 01:03:50 PM
Little.Alex: I'm geninly curious; why? Why do you hate some guy, for enforcing the law, doing his job, and honoring his oath of office? Why does that make him evil?

Awfully funny that Joe's methods haven't been adopted by the rest of the country, no?

I wonder why that would be.
 
2010-02-01 01:04:08 PM
degreeless: Enforcing established immigration laws that are already on the books, and creatively punishing criminals with tools that are available with a limited budget in a namby-pansy, soft-on crime America is certainly worthy of putting an internet hit out on America's Sheriff...you should all be ashamed of yourselves....


THIS

/so much brainwashed stupidity in this thread
 
2010-02-01 01:06:18 PM
Little.Alex: Why do you hate some guy, for enforcing the law, doing his job, and honoring his oath of office? Why does that make him evil?

It's not the ends, it's the means that people don't like. For example, one of his men swiping a file during a court hearing. Also sending deputies to people's houses at night to intimidate them (not his word) and various other things he has pulled off. He loves being in the spotlight (a very dangerous thing for a lawman to like, leads to showboating at best) until the spotlight becomes a search light, then he's all "Invasion of privacy."

That's why many don't like him.
 
2010-02-01 01:06:32 PM
Sin_City_Superhero: Little.Alex: Sin_City_Superhero: Is it wrong that I want bad things to happen to Arpaio? For example, I think it'd be just awesome if he were indicted and put in his own jail, pink underwear and all. And make sure all the other inmates know who he is.

I'm geninly curious; why? Why do you hate some guy, for enforcing the law, doing his job, and honoring his oath of office? Why does that make him evil?

Do you feel the same antagonism for all the congressmen who will do nothing about the immigration problem again this month?

I was going to answer you, but the very next post pretty much covered it:

firefly212: it's that he is so extreme that he endangers lives of people who haven't yet gotten a trial, and that he rounds up entire groups of people on the suspicion that some of them might be doing something illegal, though he can't demonstrate any kind of probable cause for that suspicion.


Okay then:
1) Release suspects if no charges are filed.
2) If you have a problem, file a lawsuit - it's not like a legal precedent for false arrest, illegal search and seizure and such hasn't been established...
 
2010-02-01 01:07:23 PM
degreeless: Enforcing established immigration laws that are already on the books, and creatively punishing criminals with tools that are available with a limited budget in a namby-pansy, soft-on crime America is certainly worthy of putting an internet hit out on America's Sheriff...you should all be ashamed of yourselves....

His job isn't to "punish" anyone. Incarceration, yes. Learn the difference before belching forth your next spasm of gibberish.
 
2010-02-01 01:07:43 PM
Shrinkwrap: Your name is amusing. You must be the UFIA administrator.

Assistant. gorgor is the Director.
 
2010-02-01 01:08:53 PM
Little.Alex: Except that almost every police state is a Left Wing operation. Like Cuba, China, WWII Germany, the USSR, East Germany, etc.

You realize that just because the Nazis had "socialist" in their name, that they weren't necessarily left-wing, right?

Police state tactics are not linked to a particular political ideology...they're just about maintaining power for the authorities. It's just that in present-day America, they are usually most often supported by "tough on crime" conservatives, not liberals.

It's not the Right that wants unlimited Government, Retard.

The religious right seems to want much more powerful and invasive government when it comes to enforcing what they see as moral laws. Not every right-winger is a libertarian, and in fact most are not.

If you want unlimited immigration, then ask your government to repeal the laws. Don't blame the cop for doing his job.

If he were doing his job properly, he would arrest himself. My dislike for him has NOTHING to do with views on immigration.
 
2010-02-01 01:10:35 PM
Little.Alex: I'm geninly curious; why? Why do you hate some guy, for enforcing the law, doing his job, and honoring his oath of office? Why does that make him evil?

Specifically, here is why *I* do not like Sheriff Arpaio:
1.) He is costing his county millions. His "crime-stopping" techniques have led to countless lawsuits on human and civil rights grounds without resulting in any meaningful decrease in area crime. He has a private personal office on the county budget for "security" reasons. He has a full-time PR staff! The man is wasting money hand over fist trying to appear to the public as if he's somehow doing better than other law enforcement by being "tougher," when in fact it's costing everybody in that county extra money. What's so conservative about wasting money from the public coffers?

2.) He uses the law as a cudgel. He's leveled false charges and nuisance lawsuits against anyone against him, trying to force silence from his critics. He filed RICO charges against a judge who rightfully slapped down one of his deputies for grossly violating legal procedure, he's put out warrants on his critics in local city governments, and so on and so forth. This is "big government abuse" personified.

3.) The man is likely taking kickbacks as well. He has millions of dollars in property and refuses to even *attempt* to explain how he got the money for it off a county sheriff's salary. Given the reports of corruption from every other aspect of his "law enforcement," I'm inclined to guess that he's either embezzling or taking bribes from someone. Especially since he's in charge of an area that's part of a drug corridor, and yet his "tough stance on the law" has yet to result in any sort of major drug bust there.

Little.Alex: Do you feel the same antagonism for all the congressmen who will do nothing about the immigration problem again this month?

You realize that Arpaio used to be pro-immigrant, right? He switched his stance to win votes without even blinking. If you're supporting him because he's "tough on illegal immigration," you're being used.
 
2010-02-01 01:10:40 PM
TheShavingofOccam123: Bermudez is the one of the most vocal critics of Arpaio. It is fair to look at the kind of people who attack Joe Arpaio for a living.

He's not just a money launderer, an illegal alien for 17 years, twice convicted of crimes and served to sentences for those crimes. You can see what Arpaio's critics sink to by looking at the pic Mr. Bermudez posted of Joe.

Just remember who you're working for. Mr. Bermudez thanks you for your support.


The lot of you need to brush up on your logical fallacies. He is not setting up a strawman, godwinning (not a verb i know), or cherry-picking.

The correct logical fallacy is : The Spotlight Fallacy (new window)
 
2010-02-01 01:11:02 PM
Little.Alex: Except that almost every police state is a Left Wing operation. Like Cuba, China, WWII Germany, the USSR, East Germany, etc.

It's not the Right that wants unlimited Government, Retard.

If you want unlimited immigration, then ask your government to repeal the laws. Don't blame the cop for doing his job.


How was Nazi Germany a left wing operation? Most sources cite it as extremely right-winged.
 
2010-02-01 01:12:10 PM
fernt: degreeless: Enforcing established immigration laws that are already on the books, and creatively punishing criminals with tools that are available with a limited budget in a namby-pansy, soft-on crime America is certainly worthy of putting an internet hit out on America's Sheriff...you should all be ashamed of yourselves....


THIS

/so much brainwashed stupidity in this thread


Does the mirror answer you when you speak to it?
 
2010-02-01 01:14:17 PM
Drakkenmaw: You realize that Arpaio used to be pro-immigrant, right? He switched his stance to win votes without even blinking. If you're supporting him because he's "tough on illegal immigration," you're being used.

http://Little.Alex/ is a troll and he's got y'all good.
 
2010-02-01 01:14:36 PM
incrdbil: Let's see, law enforcement officer who doesn't coddle criminals. cue libtard media rage and bias, which in turn attracts the Fark cop haters like flies..who then appluad threats and violations that they supposedly deplore.

Just another monday.


How about the millions he costs my county in lawsuits, remember those in county jail are awaiting trial and often times end up dead, oddly enough he arrested newspaper reporters for asking such questions


\\\Who else arrested newspaper men
 
2010-02-01 01:15:21 PM
D'oh. How'd that slip in there
 
2010-02-01 01:16:28 PM
8bit4life: Little.Alex: Except that almost every police state is a Left Wing operation. Like Cuba, China, WWII Germany, the USSR, East Germany, etc.

It's not the Right that wants unlimited Government, Retard.

If you want unlimited immigration, then ask your government to repeal the laws. Don't blame the cop for doing his job.

How was Nazi Germany a left wing operation? Most sources cite it as extremely right-winged.


Presentism (new window)

The Oxford English Dictionary gives the first citation for presentism in its historiographic sense from 1916, and the word may have been in use in this meaning as early as the 1870s. Historian David Hackett Fischer identifies presentism as a logical fallacy also known as the "fallacy of nunc pro tunc".
 
2010-02-01 01:17:19 PM
firefly212: incrdbil: Let's see, law enforcement officer who doesn't coddle criminals. cue libtard media rage and bias, which in turn attracts the Fark cop haters like flies..who then appluad threats and violations that they supposedly deplore.

Just another monday.

My problem isn't that he doesn't coddle them, it's that he is so extreme that he endangers lives of people who haven't yet gotten a trial, and that he rounds up entire groups of people on the suspicion that some of them might be doing something illegal, though he can't demonstrate any kind of probable cause for that suspicion.


They must be doing something wrong else why would they get caught up in one of Joe's sweeps?

Or so the boot licking, badge polishing, nightstick gobbling, authority (daddy) figure worshiping, volunteer taser test targets like incrdbil would argue...
 
2010-02-01 01:17:31 PM
kellylowenstein.files.wordpress.com

not amused
 
2010-02-01 01:17:33 PM
Little.Alex: I'm geninly curious; why? Why do you hate some guy, for enforcing the law, doing his job, and honoring his oath of office? Why does that make him evil?

Do you feel the same antagonism for all the congressmen who will do nothing about the immigration problem again this month?


I guess the guys who supported Saban are also cop haters (new window)
 
2010-02-01 01:18:26 PM
006andahalf: D'oh. How'd that slip in there

Yeah, I've heard that before.

/bada boom bada bing
 
2010-02-01 01:19:19 PM
Drakkenmaw: Little.Alex: I'm geninly curious; why? Why do you hate some guy, for enforcing the law, doing his job, and honoring his oath of office? Why does that make him evil?

Specifically, here is why *I* do not like Sheriff Arpaio:
1.) He is costing his county millions. His "crime-stopping" techniques have led to countless lawsuits on human and civil rights grounds without resulting in any meaningful decrease in area crime. He has a private personal office on the county budget for "security" reasons. He has a full-time PR staff! The man is wasting money hand over fist trying to appear to the public as if he's somehow doing better than other law enforcement by being "tougher," when in fact it's costing everybody in that county extra money. What's so conservative about wasting money from the public coffers?

2.) He uses the law as a cudgel. He's leveled false charges and nuisance lawsuits against anyone against him, trying to force silence from his critics. He filed RICO charges against a judge who rightfully slapped down one of his deputies for grossly violating legal procedure, he's put out warrants on his critics in local city governments, and so on and so forth. This is "big government abuse" personified.

3.) The man is likely taking kickbacks as well. He has millions of dollars in property and refuses to even *attempt* to explain how he got the money for it off a county sheriff's salary. Given the reports of corruption from every other aspect of his "law enforcement," I'm inclined to guess that he's either embezzling or taking bribes from someone. Especially since he's in charge of an area that's part of a drug corridor, and yet his "tough stance on the law" has yet to result in any sort of major drug bust there.

Little.Alex: Do you feel the same antagonism for all the congressmen who will do nothing about the immigration problem again this month?

You realize that Arpaio used to be pro-immigrant, right? He switched his stance to win votes without even blinking. If you're supporting him because he's "tough on illegal immigration," you're being used.


You're an awesome mouthpiece for the Anti-Arpaio agenda.
How do you find life as a parrot, devoid of reason?

I say that because all of your claims are accusations - citations? You hate him so much, you show me where your research came from to substantiate your libelous claims...

I think he's been doing a fine job for years.
- Serving Bologna sandwiches and oranges for lunch in jail is not a violation of civil rights. There should NEVER, EVER be FAT inmates.
- Tent cities solve overcrowding.
- Just because you can't out-vote the guy doesn't mean he's corrupt - it means the majority of the voters support the methods and performance of Arpaio. Don't like it? Move. The voting base has overruled you.
 
2010-02-01 01:19:34 PM
God forbid he get kicked out of office for enforcing a law. What kind of lawman is he?
 
2010-02-01 01:20:02 PM
Falcon Hunter: I love how Obama is elected - and it's the will of the people who desire a change from the previous admin.

But let Sheriff Arpaio win an election - and it's corruption, or some other myriad of excuses.

Make up your minds.

It's clear that the people who dislike Joe are the same ones who didn't, and CAN'T vote? (Isn't that how your BS logic works?)

Quit whining, brats.


Actually, If you account for general dislike towards incumbents, the mindset is pretty straight.

That logic works.
 
2010-02-01 01:20:58 PM
bstud:
Presentism (new window)

The Oxford English Dictionary gives the first citation for presentism in its historiographic sense from 1916, and the word may have been in use in this meaning as early as the 1870s. Historian David Hackett Fischer identifies presentism as a logical fallacy also known as the "fallacy of nunc pro tunc".


The claim (recently promulgated by many prominent conservatives) that Nazi Germany was somehow associated with liberalism or the left is much more than just "presentism". It's an outright revisionist lie that is intentionally being pushed as a propaganda tool. In fact, the Nazis HATED leftist ideologies, and gained power in large part due to an alliance with corporate concerns who feared the growing power of the left at the time.
 
2010-02-01 01:21:52 PM
SnakeLee: TheShavingofOccam123: Bermudez is the one of the most vocal critics of Arpaio. It is fair to look at the kind of people who attack Joe Arpaio for a living.

He's not just a money launderer, an illegal alien for 17 years, twice convicted of crimes and served to sentences for those crimes. You can see what Arpaio's critics sink to by looking at the pic Mr. Bermudez posted of Joe.

Just remember who you're working for. Mr. Bermudez thanks you for your support.

You are attacking strawman attacks by using a strawman attack. I strongly doubt that most Arpaio critics are against him because they want to smuggle drug money across the border. That is just asinine. If someone was using Bermudez' points then it would maybe be a valid tactic but nobody is even doing that. Either defend Arpaio's policies or criticize the politics of the other side but just picking out one of the random people against him just shows that you have nothing.

Besides, you should be much more worried about people like Marie Griffin or other people who have valid criticisms. The vast majority of people against him seem to be pretty above the level.


Bermudez is not some random choice. Bermudez heads Immigrants Without Borders, one of the chief organizations fighting for amnesty and against Joe Arpaio. That's why I posted the racist pic that Mr. Bermudez sent out. Bermudez is very much fair game in discussing the true opposition to Joe Arpaio.

You want me to discuss Joe Arpaio. Fine.

1. Joe Arpaio and that well-known racist Janet Napolitano had to go to Washington DC to get someone to take illegal aliens from his offices and from DPS because the ICE officer in charge Medina refused to take in illegal arrestees. Medina was transferred not fired so if you want to find the current hotspot for illegal smuggling and other associated crime, find out where Median is running ICE. I think it is El Paso.

2. Joe Arpaio's deputies are regularly attacked by illegal aliens in custody. A famous case was the attack by an illegal who had been in and out of the justice system for decades. The deputy was stabbed numerous times in the face and neck while escorting his prisoner. I can understand why Arpaio would seek to move illegals out of his jurisdiction.

3. Joe Arpaio's office is one of the few agencies in Arizona that arrests illegal aliens. One of the reasons--besides men like Medina at ICE--Phoenix has been the leading illegal immigrant smuggling capital of the US is because other agencies including the PPD refuse to enforce immigration laws.

4. ICE has a poor record of doing what Joe Arpaio has decided is his duty to do.

The Barack Obama administration and U.S. Department of Homeland Security officials said Thursday that immigration enforcement would be focused more on criminal prosecution of businesses hiring illegal immigrants, and less on workplace raids to pick up undocumented workers.

As above, if PPD wanted all of the illegal aliens taking jobs away from workers, they could arrest all the trespassers at Home Depot, and arrest all the contractors that pull into the parking lot and hire them off the books.
 
2010-02-01 01:23:03 PM
006andahalf: Little.Alex is a troll and he's got y'all good.

I always consider trolls to be nothing but target practice. Someone somewhere on this site may hold a similar opinion to the troll, and by answering the troll with a logical argument I can potentially reach those who identify with the troll's statement without being willing to speak up themselves. If the troll then responds to the logical refutation by degenerating into flaming nonsense, it only further illustrates the value of the counter-argument and could perhaps sway the opinions of an observer.

It's nice of trolls to put forward the opposition's argument for them, so I can debate it without actually having to debate them. People get possessive of the claims they themselves put forward - if I can break down that claim without making them angry and defensive, by using an uninvolved intermediary, so much the better. Trolls are the tools for this.
 
2010-02-01 01:23:33 PM
Mnemia: This Arpaio guy is basically the embodiment of conservative dreams for America. This what they seriously want for our country: police state rule by "tough" warlord-cops. Corruption is okay, because hey, authority figures need to live comfortably in order to show everyone else how "respected" they are. Just look at all the supportive comments on that article.

Wasn't that just on some post-apocalyptic History channel show a couple weeks ago? I think you pretty much described how they envision a post-societal breakdown gated neighborhood.
 
2010-02-01 01:23:34 PM
Hunter_S_Thompson: Last I checked, abortion doctors aren't public servants paid by the taxpayers. When you work for the people, a lot of things that would normally be protected by privacy regulations actually becomes a matter of public record. It only seems to bother the corrupt douchebags.

If it is wrong for one, it is wrong for all.

Look, I don't buy the idea that just because you work for the government your personal life is forfeit. Couldn't your same logic be applied to ALL government employees?

I don't think that these things are right no matter how much I dislike a person, nor should it depend on who employs them.
 
2010-02-01 01:24:56 PM
xen0blue: God forbid he get kicked out of office for illegally enforcing a law. What kind of lawman is he?

FTFY.
 
2010-02-01 01:25:08 PM
Criminals, libtards, and illegals all agree: Sheriff Joe Arpaio is a big meanie.
 
2010-02-01 01:25:30 PM
Mnemia: Doubleodoug: No. I'm willing to follow your rational as it applies to the Republican party, but true conservatism hasn't really changed. Just because someone professes to be part of a group doesn't make it so. Just like that Dr. killer people are talking about up thread probably thinks he is a hero, but that doesn't make it so.

This is pretty close to a "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Like it or not, the meaning shifts once a critical mass of supporters of the philosophy shift their views. This is true of "conservatism", "liberalism", "Christianity", and any other vague and broad grouping. I agree that today's conservatism isn't the same as Barry Goldwater's conservatism, but they're both still the "conservative" movement. I'm sorry that you lost your label, but that ship has sailed.

Likewise, Scott Roeder (the murderer of Dr. Tiller) is a Christian domestic terrorist, because his crime was motivated by his Christianity. It's irrelevant that you might not agree with his views on Christianity, because HE identifies himself as a Christian martyr. (Also, a number of other groups that are motivated by Christian beliefs basically said "yeah, murder is wrong, but we're glad Tiller is dead".)


I'd rather not drag this down to semantics and relative moralities, so can't we just say you're wrong and I'm right?

I'm only kidding, I do see what you are saying and I can really agree with your thoughts on the GOP and the "Conservative Movement", because you are absolutely correct those groups do shift and change.

However when I say conservative, I'm talking strictly about a particular set of ideals not a group or organization. My original dispute was calling Joe a conservative but his actions are simply not conservative. In fact his actions would make him more a "liberal" than conservative just not politically left as "liberalism" is most often identified.
 
2010-02-01 01:26:54 PM
Mnemia: The claim (recently promulgated by many prominent conservatives) that Nazi Germany was somehow associated with liberalism or the left is much more than just "presentism". It's an outright revisionist lie that is intentionally being pushed as a propaganda tool. In fact, the Nazis HATED leftist ideologies, and gained power in large part due to an alliance with corporate concerns who feared the growing power of the left at the time.

My point is that comparing Nazi Germany to either a left or right political philosophy is presentism. Also to say that the Nazis hated leftist ideologies may be true but has no bearing on what is now considered leftist in the current political spectrum. Even saying that they hated liberal ideologies would have no relation to today's liberal philosophies. So even you can be guilty of presentism when arguing for it :D
 
Displayed 50 of 367 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report