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(CNN)   Frank Buckles, the last surviving U.S. WW1 veteran turns 109 today. We will stand on your lawn only so that we may salute you, kind sir   (cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Hero  
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12335 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Feb 2010 at 6:35 AM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-02-01 03:58:17 PM  

DamnYankees: allthebetter: because the german's totally followed the geneva convention when fighting during WWI

They generally did on the Western front. As much as the Allied powers did.

The Ostfront is a whole different story.


citation?
 
2010-02-01 03:59:49 PM  

allthebetter: citation?


You want a citation that they *didn't* break the laws of war as understood back then? Seems like the onus would be on the person saying they did.

They might have, but I'm not aware of it in any large scale.
 
2010-02-01 04:01:17 PM  
Hey, check this out. I wrote some words for the hero tag deniers to read when they pass away. Maybe your descendants may say something along these lines:

"He didn't do anything memorable; didn't run to save anyone; didn't touch anyone's life in a meaningful way; nor did he want to accept other's achievements as anything above the regular. And if he did do any of the above mentioned, it wasn't because he wanted to. He was just a normal guy, no more no less, in the same way all of you attending this service are regular and shall die as regulars with mediocre achievements. Above all, let us remember he was no hero. There's more to read, but lets just leave it at that lest you go home depressed."

... if they do read anything at all.
 
2010-02-01 04:09:51 PM  

Born_Again_Bavarian: PeterPipersPickledPecker: Born_Again_Bavarian: Gwendolyn: DamnYankees: Why is an old soldier a hero? Did he do something heroic?

During the war Buckles served in England and France, driving ambulances and motorcycles for the Army's 1st Fort Riley Casualty Detachment. After the Armistice in 1918, Buckles escorted prisoners of war back to Germany.

In the 1940s Buckles worked for a shipping company in Manila, Philippines. He was captured by the Japanese in 1942 and spent the next three and a half years in the Los Baños prison camp. He became malnourished, with a weight below 100 lb, and developed beriberi, yet led his fellow inmates in calisthenics. He was rescued on February 23, 1945.

Up to you about calling him a hero or not but that's his war record via wikipedia.

There could be more to the story, but nothing in there strikes me as "heroic". I'm more impressed with him living to be 109 while still having a few marbles in his head. What he did/didn't do for a couple years in the early 20th century really isn't that important.

I live with my mom

You waffle between trying to hard and not enough.

Your troll fu is without heart...

Hardly. I am always critical of the "hero" tag. A hero is someone who goes above and beyond.......willingly puts their life/safety/wealth in danger for the benefit of others. Does Mr. Buckles fit this mold? Maybe, although I haven't read anything on it. But simply serving in a war zone does not make one a hero.......besides, I would rather shake this guys hand and ask him about the meaning of life. Anyone that old has probably learned a thing or two over the years.

In closing, get over yourself and your military worship-hangups.

/Military veteran......has a medal for serving in a warzone
//Not a hero because I never actually servered in a warzone



images.elfwood.com
Sad troll is sad...

 
2010-02-01 04:10:05 PM  

allthebetter: DamnYankees: allthebetter: because the german's totally followed the geneva convention when fighting during WWI

They generally did on the Western front. As much as the Allied powers did.

The Ostfront is a whole different story.

citation?


How about a farking citation for where i said he wasn't a hero? Or how about an apology? Ctrl-F is your friend if you can't remember why.
 
2010-02-01 04:11:26 PM  

moondo: Hey, check this out. I wrote some words for the hero tag deniers to read when they pass away. Maybe your descendants may say something along these lines:

"He didn't do anything memorable; didn't run to save anyone; didn't touch anyone's life in a meaningful way; nor did he want to accept other's achievements as anything above the regular. And if he did do any of the above mentioned, it wasn't because he wanted to. He was just a normal guy, no more no less, in the same way all of you attending this service are regular and shall die as regulars with mediocre achievements. Above all, let us remember he was no hero. There's more to read, but lets just leave it at that lest you go home depressed."

... if they do read anything at all.


You can do memorable things and touch people's lives in a meaningful way without being a hero.

The point.
Your head.
 
2010-02-01 04:21:55 PM  

mantabulous: You can do memorable things and touch people's lives in a meaningful way without being a hero.


Oh, that completely changes everything. What was I thinking to write such a thing overlooking the logical flaw that it's possible to do something meaningful without being a hero. BUT what if the motherfarker you saved thinks you're a hero?!! A hero is not something objective. We're fighting in this thread over something that's completely up to personal interpretation. Of course you "can do memorable things and touch people's lives in a meaningful way without being a hero," but you can also "do memorable things and touch people's lives in a meaningful way" while being (considered) a hero. It's just a matter of who's more stubborn, that's all.
 
2010-02-01 04:39:08 PM  
brukmann

tempered by not overreacting to knee-jerk patriotism. His viewpoint seems to be the objective one, not the "doughboys deserve better" "vague assertion that the 109-yr-old would totally BEAT HIS ASS" "projection!" "show some respect, maggot!" bullshiat.

This is what I was commenting on...

I was referring that he was not being designated as a "hero" merely for serving his country, or as you so eloquently put it the "knee-jerking patriotism". He was designated a hero because he did put his life on the line for others.
 
2010-02-01 04:55:24 PM  

superdolfan1: Born_Again_Bavarian:
Hardly. I am always critical of the "hero" tag. A hero is someone who goes above and beyond.......willingly puts their life/safety/wealth in danger for the benefit of others.

/Military veteran......has a medal for serving in a warzone
//Not a hero because I never actually servered in a warzone

You're contradicting yourself.

You say a "hero is someone who goes above and beyond....willingly puts their life/safety/wealth in danger for the benefit of others"

That sentence describes nearly every soldier/sailor/marine/service member out there. By enlisting, they are doing these things, as none of them know where they will be stationed or what their duties will be. Some may be stateside, and one could argue that their lives are safe (exception: See Ft. Hood). Others will be shipped off to a war zone, and may never return.

I don't know why some people, like Damn Yankees and yourself, simply won't accept that some of us feel that those who have served should be called "heroes". What's the big deal?

Thanks for your service to your country. Although you might disagree, I think you are a hero also for doing it.

Accept the compliment, and move on.


What you are missing here is the heroic act. Simply doing a job that you are paid (and ordered to do) under penalty of prison or death doesn't make you a hero.

You should aim a little bit higher in who you look up to.
 
2010-02-01 05:11:01 PM  

allthebetter: brukmann

tempered by not overreacting to knee-jerk patriotism. His viewpoint seems to be the objective one, not the "doughboys deserve better" "vague assertion that the 109-yr-old would totally BEAT HIS ASS" "projection!" "show some respect, maggot!" bullshiat.

This is what I was commenting on...

I was referring that he was not being designated as a "hero" merely for serving his country, or as you so eloquently put it the "knee-jerking patriotism". He was designated a hero because he did put his life on the line for others.


My sentence structure left quite a bit to be desired, so it's not surprising you misinterpreted my meaning. My mistake. I still don't see why you think I was saying he wasn't a hero, but after telling you it's not true, you persist in putting words in my mouth. I don't understand the motivation to try to convince someone of their own words after they have clarified themselves several times, but anyway, I figured out many posts ago you're trying to pick a fight.

The point of my OP was: I observed everyone in the thread had a sentiment to their posts which was almost completely complimentary. There was a baseline of respect and interest toward Buckles, and at the very least a mild presupposition that this man had done something impressive and worthy of admiration.

Now, of course this is Fark, and in every thread like this someone will say, "HERO?! CUZ HE'S A BABYKILLER?!" ...Or some-such awful stuff, probably just to get a reaction, or some overdeveloped sensitivity to violence, or underdeveloped rationality when confronted with the reality of human history.

So I get it, the thread is predictable. What i was questioning was the dog-pile on DamnYankees. He may have been trolling in a very subtle way, or maybe he was feeling extremely objective in the way he wanted to express his thoughts. It is extremely easy to see the way tempers went through the roof in this thread in response to his calm, rational arguments. The problem is obviously knee-jerk patriotism. That's not knee-jerk as in i think it's illogical to be predisposed to think of veterans in a positive light, it's knee-jerk as in flaming the farking shiat out of someone for no reason.
 
2010-02-01 05:12:20 PM  

Born_Again_Bavarian: superdolfan1: Born_Again_Bavarian:
Hardly. I am always critical of the "hero" tag. A hero is someone who goes above and beyond.......willingly puts their life/safety/wealth in danger for the benefit of others.

/Military veteran......has a medal for serving in a warzone
//Not a hero because I never actually servered in a warzone

You're contradicting yourself.

You say a "hero is someone who goes above and beyond....willingly puts their life/safety/wealth in danger for the benefit of others"

That sentence describes nearly every soldier/sailor/marine/service member out there. By enlisting, they are doing these things, as none of them know where they will be stationed or what their duties will be. Some may be stateside, and one could argue that their lives are safe (exception: See Ft. Hood). Others will be shipped off to a war zone, and may never return.

I don't know why some people, like Damn Yankees and yourself, simply won't accept that some of us feel that those who have served should be called "heroes". What's the big deal?

Thanks for your service to your country. Although you might disagree, I think you are a hero also for doing it.

Accept the compliment, and move on.

What you are missing here is the heroic act. Simply doing a job that you are paid (and ordered to do) under penalty of prison or death doesn't make you a hero.

You should aim a little bit higher in who you look up to.


No, I think you are missing the point.

Sure, they are paid and ordered to do a job, but accepting the job in the first place is the heroic act. Not everyone has the courage to do so.

Nobody in the armed forces is there by force. We have a "volunteer army", which means that everyone who signed up for it is completely aware of the repercusions of serving. Although not certain, there is a pretty good chance that a service member might see combat zone duty, which he or she knows going in. By knowing this fact, they are accepting the fact that they may be putting their lives at risk for their boss, which in this case is their country. They are doing something that 98% of the population would never do. Heroic. No doubt about it.

We can even go a step further with just infantry soldiers, which acount for 10% of the above mentioned 2%.

I look up to men and women who act unselfishly to take a chance on dying for their, my, your country. Everyone of them could easily be doing something else, even costing us money by welshing off the system.

Which begs the question: Who do you consider a hero?
 
2010-02-01 05:17:00 PM  

brukmann: What i was questioning was the dog-pile on DamnYankees.


I'd wager that DamnYankees is the one of the most farkied people around, and none of it is complimentary. he has earned such ire not only in this thread, but in scores before. I am embarrassed to have taken the hook this time, but yes, he got to me. He starts the same way every time, with a pointed question, and then rolls into the trolling like it's warm semen. I've never put anyone on ignore, but if I did, he'd be first.
 
2010-02-01 05:17:27 PM  
Born_Again_Bavarian
What you are missing here is the heroic act. Simply doing a job that you are paid (and ordered to do) under penalty of prison or death doesn't make you a hero.


When that job involves saving people while under enemy fire as did this gentleman,then damn straight he's a Hero.


I'll leave this here:

"Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
 
2010-02-01 05:17:44 PM  

R.A.Danny: brukmann: What i was questioning was the dog-pile on DamnYankees.

I'd wager that DamnYankees is the one of the most farkied people around, and none of it is complimentary. he has earned such ire not only in this thread, but in scores before. I am embarrassed to have taken the hook this time, but yes, he got to me. He starts the same way every time, with a pointed question, and then rolls into the trolling like it's warm semen. I've never put anyone on ignore, but if I did, he'd be first.


Sad to hear it. I try to stay cogent. Oh well.
 
2010-02-01 05:20:20 PM  

Born_Again_Bavarian: you are missing here is the heroic act. Simply doing a job that you are paid (and ordered to do) under penalty of prison or death doesn't make you a hero.

You should aim a little bit higher in who you look up to.


So, any act done by people whose jobs are extra risky are not heroic? Are you saying that a hero is someone who's aiming to be a hero? Basically someone who goes out looking for trouble and is actively trying to save people for recognition (ie, to be a hero), but not under any coercion to perform the heroic act? That doesn't really fit my definition of hero. You should stop thinking at the kindergarten Superman hero level and grow up.
 
2010-02-01 05:39:20 PM  

brukmann: allthebetter: brukmann

tempered by not overreacting to knee-jerk patriotism. His viewpoint seems to be the objective one, not the "doughboys deserve better" "vague assertion that the 109-yr-old would totally BEAT HIS ASS" "projection!" "show some respect, maggot!" bullshiat.

This is what I was commenting on...

I was referring that he was not being designated as a "hero" merely for serving his country, or as you so eloquently put it the "knee-jerking patriotism". He was designated a hero because he did put his life on the line for others.

My sentence structure left quite a bit to be desired, so it's not surprising you misinterpreted my meaning. My mistake. I still don't see why you think I was saying he wasn't a hero, but after telling you it's not true, you persist in putting words in my mouth. I don't understand the motivation to try to convince someone of their own words after they have clarified themselves several times, but anyway, I figured out many posts ago you're trying to pick a fight.

The point of my OP was: I observed everyone in the thread had a sentiment to their posts which was almost completely complimentary. There was a baseline of respect and interest toward Buckles, and at the very least a mild presupposition that this man had done something impressive and worthy of admiration.

Now, of course this is Fark, and in every thread like this someone will say, "HERO?! CUZ HE'S A BABYKILLER?!" ...Or some-such awful stuff, probably just to get a reaction, or some overdeveloped sensitivity to violence, or underdeveloped rationality when confronted with the reality of human history.

So I get it, the thread is predictable. What i was questioning was the dog-pile on DamnYankees. He may have been trolling in a very subtle way, or maybe he was feeling extremely objective in the way he wanted to express his thoughts. It is extremely easy to see the way tempers went through the roof in this thread in response to his calm, rational arguments. The problem is obviously knee-jerk patriotism. That's not knee-jerk as in i think it's illogical to be predisposed to think of veterans in a positive light, it's knee-jerk as in flaming the farking shiat out of someone for no reason.


I can see that...I apologize for taking your OP out of context, I do get tired of people continually insisting however that it takes something internationally noteworthy to reach hero status...

I am more of the crowd that he might not be a hero to everyone, but he might be a hero to someone...
 
2010-02-01 05:41:37 PM  

MonkeyButton: DamnYankees: I also have a problem attaching labels like "hero" to soldiers because it differentiates them from us. The reality of war is that the people who go over there to these foreign lands and do unspeakable things, some that live to tell and some dont, are regular people. They are just like you and me. To call them "heros" en masse is to separate us from them, to detatch their experiences from our own.

I'd much rather treat Mr. Buckles as a fellow human being on my own level, with interest and respect, and learn from what he has to say. I have no interest in worshipping the man, and I doubt he'd want me to anyway.

I see you took a break, came back to see if your "friends" missed you. You're a fag. Of course you were raised an Orthodox Jew. Of course you're an atheist. Of course you're from Berkeley. Of course you're in law school and of course, you spend way too much time on Fark. You nebbishy little cock chugger.


/Monkeybutton, I knew I had you favorited for good reason!


//people like DY need to learn the definition of the word "empathy"
///and also need to spend some time in a foxhole or two
////it's not a matter of hero-worship--it's a matter of RESPECT for someone who risked his life for this country, while YOUR farking ancestors were probably busy figuring out how to qualify as 4-F.

PRICK.
 
2010-02-01 05:43:47 PM  

Adingo8mybb: //people like DY need to learn the definition of the word "empathy"


Empathy is the ability to share the feelings of another.

How have I misdefined it?

Adingo8mybb: ////it's not a matter of hero-worship--it's a matter of RESPECT for someone who risked his life for this country, while YOUR farking ancestors were probably busy figuring out how to qualify as 4-F.


Really? You want to go there? My grandfather was in the Pacific War and was stranded on an island where god knows how many of his friends died. My grandmother was too busy escaping Germany because she happened to be Jewish to really do much warfare.

You really don't want to be going after people's families, dude.
 
2010-02-01 05:46:07 PM  

DamnYankees: You really don't want to be going after people's families, dude.


You don't even know what a dude is.
 
2010-02-01 05:46:35 PM  

R.A.Danny: DamnYankees: You really don't want to be going after people's families, dude.

You don't even know what a dude is.


I know what a dude is, guy.
 
2010-02-01 06:05:11 PM  

DamnYankees: Really? You want to go there? My grandfather was in the Pacific War and was stranded on an island where god knows how many of his friends died. My grandmother was too busy escaping Germany because she happened to be Jewish to really do much warfare.

You really don't want to be going after people's families, dude.


After basically ruining the thread that's trying to pay respect to this WWI veteran in an uplifting way, you say someone shouldn't be going after people's families? Dude? I mean, I'm sorry you don't consider your regular grandfather a hero and that your grandmother had a hard time because of the stupid war back in the day, but they would probably want you to just admit the 'hero' tag was appropriate for this old fellow after all. It's just an ego battle.
 
2010-02-01 06:16:09 PM  
Never mind him R.A., I could care less what gender this little pisher thinks I am...


/for the record I am ALL woman.
//Sorry I let this attention-whoring little nebbish derail me from saluting Frank Buckles on his birthday.
 
2010-02-01 06:32:03 PM  

Adingo8mybb: MonkeyButton: DamnYankees: I also have a problem attaching labels like "hero" to soldiers because it differentiates them from us. The reality of war is that the people who go over there to these foreign lands and do unspeakable things, some that live to tell and some dont, are regular people. They are just like you and me. To call them "heros" en masse is to separate us from them, to detatch their experiences from our own.

I'd much rather treat Mr. Buckles as a fellow human being on my own level, with interest and respect, and learn from what he has to say. I have no interest in worshipping the man, and I doubt he'd want me to anyway.

I see you took a break, came back to see if your "friends" missed you. You're a fag. Of course you were raised an Orthodox Jew. Of course you're an atheist. Of course you're from Berkeley. Of course you're in law school and of course, you spend way too much time on Fark. You nebbishy little cock chugger.

/Monkeybutton, I knew I had you favorited for good reason!

//people like DY need to learn the definition of the word "empathy"
///and also need to spend some time in a foxhole or two
////it's not a matter of hero-worship--it's a matter of RESPECT for someone who risked his life for this country, while YOUR farking ancestors were probably busy figuring out how to qualify as 4-F.

PRICK.



Have you and your two friends spent much time in a foxhole?
 
2010-02-01 08:27:55 PM  

brukmann: SilverStag: My grandfather, Erick Philip Jern (1892-1978), in 1919 after the end of the war. I still miss him.

That's nice; was his nickname 'Ebie' or something? I'm trying to read that script, but it doesn't look like Erick.


He went by 'Phil' ...
 
2010-02-01 10:27:14 PM  

SilverStag: brukmann: SilverStag: My grandfather, Erick Philip Jern (1892-1978), in 1919 after the end of the war. I still miss him.

That's nice; was his nickname 'Ebie' or something? I'm trying to read that script, but it doesn't look like Erick.

He went by 'Phil' ...


HA! I'm dumb.
 
2010-02-02 12:01:58 AM  
But yet, our local daily paper - the one that covers Charles Town, WV, The Martinsburg Journal (aka "The Urinal") couldn't be bothered to run anything. Which is surprising, considering how pro-war that paper is. I'll have to check out the Spirit of Jefferson County (the weekly paper) when it comes out on Thursday.

While I think the whole "every soldier is a hero" is BS - reference the recent cases of soldiers who killed their wives and ran off to Mexico or lured young women into the barracks for drugs and sex only to leave them lay dying, I think Frank IS a hero.

I've met him a number of times and even been to his residence; he and my grandparents (both of whom are deceased, having been born in 1908 and 1909, though not until 1997 and 2002) were friends.
 
2010-02-02 12:15:34 AM  

moresugar: Story: You know who else was a WWI Ambulance Driver?
Ernest Hemmingway? Cole Porter?


Yes, yes and the photo was of...

Walt Disney.
 
2010-02-02 12:51:07 AM  
Frank Buckles sounds like a Clint Eastwood character.
 
2010-02-02 01:02:57 AM  

Story: Walt Disney.


Talk about your Godwins...

;)
 
2010-02-02 01:07:04 AM  
So, the old war veteran was about to celebrate his first birthday since he'd been put in the nursing home, and some of his buddies decided to cheer him up with a really great gift.

There was a knock at the veteran's door, and in came a hot leggy dame with boobs that could be mistaken for small blimps. She slides up to the veteran and puts her hands all over him adoringly. She coos "Happy birthday, lucky boy! I'm here to give you super sex!".

The toothless old veteran mashes his gums for a minute, then says in a feeble voice... "I reckon... i'll have the soup, then."
 
2010-02-02 04:52:58 AM  

Slaxl: This thread is ridiculous, yes the guy is a hero but there's no harm in questioning why. And I can see DamnYankees's point, merely serving is of itself no guarantee of heroism, and no, a 109 year old, no matter how much respect I have for him, can beat up anyone on Fark, except maybe a 13 year old liter. Uh oh, just remembered my subscription expired so I'm a liter now too, but i'm not 13 damnit!

Secondly please don't start an argument over who won what war, it's so pathetic when people think they can make sweeping statements and take into account none of the global scale of the whole struggle and the dozens of countries which helped significantly. You can take one facet of the war and expand it and produce a perfectly acceptable sounding theory on how it was the single most important result for victory, but then you're missing the whole picture. You can no more say the Americans won WW2 than you can back the Russians entirely, one without the other would not have succeeded, and if the British had fallen then the Americans would have had huge difficulty in supplying Russia and invading Europe. Every country that played its part played it well, and they all complemented each other and worked together for victory, and that is why they are known as the Allies, or the United Nations. Don't try and fracture it now.


THIS x10

The man drove an ambulance through hostile territory possibly saving hundreds of lives. He definitely deserves to be called a hero.
 
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