jimi32: IlGreven: eggi541: Odd you should mention the first and only semi-safe vaccine in use.

"Oh, well that one's safe, but the rest!"

"Smallpox?"

"Okay, that one too, but!"

"Is autism > measles, mumps, rubella, dipththeria, tetanus, and typhoid?"

"Uhh...uhh...YES IT IS, DAMMIT! STOP FORCING YOUR INOCULATIONS DOWN OUR THROATS!"

Smallpox vaccine itches like a biatch...glad it didn't kill me...

Mine spread. Made me sick and weak for 3 weeks.

Guess what? It was also completely unnecessary too.

Bucky Katt: jingks: uncletogie: The world is flat... flat, I tell you!

Until you reach the end... then it's turtles.

Is it turtles all the way down?

Of course not, you daft fool. The turtle doesn't need anything to stand on. It can swim. That's what turtles are for.

This guy, along with his mouthbreathing "celebrity" (using the term loosely indeed) followers probably killed and maimed more kids than Osama.

tuna fingers: Fine.
Question nothing. Your doctor knows best. So does that other one that you have to go to know since your employer switched policies. He's got good advice. So does that school board. They're full of good advice too.
Question nothing.

YOU TEH SCHMARTS!!!!

...aaaaaaaaand ignore.

Mr. Breeze: jimi32: Smallpox vaccine itches like a biatch...glad it didn't kill me...

Mine spread. Made me sick and weak for 3 weeks.

Guess what? It was also completely unnecessary too.

Wait, I thought that all vaccines were very good, and that anyone who didn't get fully vaccinated was an illogical idiot. Are you saying that we should exercise some judgment in deciding which vaccines our kids should get?

drjekel_mrhyde: eggi541: ThunderPelvis: These f*cking idiots are worse than Birthers. Pig-headed morons, the lot of them.

eggi541: Just because this quack might have fudged a few things does not make all vaccines 100% safe.

Citation needed. No one is saying that, and it's obviously not the case. The point is that vaccines are statistically much, much safer than the diseases they treat. When's the last time you had polio? Never? Hmm, wonder how that happened?

Odd you should mention the first and only semi-safe vaccine in use. People in my age group are being told that we need to be revaccinated due to a manufacturing problem. Keep in mind Polio was not airborne, it is doubtful that one can get it as easily today as 80 years ago being as there are few open water places to swim that aren't already full of stuff much more harmful than polio.

I am not a drum banger that says don't vaccinate. I appreciate what the old proven vaccines can do for Society. I am very leery of the new ones that do not have a generation or two of history behind them. Will I allow my daughters to be vaccinated with the new HPV vaccine? Heck NO. not enough history as to the effectiveness and safety of it, nor enough data supporting the NEED for it.

You might want to think twice about that
Link (new window)

12,000 people in the US get cervical cancer each year. That's .00004% of the population. Not really a great risk.

Now, out of 26 million doses of Gardisil distributed, 15,000 have experienced side effects, with 7% of those being considered serious. Basically if you get your kid vaxed with this stuff they have a 5% chance of getting sick and if they do it's a 7% chance of being seriously ill (long term.) Overall, also not a great risk.

See, it really doesn't matter if your kid is vaccinated or not. The risk is not that great.

The real thing that bothers me about the CDC, the FDA and vaccine manufacturers is how they are NEVER in the wrong. They never admit to a mistake and likely never will even if there is one, which I am sure there has been. (Anthrax vaccine) The CDC and FDA, both government run institutions, and vaccine manufacturers which are big businesses looking out only for $$, are difficult to trust. No matter the circumstance, whether they are in the right or wrong, things will always work out their way.

Take this for an example. Burn pit exposure experienced by Soldiers in Iraq. The amount of people experiencing side effects (myself included) is staggering yet the EPA and the military all insist that it's perfectly safe. By their logic, any pollution is perfectly safe if living downwind from a pit used to burn anything from wood, to plastic and tires is safe.

Stuff like this is what makes it difficult to trust any data the CDC or FDA comes out with.

Starry Heavens: Mr. Breeze: jimi32: Smallpox vaccine itches like a biatch...glad it didn't kill me...

Mine spread. Made me sick and weak for 3 weeks.

Guess what? It was also completely unnecessary too.

Wait, I thought that all vaccines were very good, and that anyone who didn't get fully vaccinated was an illogical idiot. Are you saying that we should exercise some judgment in deciding which vaccines our kids should get?

Again I'm wondering if you're just trolling for the lulz, but do you have any idea about smallpox vaccinations? Since... 1977, I believe, there hasn't been a reported case of smallopox in the US, possibly the world. The only existing versions of the virus are in bioweapons' labs in the US, Russia, and a few other countries (potentially.) The US military still receives the vaccine for smallpox in limited contexts, because of concerns that a weaponized version of smallpox could be used as a terrorist/military bioweapon.

RenownedCurator: WhyteRaven74 Measles encephalitis doesn't have to kill you to fark your life up thoroughly. I was acquainted with a kid growing up (he'd be in his early thirties now) who caught measles at the age of four. It turned into encephalitis. He survived, but this previously normal four-year-old became severely and permanently retarded; little to no speech, drooling all the time, threw tantrums at the drop of a hat, little prospect of any improvement. You can bet my kids got the MMR as soon as possible.

You mean measles encephalitis gave him...autism?

/GASP! THE IRONY! THE IRON...KNEE!

Bucky Katt: jingks: uncletogie: The world is flat... flat, I tell you!

Until you reach the end... then it's turtles.

Is it turtles all the way down?

Turtles which get flatter as you go. To be fair, it is an awful lot of turtles, with an entire world on top.

IlGreven Yeah, I've had that thought since; frankly, he might have been better off autistic; they at least have the full use of their limbs, usually. This happened well before the Wakefield scare, so his parents weren't afraid of autism. They just didn't get around to vaccinating him and he got phenomenally unlucky.

scalpod: Turtles which get flatter as you go. To be fair, it is an awful lot of turtles, with an entire world on top.

...but what's under the flattest turtle?

Mnemia: tuna fingers: Exactly how is it not analogous to antibiotic overuse!
Call me stupid, fine?
But explain how it is not analogous to antibiotic overuse.

It's not analogous in that the two things have nothing at all in common?

Antibiotics directly kill bacteria, which can then evolve resistance if some of them survive and are passed on.

Vaccines do NOT directly kill viruses or bacteria. Instead, they expose the immune system to the "appearance" of the pathogen so that if it later encounters the real thing, it will be able to quickly deal with it and prevent infection. There is nothing for the viruses to evolve resistance to, although obviously they are still evolving.

Sorry, you obviously work for "Big Pharma," so Tuna Brain doesn't have to pay attention to you.

uncletogie: scalpod: Turtles which get flatter as you go. To be fair, it is an awful lot of turtles, with an entire world on top.

...but what's under the flattest turtle?

turtles... all the way down

Anodos: Again I'm wondering if you're just trolling for the lulz, but do you have any idea about smallpox vaccinations? Since... 1977, I believe, there hasn't been a reported case of smallopox in the US, possibly the world.

That was my Boobies in this thread, so the "again" doesn't apply, but yes, I was "trolling" in the sense of being sarcastic. It is foolish to get every vaccine in existence, such as smallpox which no longer exists so the tiny risk of getting the vaccine outweighs the non-existent risk of getting smallpox.

Other vaccines, such as chickenpox, are controversial due to claims that immunity wears out faster from the vaccine, increasing the odds of getting chickenpox as an adult instead. The chickenpox vaccine, then, becomes a balancing act of the potential for full eradication, the risk of getting shingles due to getting chickenpox, and the risk of getting chickenpox as an adult. (Disclaimer: I'm working off hearsay about that vaccine, since they didn't have it when I was a kid and I don't have children of my own, so I haven't read up on it myself. Still, the concern seems plausible.)

There's really no need for everyone to get every vaccine in existence the first month it comes out. There are occasional issues with vaccines; that's why they're researched so thoroughly before being made mandatory.

There's nothing wrong with learning about a medical procedure before you decide to have it done to you. If nothing else, it's good practice for if you're ever faced with several different possible treatments with different efficacies and side effects, such as chemo, radiation, and surgery. Vaccines are so common as to seem completely harmless, but I wouldn't take any pill or shot I hadn't looked up myself first, unless my life depended on it at that very moment.

uncletogie: scalpod: Turtles which get flatter as you go. To be fair, it is an awful lot of turtles, with an entire world on top.

...but what's under the flattest turtle?

DO NOT QUESTION OUR LORD AND SAVIOR! Goddidit, and that's all that matters!

/Also the answer to "who created God?"

IlGreven: RenownedCurator: WhyteRaven74 Measles encephalitis doesn't have to kill you to fark your life up thoroughly. I was acquainted with a kid growing up (he'd be in his early thirties now) who caught measles at the age of four. It turned into encephalitis. He survived, but this previously normal four-year-old became severely and permanently retarded; little to no speech, drooling all the time, threw tantrums at the drop of a hat, little prospect of any improvement. You can bet my kids got the MMR as soon as possible.

You mean measles encephalitis gave him...autism?

/GASP! THE IRONY! THE IRON...KNEE!

I know you're only messing around but autism isn't the same as brain damage. It's a syndrome of social dysfunction, not obviously organic (parts of their brains aren't missing or individually broken) and seems to be strongly genetic in origin. The whole system just doesn't seem to work at a higher level like a normal brain.

zabadu: Mnemia: verbal_jizm: While my father was dealing with his leg feeling as though it were covered in hot sauce, angry fire ants, and hydrochloric acid (he got shingles in his sciatic bundle) I think he would have appreciated a chicken pox vaccine when he was a kid.

Agreed. I suspect a lot of people with shingles would curse the name of a parent who denied them a vaccine that could have prevented it for no reason.

So would my mother. And three of my friends. And since I had the chicken pox, I'm scared that I'll get shingles too.

You know there's a shingles vaccine, right?

Starry Heavens: Anodos: Again I'm wondering if you're just trolling for the lulz, but do you have any idea about smallpox vaccinations? Since... 1977, I believe, there hasn't been a reported case of smallopox in the US, possibly the world.

That was my Boobies in this thread, so the "again" doesn't apply, but yes, I was "trolling" in the sense of being sarcastic. It is foolish to get every vaccine in existence, such as smallpox which no longer exists so the tiny risk of getting the vaccine outweighs the non-existent risk of getting smallpox.

Other vaccines, such as chickenpox, are controversial due to claims that immunity wears out faster from the vaccine, increasing the odds of getting chickenpox as an adult instead. The chickenpox vaccine, then, becomes a balancing act of the potential for full eradication, the risk of getting shingles due to getting chickenpox, and the risk of getting chickenpox as an adult. (Disclaimer: I'm working off hearsay about that vaccine, since they didn't have it when I was a kid and I don't have children of my own, so I haven't read up on it myself. Still, the concern seems plausible.)

There's really no need for everyone to get every vaccine in existence the first month it comes out. There are occasional issues with vaccines; that's why they're researched so thoroughly before being made mandatory.

There's nothing wrong with learning about a medical procedure before you decide to have it done to you. If nothing else, it's good practice for if you're ever faced with several different possible treatments with different efficacies and side effects, such as chemo, radiation, and surgery. Vaccines are so common as to seem completely harmless, but I wouldn't take any pill or shot I hadn't looked up myself first, unless my life depended on it at that very moment.

Yeah... varicella (the chickenpox vaccine) came out after I was already more or less too old to get it, and my family ended up catching the illness (mildest case the nurses had seen, for me, a really bad case, for my little brother) but I do remember hearing that it may have been kind of overkill as far as vaccines go. I don't think it's required universally, although maybe in some states/localities. You make a good point, though, about healthy scepticism. There is certainly a world of difference between looking up the efficacy and side effects of vaccines or treatments for disease and denying your kids important, potentially lifesaving immunizations because of an uncorroborated allegation that vaccines in general (since the thimerosal (sp?) issue came to light as irrelevant in childhood vaccines since the '90s) have caused widespread "autism outbreaks" instead of it being the result of later births, more neurogenetically similar people having kids (the "numbers-smart parents, more autistic kids" theory,) a host of environmental chemicals, or pre-natal environment from a chemical perspective. Sorry for misreading your sarcasm as a troll.

Anodos: Starry Heavens: Mr. Breeze: jimi32: Smallpox vaccine itches like a biatch...glad it didn't kill me...

Mine spread. Made me sick and weak for 3 weeks.

Guess what? It was also completely unnecessary too.

Wait, I thought that all vaccines were very good, and that anyone who didn't get fully vaccinated was an illogical idiot. Are you saying that we should exercise some judgment in deciding which vaccines our kids should get?

Again I'm wondering if you're just trolling for the lulz, but do you have any idea about smallpox vaccinations? Since... 1977, I believe, there hasn't been a reported case of smallopox in the US, possibly the world. The only existing versions of the virus are in bioweapons' labs in the US, Russia, and a few other countries (potentially.) The US military still receives the vaccine for smallpox in limited contexts, because of concerns that a weaponized version of smallpox could be used as a terrorist/military bioweapon.

That's why I got stuck with the smallpox vaccine. Unfounded government fear it might be used in Iraq.

SpeckledJim: IlGreven: RenownedCurator: WhyteRaven74 Measles encephalitis doesn't have to kill you to fark your life up thoroughly. I was acquainted with a kid growing up (he'd be in his early thirties now) who caught measles at the age of four. It turned into encephalitis. He survived, but this previously normal four-year-old became severely and permanently retarded; little to no speech, drooling all the time, threw tantrums at the drop of a hat, little prospect of any improvement. You can bet my kids got the MMR as soon as possible.

You mean measles encephalitis gave him...autism?

/GASP! THE IRONY! THE IRON...KNEE!

I know you're only messing around but autism isn't the same as brain damage. It's a syndrome of social dysfunction, not obviously organic (parts of their brains aren't missing or individually broken) and seems to be strongly genetic in origin. The whole system just doesn't seem to work at a higher level like a normal brain.

It's actually kind of a fascinating phenomenon with tragic human-suffering results. Somewhat similarly to clinical depression, there are studies and other sources of evidence that both autism and depression (which tends to cluster genetically) are the result of the brain functions that allow for human "sentience" in the first place, and for complex problem solving.

Not that every mutation confers an "advantage," but it makes sense from a natural selection perspective, especially when you add "artificial" selection pressures in post-agricultural human populations. (I'd be interested at statistics of manifestation rates of autism and severe clinical depression in up-to-the-modern-era hunter-gatherer populations, to see if there were a correlated smaller number of cases per every 10000 people or what have you.)

Anodos: Sorry for misreading your sarcasm as a troll.

No problem! I was certainly being less than couth while making fun of the idea that all vaccines are necessary at all times. And, yeah, the idea of vaccinations leading to autism has been so thoroughly disproved that trolling definitely starts to seem like a possibility for that one.

Mr. Breeze: "The real thing that bothers me about the CDC, the FDA and vaccine manufacturers is how they are NEVER in the wrong. They never admit to a mistake and likely never will even if there is one, which I am sure there has been."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you a conservative Christian? If so, were you aware of the irony in this statement as you wrote it, or has it only just hit you?

IlGreven: uncletogie: scalpod: Turtles which get flatter as you go. To be fair, it is an awful lot of turtles, with an entire world on top.

...but what's under the flattest turtle?

DO NOT QUESTION OUR LORD AND SAVIOR! Goddidit, and that's all that matters!

/Also the answer to "who created God?"

-chuckle- Cute, but I've yet to give anyone that answer to "Who created God?"... 'specially since He asked us to be a little cynical at times.

If you believe in some sort of deity, great. If not, great. The debates here crack me up, and I rarely jump in once I realized it's the same posters yelling the same things over and over... with all sides claiming they "won" the debate.

nice try though. ;)

Burn_Atlanta: zabadu: Mnemia: verbal_jizm: While my father was dealing with his leg feeling as though it were covered in hot sauce, angry fire ants, and hydrochloric acid (he got shingles in his sciatic bundle) I think he would have appreciated a chicken pox vaccine when he was a kid.

Agreed. I suspect a lot of people with shingles would curse the name of a parent who denied them a vaccine that could have prevented it for no reason.

So would my mother. And three of my friends. And since I had the chicken pox, I'm scared that I'll get shingles too.

You know there's a shingles vaccine, right?

Oh, so there is! I'll have to remember that in a decade or two. It's only 50% effective by the numbers, but that's better than nothing. Shingles is a biatch if it gets into a big nerve (like a whole limb).

Zamboro: Mr. Breeze: "The real thing that bothers me about the CDC, the FDA and vaccine manufacturers is how they are NEVER in the wrong. They never admit to a mistake and likely never will even if there is one, which I am sure there has been."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you a conservative Christian? If so, were you aware of the irony in this statement as you wrote it, or has it only just hit you?

Good diversion. Yes I am a moderately conservative Christian, but my views on what is preached in church and what is written in the Bible are what you might call progressive. I also don't use my religious views to look down on someone elses spirituality, political views, life choices or anything else that makes them different from me. I am of the belief that Christians shoot themselves in the foot each time they focus energy on passing judgement on others instead of using acceptance and forgiveness as tools to prosthelytize our faith. I believe that Christians are often wrong in many many ways, but I am not about to change my faith based on the misguided viewpoints of others. I know the basis of the Christian faith and what is needed to get to heaven (as Christans like myself see it), and I strive to be a better person. Not only for personal needs, but to effectively help others find the right path, or what I see as the right path anyway.

Mr. Breeze: The real thing that bothers me about the CDC, the FDA and vaccine manufacturers is how they are NEVER in the wrong. They never admit to a mistake and likely never will even if there is one, which I am sure there has been"

I do not know what planet you are from, but the fact is that the FDA has screwed up before, and vaccine manufacturers have screwed up before, and guess what? THEY ADMITTED TO IT! You might want to start with DTP (new window).

Long story short, there was a trivalent vaccine against Diptheria, Tetanus and Pertussis. The Pertussis part of the vaccine contained whole cells, which caused big bad reactions in a small, small (1 in 140,000 recipients!). So what happened? Did big pharma keep doing buisiness as usual? NO! In 2002, the vaccine was pulled from the market, Other vaccine companies made a safer version of the vaccine, and guess what? That really sounds like the statement "the CDC, the FDA and vaccine manufacturers are NEVER in the wrong."

Mr. Breeze: Christians shoot themselves in the foot each time they focus energy on passing judgement on others

Contradiction of the whole doctrine. It's a sideline though, you should never have risen to that bait. Religion has nothing to do with cost/benefit on disease and immunization.

Commissar_Murphy: Mr. Breeze: The real thing that bothers me about the CDC, the FDA and vaccine manufacturers is how they are NEVER in the wrong. They never admit to a mistake and likely never will even if there is one, which I am sure there has been"


Long story short, there was a trivalent vaccine against Diptheria, Tetanus and Pertussis. The Pertussis part of the vaccine contained whole cells, which caused big bad reactions in a small, small (1 in 140,000 recipients!). So what happened? Did big pharma keep doing buisiness as usual? NO! In 2002, the vaccine was pulled from the market, ."

Based on that, why is Gardasil not being pulled from the market. It causes severe reactions in 1 of every 26,000 recipients. (That's a 7% severe reaction rate of the ~15,000 negative reactions) At the very least I hope they are researching it.

Sure the CDC and FDA are in the wrong, but they sure as hell like to downplay the hell out of it.

SpeckledJim: Mr. Breeze: Christians shoot themselves in the foot each time they focus energy on passing judgement on others

Contradiction of the whole doctrine. It's a sideline though, you should never have risen to that bait. Religion has nothing to do with cost/benefit on disease and immunization.

No it doesn't, and I don't know how he came to such a quick conclusion about my religious and political preferences. And I'll admit it took me a second what he was trying to compare. I just get a little defensive when I'm called out like that, just like everyone else.

Hi Farkers,

Since my headline got redlighted, I thought I'd take a tiny related threadjack to send you to 10:23 (poppy!), where a bunch of people will be swallowing a whole bottle of homeopathic pills to demonstrate that there's "Nothing in it".

Thanks for clicking.
Meddie.

Mr. Breeze: Now, out of 26 million doses of Gardisil distributed, 15,000 have experienced side effects, with 7% of those being considered serious. Basically if you get your kid vaxed with this stuff they have a 5% chance of getting sick and if they do it's a 7% chance of being seriously ill (long term.) Overall, also not a great risk.

You're misinterpreting those numbers. Those are merely the raw number of VAERS reports (I know because I suspected that's what they were, as the number seemed way too high, and looked it up to confirm). They are not numbers collected in a scientifically controlled way, and the vast majority of those reports are likely not actually caused by the vaccine. They are merely reports of some negative thing happening after receiving the vaccine...which isn't actual evidence that the vaccine caused said negative thing, by itself. You see, if people are paranoid about bad things happening after getting the HPV vaccine, they will interpret all kinds of things as being "caused" by it, even things that happened much later. Also, when you administer a drug or vaccine to 26 million people, just statistically a lot of people will randomly get sick or whatever the next day. It's just stochastic noise, which is why you have to be very careful about how you interpret such numbers. VAERS is basically just a surveillance system, not a scientific study. It merely points to things that scientists might want to look at as possible problems.

Anyway, I don't mean to really argue with you, as you weren't using that to claim that vaccines were particularly dangerous. I just wanted to make sure that everyone understood that the HPV vaccine isn't actually anywhere near as dangerous as those numbers would suggest.

Mr. Breeze: Based on that, why is Gardasil not being pulled from the market. It causes severe reactions in 1 of every 26,000 recipients. (That's a 7% severe reaction rate of the ~15,000 negative reactions) At the very least I hope they are researching it.

Sure the CDC and FDA are in the wrong, but they sure as hell like to downplay the hell out of it.

Read my last post. I was typing it while you commented.

Source for my last post: CDC website

I quote:

"A major limitation of VAERS data is that there is no proven causal association between the vaccine and the adverse event. The only association is in time, meaning that the adverse event occurred sometime after vaccination. Therefore, we cannot conclude that the events reported to VAERS were caused by the vaccine."

Also:


"All serious reports (7%) for Gardasil have been carefully analyzed by medical experts. Experts have not found a common medical pattern to the reports of serious adverse events reported for Gardasil that would suggest that they were caused by the vaccine. The following is a summary of selected serious adverse event reports that were submitted to VAERS between June 8, 2006 and September 1, 2009."

and:


"As of September 1, 2009, there have been 44 U.S. reports of death among females who have received the vaccine. Twenty seven of these reports have been confirmed and 17 remain unconfirmed due to no identifiable patient information in the report such as a name and contact information to confirm the report. Confirmed reports are those that scientists have followed up on and have verified the claim. In the 27 reports confirmed, there was no unusual pattern or clustering to the deaths that would suggest that they were caused by the vaccine."

As you can see, the people who make claims about how "dangerous" the HPV vaccine is are basically full of shiat. Most have an agenda (either anti-vax, or religious bullshiat).

Mr. Breeze: SpeckledJim: Mr. Breeze: Christians shoot themselves in the foot each time they focus energy on passing judgement on others

Contradiction of the whole doctrine. It's a sideline though, you should never have risen to that bait. Religion has nothing to do with cost/benefit on disease and immunization.

No it doesn't, and I don't know how he came to such a quick conclusion about my religious and political preferences. And I'll admit it took me a second what he was trying to compare. I just get a little defensive when I'm called out like that, just like everyone else.

It's a label thing. People like to categorize, particularly in arguments because people don't like being categorized - it gets a rise out of them and they stop arguing on logical terms.

SpeckledJim: Mr. Breeze: SpeckledJim: Mr. Breeze: Christians shoot themselves in the foot each time they focus energy on passing judgement on others

Contradiction of the whole doctrine. It's a sideline though, you should never have risen to that bait. Religion has nothing to do with cost/benefit on disease and immunization.

No it doesn't, and I don't know how he came to such a quick conclusion about my religious and political preferences. And I'll admit it took me a second what he was trying to compare. I just get a little defensive when I'm called out like that, just like everyone else.

It's a label thing. People like to categorize, particularly in arguments because people don't like being categorized - it gets a rise out of them and they stop arguing on logical terms.

You've got a good point. I haven't been on Fark long compared to many others, but it doesn't take long to realize that people start attacking each other personally about 2 to 3 pages into a thread and the whole thing disintegrates from there.

Mnemia: Source for my last post: CDC website

I quote:

"A major limitation of VAERS data is that there is no proven causal association between the vaccine and the adverse event. The only association is in time, meaning that the adverse event occurred sometime after vaccination. Therefore, we cannot conclude that the events reported to VAERS were caused by the vaccine."

Also:


"All serious reports (7%) for Gardasil have been carefully analyzed by medical experts. Experts have not found a common medical pattern to the reports of serious adverse events reported for Gardasil that would suggest that they were caused by the vaccine. The following is a summary of selected serious adverse event reports that were submitted to VAERS between June 8, 2006 and September 1, 2009."

and:


"As of September 1, 2009, there have been 44 U.S. reports of death among females who have received the vaccine. Twenty seven of these reports have been confirmed and 17 remain unconfirmed due to no identifiable patient information in the report such as a name and contact information to confirm the report. Confirmed reports are those that scientists have followed up on and have verified the claim. In the 27 reports confirmed, there was no unusual pattern or clustering to the deaths that would suggest that they were caused by the vaccine."

As you can see, the people who make claims about how "dangerous" the HPV vaccine is are basically full of shiat. Most have an agenda (either anti-vax, or religious bullshiat).

Well, yeah, haven't several hundred thousand women received this already? 44 deaths among those who have. What is the death rate in a comparable group who didn't receive the vaccine (including those who died of cervical cancer, or will do shortly...)?

Also, "medical experts" is an immediate red flag on an article. Alarmist crap can be predicted.

SpeckledJim: Well, yeah, haven't several hundred thousand women received this already? 44 deaths among those who have. What is the death rate in a comparable group who didn't receive the vaccine (including those who died of cervical cancer, or will do shortly...)?

Also, "medical experts" is an immediate red flag on an article. Alarmist crap can be predicted.

That's the CDC - about as reliable a source as you can get about this topic, unless you're a conspiracy theorist. It's also where the 15,000 number was pulled from, minus its context and understanding.

But yeah, that's exactly what I mean. A temporal association does not indicate a causal association. And the CDC has investigated EVERY reported death after getting that vaccine, and found that not one had any strong evidence of being caused by the vaccine.

And it's actually 26 million that have received it, with NO confirmed deaths caused by the vaccine. Seems pretty damn safe to me.

I don't normally say things like this, but seriously, can we just start giving these people polio or something? They're a farking public health menace.

Mr. Breeze: I haven't been on Fark long compared to many others, but it doesn't take long to realize that people start attacking each other personally about 2 to 3 pages into a thread and the whole thing disintegrates from there.

By the looks of it you've been here longer than I have. This pattern isn't particular to Fark, it's just what people are like. :)

/it's fun if you don't take it personally

SpeckledJim: Mr. Breeze: I haven't been on Fark long compared to many others, but it doesn't take long to realize that people start attacking each other personally about 2 to 3 pages into a thread and the whole thing disintegrates from there.

By the looks of it you've been here longer than I have. This pattern isn't particular to Fark, it's just what people are like. :)

/it's fun if you don't take it personally

And you can always just scan for pics after the first 150 posts or so. It passes the time.

"Logical Risk Assessment" needs to be formally instituted as a course of instruction in our public schools. The number of people in our society who can't do is terrifying, and it is responsible for many of our problems.
The story of Mr. Breeze is a perfect example - the only reason he was even going to be sent to Iraq in the first place was the intellectual failure of a government and a people utterly incapable of intelligent risk assessment - and now the poor bastard is trying to apply the same mangled, inductive logic to the vax issues.

jso2897: "Logical Risk Assessment" needs to be formally instituted as a course of instruction in our public schools. The number of people in our society who can't do is terrifying, and it is responsible for many of our problems.

I agree that people are, in general, lousy at estimating risk. There have been some studies done that show (IIRC) people don't really understand low probabilities (like, less than 1 in 100)... which probably explains the popularity of lotteries.

It's always good to provide some comparative figures... like, for influenza A H1N1, I crunched the numbers and worked out that for a member of the general public (i.e. no severe risk factors), the odds of being hospitalized because of the flu were about 100-500 x higher than the risk of being hospitalized from side effects of the vaccine.

tuna fingers: And just how many vaccines into a young body is enough.
How many is too much?
You actually put the polio virus into my kid to stop polio.
You actually put the measles virus into my kid to stop measles.


See my graph way up above that shows we no longer use live virus vaccine for most shots, including Polio and MMR.

tuna fingers: Uchiha_Cycliste: tuna fingers: Are you kidding me? We have flesh-eating bacteria concerns because of the use of the overuse/misuse of antibiotics. Is it just impossible for this to happen in viruses too?

well yeah...

Bacteria =/= virus.

Um read a high school biology text. Bacteria are NOT viruses. Bacteria are cellular organisms that feed off healthy cells and other intercellular nonsense. Viruses on the other hand are things that stab inside healthy cells and replace the [iirc] RNA so the cell will then replicate more virus.

Antibacterials typically work by binding to the cell walls making them impossible to function [can't get stuff in/out]. As a result they die off. Bacteria get resistant when they mutate and the medicine no longer binds to the cell wall.

Viruses on the other hand are usually only killable with antiseptics [bleach, alcohol, etc] and/or heat. Some have been known to survive in space, others can survive on inorganic things for years and years.

So no, the overuse of antibiotic soap [which is stupid btw, use an ethyl alcohol soap if you're that paranoid] doesn't promote virus growth.

/the more you know
//went to high school and even paid attention some of the time
///that said I'm not a doctor so I wouldn't be surprised if my post isn't 100% correct

Hyppy: ........sunblock.
I know that was snark, but believe it or not, there was a (reputable) study started just a short while back exploring the possibility of vitamin D deficiency having a positive correlation with autism. The tip-off came when Somali women emigrating to Scandinavian countries started giving birth to children with extremely high autism rates.

I was not being entirely snarky. Being from a cold weather region of the globe, we've known about augmenting our vit. intake during cold weather months for a long time. Are people from cold weather areas more susceptible to autism?

Perhaps it is not moving to a scandanavian area and using sunblock. Maybe it is just lack of overall sun? Or, perhaps when they move to industrialized nations they begin eating more processed foods. Maybe it is not Vit. D that is the issue. Maybe it is food contact with food container plastic?

Anyway. My point was, there are SO MANY potential issues and vaccines are the most studied of any of them and at every single turn any link has been debunked. Concerned parents and individuals need to get off the Vaccines-Bad bandwagon and start looking at other potential areas of concern.

And the snark part was that if people just start swearing off ANYTHING that might POTENTIALLY me a contributor to the condition, then they should just join the Amish and remove themselves from modern society.

BHShaman: Hyppy: ........sunblock.
I know that was snark, but believe it or not, there was a (reputable) study started just a short while back exploring the possibility of vitamin D deficiency having a positive correlation with autism. The tip-off came when Somali women emigrating to Scandinavian countries started giving birth to children with extremely high autism rates.

I was not being entirely snarky. Being from a cold weather region of the globe, we've known about augmenting our vit. intake during cold weather months for a long time. Are people from cold weather areas more susceptible to autism?

Perhaps it is not moving to a scandanavian area and using sunblock. Maybe it is just lack of overall sun? Or, perhaps when they move to industrialized nations they begin eating more processed foods. Maybe it is not Vit. D that is the issue. Maybe it is food contact with food container plastic?

Anyway. My point was, there are SO MANY potential issues and vaccines are the most studied of any of them and at every single turn any link has been debunked. Concerned parents and individuals need to get off the Vaccines-Bad bandwagon and start looking at other potential areas of concern.

And the snark part was that if people just start swearing off ANYTHING that might POTENTIALLY me a contributor to the condition, then they should just join the Amish and remove themselves from modern society.

Then they'd get founder effect polydactyly... and blame it on the horses, or the neighbor's wife... seriously, it's like witch-hunting and meddling are genetic components of our instinct to form "communities." It just gets amplified across 7 farking billion people.

So this proves autism is made up, right?

Wow. Who knew so many Farkers were vaccination experts? I guess Google makes us Experts at Everything.