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(Discover)   Oh, I *wasn't* supposed to give those kids spinal taps and make up a connection between vaccines and autism? Was that wrong?   (blogs.discovermagazine.com) divider line 379
    More: Dumbass, polio, Jenny McCarthy, measles, conflict of interest, whooping cough, Sky News, fear mongering, constitutional law  
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29196 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Jan 2010 at 8:29 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-01-28 10:07:10 PM
tuna fingers: Are you kidding me? We have flesh-eating bacteria concerns because of the use of the overuse/misuse of antibiotics. Is it just impossible for this to happen in viruses too?

well yeah...

Bacteria =/= virus.
 
2010-01-28 10:08:33 PM
Speaker2Animals:
Because the only ones saying vaccines are a good idea is "Big Pharma." Do you get a boner every time you say or type "Big Pharma?"


Are you a farking moran? Please try to make sense with your next question to me, moran.
 
2010-01-28 10:09:11 PM
tuna fingers: ackb4r: tuna fingers:

Some jackasses have come up with this gem "anti-vax nuts". Which would lead one to believe that there exists "pro-vax nuts".

No, just rational people.

Are you kidding me? We have flesh-eating bacteria concerns because of the use of the overuse/misuse of antibiotics. Is it just impossible for this to happen in viruses too?

Do you idjits even remember that what I wrote initially was:

"Question everything, citizens."


The point is vaccines HAVE been questioned. And tested. Extremely thoroughly. The questions have been answered. The answer: vaccines are good. Very good. Extremely good. Get vaccinated. Farking hell.
 
2010-01-28 10:09:30 PM
Uchiha_Cycliste: tuna fingers: Are you kidding me? We have flesh-eating bacteria concerns because of the use of the overuse/misuse of antibiotics. Is it just impossible for this to happen in viruses too?

well yeah...

Bacteria =/= virus.


images1.fanpop.com
 
2010-01-28 10:10:00 PM
jimi32: Fuller: tuna fingers: NightOwl2255: tuna fingers: Question everything, citizens.

If you blindly follow Big Pharma vax recommendations, you are a complete FOOL.

Nice try, but the threads gone cold. Not enough blood in the water.

Not trollin'.
I actually weigh the pluses and minuses of vaccinations. Is that a novel idea to you?
Does my kid need certain vaccines to enroll in a school? Well, I do my homework. And sometimes I hate the choices we're forced into.
Do I get a flu vaccine?
Fark no.
I don't know what kind of dumbassedness you like to project onto others... but If you blindly follow Big Pharma vax recommendations, you are a complete FOOL.

I am afraid you have been taken in by an entirely discredited conspiracy theory. The science is in, vaccinations are good. Deal with it.

I agree to a point, but when does the study manifest to everyone? Is my kid going to be the "statistic?"


Odds are no.
 
2010-01-28 10:10:54 PM
It's weird how I got a flu vaccine this year, and then when everyone else in my dorm got the flu, I didn't. I'm a natural skeptic, though, so I bet it was because of Jesus. Everyone knows vaccines don't work.
 
2010-01-28 10:11:16 PM
tuna fingers: Are you kidding me? We have flesh-eating bacteria concerns because of the use of the overuse/misuse of antibiotics. Is it just impossible for this to happen in viruses too?

Are you seriously trying to suggest that universal vaccination is somehow analogous to antibiotic overuse? I'm not quite sure what your post was, and I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to think that, so I'm asking for clarification. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, here.
 
2010-01-28 10:11:20 PM
Fuller:
The point is vaccines HAVE been questioned. And tested. Extremely thoroughly. The questions have been answered. The answer: vaccines are good. Very good. Extremely good. Get vaccinated. Farking hell.


All of them.
Blindly.

You are a fool.
 
2010-01-28 10:11:59 PM
Somebody better call Madagascar.
 
2010-01-28 10:12:32 PM
tallguywithglasseson: FishyFred: Taking bets on how the anti-vax nuts are going to rationalize this...

UK Government is being paid off by Big Pharma.

Being a conspiracy nut is easy.

[Denialism cover] (new window)


Also ecx.images-amazon.com

Link (new window)
 
2010-01-28 10:12:35 PM
shijjiri: I thoroughly oppose vaccination. Not because I believe it causes some kind of harm or any of that crap but because it halts the process of natural selection. I'm tired of looking at the idiotic damage caused by vaccinating third world countries into dangerous overpopulation.

I don't oppose medical treatment. I oppose the blind protection of the mentally and genetically inferior for the sake of emotional feel-good. Vaccines are too cheap; too readily available. If someone has the means to protect themselves and survive the illness around them on their own, then they will.

Your blind altruism is creating famine and suffering around the world that might otherwise have been prevented. Can't you see all the anti-vaccination group is trying to do is set Darwin free? Stop hating things and forcing them to live when they're offering to kill themselves off.


Is this a joke? Why is it that people should die of diseases instead of starvation (or more likely: unclean water, malaria)?

Do you have any idea what a sacrifice our big brains are (more risk of dying during childbirth)? The long period of child-raising we have ? All the learning & teaching? That is all evolution, and we have evolved to have big brains, teach our children, and use the knowledge for survival.
You do not understand biology, physiology, or ethics and furthermore evolution is not a directional process that leads to what is best for humans. Evolution does not have a conscious or want to minimize suffering. That is our job.

/end corruption, promote birth control, improve agriculture & clean water systems, work on TB & malaria prevention are going to do a lot more than not vaccinating children to solve problems.
 
2010-01-28 10:13:29 PM
Mnemia: tuna fingers: Are you kidding me? We have flesh-eating bacteria concerns because of the use of the overuse/misuse of antibiotics. Is it just impossible for this to happen in viruses too?

Are you seriously trying to suggest that universal vaccination is somehow analogous to antibiotic overuse? I'm not quite sure what your post was, and I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to think that, so I'm asking for clarification. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, here.


Exactly how is it not analogous to antibiotic overuse!
Call me stupid, fine?
But explain how it is not analogous to antibiotic overuse.
 
2010-01-28 10:14:10 PM
tuna fingers:

Bacteria =/= virus.

Citation needed


Lobotomy needed.
 
2010-01-28 10:14:34 PM
tuna fingers: Fuller:
The point is vaccines HAVE been questioned. And tested. Extremely thoroughly. The questions have been answered. The answer: vaccines are good. Very good. Extremely good. Get vaccinated. Farking hell.

All of them.
Blindly.

You are a fool.


Heh, that was good, you put words in my mouth and criticised me as if I said those words. Clever.
 
2010-01-28 10:17:48 PM
whatshisname: tuna fingers:

Bacteria =/= virus.

Citation needed

Lobotomy needed.


Don't cut my post short. That wasn't where I requested the citation. See my question posed to Mnemia.
Thanks though.
 
2010-01-28 10:18:19 PM
tuna fingers: Is it just impossible for this to happen in viruses too?

Viruses that mutate fast enough to evade a vaccine will mutate anyway, regardless of whether people are vaccinated or not. So no, for vaccines, increasing vaccination does not lead to increased resistance in a way that will make people more at risk. For antiviral therapies on the other hand ...

Does it make me a moran to let you hook me with this troll.
 
2010-01-28 10:18:31 PM
Fuller: tuna fingers: Fuller:
The point is vaccines HAVE been questioned. And tested. Extremely thoroughly. The questions have been answered. The answer: vaccines are good. Very good. Extremely good. Get vaccinated. Farking hell.

All of them.
Blindly.

You are a fool.

Heh, that was good, you put words in my mouth and criticised me as if I said those words. Clever.


No I didn't.
 
2010-01-28 10:18:32 PM
tuna fingers: Exactly how is it not analogous to antibiotic overuse!
Call me stupid, fine?
But explain how it is not analogous to antibiotic overuse.


It's not analogous in that the two things have nothing at all in common?

Antibiotics directly kill bacteria, which can then evolve resistance if some of them survive and are passed on.

Vaccines do NOT directly kill viruses or bacteria. Instead, they expose the immune system to the "appearance" of the pathogen so that if it later encounters the real thing, it will be able to quickly deal with it and prevent infection. There is nothing for the viruses to evolve resistance to, although obviously they are still evolving.
 
2010-01-28 10:18:37 PM
tuna fingers: Uchiha_Cycliste:Bacteria =/= virus.

Citation needed


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria

Would you like citations for some other stuff, too? I've got "dog != cat" and "tuna fingers = asinine" waiting in the works.
 
2010-01-28 10:19:41 PM
Fuller: tuna fingers: Fuller:
The point is vaccines HAVE been questioned. And tested. Extremely thoroughly. The questions have been answered. The answer: vaccines are good. Very good. Extremely good. Get vaccinated. Farking hell.

All of them.
Blindly.

You are a fool.

Heh, that was good, you put words in my mouth and criticised me as if I said those words. Clever.


...to elaborate, not all of them, just all of the clinically tested, verified and approved ones.

Blindly? No. Clinical trials, peer review and independent testing is exactly the opposite of blind.

The data is in. Seriously. Truthfully. Really really really. It's in.
 
2010-01-28 10:19:42 PM
tuna fingers: whatshisname: tuna fingers:

Bacteria =/= virus.

Citation needed

Lobotomy needed.

Don't cut my post short. That wasn't where I requested the citation. See my question posed to Mnemia.
Thanks though.


Really, you want me to find a citation that says a bacteria is a bacteria and not a virus? and that a virus is a virus and not a bacteria? Sheeit....
 
2010-01-28 10:20:54 PM
mcjon01: tuna fingers: Uchiha_Cycliste:Bacteria =/= virus.

Citation needed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria

Would you like citations for some other stuff, too? I've got "dog != cat" and "tuna fingers = asinine" waiting in the works.


can we spell that with 2 's''s?
 
2010-01-28 10:20:59 PM
dakarpsi: I have mixed feelings, a woman I used to work with had her kid vaccinated when he was 4 heading to preschool. The kid knew most of the alphabet and was perfectly normal before the vaccination, window licker afterwords. She killed herself a few years later because she couldn't live with the guilt.

I know it's all anecdotal, but still, it was too much of a coincidence for my taste.


autism manifests itself before 4
 
2010-01-28 10:21:16 PM
tuna fingers: Mnemia: tuna fingers: Are you kidding me? We have flesh-eating bacteria concerns because of the use of the overuse/misuse of antibiotics. Is it just impossible for this to happen in viruses too?

Are you seriously trying to suggest that universal vaccination is somehow analogous to antibiotic overuse? I'm not quite sure what your post was, and I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to think that, so I'm asking for clarification. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, here.

Exactly how is it not analogous to antibiotic overuse!
Call me stupid, fine?
But explain how it is not analogous to antibiotic overuse.


Antibiotics physically kill bacteria. If some bacteria survive and reproduce then antibiotic-resistant bacteria exists. This often happens when antibiotics are overused (as if every sniffle is a sinus infection) and when people don't finish their entire course of antibiotics (I feel better- don't need these pills!). Even if these things didn't happen, antibiotic resistant bacteria would probably still develop but with these and proper quaruntine techniques it can be avoided. See: Norway

Vaccines on the other hand introduce your immune system to a virus (usually only part of a virus or a dead virus). This allows your immune system to recognize viruses as an intruder BEFORE the vaccine has a chance to reproduce in your body.

Since vaccines happen before you ever contact the agent and anti-biotics happen after you are showing symptoms, they are obviously very different. Furthermore bacteria and viruses are very different. For one viruses are tiny compared to bacteria.
 
2010-01-28 10:22:18 PM
Mnemia: tuna fingers: Exactly how is it not analogous to antibiotic overuse!
Call me stupid, fine?
But explain how it is not analogous to antibiotic overuse.

It's not analogous in that the two things have nothing at all in common?

Antibiotics directly kill bacteria, which can then evolve resistance if some of them survive and are passed on.

Vaccines do NOT directly kill viruses or bacteria. Instead, they expose the immune system to the "appearance" of the pathogen so that if it later encounters the real thing, it will be able to quickly deal with it and prevent infection. There is nothing for the viruses to evolve resistance to, although obviously they are still evolving.


You sound too sure about that. Just like the pharmaceuticals (and then doctors) who overprescribed antibiotics thought they were doing the right thing.
 
2010-01-28 10:22:31 PM
thanks spidermilk.
 
2010-01-28 10:23:19 PM
tuna fingers: Mnemia: tuna fingers: Exactly how is it not analogous to antibiotic overuse!
Call me stupid, fine?
But explain how it is not analogous to antibiotic overuse.

It's not analogous in that the two things have nothing at all in common?

Antibiotics directly kill bacteria, which can then evolve resistance if some of them survive and are passed on.

Vaccines do NOT directly kill viruses or bacteria. Instead, they expose the immune system to the "appearance" of the pathogen so that if it later encounters the real thing, it will be able to quickly deal with it and prevent infection. There is nothing for the viruses to evolve resistance to, although obviously they are still evolving.

You sound too sure about that. Just like the pharmaceuticals (and then doctors) who overprescribed antibiotics thought they were doing the right thing.


Ad Hominem, try again.
 
2010-01-28 10:24:24 PM
tuna fingers: Bacteria =/= virus.

Citation needed


I loled a little in my mouth.
 
2010-01-28 10:24:32 PM
tuna fingers: Fuller: tuna fingers: Fuller:
The point is vaccines HAVE been questioned. And tested. Extremely thoroughly. The questions have been answered. The answer: vaccines are good. Very good. Extremely good. Get vaccinated. Farking hell.

All of them.
Blindly.

You are a fool.

Heh, that was good, you put words in my mouth and criticised me as if I said those words. Clever.

No I didn't.


Yes you did. I never said all, and I especially never said blindly. Your words -> my mouth. See my previous post addressing these two strawmen.
 
2010-01-28 10:25:33 PM
Fine.
Question nothing. Your doctor knows best. So does that other one that you have to go to know since your employer switched policies. He's got good advice. So does that school board. They're full of good advice too.
Question nothing.

YOU TEH SCHMARTS!!!!
 
2010-01-28 10:26:33 PM
tuna fingers: Fine.
Question nothing. Your doctor knows best. So does that other one that you have to go to know since your employer switched policies. He's got good advice. So does that school board. They're full of good advice too.
Question nothing.

YOU TEH SCHMARTS!!!!


Ad Hominem, try again.
 
2010-01-28 10:26:57 PM
stumpwiz: jimi32: alywa: These gentlemen frown on Andrew Wakefield's shenanigans.

Is that a P-40?

That was the first thing I wondered. Looks like one to me.


The Tuskegee Airmen ("Red Tails") flew P-40s. The "Tuskegee experiment" was another well known ethical clusterfark.

TBH, I'm not sure if the two are actually related, but I think that's what alywa was going for.
 
2010-01-28 10:27:04 PM
tuna fingers: Mnemia: tuna fingers: Exactly how is it not analogous to antibiotic overuse!
Call me stupid, fine?
But explain how it is not analogous to antibiotic overuse.

It's not analogous in that the two things have nothing at all in common?

Antibiotics directly kill bacteria, which can then evolve resistance if some of them survive and are passed on.

Vaccines do NOT directly kill viruses or bacteria. Instead, they expose the immune system to the "appearance" of the pathogen so that if it later encounters the real thing, it will be able to quickly deal with it and prevent infection. There is nothing for the viruses to evolve resistance to, although obviously they are still evolving.

You sound too sure about that. Just like the pharmaceuticals (and then doctors) who overprescribed antibiotics thought they were doing the right thing.


Oh Lord, this has got to be a troll.
 
2010-01-28 10:27:56 PM
tuna fingers:
You sound too sure about that. Just like the pharmaceuticals (and then doctors) who overprescribed antibiotics thought they were doing the right thing.


Well, there is a big difference: we know for a fact that you're wrong, based on long experience. Initially, they didn't anticipate that problem with antibiotics. Nowadays, most doctors know that antibiotic overuse is a problem, although some of them still face pressures to overuse them (ie, whiny helicopter parents who scream at them to "do something" about their kids' viral infections). Also, a large source of antibiotic resistance may well be things like bad agricultural practices (ie, widespread prophylactic use of antibiotics in CAFOs), and not just human use.
 
2010-01-28 10:27:59 PM
noneyourbase: stumpwiz: jimi32: alywa: These gentlemen frown on Andrew Wakefield's shenanigans.

Is that a P-40?

That was the first thing I wondered. Looks like one to me.

The Tuskegee Airmen ("Red Tails") flew P-40s. The "Tuskegee experiment" was another well known ethical clusterfark.

TBH, I'm not sure if the two are actually related, but I think that's what alywa was going for.


Lemme know if you ever need someone to test this shiat, my grandfather was in the Tuskegee experiment.
 
2010-01-28 10:29:22 PM
tuna fingers: Fine.
Question nothing. Your doctor knows best. So does that other one that you have to go to know since your employer switched policies. He's got good advice. So does that school board. They're full of good advice too.
Question nothing.

YOU TEH SCHMARTS!!!!


Clinical trials. Peer review. Independent tests. Masses of statistical data.

Learn how these things work, or gtfo.
 
2010-01-28 10:30:45 PM
dumbgai: Oh Lord, this has got to be a troll.

Probably. But the anti-vaxxer movement has convinced me that there are plenty of people who really do believe things as stupid and uninformed as what he's been saying. We can't allow this kind of garbage to stand.
 
2010-01-28 10:31:25 PM
Fuller: tuna fingers: Fine.
Question nothing. Your doctor knows best. So does that other one that you have to go to know since your employer switched policies. He's got good advice. So does that school board. They're full of good advice too.
Question nothing.

YOU TEH SCHMARTS!!!!

Clinical trials. Peer review. Independent tests. Masses of statistical data.

Learn how these things work, or gtfo.


Are you really going to blindly trust these things? Wake up sheeple!
 
2010-01-28 10:31:28 PM
tuna fingers: Fine.
Question nothing. Your doctor knows best. So does that other one that you have to go to know since your employer switched policies. He's got good advice. So does that school board. They're full of good advice too.
Question nothing.

YOU TEH SCHMARTS!!!!


If you don't know the difference between a bacteria and a virus, what makes you think you're qualified to question the efficacy of vaccines?
 
2010-01-28 10:31:48 PM
Fuller: tuna fingers: Fine.
Question nothing. Your doctor knows best. So does that other one that you have to go to know since your employer switched policies. He's got good advice. So does that school board. They're full of good advice too.
Question nothing.

YOU TEH SCHMARTS!!!!

Clinical trials. Peer review. Independent tests. Masses of statistical data.

Learn how these things work, or gtfo.


But wait, didn't you hear? Big Pharma. Therefore, none of that stuff you said matters.
 
2010-01-28 10:32:22 PM
tuna fingers: YOU TEH SCHMARTS!!!!

Hey, if you're not going to stay dedicated with this trolling then quit. There's got to be some antivax true believers lurking this thread who might post if they don't see anyone challenging the rational people.
 
2010-01-28 10:32:36 PM
Dear NT's that are nuts,

Just because some people have Autism doesn't make it ok to experiment on us.

We do not need a cure, I think some of you do. Im not trying to cure you. How do you know you are not the one with the problem? They are finding more of us everyday. Still believe in evolution? Who's more evolved then?

Think about it.

Signed,

An Autistic.
 
2010-01-28 10:33:00 PM
tuna fingers: Mnemia: tuna fingers: Are you kidding me? We have flesh-eating bacteria concerns because of the use of the overuse/misuse of antibiotics. Is it just impossible for this to happen in viruses too?

Are you seriously trying to suggest that universal vaccination is somehow analogous to antibiotic overuse? I'm not quite sure what your post was, and I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to think that, so I'm asking for clarification. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, here.

Exactly how is it not analogous to antibiotic overuse!
Call me stupid, fine?
But explain how it is not analogous to antibiotic overuse.


A vaccine stimulates the immune system to martial a defense. The immune system that has evolved in concert with the virii that might make a home of the host. If the virii evolve, fine, new vaccine or other attack. Alternatively it can evolve to make use of other very different hosts, or to be benign, or even beneficial. Then we likely would not bother vaccinating against them. There is some cost to this. It's a economic fact that the very few lives and resources lost to this course of action are a small thing next to all that this course of action preserves. Don't like it? Go get polio.
 
2010-01-28 10:33:22 PM
The antivax movement is resulting in the deaths of children from preventable diseases, many of which were all but gone in the United States. We're seeing the return of measles, mumps, pertussis, even polio - polio, which was eradicated entirely in the US by 1994. Because vaccines are so effective, people don't remember these diseases and how they would kill, and now the antivaxxers are paving the way for their return.

So, it's ok for this guy to state baseless claims, but it's not ok to be against vaccinations. Let's see proof that not vaccinating causes harm. And while we're on the polio thing, let's not forget what Jonas Salk himself said:



Riiight.

/SV40
 
2010-01-28 10:35:49 PM
verbal_jizm: Hey, if you're not going to stay dedicated with this trolling then quit. There's got to be some antivax true believers lurking this thread who might post if they don't see anyone challenging the rational people.

The true antivaxxers are probably too stupid to use fark.

And that's saying something.
 
2010-01-28 10:36:06 PM
number8: ackb4r: Jsc810: The anti-vaxers really piss me off. It isn't just themselves they hurt, it is the entire population.

They are safe because the vast majority of people around them get vaccinated, so they are never really exposed to anything bad.

Oh really?


I love charts like that... especially when it obscures the fact that damn near all of the measles cases were either from elsewhere {outside the US}, of "unknown" vaccination status, or near someone in the first two categories.

Charts ain't facts, Charlie.
 
2010-01-28 10:37:06 PM
verbal_jizm: tuna fingers: YOU TEH SCHMARTS!!!!

Hey, if you're not going to stay dedicated with this trolling then quit. There's got to be some antivax true believers lurking this thread who might post if they don't see anyone challenging the rational people.


I haven't seen any real challenge to the rational people at all yet, but hey, I'm open minded.
 
2010-01-28 10:39:06 PM
attention span of a retarded fruit fly: We do not need a cure, I think some of you do. Im not trying to cure you. How do you know you are not the one with the problem? They are finding more of us everyday. Still believe in evolution? Who's more evolved then?

Not you, obviously. "More evolved"? What utter nonsense.

/People aren't Pokemon
 
2010-01-28 10:39:09 PM
PresentCompanyExcluded: Let's see proof that not vaccinating causes harm.

*Points to the entire history of pre-germ theory humanity*

..next?
 
2010-01-28 10:39:42 PM
jfsimpson: The true antivaxxers are probably too stupid to use fark.

The guy right above you suggests otherwise.
 
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