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(Daily Kos)   On today's episode of Tinfoil Hat Theatre: How Paulson and Goldman colluded to destroy AIG   (dailykos.com) divider line 120
    More: Interesting, Tinfoil Hat Theatre, tin foil hats, Andrew Ross Sorkin, Hank Paulson, AIG, credit default swaps, Deutsche Bank, consumer loans  
•       •       •

1715 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Jan 2010 at 10:35 AM (5 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



120 Comments   (+0 »)
   

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2010-01-28 10:39:08 AM  
Excellent article. Nothing "tinfoil" about it. That's exactly what happened.
 
2010-01-28 10:42:38 AM  
If believing that Goldman tricked AIG into insuring derivatives that weren't worth anything under the guise they were sound investments is insane, then I don't want to know sane.
 
2010-01-28 10:45:25 AM  
downlode.org

//needs more zappa
 
2010-01-28 10:47:46 AM  
I'm getting very tired of the "tinfoil" thing. Sometimes people get together to talk about doing things that they'd get in trouble for. Since they'd get in trouble, they keep those meetings as secret as possible. This is known as "conspiring", and happens quite often.

Christ, it's like it is ok to admit this in the abstract, but actually pointing it out when it happens? TINFOIL CONSPIRACY THEORY LULZ HURR DURP.

Eat it, subby.
 
2010-01-28 10:50:27 AM  
To be fair, he's been preoccupied lately...

img89.imageshack.us
 
2010-01-28 10:53:25 AM  
To understand what happened, you need to remember that the top guys at Goldman are really, really smart

I reject your premise. They are really, really GREEDY.
 
2010-01-28 10:53:54 AM  
illegal.tender: I'm getting very tired of the "tinfoil" thing. Sometimes people get together to talk about doing things that they'd get in trouble for. Since they'd get in trouble, they keep those meetings as secret as possible. This is known as "conspiring", and happens quite often.

Christ, it's like it is ok to admit this in the abstract, but actually pointing it out when it happens? TINFOIL CONSPIRACY THEORY LULZ HURR DURP.

Eat it, subby.


Exactly.

99.995% of people do not un derstand how the financial systems work. That allows 0.005% of the people to make out like bandits at everyone's expense. Then when folks who understand how it works point out shannanigans, its "Phhhhhhhhftt, tinfoil time".
 
2010-01-28 10:56:13 AM  
Tony Van Morrison: Excellent article. Nothing "tinfoil" about it. That's exactly what happened.

Yep, and I remember similar stories(though not as well written)from this time last year. Those articles also had several different smart guys screaming in frustration while everyone dismissed them as "tinfoil conspiracists".
 
2010-01-28 10:57:09 AM  
illegal.tender: I'm getting very tired of the "tinfoil" thing. Sometimes people get together to talk about doing things that they'd get in trouble for. Since they'd get in trouble, they keep those meetings as secret as possible. This is known as "conspiring", and happens quite often.

Christ, it's like it is ok to admit this in the abstract, but actually pointing it out when it happens? TINFOIL CONSPIRACY THEORY LULZ HURR DURP.


I completely agree. "Conspiracy theories" bring to mind the Illuminati and UFOs. Large entities colluding to make money on other people's dime? No, that's not pie-in-the-sky survivalist talk.
 
2010-01-28 10:58:42 AM  
This is merely a conspiracy hoping to sell more tinfoil.
 
2010-01-28 10:59:16 AM  
Backdoor Bailout Sluts 9?
 
2010-01-28 11:07:13 AM  
Didn't Matt Taibbi write essentially the same column months ago?
 
2010-01-28 11:08:37 AM  
how Goldman-Sachs executives have managed to avoid a jail term is entirely beyond me.
 
2010-01-28 11:11:56 AM  
Weaver95: how Goldman-Sachs executives have managed to avoid a jail term is entirely beyond me.

I'm still surprised that, while teabaggers still mill around with their badly-written signs, very few people have gone down to Wall Street with torches.
 
2010-01-28 11:16:59 AM  
IXI Jim IXI: Weaver95: how Goldman-Sachs executives have managed to avoid a jail term is entirely beyond me.

I'm still surprised that, while teabaggers still mill around with their badly-written signs, very few people have gone down to Wall Street with torches.


Nobody in the teabagger movement is smart enough to figure out how the corporations screwed 'em over. And even if they did figure it out, half the teabaggers would actually support corporations cheating.

that's what I can't figure out about the teabaggers - they just ignore what's really going on around the country.
 
2010-01-28 11:20:01 AM  

what_now

To understand what happened, you need to remember that the top guys at Goldman are really, really smart

I reject your premise. They are really, really GREEDY criminals.




FTFY

How not a single one of these "captains of industry" has been tried, convicted and sentenced to prison for the largest FRAUD of all time is beyond me.


The system has failed.
 
2010-01-28 11:20:19 AM  
Weaver95: that's what I can't figure out about the teabaggers - they just ignore what's really going on around the country.

Just further proof to me that they're a bunch of GOPers playing dress-up.
 
2010-01-28 11:20:19 AM  
Weaver95: IXI Jim IXI: Weaver95: how Goldman-Sachs executives have managed to avoid a jail term is entirely beyond me.

I'm still surprised that, while teabaggers still mill around with their badly-written signs, very few people have gone down to Wall Street with torches.

Nobody in the teabagger movement is smart enough to figure out how the corporations screwed 'em over. And even if they did figure it out, half the teabaggers would actually support corporations cheating.

that's what I can't figure out about the teabaggers - they just ignore what's really going on around the country.


But, but socialsim is Nazism......
 
2010-01-28 11:23:33 AM  
Weaver95: Nobody in the teabagger movement is smart enough to figure out how the corporations screwed 'em over. And even if they did figure it out, half the teabaggers would actually support corporations cheating.

Every crime of the financial industry can be explained by "government involvement" in the minds of the teabaggers. The axioms go thusly:

1) The unrestrained free market is the most durable, stable, enduring system of economics on the planet. It can instantly adapt to any adversity.

2) Even being touched by anything related to government instantly turns the free market into runny sh*t, forever and ever.
 
2010-01-28 11:23:54 AM  
illegal.tender: I'm getting very tired of the "tinfoil" thing. Sometimes people get together to talk about doing things that they'd get in trouble for. Since they'd get in trouble, they keep those meetings as secret as possible. This is known as "conspiring", and happens quite often.

It's frightening how few people get this.
 
2010-01-28 11:24:37 AM  
IXI Jim IXI: Weaver95: how Goldman-Sachs executives have managed to avoid a jail term is entirely beyond me.

I'm still surprised that, while teabaggers still mill around with their badly-written signs, very few people have gone down to Wall Street with torches.


Obama is a very convenient target, don't you think?

People aren't as pissed off because things are not as bad as they could be, and what rage they have is being funneled at Obama.

//Presidents don't have power, they distract from where the real power lies.
 
2010-01-28 11:25:37 AM  
Submitard should be ashamed. These were merely two honest civil servants, selflessly serving their country in a time of economic crisis without regard to their own personal interests.

/I think that's how their testimony went.
 
2010-01-28 11:25:46 AM  
Weaver95: IXI Jim IXI: Weaver95: how Goldman-Sachs executives have managed to avoid a jail term is entirely beyond me.

I'm still surprised that, while teabaggers still mill around with their badly-written signs, very few people have gone down to Wall Street with torches.

Nobody in the teabagger movement is smart enough to figure out how the corporations screwed 'em over. And even if they did figure it out, half the teabaggers would actually support corporations cheating.

that's what I can't figure out about the teabaggers - they just ignore what's really going on around the country.


They are stuck in a true "black/white" mindset, and I don't mean race this time. They believe if you blame the wall street hucksters - ie the super wealthy - then you are de facto blaming the entire system of capitalism. To them, the only people who would "blame capitalism" are socialists/communists/marxists. Therefore, to blame the wall street hucksters would mean they are in favor of the only alternative - socialism/communism/marxis.

This is truly how they think - To attack the greedy hucksters who wouldn't piss on the rest of us if we are on fire is to embrace communism. Its completely childish, illogical and they ultimately know better, but fear is a powerful tool.
 
2010-01-28 11:26:46 AM  
On today's episode of Tinfoil Hat Theatre: How Paulson and Goldman colluded to destroy AIG screw the taxpayer.

FTFY subtard.

Because NOT paying AIG's swaps off at 100% to GS and others would have been bad because former GS execs say so.
 
2010-01-28 11:30:26 AM  
Someone wake me when arrests are made.
 
2010-01-28 11:30:59 AM  
The real problem is this got picked up by the anti-Semite groups really quickly, and they kind of turn off the moderate public.

Something about raving on regarding the evil, demon controlled Jewish bankers thriving on misery and violence turns people off.

//I don't talk to that coworker very much anymore.
 
2010-01-28 11:31:17 AM  
Seeing as it takes over a year to get answers...

What does the Fed intend to do with the trillion or so in MBS it's been sucking up like the proverbial Dyson blackhole crackwhore from Freddie/Fannie? Leave the taxpayer holding the bag for those as well?
 
2010-01-28 11:32:06 AM  
Jon Stewart had asked a guest (whose name escapes me ATM) why the TARP funds didn't simply pay off the toxic mortgages so the banks and the homeowners were free of their bad bets. I can't remember what her(?) answer was but that question has been rattling around in my mind again the last few days. Does anyone remember this interview or have an answer for that question?
 
2010-01-28 11:33:57 AM  
meat0918: The real problem is this got picked up by the anti-Semite groups really quickly, and they kind of turn off the moderate public.

Something about raving on regarding the evil, demon controlled Jewish bankers thriving on misery and violence turns people off.

//I don't talk to that coworker very much anymore.


That's a funny way to spell "Limbaugh".
 
2010-01-28 11:34:01 AM  
Senescent Dawn: Every crime of the financial industry can be explained by "government involvement" in the minds of the teabaggers.

Unless it has to do with subsidies. Then, suddenly, the gubmint is all fine.
 
2010-01-28 11:35:02 AM  
mediaho: Jon Stewart had asked a guest (whose name escapes me ATM) why the TARP funds didn't simply pay off the toxic mortgages so the banks and the homeowners were free of their bad bets. I can't remember what her(?) answer was but that question has been rattling around in my mind again the last few days. Does anyone remember this interview or have an answer for that question?

Well, that would reward bad behavior.

(no, I couldn't type that with a straight face)
 
2010-01-28 11:37:44 AM  
If you want to see how much people have crapped all over the word "conspiracy", ask them about 9/11.

"Do you think 9/11 was a conspiracy?"

"LOL! TROOFER! TINFOIL HAT!!! FROTH!"

"Ok then, what do you think happened?"

"Just like the government said. A guy with bad kidneys and a metric assload of money in a cave in Tora Bora got together a huge network of sympathetic terrorists, trained them, got them into the US, had them enroll in flight schools and learn how to handle the planes, then orchestrated the simultaneous takeover of four airliners, three of the four finally hitting their intended targets."

Oh, my bad then. Surely no conspiracy there.
 
2010-01-28 11:38:07 AM  
Dr Dreidel: meat0918: The real problem is this got picked up by the anti-Semite groups really quickly, and they kind of turn off the moderate public.

Something about raving on regarding the evil, demon controlled Jewish bankers thriving on misery and violence turns people off.

//I don't talk to that coworker very much anymore.

That's a funny way to spell "Limbaugh".


I think he believes Limbaugh is another Jewish shill.

I've talked about him before, my coworker is nuts. But he's one of those that has a grand, overarching conspiracy, from aliens to vampires to Obama to Paulson and the evil banking industry and Fed.
 
2010-01-28 11:38:10 AM  
mediaho: Jon Stewart had asked a guest (whose name escapes me ATM) why the TARP funds didn't simply pay off the toxic mortgages so the banks and the homeowners were free of their bad bets. I can't remember what her(?) answer was but that question has been rattling around in my mind again the last few days. Does anyone remember this interview or have an answer for that question?

Elizabeth Warren?

Adds to the debt?
 
2010-01-28 11:38:17 AM  
mediaho: Jon Stewart had asked a guest (whose name escapes me ATM) why the TARP funds didn't simply pay off the toxic mortgages so the banks and the homeowners were free of their bad bets. I can't remember what her(?) answer was but that question has been rattling around in my mind again the last few days. Does anyone remember this interview or have an answer for that question?

Might be Elizabeth Warren. He's had her on twice and she's pretty damn good about this whole mess.
 
2010-01-28 11:40:10 AM  
And yet, AIG is still alive.

I guess they can't do anything right.
 
2010-01-28 11:42:43 AM  
Might be Warren. Thanks, folks. Gonna see if I can dig that interview up for myself.
 
2010-01-28 11:45:06 AM  
madmann: If you want to see how much people have crapped all over the word "conspiracy", ask them about 9/11.

"Do you think 9/11 was a conspiracy?"

"LOL! TROOFER! TINFOIL HAT!!! FROTH!"

"Ok then, what do you think happened?"

"Just like the government said. A guy with bad kidneys and a metric assload of money in a cave in Tora Bora got together a huge network of sympathetic terrorists, trained them, got them into the US, had them enroll in flight schools and learn how to handle the planes, then orchestrated the simultaneous takeover of four airliners, three of the four finally hitting their intended targets."

Oh, my bad then. Surely no conspiracy there.


Exactly.

Hell, the OFFICIAL STORY is by definition, a "conspiracy." Implausible, provably false, but a conspiracy nonetheless.
 
2010-01-28 11:46:22 AM  
mediaho: Might be Warren. Thanks, folks. Gonna see if I can dig that interview up for myself.

I suggest both that she did and some of the YouTube videos of her lectures. She seems to get what it means to be struggling in the middle class more than anyone else.
 
GOB
2010-01-28 11:46:28 AM  
mediaho: Jon Stewart had asked a guest (whose name escapes me ATM) why the TARP funds didn't simply pay off the toxic mortgages so the banks and the homeowners were free of their bad bets. I can't remember what her(?) answer was but that question has been rattling around in my mind again the last few days. Does anyone remember this interview or have an answer for that question?

As someone who has been renting due to the huge increase in housing prices I would be pretty damn pissed if that happened.
Doesn't mean I'm happy the money went to the Wall Street fatcats,
but when both parties are doing it, what the hell can we do about it?

one idea (new window)
 
2010-01-28 11:46:50 AM  
mediaho: Jon Stewart had asked a guest (whose name escapes me ATM) why the TARP funds didn't simply pay off the toxic mortgages so the banks and the homeowners were free of their bad bets. I can't remember what her(?) answer was but that question has been rattling around in my mind again the last few days. Does anyone remember this interview or have an answer for that question?

I don't know of this interview, but I'm pretty sure that was the original plan. But there were two problems. One, the banks would fail if they had to take the losses over a short period because it would shoot their capital ratios to shiat. In essence, they couldn't agree on the fair market value of the securities (the CDO's, CMO's, etc.).

Also, the securities are ridiculously complicated. There's not a 1-for-1 match of mortgages to the securities that hold them, i.e. the same mortgage may have been carved up into two or more securites.
 
2010-01-28 11:48:33 AM  
Please tell me that there aren't retards trying to turn this thread into a 9/11 conspiracy discussion...

/Just... Just stop.
 
2010-01-28 11:51:00 AM  
Look at the rating on this agreement! Now look at this envelope with your name on it, banker. That is all you need to see. There will be more like it, both of them.

/no mention of the word sheeple yet to disregard things?
//really?
 
2010-01-28 11:51:20 AM  
Shostie: Please tell me that there aren't retards trying to turn this thread into a 9/11 conspiracy discussion...

/Just... Just stop.


Too late.

//Imagine if the internet had existed during Pearl Harbor.
 
2010-01-28 11:54:22 AM  
meat0918: Shostie: Please tell me that there aren't retards trying to turn this thread into a 9/11 conspiracy discussion...

/Just... Just stop.

Too late.

//Imagine if the internet had existed during Pearl Harbor.


Christ... I don't want to think about that. The idea of an internet in the 1960's fostering Kennedy assassination theories gives me enough of a headache.
 
2010-01-28 11:54:44 AM  
collateralized debt objections

Maybe I'm off my meds, or maybe they don't know WTF they're talking about.
 
2010-01-28 11:56:37 AM  
Shostie: meat0918: Shostie: Please tell me that there aren't retards trying to turn this thread into a 9/11 conspiracy discussion...

/Just... Just stop.

Too late.

//Imagine if the internet had existed during Pearl Harbor.

Christ... I don't want to think about that. The idea of an internet in the 1960's fostering Kennedy assassination theories gives me enough of a headache.


Yeah, Hellen Keller would have tweeted, "They'll never find me" and then turned off her phone forever...
 
2010-01-28 11:57:48 AM  
Give back my money!
 
2010-01-28 11:58:30 AM  
meat0918: The real problem is this got picked up by the anti-Semite groups really quickly, and they kind of turn off the moderate public.

Something about raving on regarding the evil, demon controlled Jewish bankers thriving on misery and violence turns people off.

//I don't talk to that coworker very much anymore.


No, no, no, no! Ur doin it rong. What you do is subtly provoke the rants, tape them, and make a website entitled "Crazy Coworkers" or something. Invite other people to submit recordings of their own crazy coworkers, then submit the best ones to Fark. See? You can milk your crazy coworker for greenlights! Precious, delicious, sexy greenlights...
 
2010-01-28 11:59:35 AM  
BalugaJoe: Give back my money!

IT'S MY MONEY AND I NEED IT NOW!!!
 
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