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(Minneapolis Star Tribune)   The RIAA will not reduce the penalty for a Brainerd woman who shared 24 songs, ya you betcha   (startribune.com) divider line 202
    More: Asinine  
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14937 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Jan 2010 at 11:05 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-01-28 03:24:40 AM
spookidooki: Occam's Nailfile: We get them ink in magazines. We get them radio interviews.

And that would be great if this was 1986.


Not just print magazines you douche. Online fan zines, blogs, genre specific publications...

Think of a band you like. How did you first hear of them? How do you find out they have a new CD coming out? How do you learn about when they are coming to your town?

Marketing. Marketing. Marketing. Someone paid money to put the word out, it reached your ears, and you made a decision to like or dislike the music, buy or not buy a CD, and go or not go to a show. But SOMEONE had to pay SOMETHING to make sure you heard about it.
 
2010-01-28 03:31:19 AM
Occam's Nailfile: How did you first hear of them?

Wikipedia (i shiat you not, i go by obscure genre usually), Friends, File sharing

I do not watch television. I rip movies (found based on friend's recommendations/trawling imdb listings while board) before I watch them (no ads/previews/YOU WOULDNT COPY A CAR bullshiat). I do not listen to radio. I block ads on most webpages.

Having said that, 1/3 of the artists I frequently listen to... are dead.

I'm not a traditional media "consumer" and I'm telling you that, from where I see it, many others in my generation aren't either.
 
2010-01-28 03:33:17 AM
I happened upon one in a bar they were playing in. They play pretty regularly and I always enjoy it. Seems like they have a good time.
 
2010-01-28 03:38:08 AM
spookidooki: Occam's Nailfile: How did you first hear of them?

Wikipedia (i shiat you not, i go by obscure genre usually), Friends, File sharing


So, when you're looking for new music, you hit Wikipedia? Hell, I guess everyone IS doing it wrong then, that's all a band has to do to get the word out? Take an awesome band, put up a wiki, and now they can feed themselves while entertaining you?

You know better, but you refuse to admit you are, in one way or another, informed about the things you like because of the marketing efforts of people who earn their living spreading the word.

I really am going to bed now, but I will close repeating this:


It absolutely amazes me how little people appreciate how hard it is for a musician to get their song in front of you for you to enjoy it.

Oh, and that 1/3 of dead artists you listen to? Guess how they first became famous enough for you to hear about them in the first place...

Marketing.
 
2010-01-28 03:43:55 AM
Occam's Nailfile: It absolutely amazes me how little people appreciate how hard it is for a musician to get their song in front of you for you to enjoy it.

And we're all telling you: The Internet has changed that completely.

No, I won't hear every song released. But, thats not how information on the internet works. Its all organized, categorized, linked, hashed...

I'm telling you its just as likely (more likely, actually) that one of my friends sends me a youtube link to a music video and I enjoy it than it is for me to enjoy shiat you're trying to shove in my face.
 
2010-01-28 04:04:49 AM
Occam, listen.
You're arguing with people with a different view of how music should be done - even I'm one of them, I Torrent things - lots of things.

This can be applied to multiple things.
But, lets start off:
I will buy an album I like from iTunes if I like the artist - because its 99 cents a pop, and I can appreciate that.
I don't buy CDs, because they overprice them beyond reason.

I don't support artists who whore out for money, if they do it for the music and just happen to be successful, more power to them.

Now, let's discuss how I found my favorite artists.

Imogen Heap - Pandora!
Owl City - Youtube!
Daft Punk - Youtube!
Blue Man Group - Youtube!

Everything else out there is just a white-wash of shiatty pop artists. Indie's will never compete with Pop artists on the TV, radio, and the like, not in this age, until the RIAA finally pushes up flowers. For an Indie to be successful, you need to get a good fanbase going - put your music on Pandora, Youtube, and many other places where it's free. You'll get a fanbase,and start selling music if you distribute it digitally. You can have an entire support for your group by reducing real-life advertisements to nil, and supporting your entire group digitally - for free!
 
2010-01-28 04:07:37 AM
CentralSmith: Everything else out there is just a white-wash of shiatty pop artists. Indie's will never compete with Pop artists on the TV, radio, and the like, not in this age, until the RIAA finally pushes up flowers. For an Indie to be successful, you need to get a good fanbase going - put your music on Pandora, Youtube, and many other places where it's free. You'll get a fanbase,and start selling music if you distribute it digitally. You can have an entire support for your group by reducing real-life advertisements to nil, and supporting your entire group digitally - for free!

You're forgetting one thing;

The Internet is just a fad.
 
2010-01-28 04:24:27 AM
I'm glad i know the majority of the people at my local cable company.

Small town mom & pop style. They do not keep records connecting individual IP addresses and customer info...

sure you have an issue they can look up your account and pull the info on your modem and blah blah blah. However they do not keep records that indicate this information (you're re provisioned or whatever, they don't know what IP you had yesterday).

They do this intentionally. If Mr. Law S. Uit comes to them and says 'I need to know who is using x.x.x.x' they are not obligated to provide that information (and they won't). If someone made a stink about it, the info would be lost long before it ended up in anyone's hands. Now if someone says 'you have a guy forging bank sites and stealing account info' they will johnny on the spot before you know what happened.

Why? Because they support their customers and have some measure of morality. If someone is ACTUALLY CAUSING HARM they will do what they can to stop it. But if someone is trying to shove a giant legal **** down their customers' throat, they have your back.

This is why i love small privately owned ISPs. Even if i pay more for less (which i don't), that type of intimacy, privacy and security is something the Comcasts and Verizons can never offer me.
 
2010-01-28 04:58:32 AM
Welcome to the future.
farm3.static.flickr.com
The same thing that happened to Jammie Thomas-Rasset can happen to anyone, even if you're not file sharing. Remember the little old lady who was sued by the RIAA for file sharing hardcore gangsa rap (she was using an older Mac that has no comparable file sharing software) or the dead guy who got sued and the RIAA tried to get his grieving family to pay up? It's not too late to put an end to this nonsense before it becomes world wide and yes you can do something to stop it. (http://www.eff.org/issues/acta (new window))
 
2010-01-28 05:31:48 AM
Occam's Nailfile

"You do that. You go get a band onto iTunes, do zero marketing, and see how well that works out.

Clueless, the lot of you. Good night."


Have you even tried to get your "band" on iTunes?

I have a feeling you have never even looked into it, because it is actually quite simple. Cost you about 35 bucks an album, plus a small cut of the download revenue, but if your band is as great as you claim they are, that shouldn't be so bad.

http://homerecording.about.com/od/duplicatingdistributing/a/Get_On_iTunes.htm

I guess you really are incompetent. Your band should fire your ass....

//going to bed, not going to argue,
///thanks for making me waste 2 minutes googling how to get onto iTunes, and another 3 minutes typing this out.
 
2010-01-28 06:40:59 AM
Shwirv: You can blame this whole mess on Bush. When he was President he did not set regulations and standards on file-sharing. His complete oversight of such a pressing and contemporary matter shows how out of touch he was with the American people. Now it's poor Obama that must clean up the pieces, once again, of Bush's failed presidency.

Now you can blame it on Obama, who has been in for a year, in this "mess," and STILL hasn't cleaned it up. Remember, he's in office now, and has been for a year, not Bush.

/let the Obama bashing begin
//gets popcorn
 
2010-01-28 07:08:51 AM
People_are_Idiots - If you or anyone else in this country thinks Obama should have fixed Bush's mess in less than a year, then you should have your head examined. It will take at least the rest of Obama's Presidency - provided he gets two terms, to get things turned around. He said so himself when he was elected.

/get real
//Bush screwed all of us
 
2010-01-28 07:12:10 AM
Shwirv: Now it's poor Obama that must clean up the pieces, once again, of Bush's failed presidency.

Ya, I'm gonna hold my breath for that one.
 
2010-01-28 07:39:27 AM
Moral realities most people don't tell children: sometimes stealing is right, because sometimes the bastards deserve it.

If I ever catch my kid paying for music, movies, or video games, I'll tan his hide.
 
2010-01-28 07:53:41 AM
Dr.Zom: She's the Toolmaster now....

Does that role come with Slacks?
 
2010-01-28 08:21:15 AM
Occam's Nailfile: I have an artist right now, an indie band out of Columbus, that is trying to sell their EP

What are they called?

You know, since you're trying to promote their music, you have no link in your profile and don't even mention their name when referring directly to them in a comment.
 
2010-01-28 08:30:35 AM
Occam's Nailfile: Think of a band you like. How did you first hear of them?

REM - Heard them on the radio.

Shins - Heard them on the soundtrack of Garden State.

David Devant and His Spirit Wife - Heard a clip of them on "That Mitchell and Webb Look", searched for the lyrics, found the name of the band, downloaded the concert MP3s they gave away on their website.
 
2010-01-28 08:39:13 AM
The RIAA just don't want a bad precedent set for them, they need to keep it on record for high damages... any reduction reduces their leverage in courts..

They are using an obsolete business model and trying to get the gov't and courts to prop them up because they refuse to adjust..

the RECORDING (not music) industry is dying as people move further and further away from physical products and purchase more digital products. They don't want this, all their money came from selling plastic disks with music on it.

Costs for people to record their own stuff has gone way down, to the point where for just a couple of grand you can produce near studio quality recordings and distribute for practically nothing. They realize that they are no longer necessary and are trying to have the gov't create laws/treaties that will preserve their industry..

These are the death throes... and I think it's going to take maybe 5-10 years for them to die out completely.. things are going to get a lot worse before they get better..
 
2010-01-28 08:46:22 AM
leadmetal: Nothing like an obsolete business model kept alive by government for those it favors.

It isn't the cop-math like losses they claim from file sharing, it's that file sharing represents a mode of distribution that renders the record companies obsolete. What could happen is that bands may find they have little need for record companies and then the way these companies have lived off the creativity of song writers and performers since the sale of sheet music in the 19th century will come to an end.


There was a whole discussion of the entire subject on the last season of Lugradio (new window), and Jono Bacon, Ubuntu Community Manager and musician, decided to cut a Creative Commons album, and see if publishing without the RIAA involved was feasable. The album is over at the Severed Fifth website (new window). Warning, its "Cookie Monster" metal, and not to my taste, but let's give him some fark support to show that it is feasable to go your own way...And weaken the RIAA's grip.
 
2010-01-28 09:10:31 AM
As a musician I hate the RIAA. As a consumer I still hate them.


If they get their million plus from this woman, then will the money go to the 24 artists who were harmed by the sharing. The answer is that, no it will not. It goes to their lawyers. They aren't protecting any musicians from anything. All they are trying to do is satisfy their own greed.

Record companies are no longer necessary except maybe as a distrubition warehouse. A middleman. You can get just as good of a recording at home as you can in a studio anymore, so you don't need a record companies money to fund 40k for tracking an album. You don't need their money to put the cover together or anything else. You just need a way to produce a large quantity of cd's and then distribute them.

Unless of course you go all digital and have no actual cd's.

Fark the riaa
 
2010-01-28 09:37:11 AM
Here's a question. Let's say I'm a singer in a successful band. I decide I want people to be able to listen to my music on youtube. So I sign up for a YouTube account and start putting up songs.

Am I going to get in trouble? You never see "This song removed at the request of [band name]" but instead "This song removed at the request of [record label]".
 
2010-01-28 09:55:38 AM
Nelly Furtaco: Moral realities most people don't tell children: sometimes stealing is right, because sometimes the bastards deserve it.

If I ever catch my kid paying for music, movies, or video games, I'll tan his hide.


I used to be extremely anti-pirate, at least for videogames and the like, until Bethesda shiat on everyone releasing different DLC for Fallout 3 that broke each other. In other words, DLC #1 worked until DLC #2 was installed, but if you uninstalled #1 and reinstalled it after #2 was installed it worked, #3 works fine, but #4 broke #2 which farked up #1, and if you install #5, it broke #1 to where #2 couldn't be played past a certain point anymore unless #5 was completely uninstalled and left uninstalled (but in order to reinstall #2 to play it all the way through again you'd have to reinstall #1,2,3 and 4 in a certain order, but your refrigerator must be facing East and your couch aligned with the constellation Orion in order for everything to work).

After that bullshiat nonsense, it isn't like I'm never going to pay for a game again.... Hell, I've dropped about $350 in the last couple weeks on some new kickass stuff. But as for anything from Bethesda... Fark them. Fark them good and hard. They still haven't fixed problems with their DLC that has been out for over a year now, and paying up to an additional $10-15 each, they can kiss my ass. They'll be lucky if they get another dime from me.
 
2010-01-28 09:59:36 AM
benlonghair: Here's a question. Let's say I'm a singer in a successful band. I decide I want people to be able to listen to my music on youtube. So I sign up for a YouTube account and start putting up songs.

Possibly. If you are using someone to distribute your music, there may be something in your contract that says only they are allowed to distribute it, since any other form of distribution is money out of their pocket.

But recently (thanks to the rise of cheap/free programs to allow for recording and mixing music), it is relatively easy for bands to just distribute their own content. With a couple thousand dollars upfront, you can either make your own CDs or have them made professionally (with no distribution contract).
 
2010-01-28 10:10:04 AM
$1.92 million for 24 songs? If I shared 60000 of my illegally downloaded songs that would be a mere $4.8 billion. LOL anyone want FTP access?
 
2010-01-28 10:10:25 AM
Regardless of what people think about this case, And even if the riaa does get a favorable million dollar jugment. How are they going to collect?

The woman is on welfare and has kids.

Are they going to take her kids away and throw her in prison?

Are they going to take her welfare checks and then have her kinds taken away thusly making her homeless?

I think the outrage would destroy them. Why not cut their losses and make the fine $200 per song and move on.

They are in a no win situation in my opinion.
 
2010-01-28 10:12:14 AM
RanDomino: Intellectual property is theft!

1/10. way too direct. It needs to be more like "she knows she's guilty, she should just settle" (even though that would set aside precedent)
 
2010-01-28 10:25:19 AM
spookidooki: StoneColdAtheist: Good luck with that proxy thing, but don't worry...there are still plenty of folks riding bare back.

So is your software just targeting gnutella? ED2k? Bittorrent? All of them? Is it just IP harvesting?

What is the plan when protocols with heavy encryption and source address rewriting mature? Like freenet/gnunet/waste? What is the plan when completely anonymous darknets become easy to join?

Whats the attitude like with the recent shift from monolithic public trackers to people just trading swarm hashes and/or using private trackers?

I'm curious, its fun to watch the technology evolve.


Spooki, EIP. I want to talk to you about something.
 
2010-01-28 10:27:03 AM
i240.photobucket.com

\ten years and they're still losing the battle. hang it up.
 
2010-01-28 10:50:40 AM
I think they should just charge her $2 a song and move on.
 
2010-01-28 12:15:55 PM
This vicious, headline grabbing War on Change and Relevancy is the RIAA's attempt to scare clueless old people away from downloading even from legitimate places like the Apple store so that the sheeple continue flocking to Walmart and Best Buy to purchase CDs.
 
2010-01-28 12:16:57 PM
Lollerwaffle: Unknown_Poltroon: fark these asses. im gonna go find some music to download, any suggestions?? Female vocalists, acoustic preferably.

The only female vocalist I listen to much regularly is Imogen Heap.


Thanks a lot. You just made me think of Imogen Thomas. I'd be in my bunk, but you had to do this when I'm not home.
 
2010-01-28 12:41:04 PM
Unknown_Poltroon: fark these asses. im gonna go find some music to download, any suggestions?? Female vocalists, acoustic preferably.

Sia - Some People Have Real Problems.
 
2010-01-28 01:51:08 PM
Veteran of the Cola Wars: RIAA can go eat lutefisk contract incurable super-gonorrhea and die live forever.


Fixed.


I used to buy 10-15 CDs a year. Now it's a rare occasion if I buy 2 in the same year. Soon I expect there won't be any non-independent music I'll bother to pay for and because of RIAA, I'm rather happy about that.
 
2010-01-28 02:27:12 PM
Frankly, I'm too lazy to read all of the comments. But I must say Peer Guardian is your friend. Download and use it every time you want to p2p file share.

Oh ya, those of you that say this shiat ---->"It absolutely amazes me how little people appreciate how hard it is for a musician to get their song in front of you for you to enjoy it."

This is a big load of crap. I'm a musician, as are most of my friends. Not a single one of us is against file sharing. The way we think about it, is that at least people are sharing our music. If you are playing music for the money, then you are in the wrong business. Now go fark yourselves.
 
2010-01-28 02:37:12 PM
chewychomp: Frankly, I'm too lazy to read all of the comments. But I must say Peer Guardian is your friend. Download and use it every time you want to p2p file share.

Oh ya, those of you that say this shiat ---->"It absolutely amazes me how little people appreciate how hard it is for a musician to get their song in front of you for you to enjoy it."

This is a big load of crap. I'm a musician, as are most of my friends. Not a single one of us is against file sharing. The way we think about it, is that at least people are sharing our music. If you are playing music for the money, then you are in the wrong business. Now go fark yourselves.


Be careful, friend. Peer Guardian, while good, is not fool-proof. I got clipped by Warner a few weeks back.
 
2010-01-28 02:37:16 PM
Somaticasual: You know, I'd be willing to bet the RIAA has someone they pay to do nothing but google "RIAA"..

Sounds dumb enough for them to do, when such a thing could be done pretty easily with a program running on a standard office computer. I bet you're right.

/Idiots.
//Not you Somaticasual, RIAA.
 
2010-01-28 03:25:18 PM
Has anyone explained to Occam's Nailfile that if he and his clients aren't getting rich in their chosen field, then maybe that field has no potential? And when he's talking people out of suicide at 4AM when their dreams are crushed, maybe he should be reconsidering building up those dreams in the first place and working in an industry with out-dated methods to fuel these hopes and dreams?

Just seems to me that he is holding onto an unneeded and obsolete role in the system that has evolved to not need his services. It's like trying to open a VHS movie store today, and biatching about people dubbing your rental movies. DVDs are the standard now, buddy, and you didn't see Blockbuster cling to VHS and disavow DVD.

Now this doesn't justify copyright infringement (go ahead, call it stealing, you parrots. fark off and come back when you understand the propaganda you've been fed). I don't agree with the current copyright code, but until they get changed (ie: so as long as RIAA still has money to buy lawmakers) we have to abide by them. Infringing isn't helping the situation. However, one can still stick it to the man by not buying CDs from the RIAA labels or artists. Support bands you like by going to shows, buying directly from the band, or even just donating money to them (know how many little local bands would love if you bought them a round of beers?!).

Occam here is just a vampire defending his bloodthirst while feeding misinformed artists the corporate line, suckering them into signing contracts to give away their art. fark you.
 
2010-01-28 03:27:06 PM
MrCrazyInsane: Be careful, friend. Peer Guardian, while good, is not fool-proof. I got clipped by Warner a few weeks back.

any alternative suggestions?
 
2010-01-28 03:44:40 PM
img32.imageshack.us
/nuff said.
 
2010-01-28 03:49:07 PM
Dark_Wolf77: /nuff said.

i55.photobucket.com
 
2010-01-28 04:03:40 PM
@Unknown_Poltroon: try looking for some of the verve remixes. remixes of verve soul classics now with just a little more bass then the originals :)

Fark the RIAA and the entire US scheme of selling invisible property - we pay in cash that equals real property and in return we get little discs with NO value, to eat, to use, and especially apparently, to reuse.

We as a country have allowed the media to take our houses and our cities for sugar spun sex dreams. They are experts at limbic system manipulation.

There is no honor, and there is no future for them, that's a mission statement and a state-of-the-union - MAFIAA (music and film industry association of america) YOU ARE USELESS. Thanks for teaching a whole generation how music is more important then science. DIAF, you succeed because you target our children, who haven't the maturity to comprehend the psychology you rape (rape rape) they're expectation of life with
 
2010-01-28 04:23:39 PM
spookidooki: Occam's Nailfile: If I tear the stereo out of your car, you haven't been hurt, but I still robbed your ass.

I protest to you taking my copy of that stereo. But, you are free to use your magic item duplicator and make yourself a copy.

Its not that I don't want artists to eat, its that I want these retarded analogies to stop.


You're both wrong, and both right. Allow me to present a better analogy.

Either of you see Deadwood? If not... well go watch it, really quite good, but that's not the point. The point is that in the very first episode there's a scene where Seth Bullock (Timothy Olyphant, yes from Die Hard 4) and his business partner Sol Star are opening their hardware store (tent, really) for business in Deadwood for the first time. Seth and Sol are pitching their wares, y'know, "boots, $5" and so on, when this guy wanders into the crowd holding a bar of soap. Breaking open the soap he laughs and says (paraphrasing), "well I'll be... that bastard said there might be a $5 prize in here," then goes on say that another, competing hardware store down the road randomly puts $5 in their bars of soap that they sell. Suddenly half the crowd is much more interested in this other store; people start peeling away to go down the road as the guy with the soap keeps remarking on how good his luck is. Seth, however, has seen this grift before; he steps forward and in a quiet, stern voice tells the a-hole with the soap to run his scam somewhere else, which he does.

Okay, you clear on the scene? Timothy Olyphant trying to sell things? Grifter with soap stealing his business with promise of a better offer? Yeah?

The Record Industry is Seth and Sol.

Filesharers are the asshole with the soap.

And yeah, it's not a perfect analogy. The soap guy was being malicious, but not every filesharer is. Similarly, there's arguments to be made that if it were to be a proper analogy Seth and Sol should be selling their wares for 8x the price after pistolwhipping all of the other competitors into giving them all of their goods for pennies on the dollar. The type of "loss of business" is the same though: people see an impossibly better offer (of disreputable origins) and go for it.

/There are no heroes in this situation, unlike Deadwood
//Filesharers still are better in my book
///Barely
 
2010-01-28 04:30:03 PM
ehlroy: MrCrazyInsane: Be careful, friend. Peer Guardian, while good, is not fool-proof. I got clipped by Warner a few weeks back.

any alternative suggestions?


I'm tooling around with proxies, but the earlier posts about darknets have me intrigued...
 
2010-01-28 05:04:15 PM
Unknown_Poltroon: fark these asses. im gonna go find some music to download, any suggestions?? Female vocalists, acoustic preferably.

Free Dominguez, formerly of Kidneythieves. Her solo album Freedoming is well worth a listen. Plenty of acoustic going on there.
 
2010-01-28 05:11:57 PM
WhyteRaven74 2010-01-27 11:08:04 PM
Someone needs to press the RIAA on their authority to even file these lawsuits.



WTF? Anyone can file a lawsuit and it seems to me filing suit against those who steal your property is more than valid.


Don't like it?

DON'T STEAL!
 
2010-01-28 06:26:07 PM
Occam's Nailfile

When people talk about "The Man," they're referring to you. How does that make you feel? Not so good?
 
2010-01-28 06:38:17 PM
RIAA, meet RICO. RICO, meet RIAA. Shake, shake.

(yeah yeah, its not racketeering when lawyers do it ... )
 
2010-01-28 07:52:15 PM
What's the best way to not get caught using bittorrent?
 
2010-01-28 08:05:08 PM
badaboom: What's the best way to not get caught using bittorrent?

The best way to "not get caught" doing anything is to not do it.
 
2010-01-28 08:08:57 PM
libbynomore2: WhyteRaven74 2010-01-27 11:08:04 PM
Someone needs to press the RIAA on their authority to even file these lawsuits.


WTF? Anyone can file a lawsuit and it seems to me filing suit against those who steal your property is more than valid.


Don't like it?

DON'T STEAL!


Couldn't you guys at least find your own line of argument?
"It's property, so it's stealing" is the exact parallel to "They're babies, so it's murder." And about as convincing.
 
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