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(YouTube)   Richard Winters, Commander of Easy Company during World War II, turns 92 today. Here's a clip from "Band of Brothers"   (youtube.com ) divider line
    More: Hero  
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7040 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jan 2010 at 2:14 AM (6 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



249 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2010-01-21 12:03:53 AM  
Even if I had 5 dicks and 10 balls, he would be more of a man than me.
 
2010-01-21 12:12:47 AM  
You, sir, are a national treasure. Happy birthday.
 
2010-01-21 12:15:18 AM  
Is this on cable? Because I don't get it and I don't speak european.

And I've never seen 'The Wire' either.

Seriously.

Sincerely,

Demi-Troll
 
2010-01-21 12:33:53 AM  
Why he doesn't have a medal of honor is beyond me
 
2010-01-21 12:35:00 AM  
 
2010-01-21 12:52:20 AM  
Currahee!
 
2010-01-21 01:04:05 AM  

Staffist: Is this on cable? Because I don't get it and I don't speak european.

And I've never seen 'The Wire' either.

Seriously.

Sincerely,

Demi-Troll


You've never seen Band of Brothers before? You don't know what you're missing.

Here's a clip of when Major Winters led the attack on Brecourt Manor to take out the German artillery that was firing down on Utah Beach. (^)(NSFW language)

And here's a Wiki of the details of the "Brecourt Manor Assault". (^)
 
2010-01-21 01:04:49 AM  
I think I watched the series when it ran on History Channel. They had actual soldiers comment before and after each episode. Speaking about Major Winters one soldiers tearfully said something along the lines of "Some fo the things he did were beyond courage. Frankly I don't know how he survived. But he did."

/still gives me goosebumps to think about it
 
2010-01-21 01:22:39 AM  

bulldg4life: Why he doesn't have a medal of honor is beyond me


Because quite frankly, you'd have to issue a Medal to just about every man in the 82nd and 101st Airborne. The sh*t they did over the course of WW2... f*cking unreal.

/Still can't re-watch "Why We Fight".
//Wept like a baby the first time around.
 
2010-01-21 01:43:12 AM  

Occam's Chainsaw: /Still can't re-watch "Why We Fight".
//Wept like a baby the first time around.


My jaw was set so tightly while watching that it gave me a headache.
 
2010-01-21 02:19:00 AM  
Happy Birthday, Sir.
 
2010-01-21 02:19:36 AM  
Fark ought to get together and lobby to get this man a Medal of Honor. He deserves one, for all he did for this country, it is the least we could do as Fark jockeys.
 
2010-01-21 02:21:36 AM  
Happy birfday, Mr. Winters. And thank you.
 
2010-01-21 02:25:49 AM  
www.gasolinealleyantiques.com

RIP Jonathan Winters
 
2010-01-21 02:25:51 AM  
Some guys know how to get things done.
 
2010-01-21 02:26:02 AM  
Is there a way we can get this thread out to Maj Winters? I too would like to wish him a happy Birthday, and he is a major (no pun) reason why I'll be leaving to the Air Force come June(ish)

Happy Birthday, Sir. Thank you and your men for all you did for us.
~Nontentional
 
2010-01-21 02:26:30 AM  
Here's a more appropriate clip IMHO, featuring the actual guy instead of the actor portraying him:

Link (new window)

Not that there's anything wrong with the other clip. Or with Damien Lewis, I like him too.

Anyway, happy birthday, Major Winters.
 
2010-01-21 02:27:11 AM  

bulldg4life: Why he doesn't have a medal of honor is beyond me


There was a rule in place at the time that only one man from a division could earn a CMOH. Richard Cole had already gotten one for the 101st. There's a petition going to try to get one for him.
 
2010-01-21 02:29:34 AM  
imagecache2.allposters.com


RIP Shelley Winters
 
2010-01-21 02:29:55 AM  
"Band of Brothers" fans will be very happy to hear about the upcoming HBO series "The Pacific" in March.
 
2010-01-21 02:32:13 AM  
Thankyou Major Winters for your exceptional courage, sacrifice and leadership. May you continue to enjoy the fruits of the world you created for myself and my generation.

What you did I don't think I could ever do. And because you did it then, I don't have to do it today.

Thankyou.
 
2010-01-21 02:38:01 AM  
So why did the link have a Nazi making a speech? Is submitter some kind of fascist sympathizer?
 
2010-01-21 02:39:35 AM  
to this day when i finish watching the final episode of band of brothers i just sigh and realize how empty my life is compared to theirs. the fact that no matter what i ever do, it will pale in comparison to what they did, is simply frightening to me.
 
2010-01-21 02:44:48 AM  
Happy Birthday Sir! Hero tag well deserved!

/Have been watching Band of Brothers again on DVD lately.
 
2010-01-21 02:44:50 AM  
According to the forums on his site, there is a bill in Congress to award him what he and his men deserve. It is the third such bill, and hopefully it is passed through.
 
2010-01-21 02:51:31 AM  

Oznog: RIP Jonathan Winters


Beat me to it, you bastard.
 
2010-01-21 02:54:49 AM  

themeatcleaver: to this day when i finish watching the final episode of band of brothers i just sigh and realize how empty my life is compared to theirs. the fact that no matter what i ever do, it will pale in comparison to what they did, is simply frightening to me.


No it is not. They had a job to do and they did it. Many people sacrifice their lives for the same reason today. Your life is not empty as long as you do something with it. Work for a charity, adopt a kid, do something to help other people out. Being a soldier doesn't make your life "full". Being the best you can be for the sake of others is.
 
2010-01-21 02:57:44 AM  

spawn73: Actual history Germany needed to destroy 6 US tanks for every time they lost 1. They barely achieved it.

We don't see that humiliation in that series do we?


Because the known inadequacies of the Sherman tank have so much to do with freakish heroics of the 101st Airborne Infantry.
 
2010-01-21 02:58:42 AM  
Ahhh i'm tired. Just Being a soldier doesn't make your life "full". Being the best you can be for the sake of others is. That is why those men are heroes to me. They did it for the others. The men they served with, the wives they left at home, and for their children.

\just wanted to clarify that a bit.
 
2010-01-21 02:59:54 AM  
Somebody posting in this thread is speaking out of turn. Several episodes showed Allied troops getting pounded, like in Market-Garden, and then in the Ardennes during the battle of the bulge. Neither the series nor Ambrose's book glamorized allied victories or minimized their losses.
 
2010-01-21 03:01:05 AM  
I was always fascinated by the character of Herbert Sobel.

He was apparantly a damn-good trainer, but had no actual ability to lead in battle.
 
2010-01-21 03:03:14 AM  
I'll be raising a pint or several on Friday night and toasting him then.

Until than, Happy Birthday, and thank you for your service, sir.
 
2010-01-21 03:04:21 AM  
Until than then, Happy Birthday, and thank you for your service, sir.

//Fixed that for me
//Pet peeve
 
2010-01-21 03:04:33 AM  
This is why we'll never win the Global War on Terrorism. There is no unified group to surrender.

*Hand Salute* Sir.

We ain't learned shiat since 1945. Sorry 'bout that.
 
2010-01-21 03:14:52 AM  
This man's balls have 4 moons and a communications satellite that broadcasts the national anthem 24/7 orbiting them.
 
2010-01-21 03:15:03 AM  
....we should thank God such men live(d).
 
2010-01-21 03:15:30 AM  
Occam's Chainsaw, bighasbeen:
Everyone who makes a statement like "Soandso is Hitler!" or "Soandso is a nazi!" should be required to watch "Why We Fight". Not because Soandso is not a deplorable example of a human being or a facist, but because it makes people forget what Hitler and the Nazis really did. When "Nazi" means someone who commits some relatively minor offense against personal freedom, what becomes of the real Nazis?
 
2010-01-21 03:15:55 AM  
*salute*

My fiancee's great-uncle was Darrell "Shifty" Powers in the same company. I'm sad I never met him before he died, he was apparently a great guy and a fine storyteller, but good to have that sort of blood in my (future) family.

/only WWII connection in my own family was a bomber pilot, MIA over Germany, RIP Uncle Mick
//the rest were doctors, never really in harm's way but doing a sterling job nonetheless
 
2010-01-21 03:17:04 AM  
From one combat vet to another: Thank you, Sir! Enjoy your birthday.

*Salutes*
 
2010-01-21 03:17:26 AM  
Happy B-day Dick. You have deserved them all.
 
660
2010-01-21 03:18:01 AM  
Suck it, spawn73
Hat off to Dick Winters
 
2010-01-21 03:18:34 AM  
While stationed in Europe, I made it a point to visit every WWI and II site I could find, rain or shine. Graveyards, shrines, obscure royal safe houses...anything I could get my hands on.

It cannot be understated how much was lost during those wars. Their ricochets will be forever felt.

/I sound fun
 
2010-01-21 03:18:41 AM  
Airbus-Driver: When "Nazi" means someone who commits some relatively minor offense against personal freedom, what becomes of the real Nazis?

They're still dead.
 
2010-01-21 03:23:09 AM  

Airbus-Driver: Everyone who makes a statement like "Soandso is Hitler!" or "Soandso is a nazi!" should be required to watch "Why We Fight". Not because Soandso is not a deplorable example of a human being or a facist, but because it makes people forget what Hitler and the Nazis really did. When "Nazi" means someone who commits some relatively minor offense against personal freedom, what becomes of the real Nazis?


The inverse of that sentiment: when someone is behaving in a manner reminiscent of (or identical to) the Nazis, calling them out on it is not a Godwin. The demonization of the Nazis as the ultimate bad guys of all time ever is almost as bad as apologism. The lesson that we should take away from that time period is that perfectly normal people can be lead into horrific things under the right circumstances.
 
2010-01-21 03:29:22 AM  
Good clip subby. Happy BDay Major Winters!

/Band of Brothers series FTW.
// The book is better.
 
2010-01-21 03:29:32 AM  
terryfrank.netwww.heroesforever.nl


Share the same birthday.

 
2010-01-21 03:36:01 AM  
Enough with the posts addressed directly to him. He doesn't read FARK, he's too busy pounding some hot nonagenarian trim.
 
2010-01-21 03:36:29 AM  

evilsofa: upcoming HBO series "The Pacific" in March.


F*cking SWEET. There's remnants of WWII Japanese military all over where I live, including a tank parked next to the post office.

SpeckledJim: /only WWII connection in my own family was a bomber pilot, MIA over Germany, RIP Uncle Mick


Mine is my grandfather. He was a Navy Seabee stationed on Tinian. He mostly blew up coral to build the runways. On his spare time he developed photos for people.

Mind blowing stuff...
 
2010-01-21 03:36:35 AM  

bigwave: Share the same birthday.


coincidence? i think not.
 
2010-01-21 03:40:11 AM  

spawn73: Comparing Band of Brothers with actual history is kinda dumb, look at it as fiction.

Actual history Germany needed to destroy 6 US tanks for every time they lost 1. They barely achieved it.

We don't see that humiliation in that series do we?


Or how about Germany smashing through the lines, unstoppable, but eventually stopped when cloud cover went (so they could be bombed), and ran out of fuel. Untill at that point it was a German massacre on the US troops, any mention? Nope.


farm3.static.flickr.com

That being said: Happy 92 Sir, loved you in Life and Wariors.

/My b-day is tomorrow if anyone wants to get me something....
 
2010-01-21 03:48:00 AM  
Deveyn: Mind blowing stuff...

My uncle was in the Canadian Army, got called up in 1940. By the time he landed at Normandy on D-Day he had already been fighting for over 3 years. Needless to say he has some great stories. One time I asked him why he didn't mind talking about it, why it didn't seem to bother him, etc. and he told me, "I wish I could go back in time and kill all those bastards over again. I f*cking hate Nazis."
 
2010-01-21 03:52:59 AM  
Never saw, nor have I ever heard of "Band of Brothers". I have no idea why something like that could have escaped my notice. Just spent a good 3/4 of an hour reading up on Richard Winters and company. Going to get the DVDs of the series by hook or by crook today, along with the book.

I really am shocked that I never heard of this before. I'm sure my Dad (a WWII vet and historian of that era) must have had discussed 'easy company' at one time or another - I just don' remember. God knows he lectured us on everything else having to due with the war, its heroes and criminals.
 
2010-01-21 04:01:03 AM  
o7

Salute this hero.

These men lived like giants.

No matter our accomplishments, we will likely and rightfully be dwarfed by their legacy. The bravest of us have been molded after their image, and even the bravest of us pray to never be tested as they were.

A fight so terrible and necessary it may be hundreds of years before we must remind ourselves with a similar conflict.

Fighting it with the courage they did, above the hardships, all that alone makes these men the very embodiment of duty and selfless sacrifice. Fighting and winning? Well, I don't have the words to do it justice.

They truly were the greatest generation and men like Winters were the best that that generation had to offer. The very best of the best.
 
2010-01-21 04:13:04 AM  
Happy birthday Richard Winters. Truly the greatest generation *salute*
 
2010-01-21 04:24:54 AM  
Let me get this, someone brought up Band of Brothers and I said I found it historically inaccurate.

And I'll add, stupid and needless one sided glorification.

---

You mouth breathers want to construe that as me attacking Richard Winters, then you're as stupid as I know you are.
 
2010-01-21 04:25:04 AM  
spawn73, yes, they were good militarily, better than anyone particularly at the beginning of the war. plenty of allied soldiers, including winters, would testify to that. they were outnumbered and crushed. anything that happened afterwards is a side issue.
 
2010-01-21 04:27:03 AM  
Happy Birthday Maj. Winters

/read Beyond Band of Brothers!!
 
2010-01-21 04:29:42 AM  
Keep a rockin', Major.
 
2010-01-21 04:31:01 AM  
i1.ytimg.com

Happy Birthday, Winter Steele!
 
2010-01-21 04:39:31 AM  

Jamieboy: I really am shocked that I never heard of this before. I'm sure my Dad (a WWII vet and historian of that era) must have had discussed 'easy company' at one time or another - I just don' remember. God knows he lectured us on everything else having to due with the war, its heroes and criminals.


You had to of talked about it at some point. Bastogne and the "Nuts," reply to the request of surrender from the Germans is one of the more "holy crap how did they do that," stories from WWII.

As for people with veteran relatives: I had a grand-uncle in the infantry (forget which division) who got a bronze star and at least one purple heart, another uncle who served with Patton and helped liberate some of the camps, he never fully recovered from that.
 
2010-01-21 04:43:58 AM  
Ok so my opinion of the best armies in ww2:
1. German
2. England
3. Russia
4. America
5. Australia/Poland
6. Finland
7. Japan
109. Italia ;)
 
2010-01-21 04:44:08 AM  
spawn73:

You know how I know you aren't speaking German?
 
2010-01-21 04:44:53 AM  

spawn73: Let me get this, someone brought up Band of Brothers and I said I found it historically inaccurate.


Well, to be fair, BoB was about Easy Company, and not the armored divisions you mentioned.

I seriously doubt you've seen this series, as they showed the Americans getting their asses handed to them on more than one occasion.

Maybe they should have included an episode about April 9, 1940, and the Weserübung.

You might be familiar with that one. It's the day when Denmark was occupied by the Germans, which lasted until the end of the war.

They surrendered before noon the day of the invasion. It was the shortest campaign of WWII for Germany.
 
2010-01-21 04:49:41 AM  

BesiktasBoy83: Ok so my opinion of the best armies in ww2:
1. German
2. England
3. Russia
4. America
5. Australia/Poland
6. Finland
7. Japan
109. Italia ;)


#1 goes to the guys who lost.


Nice list.
 
2010-01-21 04:50:44 AM  

Deveyn:
Mine is my grandfather. He was a Navy Seabee stationed on Tinian. He mostly blew up coral to build the runways. On his spare time he developed photos for people.

Mind blowing stuff...


Was he there during any of the atomic testing?
 
2010-01-21 04:55:08 AM  

BesiktasBoy83: Ok so my opinion of the best armies in ww2:
1. German
2. England
3. Russia
4. America
5. Australia/Poland
6. Finland
7. Japan
109. Italia ;)


Finland should be way higher on that list. Stats for the Winter War between Finland and the USSR

Finnish dead and wounded: ~70,000
Soviet dead and wounded: ~ 400,000


Dang, yo

Source: Link
 
2010-01-21 04:56:25 AM  
spawn73 You type like Rorschach. The sense, you don't make it.
 
2010-01-21 04:56:51 AM  
Sorry for double post. Continuation war:

Finnish dead and wounded: ~220,000
Soviet dead and wounded: ~775,000

Source Link

Don't fark with Finland
 
2010-01-21 04:57:18 AM  

spawn73: Or the threads about heroes serving for the German side.


Heroes don't serve a regime that's responsible for the extermination of 11,000,000 million people in concentration camps. I know the regular German Army isn't in the same league as the Waffen SS, but they still served the same people.

Now, let me guess, seeing how you're from Denmark, one or more of your ancestors was a Nazi collaborator, right? Did grandpa join the Schutzstaffel and end up getting executed for gobbling Nazi schlong? Or are you just a teenage Nazi sympathizer?

spawn73: Let me get this, someone brought up Band of Brothers and I said I found it historically inaccurate.


Yes, you found it historically inaccurate. Some things have been changed and left out(did you really expect them to make a three year long movie?), but the part about them kicking the crap out of the Germans wasn't changed.

spawn73: And I'll add, stupid and needless one sided glorification.


If you'll notice, the movie series isn't called Band of Nazis, it's called Band of Brothers and it deals almost exclusively with Easy Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th PIR, 101st Airborne Division, United States Army.
 
2010-01-21 04:59:43 AM  

Airbus-Driver: Occam's Chainsaw, bighasbeen:
Everyone who makes a statement like "Soandso is Hitler!" or "Soandso is a nazi!" should be required to watch "Why We Fight". Not because Soandso is not a deplorable example of a human being or a facist, but because it makes people forget what Hitler and the Nazis really did. When "Nazi" means someone who commits some relatively minor offense against personal freedom, what becomes of the real Nazis?


I've spent a long time trying to understand where WWII came from, and Haneke's "White Ribbon" is the closest approach I've seen so far. The chilling thing about that film is not how it illuminates German Nazism (which is its obvious target) but how when watching it you can see how easily the same thing could happen slowly, anywhere else, in the same way.

The thing is not trying to understand deplorable people by looking at them, but trying to see how they are made by exploring their history. That movie is how they are made in parable form. Intolerance and suspicion are the starting points.
 
2010-01-21 04:59:54 AM  

Tsar_Bomba1: Was he there during any of the atomic testing?


As far as I know, there was no testing at Tinian. It was a Top Secret operation and for them to do any testing would be tipping their hand to their location. He did tell me however about them sitting there and watching the bombs get loaded on the plane.

Unfortunately I don't have photos of those and his wife made him get rid of all the swords, guns and other stuff he brought back. She only let him keep the pictures.

I do, however, have prints of film taken off dead Japanese after the occupation of Tinian, as well as film from the Korean concentration camps. It turns out that the Japanese were just as bad as the Nazis in the horrors that they visited upon people they didn't see as being equal to them.

He didn't talk much about the war until just before he died, when he gave me a box of pictures.
 
2010-01-21 05:00:25 AM  

nom nom nasty: Germany sucks and so do you.


So, when was the last time you visted modern-day Germany?

My generation is very grateful to the Allied forces, I can tell you.
And I definitely will raise a glass on Major Winters tonight, to him and all the others who made sure I can say whatever I want about whoever I want without having to fear for my life or my family's.

During the Third Reich Germany was on the wrong path, there is no denying that.
And the Allied forces did not only destoy an evil regime and stop a war, but they also gave the Germans the opportunity to look into the mirror and say "what the *hell* have we been doing?"

And believe me, we worked hard to get our shiat together after that.
Guess what, German envoys have been welcome mediators in the Middle East conflict, so I'd humbly claim that we made some progress in the getting-along-with-other-countries thing.

So, while I might agree that Germany sucked hairy donkey balls *during the Third Reich*, I suggest that you brush up your knowledge about the more recent history.
 
2010-01-21 05:04:16 AM  
danny_kay: So, while I might agree that Germany sucked hairy donkey balls *during the Third Reich*, I suggest that you brush up your knowledge about the more recent history.

Prost.
 
2010-01-21 05:07:29 AM  

demanton: bulldg4life: Why he doesn't have a medal of honor is beyond me

There was a rule in place at the time that only one man from a division could earn a CMOH. Richard Cole had already gotten one for the 101st. There's a petition going to try to get one for him.


It was in Congress also. Not sure how that went. The fact that taking those guns out saved numerous lives, and the map of all of the guns firing on the beach, should have warranted a medal of honor.

Bronze stars weren't good enough for the others either, that didn't get silver stars. Going in against unknown odds, helping save a huge amount of lives, deserves more.
 
2010-01-21 05:09:46 AM  

dudemanbro: danny_kay: So, while I might agree that Germany sucked hairy donkey balls *during the Third Reich*, I suggest that you brush up your knowledge about the more recent history.

Prost.


Auf die Alliierten Truppen!
www.joska.com
 
2010-01-21 05:10:07 AM  

godfatherswiss: The fact that taking those guns out saved numerous lives


It's still canon though for tactical assault. I think that speaks as loudly as a CMOH.

My guess is that he'll get it posthumously. He definitely deserves it.
 
2010-01-21 05:10:13 AM  

Oakenhelm: Don't fark with Finland


I was going to point this out too, a lot of troops from a given country were brave and did heroic things, while the Fins, as a race, were/are basically killer robots from the frozen wastes.
 
2010-01-21 05:14:22 AM  
danny_kay: Auf die Alliierten Truppen!

I'll drink to that!
/German-American
 
2010-01-21 05:18:03 AM  

Oakenhelm: Finland should be way higher on that list.


This. The Finns are not to be farked with, evidently.
 
2010-01-21 05:18:16 AM  
At the end of day Easy drank Hitler's Champagne and pissed off his balcony.
 
2010-01-21 05:30:06 AM  

nom nom nasty: Germany was badass, beer and trim was delish, I was more trying to insult spawn73.


That is one of the dumber things I've read on Fark...
 
2010-01-21 05:36:46 AM  
commodore-64-games.com

You can therefore then take great pride in the fact that you are ALL indeed "Dicks".

And Germans, I understand that humor is still somewhat of an elusive dark art to you, not to be trusted, but this post is not a "troll".
 
2010-01-21 05:41:50 AM  
Winters: [quoting from a letter Mike Ranney wrote to him]: I cherish the memory of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said: 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, "No. But I served in a company of heroes."
 
2010-01-21 05:48:53 AM  
He fought so that peaceful rule under Godwin's Law could be established.
 
2010-01-21 05:57:26 AM  
Damn, I saw the hero tag, and then read Richard Winters, and I thought he had died. :(
 
2010-01-21 06:05:15 AM  
Seriously, though, all the troops on the front in Normandy were badass. Including the Germans. You might be facing a frightened kid with a bad stomach that kept him on occupation duty for most of the war. Then again, you might be facing some poor SOB who had spent the last two years on the Russian front, lost most of his family to British or American air raids, had a burning desire to get even and the skills and equipment to make his enemies pay a helluva butcher's bill trying to make him give up his position.
 
2010-01-21 06:05:49 AM  

Oznog: RIP Jonathan Winters



Oddly enough, Jonathan Winters was a marine in the Pacific theatre during WWII.
 
2010-01-21 06:06:33 AM  
If a quarter of BOB was based on facts, they were indeed the greatest generation.
 
2010-01-21 06:16:00 AM  

cynicalbastard: Seriously, though, all the troops on the front in Normandy were badass. Including the Germans.


Agreed. On the Allied side, you're storming the very jaws of Hell, the Germans have had years to prepare, and if you're coming in after the first wave, the first sight to greet you is bloody carnage and dead comrades, horizon to horizon. On the German side, the sea is a carpet of boats, the beach is swarming with soldiers come to kill you, and no matter how many you kill, they just keep coming. It took incredible courage to do either.
 
2010-01-21 06:22:02 AM  
From one Paratrooper to an other. Happy Birthday Sir!
 
2010-01-21 06:23:42 AM  

themeatcleaver: to this day when i finish watching the final episode of band of brothers i just sigh and realize how empty my life is compared to theirs. the fact that no matter what i ever do, it will pale in comparison to what they did, is simply frightening to me.


Life is a composite of everyday decisions; their decisions were different from yours or mine. FDR said, when he took office in 1933, "This generation has a rendezvous with destiny." How true for us all. What is most mystifying to me is that my parents' generation grew up in the Depression, helped win WWII, and then gave birth to the Baby Boomers. Now there's a conundrum for you.

Comparisons are pointless; live your life well.

"Everything in the world- whatever is and whatever happens- is a test, designed to give you freedom of choice. Choose wisely."

-Rebbe Nachman of Breslov
 
2010-01-21 06:26:42 AM  
As someone who lives right around the corner from him, I would love to knock on his door and say Happy Birthday, but he is very private and likes his peace / quiet.
Did see him speak several times....Fning WOW.
 
2010-01-21 06:27:27 AM  

Occam's Chainsaw: the Germans have had years to prepare


No I think they were kind of busy in Russia, and carefully misdirected. If they really had been prepared in terms of troops and equipment - not that many compared to what they were fielding overall - the Normandy landings would have been screwed.
 
2010-01-21 06:28:48 AM  
there is a Pacific version of BoB coming out in March. i don't see how it could live up to the original, but i am excited nonethesless
 
2010-01-21 06:32:47 AM  

Occam's Chainsaw: Airbus-Driver: Everyone who makes a statement like "Soandso is Hitler!" or "Soandso is a nazi!" should be required to watch "Why We Fight". Not because Soandso is not a deplorable example of a human being or a facist, but because it makes people forget what Hitler and the Nazis really did. When "Nazi" means someone who commits some relatively minor offense against personal freedom, what becomes of the real Nazis?

The inverse of that sentiment: when someone is behaving in a manner reminiscent of (or identical to) the Nazis, calling them out on it is not a Godwin. The demonization of the Nazis as the ultimate bad guys of all time ever is almost as bad as apologism. The lesson that we should take away from that time period is that perfectly normal people can be lead into horrific things under the right circumstances.


Part of the reason I suppose I've always been fascinated by WWII is the speculation about "-how in the world could a miserable little paperhanger do that?" (although I suppose being born in '44 and growing up in the aftermath of the war and the long shadow of my father the Marine helped). Your theory is a popular one. Unfortunately, it boils down to either proposing some sort of Hitlerian hypnotism or a lack of free will, and I can's subscribe to either.

/Evil exists.
 
2010-01-21 06:38:00 AM  

Mr Logo: Damn, I saw the hero tag, and then read Richard Winters, and I thought he had died. :(


That's what I thought too. Heart skipped a beat for a second.

Paternal Great uncle Is buried in Belgium. Friendly fire got him while driving a supply truck.
paternal Grandmother was one of the first black female army officer (WAAC) that graduated from DES moines OCS

and the man who taught me to cook and whom I've missed every day since I was 12. Is my maternal grandfather who was in north Africa with the 332nd as a mechanic.
I met a man 10 years ago that was a pilot with the 99th. I asked him if he knew a little man named thierry.
He instantly said "Cal" which was my grandfathers name. Then he told some stories.

Lots of tough guys back then
 
2010-01-21 06:42:41 AM  
The German speech would've been more moving if they hadn't, one: started the farking war, and two: repeated it from November 11, 1918.
 
2010-01-21 06:53:13 AM  

SpeckledJim: No I think they were kind of busy in Russia, and carefully misdirected.


Understood. I was kinda trying to do it from the point of view of a know-nothing grunt. They weren't exactly aware that resistance was much lighter than expected.

rico567: Unfortunately, it boils down to either proposing some sort of Hitlerian hypnotism or a lack of free will, and I can's subscribe to either.


Willingness to be duped. Group conformity. The thinly-veiled threat of implicit violence. Dismissal of reports of atrocities as propaganda. There are plenty of reasons why otherwise reasonable people can be pushed into supporting monsters and tolerating inhumanity committed in their name.
 
2010-01-21 07:00:43 AM  

NewportBarGuy: This is why we'll never win the Global War on Terrorism. There is no unified group to surrender.

*Hand Salute* Sir.

We ain't learned shiat since 1945. Sorry 'bout that.


---

I concur. Other than communications technology, we've been on vacation ever since.

/Major Dick Winters is my Hero in regards to leadership.
// +Raises a pint+
 
2010-01-21 07:04:34 AM  

crab66: This man's balls have 4 moons and a communications satellite that broadcasts the national anthem 24/7 orbiting them.


This This This!

His assualt on the German guns on D Day is still being taught at West Point.
 
2010-01-21 07:25:19 AM  
nom nom nasty: Germany sucks and so do you.

ja man du spast...geh heim und fick dei mudda
 
2010-01-21 07:27:52 AM  
I live down the street from Sgt Don Malarky. The only hero I know in my town... A ground-pounder from Easy that jumped in Normandy, Market Garden and lasted through the Battle of the Bulge as his best friends were killed and wounded.

I sat and listened to him speak about his WWII experiences, shook his hand (One of the firmest shakes I've shooked) and I cherished the opportunity to meet a living hero.
 
2010-01-21 07:31:14 AM  

dudemanbro: Deveyn: Mind blowing stuff...

My uncle was in the Canadian Army, got called up in 1940. By the time he landed at Normandy on D-Day he had already been fighting for over 3 years. Needless to say he has some great stories. One time I asked him why he didn't mind talking about it, why it didn't seem to bother him, etc. and he told me, "I wish I could go back in time and kill all those bastards over again. I f*cking hate Nazis."


That's awesome.
 
2010-01-21 07:33:02 AM  

rico567: Evil exists


Evil is created by circumstance. I wouldn't quite say that Hitler is interchangeable with anyone else, because he seems to have been quite a remarkable guy, but if he hadn't started all that shiat someone else would have in that environment. Charismatic sociopaths are not in short supply.
 
2010-01-21 07:41:02 AM  

Occam's Chainsaw: Willingness to be duped. Group conformity. The thinly-veiled threat of implicit violence. Dismissal of reports of atrocities as propaganda. There are plenty of reasons why otherwise reasonable people can be pushed into supporting monsters and tolerating inhumanity committed in their name.


I find reading fark does it for me.

/Hats off to you Dick
 
2010-01-21 07:41:04 AM  
img709.imageshack.us

RIP Edgar Winter.

No wonder the Germans never managed to hit him: They couldn't see him in the snow.
 
2010-01-21 07:43:49 AM  

Occam's Chainsaw: bulldg4life: Why he doesn't have a medal of honor is beyond me

Because quite frankly, you'd have to issue a Medal to just about every man in the 82nd and 101st Airborne. The sh*t they did over the course of WW2... f*cking unreal.

/Still can't re-watch "Why We Fight".
//Wept like a baby the first time around.


This. Some of the best television/film I have ever seen.
 
2010-01-21 07:55:45 AM  
I like Winters he's a good man, but when the bullets start flying, I don't know if I want a Quaker to do my fighting for me.
 
2010-01-21 07:57:31 AM  
Demon of the Fall: That's awesome.

The funny part is that the old fart is still alive. If anyone should be dead it's him but he just keeps on...
/hanging out at the Eagles lodge, mostly
 
2010-01-21 07:59:39 AM  
Spelling and grammar, people.

It's what separates you from the monkeys.


/ salutes the good Major
 
2010-01-21 08:00:11 AM  
themeatcleaver: to this day when i finish watching the final episode of band of brothers i just sigh and realize how empty my life is compared to theirs. the fact that no matter what i ever do, it will pale in comparison to what they did, is simply frightening to me.

Watch "Saving Private Ryan". Make a note of when Capt. Miller says that he wants Ryan to make it worth it by "He better go home and cure a disease, or invent a longer-lasting light bulb. "

Contribute to society. Make other people's lives better. Teach a child. Renovate someone else's house. Cure a disease. Invent a longer lasting light bulb. That will make your life meaningful, and their sacrifice worth it.
 
2010-01-21 08:05:36 AM  
Loved, loved, loved BoB. My grandfather was a Marine at Iwo Jima, but he never, EVER, talked about it. Watching BoB gave me some idea of what he must have gone through (even though different theater, yada, yada), and I sobbed like a girl through lots of it. Incredibly powerful stuff, and it just makes you SO PROUD of those boys and what they did.

Happy Birthday Dick Winters and thanks!!

/is a girl, so not that hard to sob like a girl
 
2010-01-21 08:08:23 AM  
This man has more balls then all of Fark's users combined. Happy Birthday Sir, thank you for all you have done.
 
2010-01-21 08:11:29 AM  
Band of Brothers is the greatest thing ever to hit the screen. And it still didn't do justice to what the men of Easy Company did.
 
2010-01-21 08:14:43 AM  
The term hero is thrown around too loosely. Major Winters and his Band of Brothers are heroes. Somehow telling them thank-you, just seems way too inadequate.

"With a host of brave unknown Soldiers
For your company, you will live forever
Here in our memory
"
 
2010-01-21 08:14:52 AM  
Man, that series is badass. The fact that it's based around true events makes it that much better.

The Pacific is sure to be badass as well. (^)
 
2010-01-21 08:17:01 AM  
PacManDreaming
Currahee!

Three miles up, three miles down! Can't believe I'm the first. Just rewatched the entire series again over the holidays, ordinary men in extraordinary circumstances rising to the challenge.Seriously, one of you who live near him ought to print out a hard copy of this thread and leave it on his doorstep. Thank you, Major, and I hope you're enjoying your quiet piece of land and living out your days in peace.

MyNameIsMofuga

I like Winters he's a good man, but when the bullets start flying, I don't know if I want a Quaker to do my fighting for me.

Well if he ain't a Quaker he's probably a Menonite.

 
2010-01-21 08:19:31 AM  
/salute
 
2010-01-21 08:24:01 AM  
Sure, let's celebrate a notorious killer!
 
2010-01-21 08:24:51 AM  

spawn73: Let me get this, someone brought up Band of Brothers and I said I found it historically inaccurate.


Ambrose likes to embellish a bit. If you read the book then watch the movie there are some differences.
 
2010-01-21 08:26:47 AM  
They played "The Drop" over and over in the 'chute shed at airborne school. Imagine Waiting for your first jump, after weeks of training, strapped into a harness, not allowed to move or risk yet another jmpi from the black hats, watching this.

happy birthday sir.
 
2010-01-21 08:27:54 AM  
/salute Major Winters and every WWII vet.

I only wish this nation could have 1/5 of the sense of honor & duty of those men. Our politicians (both sides) and business leaders are whores and we all seem to accept it. Farking pathetic.


Former B Co 1/327 Inf 101st ABN
 
2010-01-21 08:29:04 AM  
Can't wait for The Pacific.
 
2010-01-21 08:34:04 AM  

Hetfield: Sure, let's celebrate a notorious killer!


too obvious
 
2010-01-21 08:37:21 AM  
Airbus-Driver: When "Nazi" means someone who commits some relatively minor offense against personal freedom, what becomes of the real Nazis?

They become Super Nazis.
 
2010-01-21 08:39:28 AM  

The Icelander: Airbus-Driver: When "Nazi" means someone who commits some relatively minor offense against personal freedom, what becomes of the real Nazis?

They become Super Nazis.


www.wafflesquadronomega.com
 
2010-01-21 08:40:27 AM  

bulldg4life: Why he doesn't have a medal of honor is beyond me


He was reccomended for it for the capturing of the guns outside of Carentan but it was downgraded to a distinguished service cross. There was rule in effect that during Overlord only two MOH were allowed to be handed out per division. One of them went to a private the other went to a colonel that led a bayonet charge. But for a guy like him, $20 says he wouldve preferred to get nothing and give the cross to anybody else that was with him on the assault. And thats why he is a classy dude.
 
2010-01-21 08:41:41 AM  
Happy Birthday, sir. I'm glad you, and some of your men, were able to find some semblance of peace the past 60+ years.

/need to watch BoB for the billionth time
//can't wait for The Pacific
 
2010-01-21 08:41:51 AM  
I went to see Ambrose speak during his book tour... 10 years? ago... And after his very powerful and moving talk about how he gathered the letters and photos etc and wrote the books, he stated he didnt do anything, he's just an author, and then asked every WWII vet to stand up and be applauded. While we were acknowledging the vets, Ambrose quietly left the stage. No applause for him.. only for the vets. Not a snit of plaigarism rumor can mar him in my eyes. That was a class act.

/Cant wait for Pacific...gonna have to cave to the cable lords and get HBO.
/Happy Birthday Maj Winters!
 
2010-01-21 08:48:32 AM  

i610.photobucket.com

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TALIA WINTERS

 
2010-01-21 08:49:12 AM  

MyNameIsMofuga: I like Winters he's a good man, but when the bullets start flying, I don't know if I want a Quaker to do my fighting for me.


Oh Sergeant.

I'm not a Quaker.
 
2010-01-21 08:54:55 AM  
Happy Birthday, and thank you.
 
2010-01-21 08:56:27 AM  
Threads like these are awesome. Happy Birthday, Major.

If you're into reading about another badass-to-the-point-of-absurdity, check out the wiki on Jack Churchill (new window), the Englishman who went into WWII carrying a sword, bow and arrow, and bagpipes to play during battle. The man signed up for commando duty "because it sounded dangerous", and had the only confirmed bow and arrow kill of the British army during WWII.
 
2010-01-21 09:00:46 AM  
Happy Birthday, Major!

May you see many, many more.

It's a shame that so few are left. They truly were one of the greatest generations. The obstacles overcome and things achieved are remarkable and one must wonder if today's youth would be capable of such.
 
2010-01-21 09:01:42 AM  
A few years back, I did a run up and down Currahee and I was sore for 2 weeks. Sure, those guys were half my age when they were training there, but they did it daily, whatever the weather, and sometimes twice in a day. That alone would get my respect.
 
2010-01-21 09:02:50 AM  
Appropriate use of the Hero Tag, indeed.

Happy Birthday, Major.
 
2010-01-21 09:03:49 AM  

Sir Vanderhoot: Threads like these are awesome. Happy Birthday, Major.

If you're into reading about another badass-to-the-point-of-absurdity, check out the wiki on Jack Churchill (new window), the Englishman who went into WWII carrying a sword, bow and arrow, and bagpipes to play during battle. The man signed up for commando duty "because it sounded dangerous", and had the only confirmed bow and arrow kill of the British army during WWII.


That's pretty bad-ass.

I actually read about that in a recent issue "Primitive Archer" magazine. Apparently, there was a minor debate about forming a unit of archers for silent interventions, but it was quickly and quietly dropped. A lot of military bases did have archery clubs, though.
 
2010-01-21 09:08:03 AM  
And he's enjoying his birthday in peace on the little piece of land he asked for at the end of D-Day.

Everyone talks about the Brecourt Manor assault, but I think Winters' charge along the dike in Holland was much more impressive. Ordering a bayonet charge across open ground against an enemy of unknown strength and routing two companies of SS with a single platoon and a MG squad? Damn.

Two reads for those that think this guy is the shiat:
"Beyond the Band of Brothers" is Winters' personal memoirs and the biography of Winters, "The Biggest Brother" by Larry Alexander.

I'd also recommend the books by Buck Compton, David Webster and Heffron/Guarnerre.
 
2010-01-21 09:08:20 AM  

nerdlette: Loved, loved, loved BoB. My grandfather was a Marine at Iwo Jima, but he never, EVER, talked about it. Watching BoB gave me some idea of what he must have gone through (even though different theater, yada, yada), and I sobbed like a girl through lots of it. Incredibly powerful stuff, and it just makes you SO PROUD of those boys and what they did.

Happy Birthday Dick Winters and thanks!!

/is a girl, so not that hard to sob like a girl


My grandfather was a Marine on Iwo Jima, too. Same thing - he only talked about it a few times. He was in the 3rd wave storming the beach, took out a sniper, ended up about 100 feet from the flag raising on Mt. Suribachi (both of them...), and did the cave-to-cave cleanup fighting. He usually stopped talking about it at that point - the cave stuff was horrific, he said.

He has two Purple Hearts from Iwo battles.

/And by the way - Happy Birthday and thank you, Maj. Winters.
 
Poz
2010-01-21 09:12:00 AM  
... and after the war in Europe was over, the man... let me say that again... THE man, requested to go fight in the Pacific. Then, when it was all done, claimed not to be a hero, but said he fought along side many heros... Dick Winters is a hero, a role model, and an inspiration. Thank you and Happy Birthday.
 
2010-01-21 09:12:13 AM  
You ought to read his book sometime. You see some new sides of him. Some of them are fascinating, others are kinda dickish. Fantastic read.

Guarnere and Heffron also put out a book recently. Those are hilarious due to them being less 'written' and more dictated. It's basically 500+ pages of Wild Bill rambling on about things like the time he smokebombed his buddy's wedding and kidnapped the bride, dumping her off in the middle of nowhere.

/Hats off to you, Winters
 
2010-01-21 09:17:01 AM  
You know the clip of the plane trying to land on a carrier, only to get tangled up in the catchwire and then crashing upside down?

That's my dad in the cockpit.

He'd rather talk about that crash, the way the natives were on the islands, and the 'life in this man's Navy' stuff than the battles. He'll tell you what it was like waiting to be told if they were going out, or how hard the planes were to fly. And that's it.

He still drives like a fighter pilot, chasing Zeros down the freeway. If he could make the car do a barrel roll, he would.
 
2010-01-21 09:21:30 AM  
...and a thumbs up for the work Mr. Ambrose has done keeping the history alive.
 
2010-01-21 09:23:50 AM  
Meh, I'm sick of WWII veterans. Time for them to all die off and get it over with.
 
2010-01-21 09:24:44 AM  

Khazar-Khum:
He still drives like a fighter pilot, chasing Zeros down the freeway. If he could make the car do a barrel roll, he would.


Well, to be fair, once you are used to chasing down Mitsubishis, it's hard to stop.
 
2010-01-21 09:30:09 AM  
Happy B-Day Hero!
 
2010-01-21 09:30:13 AM  
At the end of the series or one of the episodes (I can't remember which) Maj Winters is talking about his experiences and whatnot. He recalls his grandson asking him if he was a hero in the war and he responds, "No, but I served in the company of heroes."

Thank you, Sir. And yes, I wept like a child after hearing those words.

/BASEBALL
//FOOTBALL
///TRUCKS
////REAL MEN DON'T CRY
//or something like that
 
2010-01-21 09:34:03 AM  

field marshal tania: Meh, I'm sick of WWII veterans. Time for them to all die off and get it over with.


Wow... trolling a WWII Heroes thread? That's low in a whole new kind of way.
 
2010-01-21 09:35:56 AM  

dittybopper: Khazar-Khum:
He still drives like a fighter pilot, chasing Zeros down the freeway. If he could make the car do a barrel roll, he would.

Well, to be fair, once you are used to chasing down Mitsubishis, it's hard to stop.


Win!
 
2010-01-21 09:42:09 AM  

dittybopper: Khazar-Khum:
He still drives like a fighter pilot, chasing Zeros down the freeway. If he could make the car do a barrel roll, he would.

Well, to be fair, once you are used to chasing down Mitsubishis, it's hard to stop.


Damn, time to clean the monitor.
 
2010-01-21 09:48:35 AM  
Happy Birthday, Sir.
 
2010-01-21 09:49:07 AM  
I'd submit a reply, but after reviewing the clip (I've seen the series about four times through), I seem to have something in my eye. Thanks to all the heroes, men and women, who sacrificed then and now; the rest of us have the task of making their service count.
 
2010-01-21 09:57:30 AM  
I own BOB on DVD and I watch it every year around Memorial Day. My dad was a WWII vet, and I worry that if we don't actively understand what it was that they did - what war really used to be.

And then I realize what a pussy I am.
 
2010-01-21 09:58:44 AM  
My grandfather was in the big deuce as well. Only thing he would ever say about it was that he's pretty sure that he walked the entire length of Italy twice over. After he passed, I tried looking into his service record to find out where he was stationed, and what he was up to, but never heard anything back.

Was a big fan of BoB. Definitely on the top of my list of best TV shows ever.

All my best to Major Winters. A heroes hero.
 
2010-01-21 10:00:12 AM  
Met the man himself once. Found him to be a gracious, kind and honestly reflective person willing to talk about his experiences.
 
2010-01-21 10:06:10 AM  
Happy birthday hero.
 
2010-01-21 10:09:15 AM  
Winters:

images4.fotki.com


Thank you for your service to our country, Major, and happy birthday. *SALUTE*
 
2010-01-21 10:13:06 AM  

Airbus-Driver: When "Nazi" means someone who commits some relatively minor offense against personal freedom, what becomes of the real Nazis?


There's actually a really good argument that we should not think of the Nazis as a subset of history or that they were possessed because it reduces the horrific acts that seemingly normal humans did to other humans.

The more they're human the more scary it becomes.
 
2010-01-21 10:13:37 AM  
Happy Birthday, Major Winters! And thank you!

/Hang tough.
 
2010-01-21 10:15:54 AM  
Add me to the list wishing Winters a Happy Birthday.

Also, both my Grandfathers served in WWII. One was a Navy Corpsman (basically a navy medic serving with the marines) in the Pacific. Took part in 3 different island assaults and was wounded fighting his way back from enemy lines after an ambush. When I was a kid I saw him massage his foot and remove a piece of grenade shrapnel. He would still set off metal detectors at airports if he wasn't in a nursing home now.

My other grandfather was a co-pilot in the squadron that dropped the atomic bombs. His plane was the reconnaissance aircraft for Hiroshima and the standby for Nagasaki.
 
2010-01-21 10:17:20 AM  

Deveyn: vilsofa: upcoming HBO series "The Pacific" in March.

F*cking SWEET. There's remnants of WWII Japanese military all over where I live, including a tank parked next to the post office


It's off topic, but I gotta know, what do you do over in Micronesia Deveyn? Looks awesome out there.
 
2010-01-21 10:17:22 AM  
Thank you for everything.
 
2010-01-21 10:20:55 AM  
"Nothing's easy in Easy Company, son!"

I wonder if he was the inspiration for Sgt. Rock?

Happy Birthday, sir.
 
2010-01-21 10:27:40 AM  

Torchsong: "Nothing's easy in Easy Company, son!"

I wonder if he was the inspiration for Sgt. Rock?

Happy Birthday, sir.


That's impossible. He's a Major.
 
2010-01-21 10:32:05 AM  

field marshal tania: Meh, I'm sick of WWII veterans. Time for them to all die off and get it over with.


You should be banned from fark. No, scratch that - the internet. No scratch that - you should be banned from LIVING
 
2010-01-21 10:35:39 AM  

field marshal tania: Meh, I'm sick of WWII veterans. Time for them to all die off and get it over with.


-1/10
That means you owe the forum a troll point just to get back to zero.
 
2010-01-21 10:38:28 AM  
If you like the mini-series, read the books.

Start here. You know the story, but the Major adds depth, personal touches, and clarifies a few minor issues with the series...
rgr-static1.tangentlabs.co.uk

Wild Bill and Babe's effort...nice read, tough-guy humor...
i43.tower.com

Got Buck Compton's book for Christmas, haven't started it yet...
www.freewebs.com

Heroes one and all. Far as I'm concerned, 99% of the troops who fought in WWII deserve the MoH.
 
2010-01-21 10:39:48 AM  
Hand on your Shoulder
After he passed, I tried looking into his service record to find out where he was stationed, and what he was up to, but never heard anything back.

I used this link to request the service records of both my grandfathers, one who is alive and one who is deceased. It took a few months but well worth it. You do need some personal information and most can be done online, but a signature is required to be mailed in too.

http://www.archives.gov/veterans/evetrecs/index.html
 
2010-01-21 10:46:11 AM  

field marshal tania: Meh, I'm sick of WWII veterans. Time for them to all die off and get it over with.


Be a good girl and go play in traffic.

Back on topic. Happy Birthday Major, you've earned it.
 
2010-01-21 10:59:58 AM  

Hobber: Thankyou Major Winters for your exceptional courage, sacrifice and leadership. May you continue to enjoy the fruits of the world you created for myself and my generation.

What you did I don't think I could ever do. And because you did it then, I don't have to do it today.

Thankyou.


+1

Thank you.
 
2010-01-21 11:05:30 AM  
Happy birthday, heroman.
 
2010-01-21 11:05:50 AM  

Tellingthem: themeatcleaver: to this day when i finish watching the final episode of band of brothers i just sigh and realize how empty my life is compared to theirs. the fact that no matter what i ever do, it will pale in comparison to what they did, is simply frightening to me.

No it is not. They had a job to do and they did it. Many people sacrifice their lives for the same reason today. Your life is not empty as long as you do something with it. Work for a charity, adopt a kid, do something to help other people out. Being a soldier doesn't make your life "full". Being the best you can be for the sake of others is.


That's one of the best replies to any post that I've ever seen on FARK.
 
2010-01-21 11:08:05 AM  
Even though I've seen all of the episodes multiple times, I'm DVRing them. (HBO is replaying them in order on a weekly basis to build up buzz for The Pacific.)

Went to Half Price Books to try to find Ambrose's Band of Brothers, they were sold out.
 
2010-01-21 11:09:58 AM  

cwheelie: field marshal tania: Meh, I'm sick of WWII veterans. Time for them to all die off and get it over with.

You should be banned from fark. No, scratch that - the internet. No scratch that - you should be banned from LIVING


I disagree, and I'd bet Major Winters would disagree also. He didn't fight for increased censorship.

/The antidote to abhorrent speech is more speech, not less.
 
2010-01-21 11:19:22 AM  

danny_kay: nom nom nasty: Germany sucks and so do you.

So, when was the last time you visted modern-day Germany?

My generation is very grateful to the Allied forces, I can tell you.
And I definitely will raise a glass on Major Winters tonight, to him and all the others who made sure I can say whatever I want about whoever I want without having to fear for my life or my family's.

During the Third Reich Germany was on the wrong path, there is no denying that.
And the Allied forces did not only destoy an evil regime and stop a war, but they also gave the Germans the opportunity to look into the mirror and say "what the *hell* have we been doing?"

And believe me, we worked hard to get our shiat together after that.
Guess what, German envoys have been welcome mediators in the Middle East conflict, so I'd humbly claim that we made some progress in the getting-along-with-other-countries thing.

So, while I might agree that Germany sucked hairy donkey balls *during the Third Reich*, I suggest that you brush up your knowledge about the more recent history.


aren't there still a lot of neo nazi idiots in germany today?
 
2010-01-21 11:19:38 AM  
Sad our ancestors sacrificed so much only to have the country taken over by corporations anyway. I mean, Hitler was BAD BAD BAD, but corporations are getting there.
 
2010-01-21 11:28:42 AM  
In the market garden episode when the Netherlands was liberated, the towns people stripped and shaved the heads of women whom they suspected of collaboration. Whatever happened to these women were they kicked out of their towns, how did they rebuild their lives? This is one of those questions I have always wondered about. It's not like they didn't stick out and I imaganine their community wanted nothing to do with them.
 
2010-01-21 11:44:35 AM  

SuperNinjaToad: aren't there still a lot of neo nazi idiots in germany today?


I think that has to do more with the "fark the establishment, man!" scene.
 
2010-01-21 11:46:31 AM  

dittybopper: cwheelie: field marshal tania: Meh, I'm sick of WWII veterans. Time for them to all die off and get it over with.

You should be banned from fark. No, scratch that - the internet. No scratch that - you should be banned from LIVING

I disagree, and I'd bet Major Winters would disagree also. He didn't fight for increased censorship.

/The antidote to abhorrent speech is more speech, not less.


While I agree with the sentiment, I would not shed a tear if the"person" in question shoved a live grenade up an orafice of and about her person and pulled the pin....
 
2010-01-21 11:48:36 AM  
God I loved Band of Brothers.
 
2010-01-21 11:48:52 AM  

Thudfark: dittybopper: cwheelie: field marshal tania: Meh, I'm sick of WWII veterans. Time for them to all die off and get it over with.

You should be banned from fark. No, scratch that - the internet. No scratch that - you should be banned from LIVING

I disagree, and I'd bet Major Winters would disagree also. He didn't fight for increased censorship.

/The antidote to abhorrent speech is more speech, not less.

While I agree with the sentiment, I would not shed a tear if the"person" in question shoved a live grenade up an orafice of and about her person and pulled the pin....


Well, yeah, but that's self-inflicted, which is fine.
 
2010-01-21 11:50:35 AM  

monsieurstabby: God I loved Band of Brothers.


My personal favorite was "Long Train Runnin'".
 
2010-01-21 11:56:50 AM  

clusterfrak: In the market garden episode when the Netherlands was liberated, the towns people stripped and shaved the heads of women whom they suspected of collaboration. Whatever happened to these women were they kicked out of their towns, how did they rebuild their lives? This is one of those questions I have always wondered about. It's not like they didn't stick out and I imaganine their community wanted nothing to do with them.


Got "D-Day" by Anthony Beevor for Christmas and he spends some time on this. It happened all over Europe; as towns were liberated the resistance (and citizenry in general) would round up those women who partook in 'collaboration horizontale' and rip their clothes, chop off their hair and worse. Beevor used an estimate that there were 40,000 such instances in France alone during the summer of '44 and many thousands more in Belgium, Holland, Lux, ect. Most were initally cared for by Allied armies with food, clothing, and medical attention, though it would take years for their hair to grow back so they were likely stuck with the stigma for some time... Most refernces I've read by Allied soldiers showed them to be shocked by the savage treatment of the women by their countrymen.

/Beevor's book is a great look at the Normandy campaign from D-Day to the liberation of Paris.
//Link (new window)
 
2010-01-21 11:57:02 AM  
Here's a big *Budda-Budda-Budda* for Sgt. Rock!
 
2010-01-21 12:16:44 PM  

Kygz: clusterfrak: In the market garden episode when the Netherlands was liberated, the towns people stripped and shaved the heads of women whom they suspected of collaboration. Whatever happened to these women were they kicked out of their towns, how did they rebuild their lives? This is one of those questions I have always wondered about. It's not like they didn't stick out and I imaganine their community wanted nothing to do with them.

Got "D-Day" by Anthony Beevor for Christmas and he spends some time on this. It happened all over Europe; as towns were liberated the resistance (and citizenry in general) would round up those women who partook in 'collaboration horizontale' and rip their clothes, chop off their hair and worse. Beevor used an estimate that there were 40,000 such instances in France alone during the summer of '44 and many thousands more in Belgium, Holland, Lux, ect. Most were initally cared for by Allied armies with food, clothing, and medical attention, though it would take years for their hair to grow back so they were likely stuck with the stigma for some time... Most refernces I've read by Allied soldiers showed them to be shocked by the savage treatment of the women by their countrymen.

/Beevor's book is a great look at the Normandy campaign from D-Day to the liberation of Paris.
//Link (new window)


Thanks that looks like a good read. I imagane even after their hair started to grow back strange women with short hair were suspect no matter where they went.
 
2010-01-21 12:25:45 PM  

dittybopper: cwheelie: field marshal tania: Meh, I'm sick of WWII veterans. Time for them to all die off and get it over with.

You should be banned from fark. No, scratch that - the internet. No scratch that - you should be banned from LIVING

I disagree, and I'd bet Major Winters would disagree also. He didn't fight for increased censorship.

/The antidote to abhorrent speech is more speech, not less.


Point taken. There's always friendly fire
 
2010-01-21 12:27:11 PM  

clusterfrak: Kygz: clusterfrak: In the market garden episode when the Netherlands was liberated, the towns people stripped and shaved the heads of women whom they suspected of collaboration. Whatever happened to these women were they kicked out of their towns, how did they rebuild their lives? This is one of those questions I have always wondered about. It's not like they didn't stick out and I imaganine their community wanted nothing to do with them.

Got "D-Day" by Anthony Beevor for Christmas and he spends some time on this. It happened all over Europe; as towns were liberated the resistance (and citizenry in general) would round up those women who partook in 'collaboration horizontale' and rip their clothes, chop off their hair and worse. Beevor used an estimate that there were 40,000 such instances in France alone during the summer of '44 and many thousands more in Belgium, Holland, Lux, ect. Most were initally cared for by Allied armies with food, clothing, and medical attention, though it would take years for their hair to grow back so they were likely stuck with the stigma for some time... Most refernces I've read by Allied soldiers showed them to be shocked by the savage treatment of the women by their countrymen.

/Beevor's book is a great look at the Normandy campaign from D-Day to the liberation of Paris.
//Link (new window)

Thanks that looks like a good read. I imagane even after their hair started to grow back strange women with short hair were suspect no matter where they went.


I understand Pat Benetar had it pretty rough in those post-war years.
 
Byn
2010-01-21 12:34:20 PM  
Happy birthday, Sir.
 
2010-01-21 12:34:30 PM  

clusterfrak: In the market garden episode when the Netherlands was liberated, the towns people stripped and shaved the heads of women whom they suspected of collaboration. Whatever happened to these women were they kicked out of their towns, how did they rebuild their lives? This is one of those questions I have always wondered about. It's not like they didn't stick out and I imaganine their community wanted nothing to do with them.


Over here (Norway) the result of being a known "tyskertøs" was to be detained to one of the regional camps immediately after the war. Women were detained until the winter of '45 with no legal proceedings at all.
Anyone proven guilty in the later cases against traitors of the war, lost the right to hold any public funded job.

Women who was registered as married to a German soldier lost their citizenship, and was deported to Germany, regardless of whether any information indicated that their husband was alive or not.
Revocation of citizenship and deportation kept occurring until 1953.
 
2010-01-21 12:37:23 PM  
Happy Birthday Sir!
Please enjoy another day when the guns are silent.
 
2010-01-21 12:41:20 PM  
Thank you sir. Happy Birthday.
 
2010-01-21 12:43:02 PM  

Poison Appleseeds: Winters: [quoting from a letter Mike Ranney wrote to him]: I cherish the memory of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said: 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, "No. But I served in a company of heroes."


That quote gives me chills every time I hear it.

God bless you, Major Winters. May the rest of your life have the peace that you and your men earned for the rest of us.

/can't wait to see "The Pacific"
 
2010-01-21 12:49:26 PM  
Curahee, Maj. Winters! You and your men did a hard job and are an example of courage, honor, and shear testicular fortitude.
 
2010-01-21 12:50:23 PM  

field marshal tania: Meh, I'm sick of WWII veterans. Time for them to all die off and get it over with.


They'll be gone soon enough, just like your dignity and self-worth.

Some of us will remember them fondly (the veterans, not your dignity and self-worth).
 
2010-01-21 12:57:49 PM  

ko_kyi: field marshal tania: Meh, I'm sick of WWII veterans. Time for them to all die off and get it over with.

They'll be gone soon enough, just like your dignity and self-worth.

Some of us will remember them fondly (the veterans, not your dignity and self-worth).


Well those never existed anyways. Remembering them is remembering an abstract idea.
 
2010-01-21 12:58:45 PM  

Cornwell: clusterfrak: In the market garden episode when the Netherlands was liberated, the towns people stripped and shaved the heads of women whom they suspected of collaboration. Whatever happened to these women were they kicked out of their towns, how did they rebuild their lives? This is one of those questions I have always wondered about. It's not like they didn't stick out and I imaganine their community wanted nothing to do with them.

Over here (Norway) the result of being a known "tyskertøs" was to be detained to one of the regional camps immediately after the war. Women were detained until the winter of '45 with no legal proceedings at all.
Anyone proven guilty in the later cases against traitors of the war, lost the right to hold any public funded job.

Women who was registered as married to a German soldier lost their citizenship, and was deported to Germany, regardless of whether any information indicated that their husband was alive or not.
Revocation of citizenship and deportation kept occurring until 1953.


thats what you get for backing a bunch of sick bastards like the Nazi's--wish more of our brave fightin boys did what Brad Pitt does in Inglorious Bastards!!
 
2010-01-21 01:00:24 PM  
Oh, and for you BoB nerds like me out there; I also got 'Parachute Infantry' by David Webster for Christmas. It was compiled by Stephen Ambrose from articles Webster wrote for different publications, his notes and letters home. Really a fascinating read and i recommend it to anyone interested in this stuff. It's definitally a more cynical look at the war than the usual books you can find out there. Great stories about Easy Co. and some insight into things we already know about and other stories we haven't heard yet.

/Great insight into the last partol over the Moder River at Haguenau
//and the differences between the enlisted life and that of the officers
 
2010-01-21 01:00:35 PM  

Wise_Guy:
I understand Pat Benetar had it pretty rough in those post-war years.


Not as bad as Annie Lennox
 
2010-01-21 01:00:38 PM  

crab66: BesiktasBoy83: Ok so my opinion of the best armies in ww2:
1. German
2. England
3. Russia
4. America
5. Australia/Poland
6. Finland
7. Japan
109. Italia ;)

#1 goes to the guys who lost.


Nice list.


In war the best army (or military) is not guaranteed a victory, re: Vietnam.

I think the list goes
1. Germany
2. Russia
3. England combined with Indian units
4. Japan
5. North America (Canada & U.S.)

Both Germany and Japan's militaries astound me. It always messes with my mind how quickly Japan went from a medieval, feudal nation to a modernly industrialized nation over the 19th and 20th centuries.
 
2010-01-21 01:11:16 PM  
Salute!
Thank you for your service, Major Winters. You're an inspiration to us all.

My Grandad was in the Seebees on Iwo Jima and Okinawa, and then in Korea in 1950. I only got him to talk about the war once-he lost a lot of good buddies on that rock, apparently. He also once almost single-handedly restarted the Korean war in '55. That was a great story.
 
2010-01-21 01:11:50 PM  
Happy Birthday Sir.
 
2010-01-21 01:14:25 PM  

BesiktasBoy83: Ok so my opinion of the best armies in ww2:
1. German
2. England
3. Russia
4. America
5. Australia/Poland
6. Finland
7. Japan
109. Italia ;)


You forgot the only country that had units that made their Day 1 D-Day objective: Canada.
 
2010-01-21 01:21:35 PM  

Jamieboy: Never saw, nor have I ever heard of "Band of Brothers". I have no idea why something like that could have escaped my notice. Just spent a good 3/4 of an hour reading up on Richard Winters and company. Going to get the DVDs of the series by hook or by crook today, along with the book.

I really am shocked that I never heard of this before. I'm sure my Dad (a WWII vet and historian of that era) must have had discussed 'easy company' at one time or another - I just don' remember. God knows he lectured us on everything else having to due with the war, its heroes and criminals.


I'm envious of you.. .you get to watch it for the first time. I've seen the series ~5 times over. Prepare to have your mind blown.
 
2010-01-21 01:23:23 PM  

clusterfrak: In the market garden episode when the Netherlands was liberated, the towns people stripped and shaved the heads of women whom they suspected of collaboration. Whatever happened to these women were they kicked out of their towns, how did they rebuild their lives? This is one of those questions I have always wondered about. It's not like they didn't stick out and I imaganine their community wanted nothing to do with them.


How'd they get by?
1. Buy a wig or wear a head scarf.
2. Peddle your ass to foreign troops who don't know you and as long as you have three holes, could care less about your hair.
3. Once your hair grows out and you have enough cash, go somewhere else and change your name.

It's not like a lot of the women involved didn't have enough practice in carrying out step 2 over the years.
 
2010-01-21 01:35:24 PM  

cynicalbastard: clusterfrak: In the market garden episode when the Netherlands was liberated, the towns people stripped and shaved the heads of women whom they suspected of collaboration. Whatever happened to these women were they kicked out of their towns, how did they rebuild their lives? This is one of those questions I have always wondered about. It's not like they didn't stick out and I imaganine their community wanted nothing to do with them.

How'd they get by?
1. Buy a wig or wear a head scarf.
2. Peddle your ass to foreign troops who don't know you and as long as you have three holes, could care less about your hair.
3. Once your hair grows out and you have enough cash, go somewhere else and change your name.

It's not like a lot of the women involved didn't have enough practice in carrying out step 2 over the years.


I'm sure that their situations were generally more complicated than that.
 
2010-01-21 01:44:57 PM  

Lagaidh: crab66: BesiktasBoy83: Ok so my opinion of the best armies in ww2:
1. German
2. England
3. Russia
4. America
5. Australia/Poland
6. Finland
7. Japan
109. Italia ;)

#1 goes to the guys who lost.


Nice list.

In war the best army (or military) is not guaranteed a victory, re: Vietnam.

I think the list goes
1. Germany
2. Russia
3. England combined with Indian units
4. Japan
5. North America (Canada & U.S.)

Both Germany and Japan's militaries astound me. It always messes with my mind how quickly Japan went from a medieval, feudal nation to a modernly industrialized nation over the 19th and 20th centuries.


Japan shouldn't get such high marks. Their signals intelligence was worse than any of the major combatants. They were fighting a modern war with modern equipment, but a feudal mindset. SIGINT appeared to be an afterthought, something they did because everyone else did it, but they didn't put any real resources into it, which is the *REAL* reason that the Navajo codetalkers were so successful.

Had Japan really tried, they could have broken it relatively easily. They had a native speaker who was captured, Joe Kieyoomia, from whom they could have built up a dictionary, and once you have that the actual code used would have fallen pretty quickly ("Tortoise" for tank? "Iron fish" for submarine? Puhleeze).

On top of that, they didn't even know how to break the low-level strip ciphers in use by the US Navy, even though they captured examples and the general method for solving them (along with the cryptographically identical wheel ciphers) had been first published in 1893.
 
2010-01-21 01:52:23 PM  

Lagaidh: In war the best army (or military) is not guaranteed a victory


Don't forget that manufacturing and logistical capability are huge parts of this algorithm as well. The Sherman was an inferior tank to all the German models, but we overwhelmed them with numbers. The Russians did this to them as well. And the Germans severely overstretched their supply lines (especially on the Eastern front).

This same principle is alive and well today. The US is able to project power exponentially better than any other country, thus we are the global power.

Remember the old quote: amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics.
 
2010-01-21 02:18:43 PM  
Best Dick Winters line:[Going into Battle of the Bulge]

Soldier: You are going to be surrounded.

Winters: We are Airborne. We are suposed to be surrounded.
 
2010-01-21 02:19:19 PM  
dirtybopper

I'm going to call that a factalanche and stand corrected.

Tartan69

Oh I agree completely. I've always felt that is why America had its level of success in WWII. It was sheer production.

I was watching one special on the WWII channel (History/History Intl) and I can't remember which high ranking Nazi commented at the US's ability to produce regarding the Sherman tank; he lamented that the war was lost (years before it did for Germany).

Maybe it was Hess. I can't recall.
 
2010-01-21 02:27:03 PM  

PacManDreaming: Staffist: Is this on cable? Because I don't get it and I don't speak european.

And I've never seen 'The Wire' either.

Seriously.

Sincerely,

Demi-Troll

You've never seen Band of Brothers before? You don't know what you're missing.

Here's a clip of when Major Winters led the attack on Brecourt Manor to take out the German artillery that was firing down on Utah Beach. (^)(NSFW language)

And here's a Wiki of the details of the "Brecourt Manor Assault". (^)


That's really what should have been linked. Not this part that I can't remember that doesn't seem to have much to with Dick.
 
2010-01-21 02:34:33 PM  

shinji3i: bulldg4life: Why he doesn't have a medal of honor is beyond me

He was reccomended for it for the capturing of the guns outside of Carentan but it was downgraded to a distinguished service cross. There was rule in effect that during Overlord only two MOH were allowed to be handed out per division. One of them went to a private the other went to a colonel that led a bayonet charge. But for a guy like him, $20 says he wouldve preferred to get nothing and give the cross to anybody else that was with him on the assault. And thats why he is a classy dude.


If I recall correctly from Ambrose's book, part of the reason he didn't get it was that he downplayed his awesomeness when recounting the assault on the guns for the army historian. He basically stuck to "first we went here, then we shot those guys, then we went there and shot those guys, then over there, more of the same, and then we left." As a result, the report really didn't convey what he and his men had really done, and thus the medal went elsewhere.

/this guy is a total badass
 
2010-01-21 02:41:06 PM  
Skip Muck on the right, Winters in back facing camera.

www.heroesforever.nl
 
2010-01-21 02:51:02 PM  
Come on, Congress. Do the right thing before it's too late.

www.rtcol.com

Happy Birthday, Sir!

CURRAHEE!
 
2010-01-21 02:55:02 PM  

tulax: shinji3i: bulldg4life: Why he doesn't have a medal of honor is beyond me

He was reccomended for it for the capturing of the guns outside of Carentan but it was downgraded to a distinguished service cross. There was rule in effect that during Overlord only two MOH were allowed to be handed out per division. One of them went to a private the other went to a colonel that led a bayonet charge. But for a guy like him, $20 says he wouldve preferred to get nothing and give the cross to anybody else that was with him on the assault. And thats why he is a classy dude.

If I recall correctly from Ambrose's book, part of the reason he didn't get it was that he downplayed his awesomeness when recounting the assault on the guns for the army historian. He basically stuck to "first we went here, then we shot those guys, then we went there and shot those guys, then over there, more of the same, and then we left." As a result, the report really didn't convey what he and his men had really done, and thus the medal went elsewhere.

/this guy is a total badass


I think the truth is in both of these posts. There was a limit to one MoH per Division for the Normady campaign. (stupid from my view as some divisions might have had multiple nominations worthy, while other divisions might have had none) Winters also had a habit of writing after action reports in a manner that detailed everyone's contributions. (this is brought up in the series when nixon tells Witers to be general and use 'we' a lot as he is typing is report for the fight along the dike in the episode Crossroads) Once LTC Cole (new window)won his MoH for his bayonet charge through the hedgerow, there wasn't one availible for the Brecourt assault so it was downgraded to a DSC. At least that's the way I've read and understood it over the years.

Winters' reports did get everyone involved in the initial assault at Brecourt decorated, though:

Distinguished Service Cross:
Richard Winters

Silver Star:
Lynn Compton, William Guarnere, Gerald Lorraine

Bronze Star:
Carwood Lipton, Robert Wynn, Cleveland Petty, Walter Hendrix, Donald Malarkey, Myron Ranney, Joseph Liebgott, John Plesha, Joe Toye
 
2010-01-21 02:59:12 PM  
*chest bump*
 
2010-01-21 03:02:03 PM  
Don't miss The Pacific, when it premieres in March!
 
2010-01-21 03:11:58 PM  

ProdigalSigh: Oakenhelm: Don't fark with Finland

I was going to point this out too, a lot of troops from a given country were brave and did heroic things, while the Fins, as a race, were/are basically killer robots from the frozen wastes.


You don't fark with Norsemen.
 
2010-01-21 03:14:45 PM  

Occam's Chainsaw: bulldg4life: Why he doesn't have a medal of honor is beyond me

Because quite frankly, you'd have to issue a Medal to just about every man in the 82nd and 101st Airborne. The sh*t they did over the course of WW2... f*cking unreal.

/Still can't re-watch "Why We Fight".
//Wept like a baby the first time around.


My deepest best wishes to Major Winters. I had relatives liberated by Easy Company at Kaufering. As a result most of the men in my family have gone on to serve in the military. My dad and some of my uncles have left prayers for the men of Easy at the Western Wall (Wailing Wall).
 
2010-01-21 03:26:26 PM  

SpeckledJim: Shifty


Shifty was my favorite.

Curse of the Goth Kids: Finns


Especially not the White Death. Using a standard iron-sighted, bolt action rifle in the Winter War, he has the highest recorded number of confirmed kills in any major war.
 
2010-01-21 03:45:27 PM  
Strange, I am re-reading Biggest Brother for the third time, and I see this link. If you haven't read that book yet, I would highly recommend it to you all. Winters is the true embodiment of what makes a great leader. And about the medal of honor.... Sink actually recommended Winters to receive it, for his actions on taking out the AA guns on their first day there; however, Winters was rejected because they were only allowed to give out one medal of honor for the 101st. It was given to Cole, and Winters was downgraded to the distinguished service cross.
 
2010-01-21 03:50:39 PM  

Lagaidh: dirtybopper

I'm going to call that a factalanche and stand corrected.


Don't feel bad: Most people don't have a clue when it comes to SIGINT. I used to be in that business, and the history of it is interesting to me, so I have this swirling mass of knowledge in my brain. It's like the movie Videodrome, only with Morse code instead of snuff tv.
 
2010-01-21 03:58:53 PM  
God bless Dick Winters, and all the men of Easy Co. And..all others who served then, and now, and anytime else. This was a great and terrible time in history, and everyone, including children, should watch "Band of Brothers" and other movies based on Historical events. In a small way, for perhaps just a moment, by watching a movie such as this, you give a small tribute to the men and women who paid such a high cost to see that you live as you do today. Is it too much to ask?
 
2010-01-21 04:07:51 PM  
Dick Winters and Lewis Nixon
flightlinefabrications.com
 
2010-01-21 04:18:10 PM  

Kygz: SpeckledJim: Shifty

Shifty was my favorite.


From what I understand, he was the only one in the company to make it through the whole thing with no combat injuries - kind of incredible in a company with 150% casualties. He actually felt guilty about it.
 
2010-01-21 04:35:02 PM  

SpeckledJim: Kygz: SpeckledJim: Shifty

Shifty was my favorite.

From what I understand, he was the only one in the company to make it through the whole thing with no combat injuries - kind of incredible in a company with 150% casualties. He actually felt guilty about it.


Yeah, spend 10 months fighting his way across europe with hardly a scratch then gets into a truck accident and spends months in the hospital before he gets to return home.

Oh, and the fact that they rigged the lottery for him to be the one sent back home without enough points speaks volumes for the type of guy Shifty must have been...
 
2010-01-21 04:48:21 PM  

dittybopper:

Japan shouldn't get such high marks. Their signals intelligence was worse than any of the major combatants. They were fighting a modern war with modern equipment, but a feudal mindset.


Japan BEGAN the war with modern weapons but the weapons they were using to defend Okinowa in '44 were the same designs that they invaded Manchuria with in '33. Noone else had that kind of tech stagnation
 
2010-01-21 04:54:56 PM  
Today is also my mom's birthday. She is a badass as well. Bless 'em both.
 
2010-01-21 05:00:06 PM  
I love my country. I love the men and women who fight. I had a brief chance to serve with them and it's a feeling you will never forget. Thank you for your service Major Winters, you and your fellow troopers will NEVER be forgotten by the patriots who follow in your powerful wake.

/U.S.A.!!!!!
 
2010-01-21 05:10:30 PM  

dittybopper: Japan shouldn't get such high marks. Their signals intelligence was worse than any of the major combatants.


Well, that's also due to the genius of Lawrence P. Waterhouse. Oh, and Bobby Shaftoe helped too.

(Yes. I'm kidding. Have I told you about the giant lizard?)

Count me as geeked for The Pacific as well. I think I read that Chesty Puller is going to be a character? Hella cool.
 
2010-01-21 05:35:59 PM  

dudemanbro: Demon of the Fall: That's awesome.

The funny part is that the old fart is still alive. If anyone should be dead it's him but he just keeps on...
/hanging out at the Eagles lodge, mostly


That's because Death is too much of a pussy to fark with him.
 
2010-01-21 06:33:43 PM  
While this guy inspires me to no end and is a true American hero, I don't think he deserves a medal of honor. He's received (and deserves) tons of decorations for what he's done. I'm sure given the opportunity and right circumstances he would have definitely earned one, but according to everything I've heard about him he hasn't yet.
 
2010-01-21 06:42:01 PM  
/Salute
 
2010-01-21 07:00:53 PM  

One Bad Apple: dittybopper:

Japan shouldn't get such high marks. Their signals intelligence was worse than any of the major combatants. They were fighting a modern war with modern equipment, but a feudal mindset.

Japan BEGAN the war with modern weapons but the weapons they were using to defend Okinowa in '44 were the same designs that they invaded Manchuria with in '33. Noone else had that kind of tech stagnation


Not quite true. At the start of the Pacific War in 1941, they had arguably the best carrier fleet, best surface ships and carrier aircraft in existence, coupled with some pretty awesome weapons- the Long Lance torpedo comes to mind here. They continued to upgrade their aircraft, some models being equal to just about any Allied aircraft right till the end of the war.
But with their supply lines vulnerable and overextended, coupled with a masterstroke of strategy by the American submarine fleet, their ability to produce new equipment or even service the equipment they had was severely compromised. And once heavy bombing of the Japanese mainland started, the situation went from bad to worse.
This, coupled with the lowered training standards for soldiers, sailors and airmen due to losses basically ensured Japanese defeat in the long run. Kamikaze tactics were not developed because they had no more bomber aircraft- it was simply easier for a semi-trained pilot to aim his whole aircraft at a target than try to bomb it. And because of losses of Japanese airmen and shortages of fuel, that was pretty much all they could turn out- half-trained pilots. You had a few very good pilots left, and many very bad ones.
 
2010-01-21 07:08:46 PM  

rico567: Occam's Chainsaw: Airbus-Driver: Everyone who makes a statement like "Soandso is Hitler!" or "Soandso is a nazi!" should be required to watch "Why We Fight". Not because Soandso is not a deplorable example of a human being or a facist, but because it makes people forget what Hitler and the Nazis really did. When "Nazi" means someone who commits some relatively minor offense against personal freedom, what becomes of the real Nazis?

The inverse of that sentiment: when someone is behaving in a manner reminiscent of (or identical to) the Nazis, calling them out on it is not a Godwin. The demonization of the Nazis as the ultimate bad guys of all time ever is almost as bad as apologism. The lesson that we should take away from that time period is that perfectly normal people can be lead into horrific things under the right circumstances.

Part of the reason I suppose I've always been fascinated by WWII is the speculation about "-how in the world could a miserable little paperhanger do that?" (although I suppose being born in '44 and growing up in the aftermath of the war and the long shadow of my father the Marine helped). Your theory is a popular one. Unfortunately, it boils down to either proposing some sort of Hitlerian hypnotism or a lack of free will, and I can's subscribe to either.

/Evil exists.


I recommend you watch Downfall.
Hitler may have been a monster, but he was far from being either a fool or a coward. He was incredibly could at assessing just how to appeal to people, and one German officer said "He had the ability, while talking to you, of making you feel as though you were the most important person in the world- after him, of course."
 
2010-01-21 07:48:56 PM  
I can't possibly add to much to this thread that's not already been said, but I'll just add my two cents and wish Major Winters a Happy Birthday and thank him for his bravery and service to his country.

I'm a big fan of BoB, and too am waiting the series on the Pacific. My father was a WWII vet (died in 1977) and he didn't talk too much about his experiences fighting the Japs.

But once I asked him while we were studying WWII I asked him about D-Day in Europe and he said he was part of the island hopping invasions in the Pacific and they did MANY D-day type invasions storming beaches and stuff and he luckily came out of it unscathed.

His closest call he said was one night he spent in a fox hole and when when he awoke the guy next to him was shot dead, a sniper had gotten him during the night.

I also had an uncle serve under Patton and took part in the Bulge. He said it was the most miserable time of his life and he never thought he'd make it out alive.
 
2010-01-21 08:52:44 PM  

Some Phule: : Comparing Band of Brothers with actual history is kinda dumb, look at it as fiction.


Hmm, so the personal accounts of soldiers who witnessed these historical events as they unfolded are not history?
 
2010-01-21 09:05:22 PM  

Oakenhelm: BesiktasBoy83: Ok so my opinion of the best armies in ww2:
1. German
2. England
3. Russia
4. America
5. Australia/Poland
6. Finland
7. Japan
109. Italia ;)

Finland should be way higher on that list. Stats for the Winter War between Finland and the USSR

Finnish dead and wounded: ~70,000
Soviet dead and wounded: ~ 400,000


Dang, yo

Source: Link


But Finland ultimately lost to the Soviets.
 
2010-01-21 09:23:27 PM  

Shrinkwrap: Looks awesome out there.


I'm in IT.

And yes, it's awesome out here.
 
2010-01-21 10:22:45 PM  
from one (very humble) Major to another (very badass) Major: Happy Birthday, Sir!
 
2010-01-22 12:19:22 AM  
Happy Birthday, Maj. Winters. You are an amazing human being. Your contributions during and after WWII are immeasurable. Thank you is not enough.

Not only do I love BoB...but I have often thought to myself....I'd happily marry any one of the men in Easy. (But I sure as hell favored Maj.Winters ;)) They were MEN...good, honorable, humble, hard-working men. They weren't without flaws (which BoB did show, somewhat)...but still...they don't seem to make them like that anymore.
 
2010-01-22 01:11:40 AM  
On the other hand, all the vets weren't such admirable characters in person. I can recall as a young pup down at the Reading Airshow listening to a decorated vet of both the North African campaign and Normandy, who'd had a couple belts too many at the local VFW tell me straight out "The reason we kicked ass is we didn't get stuck in the same units as a bunch of coloreds, that's why they kept us runnin' around in circles in Vietnam," and bear in mind the guy was talking to a teenaged kid who thought WW2 vets could do no wrong, both parents falling into that category.
 
2010-01-22 05:13:31 AM  

Mock26: Oakenhelm: BesiktasBoy83: Ok so my opinion of the best armies in ww2:
1. German
2. England
3. Russia
4. America
5. Australia/Poland
6. Finland
7. Japan
109. Italia ;)

Finland should be way higher on that list. Stats for the Winter War between Finland and the USSR

Finnish dead and wounded: ~70,000
Soviet dead and wounded: ~ 400,000


Dang, yo

Source: Link

But Finland ultimately lost to the Soviets.


Yep...that's right. We retained our independance and more or less all of our territory. Sound's like a loss to me....it's not always about who "wins", it's who wins what. You could say that the USSR ultimately lost as well.
 
2010-01-22 08:52:55 AM  
They weren't without flaws (which BoB did show, somewhat)...but still...they don't seem to make them like that anymore.

Sometimes I think the way I'm raising my kids is too old fashioned and strict. But if the end result causes them to exhibit any of those qualities, then I think it's worth it.

/I taught my boys to hold a door for a lady
//which seems to confuse the hell out of the ladies
 
2010-01-22 09:40:54 AM  

cynicalbastard: One Bad Apple: dittybopper:

Japan shouldn't get such high marks. Their signals intelligence was worse than any of the major combatants. They were fighting a modern war with modern equipment, but a feudal mindset.

Japan BEGAN the war with modern weapons but the weapons they were using to defend Okinowa in '44 were the same designs that they invaded Manchuria with in '33. Noone else had that kind of tech stagnation

Not quite true. At the start of the Pacific War in 1941, they had arguably the best carrier fleet, best surface ships and carrier aircraft in existence, coupled with some pretty awesome weapons- the Long Lance torpedo comes to mind here. They continued to upgrade their aircraft, some models being equal to just about any Allied aircraft right till the end of the war.
But with their supply lines vulnerable and overextended, coupled with a masterstroke of strategy by the American submarine fleet, their ability to produce new equipment or even service the equipment they had was severely compromised. And once heavy bombing of the Japanese mainland started, the situation went from bad to worse.
This, coupled with the lowered training standards for soldiers, sailors and airmen due to losses basically ensured Japanese defeat in the long run. Kamikaze tactics were not developed because they had no more bomber aircraft- it was simply easier for a semi-trained pilot to aim his whole aircraft at a target than try to bomb it. And because of losses of Japanese airmen and shortages of fuel, that was pretty much all they could turn out- half-trained pilots. You had a few very good pilots left, and many very bad ones.


That master stroke of the US Submarine fleet was largely due to the fact that we could "read their mail", ie., we had effectively broken all of their codes and ciphers, and could place our relatively limited number of submarines where they were most effective.

Had they been able to break into our (mainly) ciphers, or if they had been able to secure their communications against us, we would have been much less effective. This happened to the Germans: Once the Allies broke the Naval Enigma, they recognized that the Germans were reading the codes used to route merchant shipping, and they then changed them (after a lag to make up a new code, of course). This caused a significant drop in the number of ships in convoy from being sunk, because the Germans didn't know where they were from reading the radio traffic, and thus had to search for them.

Admiral Doenitz didn't seem to notice this, or if he did he didn't see it as a big setback at first because Germany had just declared war on the US and his u-boats were having an easy time sinking ships off the US coast. The effect of that was that the metric he reported to his superiors, number of ships sunk, didn't decrease (at first), and in fact actually rose somewhat.

If the Japanese had been able to do the same to the Allies, shutting us out of their communications, we would have had a *MUCH* harder time in the Pacific. As it was, knowing where they were strong and where they were weak allowed us to bypass their strong garrisons and let them "wither on the vine", while advancing where they were weak. It also allowed us to know when and where their merchant shipping was routed, so we could effectively target them, hastening the downfall of both Japan itself, and it's far-flung and isolated garrisons.
 
2010-01-22 12:13:03 PM  
dittybopper:
That master stroke of the US Submarine fleet was largely due to the fact that we could "read their mail", ie., we had effectively broken all of their codes and ciphers, and could place our relatively limited number of submarines where they were most effective.

Hey, just because it seems in retrospect to have been an obvious step to take doesn't mean it wasn't, by WW2 standards, brilliant. There was one historian who said that between 1941 and 1943, WW2 appeared to be a war that both sides were doing their best to lose.
 
2010-01-22 02:36:01 PM  

cynicalbastard: dittybopper:
That master stroke of the US Submarine fleet was largely due to the fact that we could "read their mail", ie., we had effectively broken all of their codes and ciphers, and could place our relatively limited number of submarines where they were most effective.

Hey, just because it seems in retrospect to have been an obvious step to take doesn't mean it wasn't, by WW2 standards, brilliant. There was one historian who said that between 1941 and 1943, WW2 appeared to be a war that both sides were doing their best to lose.


It was brilliant, but it wasn't unprecedented: Signals Intelligence had been widely exploited in WWI, notably by the Royal Navy against the German Navy, and perhaps most dramatically by the Germans against much larger Russian forces at the Battle of Tannenberg.

It was actually the product of British signals intelligence that brought the US into WWI: Despite what you read about the Lusitania sinking and various other depredations by Germany's u-boats, the real cause of the US entering the war was the Zimmermann telegram.

By the time WWII rolled around, the US, the UK, and Germany had top-notch SIGINT organizations (though Germany's was too fractured). Italy made some notable victories in the aether also, especially by spoofing the Yugoslavs into retreating.

Japan, however, seemed to basically flounder. I don't know if it's because their experience all through the 1930's against China convinced them it wasn't necessary or important, or if their general attitude bias towards taking the offensive made them biased against SIGINT which is sometimes erroneously viewed as a largely defensive measure.

Whatever the reason, they largely lost the war in the Pacific based upon their lack of SIGINT ability compared to the US. Think of the implications for the conduct of the war had Japan invaded Port Moresby, then Midway Island. That would have largely opened up Pearl Harbor for invasion, or at least further attacks to prevent it's use. We'd have had to largely operate from the West Coast, a daunting task even if you have numerical superiority.
 
2010-01-22 07:08:32 PM  
Winters was a great leader. I didn't view Band of Brothers as a "heroes" story - I viewed it as a great example of how to lead people.

It would make a great leadership seminar to dissect his best qualities and share them. He tried doing it in his own book, to some effect. Malarkey has a leadership seminar that he runs (ran), and alot of it revolves around Easy Company.

Frankly, this man is a a natural leader, a pure visionary in human relations. His men loved being with him and were willing to put THEIR lives on the line because he put HIS life on the line.
If you want people to do something, you have to inspire and incentivize them. Winters, lacking great incentive, provided great inspiration, and his life AFTER the war was even more inspiring, in my estimation.

A GREAT AMERICAN, through and through, unlike those lousy crapmeisters down in Washington DC who tell us they are OUR leaders! FARK THEM, give me Winters!
 
2010-01-22 08:55:29 PM  

Bass O Matic: At the end of the series or one of the episodes (I can't remember which) Maj Winters is talking about his experiences and whatnot. He recalls his grandson asking him if he was a hero in the war and he responds, "No, but I served in the company of heroes."

Thank you, Sir. And yes, I wept like a child after hearing those words.

/BASEBALL
//FOOTBALL
///TRUCKS
////REAL MEN DON'T CRY
//or something like that


I did too. I can't help myself on that line.
 
2010-01-23 07:16:35 PM  

dittybopper: Japan, however, seemed to basically flounder. I don't know if it's because their experience all through the 1930's against China convinced them it wasn't necessary or important, or if their general attitude bias towards taking the offensive made them biased against SIGINT which is sometimes erroneously viewed as a largely defensive measure.

Whatever the reason, they largely lost the war in the Pacific based upon their lack of SIGINT ability compared to the US. Think of the implications for the conduct of the war had Japan invaded Port Moresby, then Midway Island. That would have largely opened up Pearl Harbor for invasion, or at least further attacks to prevent it's use. We'd have had to largely operate from the West Coast, a daunting task even if you have numerical superiority


They would have lasted longer with better codes and codebreaking, but the US fought the first 2 years of war with one hand behind it's back, as almost all resources besides the submarines and USMC were committed to Europe. Codes or no codes, Japan thought they started the war with 18 months of fuel for the Imperial Navy, and woefully underestimated the consumption rate. Bad codes made them completely defensive by late 1942, but it would have happened by the end of 1943 regardless.

Of course whole books have been written about the ways Japan made bad choices, never addressed certain vulnerabilities, etc. They had nowhere near enough shipping, it took them far too long to train replacement pilots, their army seldom adjusted tactics and stuck with plans far too long, their navy focused on defeating warships instead of shipping, and innumerable other deficiencies that made the whole war against the US a bad idea. Of course, SIGINT deficiencies make any problem worse, because the enemy knows where to hit you.
 
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