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(Some Guy)   China attacked Google. Google counterattacks with Good not Evil. No more censoring of the China domain and may pull out of China entirely   (googleblog.blogspot.com) divider line 325
    More: Interesting, China Attacks, Google, spyware, cyber-attack, Chinese people, mid-December, anti-virus, Gmail  
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21117 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jan 2010 at 8:52 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-01-13 06:44:08 AM
SirEattonHogg: As someone who lives in China... let me say that it is quite amusing to see Google finally tell the government to go fark themselves. Although, I suspect Beijing may also be happy to be rid of google and just have everyone use Baidu (the most popular search engine in China and a Chinese company to boot).

China has really ramped up its assholishness with the internet censorship. One, p0rn was already blocked but it started paying people to act as paid informants to find sites that somehow escaped their dragnet and could be accessed in China (not an easy thing in the first place). Second, they are now proposing to have every website, foreign or domestic, register with the government if they want their site to be accessed in China (goodbye Fark). Lastly, this tiff with Google.

Basically, if you are a foreigner and you use regular internet in China... you will notice how slow it is to access overseas sites. You probably will be surprised that sites which would seem to be neutral politically are blocked - e.g. facebook. Any site where someone could potentially post a Tibet or Taiwan-related video clip is eliminated - so adios Youtube. And not just Youtube... lots of other sites with videos have been blocked, not to mention many foreign pics and images seem to be blocked (which have no contreversial content). For example, on Fark, many of the pics posted by people are simply not there. Along with Twitter and many foreign blog sites are also another area of target.

It has become such a nuisance that a lot of foreigners I know, simply just ended up paying for a VPN service so they can access the internet without all the Chinese bullshiat. It's not like anyone I know has anything to do with Tibet, Taiwan, Falun Gang or human rights. It's such nonsense.


this, a million times. i also live here. its farking annoying, and exactly as this fellow has stated. i have a vpn now too, and i can read what i want, but its pretty slow.
 
2010-01-13 07:15:21 AM
You mean, the Chinese don't own Google? *yet*
 
2010-01-13 07:26:19 AM
Weaver95: wow. i'm amazed Google talked about that in public.

Oh, barf. For anyone who doesn't understand the meaning of the word "disingenuous," RTFA.

/that'll FTFY
 
2010-01-13 07:26:32 AM
LS1Bird: China's long-term sustained growth is going to hang in the balance of their human rights practices.


Highly doubtful. The most that will happen to China because of civil rights abuses would be a(nother) strongly worded letter from the U.N. Or a mildly worded sycophantic letter from a U.S. president or secretary of state, which is purely a PR stunt for the home viewers.

No, what will bring their economic growth to halt is the simple fact that it is unsustainable due to sheer environmental/resource logistics, and many economists and think tanks think so. The fact that they are consuming their own environment like an out of control tarasque in order to fuel the growth machine will be a bit of a problem.

Blocking information on democracy, brainwashing their populous, and making a few religious nuts disappear? Nah, truly, truly my friend, no one cares.
 
2010-01-13 07:38:36 AM
I blame Nixon.
 
2010-01-13 07:57:25 AM
give me doughnuts: Try this little experiment:
Type in "Christianity is ", and look at the suggested topics.
Type in "Buddhism is ", and look at the suggested topics.
Type in "Islam is ", and look at the suggested topics.

Censored?


You do know that in China, not many people use English. Further, in Chinese cities, I have seen churches, Buddha temples, and Muslim mosques. Sure, them have to have a license to operate, but they are still there and in business.
 
2010-01-13 08:06:14 AM
stiletto_the_wise: That said, I've seen the statistics on our own servers myself and they are pretty convincing--there just must be an effective, less blunt tool than country-wide blocking, to cut down on the crap.

Yes but where do you work and what is your company's website for? If you just have an informational website then sure, a little extra traffic isn't a big deal. But if you're trying to build a business around user-generated content, the spammers can actually kill you before you ever get started.

The reason that Fark works is that it has a huge customer base. If you tried to establish a site like fark today, you might have a hundred or so real members, but you'd have a thousand spammers a day. The real members would get frustrated and leave.
 
2010-01-13 08:11:15 AM
678583: anfrind: Sometimes the Google suggestions are just plain weird (new window). There have been plenty of past instances (with Google and other tech companies) where there appeared to be some sort of bigoted, partisan, or overly politically correct censorship going on (anyone remember what a Google search for "miserable failure" used to return?), but it later turned out that the software was working exactly as it was supposed to.

/not saying that Google doesn't censor searches in the U.S.
//just saying that this isn't exactly strong evidence

Those two that I pointed out google has admitted to censoring. Furthermore, the one that the other guy pointed out is censored right now, you can check it. Type in "Christianity is", the very first suggestion is "bullshiat", the second one is "not a religion", and the third one is "a lie". Now, type in "buddhism is", the first one is "not a religion", the second is "wrong", and the third suggestion is "bullshiat". Next, type in "Islam is", and watch your search suggestions completely disappear. I'd say that's pretty strong evidence myself.


Corporations in the USA censor abortion rights websites. Go figure!
 
2010-01-13 08:12:24 AM
bigsteve3OOO: Freedom is all but gone in America and I do not like it.

There are plenty of exits...
 
2010-01-13 08:18:21 AM
Eliminate Russia, China, and certain African countries from the Internet, and most hacking / spam will be gone. If only phpBB had a feature that let you block by country rather than having to ban individual IP's...
 
2010-01-13 08:19:38 AM
The "pull out" method doesn't work.
 
2010-01-13 08:57:42 AM
I'm generally an anti-corporate guy, but I think I understand Google's thoughts in getting into China.

If you believe the following:
1. You can't educate the masses if they don't have books.
2. The nature of the Internet dictates that the censors will always be 10 steps behind the "offending" content. In other words, as one site is discovered and censored, many more crop up.
3. Google's search engines are superior to others in that they can quickly find new or changed sites which contain the searched for content.

Then you have to believe that Google could do good by operating under China's rules. Their search engines allowed the masses to access more information than they would otherwise, although not as much as they would be able to without censorship.
 
2010-01-13 09:01:22 AM
Arcanum: Why would this improve your view of Google? They were totally cool with China destroying the human rights of others. It wasn't until China started the same thing to the rights of Google Security that Google minded.

They made their blood money. They would have happily stayed there forever if they were granted special treatment. They helped the boots crush the people.

Not that I don't use google. It's the best tool for the job 99% of the time. But they suck, and are playing this PR for all its worth. They failed to actually have the principles they are pretending are so valuable now.


What you say is all true. By acting as an enabler for evil by the Chinese government, Google took some serious steps toward the dark side, and they are certainly not out of the woods yet. But this only makes it even more important to encourage steps back in the right direction, even if they are overdue. The slippery slope isn't wrong (despite technically being a fallacy), but it isn't irreversible either; it's all a matter of pointing the slope in the direction you want it to go.
 
2010-01-13 09:11:26 AM
Uchiha_Cycliste: They've already demonstrated that "do no evil" was complete and utter bullshiat. What I hope for them is to start doing good things. Focus on making some money then apply their engineering talents in profitable and ultimately humanity friendly ventures. They can never have back their do no evil title, you get that once... break it it gone forever like a balloon or a cherry. They can still strive for good.

How do you figure that? What has google done that is so farking evil?

And don't say "censoring search results" - that's not "evil" in any conceivable sense of the word.
 
2010-01-13 09:16:19 AM
Cubansaltyballs: wee: Cubansaltyballs: If you've ever seen traffic from a company with a significant web presence, and then drop all traffic from China and look at the difference, it is quite astonishing. If you go further and drop Thailand, India, Pakistan, Russia, and Indonesia, you see 98-99% of unwanted traffic just disappear. In minutes, 98%+ of the spam, SYN scans, and worm traffic just vanishes.

I've noticed this as well, and my company has blocked traffic from India, Russia, China, Korea and Hungary. I might look into dropping the others tomorrow. We only do business in the US anyway...

Yep, if you want to round the rest of the countries that export hackers, look at blocking Poland, Estonia, Turkey, Nigeria, and the Ukraine.

The only downside is that unless you have a strong router, like a Cisco 3845 or 7206, you will end up with memory and throughput problems because the access list gets too large.

For some companies I've worked with, that do gov't work and have classified data, we've ended up placing a huge router upstream to drop anything not from the US, and than sending the remaining 0.005% of that traffic through a few IPS devices and whatnot.


Ummmm, a small firewall such as an ASA5510 would do that for you without registering a blip on the resources. Let routers route and firewalls firewall.
 
2010-01-13 09:17:31 AM
Millennium: . By acting as an enabler for evil by the Chinese government

Oh please. Google's over there providing a service. As a condition of providing that service, they were told they had to block X Y and Z from the search results.

If they did not, they could not operate in China.

What is better for your average Chinese citizen? Operating the best search engine in the world (in b4 google employee) that doesn't show results for a handful of topics, or not operating the engine at all?

China benefits by having Google. Nuff said.
 
2010-01-13 09:26:00 AM
And in about four years, Google will realize what a complete dick move they did against Cyanogen (who was redistributing Google apps that can only run on an Android phone) by rescinding that stupid farking C&D order.
 
2010-01-13 09:31:34 AM
black_knight: And in about four years, Google will realize what a complete dick move they did against Cyanogen (who was redistributing Google apps that can only run on an Android phone) by rescinding that stupid farking C&D order.

Hmm.. I already have you farkied as "WHARRRGOOGL".. wonder why?

Think about it, genius. The pack-in android apps are under a perfectly legitimate copyright. If google does not protect against violations of their copyright (say, for instance, a hacker distributing a firmware package containing them), they can be challenged later down the road for not protecting it.

This is not the fault of Google, this is the fault of shiatty copyright law.

Cyanogen worked around it anyways. The apps are backed up, the custom firmware is loaded, and the backup restored. Google has no issues with the Cyanogen firmware in this way.

Care to garble any other wharr's today, sparky?
 
2010-01-13 09:43:34 AM
I did a google-image-search for "Chinese" and "Pull Out" the second this article was linked to fark.

Sadly it took nearly the whole 15 1/2 hours since then before I was able to return to this thread and make my Boobies. There was a lot of... data... to peruse through first!
 
2010-01-13 10:14:48 AM
SirEattonHogg: It has become such a nuisance that a lot of foreigners I know, simply just ended up paying for a VPN service so they can access the internet without all the Chinese bullshiat. It's not like anyone I know has anything to do with Tibet, Taiwan, Falun Gang or human rights. It's such nonsense.

Interesting. Surely it's possible for some locals to do the same? Or for that matter, have friendly relatives/classmates/whatever living abroad? Just honestly curious.

Japan has kinda the opposite situation, it's all insular and they're paranoid about hackers/spammers/cheaters ("from abroad" and "from China", YMMV but it seems a lot of bad traffic IS from there) so quite a few things like to restrict to Japanese IP only, or require a Japanese ISP account, or a Japanese cellphone number, etc. It can all get highly annoying.

So people living abroad will pay sometimes for a VPN or proxy service so it seems like you're in Japan (doing similar for the US would let you watch all of Hulu, for instance). The stuff newly requiring cellphones though, you're SOL unless you have an old grandfathered account from before they made the requirement.

For the ISP stuff (useful for micropayments too) some of the ISPs have "ID only" services where they'll send payment to your credit card and give you an ID for some tiny fee, without providing you actual ISP service (which you clearly don't need).

jlj3394: 2. The nature of the Internet dictates that the censors will always be 10 steps behind the "offending" content. In other words, as one site is discovered and censored, many more crop up.

I do wonder how they keep up, and how the censoring works in general. I mean, if I went and put up some big manifesto in Chinese about how their system sucks or whatever it is with heaping paragraphs about the wonders of Falun Gong or whatever the hot topic is, then posted links to it in chat rooms, how would they censor it? Someone would find the link, visit, and do it manually? Or is it words, or what?

Related to "if it's words" surely there's heaps of slang in Chinese for talking about things using different words? Certainly on the Japanese internet there is. Use the "wrong" characters for a word on purpose, use the "wrong" characters, flip those around, then make another switch, etc, it gets involved but it's just netspeak there.

I suppose I should... google it :)
 
2010-01-13 10:43:52 AM
smooshie: We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all. We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China.

Woah, kudos to Google if they do this.


This would be a good time to quit if you worked for Google in China. Socialists do not tolerate free speech.
 
2010-01-13 10:44:02 AM
gorgor: Pulling out of China could be dangerous
http://tinyurl.com/ye7s2hy
(copy and paste, NSFW)


Imageshack are on to you now, image has been nerfed. Dammit, I'm sure it was awesome.
 
2010-01-13 10:48:37 AM
Good, it's about damn time Google...
 
2010-01-13 10:51:57 AM
Dear China-STFU
Stop eating everything.
Stop selling us lead paint.
 
2010-01-13 11:07:14 AM
itazurakko [TotalFark]
Interesting. Surely it's possible for some locals to do the same? Or for that matter, have friendly relatives/classmates/whatever living abroad? Just honestly curious.


Yes. Anyone (local Chinese or a foreigner) can use it so long as they either download and install the program abroad (outside China) or have someone from outside China send them the program.

VPN became popular in the past year with the increasing censorship of the authorities. Before one could use proxies... but China has been fairly aggressive last year about shutting down access to proxies as soon as they could find it, which means if a friend referred you to a proxy site, you might be able to surf the net using the proxy for maybe a few weeks at the most.

I have kind of wondered why the Chinese authorities allow VPN. Is it a matter that they simply havent yet figured out how to block VPN access. VPN service providers claim their encyption technology is unbreakable... but I'm not so sure anything is unbreakable judging from the resources that the authorities have to figure out the problem. Or it is also possible the Chinese figure the vast majority of the population have no idea about VPN and/or have no interest in shelling out 50 - 100 bucks to subscribe to such a service, so they just let it go. I'm hoping that is the case, but who knows.

I've probably said too much and as one farker joked above - I've possibly red flagged the interests of the Chinese censorship authorities with my comments. But frankly, having been in China for a few years, internet access has simply become an increasingly frustrating issue.
 
2010-01-13 11:14:43 AM
Maul555: Good, it's about damn time Google...

You do realize that in a week or two it will be back to business as usual?

There is no way they are going to abandon China over privacy concerns.
 
2010-01-13 11:26:12 AM
andrewabc: Maul555: Good, it's about damn time Google...

You do realize that in a week or two it will be back to business as usual?

There is no way they are going to abandon China over privacy concerns.


Something like 25% of the Chinese market = 100% or more of the USA market in dollars and profit. Corporations are in the business of making money. They are immoral...greed is a sin.
 
2010-01-13 11:50:40 AM
andrewabc: Maul555: Good, it's about damn time Google...

You do realize that in a week or two it will be back to business as usual?

There is no way they are going to abandon China over privacy concerns.


I hope this makes the Chinese government reconsider their stance, but probably not. Google needs China much more than China needs Google. And even then, Google has an almost insignificant presence there.

However, Google trying to play this off as if they are some champion of free speech is a joke. Just like 70% of all the Fortune 500 companies, Google is a member of Infragard. That means they allow unlimited access to all of their customer information to the US government without requiring any warrant or even a formal request. Every bit of information you provide Google is handed directly over to the FBI, and every major IT business in the US is expected to do the same. That is the cost of doing business in the US. Of course, China demands companies doing business there do the same thing.....and then some.

If you run a significant IT company in the US, you are expected to share all of the information you collect about your customers and clients with the FBI. Most Americans are unaware of this because the US media is a charter member of the Infragard. However, this isn't a secret program and over 30,000 companies and organizations in the US participate. Still, it isn't public knowledge and the lack of news coverage about this program landed it on the Top 25 Censored stories of 2009 for Project Censored.

Infragard: FBI Deputizes Businesses (new window)

Still, I support Google's stance in China. Monitoring people's activity is one thing, but there is no excuse for censorship.
 
2010-01-13 11:51:38 AM
SirEattonHogg: I have kind of wondered why the Chinese authorities allow VPN.

Maybe keyloggers are so easy to implement that it's worth it for them to keep the connections going as an information source.
 
2010-01-13 11:59:11 AM
SirEattonHogg: I've probably said too much and as one farker joked above - I've possibly red flagged the interests of the Chinese censorship authorities with my comments. But frankly, having been in China for a few years, internet access has simply become an increasingly frustrating issue.

Interesting - thanks.
 
2010-01-13 12:07:56 PM
xuanzhiyouxuan: SirEattonHogg: I have kind of wondered why the Chinese authorities allow VPN.

Maybe keyloggers are so easy to implement that it's worth it for them to keep the connections going as an information source.


That's how the US government works. Rather than block information, they just monitor and gather information. The Echelon system scans all emails and phone calls in the US and flags people that type or say certain keywords. This is what governments do. To expect them to do differently is just naive and stupid. Besides, if you aren't doing anything illegal, you really have nothing to worry about.
 
2010-01-13 12:12:18 PM
Ozaru: xuanzhiyouxuan: SirEattonHogg: I have kind of wondered why the Chinese authorities allow VPN.

Maybe keyloggers are so easy to implement that it's worth it for them to keep the connections going as an information source.

That's how the US government works. Rather than block information, they just monitor and gather information. The Echelon system scans all emails and phone calls in the US and flags people that type or say certain keywords. This is what governments do. To expect them to do differently is just naive and stupid. Besides, if you aren't doing anything illegal, you really have nothing to worry about.


3/10; you almost had a good troll going there, but the "nothing wrong/nothing to worry about" tipped your hand.

Anyway, good thing we can't use some sort of software that somehow made messages and information unreadable to third parties that didn't have some sort of key. Lordy me, that could bring the whole system down!
 
wee [TotalFark]
2010-01-13 12:25:32 PM
Uchiha_Cycliste: They've already demonstrated that "do no evil" was complete and utter bullshiat.

The informal motto is "Don't be evil". Semantics aside, there's a big difference. And it's not bullshiat, it's actually the first thing that occurs to anyone there. It's why google hasn't put any chinese bloggers in jail, like yahoo has (repeatedly), or why they don't hand out non-anonymous search info to the feds, like microsoft has.

But you keep wearing the tinfoil...
 
2010-01-13 12:38:21 PM
Somaticasual: Cubansaltyballs: If you go further and drop Thailand, India, Pakistan, Russia, and Indonesia, you see 98-99% of unwanted traffic just disappear. In minutes, 98%+ of the spam, SYN scans, and worm traffic just vanishes.

I'd be in favor of dropping pakistan, russia, and indonesia, but if you dropped traffic with india our services would be in the crapper pretty quickly.

As a web designer, it would be a welcome move (definitely more business without india) but there are so many businesses that rely on indian firms for outsourcing their development work that it would be devastating financially to do it in one blow.


Maybe instead of outsourcing to India those companies should find some competent people that understand the language and do not piss of said companies clients every time they have to call and work out an issue (usually caused by Indian/English language issues and long distance programming).

It is still unfavorable traffic, cut off those countries, everyone else in the world would be able to relax, spam, trojans, worms and keylogging traffic would go down 80% by not allowing entire countries full of malcontents access to the internet.
 
2010-01-13 12:39:09 PM
NovaeDeArx: Ozaru: xuanzhiyouxuan: SirEattonHogg: I have kind of wondered why the Chinese authorities allow VPN.

Maybe keyloggers are so easy to implement that it's worth it for them to keep the connections going as an information source.

That's how the US government works. Rather than block information, they just monitor and gather information. The Echelon system scans all emails and phone calls in the US and flags people that type or say certain keywords. This is what governments do. To expect them to do differently is just naive and stupid. Besides, if you aren't doing anything illegal, you really have nothing to worry about.

3/10; you almost had a good troll going there, but the "nothing wrong/nothing to worry about" tipped your hand.

Anyway, good thing we can't use some sort of software that somehow made messages and information unreadable to third parties that didn't have some sort of key. Lordy me, that could bring the whole system down!


No. I was really serious. I honestly believe that the government has enough on its hands looking for real threats. Why would they waste their time on people that aren't? This isn't Big Brother or the Secret Police, it is just law enforcement trying to adapt to the Information Age.
 
2010-01-13 12:42:57 PM
soupgoblin:

Maybe instead of outsourcing to India those companies should find some competent people that understand the language and do not piss of said companies clients every time they have to call and work out an issue (usually caused by Indian/English language issues and long distance programming).


Where else are you going to find them? There certainly aren't enough Americans capable of doing the job. In case you haven't heard, there is a serious shortage of IT professionals in the US. Our education system is not getting the job done, and most US workers do not have the skills needed to be sucessful in the Information Age.
 
2010-01-13 12:45:07 PM
Uchiha_Cycliste: Slaxl: Uchiha_Cycliste: gilgamesh23: What, they're going to stop delivering harshly written letters?

(it's censoring, not censuring)

Uchiha_Cycliste: Google's got a bit to do before I view them favorably again, but this is a very good first step.

With the way that Google is reaching into everything now I'm starting to grow a little distrustful of the company and its intentions. This would go a long way towards showing that they remain committed to do no evil.

They've already demonstrated that "do no evil" was complete and utter bullshiat. What I hope for them is to start doing good things. Focus on making some money then apply their engineering talents in profitable and ultimately humanity friendly ventures. They can never have back their do no evil title, you get that once... break it it gone forever like a balloon or a cherry. They can still strive for good.

What have they done that's so evil?

Primarily, censoring their cn domain at all I think was wrong. Was google looking out for what's best for a billion people or bending to those people's masters?
Second, I've had my own run ins with them personally and have to say that I really don't care for the way seek potential employers, versus the way they told us they would. At Cal they bought us pizzas. had a bunch of presentations and generally led us to believe that if you had intelligence, tenacity, and heart you had a reasonable shot at least of an interview. They lied.
I consider the google toolbar to by spyware. That little motherfarker is tricky to rid yourself of and has no buisness being on my machine in the first place. I suspect it's there to relay browsing habits to them from everyone.
When CO$ demanded google not link too a Norweign anti-CO$ page they caved.
Just off of the top of my head. All these things go against their policy of do right by the user against all else.


If you can't get rid of google toolbar I can understand why they didn't hire you. Don't take it out on Google if you ain't got what it takes

A 4 year old can get rid of the toolbar. You can tell a lot about people by all the toolbars they have installed in their browser. Mainly how naive they are.
 
2010-01-13 12:50:10 PM
Ozaru: NovaeDeArx: Ozaru: xuanzhiyouxuan: SirEattonHogg: I have kind of wondered why the Chinese authorities allow VPN.

Maybe keyloggers are so easy to implement that it's worth it for them to keep the connections going as an information source.

That's how the US government works. Rather than block information, they just monitor and gather information. The Echelon system scans all emails and phone calls in the US and flags people that type or say certain keywords. This is what governments do. To expect them to do differently is just naive and stupid. Besides, if you aren't doing anything illegal, you really have nothing to worry about.

3/10; you almost had a good troll going there, but the "nothing wrong/nothing to worry about" tipped your hand.

Anyway, good thing we can't use some sort of software that somehow made messages and information unreadable to third parties that didn't have some sort of key. Lordy me, that could bring the whole system down!

No. I was really serious. I honestly believe that the government has enough on its hands looking for real threats. Why would they waste their time on people that aren't? This isn't Big Brother or the Secret Police, it is just law enforcement trying to adapt to the Information Age.


You know, back when mail and landlines were pretty much the only way to communicate long-distance, there was actually not a system in place to wiretap every domestic communication. There was FISA, which basically created a (rubberstamping) oversight committee. This may or may not have been ideal, but the government actually had to ask somebody, as well as create a paper trail of responsibility.

Nixon tried to get away with going around FISA ('cause of his political shenanigans), and had to resign the freaking Presidency because of it.

Nowadays, you can get away with listening in on any unencrypted (or breakably encrypted) conversation that travels over any capturable line.

This is not an "adaptation", this is an embarrassing overreach of governmental power. If someone wants to wiretap a citizen of our country, they need to take the responsibility of creating a permanent paper trail, not trying to sidestep the spirit of the laws that have been in place for years, and are generally quite applicable to modern technology.
 
2010-01-13 12:54:40 PM
Knucklepopper: Whose email is the NSA currently monitoring?

Since nobody else is posting this for you (p)
 
2010-01-13 01:11:19 PM
Cubansaltyballs: stiletto_the_wise: So much for the "World Wide" web... Seems to me to be a wee bit overkill at best (and xenophobic, at worst) to block entire continents simply to cut down on the V1A6RA spams.

One of the things that makes a site like Fark (for example) great is that we have contributions from all around the globe. Imagine what it would be like if their provider just up and decide that certain countries should just be blocked.

That said, I've seen the statistics on our own servers myself and they are pretty convincing--there just must be an effective, less blunt tool than country-wide blocking, to cut down on the crap.

This whole statement is hilarious because Fark blocks those countries as well.


Just imagine how Craigslist'y this place would look if they didn't.
 
2010-01-13 01:11:41 PM
But pandas are so cuddly!!
 
2010-01-13 01:19:30 PM
It's just saber rattling on Google's part. They are NOT going to leave the Chinese market.

Nothing to see here.

Move along.
 
2010-01-13 01:35:43 PM
Ozaru:
Where else are you going to find them? There certainly aren't enough Americans capable of doing the job. In case you haven't heard, there is a serious shortage of IT professionals in the US. Our education system is not getting the job done, and most US workers do not have the skills needed to be sucessful in the Information Age.


IT professionals? I am pretty sure just about anyone I know is capable of reading a trouble shooting tree over a phone to someone calling for help.

I believe the real problem is nobody here wants to do it for peanuts. In India, they are more than happy to.
 
2010-01-13 01:38:45 PM
eddie van heinous: Knucklepopper: Whose email is the NSA currently monitoring?

Since nobody else is posting this for you (p)



The NSA has a very hard and very important job to do. If someone isn't committing a crime or conspiring to commit a crime, there isn't really much to worry about. AT&T is certainly not unique. Over 30,000 companies and organizations, including 70% of the Fortune 500, provide unrestricted access to all their data to the federal government. Google does it, so it must not be evil.
 
2010-01-13 01:42:30 PM
jackbooty:

IT professionals? I am pretty sure just about anyone I know is capable of reading a trouble shooting tree over a phone to someone calling for help.

I believe the real problem is nobody here wants to do it for peanuts. In India, they are more than happy to.



That's capitalism at work. However, I agree that most of the tech support guys from India need to work on their English skills. Maybe Americans should just learn to speak Hindi.
 
2010-01-13 01:44:11 PM
Ozaru: eddie van heinous: Knucklepopper: Whose email is the NSA currently monitoring?

Since nobody else is posting this for you (p)


The NSA has a very hard and very important job to do. If someone isn't committing a crime or conspiring to commit a crime, there isn't really much to worry about. AT&T is certainly not unique. Over 30,000 companies and organizations, including 70% of the Fortune 500, provide unrestricted access to all their data to the federal government. Google does it, so it must not be evil.


[Citation Needed... BADLY]

Also, Google sanitizes their information, so when your search string of "hot palin snowshoe porn obama -straight +nude" gets turned over, they don't get to link it to you.

Isn't that nice of them?
 
2010-01-13 01:56:50 PM
NovaeDeArx: Ozaru: eddie van heinous: Knucklepopper: Whose email is the NSA currently monitoring?

Since nobody else is posting this for you (p)


The NSA has a very hard and very important job to do. If someone isn't committing a crime or conspiring to commit a crime, there isn't really much to worry about. AT&T is certainly not unique. Over 30,000 companies and organizations, including 70% of the Fortune 500, provide unrestricted access to all their data to the federal government. Google does it, so it must not be evil.

[Citation Needed... BADLY]

Also, Google sanitizes their information, so when your search string of "hot palin snowshoe porn obama -straight +nude" gets turned over, they don't get to link it to you.

Isn't that nice of them?


This story was #3 on the list of the Top 25 censored stories of 2009.
Infragard: FBI Deputizes Businesses (new window)

Really, this program isn't a big deal. It is just information sharing between law enforcement and businesses. Besides, if the businesses didn't offer it up voluntarily, the government would just have someone steal it from the inside or hack in themselves.
 
2010-01-13 02:00:23 PM
Ozaru: This story was #3 on the list of the Top 25 censored stories of 2009.
Infragard: FBI Deputizes Businesses (new window)


Pardon me for not believing an unsourced story from a "whistleblower".

**I** could post something like that on my blog, written the same way, and it would have exactly the same credibility.

That whole site reads like a laundry list of conspiracy theories.
 
2010-01-13 02:10:52 PM
Weaver95: wow. i'm amazed Google talked about that in public.

True that. How are the stocks reacting?
 
2010-01-13 02:14:32 PM
TsukasaK: Ozaru: This story was #3 on the list of the Top 25 censored stories of 2009.
Infragard: FBI Deputizes Businesses (new window)

Pardon me for not believing an unsourced story from a "whistleblower".

**I** could post something like that on my blog, written the same way, and it would have exactly the same credibility.

That whole site reads like a laundry list of conspiracy theories.


Sorry, but Project Censored is run by Sonoma State University and is affiliated with the California State University system. I think it has a bit more credibility than some blog written by a conspiracy theory freak. They carefully document their sources and don't run a story unless the evidence is clearly there. The reason you think it sounds like a laundry list of conspiracy theories is because this information is censored by the mainstream media, which is precisely the reason it is called Project Censored.
 
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