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(Some Guy)   China attacked Google. Google counterattacks with Good not Evil. No more censoring of the China domain and may pull out of China entirely   (googleblog.blogspot.com) divider line 325
    More: Interesting, China Attacks, Google, spyware, cyber-attack, Chinese people, mid-December, anti-virus, Gmail  
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21121 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Jan 2010 at 8:52 PM (4 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-01-13 12:02:00 AM
itazurakko: CaesarSneezy: 够够了

/they've had enough?

AWESOME :)


Ha! Thanks, I was hoping someone would get it!
 
2010-01-13 12:03:13 AM
gorgor: *runs away screaming*

Wow, I provoked that reaction in gorgor rather than vice versa. I'm rather proud of myself now.
 
2010-01-13 12:03:27 AM
gorgor: IrateLeprechaun: Do you want everyone to know how often you've given in and copy-pasted a gorgor link?

*runs away screaming*


aren't you like the only person who can honestly say never?
 
2010-01-13 12:10:05 AM
China's government is just going to say that the hacking was part of a domestic operation for national security, and that it is an internal affair. Google's actions are interference with China's internal affairs, which are expressly verboten in any contract in China.

I was a teacher in China years ago, and the very first paragraph in the "Teacher Obligations" section of the contract read: "Party B (me) will not engage in any activities against China's laws or principles, will not interfere in China's internal affairs, will not engage in activities that will compromise China's national security, and will not engage in activities that will hurt the feelings of the Chinese people."

Every contract in China has this paragraph in it.

The outcome of this will be determined by how much money Google may lose by pulling out of China, and how willing Google is to part with that money. China's government will never allow Google to uncensor search results.

If Google tries to sue in Chinese courts, Google will lose. Period. There is no judge in China stupid enough to rule against the government in a case involving a foreign company.

There's also no impending collapse of China's government. The Communist government is relatively popular among the people and isn't going anywhere.

If you disapprove of China so much, stop buying "Made in China" stuff. The US and many other countries have laws requiring the nation of manufacture to be printed on a product. There is a reason for those laws. One of which is to give the people the power to determine whether or not they want their money to go to governments that do not share their personal views. It is a perfectly legal and effective way to protest.

/foreigner who works for the Chinese Government.
 
2010-01-13 12:10:52 AM
itazurakko: Meaning, in Chinese you need to search things like "Tiananmen incident" which is what the other string I pasted is.

Remember everyone though that in China it's not refered to as the "Tienamen incident"but euphemistically the "June 4th incident". So you'll have better results searching with "六四事件"
 
2010-01-13 12:13:57 AM
Doak: Remember everyone though that in China it's not refered to as the "Tienamen incident"but euphemistically the "June 4th incident". So you'll have better results searching with "六四事件"

No doubt. Still, that was enough I got already... :P
 
2010-01-13 12:14:16 AM
As someone who does not live in China, I find it odd that this is the first time I, and apparently many others here, have seen these pictures of the person after he was smashed by the tank.

I've googled and even image searched the event plenty in the past (.com, as well as .cn) and I never recall seeing these.
 
2010-01-13 12:17:37 AM
Arcanum: colatf: Panty Sniffer: Google has some pretty fine products, but they are in the business of harvesting information. Remember, they are primarily an advertising company. Should I trust them with my phone? No. Should I trust them with my e-mail? Maybe the accounts I don't care about. Should I trust them with my internet searches? Sure, but only because I throw them a random IP addy every time. Should I trust them with my OS? Hell no. Should I store my data in their "cloud"? Hell, hell no.

You use a different IP every time you Google something? Seems like it would be easier to, you know, not be a paranoid dick. You must be searching for some pretty funky things.

Actually, they are on record now saying that if you aren't OK with everyone knowing you did it, you probably shouldn't be doing it. I don't want everyone knowing about the time I was looking into divorce, or when I was looking for rehab, or the kind of porn I enjoy. I don't want people knowing that I had an infection on my asshole or that I check on my old girlfriend once in a while.

Now, I don't do most of that stuff, but it's none of my business if you do. And google is willing to sell that info. If you complain, they say 'you shouldn't have anything to hide, ever'. Kiddie porn or terrorism? Call the cops, Google. Personal stuff? It's not paranoid to obfuscate your identity to google. It just isn't. Calling someone a dick for doing so only proves that YOU'RE the dick. Which is no surprise on the internet.

Now, is bing any better? Of course not. But there are ways to obfuscate your identity that aren't that difficult.


Steady on. I was under the impression that it was more of a pain in the butt to change IPs for every Google search than it apparently is.
 
2010-01-13 12:18:44 AM
Half Witt: I find it odd that this is the first time I, and apparently many others here, have seen these pictures of the person after he was smashed by the tank.

I don't think that's what those pictures were of. If I recall, the reporter who saw it said they guy was simply dragged away by some guys on foot. wiki: tank guy (new window)
 
2010-01-13 12:18:50 AM
Fark Me To Tears: Oh, Boo-F*cking-Hoo! Pull the plug.

Maybe if there were a fiber optic cable we could cut... (walks away whistling)

 
2010-01-13 12:20:40 AM
Stinkyy:
/Still wondering why when I type "Christianity is," in the search box, I get all sorts of auto completes like "bullshiate," "crap" "going to die."
//But when you type "Islam is," you don't get any suggested searches returned.
///White guilt?


"Islam is Bug (new window)


/former Google employee - Boulder, CO Office
//Mountain View, CA was AWESOME!
 
2010-01-13 12:21:12 AM
Half Witt: As someone who does not live in China, I find it odd that this is the first time I, and apparently many others here, have seen these pictures of the person after he was smashed by the tank.

I've googled and even image searched the event plenty in the past (.com, as well as .cn) and I never recall seeing these.


Those pictures of some blurry squished person looking thing might be authentic, but they are certainly not the famous 'tank guy'. He was whisked away by an unknown person (friend or cop) in plain clothes. No one has been able to track down his identity. There was an amazing piece on Frontline about it for the 20 yr. anniversary...
 
2010-01-13 12:28:28 AM
IrateLeprechaun: Half Witt: I find it odd that this is the first time I, and apparently many others here, have seen these pictures of the person after he was smashed by the tank.

I don't think that's what those pictures were of. If I recall, the reporter who saw it said they guy was simply dragged away by some guys on foot. wiki: tank guy (new window)


Thanks for the link. I read it and it seems like there is no real certainty on what his fate was, with even a claim that he might be living outside the country now.

Beyond the question of him, two pictures that now appear show what seem to be two different people who were ran over. One is of a guy with smashed and mangled legs and the other is of a blob of clothing and body parts, with tank tracks of blood leading from it.

Disturbing all the same, assuming these are real pictures and from this event, or even some other.
 
2010-01-13 12:28:35 AM
IrateLeprechaun: I don't think that's what those pictures were of. If I recall, the reporter who saw it said they guy was simply dragged away by some guys on foot. wiki: tank guy (new window)

I wasn't about to click in there and read further, but I don't think those are of that particular guy either, for the reason you give. The nasty one that just says "historical wounds" basically, no telling what it is but I'm not clickin'. But some bloody images there have labels from 6/4 incident, still, not clickin'.

Thing is though, often in the US it seemed the meme was that if you searched for Tiananmen (incident, 6/4 incident etc, NOT just the place name) on google.cn you wouldn't see references to the incident, that it was whitewashed out.

But clearly there are images of that iconic guy making the stand off, one even saying "dedicated to freedom" in English and Chinese on it (from a site in Taiwan no less). Plus pics of the crowds at that time, etc.

So, part of my wonder is, just HOW censored that stuff was, anyway. Sometimes rumors of just how censored stuff is can overtake the reality. Let's just say, it happens in discussion of other countries too where it's clearly bogus, so I wonder just how much was blocked out to start with, particularly given that the "some results not shown" bit is still displaying on the bottom of the pages.

/not denying stuff was blocked, not that I would really know
//but wondering HOW much stuff was generally blocked off
///also wondering if I'm not getting the real deal since I'm not IN China, but I dunno exactly what google was doing so... who knows
 
2010-01-13 12:29:35 AM
Thanks to you too ironoctopus, I posted before seeing your reply.
 
2010-01-13 12:32:17 AM
Neato.

http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=tiananmen+square+protest&btnG=Google+%E6 % 90%9C%E7%B4%A2&aq=f&oq=
 
2010-01-13 12:33:03 AM
itazurakko,

one thing I can say from personal experience is the last time I google.cn searched several spelling versions, which was probably about a year ago, the only results were of the touristy variety, smiling faces, flower gardens, etc.

The results we are seeing now is something new to me.
 
2010-01-13 12:35:30 AM
Half Witt: Disturbing all the same, assuming these are real pictures and from this event, or even some other.

itazurakko: some bloody images there have labels from 6/4 incident, still, not clickin'.

Agree, hell no. Everything I've ever heard is that no small number of protesters met grisly fates during the crackdown, so it's perfectly plausible that the pictures are real. That's all I want to know, no need to see the full-sized versions.
 
2010-01-13 12:35:44 AM
Google "Falun Gong torture"

Yep, will NEVER allow an unrestricted google search.

Also, I find this fascinating that we are actually turning a corner in our global development whereby corporations can replace armies in fighting for global policy.

This is a small step toward that end, but global corporations are on their way to becoming the new nations of policy. Here in America they already control quite a bit through lobbyists.

China's long-term sustained growth is going to hang in the balance of their human rights practices.
 
2010-01-13 12:38:59 AM
itazurakko: IrateLeprechaun: I don't think that's what those pictures were of. If I recall, the reporter who saw it said they guy was simply dragged away by some guys on foot. wiki: tank guy (new window)

I wasn't about to click in there and read further, but I don't think those are of that particular guy either, for the reason you give. The nasty one that just says "historical wounds" basically, no telling what it is but I'm not clickin'. But some bloody images there have labels from 6/4 incident, still, not clickin'.

Thing is though, often in the US it seemed the meme was that if you searched for Tiananmen (incident, 6/4 incident etc, NOT just the place name) on google.cn you wouldn't see references to the incident, that it was whitewashed out.

But clearly there are images of that iconic guy making the stand off, one even saying "dedicated to freedom" in English and Chinese on it (from a site in Taiwan no less). Plus pics of the crowds at that time, etc.

So, part of my wonder is, just HOW censored that stuff was, anyway. Sometimes rumors of just how censored stuff is can overtake the reality. Let's just say, it happens in discussion of other countries too where it's clearly bogus, so I wonder just how much was blocked out to start with, particularly given that the "some results not shown" bit is still displaying on the bottom of the pages.

/not denying stuff was blocked, not that I would really know
//but wondering HOW much stuff was generally blocked off
///also wondering if I'm not getting the real deal since I'm not IN China, but I dunno exactly what google was doing so... who knows


you know what's interesting, I changed the search to use all simplified characters (天安门事件)and it brings up a whole new set of non-violent images. I think those grisly ones at the beginning are linked to Taiwan or something. Perhaps China has a bit of a paradox with the One China policy :) I do remember that searching it in China gave nothing but tourist results.
 
2010-01-13 12:44:37 AM
Cubansaltyballs: Lydia_C: Cubansaltyballs: wee: Cubansaltyballs: If you've ever seen traffic from a company with a significant web presence, and then drop all traffic from China and look at the difference, it is quite astonishing. If you go further and drop Thailand, India, Pakistan, Russia, and Indonesia, you see 98-99% of unwanted traffic just disappear. In minutes, 98%+ of the spam, SYN scans, and worm traffic just vanishes.

I've noticed this as well, and my company has blocked traffic from India, Russia, China, Korea and Hungary. I might look into dropping the others tomorrow. We only do business in the US anyway...

Yep, if you want to round the rest of the countries that export hackers, look at blocking Poland, Estonia, Turkey, Nigeria, and the Ukraine.

Can we add the Phillippines to the list? I administer a message board and I'd swear half the spammers signing up these days are from there (people, not bots, because we make registrants jump through hoops and confirm via email for accounts).

Just block all of Asia except Japan and your life will be better.

If I remember correctly people already have all the lists and stuff ready to go to toss into Apache, IPTables, or most Cisco devices.


So much for the "World Wide" web... Seems to me to be a wee bit overkill at best (and xenophobic, at worst) to block entire continents simply to cut down on the V1A6RA spams.

One of the things that makes a site like Fark (for example) great is that we have contributions from all around the globe. Imagine what it would be like if their provider just up and decide that certain countries should just be blocked.

That said, I've seen the statistics on our own servers myself and they are pretty convincing--there just must be an effective, less blunt tool than country-wide blocking, to cut down on the crap.
 
2010-01-13 12:46:24 AM
Half Witt: itazurakko,

one thing I can say from personal experience is the last time I google.cn searched several spelling versions, which was probably about a year ago, the only results were of the touristy variety, smiling faces, flower gardens, etc.

The results we are seeing now is something new to me.


Interesting. I just wonder when officially Google would be turning the filter off, surely they didn't just do it already?

ironoctopus: you know what's interesting, I changed the search to use all simplified characters (天安门事件)and it brings up a whole new set of non-violent images. I think those grisly ones at the beginning are linked to Taiwan or something. Perhaps China has a bit of a paradox with the One China policy :) I do remember that searching it in China gave nothing but tourist results.

Interesting, I see that too now. I put in 六四事件 too and there's references to the incident (surprising I guess) yet not so many and not those bloody things.
 
2010-01-13 12:53:07 AM
Somaticasual: Cubansaltyballs: If you go further and drop Thailand, India, Pakistan, Russia, and Indonesia, you see 98-99% of unwanted traffic just disappear. In minutes, 98%+ of the spam, SYN scans, and worm traffic just vanishes.

I'd be in favor of dropping pakistan, russia, and indonesia, but if you dropped traffic with india our services would be in the crapper pretty quickly.

As a web designer, it would be a welcome move (definitely more business without india) but there are so many businesses that rely on indian firms for outsourcing their development work that it would be devastating financially to do it in one blow.


Especially since, in my experience as a freelancer cleaning up others' code and as QA staff, India web developers SUCK!

Can't code worth shiat and their Engladeshi is complete crap for SEO. Goddamn diploma mills.
 
2010-01-13 12:54:48 AM
remember that african kid who built the windmill, and his interview on the daily show, how he learned of google later? i wonder what his opinion on the morality of google working w/ china and acquiescing to enough censorship to be permitted to operate there is.
 
2010-01-13 12:55:36 AM
stiletto_the_wise: So much for the "World Wide" web... Seems to me to be a wee bit overkill at best (and xenophobic, at worst) to block entire continents simply to cut down on the V1A6RA spams.

One of the things that makes a site like Fark (for example) great is that we have contributions from all around the globe. Imagine what it would be like if their provider just up and decide that certain countries should just be blocked.

That said, I've seen the statistics on our own servers myself and they are pretty convincing--there just must be an effective, less blunt tool than country-wide blocking, to cut down on the crap.


This whole statement is hilarious because Fark blocks those countries as well.
 
2010-01-13 01:06:34 AM
Something else maybe just curiously weird - I search on 法論功 (Falun Gong, in non-simplified) and get one set of results, with (at least on the first page of images) NO simplified version in the little captions under the pics showing the hit. Switching to web, there's oodles of pages, but again, all non-simplified.

But then if I search on 議論 ("discussion", purely as a way to get the computer to cough up the simplified characters 议论 (same thing in simplified - I can't type simplified on my computer easily so I wanted to grab that last one) the search results DO contain all types of simplified, meaning, the search engine is happy to understand that 議論 and 议论 are the same.

So cut'n'paste, I search on 法论功 (Falun Gong, in simplified) and I get results, but DIFFERENT results than for non-simplified. It's like it keeps the terms separated, or something. Non-simplified only returns one page, too. Anyway, both have the "some entries not returned" warning on the bottom.

My regular google (Japanese version) returns tons of image and web hits for non-simplified, but of course it prioritizes Japanese language so it's not really a good comparison.

/wonder how many lists I'm getting on, searching for all these things? :D
 
2010-01-13 01:10:53 AM
I say Google does it anyway because why have China getting all up in our internets and using our power to search for celebrities doing awkward things.

China is such a weird place. Sigh.
I would be willing to slight the whole country I guess to take em down a peg or two lol.
 
2010-01-13 01:11:08 AM
I would not suggest attacking Google, even if you're China. If you're actually God, that's fine, you get a pass, but don't attack Google otherwise.

If ever in the history of the world there is an example of "I'm smarter than you", that would be Google.
 
2010-01-13 01:11:38 AM
itazurakko: Something else maybe just curiously weird - I search on 法論功 (Falun Gong, in non-simplified) and get one set of results, with (at least on the first page of images) NO simplified version in the little captions under the pics showing the hit. Switching to web, there's oodles of pages, but again, all non-simplified.

But then if I search on 議論 ("discussion", purely as a way to get the computer to cough up the simplified characters 议论 (same thing in simplified - I can't type simplified on my computer easily so I wanted to grab that last one) the search results DO contain all types of simplified, meaning, the search engine is happy to understand that 議論 and 议论 are the same.

So cut'n'paste, I search on 法论功 (Falun Gong, in simplified) and I get results, but DIFFERENT results than for non-simplified. It's like it keeps the terms separated, or something. Non-simplified only returns one page, too. Anyway, both have the "some entries not returned" warning on the bottom.

My regular google (Japanese version) returns tons of image and web hits for non-simplified, but of course it prioritizes Japanese language so it's not really a good comparison.

/wonder how many lists I'm getting on, searching for all these things? :D


I'm SURE you are already categorized as a Farker, and get a pass.
 
2010-01-13 01:14:28 AM
Google has more chutzpa than anyone in our government.
 
2010-01-13 01:25:20 AM
Good for Google. To tell the truth, my ardent faith in Google and "do no evil" was beginning to slide. I must now do penance.
 
2010-01-13 01:34:47 AM
Uchiha_Cycliste: I consider the google toolbar to by spyware. That little motherfarker is tricky to rid yourself of and has no buisness being on my machine in the first place. I suspect it's there to relay browsing habits to them from everyone.

Yes. If you have the "page rank" display feature on, they record your browsing on non-google sites, which they use for internal analytics. However, if you disable that specific feature, the toolbar doesn't send any data back.

There's been some speculation that the Google Analytics product is used similarly, but no confirmation that I'm aware of.
 
2010-01-13 01:35:46 AM
Good for you guys, Google! Kudos!

Honestly, this makes me want to go out and buy an android phone. If all corporate officers displayed this level of social responsbility, rationality, and honour, the world would be a better place.

I only hope our Chinese brothers and sisters can get their current government in check soon.
 
2010-01-13 01:44:01 AM
Uchiha_Cycliste: Slaxl: Uchiha_Cycliste: gilgamesh23: What, they're going to stop delivering harshly written letters?

(it's censoring, not censuring)

Uchiha_Cycliste: Google's got a bit to do before I view them favorably again, but this is a very good first step.

With the way that Google is reaching into everything now I'm starting to grow a little distrustful of the company and its intentions. This would go a long way towards showing that they remain committed to do no evil.

They've already demonstrated that "do no evil" was complete and utter bullshiat. What I hope for them is to start doing good things. Focus on making some money then apply their engineering talents in profitable and ultimately humanity friendly ventures. They can never have back their do no evil title, you get that once... break it it gone forever like a balloon or a cherry. They can still strive for good.

What have they done that's so evil?

Primarily, censoring their cn domain at all I think was wrong. Was google looking out for what's best for a billion people or bending to those people's masters?
Second, I've had my own run ins with them personally and have to say that I really don't care for the way seek potential employers, versus the way they told us they would. At Cal they bought us pizzas. had a bunch of presentations and generally led us to believe that if you had intelligence, tenacity, and heart you had a reasonable shot at least of an interview. They lied.
I consider the google toolbar to by spyware. That little motherfarker is tricky to rid yourself of and has no buisness being on my machine in the first place. I suspect it's there to relay browsing habits to them from everyone.
When CO$ demanded google not link too a Norweign anti-CO$ page they caved.
Just off of the top of my head. All these things go against their policy of do right by the user against all else.


So you're bitter that you didn't get a job. I figured... that explains a lot.
 
2010-01-13 01:46:17 AM
xuanzhiyouxuan: Panty Sniffer: but only because I throw them a random IP addy every time.

That's probably not nearly enough. Shouldn't you at least be randomizing your MAC address and using proxies as well?


And use Guerrilla Mail
 
2010-01-13 01:50:39 AM
dave2198: So you're bitter that you didn't get a job. I figured... that explains a lot.

No, I'm not, not at all. I think I may have even literally said such 5 times in this thread... go look at other posts to makes sense of things, or continue spouting off like a hoser. I suspect that's the limits of your abilities.
 
2010-01-13 01:52:06 AM
dave2198: So you're bitter that you didn't get a job. I figured... that explains a lot.

Sounds like he didn't even make it past the "don't shred my resume, bro" stage.
 
2010-01-13 02:06:52 AM
WhiteWidow: Google has more chutzpa than anyone in our government.

Google can afford to lose China as a business partner. The government can't afford to do that. It owes China too much money.
 
2010-01-13 02:44:55 AM
Burn98: Google can afford to lose China as a business partner. The government can't afford to do that. It owes China too much money.

When you owe the bank more than you can pay, the bank owns you. When you owe the bank more than the bank can lose, you own the bank.
 
2010-01-13 03:03:53 AM
Uchiha_Cycliste: dave2198: So you're bitter that you didn't get a job. I figured... that explains a lot.

No, I'm not, not at all. I think I may have even literally said such 5 times in this thread... go look at other posts to makes sense of things, or continue spouting off like a hoser. I suspect that's the limits of your abilities.


You doth protest too much.
 
2010-01-13 03:18:51 AM
This is what I like about Google.
They've got the stones to do something even nations don't have.

It's about time someone stood up and told them that they can't have their cake and eat it too. If you want to be a part of the world, your people are part of the world too.
 
2010-01-13 03:36:22 AM
thelordofcheese: Somaticasual: Cubansaltyballs: If you go further and drop Thailand, India, Pakistan, Russia, and Indonesia, you see 98-99% of unwanted traffic just disappear. In minutes, 98%+ of the spam, SYN scans, and worm traffic just vanishes.

I'd be in favor of dropping pakistan, russia, and indonesia, but if you dropped traffic with india our services would be in the crapper pretty quickly.

As a web designer, it would be a welcome move (definitely more business without india) but there are so many businesses that rely on indian firms for outsourcing their development work that it would be devastating financially to do it in one blow.

Especially since, in my experience as a freelancer cleaning up others' code and as QA staff, India web developers SUCK!

Can't code worth shiat and their Engladeshi is complete crap for SEO. Goddamn diploma mills.


No argument there. The language differences are one thing (since that's at least understandable), but the coding standards are pretty bad for most of the cut-rate outsource firms. As for design, there are some definite aesthetic differences there too. I suppose businesses get what they pay for, though..
 
2010-01-13 03:50:01 AM
wee: China, whether you like it or not, is a sovereign nation, and can make its own laws. If you want to do business in China, then you have to obey those laws. One of them says that they have a list of sites that they don't want their citizens to see. Abhorrent, sure, but if you want to do business in their country, that's just one of the many laws you need to obey. So put that another way: Is Google doing right by the users in delivering them some good results, or would the Chinese internet population be better off with only Baidu, with zero access to google.cn?

Personally I'd like to see them actively make their website as hard as possible for China to filter, while keeping their assets outside of China, and thus not liable. I personally think the a modern development of the Radio Free Asia initiative would be to create a similar service, simply for the web.

/pipe dream I know
 
2010-01-13 04:12:02 AM
Lots of people seem to have some serious butthurt about Google censoring results for the Chinese government. IMHO, assisting in the distribution of what information they can is worth acquiescing to the government's requirements. I might think otherwise, but something as simple as Google notifying the user that their search results were censored keeps my faith. (Realistically, that's about all they could do within the law whole operating there, and it's pretty huge to me... They at least give people an idea what kinds of things the government is hiding.)

China took it too far by attempting to hack Google's services and use the data against human rights protestors. Google essentially gave them a big middle finger. They'll either deliver uncensored information or stop operating there.

As far as corporations go, Google's behaviour is certainly commendable. As far as absolute morals go, their behaviour is still quite acceptable to me. They did participate in censorship but also made steps in weakening it (notifying of blocked results, easier access to other information). They did not participate, and at a cost to them, refuse to be unintentionally complicit to other human rights violations and more serious oppression - essentially removing themselves when the scales have tipped and the bit of benefit they provided is no longer worth the drawbacks.

And all in all, you know what? Regardless of whether they're perfect, and regardless of whether their original action was completely moral by your standards, they are making and have made a much greater effort towards doing no evil than a very significant majority of corporations out there.

Baby steps, people. Just getting everyone else up to their level would certainly be a step in the right direction. Then we can worry about them being perfect.

Google: Thank you. Your decision has brought me a joy you can't imagine and restored a little bit of my sharply declining faith in the human race.
 
2010-01-13 04:32:09 AM
As someone who lives in China... let me say that it is quite amusing to see Google finally tell the government to go fark themselves. Although, I suspect Beijing may also be happy to be rid of google and just have everyone use Baidu (the most popular search engine in China and a Chinese company to boot).

China has really ramped up its assholishness with the internet censorship. One, p0rn was already blocked but it started paying people to act as paid informants to find sites that somehow escaped their dragnet and could be accessed in China (not an easy thing in the first place). Second, they are now proposing to have every website, foreign or domestic, register with the government if they want their site to be accessed in China (goodbye Fark). Lastly, this tiff with Google.

Basically, if you are a foreigner and you use regular internet in China... you will notice how slow it is to access overseas sites. You probably will be surprised that sites which would seem to be neutral politically are blocked - e.g. facebook. Any site where someone could potentially post a Tibet or Taiwan-related video clip is eliminated - so adios Youtube. And not just Youtube... lots of other sites with videos have been blocked, not to mention many foreign pics and images seem to be blocked (which have no contreversial content). For example, on Fark, many of the pics posted by people are simply not there. Along with Twitter and many foreign blog sites are also another area of target.

It has become such a nuisance that a lot of foreigners I know, simply just ended up paying for a VPN service so they can access the internet without all the Chinese bullshiat. It's not like anyone I know has anything to do with Tibet, Taiwan, Falun Gang or human rights. It's such nonsense.
 
2010-01-13 05:14:20 AM
Uchiha_Cycliste: When CO$ demanded google not link too a Norweign anti-CO$ page they caved.

You mean Operation Clambake?
They're currently the fifth result on a search for "scientology".

Google never removed the site entirely from searches, only specific pages with copyrighted material, in what they thought was accordance with law.
It didn't last long either, and the whole thing prompted Google to be an important contributer to Chilling Effects, so I think they've redeemed themselves on that point a long time ago.

And not giving you an interview after saying you had a reasonable shot makes them evil? Good lord.
 
2010-01-13 06:10:09 AM
Ha, Google got pwnd by a 14 year old Chinese kid.

They suck. Nice security there Lou!
 
2010-01-13 06:16:32 AM
stiletto_the_wise: So much for the "World Wide" web... Seems to me to be a wee bit overkill at best (and xenophobic, at worst) to block entire continents simply to cut down on the V1A6RA spams.


Xenophobic? It's about hackers and spam. (Maybe it will calm your worries about xenophobia to realize that fully half of the blocked domains are predominantly pale white skinned caucasians that, as a commonality, generally speak English from birth.)

What truly amuses me though is that, in a thread about nationwide Chinese government censorship to actual public web-content, the only thing that bothers you is some evil western private companies block spam and network attacks on private/commercial loops.

Your concern for global freedom is quite touching. (transparent as hell)
 
2010-01-13 06:30:54 AM
"We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn"

You shouldn't have done that in the first place, dickheads.
 
2010-01-13 06:32:52 AM
SirEattonHogg: As someone who lives in China... let me say that it is quite amusing to see Google finally tell the government to go fark themselves. Although, I suspect Beijing may also be happy to be rid of google and just have everyone use Baidu (the most popular search engine in China and a Chinese company to boot).

China has really ramped up its assholishness with the internet censorship. One, p0rn was already blocked but it started paying people to act as paid informants to find sites that somehow escaped their dragnet and could be accessed in China (not an easy thing in the first place). Second, they are now proposing to have every website, foreign or domestic, register with the government if they want their site to be accessed in China (goodbye Fark). Lastly, this tiff with Google.

Basically, if you are a foreigner and you use regular internet in China... you will notice how slow it is to access overseas sites. You probably will be surprised that sites which would seem to be neutral politically are blocked - e.g. facebook. Any site where someone could potentially post a Tibet or Taiwan-related video clip is eliminated - so adios Youtube. And not just Youtube... lots of other sites with videos have been blocked, not to mention many foreign pics and images seem to be blocked (which have no contreversial content). For example, on Fark, many of the pics posted by people are simply not there. Along with Twitter and many foreign blog sites are also another area of target.

It has become such a nuisance that a lot of foreigners I know, simply just ended up paying for a VPN service so they can access the internet without all the Chinese bullshiat. It's not like anyone I know has anything to do with Tibet, Taiwan, Falun Gang or human rights. It's such nonsense.


I hope you realize this very post just tripped about 5000 flags in the Beijing internet Gestapo bureau.
 
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